So, I'm not an hardcore gamer. Non even a gamer at all. A real casual here.
I kept hearing about Dark Souls however and how is the hardest game ever and decided to give it a try. In six hours of gameplay (4 days) I made it till this cunt knight and I'll admit those hours have been quite frustrating but I knew what to expect so I was pretty chill about it.
But then this cunt knight killed me and got me thinking: it's not the enemies, the bosses how much the game punishes you if you arent cautious enough to be a pain in the ass, but the lack of check points.
I mean was it really necessary to design a game that want you to do the same 10 minutes level 20 times? And I know what you'll say, I've already read it: GIT GUD.
But seriously, why? What's the point of having the bonfires so far apart? I understand everything else: the lack of contest, losing all your souls, the fucking OP enemies, but Dark Souls focus on tedious grinding is lost on me.
Not the kind of game for you. Thread over
>>336272296
Try doing things differently each time instead of just uselessly doing the same thing over and over. Learning to parry is probably the most valuable skill you can pick up for this game.
>it took him 4 days to get halfway through level 2
It's actually a pretty important way the game created tension and relief. Always looking out for the next bonfire, wondering if you should push on or go back and spend your souls, freaking out over whether there's a boss or a bonfire on the other side of a fog wall, and the immense relief when you finally find one or realize you've come full circle back to a previous one. Now maybe you feel they're still too far apart, that always going to be subjective, but I guarantee that if you push on then you'll come to appreciate the system.
Practice parrying to have an easier time with those guys.
>>336272665
This, also it's not hard you're just a casual so why are you even complaining
>>336272296
>he hits you
>block with shield
>he pauses
>hit him
Repeat until he dies
Dark Souls requires you to achieve a minimum level of mastery before advancing, basically. The game actually teaches you how to git gud, if you play it enough.
>>336272296
>dying to a balder knight
>dying to any humanoid enemy in general
Just backstab them or riposte. Humanoid enemies are a joke since they can almost always be killed in one hit from either.
There is only one thing you can do OPGit gud
>I mean was it really necessary to design a game that want you to do the same 10 minutes level 20 times?
This is an older game design philosophy. I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but you're either new to games, or really young. This is how games were before tutorials were a thing.
>>336272296
Just run past those faggots (or kill them, they aren't hard to isolate) and there's a bonfire.
>>336272296
>the first balder knight
I know this is a bait post but jesus christ, from knew how easy they were so they put 5 in the next building
DS2 and 3 have far more bonfires.
>>336272914
I'm actually not complaining
Just trying to understand the reasoning in having to repeat HUGE chunks of playtrough over and over. Like if you struggle in one particular section, you have to also redo the precent two every single time.
>>336272296
>I mean was it really necessary to design a game that want you to do the same 10 minutes level 20 times?
It's a game that rewards progress, you're supposed to feel like you've earned every checkpoint. Bonfires are supposed to be a sign of sheer elation as that area you were stuck in for hours is finally behind you.
You're also constantly looking for a bonfire in a new area because it's one of the very few areas of safety in the entire game.
It's a risk/reward system, that's all. Having a checkpoint after every 3 kills would completely kill a lot of the emotions a player would have during a playthrough.
This explanation may sound gay as fuck, but it's actually a clever design choice.
How do you get yourself dressed in the morning?
>>336272296
Started playing the game a couple of days ago, played about 20 hours, what exactly is your problem? That there's far between bonfires? To me that's mostly annoying because of bossfights(the first and second ones) but after that it isn't so bad since you also get to farm souls. I just finished Ornie and Smaug and what a great fight.
Also that guy is incredibly easy, why don't you try to stay at a distance and figure out what his moves are, then fight him. Consider upgrading your main weapon if you haven't, and take off your armor if your rolling is slow.
>>336273586
more checkpoints lowers the stakes
>>336272716
I did all of dark souls 1 without parries on my first run and went through the game easily
>>336273586
>HUGE chunks
That's the thing, they're not HUGE chunks at all. Once you learn the area it's probably a minute run from bonfire to bonfire.
"Dark Souls is the hardest game I've played in years" - Millennials
>>336272296
Actually as you play more into Darksouls, you will notice that bonfires will be nicely placed at correct distances to reflect on the amount of Estus you should have on you. If you are consistantly running out of Estus FOR A GOOD REASON, not some shit reason that you just run into everything like a faggot, then you should take it as a signal that you are underleveled, missed an estus shard, or are leveling in a strange way. All my first playthroughs of all the Darksouls games were pretty on spot on where I was getting low or running out of sips.
>>336273586
It sucks but a lot of the time you'll just have to run clean passed enemies to get to your objective. It's not like there's no finesse to running passed enemies though, you still need to know how to avoid what they throw at you.
You might be surprised at how close together the bonfires actually are in some instances, and there are sometimes shortcuts that you can open up along the way.
There are still people who don't do that and make it through just fine, though. They probably just find satisfaction in being able to "master" an area from start to finish.
>>336272296
Without punishment in a game there is no reward. Also,
>the hardest game ever
The game is easy peasy
>>336272296
>In six hours of gameplay (4 days)
wtf did u spend the other 90 hours sleeping or what you lazy fat piece of shit???
Think of each bonfire as a new level. Do you have a problem with a game having levels? When you play Mario do you quick save before every jump?
*Souls games aren't hard, they just punish mistakes more severely. Once you get past the learning-curve and begin to use some actual patience, it's a manageable slog.
Except for the Anor Londo archers. Fuck those guys.
>>336274346
>estus shard
>dark souls 1
What
>>336274885
The archers are there to test if you've learned the rolls I frames and if you know the weapon mechanics for narrow areas
>>336274885
>they just punish mistakes more severely
Oh come on, even Diablo 2 was more severe, since you actually left all your equipment at the spot you died.
>>336272296
Dark Souls is a very easy game compared to actual hardcore games
>>336272296
the whole point is being able to go through each checkpoint without dying..
![eIyTVsm[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/u1qlz0U.jpg "eIyTVsm[1].jpg")
>>336272296
>What's the point of having the bonfires so far apart?
I got you covered, anon.
>>336275070
I meant more severely compared to other games at the time, m8. Sorry, probably should have specified.
>>336275407
>each boss spawns a bonfire on death
>bonfire before boss fog for easy access
>>336275407
That's a boss bonfire you mong.
>>336275513
Yeah, no. The far bonfire is boss spawned. The bonfire in the foreground is after boss bonfire.
>>336275597
so?
>>336275513
Actually no, the second bonfire is few steps after a boss. You could argue it's the start of a new area, but then again the catacombs didn't have a second bonfire right after abyss watchers.
>>336272296
But why are you doing an area 20 times again?
I mean you don't have to farm souls in this game.
After a point souls are not really useful anymore, unless you want to level up ridiculously high.
if there's checkpoints every 5 feet you don't need to claim mastery over any part of the game
just keep throwing yourself at obstacles til you get lucky
>>336275724
>After a point
After what point, he hasn't even gotten to the gargoyles yet.
>>336272296
>it's not...how much the game punishes you if you arent cautious enough
you think it isn't but it is.
this is exactly your problem. the game punishes you for dying by making you repeat the content and now you punish as for visiting this board by being a giant faggot.
>>336275694
Uh, my bad then. yeah pretty useless then
>>336272296
The bonfires aren't far away though. It shouldn't take you 10 minutes to get between them, or 20 attempts. You literally just need to get good.
>>336275915
Because he does the first area over and over again.
Which I don't really understand because they don't give much souls that early game.
>>336275407
This pissed me off.
I liked that cathedral area where the boss bonfire was actually a hub with shortcuts leading back to it. I think it was pontiffs bonfire. All the other boss bonfires are just useless exit points.
>>336272296
The bonfire placement is to add risk and tension to much of the game, people spend all day talking about how how hard bosses like Orenstein and Smough are but if you could just start the fight again with full Estus after a death then these fights would not be so memorable nor would the pay off for beating them feel as great, this kind of mechanic is also something of a call back to older gamers which had similarly harsh penalties.
I can understand someone being put off by this limitation but it is a deliberate inclusion which increases the stakes not just for bosses but all combat in the game. It's because resting at a bonfire resets the monsters thus undoing your progress through the zone all the damage you take in Darksouls matter in many ways its the antithesis of regenerating health where damage you take doesn't matter at all unless it kills you.
I would like to also point out that Darksouls was also my first souls game and the Baldur Knights still stick in my memory as frustrating the first time I saw them, but when i came back through the area and on repeat playthroughs of the game I found the Baldur Knights quiet easy, you are still quiet early in the game and if you are anything like me these dudes are annoying because you waste ages fighting them because their speed and damage makes you cautious as well as some of them being able to parry which you probably aren't great at yet. Im not going to tell you to "Git Gud" but I had the exact same experience getting frustrated at how long it took me to get past them the first time.
How do you deal with Lothric Knights in early game as a pure sorcerer? Backstab backstab?
>>336276087
I don't think OP was farming an area though, wasn't he just saying he was angry with having to keep going through enemies in the area because he died over and over?
>>336276113
This one was actually very much like the cathedral. You open shortcuts here too. The whole achieve level is filled with shortcuts. You should have liked this one too then.
Its probably two team doing the levels and they just didnt communicate properly. This one bonfire is important for the shortcuts, but is right at the start of an area and the last area boss is at the end. And since every boss have to spawn bonfire, the bonfires are very close. Its just funny oversight, nothing bad.
>>336272296
>grinding in a dark souls game
>dying to easy enemies.
you just don't use all the tools given to you.
that knight is specifically designed to test your ability with kicks.
>>336272748
>level 2
jesus that sounds so wrong hah
>>336272748
he said hes a casual gamer, and he also said it was about 6 hours, so he only plays 1 or 2 hours a day.
6 ours isn't that egregious if it's your first time through and you don't play games that often.
>>336276357
>he died over and over
Why would you do that?Just kidding I did the same, because I started with deprived already fatrolling in hollow soldier armor.
>>336272901
This. It's how the game is exciting at all. A checkpoint every 2 minutes doesn't make you feel like you're exploring an actually dangerous place where you can lose a lot of progress and have you actually be on edge about your surroundings and how you approach different situations.
If you can persevere, it is very worth it. Don't get discouraged, it's absolutely doable even as a casual player.
>>336276776
>do ~15 tries against gargoyles
>finally realize I have not upgraded my weapon once
>buy the bastard sword and get as many upgrades I could
>beat them in 4 tries
Dumb flaming cunts
>>336275705
The archives bonfire acts like a hub tho
>>336272296
at least it's just a lack of checkpoints making it harder.
Shit like Ninja Gaiden people go crazy with how awesome and difficult it it but holy shit the only reason it's difficult is the fucking camera is god awful. Enemies constantly attack you off screen and the camera can get so fucking far away it's hard to even see yourself.
dark souls just controls like ass.
>>336272296
the real problem is distances from a bonfire to the boss. some of them are alright, but other times its such a fucking chore to make the journey and in some cases, your forced to killed enemies that arent really hard but simply make the run that much more tedious. i just fucking want to have another go at the boss, not go through this fucking slog to get to it
>>336274885
>don't stand still
>they can't hit you
that was hard
>>336276369
>You open shortcuts here too. The whole achieve level is filled with shortcuts. You should have liked this one too then.
I know, but it was a wasted opportunity. Instead of using that boss bonfire as a nice hub they threw another one 10 feet ahead.
>>336272296
>bought it yesterday
>have played for 7 hours
>defeated twin gargoyal things
>rung a bell
>come to the realization that while I love the art and sound direction, I wasn't actually having fun
>at all
/v/ would make you think this series is the GOTYAY but where?
>>336274885
>Anor Londo archers
Are those the ones in the starting area after the winged pink abortions, in the tower where there's two of them, and then you run op that tiny roof towards them?
>>336274045
Second boss has two bonfires fairly close
>>336278007
>I wasn't actually having fun
Stick to Splatoon
>>336278007
What were you playing with? I hope you weren't using a boring sword
>>336277960
As I said, probably two different groups making those levels and they fucked up on communication. Its not like this fucking anything, pretty minor stuff.
>>336273586
You're a casual. This game was not made to be catered to you. Why are you even on /v/ anyway?
>>336278007
It gets better, not the next boss, but after that one. I also found it disheartening that there's no real customization up to that point. Unless you want to roll like a fat retard that is.
>>336278271
Yeah that's true, I personally died three times just trying to get over there(ran through everything) and then three tries to actually beat him.
>>336278278
Never played it M8
>>336278353
A two hander
>>336278459
I don't know anon, a game not being fun within 7 hours of play is more than enough to put me off. I think it's just a simple case of its just not for me.
>>336277638
>I didn't find the bonfire in Senn's Fortress
>>336276414
>kicks
Or parries
>>336278643
It can definitely get annoying. Especially when you basically have to just sacrifice yourself into somewhere because you don't know if it's actually possible to go there or not. And of course having to go through the same areas. I'm at 21 hours now and I'd say the last 10 have been great, the first 10 were very mediocre and at times it felt like I was just hitting a wall, just about powering through them because I knew it would get a lot better and more interesting later on.
>>336272990
this desu
If you couldn't figure this out OP you might genuinely be retarded
>>336272296
Demon's Souls is better
>>336279694
>Demon's Souls is better
DeS is the most mediocre of the bunch.
>>336279694
DeS is clunky as hell.
did we ever get to fucc geyndolins boiupousssi?
>>336279767
Dark Souls 2 is objectively worst and Bloodborne isn't too far behind
>>336279767
So is every other Souls game
>>336278007
You don't have to like every game, even good ones
>>336280791
>So is every other Souls game
They are all the most mediocre Souls game? Right.
>>336280901
That actually isn't far from the truth, since they're all really good
>>336280901
i just realized I quoted you twice.
>>336279903
Every souls game is clunky
>>336280791
Bloodborne is great though
>>336281050
I couldn't be bothered to keep playing DeS, never finished it, but I love playing DaS.
Game can be hard until you grasp the mechanics.
>>336272901
this
>>336273586
The bonfires aren't actually far apart at all, it just feels like it your first time because you don't know the world yet. From below the bridge to the next bonfire is literally just the armored boar's area and two Baldur Knights and a few simple hollow warriors afterward.
The game is designed in such a way so that when you're out of estus, low on health, and terrified that something will pop out and finish you off, THAT's when you find another bonfire, and that feeling of relief is sublime. If there was a bonfire every ten feet there would be no risk, and therefore no reward.
If you ever beat the game and go back to replay it, you'll immediately realize that the game isn't nearly as hard or punishing as you thought it was, and that the world is a lot smaller than you thought it was.
>>336272296
>and how is the hardest game ever
a meme that gets cuter and cuter everytime I hear it
Guys... but what is the hardest souls game?
>>336281680
Does it even matter?
>>336277408
Dark Souls controls way better than most games.
>>336272716
I've played all DAS including some challenge runs and I still don't know how to properly pull of a parry on anything faster than a starting enemy.
>>336281610
Name 5 games harder than Dark Souls.
Go ahead, I'll wait...
...
Heh, didn't think so. Ok faget you had your chance, I'm done.
>>336281804
I'm curious
>>336273586
Not everyone is a casual who dies constantly and can't find shortcuts to bonfires.
>>336273586
If playing through the level causes you to run completely out of health and estus, you need to learn to do better before going to harder areas.
The game itself is training for the rest of the game. "BONFIRES EVERYWHERE" would maybe be OK if there wasn't an estus system. But bosses would be worse that way on top of the rest of the design flaws you would find.
>>336282060
hah
>>336273586
Like others have mentioned, the bonfires aren't that far apart from each other as it may feel to you.
Once you see the first balder knight (the one in your picture) you're actually pretty close to another bonfire.
Try luring enemies away from each other so you can battle them one on one. Use your shield as well, and circle around enemies if they allow you.
They think the balder knights are bad in 1.
Damn how are they going to react to the giant electroworm in DS3 that can instagib you by just moving, whilst also having to avoid the giant firing at you.
I know you can kill it once you're past it but melee only it's tough.
Hell even the jumpy rape enemies in the swamp and underground areas are worse.
>>336272296
dat bss
The only part of Dark Souls that I've played where I've felt really annoyed about a lack of bonfire is right before the fight with Rocko and Heffer. Not that the bonfire is super far away but I hate having to deal with the two giant knight guys before them when I struggle so much on the fight itself and want to just keep throwing myself into the fight so I can master it.
Only other spot I can think of would be Blighttown if you come from The Depths but I always take the master key so I can go from the Firelink Shrine.
>>336283041
Those giants suck, but you can bait them into attacking and run right past them. Takes a bit of practice, but it's a lifesaver.
The worst part is waiting for that fucking elevator if you go back to the firekeeper bonfire.
>>336283714
Last time I played:
>Leaving the firelink shrine
>Decide to send the elevator back up when I get to the ruins, figuring I'll die before I reach the one in Blighttown
>Reach the one in Blighttown just fine, beat Kellog's Rice Krispies
>Leaving Blighttown, feeling good that I didn't die at all down there
>Just gotta take the elevator back up
>Forgot I had sent it up earlier
>Run right into the pit where it would be and die
Also I know you can run past the knights but I always try to summon Solitare for the sunlight medaland to help me beat them because I've never been able to beat them.
