Why was Wind Waker the best Zelda?
>inb4 majorafags come in here with their schedule manager bullshit and 2deep4u pretentious crap
>>334941656
Only people that played WW as a kid think WW was even in the top 3 list.
it wasnt
>>334941656
it was super comfy and it acted as a filter by triggering all the autistic zelda fans with its cel-shaded graphics
>>334941656
At least schedule managing is actually doing something unlike Wind Waker's screensaver ocean.
It stands out for it's great atmosphere and art style however. Even TP is a much more well made game, but WW beats it out in charm alone despite being worse in almost every regard.
>>334941656
Legend of Zelda was the best.
It isn't. WW is the peak of "style over substance" when it comes to Zelda games. Virtually all of its strengths lie in aesthetics and illusions of adventure.
>>334941804
I was 12 when WW was released and that's when I played it. It's not even in the top half of the series, let alone the top 3.
>>334943584
>Even TP is a much more well made game
Agreed.
>but WW beats it out in charm alone despite being worse in almost every regard.
u wot m8
>>334941656
Because it has best overworld, best overworld content (biggest variety of collectibles and best grottos), and second best sidequests next to MM.
The only things WW really failed at was not having enough dungeons and mediocre pacing, and the latter was largely fixed by the HD version.
>inb4 anti-WWfags get triggered by this post
>>334943778
Let me phrase it like this. TP is much more well made, has better dungeons, and bosses, even the empty world is more enjoyable to explore, BUT WW is a game I had a better time with.
>>334944180
>even the empty world is more enjoyable to explore
Why? TP's map had less things to find in it AND less sidequests than WW.
>>334941656
in every way except the lazy dungeon designs and primarily shit-tier enemies, it was the best one
>>334944460
Probably because not everyone enjoys sailing compared to typical Zelda world traversal. Coincidentally I think WW is the worst 3D Zelda but also find sailing to be one of its best points. It's the flimsy main quest compared to the others that turns me off.
>>334941656
It wasn't. It was super easy even for Zelda and tedious as fuck with the sailing and hunting for Triforce pieces. also some lame gadgets
Best story and music in the series though
>>334941656
Because it was the only Zelda to at least make an effort at emphasizing exploration, although it still didn't quite succeed. Even 2D titles largely failed at this because a lot of them gated you at every turn unless you had some specific arbitrary item from a specific dungeon.
Zelda U will probably be my favorite game in the series for this reason alone judging from what Aonuma's said about it so far.
>>334945235
Zelda 1 also emphasized exploration and WW still gates - when KoRL isn't keeping you on a path, there's a chance of being able to do fucking nothing once you get on an island because you don't have the item to progress on it. WW really isn't that different from the other post-ALttP Zeldas in that respect, it just seems like it is on a surface level.
>>334941656
Ignoring the things you listed about MM, the reason why a lot of people enjoy it is because it
>The new transformation abilities,
> the masks that offered cool gimmicks so you wanted to find more,
>the schedule providing detailed NPC quests and deeper characterization,
>new areas that don't have to rely on Zelda lore tropes such as the Master Sword, Triforce,etc.
The game felt fresh as fuck even if it was just full of rehashed OOT assets.
>>334944957
Personally I don't think its main quest was necessarily flimsy, just... lacking compared to some of the others.
For example I feel that someone new to the series would probably really enjoy the main quest aside from maybe the Triforce part.
>>334941804
I didn't play WW until WWHD and I think it's the best 3D Zelda.
>>334945478
This. Plenty of islands require a specific item to head to a fairy cave or something or Red Lion is like fuck you or there's some giant wind tunnel,blah blah.
Most of the islands are just small rocks with some rupees anyway
It's the most fun
>>334945478
>and WW still gates
That's why I said it didn't quite succeed.
The reason it emphasizes it more than other Zeldas (aside from the first Zelda which I personally don't even count because it was so barebones) is because the map structure was open-ended and dotted with quite a bit of things to collect. Of course you could argue that MM was just as good in this regard.
>>334941656
The dungeons and main quest content were mediocre, so it has to fall back on the exploration. Except the world is mostly copypaste filler, and there's really no good incentive to explore any of it because of the lack of interesting locales and the boring rewards. Plus the sailing is too slow (at least in the original) and the combat is tarnished by the reliance on QTEs. So ultimately all the game has going for it is its charm and artstyle. It's fine to like the game, but calling it the best Zelda is a huge stretch.
>>334945563
>>The new transformation abilities,
All of which were gimmicky as shit and the transformation sequences, even skippable, were annoying.
>> the masks that offered cool gimmicks so you wanted to find more,
A large amount of them were basically useless and only good for a specific sidequest.
>>new areas that don't have to rely on Zelda lore tropes such as the Master Sword, Triforce,etc.
Not the first one to do this.
>>334945478
>there's a chance of being able to do fucking nothing once you get on an island because you don't have the item to progress on it
True.
It's pretty nice actually being able to hit an island and wonder what can be found on it though. Better than most where you can't even enter a general area with the hookshot, bow, bombs, horse, gauntlets, whatever.
You might need those to get into the real meat, but you can at least get into the surrounding area.
>>334946243
No other console Zelda had you exploring a place other than Hyrule before MM
>Zelda 1
>Zelda 2
>LTTP
>OOT
LA was the first and it's another Zelda that gets praised a lot for its flipping of the script.
>transformations are gimmicky
They are essential to beating the game. They're not gimmicky. KH2 Drive forms are gimmicky since they're not required to beat the game.
>Large amount are specific to X quest
You're probably right, I don't remember but they were still interesting to gather vs. another heart piece or rupee. Zelda does have a problem with not having gadgets being viable throughout the game though.
always with the 3d zelda shite
did everyone forget 2D zelda was a thing after those shitty DS games or what
where's the love, man
>>334945789
Aside from free sea traversal (which isn't even available until a ways into the game) it's no more or less successful than most other Zeldas. You can GO anywhere, but you can't just DO anything, and is that really any different from what ALttP did? What's the point in championing its freedom on any level when at the end of the day your actions are no less restricted? If anything, OoT had more freedom because you can at least tackle the adult dungeons in some degree of non-linear fashion.
>aside from the first Zelda which I personally don't even count because it was so barebones
For a game from 1986 it did a fantastic job. Game basically says "here's a sword and a landmass to wander in, have fun". Yeah, the technical limitations sometimes made progression rather obtuse but for what they had to work with the game does a fine job of suggesting exploration on the player's part.
>>334941656
>boring empty open world with nothing to do
>cut content out the ass
>terrible pacing
>can't even fucking fish in a game about the ocean
sorry but majora shits all over this and you were probably too young to have played it when it came out
>>334946610
>No other console Zelda had you exploring a place other than Hyrule before MM
No, but Zelda 2 was the first where the master sword and triforce wasn't around.There's also the CD-I zeldas, but no one likes remembering those.
>They are essential to beating the game.
That doesn't stop them from being gimmicky. They felt awkward to use at times, especially Goron Link.
>>334947287
I'm not a Goron Link fan myself but Goht's easily one of the best bosses in the series dude. That alone justifies his inclusion.
I picked up Twilight Princess HD. I haven't gotten around to it, but from what I hear about the dungeons, it should probably be better than WW.
I'm all about them dungeons m8, and dat midna.
>>334947589
>all about them dungeons m8
Twilight Princess is one of the best games in the series on average when it comes to dungeons. The stuff inbetween is more subject to criticism but few people shit on the dungeons and rightfully so. Just know that people aren't kidding when they say it takes about 3 hours to get to the first one, and that the first third of the game is slower paced than the rest. Once you get the ability to turn into a wolf on command, the pacing gets considerably better.
TP is the best 3D Zelda, OOT is a bit worse, then there's a drastic powergap, then it goes MM > WW > SS.
2d Zeldas are in general much better than 3d Zeldas.
>>334946904
>You can GO anywhere, but you can't just DO anything
That's not entirely true. You can do more in the overworld than other 3D Zeldas because a lot of the non-island locales (like platforms, submarines, treasure spots, and squid spots) aren't typically reliant on needing items to progress. That's what I mean by open-ended map structure.
I'm not denying that WW's main quest provided more freedom than the others because it really didn't except for the Triforce quest which allowed you to tackle the shards in any order you wanted.
Every Zelda is someone's Best Zelda.
Move on.
>>334941804
I never even bothered to play the original because I thought it was probably going to be bad game judging from people's reactions.
Then I played the HD version and was blown away. Easily in my top 3 and I've been playing Zelda games since LttP.
>>334941656
It's not a bad game I'd say it's probably the worst of the 3D Zeldas.Yes, even SS.
>Mindless QTE combat
>Easiest game in the series, partially thanks to the aforementioned combat
>Started a trend of weird and unnecessary linearity and railroading (Having to take a very specific path back to Windfall from the Forest Haven before you beat the Forbidden Woods, not letting you start the Wind Temple before the Earth Temple despite it really not mattering at all)
>Pacing is utterly fucked by the Triforce Quest even after it got streamlined in HD
>>334941656
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-z9Cvk0hvg
the game stops being interesting to me after getting the pearl from jabun
the bird fight at the top of the forsaken fortress is climatic though
>>334949884
>Mindless QTE combat
I can't help but instantly ignore everyone who brings this shit up. The combat has ONE move that could even be considered a "QTE" and that move is primarily used on one enemy type.
Fuck off.
>>334941804
I want to say you are wrong, but WW is one of the first games I ever played so I can't refute your point.
>>334950089
Agreed.
The battle with the Helmaroc King is one of the most thrilling and memorable moments in the entire series.
>>334950552
That's its only real distinguishing feature, as the combat is basically OoT otherwise. There's also the ability to pick up enemy weapons but with a boring moveset, superior reach, and absurd strength that just trivializes most combat further.
Look, I can understand why someone would like Wind Waker. Shitty dungeons aside, it had a pretty large overworld with a bunch of different trinkets to find that were vital to sidequests.
But I will never, EVER understand why anyone could possibly love this abomination of a game. All Skyward fags should probably just do themselves and the world a favor by jumping off a cliff for their garbage taste. There's simply no redeeming them, and I'd honestly put them out of their misery myself if killing was legal.
>>334950819
>That's its only real distinguishing feature
Utterly irrelevant as Zelda combat doesn't NEED a distinguishing feature in every game. Also you're just being disingenuous if you believe WW's combat wasn't infinitely smoother than OoT's.
>>334951024
I don't "love" it but I think it's better than WW. It has lower lows and shit ideas but it also has higher highs and some great ideas. WW is kinda consistently middle of the road once you factor out the atmosphere.
>>334951024
Oh, don't be such a drama queen anon.
SS is fine I have no idea why people hate it so much though I thought it was fine.
>>334941804
I was fucking 22 when I played the HD version
Still #1 in my book
>>334949884
The Triforce Quest (especially the HD one) wasn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be, nor was it linear. WW didn't "start" any trend of linearity either, you're just blatantly grasping on that front.
>>334951024
That's some classic anger there, Anon. I think I'll screen cap it. :)
>>334941656
I wish they had just spent more time on it, WW was seriously lacking content.
>>334941656
Because you can tell it's the Zelda that the creators really wanted to make, as opposed to what the fantards wanted them to make instead (*cough*TwilightPrincess*cough*LinkBetweenWorlds*cough*).
>>334941656
If it had a more robust main quest, it would have easily been at least the 2nd best Zelda.
>>334941656
dragonroostisland.mp3
>>334941804
I was a kid when I played every zelda I've ever played so how does that make a difference?
>>334951763
the game felt huge as a kid when it came out.
>>334941656
Because it had more non-dungeon content than most 3D Zeldas except for Majora's Mask, and people love their open world exploration games.
Of course TP/SS buttbabbies will always be triggered by this game and the enormity of its fanbase.
>>334952131
Did you bother to finish the entire map? Look at this shit. Even as a kid it was obvious the game wasn't finished.
>>334952358
But that's because it's just the tip of mountains that come out.
a link to the past will always be the best zelda. wind waker is boring drivel and it takes hours, and hours and hours to start getting good.
I hate how they stop doing Grim and sadening shit like the flute player's fate In aLttp,OoT link's ruined childhood and the huge mind fucking MM gives you In WW and further entries.
New zelda lacks the gothic aspect of older ones,I just can't attach to a jolly world's story as much as one with darker ends.
>>334952131
remember thinking early 3d games were huge then revisiting them years later and seeing just how small and contained everything is
>>334952358
Yeah, just look at all this shit.
>>334952421
you'll get just the tip
and then more
>>334951024
Oh fuck off.
Not the best Zelda, sure. Motion controls suck, sure.
But these isn't a software publisher on this planet who wouldn't sell their fucking souls to develop a game of that quality.
>>334952578
why would publishers want to publish shit video games that no one, even contrarians, likes.
Lot of people were kids when it came out + bright and happy aesthetic which appeals to people who go against the 'standard' graphics. It also follows MM by emphasizing sidequests over the main quest/dungeons, which many think was always what Zelda was about when it wasn't.
>>334952487
Sounds like pic related is right up your alley, then.
>>334952358
I finished the game, and loved it. Searchng for things to be mad about just shortens your lifespan.
>>334951409
>>334951452
>>334951640
>>334952578
Why is it not even surprising that people who shit on WW also happen to like SS?
>>334952681
I dunno man you tell me.
>>334952514
Thats just growing up though. They really are meant to give kids a sense of wonder.
>>334952965
But I was defending WW, see >>334950045
and >>334951849
>>334941656
Since there's a Zelda thread here...
I seriously hope none of you faggots bought this lazily ported cash-in
>hurr durr lets throw Higher res textures that shouldn't even be called HD on bad models and shove it out the door
>>334952816
It lacked he spirit of Zelda though more like a forced attempt to please overreacting fans. If I want that style I wuld go with Castlevania instead.
>>334952526
>fire mountain
>mother & child isle
>ice ring isle
>greatfish isle
cut dungeons. many of those are copy pasted with minor differences like the reefs which are literally nothing but scenery & one treasure chest
49 islands but there's about 4 that are robust or ever visited more than once
>>334952738
>which many think was always what Zelda was about when it wasn't
I don't think that's what Zelda was always about, but it doesn't mean I don't still prefer it over dungeon crawling 24/7.
>>334953146
It felt like a dark fairy tale. Very unique and moody. :)
>>334953140
I bought it because I missed the GC / Wii version, so this is the first time I actually played the game.
Get fucked.
>>334953193
>moving the goalposts by arguing about reefs
The point was that there was plenty of shit to find and do in the overworld and that your example was garbage because the in-game map isn't even close to being representative to the amount of content in the game.
>>334953140
The models weren't even bad. That character animation though...
>>334953245
I give it that mood certainly but I feel like they could've done so much more with it in a lot of areas. The intro theme is the perfect example of getting it right.
>>334952526
The overwhelming majority of those were either obvious filler or cut content.
>>334953424
anyone can join the conversation why assume i am the same person
>>334953484
>TP's models
>not bad
What the fuck are you smokin? because I want some, that's some tumblr tier of reality ignoring.
/v/ used to love Wind Waker.
I wish all the underage e-celeb worshippers and Neogaf shills would leave this place.
>>334953495
Your missing the isle that got wrecked by Ganondorf emphasizing his power and the triangle isles the purpose for getting what you needed in each dungeon.
>>334945662
underage spotted
>>334953495
The overwhelming majority of those still HAD content, which was the point.
>>334943663
>illusions of adventure.
>All that fun you had is pretend.
>>334941656
Would have been a top tier zelda if not for the incomplete dungeons. It's literally an unfinished game.
>>334953637
Wind waker is still good, it's just most of the younger generations that grew up with Wii and gamecube as their first console are getting old enough to post here. How do you think I feel with Zelda 2 being my favorite and it getting hated on simply because people are bad at videogames?
It's not even cryptic either unless you lack reading comprehension. The npcs even tell you the location of secret items.
>>334953495
>hurrrr i'm gonna mark these islands with an x because i didn't personally like them
Cherrypicking at its finest.
>>334953495
Matthewmatosis is so full of shit.
>>334951849
ALBW is fantastic you shitlord.
>>334953654
supposedly there was a dungeon planned but it was scrapped and the "it was destroyed by ganondorf" sequence replaced it
it's a cool scene though, sleuthing around windfall and sailing the stormy sea, makes ganondorf seem very ominous and intimidating
>>334952965
I like all mainline Zeldas. I just like SS more than WW.
>>334953495
Is that from MatthewMatosis's video?
You are aware that he DEFENDED the amount of content in Wind Waker's overworld by pointing out all the different things you could do/find in it, right? His only real gripe was that most of the islands were one-time visits.
Wind Waker was the most expansive Zelda making the illusion that you were travelling the size of an actual world. People always complain about nothing barely happens in the ocean but I think it is a good time to look at what is around you giving a real sense of adventure and wonder not everything is about intense action or constantly doing something there needs to be time for building curiosity. The oceanic theme was very appealing everything always felt so alive with personality. The connection between Ocarina of Time to this game was well implemented making it I find the best story in Zelda.
i dont know why but i prefer gbc and gba zeldas
>>334954148
Because the Oracles are the best 2D Zeldas.
>>334952487
Ehh. TP was pretty dark overall, but I agree it didn't really have any finality to the drama to really make it grim.
>>334954196
minish cap my fav
>>334953671
>get one item/do quest thing
>never visit the island ever again
>>334954052
I'm not saying windwaker is a bad game, it's still one of my favorite zeldas but it's obvious it wasn't finished.
Especially considering I played morrowind shortly after. Nintendo doesn't have any excuse.
>>334953972
Yeah I knew about that I was just pointing out that what you explained wouldn't be considered filler by any means still having importance.
>>334953490
Thats where your producers and designers come into play. Its important to do everything you can to make the game the best it can be, and anticipate the scope you can fit into a budget of time and salaries, but sometimes even the smallest change or addition can set you back, or wreck the plan. You have to cut stuff sometimes because it can sabotage any chance of profitability.
>>334941656
It's a pretty fun game, but it has way too much filler to be one of the best Zelda games. Every 2D entry trumps it, even Minish Cap.
>>334941804
I was also a kid when I played OoT and MM, so your reasoning is shit.
>>334954196
Awakening, Ages, Seasons, and Minish Cap were all the shit. Loved them. Perfect balance of adventure and fun.
>>334953816
Hey I grew up with the Gamecube and had the collectors edition and I found Zelda 2 very good. Never got farther than the first dungeon back then but I still liked it. I started playing it again and went on a hiatus when reaching the Great Palace and I still have the same feelings now as I did back then. Being born when it came out has nothing to do with anything. Growing up sure helps but it is a matter of how interested you may be. It's worse for me being surrounded by CoD fags
>>334941656
WW is super overrated.
OoT = MM > TP >> WW >> SS
>>334954252
>windwaker
SDLKGHJFlkjhbdgfslkjhDSGksljdHF<>GsdfgklJHB
>>334954283
I'm not saying that it isn't good I just feel the image that they were trying to go for could've been implemented better. The producers did a fine job no matter what they did. My opinion is only an opinion.
>>334954748
I can agree with this list.
>>334953898
Not saying it was a bad game but you do have to admit it was basically fanservice.
>>334955534
No I don't because it wasn't. WW was more pandering than anything else.
>>334941804
Nah, came out when I was 15 and at the time everthing I'd read led me to believe it was going to look more like a graphically updated ocarina of time. It looked stupid to me so I skipped it until years later and felt dumb for being so closed minded. The game's legit.
>>334955534
As a fanservice game you have to admit it was pretty good though.
OoT's fanservice game had massive pacing issues and WW's fanservice game was the worst handheld Zelda and the worst game period.
>>334956518
PH is probably the worst official Zelda game. I'd honestly rather play skyward sword than this.
Wind Waker is pretty much exactly like Okami in terms of why people love it.
The overall style of the games is what pulled people in. I don't want to say that they're completely style over substance, but the style is given such a heavy emphasis on that it's usually what attracts people to these games, even if the gameplay isn't the best.
>>334956518
>OoT's fanservice game
You mean every 3D Zelda?
I have never played a Zelda game. Where should I start? I have a Wii U and 3DS XL
WW has horrible pacing and was easy af.
just turn those letters upside down and you got the best Zelda
>>334957081
OoT3D if you can get it. It's the most vanilla out of the Zelda's and a great game. MM3D after that, then download Link's Awakening and the Oracle games for the 3DS.
Those are my recommendations.
>>334957225
>af
Back to Facebook you fucking faggot.
>>334947840
>The stuff inbetween
you mean riding from the dungeon you just cleared to the next one?
>>334943974
that was a really clever inb4!
If now someone disagrees with you, he's a triggered ww hater.
how smart!
>>334956903
I mean TP if you're not just being disingenious.
>>334957548
He means the tear collecting bullshit and the awful Dominion Rod crap.
>>334957225
If you're gonna go down that route, every 3D Zelda has shit pacing and shit difficulty.
>>334943663
>illusions of adventure is a bad thing in a video game
Anon please.
>>334954252
>never visit the island ever again
Again, my point was just that the islands had content at least. Yes, a lot of them never give you a reason to revisit them but why is this a bad thing? Some games (like Skyward Sword) make revisiting areas feel like a massive fucking chore.
I don't see how that feels "unfinished". WW felt that way more because of its low dungeon count than anything.
>>334957775
You're finished with Tear Collecting before even reaching the half-way point. Dominion Rod stuff is ezpz.
>>334957804
OoT, MM, and the 2D games all have great pacing.
>>334941656
Listen, I know it's not what you want to hear, but have you ever actually considered that maybe Majora's Mask is actually 2deep4u?
>>334952487
I dont disagree with you, but Girahim said some pretty fucked up shit.
>>334941656
Minus tingle's translation terror
>>334958347
MM is one of my favorite Zeldas but you're delusional if you think its pacing is remotely good.
>>334953816
"Spell" is a dick though, dont remember if any NPCs ever said what that was for.
>>334941656
Zelda 2 is best zelda.
>>334958248
Dominion Rod is bad because it's boring and so situational it might as well be a Big Key, not because it's hard. Hell, if it was hard it'd be better because then there's an interesting challenge associated with them.
>>334959019
RARE OPINION
>>334958546
how is the pacing bad?
>>334954252
But how does the fact that most islands are only good for one visit mean that the game is unfinished? A lot of games, even Zelda ones, have a ton of areas like this.
>>334959419
Every segment in between dungeons feels like blatant filler with the exception of Ikana. Don't even try to deny it.
>>334957081
The series is split into 2D and 3D games although the core gameplay mechanics are the same.
A Link To The Past and Ocarina of Time are generally considered to be among the best in the series.
>>334959175
Dominion rod at least leads to better puzzling than the gear. The gear might have been fun for the 10 minutes it takes to finish Arbiter's grounds after getting it, but the Dominion rod at least has some puzzle capacity.
>>334959928
But nobody plays Zelda for the awful puzzles anyway.
>>334959419
Every dungeon requires you to do some stupid minigame shit to get in. The closest thing I can think of from OoT is getting the hookshot and saving the carpenters. But OoT also had a lot more dungeons. The mask sidequests are also shit, especially the one for the Couple's Mask (3DS babbies with timeskip wouldn't know this). Then there's the final "dungeons". At least in OoT they felt like dungeons, not obstacle courses.
>>334959768
>Every segment in between dungeons feels like blatant filler with the exception of Ikana.
Gameplay is filler now? You surely don't expect me to believe that getting the Goron and Zora mask is equivalent to the Triforce quest, do you?
>>334953637
/v/ also used to love Skyrim and Witcher 3 and we all know how that turned out.
This board is as bad as /tv/ when it comes to the sheer amount of contrarian shitposting.
>>334960175
>OOT castle
>2 room segments
>dungeons
>>334957552
fucking triggered
>>334960271
It's actually worse. At least the Triforce quest had you explore the overworld. Gerudo Fortress was just a chore.
>>334953140
stay mad shitposter-kun
>>334960175
>Every dungeon requires you to do some stupid minigame shit to get in.
Welcome to 3D Zelda. Just to prove myself, here's what you have to do to get in each temple in OoT.
>Great Deku Tree
Have to get a sword and shield before you go in.
>Dodongo's Cavern
Have to backtrack to fucking the Lost Woods and then go BACK to the Gorons to get into the cavern.
>Jabu Jabu
MWEEP
MWEEP
MWEEP
MWEEP
MWEEP
>Forest Temple
Hookshot sidequest
>Fire Temple
Have to hurt the sole goron to get the fire tunic
>Water Temple
Have to go through the frozen cavern to get ice boots.
>Shadow Temple
Have to go through the well and defeat the boss there.
>Spirit Temple
Have to complete the first half as Child link, and that's not including the Gerudo Fortress.
>The mask sidequests are also shit, especially the one for the Couple's Mask
Nigger are you serious? Couple's Mask is the best sidequest in Zelda history.
>3DS babbies with timeskip wouldn't know this
Double song of time, kill yourself.
>At least in OoT they felt like dungeons, not obstacle courses.
Really? Ganon's Castle was even more obstacle-course than the MM dungeons.
>>334960606
I'll give you the Pirate Fortress being pretty lame, but if you have the stone mask it makes it a lot more bearable.
That said, the rest of the game is fine.
>>334960606
The gerudo fortress in MM was MUCH less a chore than the gerudo fortress in OOT, tho
>>334961183
Neither were good, but the Pirate Fortress is pretty bad. Intentionally making you fetch more eggs than you have bottles for is a really bad idea.
>>334958750
Same person you're replying to here.
Yes there's a few things like that. It's mostly a "try it here and see what it does" thing.
>>334960987
>the rest of the game is fine
No, the Deku and Goron segments were just as mindless and tedious really. The former's stealth section was fucking awful and the latter was made worse by certain elements like the screeching baby and that hilariouly fillerish ghost Goron chase.
Like I said, Ikana was the only good pre-dungeon segment that didn't feel like a massive waste of time.
Best graphics out of zelda games for sure
Art style is amazing. Looks even better on WiiU. However, the world feels empty and progression is pretty linear. Easiest dungeons in the whole Zelda series.
>>334960435
As opposed to... Goron Excitebike?
>>334960861
>Have to get a sword and shield before you go in.
Tutorial level. MM has one too.
>Have to backtrack to fucking the Lost Woods and then go BACK to the Gorons to get into the cavern.
I agree this was pointless, but if you're smart you can take the shortcut.
>Have to hurt the sole goron to get the fire tunic
Takes a couple of minutes, no big deal.
>Have to go through the frozen cavern to get ice boots.
>Have to go through the well and defeat the boss there.
Dungeons.
>Nigger are you serious? Couple's Mask is the best sidequest in Zelda history.
Wait for this. Okay now wait for this. Okay now hide behind that rock. Oh, you thought he wouldn't notice you peeking over that rock? TOO BAD DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN.
>Double song of time, kill yourself.
Still too much waiting.
>Really? Ganon's Castle was even more obstacle-course than the MM dungeons.
Talking about the shit at the end to get the Fierce Deity's Mask.
>>334961615
Ikana has that god-awful well. Yes, I know you can collect basically everything in the well.
>>334961615
> The former's stealth section was fucking awful
It's like a minute long
You
you didn't actually have trouble with it, did you?
> made worse by certain elements like the screeching baby and that hilariouly fillerish ghost Goron chase.
The ghost "Chase" is literally like 2 minutes of the entire game and easy as pie. Are you seriously complaining about something that piss-easy?
>>334961858
I never said either of those things were easy, learn to read.
And both are longer than just a couple of minutes so that's just dumb hyperbole on your part.
>>334962063
*weren't easy
>>334961832
>Tutorial level. MM has one too.
That's my point nigger.
>I agree this was pointless, but if you're smart you can take the shortcut.
You can't take the shortcut because you can't pick up bombs yet to blow the boulders leading to the lost woods.
>Dungeons.
If that was a dungeon than so was the Pirate's Fortress and Deku Palace.
>Takes a couple of minutes, no big deal.
Most of the stuff you complained about was the same thing.
>Wait for this.
or use the song of double time
>wait for this
or use the song of double time
>wait for this
or use the song of double time
>Still too much waiting.
Takes a couple of minutes, no big deal.
>Talking about the shit at the end to get the Fierce Deity's Mask.
I know, and if you think Ganon's castle is free of the obstacle course you really need to play it again.
>>334962063
>And both are longer than just a couple of minutes
Word of advice: mute the audio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba8ZZV6UNpc&ab_channel=SwimmingBird941
It literally takes 3-4 minutes to get from the start to the grave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omf820xXHCc&ab_channel=ZorZelda
takes only 9 minutes to get through from start-to-finish.
>>334941656
> Empty Ocean filled with tiny islands: The Game
> some of the worst dungeoms in the series
> Triforce Shard Quest
> best Zelda
Fuck off.
>>334962868
>3-4 minutes
>9 minutes
So like I said, you were exaggerating to make a point. You're also vastly underestimating how fucking torturous FIVE TO NINE minutes of pointlessness actually is.
And even then, the other parts outside of the stealth/ghost sections in those two segments weren't particularly fun either. You're literally either just doing mindless errands or having NPC convos, and the fact that it's piss-easy only makes it worse really.
>>334963538
>3-4 minutes
>not a couple of minutes
wot
> You're literally either just doing mindless errands or having NPC convos
Oh yeah, the Alien segment sure was mindless, can't believe I wasted time on that. Same with the goron racing to get the gilded sword. Don't forget about the pointless bomb mask quest, or the pointless mask of scents quest.
And the WORST of it had to have been the Gibdo mask, so fucking stupid.
>>334962403
>You can't take the shortcut because you can't pick up bombs yet to blow the boulders leading to the lost woods.Use a deku stick on the bomb flowers.
>Most of the stuff you complained about was the same thing.
Getting into Great Bay temple takes way more than a couple of minutes.
>I know, and if you think Ganon's castle is free of the obstacle course you really need to play it again.
It's still closer to being an actual dungeon.
>>334964110
>Getting into Great Bay temple takes way more than a couple of minutes.
and I already agreed that's a bad part of the game, but so is the Gerudo Fortress in OoT and the Spirit Temple almost as a whole.
>>334963892
I was referring specifically to the pre-dungeon segments in those areas, not the mask quests outside of them. You seem awfully desperate and butthurt about the fact that they just weren't interesting or fun at all.
>wot
4 minutes is closer to 5 than 2, and even if it was only 3 minutes my point still stands frankly. It's boring and it takes several minutes and that's all that matters.
>>334964110
>It's still closer to being an actual dungeon.
So what's the problem? You can't have challenge areas? They have to be dungeons or else?
>>334955672
Pandering to fucking who? Certainly not TLoZ fans. Nobody asked for Wind Waker, it came out of fucking nowhere.
>>334964330
>I was referring specifically to the pre-dungeon segments in those areas
you're referring to the Egg sidequest. Literally none of your other complaints are even remotely valid.
>You seem awfully desperate and butthurt about the fact that they just weren't interesting or fun at all.
You seem to be grabbing at straws to call MM bad.
>4 minutes is closer to 5 than 2 blah blah blah
oh boo fucking hoo to your semantics.
>It's boring
oh wow a shit opinion
>>334964613
I wasn't referring to the egg sidequest, I was referring to the entirety of the Deku, Goron and Zora segments inside their respective areas. I made that extremely clear, it's not my fault you're illiterate.
>oh wow what a shit opinion
I don't know what's funnier, the fact you're so buttblasted over this or the fact that you actually think the mindless stealth section, chasing a ghost around for several minutes, and the NPC errands outside of those in the pre-dungeon segments are actually enjoyable. Must come with being a mongoloid who enjoys filler and bad pacing I guess.
>>334964259
>and I already agreed that's a bad part of the game, but so is the Spirit Temple almost as a whole.
Anubis was the best enemy design in OoT, after Iron Knuckle. This is not up for debate.
>>334964348
>So what's the problem? You can't have challenge areas? They have to be dungeons or else?
Goron Excitebike was the only one that was remotely challenging (and even then, only until you realize that you just need to take your hand off yourjoystick).
>>334964471
Nobody still asks for it to this day.
>>334965113
Your definition of filler and everyone else's is clearly different. Your definition is "gameplay that I don't like".
>>334965383
So you did like those things I mentioned?
What, to you, was so fun about them? Genuinely curious, if only to laugh my ass off at whatever reasoning you come up with.
>>334965664
I think they're fine. I see nothing wrong with them. They're short burst of gameplay that lead to other bursts of gameplay.
The one segment that I'd agree with you on is the Pirate Fortress which is way too long, but the same can be said for the Gerudo fortress in OoT. Either way, both are padded out and unfun but you only have to do them once so w/e.
I personally love the stealth at the Deku Palace because it's something different, and the stuff you have to do to get there in the first place is untypical for Zelda.
The leadup to Snowhead I thought was great, the Goron's being miserable is a great way to show how fucked up Skull Kid has made the land and is a great example of Link actually saving a village. Plus the Goron rolling is the sickest shit ever and if you don't think so get out of my face.
Ikana Valley is amazing and the only part I dislike is the Gibdo well which goes on for a while, but is fairly quick and easy.
There's tons of content aside from the main game and I love it. If you don't that's fine, but don't state your opinion like it's fact and make up reasons why "the pacing is bad".
>>334965541
You do know reality already disproves this tired old strawman?
>>334966167
"It's different", "it's untypical" and "muh atmosphere" have nothing to do with the fact that it's all just blatant padding. Your reasoning is legitimately bad and you should feel bad. I honestly think this is hilarious though, the fact that you went to such great lengths to defend MM's most boring filler segments only to turn around and go B-BUT IT'S UNIQUE when you get pressed against a corner only shows how weak your arguments actually are.
Yes, there's tons of content outside of the main game and that's why I like MM so much. Yes, Goron rolling is fun. These points aren't even slightly related to mine though since I'm literally only referring to the main quest's pre-dungeon segments.
>>334967186
>it's all just blatant padding.
except it's not. It's gameplay that isn't copy-pasted.
>Your reasoning is legitimately bad and you should feel bad.
uhhhhhh
>These points aren't even slightly related to mine though since I'm literally only referring to the main quest's pre-dungeon segments.
I have already explained myself. You and I are the only ones left in this thread. I don't really give a shit anymore, I'm gonna play rust.
>>334967695
Padding doesn't only refer to "copypasted" content so apparently you don't know what that means either.
Please don't leave, I'm actually having a lot of fun with your retardation.
>>334949884
TP had more QTE than WW, so by that logic it's the worst zelda
>>334967985
Do explain what padding is, if not just copy-pasted content.
>>334952965
Because people who like SS have good taste
>>334954748
Swap mm and ss and I agree with this list
>>334968397
Anon, people who like SS have very low standards.
>>334943974
>WW
>good overworld
>implying dungeons aren't the most important part of zelda
WW was shit.
>>334957225
If you turn the letters in WW upside down you get the biggest disgrace in the zelda series
>>334968570
> low standards
> posts worst girl
>>334967985
Honestly though all Zeldas suffer from padding in some shape or form.
In Zelda 1 you had rupee grind. In Zelda 2 you had xp grind. In Alttp you had to traverse the overworlds a bagillion times because a lot of key items were spread out all over the place. LA overworld is by far the worst because you had bolders and holes all over the place. Oot was actually allright although the first 3 dungeons are a slog being tutorial levels. MM got retarded pretty fast because you needed a metric ton of bottles in every area after the swamp.
But yeah WW takes the cake at padding. It's so obvious they were trying to stretch the game for that magic 40 hour gameplay benchmark even if it meant doing slight variation on the same challenges 40 times.
>>334968363
Padding is when games add elements purely for the sake of lengthening time. All of my examples are the definition of that because A.) they don't require much skill or input and aren't even remotely integral to the core gameplay of the series and B.) like you said, they're all piss easy. So you're spending up to several minutes doing absolutely nothing exciting all just to get to the next big dungeon which is where the meat of the main story's content is.
"Copypasted" content is also vague and can either refer to padding or stuff that's not really padding at all.
>implying this isn't the best Zelda game ever made
Sure it was easy, but it had the greatest "Zelda-like" atmosphere of any game in the series. I can't think of a single dull moment in the entire game.
>>334969207
It's pretty boring though. Kinstones are kind of bullshit as well. It was bad enough with rings and gasha seeds in Oracles. But those weren't required to complete the game. Kinstones on the other hand hide a lot of the heart pieces.
>>334957225
You sure this will work?
>>334969207
The overworld was kinda shit, but it's a Fujibayashi game so I'm not really surprised.
>>334969207
Items were pretty meh tier.
>>334969137
>But yeah WW takes the cake at padding. It's so obvious they were trying to stretch the game for that magic 40 hour gameplay benchmark even if it meant doing slight variation on the same challenges 40 times.
Honestly, and I'm no defender of Wind Waker, but that description fits Squidward Sword a lot more.
>>334951024
Skyward Sword was pretty fun the first time but after that it was just tedious and ehhh
Skyward Sword should have gotten the HD remake without motion controls
>>334971065
>implying anyone even wants an HD version of that garbage
I wouldn't waggle to Skyward Sword with YOUR dick.
>>334971573
It'd at least better than a third fucking version of Twilight Princess
>>334941656
WW is fun as fuck. Doesn't have the best story, but the gameplay was nice. And I want to marry the guy that made the characters Design.
It easily enters my Top 3.
>Inb4
>Bad Taste
>>334941656
No, OP. This is the best Zelda game.
>>334973246
Nah, just means you only played three video games in your life.
>>334974194
>*My top 3 games of Zelda
I thought that if we were talking about Zelda games I didn't had to specify.
