Gentlemen, this is the new stats window in Legion.
Thoughts?
>>335125947
whenever i begin to think that WoW couldn't possibly be simplified anymore, Blizzard continues to blow me away
i mean, how much more can they cut and still claim its an RPG? i mean, i think Fallout 4 has more RPG elements than WoW does currently...
I love the new Diablo!
>>335125947
L-legion will be good guys i swear!
>>335125947
Seems good. Now I don't have to waste time looking at other useless stats.
>>335125947
i see no problem with it. people will complain though
>>335126063
Yes, they "cut" display of useless stats from the window. What a fucking crime.
I mean shit, I refered to strength on my SPriest all the time!
>>335125947
Are attack power and spell power out of the game?
Also, is critical strike universal, not specific to certain types of attack/spells? I remember some talents giving +crit only for certain attacks or abilities.
>>335126063
I sure loved stacking int on my hunter.
Also I just LOVED trying to get my hit cap just to do content, that was so much fun.
>>335125947
Glad I quit a little after the start of Wrath. Item level is a horrible implement, and the game is purely different than its vanilla version.
>>335127196
Wizards don't need Charisma or Wisdom in D&D but everyone would cry foul if they'd try to remove the stats from the class because it's a clear sign of pandering to the retards (You).
>still caring about neo-blizzard shit
>>335126063
>Needing to know your intellect, spirit, mana regen, and strength as Rogue.
desu the only thing they need to add is movement speed, other than that there is no reason to display a bunch of useless stats your character can't use (new gear with those stats just greys them out)
>>335126858
L-Legacy servers any day now, right g-guys?
>>335127374
>Rogue
meant Hunter but the same shit applies
legitimizing GS was the worse thing blizzard ever did.
>>335125947
Lot more cleaned up than what we currently have to deal with, which is a fucking mess.
But, of course, /v/ will complain about it because it's not muh Vanilla.
>>335127207
attack power and spell power are just tied in to your main stat now (str, ahi, int) and spirit is now exclusively a mana regen stat only used by healers
Following Bethesda's ways, aren't we, Blizzard?
lol faggots if u want vanilla just play private server u'll quit in a week becuase it was shit
wowfags will complain about anything
>>335126063
>remove questing
>remove overworld
>remove leveling up
>only leave a single city as a hub with portals leading to raids
>at some point replace that last city by a lobby screen made with adobe air
>remove all item slots except for 1 weapon, 1 armor
>remove all other stats and just leave item level to scale with the chosen class
>remove all abilities except for 4 for each class
there is still so much more room for simplification
>>335127571
YOU THINK YOU DO
BUT
YOU DON'T
>>335127467
this.
the new display shows stats relevant to you instead of an entire screen of "you gain no benefit from this stat" when you mouse over them.
i guess they COULD add attack speed for the non-casters and the Defense list for tanks.
>>335125947
>gnome hunters
>>335127467
Because its mmoRPG with less stats then some fps
>>335127707
if u do why is there no one on private servers their complete ghost downs
>14k Stamina
let me guess, it's like 500k health? What happened to flattening the number curve?
>>335127707
>responding to literal children
>>335127769
we are literally going to kill the legion this expansion, health is important i guess
>>335127313
Pretty sure they've just hid most of the stats behind the arrow on the lower right corner, just like diablo
>>335127662
chances are, most of the current playerbase would hardly even notice / care
>>335127769
They fixed this with the stat squish before WoD.
They could do it again for this expansion but who knows, they might. I don't know how difficult it is to implement if it's any difficult.
>all these faggots missing the point
The fact that "these stats are irrelevant for you" is the problem itself. If 2/3rd of the stats are completely omissible, then 2/3rd of the game's RPG mechanics don't fucking work.
Seems neat and all, but the old stat system gave the illusion that the stat system had more depth than in reality, so its a shame what it is now.
But I guess it doesn't matter since game is ancient by now.
I haven't played since Wotlk, so I guess most players won't give a fuck either way.
>>335127895
>The fact that "these stats are irrelevant for you" is the problem itself.
This. Also what made the itemization in D3 so fucking shit.
>>335127746
>Removing useless fodder shit is somehow bad
>>335127990
>but the old stat system gave the illusion that the stat system had more depth than in reality
How is this a good thing?
>>335127467
>no movement speed to track buff effects
>no bonus armor
>no leech
>no avoidance
>no multistrike
you're only down to 7 fucking stats. That's a little bit more than cleaned up. You don't even see any defense stats now unless, I'm assuming, you're a tank.
Also, I'm sure having "item level" as the biggest, clear and most obvious number was totally unintentional
>>335127895
>>335128038
What do you think of spells scaling with stats?
If a fireball is deal X+2x intelligence in fire damage, and ice armor is give X+2x spirit in armor and such?
Warriors can have their heals be based on spirit, their crowd control be based on intelligence, their damage based mostly on strength, some movement skills on agility, etc.
It shouldn't be hard to give all classes spells that scale from all attributes.
>the biggest number is the item level
I remember when item level became a thing in Wotlk with that stupid gearscore mod. That's when the community really went to shit. I can't believe Blizzard actually implemented it into the actual game.
>>335127895
intellect is for spell casters
strength is for melee fighters
agility is for rogues and hunters
spirit is for healers
how is that bad RPG mechanics?
I'm not saying WoW is fucking perfect but what's the point of say, mana regen on a class that does not use mana?
Is it bad RPG mechanics to not give mana regen to a class with no mana?
All the secondary stats (as stupid as the may seem) can be used in any scenario by any class however, albeit some combinations are better than others.
At least they haven't dumbed it down to one 'Power' stat or some shit.
>>335126063
WoW was never a RPG.
>>335128038
>>335127895
If I'm a Hunter, why the fuck would shit like Parry, Dodge, Strength, Spirit, and Intellect benefit me?
Is there design space for a new heroic class after Demon hunters? I can think of some ideas but I doubt they would be what Blizzard are planning for WoW
>>335128160
It works because there's only one single way to play each class.
Even in vanilla, sets were pretty much made for you, you had no say on which stats you wanted.
>>335128086
yeah item level was a huge mistake that happened due to players using gearscore in WotLK. Raiding was pretty bad for new players because of that but I guess raid leaders had an easier time.
i gues blizz decided to cut out the middle man
>>335128160
Why not make it
>intellect is for spell damage
>strength is for melee damage
>agility is for debuffs
>spirit is for healing
>stamina is for resisting debuffs
Make every class able to make some limited use out of every stat.
Give mages some boulder spell that does damage based on strength, or pushes enemies away based on strength.
Give warriors some heal that scales off spirit. Gives priests some mobility skill that scales of agility.
You will still have a primary stat, but you will make use of all stats, in one or another way. Would also introduce more fun, if suboptimal, ways to play.
>>335128038
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=22479
They've been progressively taken steps forward, back and side-stepping for a decade. Like strength used to be fine for a rogue just not optimal then they decided it would make sense if it was not worth it all together.
>played since vanilla until start of cata
>27 year old white male
>never rp-s
Redpill me on legion, i am frankly bored and need to kill time, but i feel wow is past its prime.
>>335127895
Only in theory, it's not like in vanilla niche specs with out of class stats were viable outside leveling or pvp except for some cases, it's not a single player rpg it must be balanced. Not that current wow isnt unbalanced shit all the same despite the removal of stats, i hope the pvp talents fix it somehow.
>>335128154
I agree.
But if you're Blizzard how do you put a stop to this? Even if you remove item level from items, some addon is just going to calculate it for you anyways.
What can be done when the whole community is doing it?
I have zero issue with most of the content or changes since Vanilla, this change included.
There are 2 real issues with the game:
>no effort required to progress
>complete lack of community
It's so easy to see every boss, every quest and do every dungeon in the game now that there is no sense of accomplishment.
And the fact that you can do everything without ever opening up vent or even typing in raid chat or even playing with your own realm just makes it that much worse.
Current WoW without:
>dungeon finder
>raid finder
>crossrealm
would be great. (I'd also want to remove transmog, dual spec and every landscape change made with cata but they aren't major)
>>335128375
>redpill me
You are lost, just end it.
>human beings willingly play WoW
>>335128351
I guess that would make more use of stats but how much gear would be deemed useless for certain classes?
Like a gear with a lot of intellect and agility for example would not be used by warriors. You would end up with the same thing of certain stats just being used for certain classes.
>>335128415
>I'd also want to remove transmog, dual spec
Fucking kill yourself.
>>335127313
Too bad Wisdom and Charisma are still important boost stats for saves and/or skills so while they're not a wizard's primary stat you still need to know the values for applicable skills and checks. Meanwhile strength and agility have no numerical value at all to a mage in WoW in any circumstance.
Enjoy your (you).
>>335128351
If it's suboptimal it's not going to be played.
Also if they make other stats viable, they're only viable because in certain situations, they're the best for a given area or encounter, which will bring back the fucking horror that was having to have like four sets of gear for raiding depending on shit like resists, and that sucked fucking ass.
I don't mind having different gear from back in like EverQuest because different pieces had unique benefits, but stats aren't the way to do it.
>>335127746
It has less stats than the fucking Warcraft 3 hero units.
>>335128409
They could stop the "every new tier is better than the one before" and instead make new gear on the level of the old one. All dungeons drop the same ilvl, all heroic dungeon drop the same ilvl, all the raids drop the same ilvl.
It would require a complete change of how wow works though.
>>335128415
Dual spec was one of the few 'quality of life' implementations that was actually worthwhile and useful.
>>335128375
I'm gonna buy it since I come back to WoW to raid and then quit when until new content comes.
From what I'm seeing it is looking to be better than WoD although that could change since WoD seemed better than MoP and then turned to utter shit.
>>335128570
Warcraft 3 heroes had 3 stats
>>335128506
>Like a gear with a lot of intellect and agility for example would not be used by warriors.
If they have abilities that depend on INT they may choose to use it.
Warriors can have spells that are not melee damage (STR), not debuffs (AGI), not healing (SPR) and they can scale from INT.
Heroic Throw, some armor self buff, spell reflect, etc. I haven't played the game in a while, I don't remember what they have.
Still, I think that every class should be able to make some use out of every attribute.
>>335128675
Yeah, and now you have two.
>>335128252
I can't think of any niches that need filling, and Blizzard is too creatively bankrupt to come up with something legitimately interesting, so expect the next class to be something lame like "Pyromancer" or "assassin" or something.
Why not just make everything based around Attack and Defense stats? All these random stats are triggering so many players.
>>335125947
They've been obsessed with simplification ever since League of Legends jacked their playerbase.
>>335128727
Agility/Stamina/critical strike/haste/mastery/versatility
vs
Strength/agility/intellect.
>>335128727
Where did you get that
>>335128745
>Pyromancer or Assassin
Mage and Rogue, retard.
>>335128252
>>335128745
I think a Tinker class would work. As long as they made it Gnome and Goblin only. Give it a starting zone like a school or some shit for tinkers.
>>335128824
Literally my point but it's good to know you struggle with basic english.
>>335128858
That would require gnome and goblin lore. They're the original joke races of Warcraft(sorry Pandaren). It's not happening.
>>335127336
Fuck off neo-/v/
>>335128745
Necromancer/Acolyte/Necrolyte type hero.
Runemaster or Spellbreaker, some sort of Alchemist or Technician if the professions get changed to free up abilities.
Witch Doctor, Spirit Walker, Warden, Mountain King, etc from lore.
>>335128929
Why would it? All they have to do is put a side story to an expansion like an arms race between the horde and alliance that would warrant for both factions to have tinkers
>>335128745
I can think of 2 niches: a healer without mana that get his resource from the damage the party member receives through a buff he has to keep on casting through the whole fight, and a buffer class that does low damage on its own but has a number of channeled spells that increased the damage someone do. Make it each spell work only for healers, only for ranged, only for melee, with a debuff that prevents new casts, the challenge of the class would be rotating between your party members.
>>335128858
Engineering?
>>335128994
>Witch Doctor, Spirit Walker, Warden, Mountain King, etc from lore.
Already covered by old classes.
>Necromancer/Acolyte/Necrolyte type hero.
Like a death knight but full caster?
>>335128375
They've beyond run out of ideas.
Announcing demon hunters seems to be pandering to the people wanting to live out their wc3 fantasies when they asked 5 years ago. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't already have literally every spell of theirs in the game already as well as multiple inspirations for other spells and aspects for classes. They don't even have 3 talent specs because they can't fucking think of anything new. Their fresh, class-defining spell is "double jump." So even though all their spells that we remember are in for rogues and warlocks already, they panicked I guess, decided to double back and give them back to the demon hunters. Literally remove spells that demonology warlocks use and make them a demon hunter spell again.
Since the game has been out for so long and characters have been killing every challenge they got for 10 years, blizz decided the "random adventurer" thing is over and decides to make everyone "the chosen one." This doesn't work when you realize that WoW succeeded all along by not doing the chosen one bullshit and had everyone as some nobody being part of a team. Also this means your alt that you just made is as important to the story as the guy who has "The Scarab Lord" title. Everyone now is the leader of their class in the guild hall and everyone now gets an artifiact weapon that they can reforge into another elemental version of the weapon. So now a paladin named "Sephirrotth" in full purple judgement transmog wielding Ashbringer's thunder version is the leader of all paladins.
Those are the most egregious aspects. There's still further talent and spell pruning as well as multiple endgame and difficulty changes. Have fun playing the same raid 5 times because there's 5 different difficulty settings for EVVEEERYONE!
>>335127248
There was no issue with hit cap itself, there were just issues with the way you get it, and it is an old game with an outdated engine.
Hit cap is just a progression milestone. It teaches you to manage your stats, you could pour everything into hitcap but you wouldn't hit too hard as a result, you needed a softcap for mana regen in TBC but your heals would be weaker if you just gemmed into that etc. It was a requirement which even when you reached made you weaker in other aspects.
The bad design of it was how it was obtainable and that there were no in game clues/guides to do it, you'd have to go research on your own and a lot of people didn't even know they needed it till they joined a raiding guild. Not to mention the difficulty of obtaining items, and on top of that specific items. You'd have to farm the same item all the other people of your class were farming, it was based on RNG and you could still lose the roll. You could craft your own but that was a long and expensive road, not to mention it was tedious to even skill up your professions.
In short, hit cap is fine, as are all other caps, hard or soft. You go through tiers of clear progression, feeling your character get more powerful, meeting new people to help you out because their class needed something else. The crux of it was the few ways to obtain it. I'm even fine with it being a bit difficult or time consuming to get, as long as it's fucking fun.
In the end even the tedious aspects were manageable because the game was fun and rewarding, mainly due to the community.
Things shouldn't be streamlined so much because this is a game in the end. You are meant to play it, not just have things given to you o character objectives removed.
When people complain about stat and ability pruning they overlook how much depth is being added to classes with the artifact system.
Also, pruning of both stats and useless abilities was 100% necessary.
>>335127662
>remove questing
It's shit anyway, just like linear gear upgrades and theme park tripe.
>remove leveling up
Just leads to immediately obsolete content. Leveling is awful.
>single city as a hub
At least there would be players somewhere.
It's humorous how trying to completely reduce the game comes out with shit that obviously would benefit it.
>>335127769
>>335127878
There are like 4 or 5 raid modes, all having progressive ilvls.
They should just make ilvls affect stats less and tighten up the margins on bosses -- missing 3 DPS? Git gud.
>>335129141
it would obviously be more about using machine summons and bombs and rockets, it would be actual abilites and specs not fucking recipes to make mounts and goggles.
>>335125947
the item level taking the spotlight like that is a bit funny but other than that it just hides things your class doesn't need
I'm not planning on playing Legion for reasons but the stat screen being smaller isn't even a real issue
>>335125947
This would have been an April Fool's joke 5 years ago.
>>335125947
So they're trying to make an open world DoTA?
>>335128252
>>335128745
They've already filled every fucking aspect before they decided to bring in demon hunters and they already had all the demon hunter shit in the game for rogues and warlocks. WoW does not need any more classes.
>>335129309
Wrong. Hitcap is absolutely pointless and a shit system.
Mana management (int giving mana, having to balance spirit properly) was a good system, though. It's dumb that they just gave ALL mana users a flat cap at max level and said spirit is only for healers.
>>335129538
>Wrong. Hitcap is absolutely pointless and a shit system.
Mind giving an argument regarding your opinion?
>>335129441
It was actually a joke and they made it into reality.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Equipment_Potency_EquivalencE_Number
>>335129319
>much depth is being added to classes with the artifact system.
https://youtu.be/QLSzse_tmqg?t=2502
you're gonna need some examples and elaborate more
>>335129337
>ulduar which was better than anything in mop.
I just couldn't let it go
Ulduar was pretty mediocre raid even by wotlk standards
>only 2 bosses were even remotely good
>Raid for everyone design allowed almost everyone to clear first wing
>hardmode boss required more gear than a skill
Just like retards like you have a twisted opinion about vanilla, because all memes you heard. You don't have a good taste about raids as well
Fuck I will take lich king 25hm fight(actually god tier fight) anyday, because it was far better than anything in ulduar
And mop bosses were even better
>>335129538
their idea was that spell casters would have a secondary resource of sorts
>embers for destro locks
>the ice things for frost mage
>souls shards for demo locks
there's more but healers would be the ones that would rely on mana the most to do their job.
even manaless classes go oom in terms of their resource if they don't manage it correctly (rage, energy, runic power, focus)
>>335128810
WoW has:
Damage/Health/Crit/Haste/Mastery/Versatility affected by stats/items
Warcraft 3 has:
Damage/health/attack speed/lifesteal/armor/crit chance/orb effects/hp regen/mana regen/mana pool/base damage affected by stats/items
>>335129717
I don't understand why they are turning everything in energy though. What was wrong with enh shamans using maelstrom?
>even more ability pruning
I wouldn't mind having 4-5 abilities if they gave us a change to personalize them, kinda like how major glyphs worked before being nerfed into oblivion and now removed completely. If i have to use only shadow bolt and a curse with my warlock, give me the chance to make it a fire shadow bolt and for my curse to increase fire damage, or give me the option of having my warrior hit for less but damage armor with it's only 2 abilities etc. right now every class/spec will feel exactly the same. I understand the artifacts are supposed to work like this but how much in depth is it really?
>>335129803
did they remove maelstrom in legion?
i haven't really looked into all the classes
maelstrom stacks seemed alright as a resource
>>335127196
Whenever you trim too much of the fat, you lose some of the flavor.
>>335129813
>4-5 abilities
go play a moba you casual shit gobbler
>>335129616
It was an arbitrary stat that made melee combat a pain in the ass just because you didn't afk at a target dummy to get to hit cap for ONE weapon type. Missing melee attacks and spells just makes no sense and isn't fun at all. Why should I have to put more effort into shifting my stats into some shitty soft cap when it's more interesting to have to balance other more significant things like crit and haste? This is from and endgame standpoint.
>>335129673
Go look at the artifact trees on wowhead
>>335129717
Yeah well I mean after the mana change it feels like they just gave almost every class an infinite supply of mana, I remember being on my mage in cata and having to time significant burst phases and raidwide mana cooldowns like that one shaman totem so that you didn't look like an idiot in the raid with no mana. Now it's really just healers that have to manage mana, and even then they've got their own tools to manage it.
>mfw spirit won't help me regen health out of combat
>mfw intellect won't help me level up my weapon skills
>mfw agility won't give me more crits/armor
Being a warrior is suffering.
>>335127895
>>335128145
Stats affecting damage and health are shit. End of story..
Nothing makes stacking the only stats that end up mattering interesting.
Alternatives? Mobility and its procs and abilities (from gear), AOE size and effects (maybe making stacking necessary for CC instead of giving every class 100% roots and whatever), range, magic find, gold find..
>>335128271
>>335128351
See above.
>>335128702
It's needless complexity. Figuring out cool non-primary stats and even removing primary stats completely in favor of more interesting gear options is key.
>>335128558
Technically, the benefit is that if there are those options (stacking healing stats and debuffs and debuff resists) there is no optimal build. Some Warriors would heal well, and some would have great buff and debuff potential.
The issue with that benefit is how complex it would be to retune every piece of gear. It's a complete gameplay redesign, even if just to remove DPS and HP stats.
>>335130087
>put down cooking fire
>that +4 spirit is trying its best to heal you
F
>>335129678
kill yourself desu my man.
>>335127196
>"useless stats"
>you THINK you want that, but you dont.
>>335130075
I was talking about the stat, not weapon skill, anon.
The weapon skill stat was complete bullshit in every way.
>>335126063
To be fair, the stats window is only showing the stats relevant to the Hunter and it's spec. Other stats they do not gain benefits from are not shown.
>>335130075
>>335129538
kill yourself
>>335127707
>all this outrage for this quote
should i remind you that most of the shit we have today was asked by the community? People bitched for years for dungeon finder, raid finder, ability pruning, flying mounts, a way to make leveling faster, having the chance to catch up for raids with welfare epics etc. it was done poorly, but the "you think you do but you don't" fully applies with wow players. I wouldn't be surprised if people start bitching about legacy servers too when they come up, which is now only a matter of time since legion is set up for failure.
>>335130075
yes dps classes don't run out of mana (except arcane mages since the more mana they spend the more damage they do)
they do run out of mana if they spam heals though
>>335130128
>Stats affecting damage and health are shit. End of story..
Nigger just saying "i am right, end of story" is not an argument.
>>335130223
how much does blizzard pay you? or do you do it for free?
>>335129923
Maelstrom is now rage but with a different name.
>>335130223
The people that bitch constantly are the people who are shit at the game.
The guy who asked the question for vanilla servers wasn't bitching, he was pining for better times.
>>335130282
Nigga, just saying 'nuh uh' isn't an argument. That post has way more than that.
>>335130128
>It's needless complexity. Figuring out cool non-primary stats and even removing primary stats completely in favor of more interesting gear options is key.
i think that was the direction blizz was trying to go with the secondary and tertiary stats (although tertiary stats are just rng on gear)
gear pieces are differentiated by secondary stats (multistrike, versatility, crit, mastery)
so as a hunter for example you only choose according to those stats (which can be used by all classes) since all your gear will give you agility regardless.
Makes it a lot easier to scroll through all the casual scrubs like the baby cakes who browse /v/. Enjoy never getting into mythic raids, lol.
>>335130416
There already is an argument, that you havent addressed in any way other than "nuh uh".
Wait, what? Why are they removing all stats from the stat screen? What's the point, except making everything even more equalized for everything ever?
>>335130423
Blizzard only knows how to add 'interesting' stats through RNG.
>>335129328
I always dismiss this image but Blizzard pretty much went ahead and made exactly that. Sort of.
http://beta.wowdb.com/item-sets?filter-build=21531
>>335130176
Yeah, I was actually rambling about both hit systems. I do agree that there should be something that creates a need for you to manage your stats properly but I think having a hit stat is the wrong way to do it. For casters, missing abilities was just AIDS and isn't fun at all. They're trying to do that nowadays with having the '5% crit/mastery/multistrike' and wanting you to stack a certain stat because it benefits your specific subclass more.
>>335130221
x d
>>335130239
Yeah all of my raidtime in HFC was on an Arcane, its really fun having mana management as a part of your rotation IMO with burst and dump phases. Prophecy of Fear is busted.
>>335130087
1% wipe
>>335130451
>calling people casual scrubs
>still plays WoW
fucking hell mate
>>335130357
it works out in the end since the only reasons enh ran out of mana was due to healing
mana could be done away with since it was only used for spamming a shitty heal while making the current resource more dynamic by needing to take care of healing as well.
>>335125947
still too much stats.
it need to be simplified to just Offense and defense.
>>335130557
I know it works, but I prefered Maelstrom because it was different
>>335130569
nah, just cut the fat and just have a giant red ITEM LEVEL there, and that's it
How is ToS?
>>335130569
Increase in Damage Done - X%
Decrease in Damage Taken - Y%
>>335129616
Not that anon but there was really no point to the whole hit thing outside of maybe Vanilla. You just made sure you had enough for your cap at the beginning of an expansion and you kept it at the cap until there's a new one. It became especially retarded with Cataclysm since you could just easily reforge your shit to ensure you're always capped. And reforging was a process that didn't require any thought at all, you just used an add on which calculated the best possible reforging outcome for you.
If having a single stat is mandatory for everyone, and you aren't really allowed to move it around at all, what's the fucking point other than just being a pain in the ass? More stats don't make a better game unless the stats are somewhat meaningful.
>>335130690
or just LEVEL
and items are nothing but aesthetic
and bosses drop experience orbs like mobs in minecraft
>>335130694
So just take everything out except versatility
>>335130410
those people are the majority, and it has been like this since vanilla. The problem is the community that it's shit, either change everything to make it more easy or just make it pure vanilla or it's shit, no middle ground. If the game was still appealing to retards there wouldn't be such a huge loss of subscribers, not even them want to play wow. So in their case saying "you think you do but you don't" fully applies to the blizzard community, even if in this case they were proved wrong by Nost success, they really have no way to understand what the wow community really wants.
>>335130340
More than you get from your autism bux.
>>335128415
There's little sense of accomplishment because there's no consequence for failure. There's no reason for anticipation about winning/losing a PvP engagement or raid encounter because nothing happens.
>>335130518
>I always dismiss this image
Jokes on that, because sandbox elements are the literal other option for muh +1 item level, nice.. raid's done, better log off.
>Blizz made exactly that
Firstly, all of those set bonuses are exactly the same.. Next, that pic's whole idea is about gear losing durability permanently so as to make replacing gear possible (thus making an economy and content -- competition and consequences).
That page has absolutely nothing to do with that idea.
Does motivation not affect everything? Thus making good games is as simple as checking scientific resources.
What's better? Getting a hat that gives +1 strength, which gives you +1 damage and +1 health, or getting a hat that just gives you +1 damage and +1 health?
>>335130476
"End of story isn't an argument" says nothing about that post's ideas.
Feel free to get a glass of cold water and start the fuck over.
>>335130767
while at it, just make the default visual option to make everyone a literal walking number shooting numbers at very big numbers
>>335130569
>offense and defense
Just make it one single stat - power. It is also your health, and your mana.
So your power determines how much damage you take, and how much incoming damage is reduced. It is used to perform attacks, like mana/rage/energy was before. When it reaches zero, you die.
This would actually produce a more complex and engaging game.
>>335130901
>cold water
>not warm milk
Look at this fucking pleb and laugh
>>335130970
>laughing
What low status shithole are you from?
>>335130748
What was cool about hit (and occasionally other stats for a couple specs) is that its value changed. Sometimes a "better" piece of gear would be worse because you lost hit. Sometimes you could make that up elsewhere with a sidegrade that was actually an upgrade because it had the hit you needed, allowing you to use the better piece. It was a system that should have been expanded upon, not shit on my reforging and the eventual removal of hit.
>>335130829
Looks like "freeroam" gear with those first two set bonuses in his link.
>biggest font size by a landslide goes to gear score
>>335130995
>not laughing
People from third world countries shouldn't post here
>>335125947
Don't play wow any more but i'm loving that all those icons are reused, the first trinket slot icon was used in vanilla and the 2nd was used in toc for offhands come on blizz
>>335131049
Remember a few years ago when they made fun of introducing something like an e-peen stat as an april fools joke?
>>335128375
Class Halls looked like Garrisons 2.0, but the fact that World Quests (will touch on below) make you leave them (the main problem with garrisons), you don't negate professions with them and the fact that it's not a one person instance changed my mind on that.
Every class change looks pretty good to me, Outlaw Rogue, Demonology Warlock and Survival Hunter being the best changes. As a Warlock main, I'm glad that the specs feel different now.
Dungeons look to be pretty good but dungeons haven't sucked ever, I don't think. Dungeons stay relevant later on with the Mythic+ system. Same thing with the little bit of raid stuff we've seen.
World Quests sound great, I watched some streams and it looks like legitimately difficult world content and it's confirmed there will be world quests that both factions will try and go for, meaning a resurgence in World PvP. Though if you're on a server that is 5:1 horde or something I'd feel bad for you.
Artifacts and the new types of legendaries seem like the logical progression of Vanilla talents, same with the new PvP talent system.
>>335131034
>backpedaling
>>335131059
>responding to a neg with the exact opposite statement, as if that concludes anything
Reading comprehension and language fluidity is a tell of status as well.
>>335131029
But this only really happened in Vanilla anyway. In BC and WotLK, you'd just re-gem your stuff. In Cata and MoP, you'd just reforge. It barely had anny real effect.
>>335131159
>attempting to form a serious response to a sophisticated post when you obviously don't understand the finer things
How's that mudhut treating you?
>>335131223
>laughing isn't low status
What's not being understood here?
>>335131197
hit was the only reason we needed reforging and gems
Tencent, a multi-billion chink company who owns huge parts of Riot among other things has a big sharehold of Acti-Blizz. They are actively trying to ruin Blizzard games so that LoL has less competition.
>>335131262
>he thinks laughing is low status
>he doesn't know the higher echelons have taken to laughing like the peasants to seem 'down to earth'
You obviously don't understand your place, working class.
>>335131410
Anyway, back on topic..
>>335127196
DESU I don't see any point for AGI or STA either. Why does the gear even give stats because everyone is wearing gear that gives the preferred stats of their class?
>>335131386
LoL and WoW have little to no demographic crossover.
>>335131371
Gems and reforging were basically there to maximise your main stat. And guess what, hit was just your main stat until you hit the cap, afterwards, it was useless.
>>335131410
I'm sure that hot girl gives a shit about your echelons as she kicks your ass in a staring contest from across the field..
>>335131445
WoW has always been shit.
The gameplay (press 1, 2, 3, repeat) is utterly atrocious across all expansions. Community and exploration was the only reason to ever play, and now even that's gone.
>>335131487
>higher echelons
>straight
We're not breeders like the lower class.
>>335131534
>as if there's better contemporary PvP than denying heals by stacking shit on your opponent
PvE is probably going to be shit. PvP is pretty grand.
>>335131607
>I have ascended emotional relationships
Oh yeah, we're on 4chan. Enjoy.
>>335131607
>not straight
"Frequent orgasms are highly correlated with an increased quality of life,[19] yet this correlation is positive for sex and negative for non-sexual forms of orgasm[20][21] and anal.[22]"
Checkmate. WoW vaginal penetration where?
>>335131673
>you can't form emotional relationships with pseudo-minerals
Of course a mouthbreather like yourself could never understand me and my Obsidian's love.
>>335130829
>look at these charts and "explanation models" with no scientific studies whatsoever to support them
feels like im on /pol/
>>335128223
> If I'm a Hunter, why the fuck would shit like Parry, Dodge, ...
Are hunters immune to physical attacks? If not, why are you so dead set on having no melee avoidance? Fuck.
>...Strength...
Having melee weapons not get damage from strength is a sign of how moronic blizz is.
>...Spirit, Intellect ...
For a pet based class, there are many ways to make these relevant, from simple to interesting. Could impact focus regen, max, how strong per bonus effects are, etc
This I'd some lazy shit, and you're a moron for gobbling it.
>>335131862
>asking to be spoonfed what's scientific common knowledge
If IQ was worth anything beyond basic functionality, I would quote it here.
>>335131897
nice try pal, post sources or stand the fuck down
I want to say I don't care.
I want to say fuck WoW.
I want to say I play better games.
But man, those Gnome girls always make me commin' back.
Has anyone got that crying wojak nostalrius image? The one where he's sitting at the PC.
>>335131962
>stand down
>to some post on 4chan claiming they can't into scientific motivation without being spoonfed
>>335125947
This is just awful. It looks like those Facebook or iOS "RPGs." Between this and the focus on offline progression with the garri-I mean, class order halls, I don't how anyone can still think of WoW as an MMORPG.
My thoughts are "who the fuck are all of these morons that still pay for retail wow?"
>>335132081
I have a guild and I would feel bad leaving them
>>335125947
>The year is 2001, the distant future...
>Video games are a dystopia of neural gloves, electroshock collars and paying money for parts of the game you already paid for.
>The formula for video game stats has been rounded down to a single statistic: fitegud. All that matters is your fitegud.
>There is only one class: Fiteguder. They (for all gender, race and customization options have been rendered into a single ultimate form) fight good with their fitegud weapon: the fitegud.
>Wow still does better than any other MMO.
>>335132002
>claiming they can't into scientific motivation without being spoonfed
when are you going to admit you dont have any evidence to back up your claims?
>>335131197
Gemming wasn't too bad, because its overall effect was minimal. We would still have to weigh increasing our non-hit stats vs losing hit. I do agree and said that reforging was stupid. And it also goes beyond just hit. Haste had breakpoints, which was cool. There have been specs (and there are a couple now) where a stat was needed to keep up a certain buff or debuff, and then that stat was less valuable. It could be expanded to have more abilities do things off of different stats.
Yeah, it's all ultimately going to lead to people downloading a calculator and plugging their stats into it, but it's the best we can get. and far better than not having to care at all.
>>335131151
>outlaw rogue
it's literally the same old SS SnD Evis shit rogue has ALWAYS been with an added proc of pistol shot and slightly different spell names because you're a pirate harry
If that qualifies as one of the best I don't really know what to think about that shitshow of an expansion
>>335131969
there are no better games, sadly that it's the problem. The only decent one is FFXIV but you either hate it or love it, most people hate it. If there was a competitive good MMORPG around nobody would give a shit about a 2006 game, this is the sad truth.
>>335131969
Have you just tried grafting stilts to your legs IRL and pretending everyone is a gnome? It'd be cheaper.
>>335132246
I thought Tree of Saviour was going to save the genre
>>335132234
But it literally isn't. Find me any pertinent crossover in skills.
>>335132315
>f2p
>save the genre
Only retards cared about this garbage
>>335132280
Less painful too
>>335132357
What's wrong with ToS?
>>335132420
It's f2p
>WoW is at best a story of a grand empire in long, harrowing decay as the many lights of its users/citizens wink out one by one, let down by civilization and its government.
>People are forced to keep clinging to it because there is simply no better alternativ
>Occasional death throes from Blizzard republic to shut down any rivals with its still considerable might.
>When WoW falls it'll be a MMORPG dark age
>tfw you're witnessing the mmorpg equivalent of the fall of the Roman empire.>tfw you were always a vandal waiting for decades for it to finally happen
>>335132525
I am actually worried at the MMO genre when WoW will die, I fear that they will decide the genre is not profitable anymore and stop making mmo games.
Im glad Blizz got rid of these pesky stats. Looking at the old stat page just made my head hurt.
>>335132191
How about logic?
Why learn and play guitar? It's not going to get them laid or paid. It's fun to master something and be competent. WoW doesn't have a lot of mastery. Most everything is given without consequence. The combat is becoming archaic, albeit still decent. But there's no control for most outcomes because there aren't that many outcomes to be had. Overcome an opponent in WPvP? He just respawns.
Relatedness? The social aspect has almost been mitigated completely by dungeon finder and professions being relegated to garrisons.
Autonomy? The freedom of choice for the direction of the game realm and what options are taken for the player in its professions and gear upgrades..
Oh, wow. Logic is nice.
>>335125947
>Item level is the biggest and most "important" value in the window
I think I'm gonna be sick
>>335127313
Have you ever actually played D&D? What about Charisma rolls when trying to roleplay or some shit like that? Jesus.
>>335129286
>Have fun playing the same raid 5 times
This is the shit that keeps me from enjoying PvE. I always, ALWAYS get burnt out by the time I make it to Heroic.
>>335132525
WoW's slow decline into marxism/communism and cheap, profit first ideology that celebrates and encourages mediocrity is pretty analogous to the current fall of western civilization.
>>335132605
I certainly agree that it looks like WoW was a one-time thing. I don't think mmorpgs will die out, I just think it had its peak about eight years ago.
There will be other big things, maybe one day mmorpgs will come back in some kind of revival. For now, the concept has had its time and its magnum opus (such as it was) and the creativity, drive, interest or originality, factor x or whatever the fuck has since died or moved on.
>>335127313
That was a nice use of (you) anon.
Respect.
>>335132345
Rotation:
>Spam Saber Slash (Sinister Strike)
>use SnD
>use Run Through (Eviscerate)
>use pistol shot when it procs
Adrenalin rush and BF are the same
this has literally been the fucking rotation of rogues since vanilla WoW, for 10 years now, save for that one proc and the fact that you don't use BF for single target anymore but rather toggle it for AoE eversince it was changed in cata or MoP. Fuck off
>>335132665
>trying to do charisma roll on the class that doesn't need it
No one can be THAT retarded
>>335132725
>a genre that hasn't innovated gameplay beyond hotbar cooldowns and, for 99% of the games, +1 stat increases until there's nothing to do and/or more content is developed
>at its peak
First patch and you will have only item level.
>>335132801
That's not the full rotation though you monkey. You've also left out everything from the artifacts.
>>335132605
The genre as we know it is already dead, even MMO sites talk more about the division or LoL than anything else. The death of WoW in best case scenario would mean that someone will try to get it's place by giving us a good game that can monopolize the genre again (until it turns to shit).
>>335132696
>WoW's decline into marxism/communism
>when they've only recently introduced money for comfort/benefit systems
Seriously, do you retards even think about these shit analogies before you make them?
>>335132813
Have you never done a run where your group got separated or maybe it's all up to you because of some weird unexpected reason? I'm not saying "Wow, every Wizards should max Charisma", but what I am saying is that they still NEED it to function properly in the game world.
>>335132665
Or how about playing a unique character you actually want to role play as. Autist.
>>335132605
>I fear that they will decide the genre is not profitable anymore and stop making mmo games.
this isn't a bad thing
Awful, Fuck wow
>Why do I need to look at this stat that isnt necessary for my class?
>Why do I need to walk all the way to a dungeon, its not necessary or relevant!
>Why do I have to talk with this other people, ask who is going to tank etc, why cant they just have a mark on their heads?
>Why do I need to talk to this guy thats doing the same quest as me to group with him, why cant mobs just count for me too if I hit them?
>Why do I need to use a bow as a warrior, if I'm just going to use it 1% of the time?
>Why do I need to do all this suboptimal shit? it doesnt give me gear or rating or Good Blizzboy points!
>Why do I have to play this dumb game, I dont wanna waste my time, I just want constant rewards!
Big news drones, WoW used to be a game, not a job, you sometimes did things for the sake of it, for the flavor, not for epics, knowing that a pries has a lot of strength less than a warrior adds flavor to the game, no, it doesnt grant you garrison points but some people like it.
>>335132931
Do tell me the 'full rotation' then you massive humongous faggot, are you going to add killing spree which has been there since wotlk? Will you add all the usable spells from talents just for the sake of it even if they weren't optimal, which wouldn't even add more than one or two abilities since most of that crap is passives?
i honestly think all they have to do is remove raid finder, dungeon finder and cross-realm stuff (except for battlegrounds maybe)
the social aspect is what made wow fun in the first place, as evidenced by the popularity of nostalrius and other vanilla servers
because lets be honest, the vanilla lore and community was a lot better, but the game was even simpler and unpolished back then compared to now
>>335132994
>one small component isnt 100% applicable
>the analogy doesnt apply
whats it like being stupid as well as autistic? the homogenization of classes, the elimination of any semblance of meaningful/noticeable gear hierarchy, deliberate erosion of community and in-server stratification are all in line with marxist theory.
>but micro transactions are capitalist!
dont post again, you simpleton.
>>335133183
This is why "you think you want it but you don't" or whatever it was is actually real and true, MMO fans should never be listened to because they zerg through everything as fast as they can without putting effort but then complain they have nothing to do.
>Nobody wants talent trees bloated with boring 1/2/3% damage ups with cookie-cutter specs, let's remove them
>let's make artifact talent trees bloated with boring 1/2/3% damage ups where you pick literally everything eventually so you don't have even that slight variety :^)
what a fucking joke of an expansion, and people WILL gobble this shit up once again, even after the consumer rapefest that was WoD
>>335133302
the post you responded to was extolling the superiority of vanilla wow, people want vanilla wow because it was an objectively better game.
blizzard will cave after legion's inevitable decline, expect legacy servers in last quarter of 2016.
remember when all stat types mattered? or when we had resistances?
wow is casual as fuck these days
>>335133293
>homogenization of classes
[citation needed]
>the elimination of any semblance of meaningful/noticeable gear hierarchy
What the fuck are you even talking about?
>deliberate erosion of community
People spamming "need 1 prot 4 BWL" in 1 isn't community you stupid nigger.
>in-server stratification
That'd imply an inherent level of community you stupid cunt. Why do you use words you don't actually know?
None of these are inherent tenants of Marxist theory. Shouldn't you be writing your first year Sociology paper instead of trying to equate capitalism manifest: the video game to its polar opposite?
>>335133401
>where you pick literally everything eventually
is this true? do we really get fully maxed artifacts will all the abilities? just when i tought wow couldn't get more shit.
>>335125947
>gnome hunters
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
HA HA HA
HA
>>335133183
>Why do I need to walk all the way to a dungeon, its not necessary or relevant!
Spending 20 minutes getting to a dungeon (or force 2 + Lock to go) was boring as fuck when done several times.
Finding out dungeon resulting in teleport being available is the best.
>Why do I have to talk with this other people, ask who is going to tank etc, why cant they just have a mark on their heads?
You spent hours on LFGs to make groups to places unless you played on big servers (which were also often laggier)
>Why do I need to use a bow as a warrior, if I'm just going to use it 1% of the time?
Pointless shit desu.
>Why do I need to do all this suboptimal shit? it doesnt give me gear or rating or Good Blizzboy points!
What?
>>335133509
>vanilla had no community
not that guy you're replying to but you are the nigger senpai.
>>335125947
>gnome hunter
also
>retarded stat window for mentally challenged people
>>335128178
What a retarded statement
>>335133693
>>335133585
Gnome hunters make sense
>>335133509
>homogenization of people
>elimination of natural hierarchies, particularly patriarchal and thus community
>dissolution of social and economic(gear) hierarchies
>not all inherent to the application of marxist theory
like i said, you're stupid AND autistic, dont post again.
I didn't want to believe it, but WoW truly has devolved into a Facebook-tier flash game. Literally all it is is login, collect your mats, go to your mission table, send your champions/followers/drones or whatever they're calling them in this expansion out to their mission, queue up for your dungeons and/or raids, sit idly in your garrison in the meantime taking selfies, and logout when done. There's no soul to the game anymore.
>>335133731
No they don't.
>>335133293
> the elimination of any semblance of meaningful/noticeable gear hierarchy
>You must grind this shit. After which you must grind this shit. Then to complete the next shit you must do these several side grinds to progress in this shit and while your grinding this shit you need to grind even more shit
P A S S
>the homogenization of classes
Ultimately for the better. Stacking up specific classes and constantly having to have that class with you (even if the player was complete crap) was stupid.
>>335133803
Every race should have access to hunter and warriors.
>RESILIENCE GONE
FINALLY
>>335133662
Once again, spamming shit in 1 isn't community. Being forced to tag along with people on a 20 minute walk somewhere where you'd just slap on autorun isn't community, it's an elementary school excursion where your teacher tells you to hold hands and be nice to each other.
>>335133736
Except you gave no examples of any of these things you stupid cunt. There is no homogenization, hierarchies in terms of guilds and raid/PvP tiers exist, etc. You're literally just reaching so hard for this comparison that your mush brain is drawing conclusions to shit that have nothing to do with one another. You might as well be making a food analogy at this point.
>>335133731
Bear is Big
Gnome is gnome
Big Bear eat Gnome Gnome
NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM
>>335133821
>Stacking up specific classes and constantly having to have that class with you (even if the player was complete crap) was stupid.
people like you ruined genre
>>335133821
>he actually wrote another response
>he did it for free
lmaoing at your life rn
>>335125947
if they add movementspeed for all, block, parry dodge and attackspeed for meeles i am fine with the change.
>>335133821
>Stacking up specific classes and constantly having to have that class with you (even if the player was complete crap) was stupid.
Yeah but you don't have to homogenize the game to make that happen.
>>335133561
yes, they're literally going against their own design philosophy and even going further by implementing a shittier version
that's modern day blizzard for you. And there are tons of people posting here right now that will buy this shit
>>335127467
Aw is it too complicated for you?
Go back to mobas faggot
So what the fuck happened to tanking stats like dodge/block/parry?
CAN ANYONE TANK NOW IF THEY HAVE ENOUGH FUCKING HP AND ARMOR?
I think WoW is just not the type of game that benefits from having a lot of stats.
I mean, their direction seems to be that you beat the encounters with skill (fuck up, I know) and that the stats on the gear are little more than a benchmark needed to do encounters.
With this in mind, people started using the gear with the best stats regardless, and to reach these benchmarks (bosses) people used cookie cutter builds.
Now WoW was never drowning in unique things to put your stats in, but you could do some unique shit, but that always got nerfed in some way (healing prot pala, restokin etc, loved both) because I guess Blizz seen them as problematic or something I guess? Probably for some PvP reason.
Anyway, I am someone who has not raided since Wotlk and not done Arena since they took out being able to AFK in them and get points. WoW for me is a game to go on with my SO maybe 1-2 months a year and fuck around on our joint account (achievs count for us both, and mounts etc since we are on same battlenet but can still play together) and do shit like battlegrounds, riding around the world ganking or whatever new daily hub they announced since we were on. Stopping now as this kinda became a blog post.
>>335133902
Why? Stacking was stupid as fuck. Requiring certain classes just because they have that one thing (regardless of player quality) was stupid.
I don't even see how this contributes to "ruining the whole genre"
>>335134005
The DPS do different DPS with different skills. Healers do different heals with different skills. Tanks do tanking with different skills.
I don't see the problem.
>>335133860
>Every race should have access to hunter and warriors.
And here we have the example why WoW is a disgrace.
>>335134085
tanks have been removed, every class can now facetank and healing is more dynamic since you have 4 'tanks' in a group to heal
>>335125947
I'm so fucking glad I don't play that game anymore.
>>335134191
its blizzard's fault for encouraging and fostering these people, most human being are stupid, its up to the devs to ignore the whims of mongoloids.
I miss hit/expertise and armor pen.
They were non-issue in higher gear levels but they were a small goal while progressing through gear tier.
>>335125947
>Blizzard makes it so you only see stats useful to your class
>Dumbfucks on /v/ acting like they just removed the stats
I hate and love this place so much.
>>335134345
nice one reddit
>>335125947
>>335134392
>Get proven wrong
>AD HOMINEM UR GAY REDDIT SHILL GO
>>335133860
No
Races should only have access to like 4 classes. Makes the game more divers and doesn't break the lore
>>335134294
Agree.
But it seens Blizzard itself is made of mongoloids, so they listen only their people.
>>335134085
They changed to "active tanking". Each tank class have short CD/resource-based skills that reduces their damage intake for a short time or gives them a massive heal. Tanks are supposed to anticipate or react to large damage spikes by using these skills.
