When people say 3 is easier than 1, are they just trolling?
I've died fewer times in 3 but only because I got a lot of practice from 1.
Almost every boss in 3 so far has been harder than most bosses in 1, because bosses in 3 are faster (harder to read), have longer combos, hit harder, and overleveling your weapon is more difficult because each tier of titanite isn't available until certain late-game areas are cleared.
I'm not even saying 3 is an objectively hard game. It's just harder than 1 but people's experience/skill with the previous games is clouding their judgement.
pls respond
>>334397997
For people who've played previous games, of course it's going to be easier for them than new players. But it also has been streamlined for convenience, you can no longer lose your maximum health through dying or getting cursed as an example.
I only died trying to jump to random shit.
>>334395994
I agree, Dark Souls 1 is an easier game than Dark Souls 3.
>>334398302
those things never mattered anyway because you could buy curse cure things. i never even got cursed in 1 until subsequent playthroughs.
It's definitely harder than Dark Souls. I replayed DaS1 before DaS3 and most bosses were easy as fuck compared to the hyper-active bosses in DaS3.
All the way until Pontiff, I felt that 3 was much easier than 1. Even though I've finished every other souls game, I felt like I was speeding through the areas much faster than DaS1, regardless of experience and skill. Now that Pontiff has given me a run for my money, I thing DaS 3 is equal in difficulty to 1.
>>334395994
Yeah, I'm just really good at Dark Souls now. If I saw something like those black snake monsters explode out of hollows in DS1 I would have run back to the bonefire to rethink things. Now I run straight for it and slash away.
>>334399346
Even tougher bosses come. Pontiff is slightly harder than Ornstein and Smough. Later a few bosses will come on par wtih Pontiff. The game is harder in places where it matters. But it spends less time forcing you to back track and figure out keys to doors.
yeah, the last half of the boss list is easily as difficult or harder than the hardest bosses in das1, like sif. i don't disagree.
that doesn't mean i didn't breeze through the game though. i beat almost every boss in das3 on my first try or within two or three tries. even nameless king, even the twin princes, even champion gundyr, who i would say is the hardest boss in the game, i beat in three tries.
in das1 i died at least 30 times to sif the first time i fought her. from this perspective, das1 was more difficult than das3 is. you say that the bosses are harder in das3, and you're right, but that doesn't invalidate the truth that most people will think das1 is still harder because it was their first experience with the series. of course experience will cloud my judgement, but that just means that miyazaki and co have to take that into consideration when developing the game.
"how can we make this sufficiently difficult for experienced players?" should be at the front of his mind. he did a decent job with some bosses, like champ gundyr, who have attacks that catch inaccurate rolling and punishes players who stay on his back with his kick. however, there wasn't enough of that for me to think the game was difficult.
let me just finish this post saying that i don't think the game being easy for me personally makes it bad. i can look at the design for most of the bosses in the game- aesthetically, mechanically- and say that they're pretty much objectively better than a vast majority of das1 and 2 bosses. however, that doesn't change the fact i breezed through it.
and breezing through it is okay. all breezing through it serves to do is give me my own satisfaction of having gotten gud. a previously insurmountable obstacle is now child's play. that's what learning is all about.
>>334399606
I've heard that. While DaS 1 connected world was essentially a tall tube, which made it "cozy" and close, DaS 3 spreads much further horizontally. Also, Your point in a sense, proves mine though. O&S took me a good thirty tries, while Pontiff took me 4. I don't claim to be some fantastic gamer, but the bosses up to this point have been much more predictable IMO. They're still fun as hell, I fucking loved the abyss wankers, and I'm excited for more difficult bosses.
>>334399795
>you say that the bosses are harder in das3, and you're right, but that doesn't invalidate the truth that most people will think das1 is still harder because it was their first experience with the series. of course experience will cloud my judgement
In the OP I explicitly state that 3 is easier than 1 for me as well because of my experience. Not sure what you're going on about.
>>334395994
I can confirm based on the little I played that it's roughly the same. When I went back and played DS1 it was much easier than the first time and not because I memorized everything. Another example is that when I first played Demon's Souls I could never beat it but I went back and played it after playing the other Souls games and beat it pretty easily. Most people are just much better at Souls games now.
>>334399606
Pontiff is much harder than O&S. I died to O&S like 20 times and Pontiff only 5, but that's because I'm good at dodging and rolling now.
>>334401074
>When people say 3 is easier than 1, are they just trolling?
i suppose i was more responding to this than the rest of your post. people aren't trolling when they say this. they're just sharing their personal experience with das3.
das3 IS harder than souls 1, but being able to acknowledge most bosses as being more mechanically difficult than most das1 bosses DOES NOT take away their personal experience. the game could be objectively harder but on a subjective level based on my experience of the series its easier. i hope this makes sense, i'm not sure if i'm explaining it adequately. there's two ways we can view difficulty- how much trouble i personally had with the game, or how much more complex each fight is in itself. both views are valid, i think.
basically, i'm telling you not to immediately dismiss claims the game is easier. because it is easier for some players despite the boss mechanics being more involved, myself being one of those players. it's both easier and harder at the same time.
>>334401460
>they're just sharing their personal experience with das3.
Which I also address and assert that they experience the game as being easier because they've developed skills in previous games.
I still don't get your point.
>>334395994
All your reasons for why dark souls 3 is harder apply to bloodborne as well but that shit was easy. People say it's easier because it isn't their first souls game. I still think demons souls is the hardest but that is most likely because it was my first.
>>334395994
O & S are harder than anything in DS3.
>>334401671
I could go beat O&S my first try right now yet lose to the tutorial boss in 3 once or twice.
>>334401574
the subjective experience of players who found the game easier because of their experience playing the series is still valid despite the fact that a boss like pontiff sullyvahn or champion gundyr is objectively more difficult than anything in das1. you can't take away the truth that certain players had an easier time playing das3 than they did das1, and thus the game was easier for them than das1.
>>334401671
Nah, Lothric siblings definetly harder than O&S
>>334401729
And how many times have you beat O&S already?
>>334401807
>is still valid
>you can't take away the truth that certain players had an easier time playing das3 than they did das1, and thus the game was easier for them than das1
I acknowledge that 3 is easier than 1 if you developed skills in previous games. I acknowledge this in my OP. Again I don't see why you're posting this.
I thought Vordt will be hard.
Then I saw how much damage I deal to him.
And how you can completely outplay him by going under his belly.
Phase 2 was pretty cool tho and music was completely ebin(in positive sense)
>>334401865
3 or 4 times. I beat the tut boss of 3 twice. O&S are generally slower, much easier to read, and you can do more DPS to them.
Couldn't find a dark souls 3 tips thread.
Is there a ring like in the first game where you can walk through waist high water at normal speed? Currently I'm in the catacombs, just defeated mega pimp skellington.
I want to get back exploring the swamp of despair because I'm fairly certain I missed some stuff. However I don't feel like spending 20 minutes slogging around trough water only to get roflstomped by some wooden t-rex fucker.
>>334402227
not that i know of but if you two hand twin daggers you get a dash ability that ignore water gravity
>>334401906
i agree with your statement in the OP that the game is objectively more difficult than 1 from a mechanical perspective. where i differ from you is that you seem to want to discard anyone who says 3 is easier than 1 as a troll, or their opinion is illegitimate because they're not acknowledging the objectively more difficult mechanics involved in the bosses. i simply disagree with this. it's still totally fair for people to say das3 is easier than 1 if they had more trouble with 1 than 3. because not everyone is going to think about mechanics, and to be honest they shouldn't have to to make statements like these. they should be fine using their personal experience/death counts as a metric for whether the game is more difficult.
say that from releases statistics on how many times players died to pontiff sullyvahn on average, and the average amount of deaths dying to sully is lower than it was for o&s. does that not end up meaning that pontiff sullyvahn was less difficult on average than o&s was? we can view each boss in the abstract examining their moveset and timing and such separately from any player interaction but all of that doesn't matter if a majority of players had an easier time with him than o&s.
It's definitely harder than 1 and I think it's harder than 2 as well. Its fun but gets a little tiresome at times having to either fight everything or attempt to run past to get to bosses that have too much health.
>>334402421
>where i differ from you is that you seem to want to discard anyone who says 3 is easier than 1 as a troll
It's completely obvious what my point is but you're still struggling. I want to put their experience in context and say that 3 was easier than 1 for them because of skills developed in 1/2.
>>334402654
There are more than 3 souls games.
I was having a lot of trouble with pontiff while using the farron great sword, until I realized I have a shield for the second phase. Spin to win deals damage while slipping under a lot of his first phase attacks, and I got good at parrying him. The high parry damage and the way the phantom telegraphs his attacks in phase 2 made me think we was supposed to be parried, but just switching to my shield made phase 2 much easier because he's less aggressive. Don't know how well tanking phase 1 would go with how wide and fast his attacks are.
>>334402383
Alright, I guess I'll skip bubbglegoop swamp for now then, and come back when I'm a bit higher leveled and have some daggers.
>>334402757
And? Before you say something dumb, think clearly about what is being said and what specific situation is being addressed.
>>334402817
The daggers are right before the swamp tho
>>334402654
right, and then you want to remove that context regarding experience because you want to view the game from an objective point of view, from a mechanical point of view. games are made to be played though, and we should judge games from the perspective of players of differing skill levels and tastes. what you're saying is true, the game is easier because of my experience with the series, but my statement of "i had less trouble playing the game than i did das1" is also true, objectively. the game is also more mechanically difficult, objectively. both statements are true. you can accept both as truth. it's not a contradiction. it can't be a contradiction, because both statements are true.
Alright pcuck/souls noob, let me explain to you how pre 1.04 or ptd edition was
First, the anor londo archers. You know how people love to meme about them? Most people didn't play when they were actually hard. The archer on the left was moved so that he couldn't attack you while you tried to kill they guy on the right, this makes the area 1000x easier
Next, lost izalith. As you know, you can just run passed them to the next area. This wasn't the case day 1, they were in your way and would fuck your shit up hard.
Next, item drops. The drop rates were all increased, so you can have a shit ton of humanity at all times as well as other items. Speaking of humanity....
Humanity was spread everywhere, you will never run out even if you don't actively farm for them.
Dark Magic makes the game a massive joke.
Then there was minor stuff that made the game easier. You could buy twinkling titanite, the skeletons now give souls, curse was nerfed heavily, etc
>>334403147
>is also true, objectively. the game is also more mechanically difficult, objectively. both statements are true. you can accept both as truth. it's not a contradiction. it can't be a contradiction, because both statements are true.
Jesus fucking Christ you are dense. I never denied this. This is like the 5th useless response you've made.
>>334403292
i don't see much point to this thread, then. it seemed like you made it to call out people on saying that das3 is easier than 1 is really just reflective of their level of experience, but everyone knows that already.
>It's just harder than 1 but people's experience/skill with the previous games is clouding their judgement.
this statement in the OP gave me the impression that you preferred the mechanical way of looking at the game as more valid or more important than the personal experience of players. i see now that's not the case, because you've repeatedly told me you agree. if you agree, there's not much discussion to be had here, then.
>>334403070
Found them in my inventory.
Looks like I'm 6 dexterity short.
>>334403254
>not mentioning the much smaller soul count for each kill
>not mentioning that Dragon Asses both aggro'd from far away and respawned
>>334403768
>because you've repeatedly told me you agree
because you've repeatedly told me you agree with my point of view, which was really your own all along*
i suppose this is also obvious, but when someone says "das3 is easier than das1", the obvious implicit missing part of that statement is "because i have a lot of experience with the mechanics of this franchise." anyone with any sense can see that das3 has enemies who are more difficult than the previous games in the series, but they only care about their subjective experience, because it's the only reference they have to judge the game.
>>334404051
Ya those go in the minor changes, also how you used to not be able to lock onto fog enemies
>>334404140
The Fog Ring and Wood Grain Ring changes were hardly minor changes, at least in terms of PvP.
>>334395994
>tfw "regular" enemies give me more trouble than bosses
Just beat Aldrich on my third attempt. Pontiff was same. But seriously, fuck those silver knights. And pretty much any knights in this game. Especially those silver ones almost one shot me with their lightning attacks, if I'm unfortunate and get hit.
>>334395994
I can't beat Vordt because he is way too fast for my reflexes in the second phase. It doesn't help that there seems to be pretty significant input lag when playing with KB+mouse, especially when pressing spacebar, it takes like 10 frames before the character starts to roll.
Also the damn camera gets stuck inside him sometimes and then I'm dead because I can't see what is he doing and what am I doing.
Didn't have any problems with Dark Souls 1 bosses, well maybe bed of chaos, but others were doable even for a scrub like me.
>>334404341
fight them one on one. And also abuse their stun locks and open backs. The regular mobs are a breeze compared to bosses.
>>334395994
If you played Bloodborne then you know what to expect with the enemies and bosses. Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2 are slow as fuck.
DS3 is definitely harder, especially in terms of the normal enemies and minibosses, but souls vets will still find it easier than the first souls they played.
In terms of the bosses, I would personally say they are probably slightly harder, and definitely more complex, but I don't equate difficulty with quality necessarily, deacons of the deep is probably my third or fourth favourite boss in the game for atmosphere and music alone, along with the crowd around the archdeacon mechanics, and while Kalameet may now be very easy to me, I still think his design is excellent and gives the same brutal imagery of when I first saw him.
People say this? The game is harder by about a factor of ten. The only argument against that is oreos and smores, and I honestly think the nameless king and the last boss are harder than them.
>>334404441
Summon the katana guy and let Vordt concentrate on him, you can get to his second form easily without taking any damage
>>334403254
I wish my friends who only played pc version got to experience Lost Izalith, and when Iron Flesh was full on Robocop mode.
>>334399346
You're speeding through areas because bonfires are much closer together. Basically up until you get to the Dungeon, bonfires are plentiful.
>>334405062
>Summon
>playing Souls on easy mode
>>334405273
I finished dungeon before the main bulk of irithyll. I'd say there definitely are closer bonfires, but the maps are of fairly similar size.
>>334405473
Similar size to DaS 1**
I've soloed the game from the beginning and last boss I beat was Aldrich. But I'm using that dragon crest shield. Am I still casual shitter, since I use shield?
>>334395994
They give you the best sword in the game during the tutorial stage.
>>334395994
I think it's harder in some regards, like shields and magic being nerfed hard, but easier in the general sense of "I already played DS, I know I need to take it slow and cautious"
>>334395994
It feels easier than all of them
But that's from beating Demon Souls, DS1 and 2, and Bloodbourne.
Just experience I guess
>>334405062
I didn't want to summon anyone because I know it's easy when the boss concentrates on one person (I've been summoned to fight against him) but I can't beat him alone because he is so damn fast.
I'm so bad at this game. Please send help.
>>334405638
Uchigatana? I'm still using it 20 hours in.
>>334403768
>but everyone knows that already.
Except everyone is talking about the difficulty of 1 and 3 without context, ie. without stating their prior experiences with the series.
>that you preferred the mechanical way of looking at the game as more valid or more important than the personal experience of players.
Players who have played previous games experience DaS3's mechanics too. That's another problem with your posts. You phrase things like a retard.
>Check you the Astora Greatsword
>Great moveset and not too heavy
>Scales better with dex instead of strength
Why From why
>>334403924
welp up to you.
>>334405473
Right, this is why progress feels so quick and the game feels linear. It really isn't, it's just that these are all statements relative to bonfire/archstone/lamp locations.
The start of Irithryll is bonfire, bridge with one enemy, bonfire. The very start of the game is similar. there are two bonfires practically across ramparts from each other at the High Wall of Lothric, you only have to engage about four low level mooks.
This is why I think that if this was my first Souls game, I could easily have seen it being the hardest in the series. That one enemy on the Irithryll bridge would've been a bastard had I not played DeS/BB/DaS/DaS2, and that bonfire would felt immensely rewarding rather than kind of shockingly close.
Meanwhile in Dark Souls, getting to the first bonfire in Blighttown was a huge relief even though most of the enemies that you fought were comparatively weak past the one filth-covered barbarian fatass right at the beginning.
The game felt extremely uneven in difficulty for me until I realized all that. Bosses just annoy me at this point, sick of bosses that are just one nig + mooks, which have been the majority of bosses so far.
>>334399795
>dying to sif
how? all you do hug him and you win
>>334404102
>the obvious implicit missing part of that statement is "because i have a lot of experience with the mechanics of this franchise."
No that's not obvious. It makes almost no sense to even say because if have previous experience with the series, the new one is always going to be easier because the devs have to make the game in such a way it's still accessible to newbies.
>>334395994
I've played all the souls games before this one so it probably helps, but 3 is still really easy
The only challenging part were those 2 dogs below Anor Londo
>>334395994
Miyasaki actually commented on this exactly saying "I can no longer play Dark Souls games" because he got 2 gud and basically couldn't tell if the games he was making were difficult enough or too difficult.
I wouldn't say it is any easier than the others, its more that once you have played one and are used to the formula of walk forward and right to dodge, it becomes easy.
>red eye orb
it begins
>>334406954
>Shield
>Miracle
>White soapstone
2/10 Dickwraith
>>334406383
welcome to the club
>>334407137
true, was just helping a friend coop though,
we shadow of the colossus now
>>334406383
>didn't just punt that faggot off the edge
Deserved what you got.
When you invade someone why do so many people just full on chase you non stop?
I just kite them to like 2 swarms of strong enemies and tag team them all
Fuckin' idiots
>>334401821
>lothric
>roll behind and press light attack
>repeat until big brother is dead then slay little brother
unless you're doing NO damage i can't see how lothric brothers were hard
>>334406297
>Except everyone is talking about the difficulty of 1 and 3 without context, ie. without stating their prior experiences with the series.
well, there's the fact that anyone who doesn't have prior experience with any concept/challenge at all is going to find it more difficult.
if someone starts playing souls and doesn't have as much of a hard time, it implies some familiarity with the action game genre. people who have never played video games before are not going to be good at dark souls. if someone's having trouble with dark souls 3 now, it's because they don't have enough experience with the series and its mechanics. the same can be said for any subject. not being good at math means you haven't spent enough time bashing your head against it till you get it. a person's experience with anything is implied by how they respond to its difficulty.
>Players who have played previous games experience DaS3's mechanics too. That's another problem with your posts. You phrase things like a retard.
they do, but the mechanics are not significantly different enough for the experience of seasoned souls players to not matter. dark souls 3 is effectively the same game as das1 and 2 in terms of basic combat mechanics. that's why the same strategies (roll through strikes, hit, repeat) work. i can play the same way against every boss in the series and win every time, with the exception of gimmick fights like bed of chaos, which everyone hates for precisely that reason.
and yeah, i'm aware. my way of phrasing is rather strange, sometimes. it's why i asked earlier if i was making sense in one of my posts. frequently people have trouble understanding me, so i try to reexplain myself very often until i'm comprehensible. i apologize for any misunderstanding.
>>334406505
>the new one is always going to be easier because the devs have to make the game in such a way it's still accessible to newbies.
this strikes me as an odd point, because the souls series has never been accessible. the series prides itself on being difficult. it has its popularity precisely because it's a hard game, because it's challenging relative to the average game. the game does not have to be accessible to new players. in fact, new players are expecting to get their ass kicked. what miyazaki should do in future souls games IF he has an interest in making the game difficult for a majority of players is have some easier fodder bosses frontloaded (to provide teaching for new players on the basics) but focus on making late game bosses behave in a manner that requires a different, non-gimmicky strategy to defeat. in some way, these bosses should not be able to be easily defeated by rolling in and striking as per other bosses.
of course, miyazaki and from are probably not interested in providing a completely satisfying challenge for all players. it's pretty difficult to do that, so it's probably not a reasonable goal.
>>334395994
Straight swords / Rapiers are easy mode. Average speed and slow weapons are hard mode.
Cuckasters are easy mode.
>>334395994
This cunt was by far the easiest boss in the entire souls series, and he was meant to be one of the big bad lords of cinder
why the fuck would they put the sword of giant raping in the fucking boss room? Why not hide it somewhere else in the world? And to top it off they put a fucking dev message next to the sword telling you to use it against him
gg fromsoft way to casualise the fuck out of what could have been an interesting boss
>>334410947
Same thing was in DeS.
This game does feel a hell of a lot easier than the previous games but that could be because we have all just played so much of the souls games we have gotten gud
Except for the berserk wolf on the bridge fuck that guy
>>334411117
but why do they put the sword in the boss room? with a dev message saying to use it? couldn't they have had a sidequest line or some shit to go find the sword?
>>334411482
Because it's supposed to be cool, not hard.
>>334411554
that's pretty gay
Jesus that alligator dog demon is kicking my ass
>>334395994
The hardest part about DaS3 is fucking invading right now. The ganks aren't getting to me since I expect it and can play dirty to win. It's the fucking disconnects.
>have had lots of hosts d/c right when I chew through their phantom helpers
>have a guy disconnect when I beat his two fucking phantoms and run for him
>tracked down one guy's PSN ID just to send hatemail only to find he's some try-hard streamer
Fuck these pussies.
The hardest part about Dark Souls 3 is my dick when I'm playing.
Anyone has Morion Blade? Is it any good?
