So, how do the different giants relate to each other?
Gwyn's race were apparently some sort of giant, apparently different to Gough's giants, which might be different to the vagina face giants. Then there's Yhorm and his lot. Are they all distinct? Are they all the same?
Gwyn isn't a giant. He is just powerful.
>>336484152
don't think too much about size, anon.
>>336484152
Giants are a race, as explained in 2. Gwyn is just gigantic, being powerful does that to you
>>336484243
This
It seems physical size is connected to power in this universe.
They're probably all completely unrelated races and only called "giant" because they're pretty tall in comparison to other creatures
>>336484152
Yhorm appears to be the same race as the DS2 giants.
Could Chosen Undead have defeated Gwyn in his prime?
>>336484637
How the fuck would we know? Gwyn in his prime isn't in any of the games.
>>336484152
The only true "giant" races are the giants of Anor Londo, which vary ridiculously in size if one compares the giants of Sen's Fortress with the ones in the Cathedral of the Deep, and the faceless giants who invaded Drangleic, who are said to be from far, far away beyond the sea, and seem to be at least partially outside of the cycle of Fire, if you hold Dark Souls II lore in any regard.
>>336484521
Yhorm has eyes though, and an actual face, as shown in the cutscene where Siegward comes back to keep his promise. He only dresses like the Giant Lord, but I don't think he's a Drangleic giant himself.
It cannot be discounted that Yhorm might very well be just a normal man who's incredibly powerful and as a result, huge.
>>336484243
Then why are humans treated like a different race to the big guys?
Like Artorias asking if humans are all dark. It suggests humans are not the same as whatever race he is, which is obviously the same race as Gwyn.
>>336484521
Nope. He's only wearing a chainmail hood that gives him that appearance, he has a human face in there, like the DaS1 giants.
Honestly there probably isn't some DEEPEST LORE meaning, they redesigned giants in 2, decided it was sort of retarded, and ditched them in 3, the only DaS2 giant you see is a tree.
>>336485076
>Then why are humans treated like a different race to the big guys?
Gods.
Don't forget that Anor Londo is the city of the divinity and its elite is [was] all those primordial humans who assisted Gwyn and the other Lords in the war against the Everlasting Dragons. And yet godhood in this setting is mostly self-proclaimed.
Hell, the only difference between the gods and normal humans could simply be exposure to the First Flame.
Why don't you get bigger when you level up then?
>>336485774
A - Gameplay limitations
B - You're devouring souls to level up, not quite the same thing.
C - Who says you ever reach the level of power these beings had at their prime?
>>336485628
>Hell, the only difference between the gods and normal humans could simply be exposure to the First Flame.
But they would still then be a different kind of creature, so Gwyn isn't JUST powerful, he is fundamentally different.
"Giants" are not really giants, it's just the humans who are tiny compared to everyone else because they're descended from the pygmy.
>>336484913
It's certainly possible that Yhorm is just a big dude, but the way all the item descriptions talk about how the humans he ruled hated him despite how good he was to them makes it seem to me that they don't consider him human.
>>336486165
It depends on how far you're willing to bend the definition of human, really. Especially in a setting where the definition of human might not accomodate slightly larger but otherwise entirely ordinary looking people but DOES accomodate the abominations of Oolacile and Manus.
I wouldn't feel comfortable saying Gwyn and company are a different race if they were ordinary primordial humans at one point. They've just been... changed.
It's something that doesn't happen in actuality so it's difficult to pinpoint the exact limits of the difference.
>>336486508
He could also be a halfbreed. Not that unusual, considering Priscilla exists in the setting. He's also descendant of some ancient conqueror who apparently kicked everyone's faces in, so, you know.
i'm at anor londo's second bonfire by solaire. i do not have the dark seance ring, so i can't meet gywndolin. i can go back, get it, then come back to anor londo, right? i've played the game years ago, but i don't remember
>>336486873
Yes, or you could just acquire the Lordvessel first for ease of travel. I don't think it locks you out of it.
>>336486974
oh, yeah, that's right -- the lordvessel. completely forgot about that. thanks
Alright so let me get this straight.
>When the flame starts dying, it spreads a curse
>Anyone who has a fragment of the dark soul in them (humanity) becomes undead, meaning they will go insane (hollow) once they lose their humanity (Dark souls)
>The First Flame's tool Gwyn, created a church around sending people out to collect humanity to feed to the fire.
Right? So how is the Dark evil again when its the flame doing everything?
So that loincloth dude, wielding the katana, yeah so I pushed him off the cliff on accident. Can I never get that sword now?
>>336487109
The Dark isn't evil, but Fire is preferable if the dark Firelink Shrine is any indication.
>>336487109
The flame isn't doing anything beyond just growing too weak to keep the laws of reality working properly. Humans are reverting back into hollows because the façade of humanity falters as the Flame grows weaker and weaker, same with the sun who literally starts running out once the thing reach its latter stages. The Dark is still what runs rampant, spawns monstrosities and warps the world around it into an Abyss, and seems to be highly contagious.
>>336487285
Quit the game and reload, the items hould be on the ledge or close to where the enemy spawns
WHERE IS LAUTREC> HE KILLED THE FIRE KEEPER IN FIRELINK SHRINE. FUCK
>>336486571
>It's something that doesn't happen in actuality so it's difficult to pinpoint the exact limits of the difference.
But still Gwyn's race aren't associated with humanity, so excluding them from the definition isn't difficult.
>>336488175
Go to Anor Londo, to the big room in front of O&S
>>336488175
The eye will resonate inside the big chamber before the Ornstein and Smough fight, I believe. Use it there.
>>336484243
Gwyn it not a giant, Gwyn is a god.
>>336484152
They aren't giants OP, humans are justpygmys
>>336488267
It's associated by the degree that in the Age of Ancients they were all hollows, and there is never quite a differentiation between different types of hollows giving birth to different races once exposed to the flame [which, granted, is a plot hole once you start asking where the hell dogs and birds, and in fact giants too, come from, then].
Although, depending on how you look, you could just as easily say that GWYN and those like him are the primordial race and humans are the ones who have been changed once they've been granted Humanity by the Pygmy. So in a sense, humanity as a whole is the altered state, even beyond having the hollow state masked by the First Flame.
Giants are all the same race.
The ones in DS2 were going hollow because their flame was stolen.
The ones in DS1 had faces, as does Yhorm in 3.
>see lothric knight
>he's 2 or 3 feet taller than me
>slay him
>get his armor
>fits perfect
>Gertrude is Gwynevere's daughter
>Yorksha is Gwynevere's daughter
So, whatever happened to Flann?
>>336489004
>kick guy off ledge
>his body was holding 40 souls instead of just one
>>336487109
Basically the Fire feeds on Humanity (dark soul) and humans, when they are completely sucked out of their Humanity they start turning into wood, also known as hollowing (hence with the CU immediately turns into a hollow when dying, losing his Humanity, and only turns normal again when getting some) which also turn them crazy and makes them go towards the Fire probably to be consumed too since they are now fucking wood (the pilgrim butterflies being the most blatant example) or attack any other human that still has some fragment of Humanity left.
The Fire can feed on other creatures but always go haywire when directly fed with something that isn't human, just see what happened with Gwyn and Yhorm when they linked it.
Nashandra, as a bigger part of the dark soul perfectly knows that keeping the Fire up will just end up killing humanity, and thus tried to stop you from linking it. Gwyn, the LoC and SoC attacked you because after linking the Fire, they realized the truth about it: that it's just a bright parasite feeding on people.
When you give the eyes to the firekeeper she also realizes that losing the Fire won't plunge them into the Abyss like she was told but will just turn most of the world Dark, light will still exist, as you can see in the Untended Graves were some spots have natural light even without any fire around it. The Abyss is pretty much a place where the nightmares of humanity ends ups, it's not the Dark that the end of the Fire will spread.
>>336489136
>Yorksha is Gwynevere's daughter
If Yorshka is not Priscilla'sand Gwyndolin'sdaughter, then where does the fluffy tail comes from?
>>336489136
No wait, I meant to say Yorksha ISN'T Gwynevere's daughter, rather her sister.
>>336488790
>[which, granted, is a plot hole once you start asking where the hell dogs and birds, and in fact giants too, come from, then].
They came from the same place as everything else that wasn't just endless greyness and everlasting dragons.
Ether they popped out of the Fire, or Gwyn and his family created them.
>>336489136
Flann is going to be quietly rendered non-canon, is what will happen.
Is Yorshka Gwyndolin's wife/pet?
Why would a halfbreed recite the darkmoon oath when the lords are shit scared of them?
Why does nameless use the same moves as ornstein(including the buddy power sap) and has his armor?
Why are there trees flying?
How did Aldrich eat Nito?
why doesn't the chosen undead turn hollow/go crazy?
>People say they forgot about the Serpents
>Gertrude being visited by "an angel" led her to create a counter faith that threw the kingdom in disarray
>The only angel like being in the games before came from the Abyss
>One of the statues depicts one of the Serpents with wings
oy vey
Let's settle this once and for all.
Is, or is not, the Deep and the Abyss the same thing?
>>336489136
>So, whatever happened to Flann?
He's in the game, he rides a giant blue chicken.
You might've missed him, he's an optional boss.
>>336489736
>Is Yorshka Gwyndolin's wife/pet?
Most likely daughter
>Why would a halfbreed recite the darkmoon oath when the lords are shit scared of them?
Gwyndolin is the last Lord left, if he fathered her, that point is moot
>Why does nameless use the same moves as ornstein(including the buddy power sap) and has his armor?
Ornstein was his first Knight, and learned everything from him
>Why are there trees flying?
Who the hell knows
>How did Aldrich eat Nito?
Fanservice
FUCK BYRGENWERTH AND CAINHURST
HEALING CHURCH BABY
WE GOIN' ALL THE WAY THIS YEAR
>>336489792
He keeps popping humanity before he goes too far.
Also, who says he doesn't. Many players like to go around killing all npcs for their gear before NG+, that sounds like something a hollow would do.
>>336489842
There's just so many things wrong with that implication.
>>336489841
At this point, yes. Originally, no.
Something is said to have consumed the Deep and turned it from a peaceful and holy place into what you see in game.
>>336489736
Nameless uses the same moves because he too was part of the dragon hunters that Gwyn commanded, same as Orns.
Orns' armour is there because he left Anor Londo (before Chosen Undead came there, Ornstein is an illusion, Smough is real) to find and bring home the exiled Firstborn.
Read Ornstein's armour description.
>>336489792
He has purpose. People go hollow when they are driven to despair, the only crazy that doesn't go hollow in that game is Logan, because he goes mad with the Archive's knowledge instead.
>>336489842
Flann =/= Gwyn's firstborn
This is what happens when lore memesters of the like of vaati get to spew their shit-filled mouths around.
What the fuck is Untended Graves, really?
>>336484427
wonder why the PC doesnt increase in size over the course of the game.
>>336491120
How the fuck would that fit into the gameplay?
>>336492114
>you must be this tall to enter Anor Londo
GWYNDOLIN IS QT!!!!!!The same guy voices Lothric too
My shitty theories and questions:
>I think Aldrich is actually Nito, and i think that Nito wasn't the PILE OF BONES from DS1, maybe related to aura of darkness he had back in Ds1 (i'm implying Nito was actually the aura and not the bones)
>I think all the giants in DS2 were actually Hollow Giants, as in affected by the undead curse
>I think that by the time Ds3 takes place everyone had aknowledge the existence of Kaathe, and so they ruled over Londor with iron fist, making all the citizens pilgrim to their deaths in Lothric
Who the fuck marries Anri if you don't?
>>336493920
sore-ass
>>336489792
He does go hollowwhen you stop playing the game
>>336493920
Aldrich was Smough.
>>336494362
makes more sense than aldrich being fucking nito
>>336491079
It's firelink shrine of the past, specifically the era that Ludleth of Courland linked the flame. There's hidden dialogue you can get from him which confirms it.
>>336494473
The Handmaiden sells Smough's armour after you kill Aldrich, after all.
>>336494551
I did not know that
>>336494510
So why does it look identical to the current shrine? Where is the current Firelink Shrine geographically if Untended Graves is under Lothric?
>>336484243
makes more sense for them to be giants, otherwise what are the "furtive pygmies"? i always assumed that meant humans
>>336494902
THE LAND IS CONVOLUTED, SHITLORD
i honestly have no idea how it works, just that Ludleth implies it's in the past, and is the Firelink that he linked.
>>336494551
It also sells the Favor set after the Faithful Covenant, was Lautrec the deacon then?
>>336495035
No, picking his ring up triggers that. Wonder why his ring is there.
Ok, so why exactly did every NPC get their name altered? As far as i know the only one with his original name still intact is Kirk also Lucatiel's Masks says it belonged to a man
>>336489830
It hit me when I realized the Winged Fatty armor's helmet is based on Frampt/Kaathe's face.
>>336495765
WHAT
Mind posting a pic? I'm lost in some bigass mountain and everything loads too fucking slow besides 4chin
>>336495539
>A Hollow once fought valiantly with this mask, but feared the fading of her self, and implored a comrade remember her name.
>Perhaps that is why this gentleman's mask is named after a woman.
>>336496082
It's not obvious at first, but then you meet the 3 Glorious Winged Faggots on the roof of the castle and it's clear they're trying to be Angels.
Statues of the 'angels' can be seen through (winged Kaathe/Frampt).
Suddenly the nose and large smile on the helmet make sense.
>>336495539
Tsorig isn't Tarkus
Tsorig KILLED Tarkus, he's a Knight Slayer after all, and that's how he came to be feared.
>>336495539
No one had their name altered.
Siegward isn't Siegmeyer. They have the same mannerisms, but their personalities are different.
>>336496615
Damn I knew Tarkus was weak as fuck but shit getting slayed makes me sad.
>>336496907
>weak as fuck
Tarkus was originally supposed to invade you like Tsorig does, but he got removed because he was too hard.
>>336496615
Tarkus died in DS1, fell to his death in Anor Londo.
Tsorig didn't kill him.
>>336496758
I wasn't about Sieg since the most evident caracteristic of those characters is the armor and is like the uniform of Catarina
>>336497038
I doubt Tarkus could have done anything to us. He couldn't even make it Anor Londo. Props to him reaching Sen's Fortress though.
>>336484637
>could x character beat y character
Who fucking cares, you dumb faggot.
>>336497071
This
>>336496535
That likeness is a little bit of a stretch. I would think that if they were really trying to imitate the serpents they would atleast have the fleshstache, their most defining facial feature
>>336497278
Or a long necklike helmet as Smough
>>336497071
Tarkus died to gravity, then Tsorig pilfered his stuff and claimed he felled the knight himself
>>336497589
>>336497071
>>336496615
i just started using his shield at anor londo. i'll probably switch back to a lighter one once i need to start rolling and dodging again
>>336489736
>Why does nameless use the same moves as ornstein(including the buddy power sap) and has his armor?
It's when Ornstein dies that Smough's weapon gets imbued with lightning, if anything it would give more weight to the "The drake is Ornstein still serving his Lord" theory.
What happened with the izalith area?
All those dead demons. Were they killed by the various other creatures or was it a fading-flame sort of thing?
New art
Anyone got some cool stuff of Sulyvahn?
Giants as a race were never explained. They're a race of slaves, although they were also used in war against the dragons - apparently well enough that Gough became a Knight for his amazing marksmanship and leadership of archers under his command.
Most seem to be very stupid, but Gough was fairly intelligent, although the only example.
The weird thing is that all humanoid sapients in Souls are so because of one of four kinds of souls: the witches and their life souls, the humans and their dark soul, gods and their light souls, and technically nito, although he's a living death soul user. Giants don't fit into any of those categories, as far as anyone knows. There's no evidence of them having any human traits and there's no evidence of them having any godly traits beyond being enslaved by them.
Gods themselves are only giant when a) they're an illusion of fertility created by Gwyndolin (Gwynevere's statue is shorter than Gwyn, who is normal sized), or b) they consume a lot of humanity (dark souls/physicality), as in Smough's case.
Miyazaki just wanted giants. And couldn't be bothered to explain them.
>>336493098
>two traps in a single series and they both die
ITS NOT FAIR
>>336487109
The flame doesn't spread a curse.
What's happening is that when the flame fades, the dark soul grows in power. The dark soul is related to physical things, like the body. All dark magic has "weight" to it. The more powerful the dark soul, the more humans (dark soul users) will survive death and become undead. When the body dies, the soul seeks to return to its home, which is often a bonfire. Bonfires are extensions of the first flame, fueled with bones of the undead and humanity coursing into them, controlled by firekeepers. The soul returns to the estus of the fire, and the fire forms them a new body, although some of their humanity may be lost in the process.
That's what the undead 'curse' is. It's not a curse, it's just the natural consequence to the dark soul gaining power. Hollowing is just the body losing its soul over time, which is something that happens to undead when they die, or in special cases, like Gwyn burning his soul away to fuel the First Flame. That's why the "curse" goes away when the First Flame is rekindled - the fire grows, the dark soul's power fades, and the undeath process is stopped.
>>336498280
I was disappointed when Yhorm was only normal giant size. When I saw him in the opening I thought he would be huge.
>>336491079
It's complicated, and very obscured. Ludleth implies that somehow his linking of the flame was different from the rest. He didn't only become a Lord and made sure that the Age of Fire would continue, but he somehow changed history in doing that. Hell, apart from the Handmaid dialogue, it makes absolutely no sense at all for Untended Graves to be the past. Everything in there reeks of a future where the Flame has finally faded and there is nothing but darkness.
>>336489136
"Father" and "brother" and "sister" can not only be used in a royal context, but also in an adoptive one. People interpreting her lines literally are really fucking stupid. Gwyn was fucking dead long before she was born, not to mention whoever their mother was. "Father Gwyn" couldn't have had any other children. It's just a title.
>>336494510
>>336499102
My favorite thing about Untended Graves is how it's just behind an illusory wall behind an area past a garden. No time portal, no summon sign. It's just in a closet somewhere.
>>336484152
Gwyn and them are not giants, they are hollows that attained the power of the first flame. Power elevated them to god status. Giant workers seen in DaS1 are just that a race of giants that were dominated to become an endless workforce.
Giants from das2 are the descendents of archtres, hence why the give out seeds after death and become trees. Manus' descendents wanted to get giants all over the world again in preparation for the abyss so that equilibrium could be achieved. Endless crags and archtrees etc.
Humans are the same "race" as gwyn, just achieved a different power from the first flame. The power to fragment and spread.
Yhorm might be either something vastly different or just a big guy, No evidence either way.
The entire point is to get the world ready for the abyss and entropy
The great thing about all the unneeded character callbacks is that all undead perish when the undead curse is lifted when someone links the flame. That was the whole point of linking the flame in 1. Anastasia even mentions she'll be glad when you link the fire, as she'll finally be able to die.
All these undead people from 1 would have died either at the end of the game in 1, or whenever it was linked afterwards.
>>336499409
And its location actually makes some sense if you consider the High Wall's geography. In the Cemetery of Ash you more or less leave from some type of cove under the castle and if you mentally trace the steps you take from the High Wall to the Graves, it sort of fits that description.
Too bad that everything else between you fighting the Dancer and you reaching Lothric is a cluster of complete nonsense.
>>336498007
Probably killed by other demons, and the biggest baddest demon was the only one left (the demon king guy), that's why most of the dead demons make up the walls of his arena. That's how I took it anyway.
>>336499827
Different time peroid, different castle.
Kingdoms come and go like flys on shit in this universe.
>you never explore the castle above the cemetery of ash
>you never explore the snowy village nestled in the mountains
FRRROOOOOOMMMM
>>336498007
I thought they weakening with the Chaos Flame running out, then the wolf-creatures found a way in and slaughtered the rest. They look like they're just squatting inside the place.
>>336500278
>>you never explore the castle above the cemetery of ash
>>you never explore the snowy village nestled in the mountains
...but you do both of those things
One is Lothric Castle, and the other is Archdragon Peak
>>336501076
Wrong twice.
Snowy village is seen from vordts lookout, NOT the dungeon.
The castle is OBVIOUSLY different than lothric. Probably called ludleth since the fag supposedly magiced the whole thing anyways
>>336501284
>>336484243
Gwyn, artorias, ornstein, gwyndolin, nito, and such all belong to the race of the Lords. They're different from giants and humans.
>>336501076
>>>you never explore the castle above the cemetery of ash
That's Lotrich castle.
>>336503257
Up right corner between the mountain peaks area with some trees and buildings can be seen.
Not any area you visit in the game (yet).
>>336503713
>Up right corner
Exactly.
Probably a DLC area or scrapped but either way I NEED IT
>>336498561
Memezaki being transphobe confirmed. Someone call SJWs.
To be clear, Gwyn found a lord soul (along with Nito and The Witch of Izalith), which turned them into Lords. Prior to that, there's no way to tell what they were, race-wise, though it's likely that Nito wasn't human to begin with even though TWoI and Gwyn seem like they might've been.
>>336484152
Gwyn was a god, Gough was a giant. there is a difference.
Why was there a painting of Nashandra in the room with Gwynevere's painting?
>>336494902
The exact same place.
Just look at the real firelink next time you go there
>>336498852
This, especially with colossal bosses like Greatwood and Wolnir I was hoping one of the Lords would be giant like that.
So the Unkindled you play as in 3 is canonically stronger thanthecjosen undead right? He beat the souls of all the lords of cinder but at the same time the for was dying so that might be why.
Artorias and the other "big" people are described as demi gods.
Gwyn and his children are "gods".
Smough was half giant, and is siblings with Gough, making him half giant.
The giants in DS2/3 are just giants.
Thoughts to explore further:
>Why did Gwyn want to kill off the Everlasting Dragons? Were they a threat to Humans/Other Races? Did he merely want their souls in order to further kindle the flame?
>Gwyn created the curse of undeath to extend the age of fire (inadvertently or explicitly), but we don't know why extending the age of fire was so important to him, nor why it'd be important to keep it continuing after his hollowing.
>Those jew-snakes are up to something, goddamn it.
>Nito being canonically killed in DaS1 but seemingly being part of Aldrich in DaS3 suggests that DaS3 might be a dimension/era wherein the CU didn't succeed in his quest to link the fire. There're clear references to all of the lords of Lordran, but none of the ones from Drangleic.
>>336499430
I would consider Humans, Gods, Witches and the dead to all be their own race, while they all belong to the same species, Hollows.
Hence why only humans can use the power of the Dark Soul, but Gods can still hollow.
>>336505331
Nito was still in some way active after 1 though. The Malfanito show up in 2, and his soul is still around in a different form. Aldrich may have just eaten his body or whatever was left of him.
>>336505282
>Smough was half giant, and is siblings with Gough, making him half giant.
source?
>>336489348
Doesn't Yorshka refer to Gwyn as her father?
And don't most people think Priscilla is the Daughter of Seath and Gwynevere?
Priscilla got knocked up by her grandaddy
>>336484152
>Aldrich devouring the remaining gods
>eating Gwyndolin, having assumed his form and moveset
>you can still see Gwyndolin being eaten alive
>>336505331
First of all, the great souls that the 4 lords found all still affect the world even if they're gone. But that doesn't matter because Aldritch didn't eat Nito, he doesn't have anything of Nito. Aldritch eats people and attaches their bodies to his, that's why he might seem similar to Nito in appearance. But think about, his whole motif surrounds him eating Gwyndolin and taking his face and power, isn't that kind of secondary if he ate one of the Lords?
>>336506101
Theres no way a giant fucking blob could beat Gwyndolin right?
Who was the asshole that weakened Gwyndolin
>>336490256
There are a lot of sore ass posters around that are unhappy with the reveal of Gwyn's firstborn not being Solaire.
>>336484913
>It cannot be discounted that Yhorm might very well be just a normal man who's incredibly powerful and as a result, huge.
Given that Siegward seems so unhappy with his task of killing Yhorm, and that he addresses him as his old friend, I assumed that he and Yhorm once fought alongside one another for the great land of Catarina. Perhaps Yhorm was promoted above him and achieved far more than Seigward was capable of, eventually leaving on his own campaign.
>>336506292
Geez. Solaire is cool and all but him being the sun's first born would be trash tier lore.
I like him a lot better as a random strong fuck that was from the Chosen Undead's age.
>>336506101
I like the idea of him assuming Gwyndolin's form purely for the mental image of Gwyndolin proceeding to eat people whole after that.
>>336506384
Yeah, it can. The weapon you use to kill him, Stormcaller, specifically affects giants.
>>336506491
huh, well that throws that theory out the window, I suppose.
>>336498561
at least one got to fuck his brother
>>336506241
Gwyndolin's a cool villain, but he's kind of a weakling.
And Aldritch is a Lord of Cinder, not only that but one who became a Lord of Cinder by his shear strength alone. He takes Gwyndolin's own dinky spells and turns them into monster spells.
>>336506570
Sorry, got the name wrong.
http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Storm+Ruler
But yeah, it specifically affects giants and was given to humans by Yhorm to challenge him.
>>336489736
How do you kill the Lord of the Dead?
So, where are the Primordial Serpents in DaS3?
Why doesn't Frampt just give you a lift to the Kiln?
Why doesn't Kaathe come to your coronation as the Lord of Hollows?
>>336506648
Gwyndolin in DaS 1 would have obliterated slug man, he could teleport around and I don't see aldrich dodging his one shot magic blasts
>>336506765
maybe they're dead by this point?
>>336506765
Nobody knows, but there're statues of one of them with angel wings on the bridge where you fight the Dragon Slayer Armor.
Why does Gwyndolin have snake limbs? Did Gwyn pork Kaathe's serpent gf?
>>336506765
They are handling bidness in another region. Thats why Yuria was sent to lead us to the lord of hollows ending in place of the Primordial Serpents.
>>336506868
Kaathe, at least, is still giving Yuria orders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FsiX_xkjuQ
Only lore video worth watching
>>336506820
Aldritch can teleport too. And he's got a big life hunt scythe to chop gods up and eat them.
>>336506868
Possibly, but if you kill Yuria, she says 'Kaathe! Forgive me!', implying that she's a current servant of his.
>>336506930
Source?
>>336498280
Is this good?
>>336506930
what could be more important than the Linking of the Fire?
I've got all of these Cinders of Lords within me, but I've got no way to get to the Kiln, I don't even know where it is! I need someone to give me a ride! Frampt pls
>>336506995
Hm. Maybe the serpents will play a role in the DLC then?
>>336506765DLC story
>>336485774
Presumably it takes a lot of time and a lot of Souls. Just like lifting bro, except you devour Souls instead of eating chicken tenders and protein shakes.
>>336506973
And Frampt is running the church of Lothric that drives crazy selective breeding to create lords of cinder.
>>336506995
>Source?
My big beautiful ass
>>336507071
Getting more able participants to link the fire or whatever the Primordial Serpents want these chosen ones to do.
>>336507062
why does he wear the mask?
>>336506820
His only real power is illusion and sorcery.
Both have obvious limits in combat because he only keeps the hallway illusion up for a few minutes until he stops. Aldrich just chased him down in the tomb and at his twink ass up.
Now he's wearing him as a hat.
>>336506891
possible meddling by Seath. We know Seath had some kind of fascination with moonlight before he went cuckoo for crystals. He made the moonlight butterflies and holds the moonlight greatsword. And snakes are imperfect dragons.
>>336507126
Exactly. Most people get to be a couple hundred levels. Giants, like Yhorm, are probably comfortably within the millions in terms of level.
>>336507172
any other would-be participants are now unimportant, since the finished product is here, and is currently stonewalled in their quest
if nobody helps them get to the Kiln, they may be forced to just sit and wait until the shifting world brings it to them, and who knows how long that would take...
![[PLOTTING USURPTION].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6ZApVJA.jpg "[PLOTTING USURPTION].jpg")
>>336507205
It would be very painful
am I crazy, or is there no Moonlight Great Sword in Dark Souls 3? Could they be saving it for DLC?
>>336507102
>DLC
>meet Kaathe
>find a illusory wall
>behind it isFrampt's corpse, chained to a wall
>the serpents weren't as allied as what was once thought
>>336503257
>>336501284
Shit quality but a bit related. You can actually see Anor Londo from High Wall just after you have defeated Vordt and then later at the start of the Undead Settlement.
>>336507420
naked drake's soul makes it
>>336487285
I did this too, but he lunged off. Warp out of Firelink and go back to where he was. His equipment will be sitting there.
>>336506868
Could be.
I have a theory with no real facts baking it that maybe it was Frampt who set up the Firelink shrine and it's system of firekeepper, handmaiden and smith to ensure that even without him people are guided towards linking the fire.
But that's just far fetched theory that has no dialogue or item descriptions backing it.
>>336494240
More importantly,if you give up on your character and never use it again/delete it.
>>336507420
You are crazy or haven't found Ocelot
>>336506891
Seath kidnapped him and transformed his legs into snakes as an experiment. Seath has a bunch of moonlight shit that he probably got from it.
>>336507420
Transmute the Soul of Oceiros
>>336507495
Naked drake? Hm, looks like I still have some bosses to hunt down. Good to know.
>>336507370
So let me get this straight:
Yorshka says that after Gwyndolin fell ill, Sulyvahn wrongly declared himself Pontiff, and jailed them both.
Does this imply that Gwyndolin was the original Pontiff of the Church of the Deep, and that Pontiff Sulyvahn usurped him when Gwyndolin fell ill? and that the whole "feed people to Aldrich until he can link the flame" idea was Gwyndolin's?
>>336484152
I think "gods" were considered a race, and in general bigger than humans but not quite as large as giants.
>>336507602
you'll know him when you see him
>>336506714
Too bad it only affects Yhorm and no other giant in the game.
>>336507254
Moonlight Butterfly and Gwyndolin shares the same music IIRC.
>>336485114
I think there was some implication that the asshole face giants were actually stone golems, but I could be wrong.
>>336507638
no, Sulyvahn converted to Aldrich's deep faith along with his knights and presumably slaughtered the rest of the city. Irithyll was moon worshippers, presumably devoted to Gwyndolin.
>>336498280
>>336507847
the Church of the Deep was around long, long before Sulyvahn, Aldrich came from Irithyl in the first place. Sulyvahn is just the Church's latest ruler, the Church has been around for multiple cycles
>>336507710
There are no other 'giants' in the game. There are giant enemies that people refer to as giants, but they're obviously not the same race as Yhorm or the Giants from DaS2.
>>336508185
>t-t-they aren't giants, they're just giants!
fuck off
>>336507780
>>336485114
OR
the DaS2 giants ALWAYS had real faces hidden within the depths of their head-holes, and we just never saw them.
Keep in mind that Yhorm also makes the exact same whale noises as the DaS2 giants do, it's not just his appearance that's similar
>>336507847
I was convinced that the inhabitants of Irithyll was not human due to their strange anatomy.
>>336507959
I'm pretty sure either Sulyvahn's soul or one of his swords or maybe some pontiff knight gear says that he was originally under Gwyndolin but joined the church of the deep and betrayed him.
>>336484913
>seem to be at least partially outside of the cycle of Fire, if you hold Dark Souls II lore in any regard.
Hold the fucking presses. You mean their lands are outside the cycle of fire or their existence is outside the cycle of fire?
>>336508326
nah, the Profaned Greatsword just states that he saw the Profaned Flame when he was a young man, and seeing it inspired his ambition to become Pontiff.
the other sword states that he's secretly a darkfag, and that's really it.
>>336508238
There're specific differences between the two, you goddamned mouthbreather. You can't just call a completely different race of creatures a name and then not understand why they don't operate as the actually specified race does.
>>336508442
DaS2 says nothing of the sort, the other anon is pulling your chain
>>336507420
boss transposition from oceiros
>>336508238
It's like with blacks and negroes.
Aborigines, South Indians, Africans, and all kinds of islandfolk are all black, but only Africans/Negroes are actually called “Black”
Just like that, there's a lot of giant people in Dark Souls, but only a certain group of them is referred to as “Giants”.
>>336508293
Plus, we weren't at a point in the age where Embers were a thing, and bosses are 'embered', which is why we'd see his face and not other giants' faces.
>>336508326
I've always felt that in settings with actual gods that walk around theology can be a bit funny.
Like, guy just walks up a god and is like "hey, you had a good run, but I go worship the sea or some shit, k thanks bye."
>>336508797
I don't think that Giants "ember," Yhorm only does because he's a Lord of Cinder
>>336508780
I feel like Indians (Native Americans) and Indians (people from India) would be a better example, but same basic idea, yeah.
>>336508887
That's what I meant. He was a boss -> he embered, not He was a giant -> he embered. Regardless, the reason we likely see his features and don't on other giants is because they're pronounced by his embering.
Got a question concerning the Throne of Want. Is it basically a tool to kindle the first flame remotely/snuff it out?
>>336508538
Nope. Your stupid theory is directly contradicted by the actual game. Get fucked.
So does Kaathe/Frampt control Lorian and Lothric?
I saw some statues in the tower before the stairs to their boss room.
Also, what's the deal with the handmaiden? why is she in the untended graves?
>>336484152
>Gwyn's race were apparently some sort of giant
There are absolutely, 100% never referred to as giants.
>>336509331
There's not a single place in the game that it's contradicted, and let me start my second point by saying fuck you faggot.
>>336509283
Throne of Want is the Kiln
>>336509451
So the location of the kiln can vary? Since Drangleic seems to be far away from Lodran/Lothric.
>>336509283
>>336509451
I thought the Throne of Want was one of the thrones in Firelink in DaS3 used to get to the kiln
>>336509335
Frampt has influence in Lothric, but it's unclear how involved he currently is with it -- he may have fucked off after Lothric and Lorian refused to become Lords of Cinder.
The Handmaiden in the Untended Graves is the same Handmaiden in Firelink Shrine, but in the past. If you REFUSE to talk to her until after you speak to her in the Untended Graves, she recognizes you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5mHuSFRzZM&app=desktop
>>336509536
I don't know if it's the literal kiln, or if it's a device that allows you access the Kiln of the First Flame, but it's for sure an actual throne.
>>336509536
>Drangleic seems to be very far away from Lodran
says who?
>>336509651
>but in the past
Actually, it only means that Untended Graves exists before Firelink. However, Untended Graves could be the present and Firelink the future.
>>336509805
the Coiled Sword shard states that it served it's purpose "long ago." In every game so far, item descriptions are written in the pov of the "present," which would mean that Dark Firelink is the past
>>336506891
>>336507254
>>336507546
Or it could have just been an illusion, like pretty much every single other thing regarding him. "I'm such a prancing lala homoman that nobody would ever take me seriously. My father didn't even commission a statue of me. I know, I'll give myself snake legs! Yeah! That'll make me more intimidating for sure! Then everyone will know how strong I am! I'll make Gwyn proud!"
So Andre is just... there?
He doesn't do shit except bringing up the giant blacksmith.
>>336484243
Gwyn IS a human (or was, at least)
The "normal sized" humans are actually pigmys.
>>336509959
he just likes smithing
>>336509923
No, the description mentions that it served its purpose as a bonfire long ago, and when you arrive in Untended Graves the bonfire there is already extinguished (for a long time).
>>336510045
>gwyn is human
no
>>336510196
So, why is the furtive pigmy a pigmy, all humans descend from him, so maybe, long ago, the human race was divided in two, the normal sized ones (Like Gwyn and the giants in Anor Londo) and the rest of the pigmys.
Right?
So is the cycle finally over after linking the fire this time? Or will it just go on and on? I know it's the last game but i really want to kill those fucking serpents.
>>336509409
>durr stormruler hurt giants!
>doesn't actually hurt giants
Retard.
>>336509805
the Bell rang in the outside world, along with Firelink Shrine.
Unless you want to argue that literally all of Lothric is in the future, then Dark Firelink is in the past
>>336510109
Or the only one who knows how to smith. Even DS2 had 2 smiths
>>336510329
Gwyn does not have the Dark Soul within him. He found his own Lord Soul within the flame
Humans are distinguished by the Humanity they carry in them, which was passed down onto them by the Pygmy. Not by their physical size. No humanity, not a human.
>>336510329
They're just trying to point out that man are fakken manlets compared to the likes of Yhorm
Why was Kalameet so feared by Anor Londo when Gough almost one shot him?
>>336489136
Gywnevere is Aphrodite
Meaning she fucked everybody
>>336509727
The fact that the lands around Drangleic are all different to the lands around Lodran, besides Catarina, which most likely meant that both countries bordered Catarina but not each other. And DS2 mentions a land to the east where katanas are come from, whilst in DS1 it's the "far" east, implying further distance.
>>336510551
he can make really annoying ear splitting noise
>>336510329
Everyone was once a hollow. The only thing that made Gwyn a "god" was a Lord soul. If you stuck Gwyn's soul in any other hollow, they would be a "god". God doesn't really mean anything in the DaS universe. It's more of a self-proclaimed title than an actual race.
>>336508835
Well the gods are also not that amazing.
Sulyvahn is the one who trapped Gwyndolin so Aldritch could eat him, it was more than just a change of dogma
>>336510551
Because Gough wasn't in Anor Londo anymore.
>>336510593
but Lothric doesn't have any of Lordran's geography, either.
Ages pass, and landmarks shift and disappear
>>336510632
So I guess size has nothing to do with power then?
Before getting the Lord Souls was Gwyn just a bigg nigga? Like, a race different from pygmys?
>Gwyn's, Artorias, Smough race (I.E. NOT a God)
>Pygmys/Humans
>Giants like Gough (Or are they the same race as Gwyn?)
>Giants, like the ones fron DaS2
>>336510781
Actually, you'd be surprised. Someone posted screenshots of the geography around Lodran and Lothric and a lot of it matches up roughly. We also still have locations from Lodran in Lothric, such as Anor Londo itself, Lost Izalith and more references to people and places from DS1 in general, such as Darkstalker Kaathe, the mushroom men, Dusk of Oolacile as a tree, the corpses of the Witches of Izalith etc.
>>336510948
SIZE HAS NO LORE SIGNIFICANCE
FROMSOFT MAKES HUMANOIDS BIGGER TO MAKE THEM A MORE INTIMIDATING FIGHT
HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO KEEP REPEATING THIS???
>>336510971
>implying that Eleum Loyce isn't Anor Londo
>>336510948
No, size has EVERYTHING to do with power. I'm saying before Gwyn acquired his Lord soul, he was a normal hollow. The same size as any other "human".
>>336484152
So Gwyn is alive by Das3 but is eaten by Aldrich when the player encounters him.
How is Havel alive? How is Ornstein's armor alive but not Smough's? What happened to the protag from 1? Did he link the fire?
>>336511143
>SL1 is the same size as SL800
Nope.
>>336511127
But it clearly isn't. The Boreal Valley is just that, a cold-ass valley, whilst Eleum Loyce was far to the North of everything and was built to contain the chaos beneath it, the city wasn't there before.
>>336511030
Coming from a game that expalins so little, yet so much at the same time I'd expect there to be a reason for it other than "The devs just did it", but, of course, a lot of the lore is quite obscure and left to interpretation,but something that I think should be very important to the lore (the size) shouldn't be just because, hell, Anor Londo has two set of stairs, for humans and giants.
It's odd, do they ever explain if Gwyn was a giant before taking the lord soul? I'd say that but the Witches were pygmy-sized, so what's the deal here?
>>336511242
>How is Havel alive?
Most likely just a dude in his armor
> How is Ornstein's armor alive but not Smough's?
That's not Ornstein, just another dragonhunter. Ornstein seems to have died on Archdragon Peak looking for Gwyn's son.
>>336511242
GwynDOLIN WAS alive somewhat recently prior to DaS3. But he's now Aldritch's favorite lollipop.
There's nothing that says that is actually Havel. It could just be one of his knights. They all wore the same thing.
Ornstein was more powerful? I dunno, anon.
Canonically either Chosen Undead did, or Solaire did if you chose not to. So 50/50 chance, I guess.
>>336511365
>what are gameplay contrivances
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwFA2VdCGcY
posting best boss theme
>>336511479
Gameplay is far more important to the lore than some dumb item descriptions.
>>336511472
But Ornstein would've died in the battle with the protag form DaS?
>>336511712
It was an illusion.cuz Miyazaki is a hack
Also the Ornstein in DS2 was just a fanboy.
>>336511576
I'm not arguing that. In fact, that's exactly what I'm saying. Instead of having the PC follow the same rules as everything else and fucking up actual gameplay, they just have you stay the same size despite everything fucking else getting huge from souls.
>be a person in the Souls universe
>get consumed by Chaos
>get consumed by the Abyss
>become Undead and hollow out
>be the victim of whatever evil atrocities people commit to keep the flame lit
are there any happy endings?
>>336511823
nope
it's as bad as warhammer.
>>336511712
CU canonically kills Ornstein first, and only receives Smough's soul
>>336511823
Well the land of Catarina was full of jolly happy people and known for its festivities. At the time of DS1 it also wasn't ravaged by the curse yet.
>>336511823
Living while the flame isn't dying.
>>336511823
The party-land of Catarina
>>336511797
Shouldn't Queelana and Havel be big as shit too? I assume they killed thousands and consumed a lot of souls.
