>rummage through dad's cd collection, he gave up on computers
>see thief 2, heard of it from somewhere
>why not, install the game
>first thought: lol gfx are pretty shit
>start playing 6pm last night until this morning
What the fuck happened to stealth genre? Shit's so much better than Dishonored and they came up with this 16 fucking years ago. I haven't been hooked with a game like this in a long time.
Word. I'll never understand why the genre withered and died.
>>336433305
some people hate experimenting and being patient.
It died because stealth games are inherently difficult. People cant handle difficulty.
>>336433173
Well first off it was made during a time where it was OK to experiment with new genres, vs now where you need something to be multiplayer focused / sandbox / corridor cinematic campaign to get green lit.
Secondly it was done by a small dedicated team, again, back when that was possible with what currently "up to date" graphics.
Thirdly it was done when a project like it could be pushed by a very small distribution network to players who wouldn't normally consider it in the first place.
Another thief could be made today (sans some of that better levels, planing those takes years of experience and an eye for architecture), but it would have to be indie and slightly retro looking. Not that that's a bad thing, imo.
>>336433638
> but it would have to be indie and slightly retro looking.
Not really, the visuals would be easiest part and there's a wealth of fucking awesome level designers already out there that have been putting out quality Thief content for years, finding competent AI, lighting and sound programmers would be the most difficult part, especially for a smaller indie team.
>>336433493
I don't feel it's mechanically super-difficult, I got spotted much of the time in the first two levels but then got slower and better. The second level took me ages because I didn't know how to work the big doors with them codes on it and finding those spice bags was even worse, but there were lots of clues in writing. Third level was so hard on expert that I had to restart and do it on normal.
>>336433638
The level layouts are what I love the most. No loading times, no linear paths. I would literally pay 100$ for a game like this with modern graphics.
>>336433173
This series has some of the scariest stealth I've ever played.
>>336433173
Just a reminder that Stephen Russell, the voice of Garrett, is voicing Corvo.
Dishonored 2 is literally more Thief and Thief 4
>>336434676
That sounds nice. He didn't speak in the first game, though.
>>336435096
I hear they're changing that for 2.
![2749133-batman+arkham+asylum+detective+mode+stealth+gameplay[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/w33NCHh.jpg "2749133-batman+arkham+asylum+detective+mode+stealth+gameplay[1].jpg")
>>336433173
>What the fuck happened to stealth genre?
Several different things.
1. It's slow paced. This turns off potential players, because they don't want to get "bored" waiting for the "fun."
2. It can be done poorly incredibly easily. The distance between good stealth gameplay and tedious-as-fuck trial-and-error bullshit is only a few molecules thick.
3. Even good stealth is often boring to watch. As such these games aren't made for today's "Built-in let's play/streaming features" market.
4. Most stealth games died in the early 2000's during the rise of multiplayer. And I can't remember a single stealth game that even tried any meaningful multiplayer outside of stealth-lite splinter cell.
Many players still liked stealth, but entire stealth games got canned. Instead, stealth sections started popping up in AAA games as a single map or area, something you did once in a game just to do it then you went back to combat.
Today I see it most often as an optional route. Something you can do if you want, but isn't necessary. Want to be stealthy in Skyrim, Batman, Hitman, MGSV? Go right ahead, slow down, be cautious, sneak up on people. Don't want to be stealthy? Get your guns out and start blasting, 100 100 100.
I doubt many studios are going to want to develop entire AAA stealth-and-only-stealht focused games going forward. It's a hard sell to publishers and players, so it's going to be something that you'll need indies to deliver.
>>336436402
>1. It's slow paced. This turns off potential players, because they don't want to get "bored" waiting for the "fun."
I thought that's the whole point of stealth.
>3. Even good stealth is often boring to watch. As such these games aren't made for today's "Built-in let's play/streaming features" market.
What about Amnesia? Not necessarily a pure stealth game but it does have a lot of storytelling and sneaky sneaky just like Thief.
I'm just really, really sad that nothing like this is available today and I'm sure there would be a market for stuff like this. I know a good game when I see one, even if it's old as shit. There's a lot more reading that drives the storytelling than cutscenes that would probably steer the kids away from it, but that's not honestly a bad thing.
>>336434676
>Just a reminder that Stephen Russell, the voice of Garrett, is voicing Corvo.
HOLY FUCK I LOOKED IT UP AND IT'S ACTUALLY TRUE
![17f460e0[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uvfJSP0.jpg "17f460e0[1].jpg")
>>336437457
>I thought that's the whole point of stealth.
It is, but that's it's biggest drawback to potential players. It's hard to tell someone they'll enjoy creeping around slowly, slinking around, hiding in rafters. I've had to do it with friends of mine, until they "get it" they're all completely convinced it's boring bullshit.
>What about Amnesia?
You know, I was going to mention it. It's got a lot of the ingredients of a stealth game, SOMA even more so. But I don't really consider them stealth games. Maybe I should, but when the dynamic turns from "sneak up on" to "hide and run away" it doesn't feel like the genre "stealth" fits to me.
Is it a stealth game if all you're doing is playing hide and seek with the enemies? I don't know, I'd have to think about it.
>>336434676
>Game Informer reports that Daredevil’s Vincent D'Onofrio and Rosario Dawson are among the cast members. Joining them are Game of Thrones’ Pedro Pascal (he played Oberyn Martel), Sam Rockwell (Moon, Galaxy Quest), Jamie Hector (The Wire, Heroes), and Gotham’s Robin Lord Taylor.
>Our male hero, Corvo, will be voiced by Stephen Russel, who was Nick Valentine in Fallout 4. And our female hero, Emily, will be voiced by another Fallout 4 player: Erica Luttrel, who was Darla.
Someone will probably be upset Chloe Moretz wouldn't voice Emily this time around.
I love the way maps work in thief. Combined with only getting limited information as well as having to use a compass plus ingame landmarks to locate where you are in a room is really fun.
Dishonored is good but really easy in comparison. I think on hardest difficulty there was only one part I found genuinely hard and that was the third level of the first dlc.
>>336438291
>It is, but that's it's biggest drawback to potential players. It's hard to tell someone they'll enjoy creeping around slowly, slinking around, hiding in rafters. I've had to do it with friends of mine, until they "get it" they're all completely convinced it's boring bullshit.
Fine. I really didn't think of it like that either when I installed the game, I initially just intended to try it for maybe 15 minutes or 30 minutes. But it's unbelievable fun. I can't put my finger on it, maybe it's the immersion (in a 16 year old game with bad graphics but it's still there). I'm sure that if let's players were to try it, the audience would try it as well.
I don't know, I'm just talking out of my ass.
>>336438958
>having to use a compass plus ingame landmarks to locate where you are in a room is really fun.
This, especially this. I mentioned the immersion but this is one of the major selling points. There's no minimap with an indicator pinpointing your location. I get lost all the fucking time but I think that's part of the magic of the game.
>>336433173
Stealth genre is a risky genre to develop games for, since there's multiple different ways to fuck a game up and lose a lot of money for just the smallest of mistakes during development. Thief and Thief 2 was lightning striking the same spot twice, and barely has a stealth or half-stealth game ever come within the same ballpark in terms of quality with these two games. They're by no means perfect, but they're definitely the kings of this niche genre.
It's not worth taking risks nowadays because current audiences have made it so there's a sure fire way to make money, so why bother taking the risky route with developing a stealth video game when you can play it safe and still make bank? So they add stealth in as a feature in non-stealth genres, or fill in the blanks with "stealth-action", so if you suck ass at stealth you don't take heavy repercussions for it and can even go through the whole game without sneaking for a millisecond.
Only way we can ever see stealth make a true return is through indie-shit, because AAA will never do the genre justice.
Anyone enjoy Payday 2 stealth?
Especially doing it solo. I can fail 20 attempts, but on 21st when i pull it off it feels so good.
Congrats OP. You've now realized why some of us "oldfags" prefer the games of yesteryear.
I have had similar experiences in the past few years, looking up old classics I missed back in the day. System Shock 2 became one of my all time favorites almost instantly, I hate Square for nevrr bringing Parasite Eve to EU , and I feel silly for ignoring Banjo Kazooie during its prime years. Just couple months ago beat the BLOOD for the first time, and it reminded me why I used to love shooters.
It's just painful to watch the entire industry eat itself out with the yearly update sequels to casual "games", that play themselves.
>>336440784
I used to,but I now hate just about everything about the game. Such wasted, ruined potential
>>336441014
Stealth gameplay only got better with updates imo.
>>336440884
>It's just painful to watch the entire industry eat itself out with the yearly update sequels to casual "games", that play themselves.
It pains me to think that all these games coming out these days all sort of feel the same, especially the shooters, which is why I'm looking into the past. But sooner or later the old games worth playing will run out if I'm looking for new titles to play.
Also, not surprisingly enough I saw System Shock 2 and Blood demo in dad's cache. Haven't tried either yet, but I have a pretty good picture what I'm going to do this summer on my off-days & rainy days.
>>336441521
Your dad's clearly a cool guy. You should give him a hug.
Those physical copies are already their weight's worth of gold. Take good care of them
>>336440784
>>336441014 pretty much summed it up to a tee.
After experiencing the "stealth" of Payday 1, I was excited to see how stealth would work in the second game when it was announced, but it didn't meet my expectations at first in the beta. Later on it got better, but it wasn't what I hoped for. Some heists worked pretty well and were fun to stealth through the first several times, but become a chore to go through. Gets even more pathetic when you find out that blocking eye contact from AIs means you're "covered", so you can ram your face into a guard railing and as long as you can't see the AI's face, it can't see you either. Especially pathetic if you're not hosting the server, so you can act like an ostrich and duck your head behind a two foot tall box and be covered, so long as your head isn't physically visible by the AI's perspective.
>>336441172
Half agree half disagree. First stealth was a broken mess that was hilariously easy to exploit, so it's easy to say it got better with time since it was a mess to begin with. But the end product of what we got is just "OK". A few missions definitely made the stealth shine, but repeated run through's really highlight it's problems. Doesn't help either that most heists give equal rewards for bullrushing the heist instead of sneaking it, making waiting less of a chore since you have more stuff to do than sit around waiting for something to finish or a guy to pass by.
Funnily I remember thief 2 being one of the first games to be a success and a failure. Sold well, great critical reception, didn't sell enough to make eidos happy.
So they burned the studio.
>>336442005
>After experiencing the "stealth" of Payday 1
I only remember the mercy hospital a bit, there were no stealth cues at all in the first game right? I mean you couldn't really tell if AI suspected something or not (until the alarm goes off)
>blocking eye contact from AIs means you're "covered"
There are so many ways to fuck up stealth in PD2 so i consider this to be a positive. I also actually enjoy hiding behind those tiny pillars in the gallery.
Mark of the Ninja is god tier open ended stealth
Dishonored is aight. AI is dumb as rocks and you have less methods of approach versus Thief, but it sure beats the hell out of its modern 3d peers
>>336433305
>I'll never understand why the genre withered and died.
The objective is to stay hidden and out of view, so stealth games did what they're naturally best at.
>>336442834
Didn't really like Dishonored because the stealth feels a tad artificial. You get caught and you can kill a dozen men with extreme ease with various items. Hell, even the sneaking is extremely easy with all the powers the game grants you. Not saying it's bad by all means, but it certainly doesn't feel like a stealth game. Guess I'll try Mark of the Ninja as well at some point.
>>336442071
That's a shame. Games post Metal Age don't really seem they're as good as the first two. Deadly Shadows has ok ratings, but the newest title isn't regarded well by anyone, really. Stupid money.
>>336443283
>Guess I'll try Mark of the Ninja as well at some point.
Give Invisible Inc a try too, if you haven't already.
It's turnbased stealth and it's really good.
Thoughts on this?
>>336443615
It's pretty alright, but repetitive - you have to finish every level twice.
They are massive, but doing the same stuff two times is kinda tiring.
>le mark of the ninja is good
take your indie shit and fuck off kids
>>336443726
Name a better 2d stealth game period
Name a better 3d stealth game to come out in the last 10 years
>>336443997
Styx and Dishonored are infinitely superior to MotN.
>>336444264
>Styx
Fuck off with your indie shit kiddo
>>336444323
Well played sir.
>>336443997
>Name a better 2d stealth game period
That's a tough one. There are what, like two games in 2d stealth department total?
>>336444506
There's quite alot, but it's mostly indie shit of varying quality
Stealth Bastard/Stealth Inc is pretty good
>>336444680
Don't know why but idea of 2d stealth just does not appeal for me. Kinda like 2d horror, i can't get immersed at all. Still bought and played Stais because i like the setting and theme.
>>336443615
Very clunky, poorly designed levels and guard routes, the level system with skills just creates incredibly annoying restrictions on your playstyle making you piss-weak at the start and completely broken by the end. Level of graphics is good, but design is severely mediocre and as everything built on UE3 looks plasticky as hell.
>>336433173
Enjoy OP, get the first one as well although 2 is better in most ways
Also look into custom levels, there's a fuckton of them and people still make them. 16 years worth of missions dawg
You'll probably want to play the whole original trilogy, but I have to warn you: levels in Deadly shadows will look very small at first, but the design is great nonetheless, you will see some absolutely fantastic levels if you keep playing.
>>336433305
Because the genre requires the player to hide. It requires them to be patient and wxplore the level. Most people don't want that. They want to shoot dem gunz.
>>336445349
Haven't you heard, community glued deadly shadows sub-levels together, so there are no loads during missions.
>>336445584
That's actually a bad idea, many levels are based around this separation, Shalebridge cradle's so terrifying partially because a load barrier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPFbA8Qmths
>>336445865
>>336445865
>>336445865
;_;7 even their workplace looks comfy as fuck.
>>336445169
>16 years worth of missions
>i'm in the 5th level after ~15 hours of play
Wew. That's gonna take a while to go through.
![040[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/I44Bq4O.jpg "040[1].jpg")
>>336445865
Is it time?
>Last Day at Looking Glass (video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7tJpuluqQY
>Last Day at Looking Glass (photos)
http://www.digital-eel.com/mc/may252000.htm
>Looking Glass Studios - behind the scenes (partially in German)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaugYown6GA
>Making of Thief 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTwrEfES5Q4
>Looking Glass Studios Interview Podcast series
http://gambit.mit.edu/updates/audio/looking_glass_studios_podcast/
>Thief website
http://web.archive.org/web/19980526143212/http://www.lglass.com/p_info/dark/index.html
>Deep Cover (unfinished Cold War stealth game) screenshots
https://www.unseen64.net/tag/looking-glass-studios/
http://95.31.27.16/projects/deep_cover/
>Interview with Josh Randall (Robotkid) about music and sound design
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrIhMlPbhqk
>Josh Randall soundcloud
https://soundcloud.com/robotkid
>Developers play System Shock 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LDiTZ89j-Q
>PC classic commentary: Ultima Underworld with Paul Neurath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sh_DY28wl4
>obscure misc videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheLookingGlassVault
>>336447461
Don't think I saw it posted.
Also we haveDeus Ex Mankind DividedandDishonored 2this year to scratch the itch some at least.
>>336447461
I should get back to playing Thief 1/Gold and 2 FMs at some point.
>>336447712
>>336447725
Is there a site where one can download those missions in bulk? There seems to be a download limit in the Thiefmissions.com
>>336447662
goddamit anon
>>336447712
I might be a crazy person, but Mankind Divided doesn't look all that great to me
The story seems to be more focused on transhumanism/discrimination instead of conspiracies (I could turn out to be completely wrong about this though), Adam is the protagonist again and they're still doing that Icarus imagery bullshit, the flawed XP system from Human Revolution is still there and the character animations/lipsyncing still looks awful
I really need to get around playing thief.
>>336441521
>Also, not surprisingly enough I saw System Shock 2 and Blood demo in dad's cache
Your dad has pretty good taste
>>336447662
From the Josh Randall interview I thought it was interesting that he was used as reference for Garrett's face on the cover art, since Garrett's face changes in game between cutscenes. So I guess this is the closest we have to his actual face.
>>336448184
Not sure but you can use http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144797
if you have a particular kind of mission in mind.
Also, don't unzip the missions. And TFix has a built in mission loader, so you don't have to download a separate one.
>>336447712
There's also a fantastic fan-made expansion Thief 2X with its own story, missions, and main character.
>>336433173
You should stop and play Thief Gold first. There's some cool storytelling you'll miss in 2 if you don't.
>>336434135
>>336433493
It requires a lot of patience though.
>>336444323
motn is more indie than styx, just fucking look at it.
>>336443997
invinsible inc. is better.
>Playing Thief Gold
>All fun and games, having a blast
>all of a sudden, Thieves Guild
>mfw
The difficulty spike, Jesus.
>>336451410
If you can't find the bracelet just look it up, it's bullshit.
thanks for reminding me that I need to continue playing teef, I got to the cathedral but then other games came up
>>336451410
Thieves' Guild is just one of the very few plain bad levels in Thief.
Just push through anon, the best level in the whole series is coming very soon.
>>336437457
>>I'm just really, really sad that nothing like this is available today and I'm sure there would be a market for stuff like this.
The problem, anon, is that the AA developer model has just plain died. They've been dead for years. There may be a market, but there's no middle-ground developers there anymore to capitalize on it. AAA developers have absolutely massive budgets put into their games, so they have to appeal to the widest possible crowd, they can't afford to appeal to a mere 30% market share when they could be shooting for 80%. Indie games have no budget, and are almost entirely relegated to 2D pixel art platformers because of it.
It's sort of like, if all TV was suddenly split into massive events like the oscars and the superbowl, and local tv stations. Everything inbetween gets wiped out, from cartoons to sitcoms to drama, to make way for more big oscar superbowl events and more zero budget local TV shenanigans.
>>336436402
>>336437457
>>336438291
>>336438976
I'm glad to see actual honest insight and discussion about stuff now and then, thanks for this thread.
I bought Thief Gold, II, III and 4 in a humble bundle some time ago, I'll totally play the first one and give the games the attention they need. (Not 4 though).
>yfw
>>336453101
>>336453101
That was fantastic.
>>336453101
>>336453101
>That abyss
Best level in the whole game
>>336443726
>>336443997
>>336444264
>>336451389
>>336444323
>>336451323
Why the fuck are you guys using one fucking line of text to try to make affirmations? This is the kind of bullshit that derails actual discussion of the REASONS and qualities of why said game can have positive or bad elements and turning everything into "my opinion is better than yours"-shitposting off rail train that most threads in /v/ eventually become.
Get off of your own fat asses and learn to communicate.
i remember playing mgs for first time and instantly fell in love with stealth genre i thought stealth games all were good easy to like told my bro about mgs he played and told me u have shit taste because in this game you cant even shoot openly i was really upset
>>336441521
Out of curiosity: How old are you OP?
Recently started playing Thief The Dark Project and it's pretty amazing.
>>336445996
>>336446628
>>336447416
They opened an indie studio recently called "Otherside Studios", they're currently working on System Shock 3 and a new Ultima game.
http://othersidetease.com/sss.php
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpa4L_96ElAgH1hit3aya9w/videos
>>336454815
mad
>>336436402
AVP2 multiplayer with Alien shit was fun to gather them in a straight tunnel for easy kills
Whatever happen next I do remember what some people spouted on ECL forums back when OFP:Resistance was still a thing and servers were full with people playing any given game modality without batsing an eye
>Your "muh CTF Everon" is too slow paced,on CoD or CS there are no matches that last more than 10 minutes,and we don't like to play for 30 minutes in a map that is so huge only to gather 5 kills and 7 deaths,nor we want to play it for three times in a row
Distance between the two flags was around 400 meters,getting there was just a minute or two long jog
People doesn't want to waste their time without racking 56568820986876 kills in two seconds
>>336434676
Payback at Eidos for the Thief reboot ripping off Dishonored.
I'm installing Thief Gold right now, what am I expecting?
>>336433173
>gfx are shit
really? a game from 2000 has shitty graphics compared to 2016? no shit you idiot, like it matters anyway
>tfw old enough to be a cool parent
>infertile
>no money
>>336439145
In Dishonored's defense, you can turn off the quest marker and there's enough in-game clues to guide you to your destination and obviously feels way more immersive. It's how I played and it worked just fine.
>>336438896
>Our male hero, Corvo, will be voiced by Stephen Russel, who was Nick Valentine in Fallout 4. And our female hero, Emily, will be voiced by another Fallout 4 player: Erica Luttrel, who was Darla.
>>336456749
A lot of spooky shit after the first level. If you're not into that play Thief 2.
>>336456468
And it's ironic how fast as fuck games that were over the top "kill them in high speed and flick your screen and shit" like Quake and Tribes fell and now shooters are Halo, COD, BF and even stuff like Overwatch.
Shit.
>>336456749
It's a first person stealth (adventure) game in a spooky setting, including monsters, magic 'n shit.
Theif threads are always so damn comfy
>>336457203
even the new doom 4 plays like halo
which is hilarious since cod advanced warfare has more in common with old-school arena shooters than the new doom
gaming is fucked up nowadays
>>336453101
>"wow garret's map is shit, I'll draw my own as I go"
they got me good
>>336457493
play like old school areana shooter with 1 bazillion automatic guns, perks, ads, killstreak, no map pickup whatsoever, loadout, 2 weap limit?
>>336457805
I said "has more in common"
Learn how to read
There's double jumping and side-dashes in Advanced Warfare
is thief 2 the best stealth game of all time?
>>336457805
No traditional pickups, but you can nab enemy guns. It's nice when they're tricked out. Even nicer when you kill them with their own gun.
>>336457805
btw if you want a modern shooter that is like the arena shooters of old then check the new Unreal Tournament...though it's still on Alpha and it's a multiplayer-only game
>>336458024
>There's double jumping and side-dashes in Advanced Warfare
there's no double jumping and side dashese in doom or quake. it first appeared in ut2004 and now ut2014.
dodge and double jumping also worthless when everybody has hitscan weapon anytime they feel like it and die in the same amount of shot. If some player can withstand more, it's because his loadout permit it, not because he spend time collecting shit on the map.
Even a butchered as it is, d44m is more of an arena shooter than cod. the speed is slower and advanced movement dumbed down but all the principles are there.
The game industry is stuck on the mobile and instant buy train, why make a good game?
All you have to do is just sell the game itself, its not like the past where 90% of games were mostly advertised by word of mouth or reviews and ads on obscure magazines, so being good was the biggest way to get people to recommend it to friends.
Honestly I find myself playing the new wave of specialty boardgames these days since they have more depth then your average video game these days, helps that I work at a hobby shop though.
>>336456776
You know what I mean. I'm just used to something better.
>>336456901
I probably should have done the same, but I guess I never saw the quest marker as a problem.
>>336456004
19judge me
>>336433173
You entered Thief Mode.
>>336458753
I said old arena shooters not "doom"
Either way Advanced Warfare is also faster than Doom 4 which is just weird because Doom is supposed to be fast
>>336433173
It's even more impressive because Thief 2 was made in under a year and basically under constant threat of team getting fired and project scrapped at any point.
>>336438896
>Someone will probably be upset Chloe Moretz wouldn't voice Emily this time around.
She never did anything for the role in the first game. Shit, I didn't even realize it was her until the credits rolled. Dishonored had a strong cast otherwise though.
>>336458257
Quite possibly.
>>336461068
I want most of the actors to reprise their roles in the second game.
>>336462041
do you think Corvo canonically killed Daud or let him live? It would be nice to see Madsen back as him. Better yet, another DLC starring him.
>>336462206
Hope he spared him.
Doud was based, and so was Madsen.
>>336458257
>is thief 2 the best stealth game of all time?
It is up there.
>>336445662
Fuck right off, the tiny levels and constant loading was one of the main detractions of the game.
>>336451410
Thieves Guild gets easier after the first time once you understand the bullshit map and sequence of events properly. It's still the worst level of the first two games, but mainly because it's built differently than almost every other level.
