Everyone knew Chrono Trigger would be a masterpiece.
Still the best JRPG
ITSA MASTAPIECE
>>334655406
Cross is better.
2d games age so well. This game will never look bad.
Yeah like people advertising a videogame would say a game sucks.
>>334658254
That's a preview. And GamePlayers of all mags would tell you when they think a game sucks
>>334655406
Good looking games always get kudos regardless of quality. It's why people always gloss over faults in games like Yoshi's Island, Okami and FFXII.
Just sayin'
>>334660557
this
i always felt like chrono trigger railroads you way too fucking much
>>334660557
>It's why people always gloss over faults in games like Yoshi's Island
Funny you should say that...
>>334661394
>>334661394
I hope who wrote that ended up living under a bridge
>>334656956
In what universe do you live in?
>>334660124
>Preview
Is a preview different from advertisement?
When the fuck was there a "Mad Max-style cycle race against the villain"?
>>334662643
Yes. Here's a preview of D44M: It sucks dicks
>>334660557
CT's first biggest fault isChrono Cross., its second fault is all its cut content, which is more of a shame than a real fault.
>>334655406
Shame the game sucked in reality.
>>334662714
They're wrong on the "villain" but it's in the pic above the line
>>334662595
Home World
>>334662794
Trolling a 20 year old game means you should reevaluate your priorities. Tons of new games to troll man
>>334662794
It didn't suck, but it was a very by-the-numbers RPG. It's a 7/10 at most, nothing close to a masterpiece.
>>334663090
This is a by the numbers rpg
>>334662175
See, I've never played crono trigger, but are they talking Star Trek Generations, First Contact, or the Simon Pegg one?
>>334663229
CT is generic as well, just in a different way.
>All sorts of vehicles
You mean the one? I guess there's the dino's but they work exactly the same way as the Epoch.
>one of the high points is a race against the villain
What?
>>334663529
>>334663090
>game that set most of the rpg cliches and tropes
>its generic
>>334663529
What's generic about it? Besides saving the world from evil?
>>334656956
hey everyone look at the retard!
>>334663507
At that point, the most up-to-date one was Star Trek VI. But they're just saying "it's not your old-fart uncle's sci-fi, no sir".
>>334663957
It has nothing notworthy or revolutionary. Gameplay is the usual turn-based fare with no special changes, story is "beat the big bad" and the story or characters aren't that good either. Really, the only thing that sets it apart is the graphics and music, but that's not enough to make it a great game, much less a masterpiece.
>>334663908
Oh, really? What are those "cliches and tropes" that it set?
>>334663027
How is it trolling? If I didn't enjoy the game 20 years ago, why should I act like I do now?
>>334663090
Even by-the-numbers games can be fun. CT was actively unfun.
>>334664357
I'm more looking for actual examples rather than personal opinion, because so far it's not 'generic', you just don't appreciate it. Which is fine.
>>334664448
>Even by-the-numbers games can be fun. CT was actively unfun.
True. The game definitely felt like a real slog at places.
>>334664448
>How is it trolling? If I didn't enjoy the game 20 years ago, why should I act like I do now?
You should probably let it go. It's been 20 years. you're not going to change anyone's mind one way or the other.
>>334664564
>I'm looking for real examples, not opinions
Newsflash, anon, but almost every single criticism in the world is "up to opinion". There's no point in talking about anything if you're just gonna say, "well, it's all up to opinion".
You could say that Chrono Trigger being generic is "up to opinion", but really, there really isn't anything special or revolutionary about this game at all. It's a pretty game, yeah, but aside from the barebones time-travelling plot, it's still very generic.
>>334665163
Chrono Trigger is deep and meaningful
https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/CTT:ChronoEnigma.html
>>334665163
So you have no actual examples, huh?
gameplayers was sort of controversial before right?
or was it gamepro?
>>334665796
Yes, anybody can overanalyze things to make them look deep and meaningful.
>>334665903
Well, it's awfully difficult for me to list things that were generic about it, since it's hard for me to recall all the boring things. But since you seem to be so vigorously defending it, why don't you give me examples of things you think WEREN'T tripe and cliche?
>>334666274
It was the most racey gaming mag that I recall. A fun read.
>>334666370
>Yes, anybody can overanalyze things to make them look deep and meaningful.
Not Mayrio. Even if he's a communist it isn't really deep. Gotta be religious to be deep.
>why don't you give me examples of things you think WEREN'T tripe and cliche?
Sounds like you're shifting the burden of proof to him ;3
>>334666370
>Doesn't remember what is generic about it
How do you know anything was generic?
>>334660124
to be fair they never tore into a game pre-release, even if it looked like it was going to turn out like garbage they'd give it a "it has issues but there's still time to work them out"
>>334666617
He probably feels that a spikey haired kid with a sword saving the world is generic. But if you look at games before CT there actually weren't that many spikey haired protags. Crono started it all. Now a sword is somewhat generic but Crono used a katana rather than a broadsword which was a bit unusual at the time when more series were closer to "standard medieval"
>>334666531
>Sounds like you're shifting the burden of proof to him ;3
Perhaps, but he seems to me that he considers my evidence to be "merely opinion", so I'd like to see what he considers to be objective facts.
>>334666617
Well, the battle system was boring, the characters were bland archetypes with little development or dialogue, the story itself was boring and had the worst kind of villain (the villain without any real sentience or interaction), and basically everything else about it, from the treasure boxes to the grains of sand are very tripe.
But please, pray tell, if this is just me not "appreciating it", what do you consider to be so great?
>>334656956
I agree. It's also great that this opinion still gets trigger kids mad so many years later.
>>334667253
Not him but Chrono Trigger is like the Doremi of RPGs. To someone who has no light left in his eyes, it's just a generic magical girl animoo. But to those who can truly see, it is RAABBADAABBOOBOOINABANG
>>334667635
>>334666957
I agree that a protag using a sword is pretty generic. That's a good example and I wish there were more variety.
>>334667253
>the battle system was boring
That's an opinion, not an example. You not liking something doesn't equal 'generic'.
>the characters were bland archetypes
Again just because you think they're bland doesn't make something generic. A 'protagonist uses a sword' is generic because it's so widely used. I can't think of too many RPGs with frog-knights, robo-helpers, a villain that lost their family and plots revenge, an outgoing geek girl inventor and so on.
>little development or dialogue
Okay I'm beginning to think you didn't even play the game.
>had the worst kind of villain (the villain without any real sentience or interaction)
Lavos doesn't directly speak to you, but you learn a lot about it throughout the game. It's not a simple 'an ancient evil awakens from the depths are you a bad enough dude to kill it?'
So you brought up, like, one flimsy example of something actually being generic. Want to try again?
>>334668791
>outgoing geek girl inventor
Might be rare but it instantly reminded me of pic related who is...nothing like Lucca somehow
I know hating on CT is popular these days, but its still my favorite game of all time. It does everything at least average and some things - like soundtrack, pacing, and double techs - exceptionally well. When I start thinking of my favorite parts of the game, it becomes a series of events that starts to cover huge swaths of the content with only one or two small parts that I like a little bit less.
>>334667253
>and had the worst kind of villain (the villain without any real sentience or interaction)
Considering the alternative villains at the time were things like FFIV's "evil because I'm evil" and FFVI's "evil because I'm crazy," Lavos's "I'm not really evil but I gotta eat your planet to reproduce, hey don't blame me I didn't make the rules" was a pretty interesting change. It's ethically not even an evil creature at all. Hell, humanity owes Lavos its entire history since Lavos chose humans over reptites for intelligence and success way back then.
ATB is seriously shit though
it was only well used in parasite eve
>>334669363
Did you like JRPGs before 2009 or so?
>>334669476
i dont like any modern JRPG
>>334669674
Did you like any past JRPGs?
>ATB is seriously shit though
Okay sorry I asked.
>>334668791
>That's an opinion, not an example
See? See what I mean?
The game is turn-based ATB rubbish that has been around for a long time. This is not new. Just because you're in the 1% that thinks shit tastes good doesn't mean it isn't valid criticism.
>A 'protagonist uses a sword' is generic because it's so widely used.
Which means it's boring. We've already seen it before, and Crono certainly isn't upping the ante.
And while it's true that not every game has an anthromorphic frog, the character itself is the "gallant knight with a strong moral compass", which is generic. The same way Robo is a "sympathetic robot with a 'human heart'", and so forth.
>Okay I'm beginning to think you didn't even play the game.
Nice argument, friend. You're really packing the heat here.
>It's not a simple 'an ancient evil awakens from the depths are you a bad enough dude to kill it?'
No, actually, that's almost exactly how it's treated. The difference between "destroying cuz it's evil" and "destroying cuz it has to" is irrelevant, since it has no dialogue, so you have no reason to feel sympathetic.
>>334655406
>hefty 32 Megs!
>>334669730
yes
you know, the ones that aren't shit and don't use ATB like the megaten games or even the earliest final fantasy games
>>334669981
I don't see why you would like pure turn based more than ATB. There's almost no difference in entertainment quality.
>>334670118
yes there is
ATB makes you wait constantly, it's fucking boring as shit and you just have to sit there and take it while enemies attack you AND also pause the ATB bar because they have to attack you
it's dumb and counter-intuitive
>>334670247
>Babbie can't wait and he's playing an RPG
Seems like cawwadoodie may be more your speed
>>334670357
enjoy random battles that last like 2 minutes which would normally last like 40 seconds in a normal RPG i guess
>>334670516
S'alright
>>334670357
also give me a fucking break, the games that tend to use ATB are barely RPGs compared to the western stuff
chrono trigger is some railroaded bullshit with no real control over anything that happens
>>334670357
There's a difference between "being able to wait" and "wanting to wait", you idiot.
>>334669798
>game is turn-based ATB rubbish that has been around for a long time
The game has been around for a long time. Give it a break. It had positional and differing AoE-type attacks along with joined attacks which made it not generic, especially at the time it was made. This is just fact.
>the character itself is the "gallant knight with a strong moral compass"
No stronger than anyone else in the group save for Magus. I mean if you're going to bring up being a decent person as 'generic' then you're really treading into retard territory.
>The same way Robo is a "sympathetic robot with a 'human heart'"
And how many videogames have this?
>Nice argument, friend. You're really packing the heat here.
Okay let me go into detail. There is LOADS of dialog for each character. In fact, Robo would be one of the least 'developed' characters in the whole game, and there's 3 whole sections where he is absolutely needed because of telling his story and character.
Scratch that, Chrono is the least developed, but he's got no real character beyond acting as an insert for the person playing.
Marle runs from home because she hates her royal life and wants to adventure. She hates her father and feels unloved, but throughout the course of the game she grows to not only accept her responsibilities as a princess, but we even learn a good deal about her bloodline.
Lucca may seem shallow at first but we learn later on that she watched her mother get crippled by a machine. It encouraged her to learn machinery and even a small comment like "Robots aren't good or evil" when fixing Robo, because she understands the machines are only able to respond the way they were built.
So there's just two examples where maybe if you paid some attention you'd see there's LOTS of dialog and development. God damn.
>No, actually, that's almost exactly how it's treated
No, actually, it isn't. There's lots of dialog about Lavos - it's simply indirect.
magus did nothing wrong.
>>334656956
>Cross is better.
Cross is better than almost every Final Fantasy too.(except FF7 and Tactics)
So yea, keep trucking my friend. The truth needs to be said.
>>334671352
The whole "enemy positioning" feature is barely even involved or relevant at all, most the time it's just a side-thing where, "oh, look, now I can hit one enemy with my strongest attack instead of two". Dual Techs are interesting in concept, but are under-utilized and devolve into just another "strong attack" button.
>I mean if you're going to bring up being a decent person as 'generic' then you're really treading into retard territory.
Yes, it is. Acting good just for the sake of acting good is the ultimate generic trait and composes a motive-less and weak character.
>And how many videogames have this?
Videogames, movies, books, a WHOLE LOT of things have this. "A robot that feels emotion" is a VERY generic trait, and if yoy don't realize that, then you need more exposure. Hopefully I don't have to list examples for you.
>Marle
Yes, it's true that she's a tomboy princess that shirks her duties. No, she doesn't grow because after her first story arc, she isn't relevant at all. No dialogue or relevance, she basically becomes a tool for combat. Even so, that still doesn't make for a great character.
Same with Lucca. Oh, yes, she has a tragic backstory! But is that really essential at all? No. Does it become a major plot-point later that makes her character shine? No. She becomes irrelevant and remains underdeveloped for the remainder of the adventure.
And those are just small examples. If you took the time, you would see that all the characters are shallow, basic, and not interesting at all. God damn.
>No, actually, it isn't. There's lots of dialog about Lavos - it's simply indirect.
The "lots" of dialogue we see about Lavos is basically people just saying "oh god, he'll destroy everything"! Sure, he has a purpose to be there, but that still doesn't make him good. Lavos is barely even a character, just a setpiece. It's like calling the Meteor in FFVII a good villain.
>>334669828
They were also referring to megabits, meaning it was 4 megabytes.
Also
>Sell the house, sell the kids, accept no substitutes
If only ads were like this today...
>>334670612
On the point of RPGs being slow, plodding games you won't get any difference in the Japanese side or the western side.
>>334670752
Cawwadooty players are also able to wait, but don't want to. Waiting games just aren't for them.
a lot of chrono triggers problem is they never know who is in your party so everyones lines have to be roughly the same.
its too bad since to unlock all the endings you have to beat the fucker like 14 times.
>>334673607
You only have to play the game around 3 times to do that though since you fight Lavos at random times all during your only NG+ playthrough and you need some variation as far as Magus and Frog and whether you ditch the Epoch or not.
>>334673591
>Cawwadooty players are also able to wait, but don't want to. Waiting games just aren't for them.
do you not see the inherent problem with ATB
it was designed to make battles more exciting and it does the perfect contrary of that
>>334656956
Its not better either worse, is just different.
People bitch about Cross just because it wasn't Chrono Trigger 2, the game aged like wine and don't look like totally trash even today
>>334655406
>One of Chrono's high points is a Mad Max-style cycle race against the villain.
>Thanks to all the time hopping, you wind up with all sorts of odd vehicles at your disposal.
>>334672773
>Acting good just for the sake of acting good
So the whole thing about him being bullied as a kid, about being skilled with a blade but being unable to actually take a life, about how he failed to protect those he loved and ultimately got the courage to fight and quit hiding from the world as the one worthy the wield the masamune against Magus - this is all 'good for the sake of good with no motivation' for you? Holy fucking Hell.
>Hopefully I don't have to list examples for you
List some. Videogames only, plz.
>No, she doesn't grow because after her first story arc, she isn't relevant at all
Her 'first story arc' is all the way from the beginning of the fucking game to the group heading to the end of time for the first time. That is absolutely HUGE.
>Does it become a major plot-point later that makes her character shine?
Uh... yeah? You learn this all near the end of the game.
>She becomes irrelevant and remains underdeveloped for the remainder of the adventure
The 'remainder of the adventure' being just before the final boss fight, yeah.
>The "lots" of dialogue we see about Lavos is basically people just saying "oh god, he'll destroy everything"
So you missed the whole section of Zeal where they were looking to tap into Lavos in their lust for power? They sure weren't talking about how it'll destroy everything.
Chrono Trigger is seriously so fun all these years later.
>>334673786
I don't think it was necessarily designed to make battles more exciting, just more time based. If they wanted to force excitement they wouldn't have had a wait mode where i can just enter a spell menu and sit there while the enemy's ATBs freeze
>>334660557
>>yoshis island bad
utterly shit taste. you should change hobbies.
>>334660557
tell that to gerstmann
>>334672773
>she isn't relevant at all
>No. She becomes irrelevant
>relevant
Another buzzword like 'generic'. Turn the game off and nothing about it is relevant. I'm so sorry that you think learning more about a character in an RPG isn't 'relevant'.
>>334674441
No, anon, they aren't "buzzwords", they are words with actual definitions if you would bother to look them up. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they don't actually mean something.
>>334674441
Commander Shephard is relevant. Now extend his legend by buying more DLC, goy.
>>334674619
Oh I'm not saying they aren't actual words, I'm saying this retard is using them as buzzwords because he has no idea what they actually mean.
Mostly because he doesn't actually know much about the game so he can't really define what's bad about it, so generic terms (haha) like 'generic' and 'irrelevant' are easy.
>>334673906
Again, ovet-dramatizing can make anything sound good. All this is told to you through a nice exposition dump halfway; we never see Frog develop ourselves, we just complete some dungeons and then he's ready to progress the plot. Sure, it's development, but it's weak development.
>Her 'first story arc' is all the way from the beginning of the fucking game to the group heading to the end of time for the first time. That is absolutely HUGE.
Uh, really? Because I can't remember anything significant happening with her up until that point. She just kinda becomes a tag-along.
>Uh... yeah? You learn this all near the end of the game.
No, anon, this isn't what I'm talking about. Just because it happens near the end doesn't mean it's significant. It's just a random piece of backstory that exists just to exist.
>So you missed the whole section of Zeal where they were looking to tap into Lavos in their lust for power? They sure weren't talking about how it'll destroy everything.
And yet, what happens next? He destoys everything. Even so, it still doesn't add much to him as a character, just as a set-piece.
>replay chrono trigger
im not going to jail this time.
>at start stand next to bell but away from where nadia is.
>dont move even slightly.
she mad
>>334674784
Anon, they are adjectives, and they define things. When he says something is relevant, what he's saying is
>closely connected or appropriate to the matter at hand.
Defining something with an adjective isn't a cop-out, and you're being the retard to think that somebody using these words, even repeatedly, is devoid of meaning.
>>334661394
>YI
>graphics and sound effects aren't up to usual standards
What the fuck?
>>334675773
There were a decent amount of people back in the day that didn't like YI's art style. Why don't you hear from them anymore? They got jobs and quit gaming.
>>334673906
>>334675127
Oh, and by the way, anon, in case you wanted that list, you'll find plenty of examples here.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrewBeyondTheirProgramming?from=Main.GrowBeyondTheirProgramming
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JustAMachine
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoAndroidsDream
>>334675773
People thought games that didn't look like muh three dee dunkey kung cuntry that late into the snes lifecycle looked bad
