Will a Project U ever come along to save this game?
I hope so.
>>334315124
Yeah, down throw to up-tilt, up-tilt and up-tilt isn't fun.
There is already moveset swapping so it's only a matter of time.Longchu/Pikaman/Pikadorf is back
WiiU emulator is progressing, I guess someone will mod something with it.
>>334314976
Smash 4 really isn't as hated as you think it is.
>>334316761
I don't care if anyone else hates it. I fucking hate it.
No.
There's no need to turn every Smash game into a Melee game. If people keep doing this, the future Smash games will suffer the "NSMB" disease: once you have played one, you played all of them. Not only that, the fanbase will be more even more divided, and the hypocrisy will be even more bigger than before.
The ONLY TWO THINGS Smash 4 needs from Melee, is having momentum, and limit the airdodges. That's it. Everything else is fine.
>>334316836
well you're a minority, an extremely small one
>>334316836
I don't care if you hate it, I think the ledge mechanics are better than melee. Now go sit in the corner
>>334314976
Hey, OP. Beside being the well-known faggot you are, you should also know that people genuinely like Super Smash Brothers 4 Wii U/3DS. It has a variety of characters that are extremely well-balanced for every character; even in the extremely competitive environments of fighting games, this game has champions that use many alternate characters. While its single-player modes aren't favored, they are unique and have a multitude of mini-games to play or challenge yourself with. Its online matchmaking is tolerable and quick. It has more customization than any other Smash game before it and continues to polish the already outstanding features that bring people to play Smash in the first place.
It does not need "saving."
When a new generation of technology makes this version of Super Smash Brothers antiquated, there will be a 5th. Until such time, this is likely the best iteration yet.
>>334317435
>There's no need to turn every Smash game into a Melee game.
Fucking this.
So how would you guys adapt one of the smash4 newcomers into a project melee game? I'll start
Greninja- a mix between melee sheik where you juggle with quick low percent tilts and then confirm into juicy forawrd air or upsmash kills and pm squirtle where you have a really long wave dash and low traction, elusive and slippery movement. Being able to jump out of shadowsneak for mix ups and combo extensions.
>>334314976
>not project B
What are Japan's thoughts about the West's Melee boner? They have to find it weird that American/Euros still play a 15-year old game at their biggest tournament, right?
>>334317435
>>334317892
But Melee is objectively the better game, why shouldn't we have a modern melee?
>>334318249
Some people enjoy eating shit and you should respect that, or something.
>>334318048
I'd find it even weirder that people care what Japan thinks about Melee when there's maybe four good chink players for the game.
>>334318249
Because you can just play Melee instead ruining others Smash games.
>>334318480
Nice analogy.
people here don't want a second Melee, but im not sure how they could push this series forward more mechanically.
>EX moves? (hitting A in addition to B when your meter is full)
>Supers? (ie power atune to Finishing Touch, KO Punch, Wario Waft, nothing like the strength of a Final Smash as a cinematic screen-clear going off every 30 seconds would ruin the game)
>grab teching
>dropping through a platform as a forth "get-up" option when knocked down
i like the result of wavedashing and what it adds to the game, but not needing to fuck your controller sideways to do it
>>334318590
But Melee is old as fuck and could have more characters.
Also
>ruin
ROLLSPAM ROLLSPAM ROLLSPAM ROLLSPAM ROLLSPAM ROLLSPAM ROLLSPAM ROLLSPAM ROLLSPAM
>>334318937
>they could push this series forward more mechanically.
I think you're forgetting the fact Smash is meant to be a casual and easy to play game, not a competitive game. None of the Smash games tries to push more mechanically, except Melee. And even in Melee, it was "accidental".
>>334319007
>could have more characters.
I don't think you care for this. You would still only main Fox or Falco, because they are the best and requires more skill than any other Smash character.
>>334319332
>even in Melee, it was "accidental"
I'm tired of this meme being spouted over and over by people who think they know something
Sm4sh- when
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2PKFVOGHL8
>>334319669
If you think Melee was meant to be a competitive game, then explain to me why does it has items, hazards stages, differents modes to spicy matches, 4-player mode, and mini-games.
>>334319615
That's the point though, having a balanced Melee game would be great.
>>334320061
>competitive games can't have fun stuff in them
It's a fucking fighting game, it's inherently competitive, it also lets casuals play the way casuals want to if they really feel like it
>>334320323
>having a balanced Melee game would be great.
>>334320476
I think Smash feels more like a casual party game, with some fighting elements, that is meant to be casual, but can be also played as a fighting game.
>>334320506
Yeah but no one fucking plays it. If you want to play it with me, lets fucking go.
>>334317830
Fuck off shill
>>334317645
Guess what? I never said I disliked the new ledge mechanics. I like them. Not only that, but I never mentioned what I dislike about 4.
>>334321010
I mean you can have that opinion, nobody can stop you
Brave man
>>334317830
18+
>>334318583
Japan's lack of caring about Melee is what ensures that the next Smash game, if any, is not going to go back to Melee's mechanics.
Nintendo views Melee diehards as a tiny but disproportionately vocal minority of the Western Smash fandom, and correctly so.
>>334314976
I don't understand why this game is so boring. I get hyped up picking from all the characters only to be bored to death once the actual game starts. Something about the gameplay makes it feel stale and repetitive
I'd be excited for it
>>334317435
>Change ledges (doesn't have to be exactly like Melee)
>Generally decrease landing lag
>Generally decrease ending lag
>Generally decrease hit lag
>Change DI (doesn't have to be exactly like Melee)
>Make consecutive grabs increase in knock back instead of blocking them altogether
>Add offensive burst movement
We're looking good.
>>334322145
increase hitstun, just a bit please
>playing FG
>Sonic shows up
>I'm Robin, the slowest character in the game
>Naturally I get juggled all over the place, but he can't seem to kill me
>runs to try and gimp me off stage
>get a random elwind spike that I didn't even plan
>timetotipthescales.taunt
>hits me off stage again
>does a falling bair trying to get me as I recover
>dumb fucker fastfalls for no reason to his death
>forget to save video because I just wanted to get the hell out of that lobby and away from Sonic
>>334322307
sonic players in a nutshell
>>334317435
Everything else is not fine. Either it has to be like Brawl where either landing lag is low or everything has reasonable auto-cancel windows or L canceling needs to return. What's the point in aerial combat if you're stuck in 20 frames of landing lag for trying to use them? SHFFL was a great approach option.
Dash dancing and wavedashing needs to come back. Dash dancing allows for more movement and better mix ups. Wavedashing allows for more movement and also microspacing.
I don't know why the fuck people want movement limited when movement is one of the best and most fun things of Smash.
>>334322293
hitstun isn't the problem. Smash 4 has the same hitstun as melee and brawl. The problem is the average frame data, particularly recovery frames, is the worst in the series and the base knock back on most moves is absurd. There's no way an f-tilt should send you flying halfway across the stage at 10%
It doesn't need saving it could use some tweaks to make things a little faster less safe and such but it's a fine game otherwise of you want Melee go play Melee
>I want to play Melee
Then play Melee
>I want to play Melee with better balancing
SD Remix exists
>I want to play Melee with more characters
PM is also a thing
We don't need 4 Melees
>>334322714
Smash 64 has best hitstun
>>334317435
>If people keep doing this, the future Smash games will suffer the "NSMB" disease: once you have played one, you played all of them.
We already have the NSMB disease though, Sm4sh is far more similar to Brawl than either is to Melee or 64 and if Sakurai stays at the helm this is what we're stuck with.
>>334317830
>extremely well-balanced for every character
kek
>extremely competitive environments of fighting
Extremely competitive environments are impossible for Smash 4. You might as well try to have extremely competitive chutes and ladders.
Smash 4 is a party game and nothing more.
>>334322794
What if I want to play Melee with Little Mac. What are my options?!?
>>334322714
name some characters that have f-tilts that "send you flying halfway across the stage at 10%"
>>334322794
I want to play melee with even more characters
>>334322987
Play Falcon and mash down-b anytime you're offstage
>>334323087
Brawl Vault + PM
>>334323124
kek
The reason I kinda want there to be a PM for Smash 4 is because even though the character roster for the game is great, I can't help but feel they shit the bed with a lot of characters' movesets
>falco gutted
>palutena's boring default moveset
>captain ganondorf
>wario having even less to do with warioland
>rosalina and luma being completely retarded
>duck hunt's smash attacks not working properly
>>334323124
Not manlet enough, but thanks for trying.
>>334323087
>Any characters mattering in Melee when Fox wins every major that Jigglypuff isn't at
>>334323464
Melee's shit, my man. It's a really good proof of concept for an alternative fighting game genre, though.
>>334322014
The game's incredibly shallow that everyone plays the same.
What if, we removed any and all landing lag
From airdodges to jiggs rest.
As soon as you touch the ground you're back into neutral
Additionally split equipment and custom moves yadda yadda
>>334323705
If the game was "incredibly shallow" there wouldn't be one guy winning 90% of all tournaments
>>334323570
But that wouldn't be Melee. Project M is nothing like Melee, Smash 4 Melee mode wouldn't be the same
>>334323747
Removing landing lag from air dodges would make the game more defensive. I can't tell if you're shitposting.
What do you mean by split equipment and custom moves?
East coast canadian looking to play Melee.
4be7edfb
>Pichu Bros
>Deoxys
It all still hurts.
>>334323464
>Fox is an autowin vs Jiggs
Get a load of this nerd
>>334323747
Then the game would be unbalanced. Landing lag is already low in this game what needs to change is moves getting auto cancel frames added. Remove all landing lag and fast characters dominate even harder than they already do
>>334323880
>scarflard can cheese out most tournaments so the game has depth
>>334324008
Can you read? Fox is a autowin in general, only when HBox (The only relevant Puff) is present is it otherwise
Please tell me how many majors in the last 2 years were won by someone other than Fox/Hbox
>>334324189
Peach.
>>334324087
Yeah he "cheesed out" 57 tournament wins in a row.
>>334322696
And that would make it another Melee game, which is exactly my point. If you want to play Melee, then go play Melee.
>>334324189
apex last year
>>334314976
It doesn't have tripping. What needs to be changed?
>>334324256
If you think that's a sign of a healthy metagame you are very confused
>>334324373
>no Ridley
>>334324280
why is it wrong to want melee 2.0, yet perfectly fine when we got brawl 2.0?
>PM never got to implement the actual crowd chants taken from several majors.
I want to die.
>>334324482
Lol no. Brawl had actual mechanical skill that was far more than the basic three hit string. Brawl had depth. Smash 4 is brawl 0.5
>>334324327
Congrats that's one out of many
PM is travesty of game design. There's a reason no one touches it nowadays.
The only people that have an issue with Smash 4 are Melee redditfags. The people who actually PLAY the game love it.
>>334324482
>4
>Brawl 2.0
Good meme
>>334323916
To allow custom moves you need to allow character loadouts, which consist of custom moves and equipment.
>Removing landing lag from air dodges would make the game more defensive
Yeah, nah, all every match boils to is to wait for that time frame in which the opponent is about to touch the ground and throw anything meaty in between, so if he dodges in the air, the dodge cancels into a recovery in the ground and eats the attack, or not dodge in the air and eat the attack anyway, if not just run under where the opponent is going to land, then shield/superarmor whatever they might throw and grab/attack while they land. I've learn to play robin just for this fucking reason, so I have any other air to ground option that isnt fakeout your landing destination, and I've gotta say, its a fairly reliable way to land nosferatu
Have you ever noticed how most, if not all top tiers have some very low landing lag options?
>>334324513
>You will never have smash 64 sfx back
>>334322862
>Sm4sh is far more similar to Brawl
Pivot, different edge mechanics, no random trippings, different grab system, and medium speed are what makes the game different. Also, patches.
>Smash 4 is a party game and nothing more.
And so is any other Smash game. Your point?
>>334324413
>not playing purple Charizard now that he's been buffed
>>334324643
cool argument
>>334324902
>And so is any other Smash game. Your point?
PM says hello.
>>334324482
Where did I said that?
Also,
>4
>Brawl 2.0
Stop.
>>334324997
It's a mod
>>334324997
Brawl's mod, and not official.
>>334325047
Still a smash game with at least 1Mil. Downloads.
It's nice that your ignoring that Sm4sh keeps getting better with all the patches and recently discovered tech you can't do on the GC controller
Stay mad and jealous fucker
Project M fans are literally the type of people subbed to r/4chan, who post Pepe images on Facebook, who like things "ironically nonironically", who watch Filthy Frank, are high school freshmen, etc
What I'm saying is PM is a meme mod that top Melee and Brawl players humored for a while before realizing it was str8 garbagio.
>>334325090
>tech that can't be done with a GC controller
Such as? I'm curious
>>334314976
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C48RngtqwwI
ITS ALREADY HERE.
WE MELEEEEEE
>>334325087
Look at active players, not downloads. That's like saying "See! Look how many people downloaded Windows 10! They love it!"
>>334325197
>>334325090
>i need to switch joysticks to have mechanics
Absolute tr4sh
>>334325294
>>334325090
>Sm4sh keeps getting better with all the patches and recently discovered tech
people have been saying this shit for over a year, but I never see any cool webms or matches posted. All I ever see are the hilarious ones
>>334324981
Where am I moving goal posts? I said list how many and you posted one, which does nothing but prove my point that more character in Melee don't matter when Fox wins everything
>>334325197
>>334325294
So there is a God?
>>334325294
Can we actually get the dlc packs without paying with this? I left sm4sh since the beginning and i refuse to pay something more.
>>334325394
>>334325171
Bidou
Why do people think that having good game mechanics is just being Melee 2.0? Wouldn't that men Smash 4 is Brawl 2.0? I know Sm4sh players would chew my head off if I said that irl so I don't think that's the case. Advance movement options and other tech skill increase depth and overall fun. Obviously Melee has balancing issues, no one EVER denies that, we just want an HD Smash game with some actual depth and movement options and if you're really that blind to see just dust off your old gamecube, pop in Melee, and start wave dashing around with Luigi and tell me it isn't ten times more fun than anything in Smash 4. PM was nice but it's dead as fuck now.
>>334325171
Bidou Tech
>>334325402
>even the onlookers in the background don't know what the fuck is going on
>>334325502
>>334325535
>>334325541
bidou can be done with GC easily, just switch c-stick to b-stick and Z to B.
>>334325197
>putting glitches in a game just emulate an exploit of an older game
How autistic can the community of this game get?
>>334325197
>>334325294
>bidou shit
>can't do it out of a jump
>can't do it out of shield
>can't cancel moves with it
>still no momentum carry
>still no lag cancelling of any kind
Nope, no melee in sight.
>>334315225
Nice salt feggit
>>334325610
>>334325676
18+
>>334325643
Why are you so autistically obsessed with circumventing intended game balance through shit like "lag canceling"? Just to "stick it to the man?"
>>334325402
To be honest, 9/10 sonics are fucking cancer and an annoying fight. The only way to make them worse is replacing spindash soundfile for a fucking airhorn so everybody finally realizes how annoying that shit is
>>334325718
>>334325643
>he doesnt know about frame canceling
we 64 now.
There was this one joke article on P4RGaming I think. It went on to describe Project M becoming more and more like Melee by downgrading the graphics, changing the menu and music to Melee, and changing the roster to Melee only.
Later on it featured a fake interview with Sakurai who said something along the lines of
>People do know the Wii is backwards compatible, right? They can pick up a copy of Melee for $50
Why would you want every installment of a game to be exactly the same? Just stick to your favorite one instead of trying to poison everyone else's experience with newer titles. That's what everybody else who plays any other fighting game franchise does besides smashfags.
>>334324902
>Pivot, different edge mechanics
Valid
>no random trippings
Doesn't really change the gameplay, just changes whether or not you'll get fucked over at random
>different grab system
The changes to regrabs hardly change the gameplay beyond fixing broken chaingrabs
>medium speed
Smash 4 is hardly faster than Brawl, if not outright slower.
Meanwhile Melee vs Smash 4/Brawl has momentum, L-canceling, directional airdodges, wavedashing, significantly higher speed, lack of magnet ledges, crouch canceling, etc which all have dramatic effects on the way the game is played.
Most of the changes from Brawl to Smash 4 on the other hand were to fix stupid bullshit or to casualize the game even further, and while the two play somewhat differently, they both play drastically differently from Melee.
>And so is any other Smash game. Your point?
My point is Melee is a party game and a competitive fighter, unlike Smash 4.
>>334324756
I respect your theorycrafting senpai, but lagless airdodges would make walling out with aerials more viable.
>>334314976
>>334315124
>>334315225
>samefag wants more fanfic
kek
>People think tech for the sake of tech is good
That's why everyone praises crouch canceling and l-canceling, right?
>>334325539
>Why do people think that having good game mechanics is just being Melee 2.0?
People are discussing at how a Smash game can have depth and be fun without being Melee 2.0. Nobody said or think what you said.
Wouldn't that men Smash 4 is Brawl 2.0?
No. See >>334324902.
>>334323025
well he doesnt mean 10% literally but Corrins foward tilt sends considerably far at low percents compared to the rest of the cast
but yeah
>>334325860
>My point is Melee is a party game and a competitive fighter, unlike Smash 4.
But Smash 4 literally has a Mario Party board game mode, so it's got to be both.
>>334325860
That's a lot of words in defense of a party game anon.
If anything Smash 4 was the one intended for competitive play with Nintendo's patch influence.
>>334325738
All forms of Lag cancelling in melee and smash 64 were coded intentionally into the game.
There's no circumventing anything.
God forbid we were allowed to play a fun game were you can have smooth enjoyable fast gameplay filled with combos and stocks that don't take an eternity.
>>334325817
>frame cancelling
You mean Freeze frames landing overlap? Something that has existed since 64 but so minimal and useless people never bothering giving it a name until the autismal smash 4 community felt the need to name it like they do with all their "tech".
>>334325860
All multiplayer video games are competitive.
Just because you want to sit in your little corner playing an outdated relic while every other anon is enjoying Sm4sh tournaments doesn't change this fact.
>>334314976
This game is surprinsingly earning respect from the fighting game comunity, there's even that new Bidou mechanic that could potentially enhance the game.
They only need to nerf bayoneta honestly.
>>334325860
>Removal a chain grabs don't change anything up to the grab game besides DDD going to shit tier, Mother Brothers not getting shat on and overal viability to many character
>4 is slightly faster than Brawl
Did you even play Brawl are you retarded?
>>334325915
but smash 4 is brawl 2.0 and you are delusional1 if you think otherwise. It's incredibly obvious to anyone familiar with both games and most of pros say it's a better version of brawl except diehard brawlfags
>>334326042
>Just because you want to sit in your little corner playing an outdated relic while every other anon is enjoying Sm4sh tournaments doesn't change this fact.
kek, Melee still has tournament tournout that's as good if not better than tr4sh
Enjoy watching your 2 year old snorefest game die while the 15 year old Melee lives on
>>334326191
Explain why being Brawl 2.0 is inherently bad, or inherently inferior to being Melee fanfic.
>>334315225
learn how to deal with mario better then
>>334325294
>>334325394
>>334325502
>>334325610
>>334325718
Now imagine if there was actual dash dancing, and not butchered ass fox trotting or whatever the fuck it's called. Now imagine it had more movement options, imagine someone getting a moonwalk reverse knee to end a set, how satisfying and dope it would look rather than the down throw to knee tr4sh kids always get so crazy about it and explode the venue with hype?
>>334326191
Going for your logic, Smash 64 is Brawl 1.5.
>>334326002
Learn autocancels.
It's already the best Smash game yet, so it doesn't need a "Project U."
>>334325614
what in the fuck are you talking about?
>>334326384
Aw, if you want friends I'm sure the Smash 4 players will let you hang with them. No need for sour grapes :3
>>334326329
>Melee has a better turnout
Oh yeah? Just like 3rd Strike rakes in more people than Ultra 4?
If you're going to lie about shit then do it well.
>>334326191
Yeah.And Brawl is Melee 2, and Melee is Super Smash Bros 2.
>>334325968
>he doesn't know what base knockback is
wew
>>334326343
Don't tell me what to do. It's the game that sucks, not me.
>>334326384
best you can do is hope melee mode got moved to the NX for release as an update for smash 4.
until then we gonna melee it up with BIDOU
>>334326137
>Dedede doesn't have broken bullshit any more, so the core gameplay of the game is different
Gameplay =/= metagame.
Smash 4's core gameplay is very similar to Brawl's. Which characters happen to have dumb, broken movesets doesn't change that.
And let me reiterate, no, the gameplay is not exactly the same, there are a fair number of differences.
My point is, the difference between Brawl and Smash 4 is far, far wider than the difference between Melee and either of the two.
>>334326614
Not him, but Melee's turnout is usually as big or around the same size as 4's.
>>334325879
Then what if we punished spamming the same attack over and over, and slow by *1.x the startup/endlag/both of every entry on the stale move list so for glory link does something else than boomerang-arrow-roll, spammus quits being a whore, utilt utilt utilt utilt utilt quits being a true combo, and SH fair FF SH fair FF etc quits being a thing
>>334326687
Why does it need saving? It has great turnout, views, and all its top players are driven to compete and satisfied with balance. Doesn't sound like a game that needs saving to me ;)
>>334314976
I could live with Sm4sh being turned into Melee. Mechanically.
Changes like giving Fox and Falco their Melee skins and turning Brawl's FD into Melee's is fucking stupid (stuff like JetSet Sonic and Sigurd Marth is okay though)
>>334326687
>melee players trying to call bidou a glitch
le irony meme
>>334326384
>>334326687
I'm guessing Smash Bros is a touchy subject on this board?
>>334326329
If you can call a meta that's been dead for 10 years "living on" I guess.
>>334326627
And THIS is how you act like a scrub, kids.
>>334318937
>literally less mechanical skill than brawl
>how could they push this series forward more mechanically
It's clearly going to stay at the same level or maybe get easier.
Smash 4 is better than Brawl.
It's different than Melee, not better, not worse. They can't just remake Melee for eternity.
Get the fuck over it.
>>334326789
Why not have both?
Why does it need saving? It has great turnout, views, and all its top players are driven to compete and satisfied with balance. Doesn't sound like a game that needs saving to me.
>>334326543
Countering logic with shitposting, nice. And tr4sh babies wonder why no one respects your game.
Why does it need saving? It has great turnout, views, and all its top players are driven to compete and satisfied with balance. Doesn't sound like a game that needs saving to me.
>>334322794
>sd remix
>balanced
SD remix ness is easily one of the least fun things to exist in the world.
Why does it need saving? It has great turnout, views, and all its top players are driven to compete and satisfied with balance. Doesn't sound like a game that needs saving to me
Why does it need saving? It has great turnout, views, and all its top players are driven to compete and satisfied with balance. Doesn't sound like a game that needs saving to me.
>>334326841
It's gay as fuck. I've never had this problem in any other Smash game. I don't respect it. More than half the roster are scrub characters that take no skill. Low IQ characters.
>>334324482
You're retarded.
>>334325610
>requires bidou
>>334318249
Melee already exists and is perfectly fine
>Why does it need saving? It has great turnout, views, and all its top players are driven to compete and satisfied with balance. Doesn't sound like a game that needs saving to me.
Why does it need saving? It has great turnout, views, and all its top players are driven to compete and satisfied with balance. Doesn't sound like a game that needs saving to me!
>>334316836
>It doesn't matter what everyone else thinks, it matters what I think!
>>334326118
Corrin needs a touch as well
I'm not really against his ridiculous range, but god fucking dammit the damage shouldnt be evened, just by the virtue of its reach, tippers shouldnt have that much fucking strength.
And the chainsaw/whatever while charging fsmash is outright retarded
>>334326614
Genesis 3 had 1,828 entrants for Melee and 1,096 for Sm4sh
Big House 5 had 1,317 for Melee and 512 for Sm4sh
Tournament's closer to launch had much better turnout for Sm4sh, but the numbers are already dropping and Melee is back on top.
Enjoy watching those numbers dwindle away to nothing while Melee never dies
>>334327059
>I've never had this problem in any other Smash game. I don't respect it.
Mario's infinite up-tilt has always been there since Melee, though.
>>334327169
That's the truth. The people who beat me don't actually beat me. The game beats me. And I don't really lose, it's the game community that loses.
>>334327164
Larry Lurr is literally the only good thing about Tr4sh desu, whenever I see his name I usually stick around. Watching him ass rape Esam with DK was so fucking satisfying.
>>334327298
And CEO and EVO will have higher entrants for Smash 4. And Smash 4 gets higher entrants for locals and regionals. That should balance it out.
Just accept that we can have 2 successful Smash games, anon.
>>334327059
>I've never had this problem in any other Smash game
Maybe it's the only one you've played online? Do you remember in Melee where Peaches d-smash did 50%, Sheik/Marth/Fox could just grab you to death, Falco used 2 moves and Ice Climbers had a OHKO? I don't think any of that takes skill.
Brawl was like this too, and 64 was a hitstun simulator. That's just the way they are.
>>334326921
Because this isn't Melee, and it furthers the conception that every Smash game needs to be Melee to be good (It doesn't. Melee is good, but it's not the only way to be so)
>>334325539
The problem is how highly Melee is regarded. It simply isn't a good reference point for an ideal competitive game. Wavedashing and dash dancing are serviceable movement options, but they actually foster low effort baiting tactics. Smash is severely lacking in offensive mix-ups, and nothing but the introduction of new, fundamental mechanics can fix that. With that said, defence in Smash is also too simple, the biggest culprits of which are the rudimentary teching system and the brainless shield. But as proven by Brawl, making defence stronger without proportionate increases in offence is the catalyst for a dumpster fire.
Smash is not complex enough.The ring out mechanic and "improvised" combos aren't inherently inferior to traditional fighting game mechanics, but they haven't been fleshed out by Sakurai or any well meaning and ambitious fan group.
Project M initially tried to be different by fleshing out the off-stage game and shifting the cast's power away from fast-fallers, but their efforts were quickly shutdown by butthurt Melee fags that want every character to be an approximately worse version of Fox. Likewise, the folks behind Rivals of Aether have tried to shake-up the formula, but are completely misguided, choosing combo videos as a source of inspiration instead of something more substantial. I give them kudos for trying to fix Smash's ambivalent grab system, but removing grabs altogether is not the ideal choice. Airdash Online was on the right track conceptually, but they never got anywhere near off the ground. There are a few other projects simmering out there, but I'm not holding my breath.
Project U is not the answer. Smash's best hope is that Sakurai gets tired of re-releasing Brawl and tries to make a real fighting game.
>>334325197
You're wasting your fucking time.It's not Melee, therefore Meleefags will just continue to ignore and talk shit.
They will never be pleased. So just continue to play your preferred Smash game and ignore them.
>>334327468
>Sakurai gets tired of re-releasing Brawl and tries to make a real fighting game.
FUCK OFF
THIS ISN'T WHAT SMASH IS ABOUT YOU FUCKING IDIOT
>>334327423
Melee was garbage and so is Smash 4. Maybe even Brawl, too. The problem is I don't like losing and yet it happens sometimes. Something like that isn't my fault, it's the fault of the games design. It should be fixed.
>>334327676
>>334326786
>doesn't tech
>>334326339
>defending a game that literally implemented tripping because the game designer was butthurt people were enjoying it in the wrong way
>>334326786
I would be more inclined to get rid of airdodges altogether and replace them with some other defensive option.
I once read a post in the early Melee days saying that l-cancelling should be more powerful than it already is, but it should be put on a meter. What you're saying is a more Smash-y version of that, so I sort of like it.
>>334327859
>being butthurt over a game mechanic 8 years later
I'm sure Sakurai is real mad, yeah :)
>>334327676
I know that, which is why I said Sakurai would have to pull a 180.
>>334322145
>wanting chain grabs to come back
C A N C E R
A
N
C
E
R
>>334327468
>Airdash Online ... never got anywhere near off the ground
how ironic
>>334327336
>I can't handle losing
>>334317435
I'm not sure about limit airdodged. Baiting an airdodge is too good.
>>334322145
>>Change ledges
Ledges are perfect right now, just remove the LOL MAGNET shit they have, except for heavy characters were its acceptable.
>>Generally decrease landing lag
Its lower than Melee overall, the difference is that Melee had L canceling, if you want to play with even less lag try that one custom mode with L canceling implemented.
>>Generally decrease ending lag
Alright, some characters need this.
>>Generally decrease hit lag
THIS.
Specially with shit like Bayo, I know its trying to look like ann nime or something and it gives it impact with every hit, and now that multiple hits moves actually connect constantly, they should make it a little smaller, sometimes its really too much, but still, dont completly remove it, this with footstool shit is really what makes doubles overall more interesting than the Melee ones.
>>Change DI (doesn't have to be exactly like Melee)
DI is perfect as it is.
>>Make consecutive grabs increase in knock back instead of blocking them altogether
Fuck you and chaingrabing. Maybe dont give players a full second of grab armor, but at least decrease it to two thirds of a second or something.
>>Add offensive burst movement
What do you mean?
Something that the game really needs more than almost everything you said, is balance AND more hitstun. If they add hitstun without balancing the game first, the game is going to become Melee 2.0/Brawl 2.0 in terms of balance.
Also, more vulnerability in rolls, even slower shield regeneration, and change the airdodges somehow, maybe make it so you can only use one in the air, but you dont go to free fall or anything like in Melee, and add some not-possible-to-atack frames after a it.
To be honest, I don't really care about the fighting.
I just want more nostalgia and more references to the glory days of nintendo.
Better levels, items and characters.
I'm not even a little bit interested in the competetive scene but am interested in seeing what is essentially a cannon fan fic within nintendo's franchise.
>>334322145
In brawl you could hog the ledge only while you still had invincibility. If it ran out while you were holding the other person could force you off by grabbing ledge
Make it this with a 7-8 regrab limit like in pm and I think that would be the best compromise for ledges
>>334327972
Tripping was a direct response to the competitive melee scene. Do you really think he added it for fun or something?
>>334328242
>>>Make consecutive grabs increase in knock back instead of blocking them altogether
>Fuck you and chaingrabing. Maybe dont give players a full second of grab armor, but at least decrease it to two thirds of a second or something.
I don't think you understand what I'm suggesting here. Let me be more clear. I don't want Marth on Fox Melee chain grabs, and I especially don't want Dedede Brawl chain grabs. I do think following-up a grab with another grab should be a situational option. More offensive options = good. So, after you get the first grab, the second grab would have exponentially more knock-back which would make a third grab much, much harder to land.
Good suggestions, overall.
>>334328572
he's trying to make mario kart.
But you assholes keep breaking the game and limiting the amount of people who will try it.
Mario kart is fun because ANYONE who can hold the a button and shoot an item can win.
>>334328931
>implying
It is incredibly easy to consistently win in mk especially vs shitters
>>334329093
Yeah but you don't see mass amounts of people getting together to improve on those game breaking ideas and techniques.
There is no mario kart tourney which people are paid ridiculous amounts of money to win (That I know of)
There is only one thing I would want from the next Smash game: cut off the GC controller for good.
If this Bidou thing has actually taught us something, is that people are just not willing to try new things if they don't fall within their comfort zone, you have to pay another 80 dollars to play smash (and only smash) with a GC controller, hell, Classic controllers started to release in GC formats because of smash
>>334328242
>DI is perfect as it is.
>>334329093
The same is true in Smash. However, Smash is made so there's not much difference between intermediate players. In other words, there's a wide margin of execution error that can't be capitalized on any better by someone that's played 100 hours vs someone that's played 50 hours. It's only when you get into the hundreds and thousands of hours that Smash players start showing their relative dominance.
>>334314976
>Will a Project U ever come along
Probably
>to save this game
Probably not unless there's a retard-proof method of loading it on any Wii U like there was for PM
>>334329410
Which is why that dominance needs to be capped somehow, and better then lazily throwing in a tripping mechanic.
>>334328685
>I do think following-up a grab with another grab should be a situational option.
I kinda meant that with the grab armor release thing. I play Ganondorf, and in many times after a f throw my oponent dodges and falls down with landing lag, but I still cant grab him a second after my last grab. Two grabs like that, because your oponent fucks up are completly alright, hell, if he is that retarded to do it again you should be able to keep going, you can scape with a jump after all.
>>334329404
What is wrong with the current Sm4sh DI?
>>334329394
>If this Bidou thing has actually taught us something, is that people are just not willing to try new things if they don't fall within their comfort zone
>tech monkies are this desperate
kek
>>334329803
It used to be really simple and intuitive and now it's a garbled clusterfuck?
>>334329803
It's weak as hell, and SDI might as well not exist too. Plus it's still some janky DI/vector hybrid.
>hurr but dey patched it xDD
No, it used to be only vectoring and now it's both, look it up retard
>>334329803
>What is wrong with the current Sm4sh DI?
Its shit, people only think its ok cause the devs keep nerfing the fuck out of kill confirms, which wouldn't have needed nerfing if DI wasn't ass
>>334324513
>No new crowd chants for squirt, ivy, zard, and wolf
> No updated character portraits that mesh with the alts
> No Ridley, Lyn, Isacc, Sami, Skull kid
> No & Knuckles
>>334330479
>No & Knuckles
I don't know why that was so funny
>>334330629
cuz ur dum butthole LMAO
>>334330629
When I was listing all the possible work in progress pm characters I couldn't help but slip that in
>>334329803
>What is wrong with the current Sm4sh DI?
It feels weaker overall but I don't know if that's just me, someone needs to do testing. Part of that may be a consequence of the lower knockback and gravity. Regular DI used to be completely replaced by vectoring, then a patch made it so horizontal knockback uses vectoring and vertical knockback uses traditional DI which remains true to this day. Smash DI is much weaker, especially on multi-hit moves where it's purposefully flagged to basically just not work at all.
>>334331747
Yeah it's much, much weaker. Part of the reason why combos are so cut-and-dry/guarenteed.
>>334329978
The weaker SDI at least makes multi hit moves useful for once.
Plus it's still important. It's the key to getting out of Mk's uair ladders
>>334316836
Pssshhhh nottin personnel anon but ur a faget
>>334317435
>There's no need to turn every Smash game into a Melee game.
When he's right, he's right.
>>334333005
mk got nerfed
>>334333880
Yes I know I'm specifically talking about post patch mk
>>334328242
>perfect right now.
>except for that thing that makes them totally not perfect
+1 to more vulnerability in rolls game is retarded in that regard. +1 to shield regeneration as well.
I find that dash attacks and air attacks are so unsafe in this game and when I sit back and pay attention in most fg matches, the winner isnt the one thats making the right reads or whathave you, the winner is just the one that isnt approaching. fuck this game for rewarding shitters that stand there and shield then block and then punish.
>>334335486
neutral moves can get you very far
>>334314976
But Bidou already saved it.
>>334315225
That's not even core reason why Mario is even dangerous.
Wavedashing is fine
Move-cancelling is fine
Rewarding actions (not rewarding caming) is fine
Get rid of L-cancel. There's literally no reason to keep it in the game when all it does is provide an artificial layer of difficulty. Unlike spacing options, there's no reason why you would ever purposefully miss an L-cancel.
>>334337020
bayonetta
>>334338312
That would be like saying that edgeguarding is artificial difficulty, because once the enemy is off stage there's no reason you wouldn't want him dead, so there's no reason to miss an edgeguard.
>>334339859
It's not at all the same because 1) there are different ways to edgeguard instead of one way that works best in all situations and 2) your opponent chooses how they recover which means you have to react to them in order to edgeguard successfully. L-cancelling is always the right choice 100% of the time and you react to your own attack. And yes, I know the timing is slightly different depending on whether the attack is whiffed, shielded, or perfect shielded but in general L-cancelling is just adding APM for the sake of APM.
>>334340748
Is a risk-reward mechanic, L canceling, if performed correctly, allows for combos, pressure, mix ups and aproaches that wouldn't be posible with out it, however, if an L cancel is failed, your enemy gets a few frames to punish or to dodge/escape the pressure.
Yes, L canceling is always the best choice but that's the point, rewarding high execution means that if the player does something right 100% of the time, he will get rewarded 100% of the time. The relationship with edgeguarding is that, you can't have players insta-lose their stock when they are off stage because that takes away options, it is optimal for the reciving player to come back to stage efficiantly everytime and it's optimal for the offensive player to edgeguard correctly everytime. Same with L cancels, it's optimal to do them all the time but it's also optimal to punish everytime you can.
>>334314976
>If I have to pay money for it, it's bad
fuck off
