Why do keep people keep praising Dark Souls 3 when it's obviously inferior?
It is not my fault that you just run straight to the next areas and omit all exploration.
1. DSI: Had no warping between areas until late game. It is not that long, not to mention it was probably your first souls game and so took more to complete. Masterpiece.
2.DSII: Uninspired piece of shit with vast linear levels.
3.DSIII: Everything is densely packed and well connected. Masterpiece.
>>337497050
>length as a measure of game quality
>>337498149
>Implying it isn't
>>337497050
You mad that DaS2 sucks? LOL
>>337498809
Why is it? Value for money? Peace Walker is longer than the first 3 Metal Gear games, does that mean it's better?
>>337498032
your opinion and taste is garbage
Every souls game, with the exception of the first half of DaS, is a linear shit show.
>>337497050
Took me 81 hours to beat it the first time
>>337499183
Bloodborne is openworld as fuck.
First run of Dark Souls took me 80 hours
Every subsequent run of every game afterwards has been 10-15
>>337499183
What the fuck? The second half of the game was the non-linear part
It literally has to be better than 2
>>337497050
>The amount of time spent in a game determines how good it is.
Do you judge a book by its length too, you stupid fuck?
>>337497050
Inferior to what? If Dark Souls 2, then your opinion is immediately disregarded.
>>337497050
the dlc hasn't come out yet dip shit
>>337497050
I think it's a combination of you're comparing Preparing to Die Edition to the DaS3 base game, people are now used to Souls shit and are reacting accordingly, and the fact that Dark Souls 2 features a lot of mob shit that is just time consuming. I did notice that Dark Souls 3 seemed to not take as along, but again I'd chalk that up to more of I've played every souls game so I know what to expect than it is actual game content.
However I could be wrong, maybe DaS3 does have lesser content than DaS1, doesn't make it bad.It's still better than DaS2 and SotFS
Dark Souls 3 is the only Dark Souls game I can call good without a caveat.
Puts it right next to Demon's and Bloodborne.
DaS1 has the better design but is so rushed and likely because they spend so much money on the early level design the game falls apart horribly later.
I really don't give a fuck.
also those numbers are so wrong.
They all take like 20-30 hours to beat the main story.
>>337500312
DaS3 alone has so many more better bosses than das1.
Only Sif and O&S would be good enough to fit into das3.
Rest would be shit and only count as minibosses.
>>337497050
That site is horrendous for time.
It's not even funny how bad they are at it, I don't understand who could be putting in these numbers if it's to be taken seriously.
>>337500362
>They all take like 20-30 hours to beat the main story.
Not if you play like me and are stuck at the goddamn Bell Gargoyles.
>>337501014
Okay that is fair enough but the das3 bosses are harder.
That pic is incredibly inaccurate. DS2 is obviously the longest game in the series, both main game and definitely DLC as well.
people know how to play it already
>>337501071
This.
DaS2 is the longest then comes DaS3 and then DaS1 not by much but that difference is pure bullshit.
>>337497050
>DS1 takes longer to beat than 2
In what universe?
>>337501060
I disagree, the regular enemies are much harder in DaS3 than in any other Souls games, but the bosses are generally easier aside from a few notable exceptions (Nameless King, Pontiff)
>>337501241
The early bosses maybe but even with the earliest "hard" boss abyss watchers are pretty hard compared to almost all bosses in das1.
DS2 > DS3 = DS1.
FACT.
>>337501229
>first DS
>most people who got into DS2 played DS1 first and so know the basics
And so you go faster through more content.
>>337501373
BB > DaS3 > DeS > DaS1 >>> DaS2
FACT
>>337497050
The same reason your mother praises you
>>337501396
It's still a longer game, especially if you include the dlc.
>>337497050
Are you autistic?
>>337501373
>>337501440
DeS is extremely overrated.
There, I said it.
>>337497050
?
I'm 60 hours in and I haven't finished the game yet. I am now at Lothric Prince.
Am I just shit or is that image a lie?
>>337501396
Even after mastering the gameplay, DS2 takes longer to beat. It never fucking ends, it has like 41 bosses and 3 DLC
>>337501440
>pretending something is a fact when it clearly isn't
>>337501653
It is. If das1 wouldn't have been so rushed I would definitely rate it over des.
But DeS did so many things right on the first go. It laid the foundations for almost everything that made the other souls games good.
You can shit all over it now if you want but for its time it did so many things right that I don't feel like my rating isn't fair.
>>337501740
It is clearly a fact. Go on and dispute it if you want. I can back all the ratings up.
>>337501373
This is why game reviews/time to beat is completely pointless and should fuck off
>>337501828
>scaling ratings based on when the devs came out
by that logic you might as well just go
DeS>DS1>DS2>BB>DS3
>>337499497
This.
DaS>DaS3=BB>DeS>DaS2
Wow that sure was difficult
>Dark Souls 1
>50 hours
More like 30.
>>337501985
No even in a vacuum I stand by these ratings.
DeS is better as a gesamtkunstwerk than das1.
Anyone putting the first dark souls 1 as number one in their list doesn't care about a complete game. And likely has only played to Ornstein and Smough and gave up.
>>337502097
What was unfinished about DS1, exactly? Are you one of those fags who's eternally butthurt about Lost Izalith?
>>337502021
>Wow that sure was difficult
Apparently it was, you got your signs backwards
>>337502097
>gesamtkunstwerk
Videospiele sind keine Kunst.
>>337501352
The Gargoyles were a harsher difficulty spike in DaS than Watchers in DaS3, and they came earlier. A lot of late-game bosses in DaS3 can be defeated by just chugging and R1-spamming. There are some difficult ones, and generally I'd say that the bosses are pretty great, but they're generally easier than even Lothric Knights.
Greatshield knights are the true bosses of DaS3.
>>337502241
>What was unfinished about DS1
Almost all of it.
I would go as far and say that das1 needed another year of development time.
Izalith is the most glaring one but it goes so much deeper.
Do you really want a list.
>>337502510
At least they remembered to make sure all the stats work. Like poise.
>>337497050
In what world did DS1 take 50 hours to complete main story......
>>337502510
>do you really want a list
Well, I already asked you what was unfinished, so obviously I do. Also, what do you think was unfinished about Lost Izalith?
>>337497050
Fuck off DaS2 is fucking shit
>>337502620
If this is your first Souls game (which it was for many), and you spend a lot of time exploring, and co-oping, getting lost, and you die a lot, then I can imagine it. I've talked with casuals who hang around in the same zone for 6-8 hours co-oping to get more souls for whatever dumbshit inefficient build they're working on.
Your experience and the experience of the average casual normie gamer aren't the same.
>>337499268
I love bloodborne but that's just bullshit, most of the maps are a straight line with some divergent forks and occasional other paths
It's good level design but let's not call it open world
>>337497050
This list is retarded, DaS1 is in no way longer than DaS2 and it's at best as long as DaS3
>>337502642
Not him but if you think LI is finished you are retarded. You really think all those randomly placed dragon ass unfinished enemies are meant to be there?
>>337503061
It's true that everything's a narrow hallway in BB. Even large open areas are basically multiple rows of narrow hallways separated by low walls and obstacles.
>>337502793
>there are people this delusional
>>337502097
>DeS
>gesamtkunstwerk
That would be both King's Field and Shadow Tower, retard.
Also, DeS is unfinished as it is missing a whole archstone.
>>337503310
>have literally talked to people who took that long
>delusional
>>337503258
The dragon asses were obviously made to discourage players from traveling in the lava, because it's fucking lava. If it wasn't them it would have been another enemy.
>>337498032
DSII had way more content than 3
>>337502642
Okay let me mentally go through the game and all the small things they should've fixed and polished
First thing in character creation.
Classes are not balanced at all.
Resistance is a useless stat.
The master's key is by far the best starting gift.
First area is largely okay like all tutorial areas. Except it teaches you about different fog gates and that is never used again.
First boss is just a retread of demon's souls tutorial also the idea of a special challenge is great for a special reward but it is just tedious and not hard.
Firelink Shrine. You find your first covenant here. Covenants are shit in das1. Especially way of white is useless.
Undead Burg is one of my favorite levels so I don't have much to complain about it. So lets go to the mechanics here. The enemies are too slow. Almost all of them especially the black knight are way too easy if you just run around and backstab them. There is no punishment for dying and ending up in hollow form. Also no real incentive to stay in human form. Even demon's did that better.
Taurus is meh as a boss fight and shit once he becomes a normal later. If you go into havel's tower at day you come out at night and back you are at day again.
Do I need to go on?
I love Dark souls 1. It is one of my favorite games. But you can't deny it is rushed and needed a lot more work.
>>337503432
I don't you think you understand the word gesamtkunstwerk. It just means the piece of media as a whole. It says nothing about the quality.
Your post makes no sense.
Huh, I always had a feeling ds3 was a lot shorter than the other games
>>337503574
A lot of those "flaws" are entirely intentional by the devs, and just a style of the game. I agree with your points about resistance and hollowing though.
>>337503918
Which flaw would you say is intentional?
I tried to be really objective here.
>>337503685
Good thing I didn't say anything about the quality. Not seeing the why would you call Demon's Souls that though. It's not a complete game.
>>337498809
>implying phantom pain is good game because it has 48 chapters
>>337497050
Roll roll attack
>>337504419
Demon's feels complete. I am not sure what you are talking about. The broken archstone maybe?
All the areas are polished. It has all the content it needs. What in particular is unfinished about demon's?
>>337504031
classes aren't necessarily made to be balanced to begin with. in fact, i'd say that unbalance is important in the souls games.
master's key being the best starting gift was the "lucky guess" for first time players
first boss is decent as a tutorial since it both forces players to look at their surroundings, and teaches you to plunge attack.
makes sense to discover the most useless covenant first
undead burg is good since it forces players to fight different types of enemies like shield guys, TEACHES you to backstab, and fight multiple enemies at once.
Taurus is a very good boss, since again it forces players to observe their surroundings and fight in close quarters.
>>337504650
>classes aren't necessarily made to be balanced to begin with. in fact, i'd say that unbalance is important in the souls games.
Even stat wise?
Mathematically they are not balanced is my point.
I am not talking about starting with different stats and equip. I am talking about how they mathematically are not balanced.
>master's key being the best starting gift was the "lucky guess" for first time players
And it harms following playthroughs and character creation. I never start without one now unless I specifically want it as a challenge. It is not a choice. Which is a flaw as far as I am concerned in character creation.
Taurus again I don't think is bad. It just gets annoying when you fight him later and there isn't even any interesting change.
>>337504650
>and teaches you to plunge attack.
Didn't the tutorial do that better?
>>337504601
>world tendency is poorly thought out
>healing system is poorly thought out
>magic is utterly broken
>there's no reason to use heavy armor
>whole area cut out
I wouldn't call it a polished and complete game, but that's just me.
>>337497050
Build diversity in DS3 is total shit, there is only one build and its quality. 90% of the STR weapons scale better with a 40/40 build than a pure str build (not the case in ds1 or ds2 since a STR weapon with 60-80 str will always do more dmg than a 40/40 build). Hybrid builds are total ass and require more stat investment and also elemental infused weapons do LESS damage and CAN'T be buffed. Armor is fucking useless. Not hard to see when you discard all the improvements DS2 brought and use the shitty DS1 mechanics with the bloodborne engine.
>>337505160
I mistyped. The tutorial teaches you to plunge attack. the Taurus fight rewards you for applying what you learned.
>>337503547
Nice meme
>>337505295
Never said it was perfect but the flaws you mentioned aren't as glaring.
I don't think any souls game is perfect.
But lets say we give all games a year more imagined dev time. I don't think demon's and bloodborne would change much. Since they are basically done. DaS1 would go through the most changed which makes it the least polished.
>>337504954
>even stats wise?
Yes. In games like this, players will always minmax. It's impossible to make everything even. Again, I agree that entirely useless stats like resistance isn't forgivable.
>and it harms following playthroughs and character creation
I'd say it helps following playthroughs. Very considerate the devs gave us a way to skip Blight town (a "finished" area that was still shit, btw).
None of the bosses have too much interesting change once you learn to fight them.
>>337505379
>Hating ds2
nice meme
>>337497050
It lasted me 52 hours. Call me bad, go ahead, at least I got more out of the game than you
>>337505789
>It's impossible to make everything even
How is it impossible? They made them mathematically balanced in das2, bb and das3.
What the fuck are you talking about?
>>337499363
Beat the game 3 times and I still get lost in Yharnam
>>337506092
>>337505789
Just checked.
They were even balanced in Demon's
DaS1 is the only one were they weren't balanced.
>>337505579
I don't know, maybe. I really like DeS but I felt the game could have used much more polish. DaS obviously lacks a lot of polish in certain areas but that was the case because it was more ambitious, still I feel the overall gameplay mechanics are more polished than Demon's.
>>337497050
Best combat
>>337497050
>dark souls
>50 hours
Get the fuck outta here
>>337506517
So we can agree that das1 needs the most polish at least?
It was the most rushed.
Even overall gameplay wasn't that good in das1. The tracking needed 3 games now to do well. DaS1 enemies were too slow. You basically could just leasurely walk around them and backstab them as much as you want.
DaS2 overcompensated in the other direction to the point were backstabbing was just not a useful strategy.
And das3 is the one were they finally got it right. If you just try to run around them then they will attack you often with small bash attacks but it is possible if you time it correctly.
>>337506092
>Balanced in 3
>When everyone says the Knight shits on all the other classes and Deprived is shit because 10 everywhere compared to 6 in DS1
>tfw Tower of Latria is still the greatest area in the souls series
>>337507067
Yes it is mathematically balanced
I feel like you don't understand the word mathematically.
Also how the fuck is deprived in any way useful if fucking pyromancer starts on SL1 with better stats in das1?
>>337506092
Well, they can make them mathematically balanced like you said, but I don't really see the need for that. The devs don't know what builds people will end up making. Just take a look at ds3, everything's balanced and the knight is still clearly overpowered. Look at demon's souls, everything was balanced and royalty was overpowered.
Mathematical balance is largely irrelevant in games like this, where players will take the challenge of the game and intentionally make it harder for themselves for challenge runs and the like.
>>337507335
But levels and stats are nothing but numbers.
This whole discussion is about how rushed dark souls 1 is. And balancing the classes was clearly something they would've done it if they had enough time.
It is not a huge flaw but it is an area that needs polish. Which is still my entire argument.
DaS1 needed way more development time.
It is just like hollowing not reducing your health. I will bet you that the just didn't have enough time to implement it. Just like they didn't have enough time to balance the classes.
>>337506141
that could just mean you have shit spacial awareness/memory
>>337507585
>levels and stats are nothing but numbers
Exactly. Therein lies the discrepancy and the reason why it's impossible to make everything balanced. Some stats, and therefore some starting classes, will ALWAYS be advantaged over others, because every class wants health, (almost) every class wants endurance, or str/dex whatever. Even if the numbers add up equal, equality in game may not (and is usually not) achieved. Also, even if every stat was equally valuable, then you'd just have discrepancy in starting armor/weapons etc.
I'm not very familiar with the development history of DS1, but I know that sometimes devs are just sick of working on a project, and more development time isn't necessarily very helpful. I don't know if this was the case here, and like you, I would have loved to see a more polished dark souls. But isn't the fact that you wanted such a more perfect version of the game proof of how much you must care about and enjoy the game? If so, then I think dark souls 1 wins on its own merits despite being a bit of a rough diamond.
dark souls 1 is a 15 hour game though, that figure is inflated by newer, shit players, it also has a massive nosedive in quality half way through
dark souls 2 is a 25 hour game, inflated by incredibly shit content
dark souls 3 is a 20 hour game, which is consistently good throughout
>>337508320
Look I completely agree about stats. They will never be perfectly balanced but considering they mathematically balanced them in every other game I see no reason to assume das1 was the one were they suddenly didn't care about it and then did later. Again I am just presenting it as evidence that the game was rushed. Not that it makes a huge difference.
>But isn't the fact that you wanted such a more perfect version of the game proof of how much you must care about and enjoy the game?
I have over 1000 hours on it.
I love das1. But I think objectively das1 is worse than demon's, das3 and bb.
To me design and execution both have to work out to make a great game.
BB, DaS3 and DeS all are good designed and well executed.
You can argue that das1 had more potential or would've been the better game if it were polished but that is not reality.
I take good design and good execution over great design and meh execution.
Maybe das1 has a great design. But everyone can design well, everyone has good ideas. Execution is what makes all the difference.
Also I see no reason to assume the team just didn't give a fuck halfway through development. They didn't for the other game and das2 and 3 are direct sequels and less exciting to work on.
Bamco rushing them seems way more likely.
>>337509063
I don't think unbalanced stats are proof that it was rushed. If anything, the fact that it's the odd game out is more proof that the dev team tried to do something different, didn't like it, and changed it for subsequent games. Also, something like that is the fastest and easiest thing in the game to change, it's just numbers.
I still don't think there's much difference in execution between ds1 and the other games. All these games have areas that could be improved in various ways. I don't feel ds1 is uniquely unpolished in the sense of gameplay.
I will agree with you on one thing though. Dark Souls 1 was definitely overly ambitious. There are too many loose strings left in the game to call it 100% completed.
Examples
>second lordvessel in kiln
>ash lake
>large stone door in demon centipede boss room
Things like this were pretty obviously left unfinished, so I can appreciate if it bothers you.
To me, these errors added to the game. It gave the world more mystery, and it's the reason why ds1 spawned so many lorefags who went around trying to use the pendant on every last pixel of the game. It also makes you wonder what miyazaki's true intentions were, and gave the game even more atmosphere of mystery and discovery.
>>337509063
Another good example I forgot. In the collision data for ds1, there was supposed to be an illusory wall in the are where you find the sunlight maggots. They left the tunnel it goes to, but just got rid of the wall.
Does anybody else wish they would release an updated DS1 in the DS3/BB engine with some of the new weapon and quality of life upgrades?
Playing DS3 wasnt bad or a chore, and maybe the magic of that setting has just worn off a bit since its no longer novel, but the whole time I was playing I just kept thinking back to how much wonder and excitement there was in DS1 and BB. Those new worlds felt so full of passion and life.
I hope that whatever new IP they tackle brings that back. They seem like a studio that thrives on new settings and themes.
>>337497050
bloodborne >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other """"souls games""""
>>337508828
never understood this "quality nosedive." While playing, I had heard about this, and was expecting this, but it never happened. Is it a meme?
>>337510229
>Also, something like that is the fastest and easiest thing in the game to change, it's just numbers.
yeah but it is also something that you save for later.
It makes no sense to balance them early. Exactly my point.
>Dark Souls 1 was definitely overly ambitious.
That is a really nice way of saying mishandled the budget. Early das1 and later das1 has such a huge difference in quality.
I think it is fair to assume that bamco isn't as lenient as sony. The games come out faster. And with das1 the souls team had little experience with bamco. That is why I feel like das3 is so much better. They learned how to properly a whole game with bamco instead of just making a really good beginning.
Again that is also something I feel like many games can do well.
Have really good parts but then run out of budget.
I feel like the ability to properly manage a budget and have a consistent quality is way too underrated.
>>337510665
Later areas are just really bad. Lost Izalith being the most noticable but even crystal caves and tomb of the giants are weaker than the earlier levels.
>>337510621
Guessing you're a "character action" fan too.
I fucking hate that genre name but I don't know what else to call it. Anyway BB is my favorite game of the last decade I think. Still love Souls 1 and 3 though, but they don't hold a candle in my opinion.
>>337510948
Eh I guess I didn't notice since I sprinted past everything for most of the game
>>337511496
They are all action rpgs. BB just leans slightly more on the action side.
>>337512391
for sure, I think thats what I was trying to articulate. I love RPGs and I love action games like Bayonetta and Devil May Cry so BB just felt like a perfect balance to me.
Anon you're comparing games with their full dlc to a vanilla game for the combined total.
>>337512567
Same here.
But I also like how unique bloodborne is compared to the rest. And I guess gaming in general. Medieval fantasy really is everywhere.
I hope they experiment more with the formula and maybe do one game that leans more on the rpg side of action rpgs and more different settings.
>>337500938
The times are all user inputted dipshit. Put your own times in to make it better.
