How do we stop open world apologists from existing?
>>334405947
wait for the bubble to burst
people are catching on that open world = empty, lifeless field
Open world is fine if it's the focus.
MGSV is a good example of fucking it up. Decent game over all, but the open world is empty and pointless.
Open world isn't inherently bad. It's just that most devs can't do it correctly.
The same applies to linear designs, by the way.
>>334406326
Open world is inherently bad on a game that relies so heavily on level design
I wish level hubs would make a comeback. I had so much fun fucking around the castle in mario 64. its a shame that the other 3d mario hubs weren't nearly as interesting.
>fuck freedom of speech, I will kill people who don't like my games myself
you need help.
>>334406413
No, it's not. With level designers skilled enough and a lot of time it's possible to create an entire map with every single part correctly connected to its adjecents, creating a great sense of flow that was found in the first game.
Dying Light is a good (and also the only) example of an open world parkour game where the entire map is well-designed around parkour.
>people are trying to get companies like Nintendo and Sega to turn Mario and Sonic into open world platformers
Might as well slap the 2/10 score on before they're made.
>>334406413
Not at all, unless by "open world" you mean "no linear sections at all." A game can have a large hub world and still be filled to the brim with linear challenges.
>>334406413
I don't think Mirror's Edge was particularly good to begin with, frankly.
>>334405947
You can't. The open world genre's completely fine and is responsible for many of our all-time favorites.
Stop acting like a faggot because you can't stop confusing "empty" with "not needlessly bloated with things on every square inch of the map".
>>334406123
>wait for the bubble to burst
I've been waiting for this bubble to burst since fucking 2008, fampai. For how long do I need to keep waiting?
>>334405947
How do we stop platformer apologists from existing?
Not everybody wants to play Sanic and Mario all the time.
>>334407450
>>334407335
>The open world genre's completely fine and is responsible for many of our all-time favorites.
Aside from some GTA games and some GTA-like games, there's not a single good open world game that wouldn't be considerably better if it were not open world. Not one.
>>334405947
Thank you OP
I'm not down to clown with open-world game design, and it baffles me how many people dislike linear design and champion open world design.
This is all subjective, but here are a few of the reasons I don't typically enjoy open world games:
> Pacing can no longer be tightly controlled, as players dictate the rate at which content is consumed
> Boring, uneventful travelling from content point to content point
> Developers often place busywork filler content in the map to pad it
> Developers often neglect to fill the world with interesting systems (e.g. civilian movements, trading routes, shit that makes it feel alive)
> The world itself is often large, but relatively uninteresting, compared to the tightly developed theatrical set-design styles of linear levels. You often hear developers say stuff like "See that mountain in the distance? You can climb it!" This does not interest me unless there is something cool on that mountain or the act of traversing it is exciting. A lot of the time, the reality is I'm walking diagonally up a slope in the hopes that I can "cheat" the incline and scale it.
> Developers often tie resource-management/base-building mechanics into open-world games, which I rarely enjoy, as they feel like distractions I'm obligated to engage in so that I don't miss cool shit
Half the time, the game doesn't even truly need to be open-world, as we the players typically travel to content points (e.g. bases, strongholds) where the action happens. These are often more tightly designed than the world that contains them, so its almost like the open-world is a redundant feature: a kind of fancy corridor we traverse to reach these "bubbles" of action. The games are rarely truly sprawling, as action is contained to these small radii of content, which are themselves encapsulated in a relatively empty, uninteresting world.
Linear games bore me now. I can't get over the feeling of just being forced down a hallway.
>>334406536
The souls games say hi.
>>334408041
TES games
>>334408041
Except for most open world games the open world either is part of the appeal or the biggest appeal period. Your argument is nonsensical because it excludes a major aspect of those games by default.
I like my open world racing games.
>just going around on a fixed circuit
>>334407450
>No other company has made an openworld with that scope
I wonder if they'll retract that with Xenoblade X now
>>334406536
Observatory was pretty decent, Delfino Plaza would have been great if not for the yoshi boat trip, and starship Mario was an abomination
>>334408859
Now thaf I think about it, Super Mario Sunshine is the closest Mario has come to open world.
It's not over... not yet. Resident Evil is going to go "open world" soon and all of the normies will eat that shit up.
>>334408459
All garbage. The only game that manages to be mediocre to decent is Morrowind, and it's no coincidence that it happens to be the Elder Scrolls game with the smallest map of all the games.
>>334408718
Yeah, and the vast majority of those games are trash.
Hub Based > Linear >>> Shit Open World
Weren't people hoping for the sequel to be open world in the first place? People didn't like the linearity of the first one.
>>334408049
You sound hilariously pretentious.
The point of open worlds is to feel an open-ended sense of exploration, travel and scenery that linear games simply don't provide. If you can't immerse yourself in activities like scaling a giant mountain or checking every nook and cranny of massive forests, you'll never understand the appeal of the genre and might as well just concede that it isn't for you instead of pointlessly trying to derail it in an "objective" sense.
>>334405947
>apologists
Open world did nothing wrong. The fans and devs of open world are the ones that ruin it.
>>334406123
Unnecessary.
>>334406993
your opinion's shit though
if they ruin ME2 i'm going to fucking kill myself familia
>>334409463
If I couldn't play other 3D games because of (laptop) performance, playing TES without textures and whatnot would be entertaining.
>>334409463
>baiting this hard
>>334409592
Yeah, back in 2008. It's been 8 years since and "Open World Freedom" has since been translated into run back and forth across a big, non interactive empty space to complete side quests.
>>334409881
He's absolutely right. Nobody likes linear RPGs. Nobody fucking cares about FF XIII.
>>334409653
This
I enjoyed the base game of Dragon's Dogma very much, getting jumped by Chimeras while exploring, Cyclops sleeping by waterfalls; Griffins hunting cows
The problem for me with open world games is that they don't feel as cool after a while.
That's why Everfall and BBI are there, though.
>>334409463
>Hub Based > Linear >>> Shit Open World
>Hub Based
>>334410090
Not baiting at all. The Elder Scroll games are trash. Morrowind is the only bearable one. All Fallout games post 2 are trash too, including New Vegas, which only has a few locations worth visiting.
The Witcher 1 and 2 were great and then The Witcher 3 was made a dozen times worse than the other games because the developers had to waste their time trying (and failing) to make the world not feel lifeless and boring, instead of using that time to design smaller but more focused areas like in the other games.
ITT: Faggots getting butthurt that not every game is Mario or Crash Bandicoot or Uncharted
Just end your lives.
>>334411008
Here's a list of a few hub based games:
Deus Ex and Deus Ex Human Revolution
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl
Vampire Masquerade: Bloodlines
The Witcher 1 and 2
Fallout 1 and 2
K.O.T.O.R. 1 and 2
To be fair, it's a bit silly of me to say that hub based is better than linear. That's not necessarily true. Some games work best hub world, others work best linear.
Open World, on the other hand, is trash by default unless it's GTA or a GTA clone.
Until Bethesda stops making bucketloads of cash with TES or Fallout game, regardless of whether you feel the games themselves are bad, people will keep trying to imitate them.
Not to mention Rockstar. Actually Rockstar is probably an even bigger factor in this.
>>334409653
>might as well just concede that it isn't for you instead of pointlessly trying to derail it in an "objective" sense.
>This is all subjective, but here are a few of the reasons I don't typically enjoy open world games:
learn to read family
gosh darn
>>334411490
Haven't GTA clones been declining lately?
>>334411008
Ds 1 was pseudo hub based
>>334411598
Yeah. Rockstar was a huge factor in the initial popuarity of open world games. But I feel like Bethesda has been the torch everyone follows in recent years.
>>334411331
A lot of those are more open world than hub-based.
A true hub-based game would be more along the lines of Mario 64 and Crash, where you're just warping and there's no sense of travel or connectivity between locales and the central base.
>>334406413
>>334406326
This desu family.
Open world takes a fuckton of effort and good design to get right.
It feels lifeless and shit otherwise.
But when they get it right;
they get it goddamn right
>>334406123
Mirrors edge 1 felt very much lifeless
>>334405947
Just compare Arkham Asylum to Arkham City. One of those was praised to hell despite the other having perfect level design and being more focused. Open world = time sink, so people usually judge the value of a game by their playtime.
>>334411020
>only bearable one
stating opinions as facts is an unhealthy practice. Morrowind is, to me one of the best games I ever played. The quests, the sense of exploration, the hidden places and items, nothing could have worked without the open world, if you don't see the value it brings, you're either blind or a fool.
>>334408769
Fuck you, Burnout died because of you.
>>334411684
Shenmue 1 is one of the game that started it i think, right ?
but yeah, Rockstar games was a huge factors in the open world popularity. I don't get why GTA 5 world is called " A boring, with no life, world" when it's literally the same going on in SA/VC/4 :/ even 4, i can't understand the map comparison with GTA 5, the fact is the game takes places only in a town and there is no other thing than a town, of course it will be more alive than a desert or a mountain or a forest..
>>334406234
>but the open world is empty and pointless.
Literally what? MGSV is among the best examples of open world because of how much depth the game's mechanics have compared to most other open world games like GTA where your character has a large world and can go everywhere, but can't DO a lot.
>/v/ designs an open world game
>>334411020
>everything is trash because I say so
Open Linear > "Open World Meme"
Prove me wrong
They're not going away.
Eventually they'll just get so easy to make that it will be hard to screw them up.
>>334407450
>No other company has made an openworld with that scope
Witcher 3
Red Dead Redemption
Grand Theft Auto series
Just Cause 2
Metal Gear Solid 5
Assassin's Creed 2
Xenoblade Chronicles X
Are these people genuinely retarded? I've seen this statement often. "Bethesda games have such a massive scale and scope to them". No, not fuckin' really. The airships in Fallout 4 were a massive deal because they added a hint of verticality and even then they were bare bones at best and garbage at worst. Fuckin' hell. I swear it's like these people don't play games other than the most mainstream shit. It's like a group of people arguing that The Avengers is the best movie maybe ever, and I'm sitting over here with my copy of The Godfather.
>>334412697
This makes a good point. A really good game but a really bad open world is something like Dragon's Dogma, which has you fighting no-danger harpies, bandits, and wolves every two fucking steps while you're trying to traverse the world
>>334413009
>Open Linear
Elaborate.
>>334413074
>What are portcrystals
Open World is fun the first time you explore.
>>334412000
PARADISE WAS THE BEST ONE.
>plowing into traffic being anything other than idea stagnation
>>334413054
I'm guessing it's about Skyrim which was before MGSV, W3 and XCX
>>334412256
There's nothing the open world adds beyond extra time between reaching copy paste settlements.
Witcher 3 wasn't bad.
So what IS the best open world game, experts?
>>334413481
Dark souls
>>334413054
None of the games you mentioned have the same scope in terms of world and world building. What Bethesda lacks is in gameplay complexity and possibilities past Morrowind.
>>334413481
DDDA
>>334413294
Ok and what about the other four games I listed? I could list plenty before Skyrim's release.
For whatever reason, normies fucking love Skyrim. I worked with a girl who loved it and then admitted she just watches it on youtube. I thought that shit was the internet making it up, but fuckin' hell it's really not.
Speaking of the internet becoming real: This also happened near me.
http://wfla.com/2016/04/12/tampa-teacher-suspended-after-quizzing-students-on-gender/
>>334413549
Metroidvanias are not open world.
>>334413603
>world building
Three paragraph-long books isn't "world building".
>>334413481
Red Dead Redemption is pretty good, the world feels fairly alive in singleplayer.
DDDA would be good if it wasn't so barebones, have more peasants doing stuff, more neutral settlements, and more variety in the landscape.
Witcher 3 is also a good contender.
Open world = shit level design. No thought put into enemy placement. No unique encounters.
>every game has to be open world
>every game needs a crafting system
>every game needs a morality system
>every game needs hundreds of weapons
>every game needs survival elements
>every game needs a minimap
>every game needs a wallhack ability
>every game needs cinematic takedowns
I hate the current state of AAA games. Devs don't even stop to consider if a feature is relevant to the game they're making, they just go through a check list and cram in as much as they can.
>people are starting to unconditionally hate open worlds
You have no idea how happy this makes me. Will this blight really be gone in my lifetime?
>>334405947
mirror's edge was always me to to be open world, long before the flood of open world games
Open world? More like empty world amiriteSeriously though, fuck open worlds
>>334413825
What a sweeping statement that is completely wrong in every sense of the word.
We could all stop existing instead.
I'm sure that'd show 'em.
>>334413831
You forgot the biggest one of them all
>rpg elements
I.e. bare bones upgrade path. Not even a "tree"
>>334413825
Level design is too videogamey, open worlds more closely resemble real life with lots of boring spaces in it and a better sense of scale.
>>334413603
Dude, open world Bethesda games PALE in comparison to some of the games that anon mentioned. They usually have more bugs as well and don't look nearly as good.
Really, Bethesda has nothing going for them.
![#05-Recall.mkv_snapshot_22.00_[2016.04.15_21.34.07].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/u0Sw30L.jpg "#05-Recall.mkv_snapshot_22.00_[2016.04.15_21.34.07].jpg")
>>334406326
even if devs do it correctly though it's not really rewarded. Fallout 4 (which follows the lazy "giant map filled with busywork padding"-design) is selling like hot cakes and getting GOTY awards while Obsidian crafted a world with interesting stories, characters and sidequests in Fallout: NV. I think the problem is that the majority of consumers are semi-monogamers who want a simple mmo-like-design to waste time with.
>>334411697
>A lot of those are more open world than hub-based.
Nope. You have no idea what you're talking about.
>>334413992
I can't believe I forgot that one. Grind XP to upgrade your weapons and make the game even easier.
>>334413767
Actually, it is, whether you like it or not (I don't like it that much)
It doesn't stop at that, though, and I'm pretty sure you know it.
>>334414082
We're talking about open worlds in games, not the games themselves. I personally don't prefer Skyrim to any of the games in his list, but the concept is different and is worthwile (as shown in Morrowind imo)
What people here think separate levels have
>level design, every grass patch matters, level design, every stone is unique, level design, your every step is an adventure, level design
What actually is the difference between levels and open world
>Loading... Loading... Loading...
>>334406123
>open world = empty, lifeless field
In most instances sure but it can be done right. I actually feel that DA:I had a pretty good compromise. The zones were large enough to feel vast but focused enough so that they didn't feel like everything was meaningless filler
>>334413259
>Implying that makes the early game any less tedious with
>WOLVES HUNT IN PACKS
>every ten goddamn seconds
Everyone on here was sucking the dick of the open world meme until very recently. What was the game that changed the opinion of most people here?
>>334411697
>those games
>not semi-linear hub based
nigga what the fuck
>>334414635
MGSV
>>334414563
on the pc version you can turn pawn voices off
>>334414635
People don't play games here, they follow the newest hivemind meme.
>>334414635
A very long streak of bad games, also Dark Souls brought back the love for good linear design.
>>334405947
open world is fine if they fill the open world with interesting things
like Red dead redemption.
Witcher 3 suffered a bit but was still damn great open world.
>>334414563
THEY ILL LIKE FIRE
>>334405947
Show them the first half of Dark Souls
>>334414306
>get a "collectors edition" or "pre order DLC"
>it comes with extra weapons and starting cash
>can't turn it off
>makes the game EZmode
why even bother
>>334414635
skyrim
>>334414465
>DA:I
>Open world stuff didn't feel like mindless filler
Are you fucking high?
>>334414457
I'd take a 10 second load screen over a 5 minute car drive any day of the week.
>>334414635
I've been iffy on open world games. some are decent, most are just mediocre.
I think Ubisoft really killed the open world game genre. most of their games are just checklists.
>>334414635
/v/ being contrarian.
>open world becomes moderately popular
>/v/'s response is "Well open world doesn't work for everything and isn't always done well"
>open world becomes VERY popular
>/v/'s response is "it's all shit!"
>>334414879
this and probably most recent ubisoft releases
I don't think open world itself is a bad idea, the problem is that barely anyone knows how to make a decent open world game or they just make an open map and put designated play areas where there's stuff to do and then the rest is just empty shit.
Most of the shit open world games would have been much better if they were hub based, it's much harder to fuck up a hub based game than an open world one.
>>334414801
GOBLINS HATE ICE AND FIRE BOTH
>>334414635
I've always hated them. I assume a lot of people are the same, and this us just one of the rare occassions everyone becomes vocal at once. Open worlds really are the worst. If it's riddled with dlc I'll wait until it's half price, if it's open world I just don't touch it.
The more people who kick off the better, really.
>>334415016
I agree
Open world is like comunism
It's not bad it's just no one knows how to do it correctly
>let casual friend play open world game (GTA4)
>instantly goes on a murderous rampage
>gets wasted
>Ok haha that was fun right, why not try a mission n-
>instantly goes on another murderous rampage
What is wrong with casuals? Why do they hate direction?
>>334415316
>CHILL, BRO
>IT'S JUST A GAME
>>334414963
>I think Ubisoft really killed the open world game genre
This might have been true a couple of years ago, but I think plenty of developers have improved on the genre recently. Witcher 3 is a good example, even MGSV at least made sure there were plenty of materials to find and collect around the map in case there were no enemies around.
>>334415316
The missions are shit in gta games
>>334415316
Same reason they make games easier, people don't want any sort of challenge.
>>334414635
There are some excellent open world games out there. The problem is that an open world can detract from the quality of a game in which it doesn't belong. See the Arkham series.
Im actually hopeful about the open world bit of ME2
I always thought it would be a good idea when playing the first one, just gotta pray they don't massivley fuck it up
>>334414635
Ubisoft games and GTA V for me.
>>334415208
One could argue that if nobody can do it correctly, it is bad.
Like the inverse of 'if it's stupid but it works, it's not stupid'.
If it's brilliant but it doesn't work, it's not brilliant.
>>334415186
>Devilfire Grove before slaying Grigori
>spot a fucking dragon ? what the fuck ?
>Pawns : CAREFUL, MASTER ! GOBLINS !
>>334415316
If he's having fun, what's the problem?
Not even gonna lie, sometimes I fuck around in GTA games too.
>>334414635
I've been hating Sandbox games that weren't GTA or GTA clones since 2008 at the very least. And I always despised Elder Scrolls other than Morrowind, which I thought was decent.
>>334415316
>it's a "I will lie that I never fucked around in open world games, just to have people to agree with me in this thread, because I have no actual reason to really hate those types of game, it's just a thing on /v/ now and I have to repeat everything, I have to repeat everything, I have to repeat everything" episode
Open world killed games, devs no longer think about creating memorable games, they think about creating large virtual worlds that no one will remember.
It's shit, it's repetitive and it kills detail.
Open world forces devs to use shitty world randomizer to fill in the size of the world which ultimately makes the game immersion dull.
I thought devs had gotten over the GTA era 10 years ago. What happened ?
Did you enjoy MGS:V open world ?
Did you enjoy Skyrim open world ?
Did you enjoy Fallout open world ?
Dont kid yourself, it was fun for the first hour but then it got bland because there was no sense of progression and it was a waste of time so you ended up teleporting everywhere to complete those minigames called "story more".
>>334409653
But everybody just follows quest arrows from point to point and complains that they "don't have the free time" to explore and that getting lost sucks.
>>334414635
My opinion never changed. I've known that there were bad open world games ever since the PS2 era, I've never sucked the dick of the open world genre (unless it's in regards to Zelda or Final Fantasy) and I've never hated it either.
No Mans Sky will shatter the Open World stereo type
Its whole premise is on exploration but theres nothing to explore besised trees, rocks, and bipedal retard in different colours
>>334415561
Especially bad if you're bringing along someone else's pawn and they just decided to make the pawn's voice sound like a eunuch
>HOBGOBLINS ARISEN BE WARY
>>334416071
>Did you enjoy MGS:V open world ?
Actually, yeah, I did.
>>334416071
>(insert anything) killed games
lel
>>334416356
TIS A FORMIDABLE FOE
>>334405947
The first ME bombed. Where are all of these fans coming from?
>>334405947
Mirror's Edge is the last game I wanted to see go open world. What a shame.
I don't much care for open worlds but I'll concede that a parkour simulator is one of the very few instances where I'd be fine with it. As such, an open world ME does not sound bad to me...at least, on paper anyways.
>>334416850
Its a good idea, but gaming more than anything else can take a good idea and 100% fuck it up
so mirrors edge will probably have the "climb to a high point to reveal a bunch of useless collectibles", and that will be the entire open world, like so many others
>>334416614
It really didn't.
>>334416614
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror's_Edge
>In June 2013, the executive vice president of the EA Games revealed the game has sold "about 2.5 million units".[85]
Not really a bomb, just a slow burner. I also recall DICE saying they were waiting for new hardware to make a bigger, better sequel, hence why it's almost taken a decade.
>>334417095
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Catalyst's approach to an open world will be flawed in some ways. I'll be damn surprised if they make an open world parkour game that just works but whatever, a man can dream.
>>334417156
>>334417105
If it didn't get a sequel within the next 3 years from EA it was a flop.
Army of Two got one every two years.
>>334417156
I problem with Mirror's Edge is that a ton of people (including myself) returned it within a day or two because it was only 7 hours long. There were dozens of used copies at my local eb games within a week.
