Shitty camera aside is there a platformer with better, deeper movement than Super Mario 64?
also why does mario have brown sideburns but a black stache and eyebrows shits fucked up
Yes there is, but FIRST we need to talk about parallel universes
Maybe Super Mario Sunshine, but that's about the only competition.
Yes, BloodBorne for the PS4 has the best controls and movement ever made.
Sunshine, too bad about literally every other aspect of the game though.
>>337306441
What? The art style was pretty nice, and the secret stages were good.
>>337306139
>BloodBorne for the PS4
Bro this is getting sad.
Everybody knows the PS4 has no games.
Please stop pretending that a game called "BloodBorne" is real.
>>337306601
le hyperbole face
>>337306630
stay mad cucker.
>>337304972
Some shooters have more in-depth movement.
I wouldn't be suprised if some 2d platformers had more in-depth movement too.
Mario 64 and Sunshine have really good movement though. My only gripe is in 64. If you don't completely stop, Mario goes forward for a little bit when you move down on the analog stick. That's gotten me killed more times than I can count.
There's really not enough games that are fun to just MOVE around in, I can boot up Super Mario 64 and Sunshine anytime and have fun with my own personal shitty speedruns. Long jumping, diving, triple jumping and then kicking off a wall, kicking in midair to stop my momentum in Super Mario 64 or sliding around in Sunshine is just so fun and because the movement is more complex than other platformers, you can beat levels in different, more creative ways. Sure, there's been platformers with better or comparable level design to these two games, but none have really rivaled the movement.
>>337304972
>30fps
>best movement
Fuck off.
>>337306810
Bro it's ok... please just let it go
>>337305456
Sometimes facial hair is a different color than your head hair.
>>337305456
He was undergoing his transformation from Brooklyn plumber to Italian doctor. He must've been at the halfway point at this time.
Vexx and I-Ninja are Mario 64 clones, in which you can do as many things (or even more) than Mario.
They are available for PS2 and Gamecube iirc.
>shitty camera
Is there something I'm missing? Never really had a problem with this games camera.
>>337304972
If this isn't restricted to 3D games, then the Sonic games for the Genesis.
>>337304972
>still complaining about the camera in Mario 64
Didn't you say you had something to do tonight?
>>337308414
Oh come on, it can be really annoying when it forces you into the wrong mode at times and won't let you put it somewhere you ought to be able to put it. It's fine for the time and still a great game, but the camera control is way better in Sunshine / Wind Waker, for instance.
>>337308337
I played I-Ninja on gamecube
It was a pretty good game. Not better than Mario 64, but pretty good. Shame no one talks about it. Never got to play Vexx, though.
>>337309259
>>337309259
I mean, I'm not claiming the game has never had issues for anyone ever at any point in history. I first played the game extremely late because I was the poor kid who was always a generation behind, and even replayed it a year ago and I just didn't remember ever being annoyed with the camera.
Never even played Sunshine, but I played Windwaker and while that game does have a good camera I still don't think Mario 64's is bad.
>>337309683
Mario 64 had a lot of large platforms and non threatening enemies so you didn't need complete control of your camera all the time.
To put it in perspective, most romhacks highly recommend you input a gameshark code to change how the camera operates because the default camera simply doesn't work properly.
Super metroid is considered the mario 64 of 2d platformers.
You run, jump, morph ball and Mach run. You can combine these in all sorts of ways to bypass parts of the game.
inb4 reddit shows up posting gay shit about half button presses and parallel universes
>>337311081
Yea whatever, dildo.
How about you come up with your own content.
>>337305965
>>337306441
Sunshine was dogshit from a gameplay perspective. They tried to add more elements via fludd and those elements ended up taking over the game and killing all the good parts they had nailed in 64. The parts of stages were the fludd was removed were decent, but were most often challenge areas with little going on and increased difficulty.
>>337309259
the camera control is easy, you are just underaged. played on emulator, right? did you play with a controller with six face buttons? it wasn't designed for a stick.
>>337311296
Sunshine is the worse game, but a purely mechanical level the movement is about as deep and complex as in 64, which is what OP asked.
>>337311483
I mean it like, adding more complexity to the game ended up in a shallower experience, as certain systems "overtake" others, if that makes sense.
>>337304972
>mario 64 has a bad camera
This makes literally no sense to me. I'm assuming people who say this are just DSPing and looking for an excuse for sucking at goddamn Mario.
>>337310365
>Mario 64 had a lot of large platforms and non threatening enemies so you didn't need complete control of your camera all the time.
Seems more like what makes the camera work so well is VERY heavy scripting. The camera seems built around the levels, not the other way around as you suggest.
Maybe ROMhackers are just too lazy or incompetent to do the work of properly scripting a camera?
>>337306891
Why do movements in Mario games seem so slippery? It's killing me.
>>337308661
>dis nigga
I like you.
Technically speaking 3D World had just as much, if not, MORE, movement options than 64
Especially when you get the cat suit
>>337315459
Pro Tip Anon
Stop playing as Luigi
>>337315459
Because Mario is actually slippery in 64, also because of that one thing I mentioned. It's ot enough to kill the game though imo, you'll get used to it. They fixed this in Sunshine too.
For one of the first 3D console games Mario 64 has a excellent camera what the fuck are you on? It's follows the stage very well and you can adjust it on the fly seamlessly. If you need to quickly look in front of you, switching to Mario Cam to Lakitu Cam quickly resets it.
>>337305626
Why hasn't he made a new video? Nigga is taking forever, a few of his videos have over a million views
>>337304972
>Mario 64
>bad camera
it's going on twenty years and I still think anyone who has this opinion is a bonafide idiot
there's no just way that I'm wrong
>>337316252
>and you can adjust it on the fly seamlessly
But you can't half of the time, that's where most of the complaints come from.
>>337317170
because you don't fucking need to?
>>337304972
I don't know but the best 3d plataformer of all time is Conkler's bad furday
>>337311773
my thoughts exactly, the camera in 64 seldom fucks you over, unless you don't know how to use R
>>337306139
>Hi i can't read.
>>337317336
(You)
>>337304972
Monkeys in Ape Escape > Stars in Mario
>>337317396
>implying it's not Ty the Tasmanian Tiger
>>337317396
Not even close
>>337315658
>gimped long jump
Idunno man... I just. don't. know.
>>337315658
But the physics are even more gimped then they were in Galaxy though.
Super MarioGalaxy
>>337315658
Wrong.
There is a very clear speed cap and there's no way to overcome it.
By contrast, in Mario 64, Mario's momentum feels very natural and each of his moves responds to it.
>>337318995
trudging through mud, the game.
which also has this automatic step up onto ledges if you can't be asked to jump onto it properly because "muh platforming flow" ...
you know what it's not worth it. no. just no. muh fucking spheres.
fuck that game. 2 was better, but that ain't saying much.
What do you guys think about Mario 64 DS? I loved playing it as a kid. I loved both versions actually. I wish there were a version that had the models of DS but with better textures.
>>337315658
>8 directions
>>337319857
I had Mario 64 DS as a kid and I loved it. Playing as different characters was fun. The extra stars and stages were fun too. It also had some of the best minigames in vidya.
In retrospect, the run button was a really stupid idea.
>>337311773
Most courses aren't bad with the camera. Ones like Tall, Tall Mountain and Tiny Huge Island had camera freak-outs in certain spots.
>>337320045
yeah. run button actually makes sense for Sonic in 3D, but it unnecessary for Mario.
>>337319857
I wonder if they could get away with re-remaking it for the 3ds with analog movement, that was the major flaw.
>>337320174
>run button actually makes sense for Sonic in 3D
Fuck no it doesn't.
I swear to god, if the NX launch Mario isn't a spiritual successor to Super Mario 64, Nintendo are genuine retards.
>>337320268
To me it does. Sonic has more issue with variable speed than Mario does and has a larger disconnect between being able to do fine movement, or flying to the moon in half a second.
That isn't to say it's ever been implemented properly in a Sonic game. Because it hasn't.
>>337320174
>run button actually makes sense for Sonic in 3D
>He liked Super Mario: Lost World
>>337320565
Actually no. I rather hate Sonic as a general rule. It completely contradicts itself, and has since its inception.
Sonic 1 on the SMS was pretty fun, though.
>>337320638
>It completely contradicts itself
Are you one of those "SONIC IS ABOUT FAST BUT WHEN I HOLD RIGHT I RUN INTO STUFF WHAT THE FUCK?????" faggots?
>>337320494
That's a problem with the boost mechanic.
Back before Sonic Heroes you actually had to build up speed unless you hit a spring or a dash pad.
>>337320638
>It completely contradicts itself, and has since its inception
Let me guess. "Sonic is all about going fast, yet it has platforming sections that slow you down."
>>337319045
>There is a very clear speed cap
Even with that cap, your speed in 3d Land/World is markedly faster than in 64
>>337320025
neither of these games are locking you into 8-way movement
you would have known this if you played them
>>337320174
Sonic doesn't need a run button, if anything it should have just been a walk button instead for when you need to platform.
The run button in Lost World made Sonic feel bizarre to control because he accelerates to top speed very fast compared to how he usually does (and for some reason inconsistently loses speed when turning or when running left/right on a cylinder planetoid)
Why does it matter how many movement options there are when 70% of them aren't worth using and the game would more or less be just as good without them?
>>337320701
Are you one of the faggots who imply that that's not a legimate point?
>>337320701
>>337320829
Yup there's that line. No I am not. I have no problem with that. Having speed sections and fine control sections are fine, and are not contradictory. That's complementary.
>>337320972
So what's the contradiction then?
>>337320905
The only move in 64 that isn't useful is the crouch kick which I forgot even existed.
Though I think it's good that crouch + attack does something even if it's not super useful. Games where you hold down and your character doesn't crouch are flawed on a fundamental level even if there's no reason to ever crouch.
>>337320905
>Are you one of the faggots who imply that that's not a legimate point?
It isn't, because Sonic isn't just about going fast. It's about using the environment to gain momentum. and using that speed to do crazy shit.
If you actuallygit gudYou can skip platforming sections or at least take alternate paths that have more convenient platforming.
>>337320972
So you're the anon who made that comment?
What is it about Sonic that's so contradictory then?
>>337320850
>walk button
yeah that's actually more of what i'm getting at. Because going fast is usually fine. actually in 3D games it's pretty bad, but that's beside the point.
>>337321027
The issue is how quickly sonic ramps up speed and goes from "controllable" to "uncontrollable", I guess. And when he's moving fast, he's practically weightless, but when standing still, he weighs an absolute fuck-ton on the ground but has air control out the ass at the same time. so from standing still, you push right, and you hardly move at all, and then when you jump, suddenly he shoots half a screen over and has no weight at all. I have no problem with having to find out how to control something, but Sonic, across all of his states (moving or stationary) does not feel natural? Like there's no real link between his states, physically, you just have to learn how to control him, rotely, instead of instinctually.
>>337321238
I'm the anon that made which comment? Just curious.
I'm only one of those comments linked in your post.
>>337321401
>The issue is how quickly sonic ramps up speed and goes from "controllable" to "uncontrollable", I guess. And when he's moving fast, he's practically weightless, but when standing still, he weighs an absolute fuck-ton on the ground but has air control out the ass at the same time. so from standing still, you push right, and you hardly move at all, and then when you jump, suddenly he shoots half a screen over and has no weight at all. I have no problem with having to find out how to control something, but Sonic, across all of his states (moving or stationary) does not feel natural? Like there's no real link between his states, physically, you just have to learn how to control him, rotely, instead of instinctually.
That actually sounds like a valid complaint. Are you talking about a specific game or the entire Sonic series in general?
I know that in the classic games, Jumping forward was quicker than waking forward up until a certain point. So jumping forward wasn't faster than running (it actually made you lose speed), but it helps you gain momentum faster than just walking.
>>337321401
Wow, really? I've always felt like classic Sonic was incredibly intuitive and natural to control.
You accelerate from zero faster in the air, but I can't say this is something that feels the slightest bit wrong to me.
>>337311773
I think they mean bad camera as in 'I can't swerve"
>>337321728
in general.
instead of working on one continuous physics model for sonic, it's like they have a myriad of different physics models for whether sonic is standing still, walking, jumping, or going fast
and it's actually compounded in the 3D titles because he becomes straight uncontrollable at speed, and they have to gimp the level design to accommodate it rather than just making it. fucking. work. and all of the things they add or take away from his moveset to "make it better" just make it worse, generally. So that natural conclusion is that Sonic is broken on a fundamental level.
But like I said, I actually like Sonic 1 on SMS. That's pretty alright.
>>337321498
>I'm the anon that made which comment? Just curious.
I was referring to the comment that said that Sonic was contradictory.
>>337319045
>>337320835
Y'all clearly don't know about the cat suit speed exploit. Google it.
>>337322037
Yeah. I thought that was obvious. It's not the first time I've said that, and it's not the first time someone (on here) has replied with some line about
>i bet you faggot go fast muh walls n crash whatever
yeah nah
>>337321765
it's not the acceleration. it's the weight. it's wrong.
he should actually weigh more when he's going fast. and that's beside momentum. because I get having to build momentum, that's fine. but physics dictate that an object at speed "weighs more" than an object at rest, right? so why does Sonic feel like he actually weighs less when he's going fast?
It's just weird, man.
>>337322249
>Yeah. I thought that was obvious
A grand total of 1 person has ever complained about Sonic's jumping speed.
Even your point about sonic gaining speed too fast wouldn't be obvious because most people think things like the boost mechanic were a positive addition.
>>337322249
>it's not the first time someone (on here) has replied with some line about
>>i bet you faggot go fast muh walls n crash whatever
Well, seeing as people say that Sonic is contradictory for that exact reason constantly, especially after some YouTube videos saying that exact shit were made, you should definitely expect it if you're just going to say "Sonic is contradictory" and leave it at that.
>>337322565
I have no earthly idea what in the name of fuck you are talking about.
It may well be a failing on my part, but all the same, just thought I'd let you know.
>>337322754
Succinctly, Sonic defies E=mc^2
>>337313157
This, out of all the romhacks I have played, most of them seem to forget how the camera works and make rooms/corridors too damn small and it fucks everything up.
Only one that didnt do this was Shining Stars, but its because the levels are HUGE. It doesnt matter since it has a lot more of problems anyways
>>337311024
What a shame it is floaty as fuck
>>337311431
There is people that doesn't get that the camera is like controlling another Mario and take it for granted.
i play this shit with a 3ds and is still just as good
>>337311024
>>337323290
Megaman X had less movement options but it had much better movement in general tbqh
>>337318436
mah nigga
>>337322883
What is "weight" supposed to mean in your previous post, in terms of things that happen in the games?
What's the actual issue you have?
I want you to describe, not try to make things more succinct.
>>337320835
I don't know what you're on about, 3D World doesn't do analogue.
>>337323587
If you can't understand how the weight of a character can be transferred through the way the controls respond to your inputs, or something along those lines, I'm not sure how to help you, and I don't want to derail this thread any further, because I didn't mean to in the first place, so you'll need to pursue that elsewhere.
>>337323824
You're just speaking extremely generally, and I can't relate what you're saying to my experience playing any of these games in the slightest, which is why I want actual examples of whatever you're talking about.
It's like, what if I just said "Mario Kart is contradictory because the friction is wrong" without really explaining and providing no examples?
Would you be satisfied with this?
>>337318201
Fuck that shark boss. I never knew how the fuck to hurt him.
