Zelda
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
>Let's be honest.
The Zelda series peaked years ago and it is nothing more than a relic being kept alive by those indoctrinated by the parent company. While multiple other series have come and gone that have done things better than Zelda in myriad ways (Dark Souls, Elder Scrolls) Zelda has become stale, it's brand has become diluted by garbage like Hyrule Warriors and it's made everyone tired of the series by remaking almost every single game in the series in the last half a decade.
There are multiple problems with Zelda, and they start with Aonuma being someone who simply doesn't know how to direct a great game anymore being the root of the problem.
Zelda - despite encompassing a multitude of games with a grand legacy, has a piss poor story, and fans have simply glued pieces together like a conspiracy theory, it never goes anywhere and it never says anything, it has no themes, no emotion and the writing is average. In gaming today, you need a great story when your game is not a platformer and Zelda hasn't got one, and it will probably never have one because it isn't "Zelda".
Next the combat, it's simple - the combat is for children. You literally hold the shield up and wait for the enemy to strike or expose itself like a dunce and slash or throw an item. The bosses have gigantic glaring weak points, there is no agility, there is no customization, there is no challenge, it's a relic of a genre that is now bettered every year (from DMC to GoW to Souls to Bloodborne).
I could go on but basically Nintendo don't have what it takes to make Zelda what they actually NEED it to be, and putting this much pressure on it at E3 is going to be disastrous when their already skeptical and basically pissed off fanbase get nothing but it to play NEXT year - after all the delays - it may be the final straw in Nintendo's RELEVANCY.
Discuss.
Nah.
>>336645621
>elder scrolls
>better than anything
Stopped reading there.
>>336645621
Fucking disney is going to absorb Nintendo, just like pretty much every company in existence. Nintendo is the next victim because it is going downhill as fuck.
>>336645809
>popular /v/, /mu/, or /tv/ tastes matter
Nope, friendo, nope.
>>336645621
>Elder Scrolls
I don't get the TES comparisons that people make. The two series are completely different and always have been. The only thing they have in common is that the early Zelda games also have somewhat open world exploration, but even then it's not nearly as vast as TES and it really shouldn't be because that would take focus away from the dungeons, which Zelda excels at.
A better comparison would be Okami.
>being honest
Skyward Sword was one of my favorite 3D Zeldas and I really enjoyed ALBW and TH.
I like Zelda games and I am excited for Zelda WiiU. It is okay that you do not / are not.
>>336645974
That would make Nintendo's deal with Universal Studios pretty awkward.
>>336645703
You mad?
>>336646140
He's right though, I don't give a fuck about zelda anymore, but Bethesda games have bad combat, awful animations and dialog, have done blatant copypasting (look at Oblivion's dungeons that recycled everything and look the same) shitty overworld enemies, linear quests and the list goes on.
Also >>336646210 is right, Zelda games are action adventure, while TES games are RPGs.
>>336646214
Skyward Sword is a shit game period, the king of rehashing incarnate - with shitty shit shit controls to boot. A total piece of garbage.
>>336645621
You're right, it does lack some modern standards and gets a pass because it's Zelda.
>>336645621
>While multiple other series have come and gone that have done things better than Zelda in myriad ways (Dark Souls, Elder Scrolls) Zelda has become stale, it's brand has become diluted by garbage like Hyrule Warriors and it's made everyone tired of the series by remaking almost every single game in the series in the last half a decade.
>In gaming today, you need a great story when your game is not a platformer and Zelda hasn't got one, and it will probably never have one because it isn't "Zelda".
>Next the combat, it's simple - the combat is for children. You literally hold the shield up and wait for the enemy to strike or expose itself like a dunce and slash or throw an item. The bosses have gigantic glaring weak points, there is no agility, there is no customization, there is no challenge, it's a relic of a genre that is now bettered every year (from DMC to GoW to Souls to Bloodborne).
It pangs me to realize and agree with this shit but it's true.
>>336645621
Mario and Zelda peaked on the N64. They could make Zelda Wii U/NX great if its open world and actually good. I don't mean Ubishit styled open world, I mean something new that would revolutionize the genre like Nintendo games used to do. I highly doubt that will happen but I can dream.
I will NEVER understand how this piece of shit game got an 93
NEVER
>>336647216
You mean Skyward Sword?
>>336645621
>blah blah blah blah zelda is stale waah waah abloo abloo blah blah blah blah
same shit every day with you people.
>>336647216
You shouldn't trust reviews
>>336647359
but GTA is great fun
>>336647448
That game was dull as fuck and has one of the highest scores for videogames on metacritic.
>>336645621
You can really tell the difference from people that genuinely WANT a new Zelda that is good for a change, from people that just want to complain.
>"Nintendo just make a good Zelda like you used to make!"
>"No don't re release the Zelda games that were good!"
>>336646981
>In gaming today, you need a great story when your game is not a platformer
No. No you do not.
Nigga I'm not reading all of that.
Zelda's pretty mediocre desu senpai, especially the 64 games. Only games I genuinely had fun with was the first Zelda and Wind Waker(this game because discovering new islands was always a blast, not a fan of its dungeons though).
>>336647216
Hard to trust any reviews of video games, the problem of greasy palms of reviewers goes all the way back to when video game magazines were first founded. Go back and see all the shit Dan Shoe of EGM dragged out in the open in the early early 2000s, nobody listened then and it just got worse as the print era of game writing died off.
>>336647592
Why because you're an illiterate faggot, right?
>>336645621
I fucking hate neo/v/
>>336646214
Genuinely curious, how can you like Skyward Sword so much and at the same time be excited for Zelda U?
Those two games are like completely the opposite given what we know, and most SSfags shitpost about Zelda U the first chance they get.
>>336647216
>>336647326
>>336647606
>There are people who STILL don't know that Skyward Sword looked fucked from the start
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogvpnQKLsko
>>336645621
>The Zelda series peaked years ago and it is nothing more than a relic being kept alive by those indoctrinated by the parent company.
You could've ended it there. That in itself is one fucking hilarious sentence nonetheless.
>>336647756
Oh I believe it's fucked, just game reviews have been fucked a whole lot longer.
>>336645621
>Elder Scrolls
>better than Zelda
'no'
Besides, the two series are apples and oranges.
also
>HW
>garbage
>>336647660
Brevity. Something you'll learn in high school, friend.
>WHY ISN'T MUH ZELDA LIKE MUH SOULS GAMES
My god /v/ really rides this series and shits on anything that's not like it
>>336647756
>that bomb part
christ
>>336647991
Isn't souls pretty Zelda inspired already? Feels like Zelda already, just more punishing on the overall.
>>336647723
>neo /v/
You'd find this same thread 5 years ago.
>>336647980
>Brevity
>despite replying twice to a thread you claim to have no interest in
>>336648138
I was about to post the same thing
>>336648064
Souls has RPG elements, and has way more focus on combat, while Zelda has more focus on adventuring
>>336648064
The Souls games are pretty much the fights against the humanoid enemies (the most fun combat in Zelda) from OoT and Majora's Mask given their own game.
>>336647592
>Zelda's pretty mediocre desu senpai
This, Zelda games (fuck, pretty much all Nintendo games) have always been mediocre. The only difference is that back then, mediocrity was brilliant compared to the flat-out incompetent shit 70% of the industry was making.
You can do things:
1. swallow your pride and standards and learn to tolerate mediocrity
2. Quit the franchise and continue on the path of playing fewer and fewer games
>>336645621
>Nintendo don't have what it takes to make Zelda what they actually NEED it to be,
See, when people say stuff like this they think that zelda would benefit from elements that other AAA games have.
Yet, Zelda games are still good in thier own way they are unlike any other AAA games that come out. They're casual just like Gears, Uncharted, CoD/Halo/Battlefield but to its own end is a different game entirely
>>336647592
>Zelda's pretty mediocre desu senpai, especially the 64 games
no.
I think it was this moment that Nintendo fully sold out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM2DCflkA6s
>336648240
>The only difference is that back then, mediocrity was brilliant compared to the flat-out incompetent shit 70% of the industry was making
Spoken like someone who watched videos on youtube about the era since they were born in 1997.
>>336647592
>>336648240
I think you're the only people who believe that.
You can't find a more nonlinear game than even Twilight Princess these days (I will let you have Skyward Sword), much less a better one.
I don't normally tell people this if they contribute anything to a thread, but just shut up.
>>336648240
You're a fucking retard.
Zelda games peaked in the N64 era. Both WW and TP have a myriad of problems that brought them down. Anyway OP is one of those clueless faggots who thinks Zelda games are RPGs.
>>336648287
There hasn't even BEEN a Zelda game to compare to ANY AAA game you cocksucker. The series is practically fucking dead until the next iteration.
>>336647731
Because Zelda is such a versatile series. As long as it has that feeling of adventure, it could be about anything.
>>336647660
No because I'm not reading a fucking essay from an anonymous nobody. Keep it simple stupid.
>>336645621
We need a Zelda game with Dark Souls gameplay
>>336645621
>>Zelda - despite encompassing a multitude of games with a grand legacy, has a piss poor story, and fans have simply glued pieces together like a conspiracy theory, it never goes anywhere and it never says anything, it has no themes, no emotion and the writing is average. In gaming today, you need a great story when your game is not a platformer and Zelda hasn't got one, and it will probably never have one because it isn't "Zelda".
You mean more like an overaching story that spawns across all the games? Not every series needs that, Zelda is fine by having each game telling a different story, they are not something amazing, but they are still good and entertaining
>Next the combat, it's simple - the combat is for children. You literally hold the shield up and wait for the enemy to strike or expose itself like a dunce and slash or throw an item. The bosses have gigantic glaring weak points, there is no agility, there is no customization, there is no challenge, it's a relic of a genre that is now bettered every year (from DMC to GoW to Souls to Bloodborne).
It's simple enough that it works, you can optimize the items you use in combat to defeat enemies faster, is not perfect, but it still has some elegant design. You also mentioned TES which does has a worse combat than Zelda.
The series does need improvement, even in the areas you mentioned, especifically combat, it wouldn't hurt to have a more complex combat system. Exploration and dungeon design could be improves too
They are not bad games by any stretch of the imagination, but I agree that the series needs to improve in a lot of areas
>>336648462
>>336648474
Mediocrity isn't meant to be an insult.
If anything, video games need to be more humble, they've grown too proud and pompous.
>>336648517
If only you could compare things retroactively, comparing innovations and new mechanics, aw gee but I guess we should just look at this generation of games, you slowmo
>>336648529
>Versatile
LMAONADE
>>336648240
If you mean mediocre because they set the standard than maybe you are right. This post implies that games still have standards though.
>>336648627
Yes only a Nintendrone would look nowhere else but the past because its the only place that makes them happy
>>336645621
>you need a great story when your game is not a platformer and Zelda hasn't got one, and it will probably never have one because it isn't "Zelda".
Zelda doesn't need one, story has ruined gaming.
Everything else is right though, modern Zelda is shit.
>>336646214
Is not a bad game, but it is certainly the most flawed out of all the 3D Zeldas. Not having too much exploration is a big detriment, pacing is bad and make the backtracking feel like a chore, especially when collecting the song notes in Faroe. Motion controlls could have been disposed off, same with all the tutorials that the game has.
But, things like the Lanayru desert, and dungeons like the pirate galleon, the water systern, volcano and more were some of the best stuff in the series. I don't think that I'd call SS one of my favorites but it was still a really enjoyable game
>>336648704
Standard-setting doesn't mean you're particulary good, just that you did something people paid attention to.
>garbage like Hyrule Warriors
Dropped.
>>336648751
>N-nintendrone
Gotcha
>>336648751
BTFO
>>336648595
They have every right to be pompous considering they set the standards for adventure games all the way from the mid-80s to the early 2000s. Nintendo is shit now, without a doubt, but Zelda's impact on the industry and the current devs in the community is undeniable. Every adventure game maker would love to be hailed as the creator of the successor to Zelda.
Link Between Worlds was awesome. End of story.
>>336649079
No Zelda game is really that pompus though, they've all been quite simple games.
I'd say thatSkyrimset a new standard for adventure games due to culling the RPG elements of the game, from a casual gaming perspective. The new thing is open worlds and Skyrim pretty much has started that trend (albiet GTA games)
>>336649208
so...you're saying skyrim started open worlds and open worlds with adventure game aspects?
Are you functionally fucking retarded?
>>336649208
I just never could get into Skyrim, the combat was just too fucking terrible for me. And I'm not saying Zelda is the golden standard for great combat either, it's basic and inviting, not a bad thing but it lacks complexity most of the time (though there are interesting boss mechanics every now and then). I've enjoyed the souls combat a lot lately, just started getting into the franchise lately and its been a whole lot of fun.
>>336649346
You're arguing with a different person now, for the record
>>336649346
>so...you're saying skyrim started open worlds and open worlds with adventure game aspects?
No you ding dong, I'm saying it made open world popular.
It's why every game now-a days describes itself as open-world and half the marketing of The Witcher 3 shows that.
>>336649079
Except they didn't set the standard - Dragon Slayer did you Nintendo dickrider - Nintendo just iterated on it.
>>336649402
>it made open world popular.
I reiterate.
Are you fucking retarded?
>>336649402
>I'm saying it made open world popular.
Fantasy open world anon. As a whole the genre was made popular by GTA. Skyrim did brought some things that has influenced a lot of stuff today tho.
>>336645621
I agree. Zelda used to literally be the gold standard. I'm not speaking with rose tinted nostalgia glasses here. LoZ was the best game on NES. ALttP was the best game on the SNES. LA was the best gameboy game and OoT was the best N64 game.
It was a triple A series, not in the sense of a giant budget but in the sense of being the highest quality of the time.
With Aonuma came on board it has become a complete joke, yet Nintendo still acts like it is the ace up its sleeve. It worked for OoT because that was an incredible game, coming off the back of four previous games that were all amazing good. But that was almost 20 years ago.
Nintendo needs to seriously think about the games it is producing. It's business plan is based around people buying its hardware to play its exclusive games, but the problem is they stopped making games people want to play. They need to either change their business strategy, or figure out how to make good games again.
Aonuma must die
>>336649208
Skyrim didn't set any standards outside of further popularizing the complete dumbing down of WRPGs. OoT had better combat and is an adventure game released 18 years ago. Devs should be ripping that game off more but they won't because making a game of that size with that much content with that kind of gameplay is hard work.
>>336649420
Yet how many people even talk about or remember Dragon Slayer, it was obviously not good enough to leave a lasting impact, so fuck off and take your fun fact bag elsewhere. It's not just a matter of doing something first, it's doing it right and in a marketable manner and you damn well know it.
>>336645621
>While multiple other series have come and gone that have done things better than Zelda in myriad ways (Dark Souls, Elder Scrolls)
I understand Dark Souls but how is TES anything remotely like LoZ?
>>336649384
I think that's one of the bigger challenges of making an open world game. Honestly I think Bethesda just said 'fuck it' when it came to combat because they knew that a simple boring combat system would appeal to the wider range of people.
If they can keep the combat challenging enough to keep you wanting to engage enemies it's a good system, I was actively avoiding enemies in the witcher 3 because I didn't really want to do the same parry - block - sidestep routine again.
>>336649591
>Aonuma must die
Edgy as fuck
Also,
>LoZ was the best game on NES. ALttP was the best game on the SNES. LA was the best gameboy game and OoT was the best N64 game.
Shit taste, Sen
>>336649591
>ALttP was the best game on the SNES
Not by a long, long shot, Terranigma was better - even Illusion of Gaia was.
>Yet how many people even talk about or remember Dragon Slayer
Everyone who isn't an American who was indoctrinated by Nintendo whilst they broke the law repeatedly in an attempt to keep a stranglehold on the industry.
>>336649780
I told you to die, Aonuma.
>>336649208
Skyrim didn't help to popularize shit
GTA games were the influence of tons of games just by going to their similar style, Sleeping Dogs, Saint's Row, Mafia, Watch Dogs, Crackdown and many more
>>336649878
sorry Malstrom, I'm gonna live forever
>>336649384
I can't get into any bethesda game. I tried morrowind, oblivion and skyrim and found them all to be so goddamn dull, the combat, the skills, how in oblivion the magic system was big red ball, bigger red ball, biggest red ball, now recolor them for other elements, how arrows in it behaved like fucking rubber rods.
They're just so poorly done on so many levels, it really boggles my mind how popular they are, because they're just lacking on so many fronts.
>>336649876
We all know that Super Metroid and Megaman X were the bets games of the SNES
>>336649581
I reiterate.
Are you fucking retarded?
Fucking OoT popularized open worlds on the console long before Skyrim and GTA were even things.
>>336645621
>>336650342
OoT is not open world
>>336645621
>In gaming today, you need a great story when your game is not a platformer and Zelda hasn't got one
But you just said
>While multiple other series have come and gone that have done things better than Zelda in myriad ways (Dark Souls
>Dark Souls
>great story
>>336650405
What good games has Carmack made in the last 15 years? Just saying, I know his impact is huge, but he's largely irrelevant like Romero is these days.
>>336650342
>Fucking OoT popularized open worlds on the console long before Skyrim and GTA were even things.
The original Legend of Zelda popularized open worlds on the console long before OoT. Ultima popularized open worlds in video games long before the original LoZ.
>>336650443
It was for its time. You could do side quests and shit.
>>336650681
It was more structured like a RPG than an open world
>>336648462
>You can't find a more nonlinear game than even Twilight Princess these days (I will let you have Skyward Sword), much less a better one.
I think people are being way too hard on them. Don't get me wrong, the company makes a lot of questionable decisions, and I won't disagree with that, but some of you act like they're incapable of making anything good or solid anymore. I'm not saying Zelda Wii U is a good game necessarily (but it's not a bad one either), and perhaps it's better to go in with lowered expectations, but it feels people want to go in with such hate towards it.
>>336650742
That's why the series is still relevant to this day. Its got the combat of an action game with the structure of an RPG with minor open world stuff like side quests with actual optional content (as in they aren't just "kill X numer of X things")
>>336650405
This. You have some games like mass effect and those tale tale games but I've never heard a single word about their gameplay. Then you have your mad maxs where it's pure explosion porn.
Minecraft, angry birds, those shitters like farmville. Most people don't care about story. Great if it's there but not important. Some people play games just for the story but some people voted for Hitler so, whatever. I'm drunk
are the oracle games good?
>>336645621
This screenshot is so ingrained in everyone's head now. Rightfully so as it's the only screenshot we've ever got.
Imagine playing the final game and coming across that rock at the bottom of the screen. What a feeling.
>>336650579
He is irrelevant, yes. His quote, however, is spot on. Games are an ideal medium for telling a story. Movies. books and tv are there for that. Games are an ideal medium for GAMEPLAY. If they tell a story too, great, but story is hardly a requirement.
>>336650553
Dark Souls at least have lore and characters. And Zelda, Linku save princessu Zerudu, Ganon at it again.
>>336648764
Oh look it's the autist with the collage images that bitched about Xenoblade and video games being violent again.
>>336651110
His name is ACfag.
>>336651076
>His quote, however, is spot on.
He made mindless shooters, not complex open world rolepaying games.
>>336645621
>>336649079
>considering they set the standards for adventure games all the way from the mid-80s to the early 2000s.
King's Quest predates TLoZ by three years, idiot.
>>336651231
I know that fuck face, read what I wrote, just because something was first doesn't mean it matters.
>>336648240
>Mediocre.
I don't understand the overuse of this word.
When a clearly bad Nintendo game comes out, nobody defends it and everyone calls it bad.
When a clearly shovelware Nintendo game comes, nobody defends it and everyone calls it bad.
But when a good Nintendo game comes out. people call it "mediocre". Not good. Not great. Mediocre. It sounds more like a insult then a compliment really. Which makes it seem like even when Nintendo makes good games, they can't please anybody.
What are people comparing them to, to call them mediocre?
I've seen people call Tropical Freeze, and Robobot mediocre already, and those two are some of the best games in their franchises to come around in a LONG TIME. Is it because of some fear of disappointment, or fear of being over hyped on something that isn't worth it? I just do not get it.
>>336651014
Yes.
>>336650342
>OoT
>open world
>>336645621
You know what is worse than Nintendbabies?
Retards like you who for some reason come to game designed for children and complain it's for children. Do you also watch cartoon network and whine how there is no quality writing or good character development in any of the shows?
>>336650212
>it really boggles my mind how popular they are
$$$$$$$
>>336647592
>Discovering small pieces of land with nothing on them was a blast
I genuinely do not understand exploration fags, I could make a maze game and probably you autists would love finding every dead end.
>>336649593
>Devs should be ripping that game off more but they won't because making a game of that size with that much content with that kind of gameplay is hard work.
You're one delusional sap if you think OoT has more content than the average AAA RPG.
>>336650968
>Minecraft, angry birds, those shitters like farmville. Most people don't care about story.
>>336647731
As a different SSfag myself, I have to say the only game I've shitposted is toilet princess, and for good fucking reason. There's not even anything TO shitpost about on the new zelda aside from some vague alpha E3 footage. At least wait for this years presentation to start that shit.
>>336646493
Fags like this can't even get their shit straight, because everything he's describing is toilet princess. Out of all SS's problems(fi being stupidly intrusive, empty sky, no connected underworld) the worst he can say is it's a "rehash". Even with item crafting/durability, stamina, new theming, and the very control system he mentions, that's all he bitches about.
>>336651093
I wish I could re-post this pic because holy shit
>>336650759
Seriously what
>>336645621
I could shitpost about your shitpost for hours, but other anons have already said basically everything I want to say already. However, I'd like to point one thing out here.
>Zelda - despite encompassing a multitude of games with a grand legacy, has a piss poor story, and fans have simply glued pieces together like a conspiracy theory
Now hold the damn phone
Piecing together the story to a game is FUCKING AWESOME. I think its probably a matter of taste, but I fucking LOVE things like that. Example: TES. I've only played skyrim and taste-tested the others so I wont claim to be any kind of expert there, but if you ask here about the lore behind the series and an explanation on what is happening with things like the dwarves, the final boss of morrowind whose name escapes me (think CHIM), miirak's plan in skyrim's dragonbirn dlc, or just about the godhead/ universe lore in general, you're gonna find the dankest shit of your life and there is no point at which ANY of it is directly presented to the player. It's all in the books and small references characters make. That sort of literary dissection of a story is fucking awesome. From what I understand, the souls games do something similar (not sure on the details there myself either). Hell, literary dissection of themes and elements of those themes are one of the biggest reasons why people read Shakespeare (or pretty much anything, I guess).
As far as Zelda goes, I'm hyped as shit for Zelda U, praying that aonuma has learned to get his shit together, although I'm probably being woefully optimistic.
Tl;dr- Aonuma needs to get his shit together this time. Take your pessimistic, uninformed shitposting somewhere else.
>>336651830
Exactly, if people cared about story, why would such a shit, meme filled, ripoff be so popular?
>>336651580
AAA RPGs have more content because most of it is weapons and armor with minor stat differences and side quests that are MMO tier (gather/kill X number of X). Zelda games always have good content like a sword that functions differently or fire arrows. The biggest weakness though is there aren't enough good rewards for the good side quests, its usually a piece of heart or a bottle for the most part. Then there's the fact the game plays like a regular action game, which means that a good amount of time has to be devoted to designing enemies. Each dungeon is visually distinct and has its own puzzles and usually an item that is used in that dungeon plus they all end with a bossfight. All that is way too much actual effort for modern game dev hacks.
Wind Waker is best Zelda. Bonus points for Link who can show emotions, genuine humor, timeless graphics, and being self-contained.
>>336651321
>implying King's Quest isn't regarded as one of the industry's biggest milestones and wasn't the title that singlehandedly made computer gaming a remotely known thing in North America
>>336648240
Are we to believe the industry isn't currently swarming with incompetent shit right now?
Is this what you're trying to tell me? Have you looked at all this indietrash spewed all over every digital market? Have you SEEN the fucking piss poor quality of modern "AAA" releases? Just because a game isn't literally the best doesn't make it mediocre.
>>336650742
zelda is an adventure game and not a rpg
It feels like it's been a long time since we had a Zelda game that felt like genuine progression for the series. Everything just feels so trapped and bogged down by "tradition", when I think what the series really needs is for someone to just reimagine it with modern capabilities in mind.
I know plenty of Zelda fans would want to crucify me for saying it, but I don't see why the series can't be modernized a bit with things like more advanced combat mechanics, items having multiple uses, RPG elements, voice acting, etc. Instead we just get random gimmicks that add no depth.
>>336652640
>I don't level up so it's not an RPG
Fuck for sake, this place get dumber every day.
>>336652817
Why is it a RPG then?
>>336652224
Here's your (You).
>blah blah didn't read
I have enjoyed every Zelda I have played other than Phantom Hourglass, and even that wasn't really a bad game. I'm sure I will enjoy this one aswell.
Still, I am not very happy with Nintendo and I plan for Zelda U to be my last Nintendo purchase. I have no interest in NX, unless it can literally suck my dick
>>336652775
>items having multiple uses
They do in most games
>RPG elements
Like what? Level up? Zelda is not anyways RPG, but crafting could be a good addition.
>Voice acting
This adds nothing to the game and only increases the cost of production
>>336652881
Games where you play the role of a character aka Link.
Which is why is such a mediocre game since it gives him no story or characterization at all.
>>336653210
So most video games are RPG's by your definition?
>>336653282
No because RPG gameplay surround action or turn based combat with a hub-world or open world.
>>336653210
So every game with characters then?
go bait someone else, faggot
>>336645621
Games have come to do things better... in parts. Other games have aspects that could improve Zelda. However, no other game has been a better Zelda in whole.
The dream is still for Zelda to make itself into the modernized grand version of itself. Because no one else will.
Was watching a movie but came back. Will address the questions because people asked nicely and I respect that.
>>336647731
One of the things that I like most about Zelda is that it isn't JUST exploration or JUST dense puzzles or JUST combat. It is a bit of all of those! And I appreciate that different games highlight different aspects of that. That being said, I am apprehensive about Zelda U being too open, because I already thought TP's overworld was a bit barren and boring for my liking. Open can be good, but its easy to fuck up. SS's "overworld" (not the glorified map selection screen sky world, the land areas), on the otherhand, was done pretty well (imo) because it was closer to a dungeon, and the SS team did dungeons really well.
>>336648810
As I mentioned above, I don't consider the lack of exploration to be a huge deal. The areas were fun to traverse and that was good enough for me. I never had trouble with the pacing, and when backtracking I generally felt like revisiting each area brought an interesting perspective to it, although I agree the tadtones were bullshit. I never had trouble with the motion controls and enjoyed them a lot, but I get that others disagree.
It is a game with really high highs and some pretty glaring flaws, exemplified by the bosses (some were amazing, some were admittedly horrible). I just felt that what it brought to the table outweighed its problems.
>>336653009
>They do in most games
Most items tend to just be for puzzles specifically built for them and not a lot else. Imagine if each tool had some kind of moveset attached and could be used for combat.
>Zelda is not anyways RPG
I think this is the sort of thinking that needs to be avoided. Any logic that begins and ends at "Zelda hasn't done that so it shouldn't do that" needs to stop. Not to mention it already had RPG elements like leveling up and increasing your abilities in Zelda 2.
>This adds nothing to the game and only increases the cost of production
I think a good performance can add a lot, not to mention it's just something that's basically been standard for most games in the industry for years.
>>336652775
Triforce Heroes, the most recent game in the franchise, isn't really the end result of a team beholden to "tradition". Just because they aren't changing things up in the way you want them to doesn't mean they aren't changing them up.
>>336653210
By this definition, Mario games are RPGs.
Sometimes, games aren't trying to be this central-protagonist focused dramatic story. They can be more about the adventure, and focus more on the characters the protagonist meets along the way. When you try to standardize the way stories are told, things get boring real fast.
Zelda is a fine series. Not exceptional, but fine. It's some easy fun, some nice regions, some tiny quests and a lot of stuff to play with for a dungeon or two.
The mixture of simple puzzles, some combat, nice bosses and a cute design are what keeps this alive for me. It's fine.
Not exceptional, not the best game ever, but not trash either. I've enjoyed every 3D Zelda so far, some more, some less. All games are somewhat above average, but none excels at anything.
That's what Zelda is to me and I'm okay with it.
>>336654002
>Most items tend to just be for puzzles specifically built for them and not a lot else. Imagine if each tool had some kind of moveset attached and could be used for combat.
Every single item has an use against enemies, just because is not some mayor effect dosent mean it's not there, you must think the megaton hammer in oot does nothing but smash hard switch.
>Any logic that begins and ends at "Zelda hasn't done that so it shouldn't do that" needs to stop
No, one thing is adding RPG elements and another is turning a game into a complete different genre, is just as retreaded as saying the new TES game should be an action games because the combat is lack luster in Skyrim.
>it's just something that's basically been standard for most games in the industry for years
Depend heavily on the genre and still is not a must, Zelda built it's image around a silent protagonist, it's part of the charm of the series, adding voice acting only breaks the illusion many think how the character should speak, increase the cost of production meaning less game content, we lose to much for the almost nothing we gain.
>>336649591
Super Metroid was a better first party game on the SNES, fite me ALttPfags.
>>336653210
Holy fucking shit, no.
>>336654573
Does Star Fox count? It's technically second party, but that game kicks ass.
>>336645621
Ocarina and Mask were both genius in their interactive narrative.
You seem like a controversy baiting faggot of mediocre proportion.
>>336654052
I'm aware they're changing the series up, but a lot of these changes feel more like side steps than steps forward. Most of them aren't expanding upon existing things in meaningful ways, or adding new things that will be around beyond that single iteration to be expanded upon in later entries.
>>336654002
>Zelda games have RPG elements because 1 game out of 500 had them
>>336654617
>Star Fox
>second party
>Creator: Shigeru Miyamoto
>>336654771
My bad, confused it with Argonaut developing Star Fox 2.
>>336647578
Well, that being true or not, i agree with it.
>>336654546
>just because is not some mayor effect dosent mean it's not there
Major effects are what I want. I'm talking about big changes here.
>one thing is adding RPG elements and another is turning a game into a complete different genre
It's just an example of how they can expand on what they already have. It doesn't even necessarily have to be gaining experience and leveling up, it could be any number of ways of upgrading or progressing in the game.
>Zelda built it's image around a silent protagonist, it's part of the charm of the series
All of this talk about Zelda's image and Zelda's charm just sound like excuses for it to never change, and anything about it being unnecessary or increasing production costs could easily be applied to things like having good graphics or an orchestrated soundtrack, but I'm sure many would like those things or consider them important.
>>336649876
>Illusion of Gaia was better
Now that's plain shitposting.
You're not wrong OP. Zelda hasn't moved on from the formula OOT made and TP perfected. That was good for 1998 era consoles, but it doesn't hold up 20 years later.
Right now Zelda can't figure out if it wants to be an open world exploration game (ala modern TES) or a puzzle game. There really shouldn't be such a sharp divide here, but the people making the game won't deviate from the puzzle dungeons but also won't deviate from having a closed overworld. The game also doesn't want to be an RPG, either, because that would require numbers and statistics.
And the biggest problem with Zelda NX is that it'll be on the NX, not the Wii U. Nintendo's core group gets smaller every generation, and this stunt makes it worse.
>>336646210
>>336646451
TES is an action adventure series, not an RPG. Post Skyrim (which came out a week before Skyward Sword) this is what the series is. It's not right (fuck casuals) but with TES being streamlined, it's basically what Zelda should be.
>>336645621
I kind of agree with you OP, I used to be one of those "lol even the worst zelda game will be leagues better than any other game" drones who put the series on a pedestal, skyward sword finally disillusioned me and I realized how far behind the rest of the industry the series was. I have nothing but low expectations for Zelda U, as I HIGHLY doubt it will have an open world that is even Dragon's Dogma tier, let alone something truly good. Plus the gameplay will be just as uninteresting as ever and the gameplay options will be more limited than the witcher series even by quite a bit I can only imagine.
Basically every other open world game has been doing this shit for AGES, and I dont see Nintendo, who can barely do anything right lately when it comes to making games, surpassing what has been being perfected by their competitors for the past decade, on their first attempt.
>>336655724
Nope, Skyrim is a very casualized RPG. Also it's fucking boring, has bad combat and so many problems, Nintendo should stay away from that cancer, even if the zelda series has declined, they have absolutely nothing to learn from Bethesda's games.
>>336655724
You're a special kind of retard.
>>336652047
>this much damage control
I'm totally fine with piecing together a story but it has to feel like it's all supposed to fit together. Zelda has never had an overarching plot and suffers because every game is the same plot as a result.
>>336655947
It's an RPG that has been casualized into an action adventure game. It's not a good action adventure game but that is it's goal. It achieves that goal better than Zelda.
>even if the zelda series has declined, they have absolutely nothing to learn from Bethesda's games.
If Zelda wants to go open world, then yes they do. Skyrim, for example, has more than one town. There are also different armors for different factions, and guards in each town that keep a bounty on you if you commit crimes there. It's not much but if Zelda wants to be an open world action adventure game, then these are the things that it should copy.
Of course, Zelda doesn't have to be open world at all. In fact there's a strong argument that the overworld could be done away with entirely and the entire game can be puzzle solving dungeons. Obviously nothing can be learned from TES here, but my point is that there are many different directions the series can go in.
>>336656612
nevermind what I was going to post I'm just going to repeat what >>336656001 said, you are a special kind of retard
dude would i tell if you if i can going heard you can though? >you were cannot
>>336645703
/thread
first responce is always best
zelda was never good
>>336646493
I'm sorry you're a retard
>>336647216
Because it is a good game, you're too fat to use the controls properly
>>336645621
Back in my day the b8 was at least good.
>>336647731
I thought it was alttp fags shitposting about zelda WiiU for not being alttp
>>336646210
>that would take focus away from the dungeons, which Zelda excels at.
But it doesn't none of the dungeons come close to begin as imaginative as the overworld's typically are, and I have no idea why people would claim otherwise. The dungeons are restrictive and repetitive where the overworld quests are open, creative and varied.
>>336656612
>the overworld could be done away with entirely and the entire game can be puzzle solving dungeons
So, SS. Fuck everything about that. Zelda should do the opposite, gut the dungeons and put everything in the overworld. How would you object to that? Even then Zelda wouldn't have much to learn from TES.
>>336645621
>garbage like Hyrule Warriors
Get the fuck out
>>336651325
I personally think Bayonetta 2 was a step above the original, an improvement, even if it was a little easier; but people called it mediocre compared to the first.
They even defend Shadow of Mordor being a better "action" game than Bayonetta 2.
I can hardly find a discussion forum on the internet that doesn't criticize my stance on that.
>>336646493
>>336659591
Jesus why does every goddamn SS fan fall back on the "YOU'RE FAT" argument whenever they feel threatened by someone not liking the game?
Like you simply can't accept that maybe the loads of people that dislike this thing actually dislike it for legitimate reasons and you feel compelled to make up excuses because there's little else to use to defend this game.
>>336648810
>Lanayru Desert
What in the world do you people see about this area that I'm not seeing? It's just filled with stamina draining sand everywhere you go so you either have to pack a bunch of potions or you're stuck recovering stamina every couple feet, cutscenes known as Timeshift Stones for puzzles, an area where the shortcuts are gained ages later due to getting the Clawshots, and asshole enemies like the shrimp and the birds.
>the water system
But swimming is by far the worst part of the game on par with flying the bird. Constant flicking, a left stick that stays unused, and it's even part of an entire area later on to make you hate it even more. Unless you're talking about the sand ocean, then it's just cool visually but boring to swim though since everything can be avoided and the only thing you ever have to actually shoot is the ship itself.
>volcano
Worst area in the game. You're sent down to the base of it three times, one of which is an escort mission and one of which is a stealth "get your items back" mission. Getting anywhere requires dozens of dead Moblins since they never leave you alone and you have to kill them to climb the walls, shortcuts that don't really save you much time at all, and barely any bugs. Tadtone forest is the only thing worse.
>>336652269
Is that why King's Quest is inducted into the Video Game HOF?
>>336656068
That's fair. I mainly meant to argue against him using it as a negative point. At the end I kinda lost track of what I was saying and went with "fuck you man"
>>336645621
>In gaming today, you need a great story
Fuck you and people like you, story is not mandatory in a game, good gameplay is, which I hope this Zelda will have.
>>336659861
Insecure much, fatty?
>>336652239
This is why I resent the games being called 'simple'. It's easy to make a super complex game with fuckhuge numbers of stats when most of the result is interchangeable. In Zelda, most everything is totally unique and design tailored for the context in which it functions. Meanwhile, the whole word has to be designed around allowing highly specific things to be possible, while taking into account everything the player can do at any given point.
>>336651579
>Discovering small pieces of land with nothing on them was a blast
WW's exploration is garbage for this reason. What actually makes Zelda's exploration great is not simply stumbling upon new things, but the way you can keep coming back to old areas and discovering new things, seeing the world in new lights as you progress and realize things were staring you in the face all along.
>>336652775
>>336654002
>Most items tend to just be for puzzles specifically built for them and not a lot else.
Have you like, even played a Zelda game, ever? Having multiple uses for shit is one of the things Zelda does best.
>more advanced combat mechanics
Zelda has some of the best combat mechanics on the planet, they're just ridiculously under-appreciated because the enemies are piss weak and have been for the past two decades.
>voice acting
Who cares? It wouldn't 'advance' anything, as the text does a more than adequate job of that.
>RPG elements
If you mean customizing stuff. Great. If you mean grinding, fuck you.
>>336645621
>it's another Soulsfags pretend Zelda should be like Souls shit episode
Are Soulsfags the worst fanbase?
>>336663063
Zelda shoudn't be "like Souls", but there's no denying that Souls does a ton of shit that Zelda would greatly benefit from in its current state. The freedom to wander into unknown and dangerous areas to see what you can find is something that Zelda lost long ago, it's impossible to get lost anymore.
>>336659985
The first area of Lanaryu is undoubtedly the worst due to the sand puzzles. Lanaryu does however have the distinction of being the only region to actually give you something new on every major visit.
And no calling Lake Floria a new area when it's a three room swimming tutorial is a misnomer.
>>336645621
I like what they've said so far though. This might be the fully-realized Zelda we need.
It remains to be seen if they'll live up to their words.
>>336663530
Even if you do get lost, there's no danger as all the enemies are piss easy.
>>336663640
>inb4 someone replies with Aonuma hatred
Reminder that he directed the 3D Zelda with the highest emphasis on optional content as his first directed Zelda project.
>>336663640
>It remains to be seen if they'll live up to their words.
I'm predicting Link will be the Hero of Men here.
>>336663652
Not to mention the dungeons having zero challenge past taking a couple of minutes to figure out some puzzle. If they're going to do non-linear dungeons then give it some challenge or stick to linearity and make them progressively harder.
>>336645621
I like playing the Zelda games. My favorite is Link's Awakening. I guess it might be my favorite because it's the only one of those games I would consider to have a "good" story.
I don't consider many video games to have a good story, though. But I understand where you're coming from, there. (Unless you want some epic bullshit with drama and junk.)
Anyway, I don't think the combat being simple is a valid complaint. It's meant to be simple. That said, I don't think a lot of the 3D Zelda have been great at being action games. A lot of the 2D games are fun action games, and that goes a long way for me. It's simple and fun. But 3D Zeldas have had this Z-targeting thing, lots of throw-away monsters. I think the game is still struggling to offer engaging 3D combat. I think Dark Souls leads as a good example, here. I'm not saying it has to be challenging, but a lot of Dark Souls weapons are really entertaining to use. They're "fun" because they have interesting warmups, cooldowns, and animations. I like the animations in Zelda, but I often feel like I'm just swinging. There's not much thought in how I engage with enemies. I would like that to change.
You're speculating about Aonuma and E3. It's not worth talking about those things. I don't work with the guy, and E3 doesn't mean much to the average consumer. Zelda has never pushed Dragon Quest numbers and Nintendo knows it. I think the fans are a bit delusional because their insistence on this game saving the Wii-U doesn't have a factual basis in history or Nintendo's messaging.
Anyway, looking forward to the next Zelda game. We'll see how much things change. I suspect they'll be looking toward Dark Souls more so than Elder Scrolls, though. At least, I hope so.
>>336663774
>Koizumi
>>336663640
Nintendo talk non stop shit and don't deliver - just like how with the last 4 consoles they promised they would avoid software droughts but they never, ever do.
>>336651110
>Oh look it's the autist with the collage images that bitched about Xenoblade and video games being violent again.
What
I don't have a problem with violent video games and I don't give a single solitary fuck about Xenoblade.
Zelda is shit now and that's why I posted.
>>336654625
Ocarina and Majora have almost no narrative you fucktard. One item description of a boss soul has more narrative than the entirety of OoT, the story of Zelda comes from pure autistic speculation.
>>336663530
Thats such a generic thing to say though.
And from what we've heard about this game, they really do want to make this like you can go anywhere you want from the get go.
After ALBW, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Much as I adore the ALttP formula of old, Zelda has been wearing it for far too long and in retrospect has been wearing out its welcome since around Wind Waker. Even Twilight Princess, my personal favorite in the series, has some serious cracks in its armor. Thankfully the devs have shown a modicum of experimentation here and there with SS's blending of fields and dungeons and ALBW's nonlinear dungeons and item rental system (though the latter's more revisiting an old idea that never got its fair due but whatever). There's been baby steps away from the ALttP template here in the 2010's, and I guess we'll see if this upcoming game is the next real step for the series or yet another baby step.
>>336664305
>DaS item """"lore""""
>not autistic speculation of the highest caliber
>>336664031
>I guess it might be my favorite because it's the only one of those games I would consider to have a "good" story.
ALBW? SS for the characterization at least?
>>336664440
ALBW pulls too many things for me to take it seriously as a story.
I could like SS a lot but it's the only Zelda game I've played fewer than 3 hours of (no room for wii controls at my place).
>>336649420
What >>336649646 said. It doesn't matter who did it first, the fact is that nobody remembers Dragon Slayer. But nice autistic fit there.
>>336648398
To be fair, he said 70%. And it's true that a LOT of garbage was being released.
>>336645621
The one thing that baffles me is that production costs are likely getting crazy but sales don't improve. I guess pokemon is the only reason this franchise can keep going in its current form.
>>336645621
>You literally hold the shield up and wait for the enemy to strike or expose itself like a dunce and slash or throw an item.
Hi Arin. Good to know you remembered the shield exists. Use it next time.
