Why did Starcraft 2's popularity fall off so hard?
Some people say it was MOBAs fault, or that RTS is a dead genre, but I kind of feel like it was the arcade system being complete shit more than anything else. Thoughts?
>>335949454
neo blizzard a shit
>>335949454
The game had massive problems from the get-go. For starters, the focus on 'terrible, terrible damage' made the fights go way to fast to be satisfying, made even worse by the clumping of the unit selection.
They also made it too easy to get the heavy duty units, making mid-tier units a brief transitional tool instead of a bread and butter linchpin weapon to be used throughout the game.
Finally the new 'class perks' like warp-ins, mass spawning, and mules were so ridiculously overpowered.
>>335949454
True starcraft is too hard and too old for new players, new starcraft is too neo-blizz lollypop and still too hard for new players. there are more interesting games around for new players with a lower skill ceiling.
>>335949454
Was just watching a tournament yesterday, thinking the same.
Worse story than the originals.
Multiplayer requires autistic levels of micro that the average person doesn't care to learn how to do.
Arcade system is garbage and the fact that Blizzard preemptively claimed anything in it as their property drained all desire for modders to make anything truly worthwhile with it.
RTS genre was and is on the way out - moba/assfaggots are simply more profitable than the niche RTS genre and all the developers that would have made RTS switched to making moba instead. This has less to do with SC2 and more with the genre as a whole though.
>>335950149
pretty much this
200 supply armies evaporating in the span of 5-7 seconds before the player even has a chance to micro made games extremely boring to watch and hilariously swing-based
The game is too hard and the main requirement to be good is to just memorize build orders and click really fast. There's no strategy, just mechanics.
>>335950149
>For starters, the focus on 'terrible, terrible damage' made the fights go way to fast to be satisfying, made even worse by the clumping of the unit selection.
This is probably the biggest issue for me. It's simply frustrating to lose a 10+ minute game in the blink of an eye because he got one good storm on you when you weren't looking.
>>335949454
>Some people say it was MOBAs fault, or that RTS is a dead genre, but I kind of feel like it was the arcade system being complete shit more than anything else. Thoughts?
You know it could be all of those things combined. It doesn't have to be just one thing.
>>335950163
This
Usually when you join a game that has a competitive scene either you realize you'll just be a spectator or you want to try and go pro. idk why Starcraft really fools people into thinking they can go pro easily and when they see they'll fail miserably they just drop the game altogether
>>335950275
And with the latest expansion, the micro has become 100% retardedly autismal.
They intentionally made the micro super important "to make matches more interesting to watch". The fucking retards.
It sits in a really awkward spot with regards to how much skill and practice you need to play it.
It's too easy and shallow for high level competitive players, but it's too difficult and deep for the regular joe.
>>335950424
build orders are a core part of strategy though. choosing a build order is choosing how you want to play out the game.
>>335950484
>It's too easy and shallow for high level competitive players
lol
Focus on esports bullshit.
Very few people actually enjoy the high apm super fast reaction times always rush high octane gameplay of the best players. Most people just want a decent campaign and a fun accessible multiplayer where they can just have fun.
StarCraft failed hard on creating a multiplayer geared towards to masses. The campaign itself I admit I enjoyed. It was very varied, the AI put up a credible threat, and all in all a decent campaign gameplay wise.
Story wise it was fuckin trash.
Also they fucking butchered custom games. I would say a large chunk if not a majority of StarCraft players were playing custom games far more than they would play a 'serious' game. So having such a hard to use, obtuse, and outright limited custom game designer on release was devastating for long term popularity.
Oh and of course the actual balance in multiplayer was kinda shit.
Same reason why it happened to Quake Live and UT4.
Blizzard decided to copy everything from the previous game without changes so people who used to play it for 10+ years felt right at home, and noobs could not get into it because of how high the average player skill is.
>>335950705
Except that Brood War players hated SC2.
Blizz got really greedy on launch, wanted to charge for mods and was very VERY unbalanced at release.
Also to justify 3 expansions they HELD CORE UNITS of their game to push them later on. Thing is the game really suffered from that dick move, and felt stale in many aspects because you had no options but to blob the same unit over and over.
The story is ass as well. Campaign is supposed to tell you a story adn teach you the fundamentals of the game, yet, the story is so bad it killed any hype in the expansions. And they were 2 more of them. 2 nigga. 2 more of the same stupid story that nobody cared, liked and asked for.
>>335949454
Godawful story, which turned off anyone who wasn't into the multiplayer already. People like to get all elitist about eSports but the truth is that a game can only survive as long as there are people who like watching it.
>>335950705
>Blizzard decided to copy everything from the previous game without changes
not really. in fact old school BW fanboys still to this day shit on SC2 for adding multi-building selection and unlimited control groups cause it made the game "too easy".
>>335950705
Quake Live is shit because ITS SHIT.
UT4 is incredible and free, but it's still on pre alpha and people is going to hold on that one it seems. It's completely and perfectly playable and looks better than some "finished" games ON THE PRE ALPHA.
And SC2 has nothing resembling Broodwar.
Basically, you don't really know a shit about any of these 3 games.
>>335950701
>Oh and of course the actual balance in multiplayer was kinda shit.
outside of the BL/Infestor era it's actually been pretty good. don't listen to pros, pros will always whine if a matchup is only 49/51 and not a perfect 50/50
>>335949454
Hard counters were way harder in SCII than in SCI. I heard someone say once that in SCI units did decent damage against what they countered and crappy damage against everything else, while in SCII units do massive damage to what they countered and good damage to everything else except hard counters, where they're pretty much useless.
>>335950935
Easy or not, new player are not able to do shit and lose within 5 minutes.
Same with quake, you just can't compete with someone who is playing quake for 10-15 years and you will never ever win a duel with him no matter how much time you spend on ffa, how many duels you play daily.
>>335950817
>>335950935
SC2 is really gay because they added modern conveniences while trying to maintain "pro" APM with stupid fucking mechanics like creep spread spawn larva.
also the units are way less cool.
>>335949454
Broodwar was great because Blizzard created the game and really didn't fuck with it too much. The players themselves created builds and strategies. It was great.
It seems to me that with Starcraft 2, Blizzard wanted to recreate that by trying to force the game into another national sport. Each installment they try to force people into certain things instead of leaving things well alone. They made it very user friendly, if that makes sense. You can now figure out if you have idle workers, when you cast a spell it doesn't mass cast if you have all the units selected. For example if you select a group of templar to do a storm, it'll only cast once if you click it. In broodwar if you tried that shit it would be like eight storms cast by your single click. Siege tanks will individually target units and not just fire on the first one. It's easier to create wall offs with buildings.
Basically what I'm saying is that Broodwar was great because players worked with what they had. Blizzard saw that and made it even easier to do so, I think it ruined it. Fucking supply depots designed specifically to create wall offs, instead of a player having to be clever and figure out how to do it himself.
Plus, with LOTV, it appears as if they want people focusing on early game wins instead of playing the game. Every fucking unit can do insane amount of splash damage and destroy an entire army, so games now are two base micro battles with a GG if your little play failed. It's rock, paper scissors. No expansion plays, no macro play. Just wall off your base and build something, maybe it will beat your opponent, maybe it won't.
>>335951206
>UT4 is incredible and free
like i said, if you like being at the bottom of the scoreboard and play free for all, pub face 24/7 it might be
But you'll never get good unless you used to play UT2004 before, it is too fucking late.
>>335951603
YOU'LL NEVER
I REPEAT
NEVER WILL GIT GUD
AND WILL NEVER EVER DEFEAT A LONELY NERD PLAYING QUAKE FOR TEN YEARS
That's a fucking lie. Quake player here.
Sure there is a high skill level and lots of experience but you guys are defeated even before entering the arena. You might as well drop on the floor and die right now. Nothing will come out of your lives. You just can't git gud. You don't want to be molded. You won't try having fun in learning. You can't do anything right.
You can't play Starcraft or any game that actually challenges you.
So stop posting. Get on the floor and weep how HARD IT IS to learn a FUCKING VIDEO GAME. Is the hardest prowess you'll ever face, and you will not succeed.
>>335951931
You said what you said because you don't really know things. You are afraid. A tiny little person afraid to step on a brick.
Easily put: If you can't play simple things like arena shooters and RTS you are a failure in life. You may not like the genres, but saying you'll never get on par with someone is like saying you'll never win at Tic Tac Toe. Same with SC2.
You want a hugbox, and that's why videogames are shitty right now. They cater to losers like you.
Tiny
Little
Babby
Minuscule little man.
>>335952598
I don't want to play with people who have much more experience that i do and to get raped consistently with not chances to win at all. You don't learn from these losses, when the skill gap is too huge.
If someone made a new arena shooter with different mechanics from quake or ut i'd play it. But it's not happening.
>>335952180
The problem is that no one wants to masochistically play quake or ut anymore just so they have the priviliedge of getting their ass kicked for years just to be okay in a genre that died decades ago.
Arena shooters shat the bed and died for a reason anon.
They aren't the only only online shooters in town anymore anon. There are other gametypes.
Brood War was a game where you could use micro (tactics) to reverse a bad macro/build order decision (strategy).
Was it fun to play?
No but it was incredibly fun to watch.
Case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2s3quNbfKs
SC2 failed because of what >>335950149 said, a match is usually decided by the build order unless a player fuck up.
>>335951742
>wah why is this game not the hardest fucking thing on earth to play? this is bullshit
It's not like SC2 holds your hand. It doesn't spoon feed you build orders or army comps. It just makes fucking annoying things like you mentioned less fucking annoying.
Did Blizz ever nerf the Void Rays?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzq2O54LLIw
>>335952960
You would get thrown into the ground, your anus exposed to all the big bad good players and penetrated endlessly the same way because you are a little bitch even if it was League of Legends.
They ruined the customs scene because they were too butthurt that they lost Dota..
I never play MOBAs
I tried LoL a couple times and just didn't get the hype. I'd love to play AoE, AoM or EE anytime. I guess I just can't let go of my childhood classics
>>335952987
>Masochistically play
A game where there are no respawn times and just non stop action seems the least masochistic game ever invented.
I don't know about your country, but in mine, if I lose a game I don't get the Bronze Police banging my door and questioning me why didn't I got instantly gud.
Did that ever happened to you? weird.
>>335949454
HotS was a mistake.
if you keep changing the game because probabbies keep complaining then nobody will give a shit any more.
WoL was fucking awesome.
They split it in three instead of having one strong release.
>>335953193
Kind of, they made prismatic alignment an activated ability rather than a charging one which means it can't be made to last forever.
>>335953243
I'm actually decent at CS 1.6 and spent a lot of time playing it... until Valve killed it. I had a chance to join a team and play 1.6 lan tournaments when i was in school but i decided not to.
I don't like csgo and i think it's shit.
And arena shooters are too difficult for me. I've already made a mistake of wasting too much time "getting good" and i'm not making it again. I'm not 13 years old anymore with a shitload of free time and i have much more importand things in life than multiplayer videogames.
>>335950701
>The campaign itself I admit I enjoyed. It was very varied, the AI put up a credible threat, and all in all a decent campaign gameplay wise.
bullshit Wings of Liberty campaign was literally just building Marine balls
>>335949454
Too much bling in the graphics. You don't know what the fuck is happening and it's all over in seconds anyway. They put zero care into actually making the units and fights legible.
>>335951742
This. The Starcraft 2 meta was forced and artificial.
The very answer is in this thread OP.
In two thousand and fucking sixteen, any resemblance to a challenge is averted because the new generation of players are millenials that just can't take joy in a challenge.
SC2 is a good game. It had horrible launch and no hype around it, and when you mix it with apathic, pathethic, self loathing and a very self apologetic crowd your product jut won't sell.
Blizz should have known, shit, they made their fortune on a hugbox called WoW.
>>335953951
Not him but while you can clear the campaign with literally only marines and medics on hard (not brutal) with the exception of the mission where you need to build battlecruiser, it was indeed a fun to play campaign.
pure 1v1 competition games are dead (except maybe for rng shite like hearthstone).
It's much easier and less stressful to be carried/carry in a team game. you can shift the blame onto others if you lose, whereas if it's you against the other guy, it's all on you.
And nowadays people want immediate rewards for playing games, like skins/loadouts, achievements and participation points (you win even if you lose!), etc.
>>335949454
I think a big part of it was the disconnect between the single player campaigns and the competitive multiplayer. In single player you have way more units, persistent upgrades and godlike hero units and/or powers. Also not a single mission simply gives you the objective "eliminate all enemy buildings". So the SC2 single player doesn't teach you at all how the multiplayer works.
In the original Starcraft the campaign served as an entertaining single player experience, but ALSO as a way to slowly introduce all of the gameplay mechanics and units.
Also in SC1 you didn't have to wait over five years before you were allowed to play the Protoss campaign.
>>335949454
3-games. Story was mediocre.
>>335953951
C'mon, almost every RTS can be cheesed with mass grunt swarms or massed tier 1 tanks.
StarCraft II did a good job of keeping the objectives varied, it was very rarely "build a base and destroy the enemy base" and even the missions where that was the case, they offered some decent mix ups in the mission structure or how the battlefield unfolded.
Reposting pasta:
1/2
>Overmind was good all along even though Zeratul linked minds with it and said nothing about this
>Kerrigan wasn't evil, she was just possessed by Zergbits, even though she confirms she is in full control of her actions in Brood War
>Kerrigan is good guy who compromises her own plans to save lives, even though uninfested Kerrigan helped Mengsk murder billions of people with psi-amplifiers
>Kerrigan is no longer manipulative, just a generic villain with no stake in anything
>Raynor and Kerrigan's love story is the most important thing in whole universe, even though it was literally like three flirty banter pieces in the first game
>Tassadar is still alive or an illusion or something
>Zerg aren't worms from a volcanic planet, they are spiky things from a jungle planet and are obsessed with bettering themselves
>UED never returns despite still being interested in Koprulu sector
>Nova is squeezed in everywhere because fans sure loved her in that game that never came out
>Nobody is bad guy, they're all being manipulated by Amon
>Duran has Dragonball Z laser fight with Star Kerrigan
>ANCIENT EVIL PROPHECIES
>>335949454
Artanis morale boost speech to the Protoss forces was probably the most cringe worthy shit I've ever witnessed. It actually drained the last ounce of faith I still had left for Blizzard and made me quit and uninstall the game. The story in these 3 campaigns were beyond retarded. Starcraft 1 wasn't Shakespeare but it had this foreboding darkness and mystic aura.
>>335949454
Because the meta got stale. I think most people stopped caring after Heart of the Swarm became Heart of the Brood Lord/Infestor.
Honestly, Starcraft had its time. It was a good run. I'll always fondly remember the glory days when SC2 was THE e-sport. Back then I worked third shift and looked forward to getting off work early in the morning so I could come home and catch Tastosis casting GSL.
SC2 is still a fun as fuck game. I'd still play it all the time but the carpal tunnel set in during Heart of the Swarm.
>>335955113
Reposting pasta:
2/2
>Mengsk, one of the most devious and capable strategist in the galaxy becomes a cartoon villain equivalent of Robotnic in Sonic
>Raynor is a fucking prodigy steamrolling everything while coining some one-liners. One battlecruisers versus the entire kropulu sector
>Kerrigan, the most powerful force that has conquered the galaxy, decided to turn emo and withdraw her troops. Also lol we like Kerrigan let's make her important and not kill her away, we need a prophecy. Turns out she's not a villain she was controlled all along! We need her badly for commercial purposes guys c'mon
>Zeratul : I used to be a bad-ass assassin of ancient ways and tell others people what's it's about but now I talk in allegories and shit, and I have prophecies that make writers make shit up as they go in every expansions!
>Every villains looks weak, have no importance and just throw one-liners at you like a raid boss. Even Amon of all characters.
>Ok Overmind was a cool villain, but wait, he was controlled by an even bigger villain!
>Tassadar is alive, but they backpedal because of litterate people playing the game and complaining. So yeah it was a Xel'naga all along even if the dialogue in WOL clearly say it wasn't the case at all
>Golden Armada : lol let's fight it with Raynor just for fun, it's not like most of the protoss are dead from SC and BW. More dick-sucking feel-good dialogue for Raynor.
>Tal'darim : lol silly religious people let's kill them all and take their shit. Wait people reacted to that. Let's make it so they are controlled by an evil guy, say Narud in HOTS! Yeah so Narud sent you collect artefacts from the taldarim that were controlled by him. Fuck logic!
>Hey guys I'm stukov, remember the good games ?
>Duran : lol noone remembers him right ? Let's erase him from the games because I can't bother explaining who he was. So let's say he's someone else, then kill this guy, and never talk about him again or aknowledge him whatsoever.
>>335955113
>>Tassadar is still alive or an illusion or something
To be fair, they addressed this in LotV
Ugly UI, ugly blocky units (The carrier never arrived)
Boring (only good for sleeping) music
Bloated
Bad plot and horrible ending ("Sick Gains" Artanis and Kerrigan King of Sue)
Updates too much and "rebalance" too often
Always online, No LAN
New voice action is BAD
Restrictive battle.net
SCBW is still a lot better.
>>335955025
none of the previous blizzard games had that.
>>335955402
(Almost) Every single Protoss mission could be cheesed with Dragoons.
>>335955113
>>335955230
and i'm mad all over again
fucking blizzard. play the game or read the script before you make a sequel to it you fucking hacks
>>335955218
>I think most people stopped caring after Heart of the Swarm became Heart of the Brood Lord/Infestor.
Brood Lord/Infestor was in Wings of Liberty, they nerfed the Infestor to shit in HotS.
starcraft cringe anyone?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzMhh8zhTiY
>>335955358
>Updates too much and "rebalance" too often
Tons of fans complain about the exact opposite. A large portion of /r/starcraft are asking for patching to become more frequent like Dota.
>>335955402
Warcraft 1 and 2 involved getting a bunch of archers/huskars and gently pulling one enemy at a time to kill them one at a time with a grunt to tank.
Until you got catapults, in which case you would get one grunt to tank, an archer/huskar to pull aggro, then kill them one at a time with catapults.
Until you got Shamans/Wizards then you'd just send out infinite Demons/Elementals and have a couple archers to kill random ass dudes trying to kill your workers.
Unless you just wanted to spam Knights/Paladins as Alliance since barring the naval battles any map could be won with massed knights spamming heals with good micro on your part. Or half assed micro, it wasn't a huge deal really.
Warcraft III was the first Blizzard game where unit counters actually mattered outside of multiplayer.
>>335953028
Holy shit that match
>>335956252
I know, right? It's not something you would see in SC2 because of how different the game are.
>>335951387
Tanks absolutely blow the shit out of everything they fire at tho
Which unit is supposed to counters them ? Mass aircraft ? Goliath will be standing by with them
>>335956656
Unit spreading and good micro.
BW wasn't about "unit x to counter unit y", which is something too complex for dumbshit SC2 fans to understand.
>>335949454
I know 99% of the shitposters here are only talking about the story even though the story has been shit since Brood War, but here's what a longtime fan since 1999 thinks.
Despite the design changes in SC2 with shit like MBS, unit clumping, damage point, moving shot, and whatever other changes occurred mechanically, the game is still completely fine and has it's own nuances.
The main issue that plagued SC2 was the fact that it was released in the wrong decade. It doesn't help that Blizzard made the absolute worst UMS/custom game system any game has ever seen. It's like they wanted UMS to fail in SC2. You can't even blame it on MOBA's because they weren't popular yet, it was complete sabotage on their own part.
SC2 is like the first blizzard game where they completely ignored and shunned the casual player, so we couldn't keep any players in our community.
>>335956656
SC1 tanks had an overkilling mechanic: all the tank would fire at the sight of a single zergling meaning you could actually overtake them with mass zerglings.
SC2 tanks didn't have that, only one tank (or two if the gling is upgraded) would fire to kill the zergling so overwhelming them with zergling was much much harder.
>>335954067
>no hype around it
Oh it had hype, and it was just shit at launch and still pretty shit now.
>>335950356
Counters are TOO stron in sc2. One units counter can literally annihilate groups of whatever theycounter. Ex colluses vs marines and hydras or marauders vs roach
>>335957223
>colluses vs marines and hydras
Wow, a Tier 3 300/200 does well against Tier 1/1.5 units? How surprising!
on top of league of legends hitting it's stride while coinciding with wings of liberty, SC2 was just not that good.
On top of splitting the campaign into three parts, they did it with the fucking multiplayer too which pissed off and shrunk the multiplayer community considerably. Korea lost interest due to league of legends, most esports channels switched over 60-70% airtime to league when it was previously SC2.
Brood war made a comeback with HOTS in lots of parts of the world.
really, SC2 just suffered from poor timing, and poor business decisions both at once.
If WoL had come out 3 years earlier, it very well may have crushed the moba genre. the world was starving for a good RTS, there were a literal torrent of shitty games like R.U.S.E., the re-released "complete" version of CoH after sega acquired it (with all of it's issues that somehow got willed into existence after literally no mechanical changed, fucking sega), TC's endwar, etc etc etc.
MOBAs got there to fill the void first. They're more casual friendly yes, but it was largely timing.
>>335957505
His point is that you're supposed to compare this with SC1 where even groups of T1 unit can do well against T3 unit.
>>335956890
>>335957035
I'm asking that because I was trying to win random map against the AI the same way I do in AOM, by easily getting a huge macro advantage with a way stronger economy
Turn out you can't do that in SC1, when i pour my shit into 2 expansion they have a army and woe is me if they attack the main base
>>335957505
One unit that costs 2000 shouldn't be able to kill 25 units that cost 100 each.
>>335949454
>Why did Starcraft 2's popularity fall off so hard?
They fucked the gameplay, the script, the story and the voiceacting.
I'm feeling generous though, so I'll say that the music was ok.
I beat lotV around release but I can barely remember anything about it in terms of missions, what happened or what characters said. The only exception is Alarak which is voiced by Q.
>>335955925
>more frequent like Dota.
If by "frequent" you mean once every 5 months?
>>335957904
this. but it was dead to me with the voice acting, couldn't even make it through the story.
it's like Blizzard went from aiming at adults to aiming at children under the ages of 12.
>>335957793
You can do that and it's actually recommended if you're aiming for a long game, it's just that the AI in SC1 will attack rather early and frequently.
>>335950701
Ironically it's the lack of real and intelligent focus on "esports bullshit" that makes the gameplay so bad.
>>335958038
>it's like Blizzard went from aiming at adults to aiming at children under the ages of 12.
That's what they did actually.
Metzen made SC2 story so his daughter could play and understand it.
>>335957904
>the voiceacting.
>>mfw i can still remember artanis quotes from brood war but none of what he said in lotv
I've been producing content about this game since it went into WoL beta, so i guess i've "seen it all", so to speak, when it comes to SC2. There's a lot when it comes to saying what went wrong for sc2, but with no particular order:
>terrible terrible damage, and by extension, boring battles that focuse on pure damage instead of micro play and positioning like in bw
>new b.net being unsocial and with less features than BW b.net
>blob vs blob armies with one-control-group-syndrome
>no incentive to play other than "get better place on ladder"
>wonky balance for a long time
>no customization (skins, voice packs, etc)
>force fields
>immortals, marauders and roaches - the epitome of bad design
>bad unit design in general, which was first seen with the immortal - "tanky unit" that dealt 50dmg to armoured destroying everything, so you actually didn't want to tank with it.
>terrible "esports optimization" - no resuming from replay, no hot-join, no stuff like dotatv, no statistics, etc etc.
All these are pretty random and i actually don't feel like writing any more because that's what this game does to you - it discourages. Playing this game is so discouraging that i don't even want to write about what's wrong with it.
>>335956656
Zerg have mutalisks up before you have more than a couple of tanks.
SC1 was always a shit game, but people didn't have anything better in 1998.
People have (somewhat) better games nowadays, so why bother playing a remastered version of garbage?
Anyone who thinks good gameplay includes constantly moving your injured units to the back, hovering an engineering bay over an army to block attacks, or calling down a mule every 30 seconds has shit for brains.
Because i'ts an RTS focused on competitive play and with a strong base of mechanics.
Even most people on /v/ are too casual to get into it (just read this thread), imagine the rest of the world.
>>335949454
Fun to watch but very hard to play at a very comp level.
Assfaggots are way easier to pick up and master.
Assfaggots let you play with friends.
It wasn't free.
>>335958029
when dota does one of there 5 month patches they change 100s of things, thats not an overstatment, they change half there heros. add new items, change map layout,mess with runes and abunch of other shit thats to long to mention
when sc2 patches things you get -1 damage on adepts and then they talk about abunch of cool stuff that will never get put into the game untill they do another small patch in 6 months
>>335950609
There's a difference between "hmmm I think I will build in this order as my approach to this match" and "THIS IS YOUR BUILD ORDER COMPLETE IT WITHIN .000002 SECONDS OF THE MATCH START OR YOU'RE FUCKED."
first post is usually the best post
blizzard really is garbage now, its not just a meme to say that
few people know that starcraft 2's entire design was taken directly from a battle.net forum post, I still have that forum post, and the post was describing a new warcraft 3 expansion, not a new game
thats why the game is so shit, it doesn't have enough new material to be its own game
>>335960462
They literally just announced the first balance patch in 3 months
>Photon Cannon
>Anti-air damage increased from 20 to 20 (+10 bio)
>Thor
>Anti-air attack changed from splash to single-target
>Damage changed to 35 (+15 armored) every 2.14 seconds
>Only one hit per attack
>Liberator
>Anti-air damage changed to 4 (+3 light)
>Swarm Host
>Cost reduced from 200/100 to 150/75
> Supply cost increased from 3 to 4
>>335960696
So, what exactly are you complaining about there?
That you're forced to follow build orders? That's wrong, you can make your own, however, unless you understand the game at a professional level odds are that it'll be worse.
That you're forced to follow your build order as fast as possible? You're not forced to do that, however, this is a competitive game, if you follow it perfectly and your opponent doesn't, that gives you an advantage, that's not a problem of the game, it's what happens when you have a competitive environment.
>>335960696
motherfucker you have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
>>335960914
and its shit? wow ...
>>335961041
>you don't have to follow the optimal build order and timing, you can use your own, which will be an auto-lose because of how the game is designed! see, it's fine!
>>335949454
As a casual player, I lost interest around HOTS when I found out that there was only 1 or 2 new units for each faction.
The campeign (Which was shit), and a few units, isn't worth the full price of admission.
>>335949454
I can summarize the downfall of SC2 in one image.
>>335953028
But it was fun to play
>>335962531
>which will be an auto-lose
maybe at the GM/pro level. if you're not one of the top 0.1% of players, then doing whatever can get you all the way to masters easily
>>335962531
The game is not designed that way, your build orders just don't work because you don't know shit about it.
If any retard could come into the game and make up shit on the fly that was as effective as the one people that analyzed the game and played for years came up with then the game would be fucking garbage.
At the highest level build orders are constantly shifting, and to be at the very top you're required to renovate yourself constantly.
>>335950460
because unlike other games sc2 is a 1v1 game and "playing with friends" means either playing KotH/peepmode or team games, which are horribly unbalanced/short/retarded.
Brood War and WC3 both had solid custom games scenes to keep people playing with their friends.
>>335962723
yeah, fault lies with blizzard.
terrible balancing, no automated tournaments via b.net and the multiplayer shouldve gone f2p from the start.
>>335955686
>husky's last video was 1 year ago
JUST
>>335955230
>tfw can't even be bothered to read the pasta
>that's how much sc2 has dropped off my radar
>>335963472
no FUCKING CHATROOMS
no Clans
All this shit was staple in WC3, how the fuck did they just overlook including it at launch? These things are worth delaying the game for.
Though I had a terrible feeling about the game when they said it'd have two expansions before the first game was even out.
>>335958667
post your channel
>>335955113
>>335955230
>caring about the story
didn't even bother reading your post m8
It baffles me how people think Legion or Overwatch will be any better when Blizzard couldn't even make a decent game off the genre they had previously mastered.
Dota 2 and League of Legends are literal skinnerboxes that basiaclly blackmails the player into playing with their f2p model and constant content patches
what do you get with sc2? you get 2 new units each expansion, and now there will be nore more expansions
Hindsight is an exact science, but the RTS genre is dead and it should receive content patches and honestly, a lot of the game should be pruned and replaced with something else
The units are just fucking boring compared to brood war
>>335964417
There is no previous mastering, times are different. People want to play clash of clans, not the games they made in the past
And yes legion and overwatch will definitely be successes because they aren't falling into the same pitfalls again
>>335965152
>And yes legion and overwatch will definitely be successes because they aren't falling into the same pitfalls again
>Pruning is worse
>Garrisons are back
>>335965435
REMEMBER ME EDDIE?
WHEN I KILLED YOUR BROTHER?
I TALKED JUST LIKE THIIIIIIIIS!!!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADrojCw6amM
>>335963507
time to unsub anon.
Will Brood War rise again once SC2 gives up the ghost?
>>335949454
I'm going to say: HOTS and Blizzard.
The truth is you can't have an competitive e-sports game that's splitting it's community into 3 segments by their wallet.
Nor did not having lan help.
Wings of Liberty was extremely popular, with people like Idra being celebrities in the community.
Then they released HOTS, most of the pros quit, along with them the audience.
>>335949454
>The campaign is shit
>The story and characters were shit therefore people didnt get invested in it
>The custom game scene is dead
>Battlenet 2.0 alienated people from each other so no community could be made
>The patches never tried to balance the game just rotate the meta which created hartred in the player base
>Custom games never took off
>Once the pro scene started shrinking and fading away so did the top players except for the very top as theres way less money which caused the top of the playerbase to drop the game which caused a good chunk of the rest to leave
>Casuals alraedy dropped it but you can't blame them, like 5 years for the next game to come out
>The game is too cookie cutter and boring, one fight and the game is over
its like diablo 3, it was a shit game that that was designed to be shit on purpose that sold on the reputation of its predecessor
>>335966692
>most of the pros quit
Ive heard this before. Why to people say "most" when in reality it was like, 4 or 5 around that time.
>>335967464
Well I think pro's are weighted along with their fanbases. People like Destiny, Idra etc. MADE the american gaming scene.
Even though they were only a handful of people.
I still think the core of the reason in the split into 3 games, and lack of LAN.
>>335950910
I think your on the right track. Kotick's strategy of milking franchises to death as if they were plastic cups or washing detergent is at the heart of their troubles.
Splitting it up into one campaign per expansion was a huge mistake
>>335950484
>It's too easy and shallow for high level competitive players,
compared to what?
the skill ceiling in this game is absurdly high
>>335950484
The problem was that they didnt focus on making all units viable for all games and the economy too strict to allow you to build anything but the most efficient units and tech tree flowchart.
And they didn't make the micro focused on strategic and tactical focused. Instead they make all the micro shit that could be done by simple scripts and requires autism to enjoy for how repetitive they are.
So the game becomes an economy simulator
>>335949454
Apart from the mechanical reasons why it failed that have been listed, it failed because it cost money.
Starcraft 2 should have been a free to play game that sells the single player campaigns and subtle unit skins to make money, as well as giving you gold for playing it, that should be shared with hearthstone and other shit, to encourage you to go spend money there. Who the FUCK is going to spend $40 on an RTS game besides an RTS fan? A very small group as it is.
MOBA did not kill RTS. MOBA mostly got its users from casuals. Lack of good games and lack of a new audience that isn't mentally challenged is what killed RTS. If blizzard hadn't been such a piece of shit and made a Warcraft 4 long ago RTS might be at least as alive as fighting games.
>>335949454
One of the beta patches for LOTV removed Macro Mechanics & the game was way fucking better
But Blizzard being incompetent as usual went the whole "you think you don't want Macro Mechanics, but you do"
SC2 was way too hard & stressful on a casual level, it wasn't fun to play, designing a game for koreans with 400apm isn't good game design
>>335971893
thank you for saying the obvious
sc2 costs A LOT of money
other games are at the same quality and free, why should any1 spend money on it?
And another thing, dividing the game in 3 parts was a horrible idea
In the transitions from WoL to Hots and from hots to lotv we had a very weird scenario, the community was being split and no one was really focusing on anything with betas being released
>>335972126
>One of the beta patches for LOTV removed Macro Mechanics & the game was way fucking better
i fuckin loved that patch, never knew how much i hated macro mechanics before that
>>335972445
What are macro mechanics?
>>335972504
mule, larva inject, chronoboost
>>335972504
They work on micro machines.
>>335972928
