RTS Thread
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Why did RTS games die?
Bumping again.
Come on, SOME of you niggers need to be online and wanting to discuss dead genres that have no hope for the future.
>>334238768
Because the people who played RTS games either got over games, died, or got a job.
>>334239648
If that's the case, then why are other genres still alive?
>>334239698
Because it's not team base. Shitters don't want to believe they are shit. Playing rts would mean they can only blame themselves.
>>334238768
It's too competitive and complicated. It's not fun when you make 1 misclick and you've list the match. RTS needs to go back to build and chill like in red alert 1 and Warcraft days.
>>334239801
Tons of RTS had team-based modes. In fact, games like Warcraft 3 and Rise of Nations had large playerbases that played team-based modes.
>>334238768
Age of blank was good.
After empire earth there was really no where to take the series.
WC3 was good but then WoW happened and they could never make a WC4.
Starcraft was all about who could hit keys the fastest instead strategy.
Starcrafts popularity in Korea made blizzard champion it in the west. Other RTS devs thought it was the future of rts and made clones.They were wrong.
DOTA clones caught on because "Hey it's like an RTS but I only have to control the hero".
The end. Nothing left to discuss.
>>334239924
Then because it's too slow pace compare to other games. Gamers now need things happen constantly to keep their attention, to constantly see level up, gold earn, enemy kill every minute. No one has time to watch you build a base for 5 minute.
Because the Genre peaked at SupComFA.
Its just a shame no one wants to experiment with RTS anymore, its now Mobage shite.
>>334240141
Empire Earth isn't officially part of Age of Empires.
Also, I'm just slowly hiding the fact that this is an RTS thread, not actually a thread for discussing the death of RTS games.
How's the DoW2 Elite mod? Is it worth installing?
>>334240236
>the genre peaked at SupComFA
>>334239924
Go into any team based RTS, hop into the few pugs available. One team will be full of people with 70%+ winrates. The other will be full of brand new people who picked up the game on sale.
Try and join the stacked team and you will be kicked.
That's why RTS is dead.
>>334240356
Don't know anything about it, except that I think it's unfinished.
They are too difficult and time consuming.
I bought grey goo and I played it only once for 20 minutes and quit. I'm just too used to fast paced shooters now.
Personally, Command and Conquer Generals is my favorite.
>tfw golden age of RTS (2000-2010) passed
>tfw never again huge communities of RTS players
will there be a RTSenaissance? when everyone that played RTS during the golden era retires and starts wanting to play RTS again?
>>334240316
>Empire Earth isn't officially part of Age of Empires.
Yea but it was basically all of the Age of Empire games in one + any games set in the future they could have made.
>>334240536
I donno, there seems to be a Strategy resurgance with a lot of 4x games, might happen with RTS.
Prostagma?
Skill floor is too high, new players are alienated completely. Nobody sticks around to learn because even a slightly below average player will shitstomp a new player so hard they won't even get to play the game.
>>334240536
hopefully during the time when all the people who played RTS retired from real life job
>>334238768
pc "gamers" don't buy there games lmao
how do you expect them to make new games when they never got payed
>>334240505
i can win/lose a quick 1v1 match in 20 mins
>>334240552
Empire Earth was, but Empire Earth II was more of a Rise of Nations type game, though better than Rise of Nations imo.
Then there was Empires: Dawn of the New World which was actually great and was kind of it's own game; I liked it a lot.
>>334238768
Because to win in multiplayer you have to become an autistic savant. There are only certain viable build orders and you have to get sanic fast at them.
>.gif of starcraft player quitting after misclicking 1 time
>>334240741
And there was also Empire Earth 3.
Remember that game? There was a third one, right?
I remember it being shit compared to 2.
>>334240739
For grey goo?
I played the campaign for a little.
>>334240826
DO NOT MENTION EE3.
PLEASE.
IT WAS FUCKING TERRIBLE.
>>334240826
It was shit compared to any game.
It was buggy, badly made, and lacked features that were standard in almost any RTS game at the time.
>>334238768
planetary annihilation is pretty fun,
too bad is horribly coded and it leaks memory like there's no fucking tomorrow
>>334240826
>First introduction to Empire Earth was 3
Should I try EE2?
It was cannabilized by MOBAs.
>>334241016
Yes.
It's like Rise of Nations, but without stupid shit like resource limits and Attrition.
>>334240741
Yea but that's the problem. The Empire earth series basically did everything. Why buy the latest Age of blank when you can already play in that time period + everything else in EE1.
It was hard to compete with, and that only hurt the genre.
>>334238768
I dream of an rts built around G.I. Joe or Transformers. Super retro shit. But I know it will never happen.
>>334240869
for RTS games in general, like Company of heroes.
>>334241016
EE2 is great.
But, if you don't run it in a virtual machine, get ready for a headache. I tried and failed to get that game to run on my PC a couple months back, even going so far as to download some community patch that was meant to fix it. It didn't. Even used my actual retail-copy CD key, too.
>>334241016
If you liked Rise of Nations, start with 2.
If you liked Age of Empires, start with 1.
Because Koreans made it about actions per second and basically playing as robots to break the game, instead of playing like normal human beings, who build a base, defenses, etc. and the genre catered towards Koreans instead of towards normal human beings and then died.
>>334241110
But when I talk about it's time consuming, I am talking about learning the game and to get good. It's a long and weary process. It takes forever.
>>334240141
>>334241017
This basically. Slower paced games that require a lot of apm, planning and strategy is just too much work for the average player nowadays. MOBAs are simple and instantly reward the player for clicking an enemy hero and killing him. Their huge playerbase gotta come from somewhere.
Does /v/ play coh 2?
Anyone wants to play automatch?
The problem is the "Real Time" part.
Unless you have really long build times and low resource gain to make decisions meaningful (Like WC3) it just turns into who can hit the most buttons in the shortest amount of time.
I think they're dead because there's no reason to play an RTS anymore.
City builders and Grand Strats are more popular, and if you're thing is controlling a lot of units tactically, you're covered there, too.
>>334240385
SupComFA introduced a lot of cool features with it's launch such as individual ballistics for projectiles, immense command controls for the player allowing them to basebuild while microing troops and gave unlimited resources letting the game scale into humongous late game battles (assuming the match lasted long enough). Still has a pretty dedicated player base too.
>>334241510
I switched over to grand strats and I'm happy. Still miss being able to control individual units and building buildings but what can ya do.
>>334241470
fuck CoH 2
CoH 1 is where it's at
If there was a spreadsheet somewhere with the meta for each faction maybe I'd play it
>>334241504
Well in WC 3 it just ended up being who can micro the fuck out of units.
So it ended up being pushing loads of buttons and having mad aps anyway. Rts in a competitive enviroment will always be loads of stress, because you need to keep watch over the whole battlefield while attacking enemies from severall fronts, all while managing your production and expansion.
RTS are just stressfull, unless you go full casual and just build shit.
>>334241757
>the meta for each faction maybe I'd play it
Stay in coh 1, it's made for faggots like you.
Hell why not just switch to starcraft since it's a much more relevant game?
>>334240385
Can you think of a better balanced mass scale RTS? I'd like to hear it if you can.
>>334240505
>Started playing CnC from "the first decade pack" because I didn't care for the games prior
>commentary has devs talking about how the game is called "the first decade" and not "the decade"
>for most intents and purposes it was "the decade"
>>334240963
A lot of the playerbase complains that the scale ruins the tactical balance of the game turning it into a contest of blobs rather than tactics or strategy.
its not dead
grand strategy is filling the niche
>>334241779
>Rts in a competitive enviroment will always be loads of stress, because you need to keep watch over the whole battlefield while attacking enemies from severall fronts, all while managing your production and expansion.
You diden't need loads of APM to be good at micro. Winning at WC3 had a lot to do with catching your opponent while hes farming creeps or teching up.
It was never worth making more then 2 production buildings and units took a long time to build.
Unlike in SC2 where you need to pump units out non-stop you would start to lose 30% of your income if you went over 50 supply, and you lost 60% of your income if you went over 80. So massing units was a choice, and not just the go to thing based on some optimal build.
It's not all that dead, Planetary Annihilation still exists.
I just want another game with the simplicity and fun of Battle Realms.
>>334241470
Yes. People on /v/ play coh2. There used to be some fun inhouses back in the day. What's your steam? I'll add you and we can play sometime.
>>334242241
Sc 2 battles are blob vs blob.
In WC 3 you had to pull back low life creatures before they would die, or heal them. While possibly raiding neutral camps at the same time with another hero.
Shit was stressful. But a different kind of stress than in SC.
>>334242407
unlimited unit selection killed sc strategy tb\h
>>334241757
>CoH 1 is where it's at
I know /v/ has meme opinions about everything. This may have been true in 2013 but it is false in 2016.
>>334242081
>Can you think of a better balanced mass scale RTS? I'd like to hear it if you can.
Sprint RTS engine allows for a ton of differently balanced versions of Total Annihilation, all free to play.
>>334242407
I never really got to play WC3 online.
I kind of wish I did now if it's as slow-paced as people say it is.
>>334241676
Once I learned about games like Total War and Men of War, I never went back to RTS.
>>334244398
Is Men of War 2 collection worth buying on sale? Do you get to name and customize your little computer people and give them equipment and shit or are they nameless squads?
>>334244345
It is, and it isnt.
I had loads of fun playing it with my casual friends, because we were all horrible at it. And i ussually ended up winning by massing necros and meatwagons. Which is completely impossible against any decent oponent.
Cossacks 3 closed beta is starting soon. Wonder when it'll finally come out.
>>334238768
>le build base, build army so deep and complicated
>>334244345
WC3 online was not slow, at all. It was slower maybe if you played the humans well, but by no means slow, if only because you need to spend half your time microing your heroes.
>>334244865
in comparison to FPS games?
>le get a better weapon with preorder bonus
>le mountain dew code to give me more ammo
>le Doritos
>>334244865
>Lots of unit types
>Research new things
>Manage an economy
>Some diplomacy aspects
Also
>Le walk around and shoot people
>Le walk around in a fantasy universe
See I can do it too
>>334244965
fps arent any better but people like to pretend they're some bad ass super soldier head shotting everyone as they tear through the map and save america.
as for RTS games, theres not much there to fantasize about for the normies.
>>334241624
And terrible slowdowns.
>>334244989
>>Lots of unit types
then the meta changes to using 1-2 of them
>>Research new things
>le more health
>le more armor
omg so fun
>>Manage an economy
something normies cant do very well
>>Some diplomacy aspects
something that doesnt happen in pvp online.
>>334242276
people play total annihilation more than that shit, not a good example
>>334242520
No it didn't it's the fact that there isn't any advantage at all in splitting up your forces.
>>334238768
APM is the cancer who killed RTS.
>>334245148
If starcraft 1 had unlimited unit selection it would still be blob vs blob like starcraft 2.
12 unit selection allows it to become a series of skirmishes across the map that makes it fun to watch.
the popularity of consoles
the current iterations of most rts have been relegated to mobile phone apps, like dungeon keeper, command and conquer.
those that are produced for the console
-why they haven't made a new battlezone type game is beyond me for the consoles
-if they aren't fps then it doesn't feel quite right controlling a game with a game pad.
considering most gamers own a console or are mobile app player
thats pretty much the reason.
also any rts that comes out now will just be a clone of some other game. re: uninspired
the only reason to make an rts game now, its to take advantage of current graphical technology, maybe some novel controllers like voice commands via EndWar, using the connect, and with upcoming VR. Or to update old games to be compatible with current hardware and operating systems. Which is usually done poorly, if at all.
>>334245148
Warcraft 3's upkeep system was the best answer to this. Want a deathball? well now your only mining half as much minerals. Better do something with that deathball soon or your getting massively out echo'd
>>334245249
It's not just that though. The unit pathing was overall pretty bad, so it was hard to actually group them up. It's kind of funny how the engine's various limitations gives the game so much depth.
limited AI makes single player boring. You have to play against human players who spend their lives with the game and you have no chance beating them
Is Grey Goo active online?
h-hey guys.
I'm at work it's 10:37 AM and im starting to get the feels really really bad as I am yet again reminded that RTS is dead.
RA2 is best, Generals + ZH are also astoundingly out of this world.
P-please tell me they'll be back?
>>334240141
To follow up, less skilled friends latched on to shitty MOBAs and you either played with them there or played with the dwindling RTS community of your favorite RTS.
Also western reviewers are shit at the genre and would probably slam the games with low scores because, "IT'S TOO HARD. LEARNING TO PLAY A GAME IS TRIGGERING!!" bullshit.
>>334241075
>without stupid shit like resource limits and Attrition.
Where did you think RoN got that shit from son?
>>334240505
>China is the canon winner
Didn't see that one coming.
>>334241094
Because EE tried to squeeze 10,000 years of history to play on an even footing.
Age of -series does each individual epoch better.
Still liked EE though. The campaigns were rad.
>>334238768
RTS peaked too soon with Command and Conquer, Total Annihilation, Age of Empires and StarCraft. The older generation just got bored of it.
The younger generation will literally play what ever their heroes on youtube are playing and stupid MOBAs are in fashion.
>>334244593
>it's a Back to War remake
>it likely won't make any improvements on the series, not even rebalancing formations to make them better than making hotkeys not designed for retards
>It won't keep anything from American Conquest, no musket inaccuracy or anything.
>>334245829
Yea but it was the early 2000's, you diden't know that, and there was no metacritic or anything like that. In the store if you can only buy one game, your getting the one that has ALL the ages, instead of this other one thats only set in the dark age.
>>334245613
It didn't get them from Empire Earth II, because that game came out after RoN, and it doesn't have either of those things.
>>334244195
Just installed TotalA last week. (Two versions, even, the Escalation and Mayhem mods.) It was fun and all, but the little things really bothered me. No double-clicking to select all of same type, no auto-assist on engineers, and you can't issue build orders on multiple engineers. After playing SupCom this long, these were very frustrating features. Also the pathfinding could have used polishing.
>>334245512
I don't know.
But a sad fact is that after the Grey Goo free week end last year their steam score dropped almost 15%. Every single negative review I read had less then 1 hour in game and said it was boring.
>>334246247
The rebalanced versions have modern interfaces.
Free camera, double-click to select all, the whole deal.
I like Spring RTS engine.
>>334245617
>Game was still banned in China
Maybe because depicting their optimum strategy as being "throw 10,000 people at it and hope 20 survive" didn't help.
>>334246036
While it's trying to stay close to how the first game and its expansions played they did say there would be improvements and balancing changes if they saw a need for them through the testing. It's also going to have new campaigns. So it's kind of halfway between a new game and a remake.
Plus it's going to have extensive mod tools so you can change anything you want basically.
>>334238768
Publishers. Good RTS games are hard and long to make. Publishers kept trying to cut corners which resulted in the game failing. When they received feedback that players wanted old style RTS games with economy's and buildings and most importaintly long good single player publishers plugged their ears and ignored them.
Thats why most RTS games come out of indie and crowdfunded stuff now a days. But they fail hard to because they almost always skimp out one single player which is what most people want. They dont want 8 missions thats just a long tutorial for multiplayer. Many dont want multiplayer at all.
So there you go. People want RTS games but no one wants to make what the players want. RTS players refuse to compromise so we have a stand off.
>>334238768
>die
you do realize the greatest game of all time broodwar is still being played right?
>>334245249
Because like I said the game lacks depth when it comes to mechanics to give an advantage with fewer units. There is literally no reason to split up your force as a bigger army is always better then a small one.
>>334246367
Don't forget that C&C rights belong to EA.
Fucking EA just sell them fuck!
Because everyone wants clones of old stuff, then complain the new stuff is an inferior clone of the old stuff. Then they play the old stuff, realize it's a wasteland if you care about multiplayer, ask themselves if new games can revitalize the genre, and so on, and so on.
>>334246760
And Dungeon Keeper...
>>334246760
>EA makes C & C4
>Everyone hates it
>They blame the consumer
>EA makes Dungeon Keeper
>Everyone hates it
>They blame the consumer
When did the consumer stop being right
>>334246890
When the suits realized that the players are the same nerds they used to bully in middle school.
>>334246890
>C&C 4
don't ever mention that again
>>334246890
>be EA
>can't make a good game.
>well let's make sure that nobody make it.
>SEND IT TO THE IP DUNGEON!
>>334238768
Because the average IQ of gamers dropped by 30 points when normies started doing it too, and so games with any depth or complexity are considered bad business.
>>334245832
>Its the older generation of buyers fault for liking RTS so its not popular with kids today
I say its more like EA fucked it all up especially with CNC4, and Blizzard came in too late with Starcraft 2.
All while kids who grew up pirating their copies of Warcraft 3 turned MOBA into a big thing today.
>>334246340
>"throw 10,000 people at it and hope 20 survive"
That was the Arab strategy.
China had a legitimately powerful army funded by hackers.
>>334240697
(You)
>>334246890
Because EA believes that they dont need us. That if we dont like what they make WE are wrong not them. Thats why when we say no they just kill it off instead of fixing it.
>>334247376
I honestly think RTS is out of ideas. There's nothing to add that hasn't already been done in a classic RTS.
The last original RTS I've played was Ruse, everything else is just reusing old game mechanics. RTT is a much more interesting genre. The Men of War series for example.
>>334238768
Consoles
>>334247726
RTS games should try making an classic style RTS that doesn't require huge amounts of APM.
People would still bitch, though.
It's not a dead genre. Nobody is releasing good new RTS games.
A friend and I were talking about how we wanted to play RTS the other day. I considered buying Rise of Nations on Steam. (I already own it, but on a disc in a drawer somewhere.)
Recent RTS releases just haven't picked up the way they needed to. If you pick a big one (say Planetary Annihilation or Grey Goo) people will give you a list of reasons it didn't work out.
All you need is a good RTS release and people will play RTS games again.
>>334248039
>All you need is a good RTS release
gib examples
captcha: clinton 2016
>>334247726
Honestly, I don't really think you need to inovate a lot, just make a game considered great by current standards with the mechanics you have been using all this time.
Admitedly, Im a bit of a newbie in terms of RTS's but Im sure that if DOW3 o its equivalent came out, almost everyone would give it a shit if it was like the first or Dark Crusade.
A solid, fun and balanced RTS, even if not the most complicated, would still sell well and revitalize the genre. A genre can only live if people play it and it has good games, no?
>>334248039
>It's not a dead genre. Nobody is releasing good new RTS games
So it's still dead because people decided so, and there is nothing that will change their opinion. That's so much better.
>>334247978
Try Grey Goo. It's infamous in the starcraft community for not requiring a high APM.
Decent game but they kind of shot themselves in the foot by charging $50 for it on release.
>>334248135
Just make AoE2 but with shiny graphics and good UI/pathfinding
That's all it needs
>>334247437
GLA was guerilla warfare AKA save up points for a sneak attack and then spill 20 bomb trucks through the back of the other guy's base, or my personal favorite, put 5 RPG soldiers in a technical and wreck the other player at the start
>>334248135
Now that you mention it DoW was successful.
DoW2 isn't RTS though, it's Real Time Tactics.
>>334238768
RTS died when MOBA became a thing with the original DOTA. MOBAs---for the causal players---is less resource management heavy and quicker in terms of direct action.
Also with the blunders that have been Starcraft 2 and the most recent C&C games, I don't play the mainstream for not giving a shit anymore.
>>334248248
This was my tactic, followed by technicals and bomb trucks.
>>334248337
I remember rangers with flash bangs could annihilate mobs if they were garrisoned in something.
I enjoyed Rise of Nations: Rise of Legends
Where you can play as the Vinci and Alin and so on
Shit was pretty fun, good solid competitive gameplay but nothing like SC wank
The story did suck anus though but the intro cinematic was the dopest shit ever!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvXF3oGy-iE
>>334240741
>Empires: Dawn of the New World
My fucking nigga. Nobody mentions that game on /v/. Nobody.
>>334238768
because YOU aren't supporting the new RTS games.
>>334248135
Define "solid, fun and balanced RTS". For most of the people, it's "shallow copy of an old game with prettier graphics". Which, of course, explains why the genre is in such a rot.
>>334246462
what happened to that new league they announced? is that going on now? I haven't been to team shitquid in forever.
>>334248415
A few games had that mechanic, a newer Red Alert and I think Star Wars: Empire at War did too. It made garrisoning units almost totally pointless, huge risk for a medium defense bonus.
>>334248617
It was a great game. I think it's probably better than EE1 unless you REALLY are yearning for the prehistoric and future eras.
At least with EE the future eras feature the HERCS that nobody fucking remembers.
>>334238937
Damn, I love Orginal War....
>>334250663
I've been meaning to try it out.
>>334240757
>>334238768
The most recent RTS I played was Dawn of War, when they were giving it away free a while back on steam. I glazed over the fact that there was only one campaign and it was Space Marines. I don't know why but it kind of killed the momentum I had for it: I only played a couple maps and tried Eldar on multiplayer, then deleted it.
The only other "real" RTS I played was Company of Heroes. I would have fucking played to the end, too, but it wasn't my copy and I lost access to it.
>>334251318
>>334240757
this one
>>334251395
God I hate Starcraft.
>>334240356
If you really want to play DoW2, then Elite mod is the only acceptable way to do so.
Just get bugfix mod for soulstorm instead.
>>334242551
CoH2 is a piece of shit. I put hundreds of hours into CoH. Went ahead and pirated CoH2, couldn't even stand that fucking garbage for one hour. Everything felt wrong.
>>334251395
I don't get that gif, explain please.
>>334251914
>everything felt wrong
ur shite. Put another 20hrs into coh2 and it'll be fine. It's a good sequel to the original.
>>334251956
See the first click isn't quite on the minerals? He quits because of that.
>>334251956
He missed the click on the minerals and his workers didnt start harvesting straight away, giving the oponent at least 500 ms of an advantage, so he simply quit, knowing that he has lost.
First person shooters almost died too.
It's all Halo/Cod clones nowadays with little to no variety and sometimes no singleplayer whatsoever.
F
>>334251318
>playing protos
>with a console controller
seems about right lol
>>334238768
Lack of interest, really. We had decent sequels like C&C3, Rise of legends sell absolutely abysmally. Nobody wanted to buy RTS past 2005, even if they were good.
>>334251914
I thought exactly the same in beta.
But then I bought it and play to this day.
The design logic is hard to detect at first.
I really dislike EE2.
>>334252254
Why?
>>334252037
>>334252104
Oh wow, haha. That's autism at its finest. Thanks for the explanation anon.
>>334252321
it's just not very fun, especially compared to RoN.
>>334252170
Thanks EA.
Also they made this game recently.
>>334252382
I never found RoN to be that good.
Attrition, fast Era Advancement, and the increasing cost of units as you buy more of them just made the game about rushing to Modern Era and spamming Bombers.
I feel like EE2 did it better.
>>334252346
What i find most hilarious in quite a few of these autismo SC 2 matches is, that a lot of players could win or just play better by slowing down. The high apm makes them do mistakes, and waste actions. And at times simply taking a deep breath, and refocusing on the game would yield better results.
>>334252495
Not your replyer but, Rise of Legends was bad ass.
>>334252471
Grey goo i found ok, but seriously it lacked polish. The units controlled like shit. And the non goo races felt too samey. I mean fuck i lost severall armies trying to go uphill, and then the units got stuck in eachother, started just pacing up and down a ledge, while a enemy bombards them. The pathing... seriously fucking utter trash.
>>334252471
God the ground textures are so ugly... I forgot how much I hated the aesthetics of the swamp planet or whatever.
>>334240426
Yeah, it got pretty bad like this on Company of Heroes (the first one had far more intense win/loss tracking) and Dawn of War 2.
Dosent help that the good players tend to smurf with new accounts or exclusively play in teams meaning you are constantly stuck with mediocre to bad players and get stomped constantly.
>>334252471
Honestly, this game made me sad. Grey Goo could have been good if the units weren't so god damn boring.
They LITERALLY put the same units into all 3 factions save one high tier unit and one hero unit. The other units are all the fucking same across all 3 factions, save slight modifications in damage, health or movement speed.
Also it doesn't help that all the units are boring as fuck. No abilities. No unique traits.
The base building was so different and unique across the 3 factions. One was able to teleport their buildings across the map and another faction didn't even fucking have bases that they built. Why could they not have shown the same amount of creativity across the different units?
>>334238768
Consoles.
You'll remember that RTS was tried on consoles and failed. Subsequently, RTS died on PC because they can't be multiplatform making them less lucerative.
>>334252714
sounds like it was an early access game that got pushed out too fast cause their money dried up.
They didn't. SupCum FA still has a healthy community and it's really the only RTS that's worth playing.
Anyone here played Ashes of the singularity? I'm supposedly getting a free copy with my new GPU but was wondering how it was as it's advertising battles with lots of units. How does it compare to FA (still playing that shit regularly)?
>>334252714
Could not agree more. It had so much originality and potential in the base building, only to shit out generic as fuck units.
>>334252535
It was basically the same game though.
Wasn't a fan of capturing cities. Did like the new way of building cities, though.
>>334238768
Currently playing Empire at War: Forces of Corruption.
Got an irritating bug during the Dathomir mission. When I blow up the prison where Silri is kept, Tyber and Urai are just standing there like two wooden poles and look at her and don't even say anything.
Does anyone knows how to fix this?
>>334238768
Because RTS-genres business model was so bad. Everybody bought one copy of Age of Empires 2 and stopped buying RTS games. If they had some sort of micro payments or subscription fee like MOBAs or MMOs have maybe RTS would stil be around.
>>334238768
>Why did RTS games die?
Because nothing can live up to Total Annihilation.
>>334254243
Please end yourself.
>>334254367
Like RTS games did? Peaking too early?
>>334254243
You have lots of games like that. I don't see people buying dozens of copes of CoD.
'But DLC!' RTS has that too, we called them expansion packs.
>>334238768
Demand for multiplayer competitiveness from the nips and chinks and mobas.
>>334254347
TA with mods is godly, how can anything else even compete
People dont have the attention span anymore for RTS games.
They need instant gratification and fast.
they died because the genre achieved perfection with the conquerors
It's an inherently stressful genre that focuses on micromovements and autistic, robotic motions. Saying that you like playing Starcraft II is like saying you like being a glorified calculator/ dopefiend.
If they made it more fluid, with more orientation towards teamwork and tactics, it could make a resurgence.
>>334254716
git gud
>>334240141
>WC3 was good but then WoW happened and they could never make a WC4.
This is one thing I cannot forgive Blizzard for not sticking to WarCraft as an RTS and completely ignoring that part for WoW. Then again after how they handled the story in SCII...better not then.
But my dream WCIV would be as follows:
>Happens after TFT. WoW is retconned into an alternative timeline.
>A lot of bullshit is not there, Thrall is still Warchief, Jaina is not "Dad was right" and full "Remove Horde", Theramore is still standing and none of the characters that appeared in WCIII and TFT went corrupt or stupid.
>Personally I'd see the game as a retelling of WoW and its expansions, but with all the bullshit thrown away.
>Garrosh doesn't become Warchief and Thrall doesn't whitewash Grom's character. He tells him just not to be a dick like his dad even if he did free the Orcs from their pact with Mannoroth. Instead becomes the epitome of courage and honor. Many fixes to what WoW did to are fixed.
>The game would have thrice the scale compared to WCIII and naval units from the start.
>The player is treated the same way like in older RTS Blizzard games (like the first WCs and SC+BW), yet you get to create your hero character that acts as your champion that makes sure everything goes the way you want it to happen. Not like in WoW where the players were heroes. You are the commander here, and your hero you create is your champion.
>Equipment is handled the same way as in WoW and can result in heroes looking very distinct from each other.
That's just some of the things I'd like, but knowing Blizzard and ActiVision, it will go down the drain and be turned into a E-Sports shitfest.
>>334238768
Trust me when blizzard finally makes warcraft 4 its going to be a fucking big game they've learnt a lot from sc2 and it should be great. Wow on the other hand.....
>>334254716
>If they made it more fluid, with more orientation towards teamwork and tactics,
You mean like mobas? Because that is exactly what mobas are.
Total War games should be the best RTS games we have ever played but they fucked up.
>>334254551
Spring RTS is good
>>334252930
Heard it's good.
>>334239862
>RTS needs to go back to build and chill like in red alert 1 and Warcraft days.
Fucking this. All I want to do is play multiplayer warcraft with people while kicking back and smoking a joint. Fuck, when I move into my next place, I may pick up a few old laptops, install warcraft I and II, plus expansions, and use them for dedicated warcraft lan parties. Shit, the more I think about this, the more I want to do it.
>>334254961
>ultragiganigga.png
only quads can save us
>>334238768
Anyone remember Caesar III?
>this shit again for the millionth time already
Fuck off OP
APM and Stale strategies deter those who are uninterested.
>>334239862
I actually think RTS games should differ greatly from each other by putting spins on the RTS tropes and add some extra stuff that makes them stand out.
>>334255193
Should've stopped him 189 post ago. YER TOO LATE.
>>334255246
The thing is, these games are fine without APM statistics. so really twitch is to blame, most people who played RTS games in the past just played how they wanted to.
So I blame twitch for this.
idiots watch twitch, assume this is the only way the game can be played, give up.
>>334255189
I remember the day it sped up insanely fast in the cd rom and shattered inside my pentium. I miss managing the plebs. Would love a graphical update of that game so bad.
>>334255316
While i agree with you, in theory, i think it more speaks to /pro/ players, even before twitch this was an issue where basically all of the 'top tier' strategies and stale metagame came from pro games and just filtered down.
It's far more pronounced now, due in part to Twitch and everyone wanting to be a pro player fangay, but it's always been around, since atleast BW / WC3.
Also, those stale strategies basically mean that whoever has the higher APM, and whoever can implement the strategy first wins.
>>334255451
Which is shit and unenjoyable. Look at mobas, RTS should follow suit so that even shit players like me can have fun. Shouldn't need asian reflexes just to enjoy a game.
>>334255451
Ah yeah, you're right. thanks for elaborating on my theory.
>>334255031
There is still large Warcraft II server running, and they have a freeware client to play on it.
http://en.war2.ru/downloads/
>>334255650
I've given thought about this, what would be some ways to actually implement that with RTS? just longer build times or? what something with the resource management have to change maybe.
>>334255726
Not sure but it would be difficult. Something like towers/turrets/settlements/castles that block rush tactics and similar teamwork with 1vs1 3vs3 5vs5 and higher maps. That's about it. Towers help stop being bum rushed by someone with a bot or insane autism for playing perfectly.
>>334238768
apm
>>334254961
>its going to be a fucking big game
So big that they'll divide it into 4 separate games. over a period of 10 years.
>>334251395
This is more of an argument against autistic tryharders than against the game itself
>>334252817
Nah, that was literally old devs being creatively bankrupt, thinking doesn't costs money. It's painfully fucking obvious they thought the market was dry enough to play the "base formula" card, the types that sometimes spawn genre revivals like with crpgs and rogue-lites.
>>334256475
I mean..thinking may be free, but new assets and balancing does.
>>334254506
>he doesn't see people buying CoD over and over again
?????????????
>>334238768
They stopped designing them as fun games and started designing them to be competitive multiplayer apm driven bullshit.
>>334256698
They're different games retard. Same engine perhaps but so what? I don't see people saying Westwood were hacks because the RA engine was basically the same as the TD one.
>>334238768
Ensemble studios was a video game developer initially established in 1995 as an independent company by Tony Goodman, Rick Goodman and John Boog-Scott, but was acquired by Microsoft in 2001 and operated as an internal studio until 2009, when it was officially disbanded.
Westwood Studios was an American video game developer, based in Las Vegas, Nevada. It was founded by Brett Sperry and Louis Castle in 1985[1] as Westwood Associates and was renamed Westwood Studios when it merged with Virgin Interactive in 1992. The company was bought from Virgin Interactive by Electronic Arts (EA) in 1998, and closed by EA in 2003.
Because this was allowed to happen. Also SupCom3 could be made because their studio still exists except it won't happen because the genre has passed away.
Holy shit started playing Supreme commander 2, some of the experimental's are insane
>>334238768
Asians killed them
>>334252503
There really aren't many choices to make though, most pro players have exact builds they are following that have to be carried out down to the second. The mistakes only hurt them because they are playing at such a high speed to begin with. If they slow down, they lose the game.
That's why low APM but smart pro WC3 players like Grubby could never make it in SC2.
>>334256573
Yes, but if you plan ahead and got a good idea of what you're going to do it makes no difference, or rather, it costs more to make a shit game with good assets than a good game with bad assets. E.g.: Modding scene, some indie retro, Aurora and Dwarf Fortress compared with AAA shovelware.
>>334256870
THIS tbqh
>>334256842
Try out the AC 1000.
>empire earth 2
Stop reminding me of shit game, anon. ;_;
>>334256987
What was so wrong with Empire Earth II?
>>334257087
It's not good as Empire Earth 1
>>334257413
That doesn't make it a bad game
>>334257413
It was different, I would not necessarily call it bad.
EE3 I would call bad.
>>334256908
wishful thinking
>>334238768
A lot of 'old' games aren't popular anymore because of how much they punish you for mistakes, and how much time you have to invest into the game to actually understand the game. Most genres can be tweaked to better suit todays standards of videogames, but RTS games are defined by those things. Technology also plays its part. Since the perspective is usually so far away from anything (and nobody zooms in because maximizing your field of vision is a must) even the most impressive graphics just don't seem impressive when you can barely make out someones face. Then you've got starcraft which has a firm grasp on the market. And THEN you've got other strategy games specializing in whatever you liked about RTS games in the first place. People have taken more interest in grand strategy games, city builders, 4x, and like it or not, mobas. The result is mobas being hype popular mainstream. The others are fun to play alone, and are easy enough for smaller devs to produce. And then there's RTS, which is competitive, stressful since every second counts, and lacks a decent solo experience. So if it doesn't have a large active playerbase (which it wont unless it's starcraft) you pretty much just wasted your money.
So basically, it's probably just a mixture of shifts in what people want, strategy fans being more spread out over several genres, and the lack of people playing them itself making it undesirable to play them. Or something like that.
>>334257413
I wouldn't say it wasn't as good.
EE1 was Age of Empires.
EE2 was Rise of Nations.
A better Rise of Nations, I might add.
>>334238768
Too complicated to pick up for new people. Shitty 3 resource systems. (Just have damn money and energy)
Too many unit upgrades and tiers.
(Just build a powerplant rather then have to choose to either upgrade or go through 3 tiers of different powerplants.)
Too many units that do the same thing.
(Rather make more factions and have either have their own type of units rather tne stamp them into a single one.)
![header[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/yNnmL9G.jpg "header[1].jpg")
Okay, this thread made me interested. I looked up Grey Goo, and apart from the lukewarm reaction upon release they've patched a shitload of things this year, with multiple patches in February alone. UI, AI, factions, balance.
It's now a Definitive Edition with all previous DLC and improvements rolled into it. This ... seems as if the developers actually really care about the game. Can anyone comment? It looks promising to be honest.
>>334257946
Looks good steam reviews are a little low though.
Will probably pick it up if it goes on sale
>>334257946
This has got to be one of the most detailed and useful update histories on Steam
http://steamcommunity.com/games/290790/announcements?p=1
No shilling, it just seems as if the devs really love their game, and that makes me excited for a new RTS again.
>>334249509
>I think it's probably better than EE1
They are different games. EE1 put more enfasis in advancing through the ages, Dawn was about nations being totally different from each other
Multiplayer and asians killed it. Look at factorio go.
Am I the only one hoping for a Warcraft 4just so someone can make sandbox custom Roleplay maps like SotDRP popular again? I'd play the main story too but this is what I miss most about WC3.
>>334240505
>China wins.
Anyone ever played Tom Clancy's Endwar? I have a few hours in it, seems like a fun game but I have never seen anyone talk about it
>>334258349
>Forgot pic
Lots of unit customization out of battle and the graphics and story are nice
The question is, will this fix anything?
>>334258457
Well it "fixes" the economy to be more generic
>>334254920
well WoW was more profitable then to make Warcraft 4, if I would be the CEO I would have done the same and so would you.
>>334258457
should have make wargame 4
They didn't die.
Its just the ones that come out are really lack luster and are trying to be SC2, which is lack luster and riding on its e-sport faggotory more then anything.
>>334257705
mosty everything what you say is true, but 1 reason why mobas did get popular was they where more fun then old rts.
Lets take a look at starcraft you and your 2 friends want to go 3 vs3, you die in the first 14 minutes now you have to wait that your friends finish their game and you are bored and you cant talk to them anyway because there is no time to talk you have to ramp up this 300 APM.
Meanwhile you can grab4 friends and play dota that leaves you with enough time to casually talk trough the game with your friends and if you die you are back into the game in less then a minute.
old RTS games are just anti social.
>>334258845
Well RTS is made for 1v1 anyway.
If you want to make a co-op RTS game they should do what Savage did and make it so your players are units
>>334258845
That's true, I completely forgot about how fragile your presence and participation is in matches with more than two people. It's a shame really, since those tend to be a lot of fun with friends.
>>334244509
Individual soldiers get randomized names and you can have them pick up whatever gear they can find on the battlefield. Not alot of customization unless you mess with the mission editor. Grab the first game and see if you like the feel of it, shit is cheap as fuck.
>>334256842
If only the game didn't suck so much and wasn't engineered for retarded console players...
Some of the exps like the unit magnet were pants on head retarded though
RIP GPG
>>334258657
Only with more effort put into the writing.
>>334259262
No you wouldn't, you would rack up all the dosh and go with on your private airplane and throw shit at nerds.
>>334259656
I'm not Metzen nor Kossak. And bad writing and asspulls cause me to rage.
>>334245050
So unbelievably sad but true.
>>334258178
Yeah but that's the thing I felt like EE1 in the mid-game all it is just ramps up more and more age advancements, while Dawn has a lot more going on in it.
>>334256870
>Asians killed them
This. Getting beaten in 30 seconds on a game that should take hours is not fun, and it is beyond get gud.
>>334260115
Yea but theres strategy in that alone, if you do nothing but advance in age you are left with a tiny army and the combat is pretty fun once you get into the bronze age.
Yea Dawn had a better end game and had a better balance in general, but EE was about the journey, and the fun of having muskets and cannons, or even ww1 tech while your opponent is still in the dark ages.
I would actually say that EE1 was like an RTS version of Civilization.
>>334238768
Because they're <spoiler>ALL THE SAME</spoiler>
>>334261329>spoiler
Transition from 2D to 3D killed RTS, it's a fact.
And then MOBAs came.
>>334260785
I don't know how to you have better balance than EE, where every Civ is LITERALLY the same.
>>334238768
0ad
sc2
aoe2 remake
aom remake
ron remake
coh2
dow2
act of aggression
grey goo
total annihilation
...
i could go on
>>334261501
Then again I still don't know why people hate EEII.
>>334238768
Lack of pacing
Lack of TECHNOLOGY (mainly usage of terrain)
Devolution into APM fests
Bt mostly lack of pacing
The game needs to be at least as fast as Starcraft and if so, you need to eliminate the APM threshold
Games didn't die, they evolved into Dota. Now Dota needs to evolve into Warcraft 3 2.0
Who /worldinconflict/ here?
>>334258457
This is sad
SO FUCKING SAD
They think they can fix the game by changing some things but in reality multiplayer RTS become good when they are popular.
Why? Constant meta changes, low queues and updates.
They just shoot themselves in own foot without inspiring and interesting (some would say meme worthy) single player part.
