![dark_souls_3_irithyll_of_the_boreal_valley_central[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/x7yFMz7.jpg "dark_souls_3_irithyll_of_the_boreal_valley_central[1].jpg")
Tell me how video games can't be considered art.
Toys aren't art.
>>337053261
Video games can't be the vision of a single person, unlike every other form of art.
It's also why games by Kojima and Ueda are often considered the closest to art.
Art isn't something you can just cherry-pick a case for and conveniently ignore entries that don't confirm your bias.
>>337053420
>movies
>>337053420
Theater is considered art, so that makes no sense.
>>337053381
False. Toys can be an artistic expression if it also conveys a message. Or a mint in box toy with high value
>>337053420
False. Multiple people can collaborate on a single piece and still have it be considered art. Otherwise comics, film, theatre, and most music is not art.
Video games can be an artform. They don't have to be though
Le ebin vidyo games aren't art meme!
whoaaaaa......... a bunch of generic victorian clocktowers/churches hidden under a shit load of DoF....... this is truly art
Thanks fromsoft!!!!!!
"Art" itself has a very broad and undefined meaning. Hell, someone taking a shit on a sidewalk could be considered "art".
>>337053261
"Art" is a fucking joke, the term is way too vague. Every time people have tried to put video games and "art" in the same bag, we ended up getting pretentious bullshit you can barely even call "video games".
Video games can look nice, have decent stories (nothing groundbreaking though), good music, whatever, just don't call it "art" because that's a fucking insult these days.
>>337053834
So a videogame can be art, unless it's not, huh?
Is that a unique quality only present in videogames or is it possible for paintings, music, and movies to be created without being art as well?
so praise the artists that actually make the art in the game
the games themselves are usually unoriginal and made for profit
>this is considered art
>video games aren't
>>337053934
If only it was a drawing that took an artist five days instead of a 3D model that took an artist 4 days! Then itd be even better!
oh boy another thread to add to the infinite garbage pile of fags arguing about the nebulous definition of art
how the fuck do yall not get bored of this bullshit
>>337053420
That's an awful explanation.
>>337053834
>>337053727
>>337053667
>>337054269
Even if multiple people collaborate, they're following the vision of a single person: the director.
For video game, there is a single man carrying the vision of the game: the lead game designer/director
But this guy designs the gameplay experience and I know for sure that in game studios, people in charge of the programming and art don't even have to know what the gameplay actually is to do work for the game (and most of them don't).
>>337054085
>is it possible for paintings, music, and movies to be created without being art as well?
I think so. Capeshit is a good example.
Videogames are art, they are just really shit compared to other more popular art forms.
Also, you could say your latest fart is pure art and nobody could really tell you otherwise so who fucking cares anyway
>>337054085
Music: is a commercial jingle art?
No. Not always art.
Paintings: is a propaganda poster art?
Not really...sometimes not art.
Movies: same point with propaganda, but 99% of the time movies are indeed art, unless its made for a non artistic reason...which is more or less the theme here.
>>337053934
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.
>>337053497
This.
Art isn't something positive or negative.
If games are art it doesn't make them better or anything, it just changes their definition.
>>337053261
Video games are a product.
>>337053420
this actually makes sense
>>337054012
>>337053985
These.
The word "art" doesn't mean jack shit any more, if it even did to begin with.
>>337054313
The person who makes a paint brush has no idea what it'll create. Doesn't chabge the outcome. (Which is usually art)
>>337053261
Nope, we're better than that.
>>337053420
>what are bands
>what are film crews
>what are inkers and colorists
This is the most retarded post i've read all week.
>>337054454
This tobehones
>>337054545
And paintings, music, literature, etc. aren't? You saying the creators of those things don't make money off them?
>>337054376
There's a difference between creating something and art.
Art is anything that has heart and soul in it, and can evoke a deep meaning from the artist and something in the consumer
Creating something, like most people do, is creating it for money, popularity, and anything but that deep meaning/reason you needed to create art.
So no most videogames arnt art: you cant be doing true art if you dont have an internal reason to create it. If you do it for money or anything else you spoil that.
Of course if you make money from art later on then that is fine as long as that isnt the driving force.
Art is dying because of too many chefs and jews in control.
>>337054313
Everything that goes into a theatrical performance is part of the artform.
>>337053261
They have always been art and always will be. It is an expression of human creativity therefore it is art. Computer viruses are art too. Sure it isn't a high art but who gives a shit about that?
>>337053261
I know vidya are objectively art, but i don't like them to be classified that way. I'd take generic AAA yearly installments any day over pretentious walking simulators or another so retro pixel art bullshit.
>>337054706
Thats producing something. It isnt art. It never will be.
ITT: bunch of hipster faggots argue the definition of art
>>337054801
None of those are art. True art isn't a product to be sold.
If you create something to sell, it is not art.
>>337055045
everything is produced fuckface. nothing is art by your definition.
Video games are art, but that doesn't mean it's good or bad. Art is just any creative expression, and video games count as that.
>>337055093
epic, simply epic
>>337055093
Whoa whoa.
You can create art to sell, that's all well and good. But its important to stay true to your vision as an artist. Don't copy what's popular for cash, and don't sell out.
>>337055093
No art isnt produced its created. You just do it because you have to. Not for monet or fame, but because you have a message or problem you need to format into a creative form in order to explain it.
Go home Jew boy quit fucking the world.
>>337053261
>game has an area you think it's pretty
>suddenly it's art
Seriously senpai?
>>337053261
>he thinks an interactive medium (that is, a game dressed up as art) which requires viewer input via a series of button presses in order to 'win' will ever, EVER, be superior to a medium which facilitates reverie, contemplation, reflection and enlightenment
fuck off with your children's toys faggot
>>337055264
Everyone just stop posting, this man has nailed it on the head right here.
Creative expression faggots, that's all it takes for something to be art.
Whether it's good or bad is a different subject.
>>337055427
>produce
>cause (a particular result or situation) to happen or come into existence.
>create
>bring (something) into existence.
>cause (something) to happen as a result of one's actions.
You might want to look into what synonyms are, anon.
>>337055573
>requires viewer input via a series of button presses in order to 'win'
This one is true
> will ever, EVER, be superior to a medium which facilitates reverie, contemplation, reflection and enlightenment
this,however, is not true.
>>337053261
Because then you get an influx of these faggots trying to shill their walking simulators as art.
>>337055427
Dude, Michelangelo, DaVinci and all the greatest artists in history all had a team of apprentices producing their greatest art for them. Art isn't just some wailing you write on a guitar when your girlfriend cheats on you. It's anything that is made by man and evokes an emotional response. Nothing more than that.
Video games are not art, it is entertainment.
Entertainment is not art.
It is entertainment.
Entertainment can be art, in specific circumstances; vice versa, this does not make all entertainment art.
Art is a subjective representation of a thought, feeling, or thing.
You know art when you see it.
To call all video games art is a mistake.
>>337054109
>made for profit
what isn't?
DS3 skyrocketed dark souls' popularity btw. it didn't use to be this way. go back to your casual reddit games
>>337055898
Actually it's the opposite. Those are the people that think video games need to "grow up" before they can be considered art. I believe video games have always been art and that a game like Mega Man is 10 times more artistic than gone homo.
>>337055573
>strawman: the post
Here is the definition of art since you people are so fucking daft.
>The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power:
Yes it's incredibly vague, art is ESSENTIALLY ANYTHING.
So yes, vidya, movies, music, pouring spaghettios in your vagina is art.
Now fuck off
>>337056150
So in short: They can be.
>>337056282
>pouring spaghettios in your vagina
Fucking kek. I'm gonna remember that one.
>>337056446
I'm not kidding
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RM1oTw6fPg
>>337056446
hownew.ru
I don't want video games to be art, because art has been twisted into some horrible, stupid means of expression by brain damaged freaks. Please stay away from video games, degenerates.
>New from Activision: Paint Shit Simulator!
>>337053261
They're entertainment, like movies. Sure they can have artistic merit, but 'art games' are just like 'art films,' niche. My favorite movies aren't art, neither are my favorite games.
>>337054145
>Anon would you like yo buy one piece from me?
>Sure, this one looks cool, how much?
>Forty four
>Ok, there you go Forty bucks
>No anon, fourty four MILLIONS
>...........
because you dont understand what art it´s suposed to be.
>>337053261
Fuck that.
Does anyone think theater is fucking retarded?
All it is is people showing they can act which okay you can actually be touched when a good actor manages to convince you that he actually is that character but it is always just for a few moments. Then you notice, the costumes made by one underpaid lady, the cardboard set, the less than 5 props they use.
Theater can stop being high art and crawl into it's niche. Movies are infinitely better. You can enjoy everything theater has +soundtrack, costumes, lighting, cinematography, sound design, directing, different locations, VFX
Fuck theater
>>337054313
>auteur is the only form of art
How's your first semester of art appreciation, bub?
Autuerism died when objectivism died
>>337053261
Because we don't want them to be.
Technically anything can be art. That particularly explosive shit you left plastered across the toilet bowl this afternoon? Art. As long as it conveys some sort of emotion or elicits some sort of emotional response then there you go, it's art.
We don't call games 'art' because we don't want holier-than-thou douchebags with worthless liberal art degrees shitting up our otherwise reasonable discussions of game mechanics and whether or not a game was fun. The term 'art' attracts pseudo-intellectual faggots with a raging hardon for dank themes - the kind of people who just have to lecture you on what the story meant to them and how deep their interpretation of it was, all the while jerking off to how smart they sound.
>>337054169
craftmanship and art arent the same thing
>>337057086
>I have never been to a professional theater production and still think my opinion on theater is relevant
[email protected]
>>337057115
This. Objectivists pls go
>>337057086
You might have just seen shitty shows then. The benefit of theater is that the actors can play off a live audience so there's the potential for interaction that you don't get from movies.
>>337057086
>my only experience with theather its the christmass school play
>>337054313
That's like saying a sports team is carrying creative vision of the coach. When the star player scores a goal you don't congratulate the coach for telling him to score a goal. Collaborative media is built on improvisation and compromise, half the time the director is just some glorified middle manager who doesn't know shit about making any individual part of the thing.
>>337057086
Shut your whore mouth. I went to watch a high-budget play of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory the other day and it was the fucking tits.
>>337053261
A product is created to entertain and thus sell to keep an industry alive.
Art is created with no intention for it to be sold or even liked.
>>337057756
>pulling shit from your ass, the post
>>337057112
>That particularly explosive shit you left plastered across the toilet bowl this afternoon? Art
Nope, it isn't art unless it expresses creativity. If you just shit into your toilet that isn't creative. If you shit and do something with it then it's creative. Video games objectively involve creativity. It's really an easy thing to grasp, why you guys continue to fail at understanding is beyond me. Also it's the people that say video games aren't art that attract pretentious douches, because they think it just needs to be changed a little to become art. If you want them to go away tell them that games have always been art.
>>337057756
>Art is created with no intention for it to be sold
I'm wholly convinced modern art is a means for money laundering. That's just my opinion, though.
>>337054145
Overpriced shit for snubs and hipster
"You dont get it anon, its all about the artist life and all the challenges he had to afront"
Nigga is just a fucking line in a blue painted canvas, fuck you and your overpriced shit, you dense fucks
>>337057842
>pulling shit from your ass
Yeah that's called modern art.
/r/ing the one screencap with the sculptor complaining about the auto-fellatio statue being placed next to his dragon statue.
there is an objective quality in fine art
video games are definitely art -- the whole process of making a game, alone, debunks naysayers -- but most games are too cheesy and especially novel to be considered "fine art" or even to be taken seriously
>>337058310
your shitpost is an example of modern art.
>>337058457
He put more effort into it than most modern art displays.
>>337058638
can't argue with that
>>337053261
You obviously don't know the first thing about art, OP. Video games can't be art. Now this is art.
>>337057875
>Shitting isn't an art form
You're deciding how the shit turns out by how hard you squeeze.
Be gentle and it comes out as a neat loaf of turd
Be hard and it comes out as a greasy brown much
>>337058638
You might say I strained myself a bit.
>>337054145
Can't you see that guy is wearing a fucking tuxedo? You obviously have no appreciation for art.
>>337053261
It is.
Art: The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
There you go, art in a nutshell. Of course you're going to have "exclusive" cancers that pretend that only certain creations can be considered art however at the end of the day your perception of art all comes down to your concousness.
"If you have a golf-ball-sized consciousness, when you read a book, you'll have a golf-ball-sized understanding; when you look out a window, a golf-ball-sized awareness, when you wake up in the morning, a golf-ball-sized wakefulness; and as you go about your day, a golf-ball-sized inner happiness."
HELLO VIDEO GAMES 4CHAN
IS THIS THE KIND OF THREAD WHERE NERD-CROWD PLEBS ARGUE FOR VIDEO GAMES BEING ART WHILE THEY POLISH THEIR PRETTY SATURDAY MORNING RPG COPIES AND OTHER SHITTY WESTERN GAMES?? I THINK SO
LET ME TELL YOU ONE THING
VIDEO GAMES ARE, IN FACT, ART. YOU -- YES, YOU, YOU NIGGER-FUCK -- ARE UPSETTING YOURSELVES WHEN YOU ALLOW YOURSELVES TO SEE PEOPLE SAY THAT GAMES AREN'T ART. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE "GOOD" TO BE ART
THERE IS NO REASON FOR YOU TO PROVE ANYONE OTHERWISE
WHAT -- YOU THINK DEVS ARE GOING TO FLY YOU OVER TO THEIR STUDIOS AND GIVE YOU A JOB AS AN IDEAS GUY JUST BECAUSE YOU ARGUE FOR THE FACT THAT THEY ARE ART?
FUCK OFFFFFFFF
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>337056768
What happened to that cat :(
>>337053261
That are art, anything that's the product of creative expression. In 2012 when you participated in the most disgusting drawfag on /mlp/ and made shit that you're not proud of, as degenerate as that is, that's still art.
The question is though: are video games /highart/?The answer is no.
>>337055348
THIS
ISNT
ART
Um, yes. Video games can quite easily be art.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art
>>337059069
It was born with no eyes. It lives a happy life, though.
>>337058803
Well in that case it is an art.
>>337056768
if you put it that way, it is already art. check out all the western indie trash. you just described it
They are art.
This is not debatable. Art is pretty much entirely based on subjectivity, not only its quality but its very existence. The only actual working definition of art is simply "creative expression". This means that ink on paper is art, recordings of people reciting fictional dialogue is art, sound produced from vibrating strings is art, and yes, video games are art.
You live in the modern era. Marcel Duchamp presented a urinal as art (making a statement about this very subject), and it was ultimately accepted as art.
Let's say you don't accept that as art. That's great. It isn't art to you. No matter how much you don't think its art, though, there will be some guy who does. It doesn't matter if every single person on the face of the earth considers something art, or if only you do, the fact it is interpreted as art, makes it art.
That's the only actual working definition of art.
Whether or not any video game is actually a GOOD piece of art, is another question entirely.
Can anyone in this thread name 5 pieces of art off the top of their heads that had nothing to do with money changing hands in its creation?
>>337055093
>If you create something to sell, it is not art.
[citation needed]
There is zero difference between art and entertainment.
>>337053261
why would a game be art?
>>337053261
Give me one good example of "video game art."
>>337060026
baseball and poker aren't works of art so why should a video game be considered art?
>>337060348
Tetris
>music is art
>games have music
>drawings are art
>game needed someone to draw and design it
Still, basically what >>337054454 said.
>>337060026
go back to your community college. what you said has already been stated multiple times
>>337060348
I guess something like wind waker, the in game art is beautiful. Shame it basically was "lost potential: the video game".
>>337060624
so is poker art because it has drawings on them?
>>337053261
everything in existence is art
>>337060409
>baseball and poker aren't works of art
Not exactly true. Working from the definition of expression, if the games were held as works of art, then they are works of art. Working from the definition of interpretation, it is not difficult at all to consider something like baseball a work of art, no different from organized dance.
The only thing keeping you from seeing them as art, is you.
Honestly, if still pictures are considered art, then videos games(which are just moving, interactive pictures) are also art.
>>337060348
you see that model?
it didn't fucking make itself
it like you think there is a abc model to making games or that they grow out of the ground or something
>>337060348
LSD: Dream Emulator.
>>337057089
Auteurism died because faggot relativist like you have increased in vocality. And now society is stuck with babbies who take postmodernism seriously.
>>337060729
Learn how words work, dumbfuck.
No-one considers what I did in the toilet this morning art.
>>337053420
What the fuck is an indie game
Hell, i'd consider shit like The Sky May Be for doom a kind of bullshit postmodern art
>>337060826
they aren't held as works of art
>>337053420
Only 1 game could ever be considered art and its Killer 7
>>337060970
If you preserved, called it art, and had it treated as art it's pretty much art.
Shitty art but still art.
>>337060728
poker is gambling, not every game "can be" art
just like not every drawing is art
>collection of game mechanics
>art
Lol, no. This is like saying the canvas of the mona lisa is art because it's what the mona lisa is painted on.
>>337060924
Now that's art. And rare.
>>337060728
poker cards? sure.
tons of great designs over at bicycle.
stop talking about shit you don't know about.
>>337060348
Tr3s Lunas
because they're sold en masse
>>337060970
You know nothing
There are literally people shitting on canvas and that's supposed to be art, not to mention shit like this >>337061108
Art is whatever you will it to be. The acceptance of your view falls upon the details of your expression and the reaction of others to them.
This is why a film about a serial killer is art, but a serial killer actually killing people isn't. One is accepted, the other is an expression accepted only by the person responsible.
Art then, has always been the area up to what we will accept is art, and just a bit ways over the line too.
>>337061161
here's the thing those are decorative card sets and the original designs are there for the player to identify them with a glance
>>337060728
Yeah, the cards have art on them. Also you could argue anything competitive is art. If I took a piece of shit and smeared it on a wall its art, its stupid as fuck but it's art.
Really I could give two shits if games are art, art is a pretty vague term
>>337061108
Do that for everything in existence and your overlord's retarded definition will then be correct, culture.vg faggot.
Why would you want games to e considered art?
The medium would saturate with 2deep4u shit and probably a new mestruation genre wich symbolizes war on the middle east.
The least people consider games art, the best.
>>337053261
The responsibility of proof is carried by the one that does the claim.
>>337061046
Shallow as fuck
When people ask "are videogames art?" they're asking "m-muh bioshock and walking simulator are on the same level as shakespeare and herzog movies aren't they, please say they are :^(", they're simply asking for validation
Some think that art is synonym for "that fancy intellectual thing that smarty people appreciate", they're insecure and want to feel like they're part of their imaginary community of "art appreciators"
Meanwhile people who like vidya simply don't give a shit whether it's art or not
>>337061108
>if you make something art it's art
wow, thanks for clearing that up
>>337061694
I agree with you but don't post that webm ever again
>>337053261
is animation art
is modelling art
is lighting art
is texturing art
is level design art
are character and creature design art?
>>337060886
All I could read from your post was
>I'm a frogposting faggot please rape my meme face
>>337053261
Video games, just like how movies, TV shows, comics, and music, aren't art.
They're merely entertainment. Something cheap to bring joy to the masses.
Ice-Pick Lodge are possibly the only people who produce actual art games (and I don't consider walking simulators, badly disguised feminism propaganda, undershit etc art games).
Especially true for Tension.
>>337060348
literally every single video game that has animation
animation is a highly respectable and skill based art
>>337062130
You gettin those colors son?
>>337062009
If you wanted a rarer pepe all you had to do was ask man
>>337060970
That's because you didn't present it to an audience.
>>337061694
>inside me is askeleton
>but inside a spider isanother spider
FUCK
>>337053420
Undertale
Video games are a mix of arts.
Theycanhave :
- Litterature
- Graphics
- Musics
If they are not art, then what are Artbooks ? Soundtracks ? Scripts ?
You can say that the gameplay is a form of art because it's a crafted thing that some people will find good or bad but will a feeling toward it.
>>337062329
I feel like it actually utilizes eroticism without turning the sisters into vulgar fapbaits.
Do you admire antique statues of naked women for their display of pure female beauty or because your willy gets hard by looking at them?
Same with Tension. Very few developers can achieve that effect. Most of the women in videogames blatantly appeal to young male hormones.
>>337053420
hyper autism
>>337063075
I agree
>>337063076
I think it's the setting, the sisters always feel out of place in the Void.
Also, in order to feed them you have to sacrifice the resource that keeps you alive, it's like the sisters are asking to be bathed on your blood.
>>337063630
One of the theories is that sisters represent the dreamer's inmost desires while brothers - his worst fears.
That part about colour being akin to your own blood is just plain wrong. In the end, you can ascend alone or become a brother. Nobody forces you to bleed yourself dry for any of those hoes.
>>337063075
Exactly, video game is a lot of arts combined, and for this reason it's not art.
>>337053261
What makes anything art?
Public opinion.
An average amount of people considering it to be as such makes something art.
You can call whatever you want art.
You can often find a number of people who would agree with you.
What makes something "considered art" as you have phrased it is about average opinion.
There are some who argue motion pictures are not art because to them you have to imagine for something to be art and for movies the picture and sound are already established.
Personally I see vidya as the natural digitization of the performing arts.
You can digitize a book, music, movies etc. but how does one digitize say the act of dancing?
You the player perform actions.
There are games where you are graded on precision.
Others that are more free form.
One can argue that vidya is not as robust as the performing arts of meat space.
Are worlds constrained through a rectangular less at 28 frames a secound not less kin to the images your eyes perceive?
Most songs are not recorded in 3D audio.
Do they too not fail to simulate the sound of a live performance?
But technology advances from .flac to higher resolution and frames the human eye actually views at.
Personally I'd rather vidya was never considered an art.
Calling something art just attracts greedy egotistical faggots who try and pigeon hole a medium and attract a casual demographic of who are also egotistical faggots.
The trade off of getting something you called art just means people don't snicker or look disgusted when you say you like it.
>claims games aren't art
Explain this
>talking about art in a post-relativist world
>>337053261
Only Silent Hill 2 is art
>>337065503
Sorry friendo, but Book of Memories is also technically art, and even Gone Home is art.
Enjoy your fan favorite circlejerk :)
>>337054470
> the art of persuasion
>>337053261
>people posting artwork as if that disproves the claim
I truly despise this meme born entirely of ignorance. For 'games' to be an artform, you need to look at the game itself, the rules and forms of interaction.
Art isn't a set term, it's subjective. The most objective you can be is that everything is and is not art to someone.
Literally all it means is "I like thing", or nowadays "I'm a pretentious fuck who needs to justify why I like thing"
>>337063075
This I fucking hate people like OP.
>this fucking escapist environment from a videoGAME means a game in its I entirety is art.
What defines a video game as a work of art is the quality of its gamesthetics(elements of a game assigned to no other medium) in both content and strutcure.
