Was he in the right?
>>335764987
Kinda, but he threw a massive childish tantrum and lashed out at others all because he fucked up.
About how society sucks and such? Kinda, but its a little hard to take a dude who literally killed people seriously, which is why the Investigation team didn't even grace him with an answer.
That being said, he is still my favorite character in Persona 4.
Nobody except Naoto came up with any counter-argument beyond "NUH UH UR WRONG"
Of course
Adachi is the player.
>>335765268
>wasting time arguing with a dangerous lunatic who is quite willing to kill you
for what purpose?
Nah. We've all had thoughts like his but it's pretty immature to make it your world view. Still love him though.
>>335764987
Even he realizes he's an idiot who inevitably has to live by the world's rules in Ultimax. There's your answer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJi5C3JVlFY
>>335764987
Right about what? He was just waiting for everyone to turn into shadows. He killed two people in moments of tard rage so there's no real motivation for his actions except boredom.
>>335765428
They were already wasting time listening to him monologue, might as well crush his arguments.
>>335765268
I really like how the only reason the scooby-do gang were in the right was because they were physically stronger. They brought literally no counterarguments, and Adachi was completely right when he called them naive kids who knew nothing about the world. It sure is lucky that they beat him up, or otherwise he would have had the correct world view instead!
>>335766039
power of friendship my friend
a group of kids with powers>a single adult with powers
>>335764987
>be a pissy autist because life deals you cards that you don't want
>they aren't even bad cards, they're just cards that you don't want
>get an amazing power from shaking someone's hand
>use that power to kill two women who don't want to have sex with you and then play games with some teenagers
no, he wasn't
>>335764987
Of course not
>>335765268
You don't need a complicated reason for why killing women for spurning you is wrong. People who defend Adachi's actions don't seem to draw a line between his ideals and what he did. Adachi was a shitty, miserable person who felt that he deserved more. Then he began to believe the odds were simply stacked against him by design - that some people were just born to succeed so it was somehow their fault that his life didn't work out. Then beyond just abusing power to murder people as a game, he decided that since people aren't completely honest and straight forward that they would be better off living as shadows in a fog. Adachi was retarded because despite claiming to hate the world and everyone in it he couldn't stand to go out all on his own. That's essentially what the P4 cast tells him; if you don't like your life and only want to blame others rather than fixing it, then fuck off all on your own, just don't go dragging people down with you.
>>335766039
>I really like how the only reason the scooby-do gang were in the right
They were in the right, but they didn't have to explain it to him. I don't get why you faggots expect a bunch of teenagers to go and argue with the crazy psychopath who by all accounts, was responsible for almost killing them several times
He exists in a universe where he straight up couldn't be right by virtue of the fact that you can pretty much do anything you want with the powers he had.
He even operated within one of the nicest times in that universe to do so.
His argument might ring true for some people here, but that's because this is real life and you can't power through it all the time with psychic friendship energy.
Adachi was in the right place, at the right time, and he still fucked himself over.
>>335766704
>you can pretty much do anything you want with the powers he had.
What? How the heck could his powers help him? Become rich by stealing stuff using the TV world?
>>335766528
Because they tried, in like 10 different cutscenes
everytime he called them out on being naive retards with no actual life experience it was literally
"NUH UH WE ARE FRIENDS!"
In the golden animation, in his fight with Yu, Yu admits 100% that they just whitewash over the fact that they can't actually love eachother after seeing eachother's shadows, and that Adachi is correct about society
and then beats him up and pretends it never happened
>>335764987
>"the world is shit and all hope dies"
>"turning everyone into mindless shadows will surely make it better!"
>>335766845
When you put it that way, P4 really reminds of FFTA. They're both childish games that accidentally touch upon pretty mature and philosophical themes which you can discuss far more than the game devs intended.
>>335767097
I really don't know why they made it so childish. Every persona game beforehand (even 3) had some pretty mature, philosophical implications that were explored throughout the game.
Persona 4 had the capability to have a lot of depth, and they just made the party a bunch of naive retards that still win.
Although I suppose thats what the jrpg audience wants.
>>335767270
>>335766845
Look, I can understand your distate for the cast, but the fact of the matter is that adachi was a faggot, just as bad if not worse then the cast
having some sound ideas doesn't add up to justifying what he wanted to do.
I mean, he was wrong, the cast couldn't really argue the point, but they were still in the right. It's not like "being able to argue philosophy" should be expected of teeangers.
If anything, the fact that he was an adult and he was still such a huge chuuni just makes him more pathetic.
>>335765268
This.
"War Does Not Determine Who Is Right, Only Who Is Left" -Adachi
>>335767508
I never said he was right. But, his views on society and humanity were far more accurate than the main casts, it wasn't even close. That doesn't change that he was an incompetent, frustrated manchild and killed women because they didn't want to fuck him.
My distaste is more with the writers than it is with the characters.
His actions were wrong, but he was right in everything, including the way in which he called out the IT.
>>335767270
>Persona 4 had the capability to have a lot of depth, and they just made the party a bunch of naive retards that still win.
That's how it always is, anon.
>>335767850
>But, his views on society and humanity were far more accurate than the main casts, it wasn't even close
Yes, that was the point. The characters shouldn't be able to argue better just because they're the protagonists. They're still teenagers, trying to figure shit out. That's why he was able to rattle them.
I don't think it came trough thanks to the jrpg writing but the fact that the kids were able to realize he was wrong even though they couldn't quite explain why was meant to show that they were in the right path, but were still kids, with their life ahead of them.
>>335768161
That's an interesting view on it. However, if they were going to go with that route, they could have explained it WAY simpler than that, so I think it's you reading into it rather creatively rather than anything the game could communicate.
Persona 4 honestly has one of the worst and most polarizing casts I've ever seen in any video game period. I really fucking hope they don't repeat that shit for Persona 5.
>>335768345
But P4 was Atlus' honeypot for 8 fucking years.
I expect Atlus to repeat that formula or even make it worse in P5 despite their claims that it won't be shit.
>>335768321
You're probably right. Either way, the point of p4 is waifus anyway, so it's not like they needed to make a good main plot.
>>335768321
It's actually quite simple. You ain't gotta explain shit to a LITERAL MURDERER/attempted rapist.
The reasons why he's wrong are self-evident to any functioning human. Having the protagonists state it flat out would feel stilted and probably just make them look dumber for having to spell it out.
I think he was right but he dealt with it like a manchild instead of just accepting it like most people do.
>>335768558
Again, if they were going to go that route, they would have. Instead, they forced the protags to "try" to prove him wrong and get decimated logically repeatedly.
>>335768558
I kinda pity Adachi. Life gave him the short end of the stick and he reacted immaturely; now, he's pribably going to die in jail.
Although I believe that Ultimax and the epilogue were attempting to be somehow sympathetic with him.
>>335765268
Adachi's whole argument was 'society is trash, people aren't honest, I do what I want'
you don't need a counter argument to that. if people should be allowed to do whatever they want, they a bunch of kids should be allowed to stop a murderer regardless of why they want to.
>>335765601
holy shit
>>335768345
>Persona 4 honestly has one of the worst and most polarizing casts
Nah m8
P4 has the most popular cast.
They literally print money. It was plenty popular here on /v/ too, not sure why opinion changed. Either way, remember popular does not mean good so don't think I'm defending p4.
>P4 plot
>P4 characters
Literally shit
The only good characters are dojima, nanako andChie
>>335768917
you deeply have misunderstand adachi. His point was that everybody is a shadow on the inside anyways, but this society has become obsessed with hiding your shadow and pretending to be in "loving" relationships. In reality, people just hide their worst sides from each other. It's a dishonest, disgusting society where people who have terrible secrets take a moral high-ground over others.
Essentially, society would be better if everybody was just blatantly a shadow, as no bad person could judge another person under the guise of "justice".
>>335769059
>Chie
Don't let your dick delude you, she is shit.
>>335769173
She seems like that because she constantly need to protect the shit girl Yukiko
>>335768321
>>335768161
>why wasnt muh character this way
Shut the fuck up. Persona 4 was great and had a fantastic story and characters.
>>335769074
>>335768917
Those are his two arguments. His ideology has some shades of absurdism, too.
>>335769074
>In reality, people just hide their worst sides from each other.
I never got why that was a bad thing.
Having a bad side doesn't mean you don't have a good side. Doesn't mean your loving relationship isn't real.
Namatame did nothing wrong
>>335769074
>society would be better if everybody was just blatantly a shadow, as no bad person could judge another person under the guise of "justice".
>meanwhile Teddie, blatantly a shadow, is right there judging him
>>335764987
He was ruined by his motivation being I'M SO BORED AND BEING EVIL IS FUN HEHE. I really liked that he turned out to be the real culprit, but his motives were just so fucking idiotic that it felt pointless.
Not to mention the fact that he's just one of six red herring true culprits that the game constantly throws at you back to back with the same amount of THIS IS THE FINAL BATTLE mood. Each one just felt worse and worse. By the time I got to the true final boss, I stopped caring because I just expected there to be another AIDS clown lurking in the shadows.
>>335769252
She is still shit.
If you are gonna waifu someone who by all means is a boy who happens to do cute stuff from time to time, then just go all the way out and romance Kanji.
Dude lmao
>>335769345
He was a victim of the circumstances and got played like a fiddle.
I kinda feel bad for him.
>>335769332
it's touched on in Rise's dungeon and social link
some people find the notion that humans adopt different personas to interact with different people abhorrent, they think people have a 'true self' and everything that isn't 100% honestly is living a lie.
when in truth adopting a different persona is like shifting gears in a car, it all comes from the same engine, and even the kinds of lies you choose to tell is still an honest expression of self. but some people struggle to wrap their heads around that.
>>335769447
>one of six red herring true culprit
?
namatame
adachi
true final boss
That's 2 red herrings.
>>335769252
She's a total cunt to Yosuke even if he himself is a total faggot and has done terrible things like taking all his money he was saving for a motorcycle to buy a faggot shadow expensive clothes.
>>335769837
Also the whole crossdressing section
I know they are friends but damn they hates each other
>>335769790
you forgot Mitsuo and disco ball
but anon is a moron if expected minimal red herrings in a supernatural murder mystery
>>335769961
>Mitsuo
but mitsuo was so obviously not the killer, should he really count as red herring?
>>335769790
Not him but I expected Adachi to be the final one whats with the time skip and mood of the game
Suddenly you get a nameless character as your final boss. Nice game atlus
>>335769735
I would argue that you don't know anybody very well if you don't know their hidden feelings. Close friends sometimes accomplish that and stay friends, but 99% of the times the relationships fail.
Why? because all humans are shitty on the inside, and selfishness is in our nature, but society forces people to present themselves the best way possible, causing the next generations to grow up naively believing in friendship the way the investigation team does.
>>335770235
>Suddenly you get a nameless character as your final boss
your fault you forgot the shit with the gas station atendant. It was properly foreshadowed.
>>335770405
>properly
Love this meme
>>335770273
I would argue that you, like adachi, expect too much out of relationships. Friendship is not some sacred bond where you can expect someone to die for you or some shit.
>humans are shitty on the inside, and selfishness is in our nature
nah. People are selfish, that's part of human nature, but the idea that selfishness is inherently shitty is wrong.
>>335770652
I would argue that society romanticizes friendship to be exactly that. Look at modern media, and how children are raised (especially men) with the idea that you ARE supposed to be willing to sacrifice yourself for people you care about.
Society promoting altruism and naivete is what drove Adachi and many real people to madness when they bought it, and then realized nobody gave a fuck about them.
He was right but unfortunately p4 had some shallow writing and resorted to lazy, good guys/friendship always wins in the end and beats out all evil. This pretty much >>335765268
>>335769074
>>335769332
That's why Adachi is an idiot. The characters grow because they learn to deal with their bad sides and let it empower them. Adachi let his bad side consume him.
It's a pretty cool theme, too bad the game buries it under MUH FRIENDSHIP.
Its all dojima's fault
Why didn't he believe in Yu?
>>335770998
>after their friends beat up their bad side they just say fine i accept you
>their bad side disappears for the rest of the game
Wow, such character growth
>>335770652
Not him, but most of our actions are indeed selfish. It's part of human nature to try to gain something from relationships - friendships in high school, on the most basic and conceptual level are an example of this. To a certain degree, people had them to prove that they had a healthy social life and to blind social insecurity.
This carries over to stuff like romantic relationships, as I personally knew a lot of guys that automatically stopped talking to girls as soon as they rejected them. Even marriages can sometimes be used as a way to feel safe and secure, and even give a sense of accomplishment, as that is pretty much a social milestone.
Of course, these are generalizations and not every relationship, be it social or romantic, is like that. It's also more gray, but still.
>>335771194
That's what the social links were... Are you that stupid to not understand what was going on?
>>335765268
It would be so easy to prove he was wrong too. You can simply say that "everyone is equal under the law" to assert that Adachi must not get away with his crimes in the real world, but in the end they just told him "that's now how things work in our world" without actually stating why. It's implied that he wants to learn abide by the rules of the world now, but there would be no reason for him to do so unless the IT beat him in a fight.
>>335771321
>social links
>100% optional content
>in the main plot, even if you dont do social links with party members, you're best friends who accept eachothers shadows, and your best friends never have issues again
not to mention even then, how quickly the friends open up to eachother and how quickly they can solve their personal issues is incredibly unrealistic and stupid.
>>335764987
He was right about everything but the murder.
>>335771194
>their bad side disappears for the rest of the game
Yosuke is still motivated by boredom and wanting to be special. Yukari still wants someone to save her from her inheritance. Chie still shits on others to make herself look better. Naoto still represses her childish urges.
Even at the end of their social links, the root causes of these issues are still present, the characters just have a better understanding of themselves and are in a better position to do something about them than in the beginning when they were uncritical of their worldviews
>expecting a bunch of high school kids to make an argument against a working adult
>>335771321
>Optional content with literally zero bearing on the main plot except for some extra dialogue in Golden
wowie you sure showed me!
>>335771638
>Chie still shits on others to make herself look better.
Holy fuck, stop.
You're just shitposting at this point.
>>335771523
>>335771696
You fucking children. It's content, it's the story, and it's canon. Please kill yourselves.
>>335764987
He had a negative view point and saw life as a rigged game. You can see it like that. You can see it any way you choose.
For a manchild he was a lot more well spoken than the fucking teenagers I was supposed to be agreeing with. I'm not saying that Adachi is my hero or anything, he's an autist, but why did the writers just make them say "No u suk" over and over.
>>335771863
>can literally play the game where none of the characters ever mention their shadow again
>the characters are still a completely tight knit group of best friends with no other social lives for some reason
Yup. This makes perfect sense. Main party development should never be optional, you fucking retard.
Again, their shadows/dark sides are never brought up in the plot again.
>>335771997
I never said it should be optional. Are you trying to shitpost this hard? You aren't witty, you're aren't funny. Go back to jerking off over Adachi.
>>335766704
You can do jack shit with the powers he had. Except kill people or waste your time in a television world, killing shadows. Which doesn't have much pay off.
That is, unless gaining yen from the tv world is canon in which case you could farm yourself rich. Going back to 3, and the fact that your income is part of a social link or two, I guess it is canon.
>>335772108
You're using it as a way to defend the plot. It being optional means it doesn't intersect with the plot. are you a fucking retard?
Oh right, you sure are kiddo. good job
TUTURU
>>335766528
Because up until then it was all about talking your argument. They explained their cases pretty well, and then Adachi rolls around and it's like "YOU DID THIS" "I know, right? Isn't life shitty" "NO YOU ARE!"
I don't know. It was just a little jarring. Especially since Naoto was there and she's supposed to be rational and logical. She was being just as impulsive.
>>335769360
Teddie already developed an ego and a persona by that point so he's just another person.
>>335766845
Yu doesn't admit he's right about society at all. He admits that it's easy to whitewash, and that he did it as well, but the WHOLE point of the conflict is that he wants to show Adachi that it doesn't mean that Adachi is right. That there can be good things and life can be worth living. And he ultimately succeeds.
>>335772291
you are trying so fucking hard lmao
>>335772291
>all persona other than Izanagi are optional
>why does this game only have one persona?
>>335772407
aww widdle baybee doesnt have an awgument. does widdle baby need his mummy? its ok widdle baybee!
hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaha
>>335772517
that would be a good argument if him using personas other than izanagi were a major plot point
>>335771638
You're entitled to like P4 and its shitty story, but all of what you say sounds like a bad excuse for what is just a bunch of questionable decisions, lack of planning and all around a lack luster writting.
P3 had S. Links and it did character growth just fine.
P1 and the P2 duology while lacking S. Links, still had character interactions, well developed arcs, and ended up having more coherent stories.
P4 tried to integrate S. Links for all your party members. But this decision ended up putting the writters into a corner, since they locked the character's growth to optional and easily missable cutscenes.
>>335772540
People unironically take the time to type this out
>>335765268
Wasn't his entire "argument" simply "A idol didn't want to fuck me so society sucks time to kill everyone!"?
>>335772753
read the thread fag
>>335772753
No he didn't
He said everyone is hiding their true self
>>335772604
Doesn't that just reinforce P4's theme of friendship and accepting yourself?
>>335772861
How is that a justification for murder and rape?
>>335771997
>Main party development should never be optional
The game gives you the choice to interact with other people or not just like in real life. If you choose not to do social links then you're to blame for not understanding the characters. Social links are even built to support the gameplay so forcing character development is unnecessary and defeats the point of the game.
>>335768345
Persona 4 was Black and White, not counting Namatame who was a misguided grey. Persona 5 seems to be trying to be a sort of grey on grey, at least that's what the developers are claiming. I doubt it'll be so polarizing.
>>335772945
It's not. He was just making excuses when backed into a corner.
>>335772970
yeah, that'd be somewhat passable if the plot worked around that.
It doesn't, at all. It just goes on with the team acting like best friends even if you never fucking talk to them, and all of their problems plot-wise disappear.
You can't have it both ways. if its optional, the plot should still function, otherwise its not truly optional, is it?
It's like the abrahamic gods giving you the "option" to go to hell.
>>335768796
It didn't give him the short end of the stick. Keep in mind it's explained that his biggest gripe was that he was forced to study his ass off, and being the lowest rung on the ladder meant people treated him like an errand boy. It's kind of the point. Adachi never suffered a true event to justify his views.
>>335771997
>Main party development should never be optional
you must loathe FFVI, Baldur's Gate, KoTOR, NWN, Plansecape, and ME, then
>>335773127
I haven't played Planescape.
The rest of those games are trash, especially KOTOR and ME
>>335769546
I still don't get it. Was he supposed to be a guy or a girl?
>>335769074
>if everybody was just blatantly a shadow, as no bad person could judge another person under the guise of "justice".
If everybody was their shadow he would still end up looking bad.
None of the other characters shadows even came close to the skeletons in his closet
Yosuke: I don't really care about other peoples shit and just feign interest to be nice/get my dick wet
>Chie: I'm really self conscious and like that my friend is dependent on me
Yukiko: I hate this fucking town and want some dick
>Kanji: I'm self conscious about being seen as gay for my interests
Rise: I'm terrified that I'm perceived as a whore
>Naoto: I demand to be taken seriously
Now compare their worst to Adachi's worst he still comes out looking like a psychotic asshole.
>>335773239
Its a she
>>335772753
Something people forget is that Adachi doesn't actually have an "argument" as he isn't defending himself. He's justifying how he turned out to be such an asshole, but he fully admits that he's basically using his powers for evil for the sake of being evil.
>>335773198
You're a fucking faggot, kiddo.
>>335772970
Not him, but the issue is that the characters act the same whether or not you complete the S-Link. This flaw rears its ugly head when you realize that either the main plot has to be gutted without character development or the S.Links must be written 'safely' so as to not contradict the main plot.
As it stands, the character development in the S Links are just completely divorced from the main story and it shows.
>>335773320
>if I misrepresent their shadows they don't seem so bad!
Yukiko's shadow was based upon her feeling weak and hopeless for her future. Rather than trying to fix her life for herself, she tried to cling onto other people, "princes", to save her from her pathetic life.
Chie was Yukiko's best friend, and was the opposite. She felt like she was total shit as well, but tried to make up for that by taking advantage of dependant people like Yukiko to inflate her self worth.
I don't remember Yosuke as I didn't feel an ounce of empathy for him.
Same for Rise.
Kanji and Naoto's shadows were based upon them having identity issues, and constantly pretending to be people they weren't to cover it up. Essential teenage angst, but as they grew older they would develop tons of skeletons in their closets.
TL;DR you're a lying faggot
>>335773401
This
He never said he's right to kill people
He's just talking about how screw up the current society is and question what the IT think its the right way to live
>>335773401
This. He never really tries to justify himself and just kinda does whatever he wants because he's a pissed off manchild.
However, his views on the world are completely correct. When he says how everyone abides by double standards with their 'shadows' or how the world can fuck you over even if you put effort into everything he's completely right.
The IT never had a counter-argument for these truthsbecause they didn't need to.
>>335773320
What? Before killing Mayumi and Saki Adachi had pretty normal issues.
>>335773780
Honestly, Adachi's issues, aside from after killing those chicks, is pretty identical to Yosuke. And Yosuke was one little push away from killing Namatame, essentially becoming another Adachi himself.
playing this right now
am I getting cucked?
>>335773994
Shouldn't you be spending your time with Aigis instead?
>>335773994
nope, you're cucking the other dude before he even had a chance
reminder mitsuru is best girl
>ywn be pseudo NEET using mitsuru's money
>>335773597
>Yukiko's shadow was based upon her feeling weak and hopeless for her future. Rather than trying to fix her life for herself, she tried to cling onto other people, "princes", to save her from her pathetic life.
And what's so wrong about that?
>Chie was Yukiko's best friend, and was the opposite. She felt like she was total shit as well, but tried to make up for that by taking advantage of dependant people like Yukiko to inflate her self worth
Pretty benign
>Kanji and Naoto's shadows were based upon them having identity issues, and constantly pretending to be people they weren't to cover it up. Essential teenage angst, but as they grew older they would develop tons of skeletons in their closets.
Or like any other teenager they would get over it.
But you're right these examples of normal teenage angst are totally the same as being a psychotic serial killer how could I have ever been so blind?!
>people actually hates Teddie
Why?Granted I play the undub version so I might be spared from the shitty voiceI think he's the better one in the cast along with Kanji. The rest seems kinda static and shitty
>>335774106
His voice is far worse in Japanese.
>>335774025
no fuck that dumb cat
>>335774106
He's fine. Shame he didn't die to save nanako though.
>>335773994
Mitsuru slink is great
>>335774106
>le gay man
yawn
>>335774094
What's so wrong with trying to push your miserable problems onto others and hoping they'll eventually fix them for you?
are you fucking kidding me?
>taking advantage of dependant people for your own ego is "pretty benign"
Do you think when Adachi was their age, he had already killed people? no. He would have had similar issues, you're proving my point, you fucking moron.
>>335774145
>hating based Kappei
reeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>>335773780
He killed Mayumi while trying to rape her moron.
He was crazy to begin with.
>>335773937
There is a pretty big difference between killing in in revenge and killing because it was fun.
>>335774094
Did you not even read the guys post and discern what he was trying to say? Seems like youre blatantly trying to prove your point without fluently expressing yourself w/ correct wording
>>335766160
he had a fucking gun though man, a GUN. if it were on the real world he would shoot them on the spot if he knew he wouldn't get caught.
you know it's serious shit when an enemy has a GUN.
>>335774234
Killing is killing.
When you decide to become judge, jury, and executioner, that's when you fucked up.
>>335774231
I have nothing against the VA himself, it's probably the direction and character that are the problem.
Teddie is a very different creature in the English version, they changed his name after all.
>>335774106
I liked Teddie in vanilla P4. He became unbearable in everything afterwards.
pun not intended
>>335773937
Kind of a wasted opportunity imo desu
>>335774384
Gale and Cielo are best Megaten bros.
>>335774463
I always thought the game would've been better if anyone in your team is the actual culprit
But no can't have that
>>335773937
I was thinking about this, too. Their problems both boil down to boredom and general disatissfaction with life.
>>335774234
Her rejection was most likely the straw that broke the camel's back. But I srriously think that his issues are pretty normal and common. And my point still stands, his problems were common before the events with Mayumi and Saki.
>>335774195
>What's so wrong with trying to push your miserable problems onto others and hoping they'll eventually fix them for you?
>are you fucking kidding me?
Being a moody teenager is a pretty normal problem to have.
Being a serial killer is not.
>Do you think when Adachi was their age, he had already killed people? no. He would have had similar issues, you're proving my point, you fucking moron.
Is this like one of those after school specials where next you're going to tell me that if they have one alcoholic drink they are going to join the taliban?
I'm sure Adachi did have similar problems as a kid because everyone does the difference is sane people don't become murderers in response.
>>335774285
I did I just did not agree because it was retarded.
Adachi was a fucking psycho that desperately wanted to believe everyone else was just as much of a violent psycho as him despite the game showing that even at their worst nobody was as bad as him.
>>335774504
>not Daichi and Atsuro
>>335774686
Don't even come close.
>>335774350
Bullshit!, if you kill somebody in self defense it is ruled as justifiable homicide for a reason.
Adachi just liked killing which is not justifiable.
>>335771997
I love thr fact when you go through Yukiko, she has problems with running hte Inn, nothing really happens to show her it's worth running the inn. And in the end, she decides to run the inn anyway.
So even if you go through the main parties optional character development. It's still not fucking there.
>>335774686
>Grouping that loser Daichi with Atsubro
Don't ever talk to me or my demons again.
>people defending bitches and whores
Adachi is right
>he played with the japanese voices
What are you, some kind of Japanese anime elitist?
Do you hate your own language or something?if english isn't your native language then that's somewhat understandable, otherwise you have no excuse
Adachi's points are somewhat valid and even justifiable m. However, that all crumbles when he admits that he killed people simply because he was bored. Why the FUCK did they destroy his character like that. He went from morally grey criminal to psychopathic Saturday morning cartoon villain in an instant.
>>335774624
>Her rejection was most likely the straw that broke the camel's back. But I srriously think that his issues are pretty normal and common.
I'm sure they were but his reaction is neither common or justifiable which is the point of this conversation.
His "argument" was a appeal to the belief that deep down everyone is just as depraved as him which was observably false.
>>335772350
Not to mention teddie had been alive for what, less than a year?
I'm pretty sure he was simply copying what the group said. It takes years for someone to develop their indviduality. Teddie is just monkey see monkey do.
>>335774792
Let's say you speak English and not German. Do you watch a German film dubbed in English?
>>335774732
Revenge is not justification for murder either.
>>335774876
It depends if the dub is any good.
In Persona 4's case, the dub is pretty up there. There's no excuse.
>>335774625
I can't tell if you're purposely ignoring the actual salient point, or if you're stupid.
You're comparing Adachi's shadow self (which became the way it was not because he was inherently flawed, but because he was fucked with his whole life and then given a special power which drove him crazy) to the shadows of teenagers who have had barely anything bad actually happen to them. And even then, their shadows are actually pretty fucking bad, you're just downplaying it.
Trying to make somebody else deal with all of your issues for you and clinging to them for your entire life is not a minor teenage issue.
>>335774625
Not justifying adachi, but his viewpoints on the world are correct. Granted he's insane, but that doesn't mean that his ideals are automatically wrong, and vice versa, doesn't make the kids attitudes/behavior correct.
Yes, Adachi killing others is a big deal.
No, it is not acceptable for you to try and belittle the problems faced by MC and friends.
And before you say "how am I belittling their problems?"
"MUH MOODY TEENAGER"
"BENIGN"
"AT LEAST NOT SERIAL KILLER"
>>335773994
no you are the one doing the cucking, embrace it
>>335774941
Christ. I wasn't actually expecting you to say yes to that.
>a persona 4 thread without waifushit
color me surprised /v/
>>335774941
>here's no excuse.
>>335774987
Which Persona 4 girl has the warmest and most inviting pussy? I'd go with Yukiko. Naoto is dead last.
I wish Nanako was the killer, would actually be legit surprising honestly
>>335774792
>if english isn't your native language then that's somewhat understandable, otherwise you have no excuse
How so? Portuguese is my native language but if I think Japanese is more better I will listen to the Japanese. If the English is more better I will to the English.
How is that any different from someone who speaks English natively doing it? Just because English is his native language? That's silly.
(Unless we're talking about the weebs who will only listen to the Japanese version no matter what, regardless of quality).
I will never surrender on my opinion that Goku has the worst Japanese voice in the history of any voices, especially compared to the horrible Portuguese version.
>>335774778
Daichi is better, though.
>>335775051
What game has little girl as villain?
>>335774625
>moody teenager
Chie and Yukiko's relationship is problematic and it occurs in adults too. It's not okay for Chie to enable Yukiko's behavior to feed her own ego, and it's not okay for Yukiko to avoid her own problems and want others to save her from them. You are deluded if you think these are simply teenage problems.
>>335774987
Adachi makes everything better, anon.
>>335774792
P3/4 have some of the best voice cast in Japanese for a video game
I have no problem with dub but i want to enjoy the game in its best form
For example people might hate a character because of their shitty english voice but if you play in japanese you will have a different ideaI want to fuck Mitsuru's voice
>>335775073
It's even more silly to listen to a language you don't even understand.
It might be better or something, but you still won't understand it unless you actually know Japanese.. I'd much rather have a great dub than a potentially better sub. They're both great, I just prefer listening to and understanding what the voices are saying. It makes more sense.if the dub is completely awful and the sub is legendary though, that's another story.
>>335774981
I didn't say yes though, I said 'it depends'.
Because it does..
>>335774831
You're not getting what I'm trying to say - I never talked about Adachi projecting his shit onto other people; I only said that his issues are fairly common. Movies like Fight Club gain cult status because we live in a time in which people are facing serious existential crises and are not satisfied with their lives. Now, do the math - Adachi's problems are not special, they're common as fuck. Even I was like that from middle school to high school, since I was a Camus-obsessed brat.
>>335774953
>And even then, their shadows are actually pretty fucking bad, you're just downplaying it.
Which of their shadows expressed interest in murder?
Hell which of their shadows even expressed interest in anything illegal?
>insecurity
>emotional codependency
>apathy
According to you these are equal in terms of unacceptability to psychotic homicidal tendencies.
Everyone has bad shit happen to them most people don't think it justifies indiscriminate murder.
Probably because most people are not immature narcissistic fuckups.
>>335774963
>Not justifying adachi, but his viewpoints on the world are correct.
You mean as in "the real world sucks and people hide parts about themselves"? yeah sure congrats Adachi has the amazing sense of worldly understanding as a jr high student I'm sure he's the coolest kid in the cafeteria with philosophical insights like that one. But as far as the whole "I'm crazy so everyone else is as bad as me but not willing to show it" part goes he's demonstrably incorrect.
>And before you say "how am I belittling their problems?"
Then perhaps you should explain why they are so evil for their problems?
>>335775267
Rietsuru or Taratsuru?
>>335775289
Maybe it's a matter about growing up on subs (dub stuff for tv? Fuck that just release it with shitty yellow subtitles lol fuck that country).
Regardless of the language you know he's saying "get over here you fucking faggot!" because of subtitles. The importance is delivery in my opinion.
If the character is supposed to sound incredibly angry in the scene because of and X and Y. Nothing ruins the moment like someone saying that line in a mildly annoyed voice, like you took his pen or made a bad pun instead of actually sounding angry. It ruins the scene (see pretty much all of resident evil).
The persona dubs generally do a good job, I can't really compare to the Japanese dub because I never really heard it much. However the English dub did it's job. This is not always true.
>>335775476
>I only said that his issues are fairly common
Who cares?
Everyone knows the world is unfair, killing people because you don't like that doesn't make you some kind of hero it makes you a immature little bitch that can't hack it in the real world.
>>335775051
It would also be ridiculous and completely out of left field and a shit twist.
>>335775543
There's only one mitsuru
>>335775528
Jesus fucking christ you're dense. I didn't say any of them were as bad as adachi at that stage in his life, I said the fucking opposite.
When Adachi was their age, he didn't express any *interest* in murder or doing anything illegal. The opposite actually, he wanted to be a great officer of the law.
However, their issues (which you continue to downplay because they aren't MURDER) are serious (Being unable to handle one's own problems and forcing them onto others, lacking self confidence and feeding your ego by encouraging somebody to depend on you for long periods of time)
these are all serious issues that are IMMORAL and abhorrent. You refusing to admit that makes you seem unbelievably stupid. I never said it was equivalent to homicide, you stupid fuck. The entire point was that if everybody's shadows were out in the open instead of hidden in society, Adachi may not have been pushed to the point of becoming crazy and homicidal due to the judgements people who were "talented" and "better" made of him.
>>335775706
well not necessarily, if nanako had somehow managed to enter the tv world and actually had a shadow that fused with her like adachi it would be interesting. but that would require rewriting the entire story so yeah it's just a fantasy of mine.
or it could've been a joke ending in p4g
>>335775641
I agree with you. I honestly what your point is, I never tried to argue about tha; I just said that his issues prior to the Mayumi incident were common, while you said that the skeletons in his closet were Lucifer fucking Beelzebub compared to the shadows of the IT.
>>335775528
i'm not gonna argue with a weaboo piece of shit.
i didnt even play the game and i can clearly fucking see the problem with your argument. you can't be 18+ or youre actually fucking retarded which means words are wasted on you
>>335775870
>honestly what your point is
*honestly don't know what your point is
The actual ending is Yosuke pushing Namatame into the tv
>>335776009
nah the actual ending is letting nanako die and fuckoff back to the city
Thread theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElncnsQK-NQ
>>335775860
>rewriting the entire story
That's completely different and fine. The issue is within the context of the current story.
85% of detective stories fall flat on their face because they give no clues, completely false clues, tons of red herring, and then make the killer the person with the least amount of appearances whose lifestyle, health, scheduling makes it impossible for them to be the murderer.
The only hint shouldn't be, "well detective stories always makes the killer the one with the best alibi and the least motive to kill". That's shitty meta-knowledge. I'm a salty ass man and will never recover.
>>335775859
>When Adachi was their age, he didn't express any *interest* in murder or doing anything illegal. The opposite actually, he wanted to be a great officer of the law.
When Adachi was young is completely fucking irrelevant to the conversation at hand.
Who gives a shit what he was back when?
The conversation was if he was right to which the answer is a resounding no for the reasons I have painstakingly illustrated across the last few posts.
>these are all serious issues that are IMMORAL and abhorrent.
By who's standard?
Seriously explain to me like the retard you insist I am how any of the kids problems are near as monstrous as you claim they are?
>Adachi may not have been pushed to the point of becoming crazy and homicidal due to the judgements people who were "talented" and "better" made of him.
Adachi was a little bitch that couldn't hack it because "LIFE IS HARD!" you seriously think that in a world where people don't bother to censor themselves that he would last one day?
He probably would have skipped the murders and just blown his own brains out.
>>335775907
>i'm not gonna argue with a weaboo piece of shit.
I'm the weeaboo?
I'm not the one defending "muh husbando" tooth and nail
>>335775907
>i didn't even play the game
That's obvious
Yes, he's white.
He's always right.
>>335776317
I DIDNT EVEN PLAY THE GAME FUCKING MORON, HOW COULD I BE INTERESTED IN A FAKE RELATIONSHIP WITH A CHARACTER THAT I DONT EVEN KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT?
>>335776317
shut up nerd go outside lol get laid
cash
>>335776317
Who gives a shit what he was back when?
Because you are comparing the problems of an adult to a bunch of kids and saying "well this kids don't have serious secret so Adachi implying most people do must be wrong" and that's fucking stupid
>>335776317
Your hatred of Adachi is pretty pathetic tbqh.
Maybe you see yourself in him which is why you're sperging out.
>>335776317
alright, it seems like the entire nature of this conversation is going over your head. I'm gonna post this last one, and then I'm done. Maybe you'll figure it out when you graduate high school.
You're comparing a person who has already fallen to insanity due to being fucked in life repeatedly, to teenagers who have very serious issues (By anybody's standards, clinging to somebody and pushing your problems onto them is immoral, and taking advantage of a dependant person solely to feed your ego is also immoral--this isn't some kind of crazy grey area)
>adachi was a little bitch that couldn't hack it because "life is hard!"
According to you. But that's not what we were talking about to begin with. We were talking about the fact that their own shadows were all fucked up, and any single one of them had the potential to become crazy, just as any human being has that potential.
Was Adachi murdering people right? nope. Was he a mentally strong person? Probably not. But that doesn't change the reality that people hiding their shadows was a fucked up aspect of society, especially a society that was based upon having solid relationships and "true" friendships where self sacrifice and loving others just like yourself are big values. It's all bullshit, because all people are selfish.
You ignore this, and continue to say "YEAH WELL UHH ADACHI WAS A MURDERER AND THOSE TEENAGERS WERENT"
ignoring the different life experiences and implications of their world-views, as well as their environments growing up.
>>335776317
>He probably would have skipped the murders and just blown his own brains out.
Fuck you now I imagine Adachi in Persona 3 tagging along with revolver jesus
>>335776317
>>these are all serious issues that are IMMORAL and abhorrent.
>By who's standard?
Seriously? You're making the claim that Adachi is immoral and abhorrent by your own standard and you ignore and downplay the problems that the IT have by your own standard thinking that immorality works on a sliding scale. Believing that certain acts are more immoral or less is subjective and completely arbitrary.
>>335771153
Why didn't Yu just stick his hand in the TV?
>>335776416
white pls go
>>335775289
>It's even more silly to listen to a language you don't even understand.
I dunno. I like quite a few games with garbled or distorted nonsense speak, just cause it fits with the vision the creators had for the game. Rayman 2 and Animal Crossing being good examples. Or Midna's speak in TP.
>>335764987
He was right that the world isn't the nicest place, that you can get fucked over by circumstances beyond your control and everyone is fairly two-faced.
But what Adachi neglected to see was how much good there can be in the world in spite of these things.
>the lowest IQ member in the group (Chie) always provides the best clues on the case
kek
>>335777306
I'm pretty sure Kanji is dumb as bricks
>>335777426
Sexually insecure bricks.
>>335777306
>3 retards (Chie Kanji and Yosuke)
>clever but lost a screw in the head Yukiko
>a fucking fox who ask you to pay for SP
>investigation team in a murder mystery game
Yu doesn't count since he's your avatar so he can be stupid or clever depending on your choice. Naoto should've joined them earlier
JUST
>>335778007
Jew Fox is the best P4 character.funky student second best
>>335775142
I liked Daichi because he was always 100% honest and both viewed the protagonist as his superior without jealousy while striving to be a great person in his own right.
>>335776919
>You're making the claim that Adachi is immoral and abhorrent by your own standard
Murder and rape are considered immoral by pretty much everyone's standards.
>and downplay the problems that the IT have by your own standard thinking that immorality works on a sliding scale.
Well you are free to explain why their problems are so terrible like I have asked you to multiple times but I doubt you will.
>>335776708
>According to you.
According to him
>>335776708
>It's all bullshit, because all people are selfish.
It isn't though since yes everyone has negative aspects to their personalities but what matters is what you actually do about that. It is preferable keep that negativity to yourself and express it in minute harmless ways from time to time rather than take it into the real world and act like a prick to people.
Just because you have these negative aspects to yourself does not negate the fact that most people also have positive aspects to themselves.
>You ignore this
No I'm refuting it.
The question was "Was Adachi right?" He believed that everyone was like him because they hide parts of themselves, but 1: those parts they are hiding are not comparable to what he is and 2:They still choose to not take their problems into the real world and use them to hurt others. from these two facts we can determine that No he was not right.
>>335776518
Why are you even in this thread?
>>335776653
His problems are comparable to theirs because his problems are those of a immature manchild.
> We were talking about the fact that their own shadows were all fucked up, and any single one of them had the potential to become crazy, just as any human being has that potential.
And yet most do not, what does that say to his character?
>>335778548
>And yet most do not, what does that say to his character?
Nothing, it says things about the environment and circumstances he is in
>>335778941
What about his experiences are so special?
>>335779180
The result of them
>>335779217
that isn't a answer
your argument is that his actions are justified by the rarity of his troubles so list them.
>>335779282
>your argument is that his actions are justified
There is a difference between the reason of something and its justification, Adachi wasn't justifying his actions
>>335779476
then what exactly is there for him to be right about?
>>335779524
His view of the world
>>335774941
>either of the P4 english dubs
>>pretty up there
>>335778548
>Murder and rape are considered immoral by pretty much everyone's standards.
Appeal to popularity is not a satisfactory proof of immorality.
>Well you are free to explain why their problems are so terrible like I have asked you to multiple times but I doubt you will.
Apathy and identity issues are not terrible problems by themselves so I will not elaborate on those. Chie and Yukiko's relationship is clearly immoral since Chie removes Yukiko's individual agency, and Yukiko willingly allows it. It is self-gratification on Chie's part and cowardice on Yukiko's. To infringe on another person's ability to act for themselves is a breach of their right to be their own individual and it weakens them. Murder, for whatever reason, is to infringe on one's right to live. Both of these things are categorically immoral on the basis that they deny individual agency in the matter. If you want to claim that murder is more immoral or that enabling dependent behavior is less so then explain why. Otherwise, your claims are completely arbitrary.
>>335779745
>Appeal to popularity is not a satisfactory proof of immorality.
Not that anon but
> immorality: conflicting with generally or traditionally held moral principles
>>335774106
>the sound he makes when walking
did they fix that in the vita version?
>>335779585
you mean in the plainly obvious to fucking everyone "life is hard and people keep secrets" observation that a toddler could give?
WOW it's fucking nothing!
>>335779745
>Chie removes Yukiko's individual agency, and Yukiko willingly allows it
then where is the issue?
> Both of these things are categorically immoral on the basis that they deny individual agency in the matter.
except they don't
in your own words "yukiko willingly allows this".
>If you want to claim that murder is more immoral or that enabling dependent behavior is less so then explain why.
None of Adachi's victims consented to be muurdered.
that's like saying charles manson was right because he has stated prior that 2+2+4
>>335779928
That annoyed me as well. Also considering since he's the only guy with Traesto (I didn't really know how to fuse one with the skill back then) I always bring him along
>>335779941
Would you say that murder is right then if the victim is too weak to resist? Yukiko was willing of course, but she could not stand on her own allowed Chie to take advantage of her. Adachi was able to murder his victims by overpowering them physically and using the TV, while Chie was emotionally overpowering.
>>335779941
>that's like saying charles manson was right because he has stated prior that 2+2+4
And if charles manson stated that 2+2=4 he would be right, was the problem?
I'm afraid that going to "he wasn't right" to" the thing he is right doesn't matter" is moving the goalpost
>>335774941
if its the vanilla edition. the vita dub kinda suffers thanks to chie and marie.
>>335779838
Well I'm trying to argue from an objective view. If that anon wants to argue based simply on what the majority of people believe then his views are vacuous and without grounds.
>>335780094
>Would you say that murder is right then if the victim is too weak to resist?
No
Also it takes a especially flexible degree of stretching to claim that standing up for your friends and taking pride in the fact they can depend on you is comparable to murdering people you see on tv because you're bored.
>>335775051
doujima should have been the killer.
>>335780212
He wasn't right though.
His argument didn't end at "The world sucks and people hide parts of themselves" you simpleton it was followed by "And everyone is like me deep down so it's okay if I kill people"
the goalposts haven't moved.
>>335774941
>>335779706
>>335780247
>you could have great jap VA like Yui Horie and Kana Hanazawa
>settled for shitty third rate english VA
Dubfags baka
>>335775476
>takes Fight Club seriously
grow up man.
>>335780094
If might makes right then Adachi would still be wrong since he got his ass handed to him by some teenagers.
>>335780306
He's also the only one who suspected Yu
>>335780282
That is a strawman argument. If Chie takes pride in infringing on her friend's individual agency then she would be immoral to do so as I have previously explained. Yukiko is also in the wrong for allowing this happen because she wants someone to save her from her problems.
I can see that we're going in circles here because you are refusing to admit the flaws in your argument. If all you're going to do is put up a strawman in defense then you've admitted that you have failed to substantiate your claim that murder is more any more moral than other immoral acts.
>>335780413
>might makes right
That's not what I was trying to claim at all. Adachi was clearly wrong to commit murder.
>>335780278
>If that anon wants to argue based simply on what the majority of people believe then his views are vacuous and without grounds.
I'm afraid some thing are intrinsically intersubjetives, morality being one of them
>His argument didn't end at "The world sucks and people hide parts of themselves" you simpleton
Ha, let me ask you something, who was the "simpleton" oversimplifying Adachi views into that?... It was you! and now you need to backpedal from that because is your strawman is not convenient anymore
>>335780587
Meant to quote >>335780364 for the second quote
>>335780587
>moving goalposts yet again
>I'm afraid some thing are intrinsically intersubjetives, morality being one of them
Then you admit your views are arbitrary? If you claim that your view is merely subjective then there's no point in going any further.
>>335766495
Jeez, calm your autism buddy.
>>335780678
When did I move the goalpost? and how could I change the goalpost more than once if I have only reply to you twice?
>>335778007
Naoto was useless and dumb as hell with the way she got herself kidnapped and didn't even set up some cameras to record who did it.
If Raidou was in Persona 4 he would of solved the entire case and got rid of Inzanami in just one day.
>>335775051
>>335764987
no he was a commie bastard
>>335764987
no, he's an entitled little shit who's only motivation for joining the force is "to carry a gun" that got shipped out to the sticks when he fucked up in the line of duty.
he then is then directly responsible for two deaths, and aided the kidnapping of several others and fled arrest.
I give him a bit of a pass on the whole destroying the world thing, cause he was possessed at that point. but he's still a waste of matter.
DeSu > DDS > mainline > Persona > other spinoffs
prove me wrongyou can't
>>335787093
>putting DeSu and DDS above mainline
>>335788068
>posting the worst SMT
>>335786762
>only motivation for joining the force is "to carry a gun"
nothing wrong with that
>directly responsible for two deaths
indirectly. He only threw them in, the Shadows killed them because they didn't git gud
>aided the kidnapping of several others
all he did was push Namatame further towards doing it
>>335788138
>having such shit taste
Here's your (Hoy)
>its a smt hijack episode
>>335788316
Is SMTIV the only SMT where the law route is explicitly and unequivocally wrong because of the events of SMTIV Final/Apocalypse? I mean, SJ's law ending is fucked up but it doesn't outright state that you chose wrong.
>>335788262
And Charles Manson did nothing wrong
Literally Elijot rogers
>>335780389
Late reply, but I don't take it seriously. I was just saying that it gained a cult status despite being a film that isn't really special in any area.
>>335775641
Where did the idea that sitting back and doing nothing because you're too scared to or to lazy to is more mature than actually taking action against an unfair world come from?
All humans aren't shitty and selfish inside. People don't have a bad and good side they are one person. People aren't inherently selfish only striving for their own good. People being good to others isn't an act. People wouldn't commit selfish acts and abuse/hurt others if they could do it without getting caught. Only subhumans would. His view on humanity is twisted and false. You are immature if you think his view on humanity is correct.
>>335776317
Police school reject spotted. Were you manlet, over 400lbs or just too autist to pass the tests?
>>335789627
No, Ellot Roger, the crazy loon, at least had the guts to do the horrible acts he did himself. That's where it ends. Adachi's such a bitch that even with his opponents starring him in the face , he refused to accept that he did anything at all, putting the blame on the idiot, putting the blame on other people for his fucked up life. He finally matured a little bit by arena but it's far too late to fix anything he's done now. That's why I felt so disappointed in him, Why should I feel sorry for a man who clearly had no ambitions to better himself? He didn't even bother to learn how to cook,his ideal woman is somebody who personality wise sounds like a servant or a mother and the biggest problem he had was his own projections of people, Mitsuru and Yukari had this issue in Persona 3 with how Mitsuru barely understood her cohorts and how Yukari always assumed the worse of people such as thinking Mitsuru was a devil, Fuuka was being forced into SEES and in the answer, everybody was running away from the issue, okay, she was right about that last one,but still, she,too was running away by trying to cut herself off from everybody because she didn't wanna get hurt again.
