>MMO starts with a 20y training queue
Why is this allowed?
In other news, the biggest war apparently ever is happening. Why not play? Inb4 guesses about the gameplay as if the spreadsheets meme is true.
But it's confusing
>>333820338
If you join the CFC, you will:
1. Receive training
2. Receive free ships
3. Receive free ISK
4. Immediately get into the action
5. Make friends with the best bros in the universe.
Join today.
>>333820338
>Why is this allowed?
You could buy characters and SP legally. A new player has the potential to make a ton of money in a short amount of time thru various means such as exploiting a market niche or scam.
>the biggest war apparently ever is happening. Why not play?
I just quit eve, and I don't plan to join any big fleets with 1000+ people in the near future because of tidi. I prefer just roaming with a few bros
>>333820338
SP doesn't matter as much as skill
>>333820546
Reminder that the main alliance of the CFC is a Something Awful group
Also reminder that the CFC is currently losing
>>333820338
Big wars/battles are super boring
Small fights are way more exciting/fun
>>333820626
>Reminder that the main alliance of the CFC is a Something Awful group
And? Goons are the biggest, most powerful group in all of EVE. Plus moot was from SA.
>Also reminder that the CFC is currently losing
No, we're not. We're employing the Fabian strategy to lethal effect.
>>333820710
Go back to somethingawful. You guys didn't need all the space right?
>>333820626
>Reminder that the main alliance of the CFC is a Something Awful group
where the fuck do you think you are? this site was founded on SA
>>333820338
Long time ago, I played it seriously for a while, had two accounts, 3 characters, pimped out Tengu, Orca and stuff. It's amazing, but it's a game about being a dick and dealing with dicks, not appealing to me. These days I want a fair PvP and there are no fair fights in EVE, has never been, completely wrong game for that.
>>333820584
>SP doesn't matter as much as money
Fixed that for you. You can buy a fulled skilled out character for real life monies
EVE honestly seems incredibly boring from a gameplay standpoint.
Plus, I'm honestly too old to get any enjoyment out of hardcore perma death games. If I'm putting time and effort into something, I'd like for it to be semi permanent.
same reason I dont play sandbox survival games, 1000 hours of work can be undone in 15 minutes
>>333821062
EVE isn't remotely permadeath. You can't even lose skillpoints anymore.
>>333820584
>SP doesn't matter as much as skill
Maybe they've revamped skills since I last played (5 years ago), butt that's not really true. I can count plenty of times where I played a fight perfectly and lived with <5% hull HP left. If I didn't have all of my weapon and ship spec skills maxed I would have died.
>>333821021
>Literal Cow girl
disgusting
>>333820961
SA from early 2000s!=SA right now
Goons are horrible people
>>333820710
>No, we're not
But you lost a giant alliance and a shit ton of space
>>333821091
You can still lose T3C skills
>>333820338
Because its boring as shit.
>>333820338
>In other news, the biggest war apparently ever is happening. Why not play?
Assuming big wars are the same as they used to be (POS warfare and blobbing), then that shit ain't fun unless you're an FC, which you won't be.
>>333821173
Like I said, Fabian strategy
most of the people who complain about EVE:
1) did nothing but mine and run missions in highsec, got bored, and quit
2) did nothing but mine and run missions in highsec, got ganked, ragequit
3) did nothing but mine and run missions in nullsec, got bored, and quit
people with small imaginations dont last very long in EVE
>>333821258
EVE is only as boring as you make it, the only conclusion is that youre a boring person
>>333821316
How exactly are you causing attrition and lowering morale?
>>333820584
this desu, I have more SP than I know what to do with but I still suck ass at the game and only do things that require around 2 weeks of training
>>333821091
> 1000 hours of work can be undone in 15 minutes
Might as well be permadeath.
>>333821394
The Band of Backstabbers will soon turn on each other.
>>333821325
>EVE is only as boring as you make it
Oh fuck right off, the sheer amount of RNG and grinding you have to do before and while you do anything is boring as shit.
>>333821325
The biggest thing is getting into a good corp that will show you the ropes.
>>333821325
>EVE IS PERFECT FUCK EVERYONE WAHHHH
You are the reasons eve has a shit community
>>333821432
Oh I am sure they will
Enjoy losing all your space and ships :^)
>>333820580
A decently completed sub-capital (ship) character is about 40B. At a plausible maximum of 100M/hr (it's honestly more like 20-50M/hr), that's 400 hours of bullshit (nothing that makes decent ISK in EVE is entertaining), just to play an almost-complete combat niche in a sandbox game.
Like.. not even material reprocessing, item production, or mining.. for a USD equivalent of $680 (for a subscription game).
There's nothing about starting the game with no SP that's interesting, at least in light of having a decently maxed ship. I have 20M SP and still have no experience with industry though, and that's the defining feature for what makes EVE the worst MMO.
>muh tidi
A huge war is no demand that every fight is 1kv1k. Small gang exists.
>>333821430
What are you getting at, losing titans?
>Oh no my spaceship died. Better not undock or take any risks ever again. I'm only going to choose fights i can definatly win!
Every single eve online player. People need to welp solo battleships until they learn to stop giving a shit.
>>333821523
Who said you need a fully trained subcap pilot to enjoy the game?
Grow some fucking balls and gitgud
>>333821605
The solution is simple;
All ships should deteriorate over time.
http://pastebin.com/Uf3hELKS
>It's another CFCucks are mad episode
>>333820584
No vets go 1v1 -- huge SP vs tiny -- just to prove this idea, because it's so obvious that equal skill delegates the winner as that with the most SP. Having 100% capacitor potential vs. 50%-70% (as it's not just "-5% cap recharge is -5% total cap performance") completely sets the engagement's favor. There are skills for everything as well: DPS, HP..
>>333821654
>a fully trained subcap pilot to enjoy the game
Have to be able to play a part of the game before it can be enjoyed. Picture, also.
Daily reminder: the owner of the I Want Isk website is funding the mercenary coalition to fight the CFC because he's a butthurt baby.
>>333820338
>Why not play?
Because I stopped playing in 2009, and I have no intention of firing it up it again unless they run a campaign where I would get all the skillpoints I'd have built up over the last seven years.
>>333821523
You don't need a 40B character, just characters that you need to fill a specific role like JF alt/cyno alt/cloaky camper/logi alt. Money making potential is also very high, since you could steal or scam stuff. Personally, I never did steal or scam and never would. Even with me making money only by looting or doing the occasional DED site, I was able to buy a carrier and dread alt.
A huge war is no demand that every fight is 1kv1k. Small gang exists.
I know, that's pretty much what I do. I just grew bored of eve and stopped playing, partly because of time restraints with me getting a job and living in dedtz.
>CFC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss_V58AYX2E
>>333821661
That would actually work. As long as you dont get insurance if a ship rots in the hanger/marketplace people wouldnt lose money unless they lost their shit in a fight.
>>333821863
>>333821763
Looks like the CFC is more butthurt
>>333821841
You are aware that RNG mostly decides completely fair duels, right?
You won't have one person die and the other at 1% hull
>>333821325
Right on all three counts. I tried and quit EVE on three separate occasions, then quit due to boredom. I'm too boring and unimaginative for it.
>play EVE
>have to spend $500+ or grind for 1,000 hours just to make a ship to battle people with
>oops your ship blew up that'll be another $500 goy
Why would anyone do this to himself? It's not even a fun game.
>>333821961
It should be a totally separate but inescapable factor of all ships, regardless of type all ships deteriorate over time. Only exception should be Frigates so new players are not fucked over.
And it should be fairly quick, slowing down for larger ships (since they obviously require more time to get) but enough to matter.
A Titan should die in a month, maybe two. This way people build ships to use them in engagements, rather than what we have now (which is arguably the worst thing about Eve) which is Cold War arms races.
>>333822221
>I'm a retard that cannot into video games
Stick to Candy Crush, kiddo
EVE online is only confusing for plebs
its gated by sub time
you only progress by subbing longer
its basically a MUD with an artificial progress gate, so a lot of the time is not spent actually playing the game
its extremely simple game and just plebs blow it out of proportion because they cant be bothered to actually play it
>>333822221
>Not jewing it up and making enough money to buy a ship in one second. Even the big ones.
>>333822221
>basic market skills are too hard of a concept for my mind to grasp
>>333822054
What does RNG have to do with standard EVE combat? Tracking is calculated. Damage is non-random.
The game is honestly only as boring as you are.
I specced straight into a high risk, high value way to make dosh (nullsec exploration) it was mostly hours of grinding out logic puzzles. That's how you open the high value containers you find.
However, the times you are being chased with hours and hours of high value loot in your cargo hold with EVERYTHING on the line were the MOST excillarating moments i've had in gaming. I'm 25 and some of my earliest memories are of playing super Mario Brothers on the NES. I have quite a history of play to draw on.
The feeling of triumph and releif when you escape on your own wit, reaction time, and knowledge is unlike anything i've ever experienced in another game. Every time I failed there was ALWAYS something I could have done better and I didn't feel cheated.
The real sense of loss in this game underpins all of those experiences.
I like this game.
>>333821841
>Have to be able to play a part of the game before it can be enjoyed
You're clueless, just spend 2 weeks training for an ewar frigate and find some friends to PvP with
>>333822421
>what are wrecking shots
Only missiles are RNG-free
>>333822423
I hope this is copy pasta or bait because its too retarded to be a real person
>>333822054
This is somewhat true. Or at least it was back when autocannons were worth a damn. Everyone looks at EFT and looks at the on paper dps of any given ship and thinks thats all there is to it. Minmatar were fucking awesome because of their sig radious. Back then it was pretty much the same as critical hit chance. Autocannons had the best chance of wrecking shots in falloff and when you add target painters to the mix it became insaine. We went around with fucking halo sets on our carriers and the sig bonus from the minmatar titan. No one realised there were doing shit damage because they were never getting wrecking shots and we were.
I have no idea how it works now. Im told ACs were nerfed and minmatar lost all their falloff bonuses.
>>333821763
hahahah
>dude i totally am not mad
>but why do you fuckheads fund our enemies! its not fair! you shouldnt be allowed to do that!
>>333822421
Damage is random
I am sorry that you have no understanding of the game mechanics
>>333822524
Ignoring the other bullshit, the point about exploration being exciting is definitely true.
Jumping into a gate surrounded by bubbles and 2 dozen ships ready to blow apart your ship with half a billion worth of loot in it and your only defense is your cloak? That's always fun.
>>333822524
Why is my experience with this game retarded?
>>333821105
>I played a fight perfectly
>"I USED A TOOL TO WORK OUT THE "CORRECT" ORBITING RANGE AND THEN JUST SAT BACK WHILST THE BARS WENT DOWN
>>333822679
This guy gets it.
>PLEX
P2W sandbox game, oh boy
>>333822708
>>333822894
>I don't know what I'm talking about: the post
>>333822708
No tool is fast enough to do that also it depends on a lot of factors
experience is worth a lot more
>>333822708
>"I USED A TOOL TO WORK OUT THE "CORRECT" ORBITING RANGE AND THEN JUST SAT BACK WHILST THE BARS WENT DOWN
this might apply if you were fighting asteroids, friend ;^)
>>333822894
The only way to win eve is to quit it
>>333822338
>>333822346
>>333822406
Are EVE players really this cancerous?
>>333822513
How does that fix there being so much SP that the only decent idea is speccing a single niche?
>>333823085
Are average /v/ posters this stupid?
>>333823085
Using a proxy won't hide the fact you're the guy they're replying to.
>>333822938
>>333823007
>Having a decently maxed character in an MMO isn't winning
Found the Damage Control II.
>>333822708
>Using the click commands
>that can't predict and are less optimal than manual piloting
Wew.
WAGESLAVE: THE GAME
>>333823085
Eve has one of the worst MMO communities there is, its hugely elitist for no reason and all valid criticisms are swept under the rug.
>>333822938
How is Eve not P2W?
If you spend money on PLEX, you get more ISK, which directly translates into more power for you and your corp.
I bet if we had public information on the top corps and their accounts you would find ALL the top players and corps spend real money on PLEX to get ahead of everyone else.
>>333823201
>>333823296
>there is a way to win EVE
this is a bad meme
>actually believing top corps spend any real money when they can get idiots working for their funds
this is just outright bait
>>333823172
You honestly need to go back to SA and stay there, cunt.
>>333823414
>there aren't goals that every single demographic would have coming into a sandbox game
>that wouldn't include winning more fights, being able to actually do stuff in the game without skill timers, having ISK without doing awful stuff or the equivalent of Mexico pay
Etc..
>>333823098
>only a single niche
Try not being triggered at the thought of leaving skills at 4 instead of 5 and you'll find that it doesn't take nearly as much time as you think it does to train into new roles
Seriously just gitgud
>>333820338
because the game is boring as fuck.
yes it's fun because of the people, cliques, corps and alliances.
But I want to play a video game for the gameplay aspect, which is horrendous.
>>333823414
So I guess games where you can directly buy power are not P2W because 'no way top people use it'
Utterly stupid logic. Eve is P2W through and through because of PLEX.
And for a game that prides itself on a 'player run economy!' its even more serious of an offense because the entire economy and making money is a joke because of PLEX purchases.
>>333823531
Most are trying to experience the fucking combat portion of the game.. the part with maybe only 10y of skill training. There's still little for cross training.
I only like the political intrigue, and all the hard work people put in the game and the cool space battles.
I wouldn't play the game, but I admire it
>>333823610
room for*
>>333823678
/vg/ here, we don't want these fucks on our board. Take it back to Somethingawful and fucking say there
>>333823678
>coming in threads for games you don't have any discussion for
>posting off topic
>>333823610
You really have a huge misconception on how the game works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
>>333823678
Feel free to go back to /vg/ and make another shitposting general. Nobody here wants to discuss SJW's and the same 10 /v/core games over and over again
>>333823578
>you buy something worth gametime (and a few other things)
>you have to sell it on the market, no way to directly exchange it for ISK
>this means selling it to other players
keep screaming you've never played the game though
spoilers: if someone bought an assload of PLEX, supply and demand would make it worth less. seems you're proving >>333822406 right
this thread is filled with babbies who cant into game
eve isnt for children, come back when you grow an attention span
>>333823761
>A character skilled through 1M+ SP, specifically for a single ship, for about 4 target ships
Literally cherry picking.
>>333823830
>pick a player who knows what he's doing
>the rest of the game are mostly idiots
>cherry picking
You're only confirming the fact that playing smart means winning.
>>333823761
>20 days just to fly a specific ship, and not even fully skilled
wooow it's fucking nothing
>>333823830
Who gives a shit it's only 20 days of training, and nowdays you start with around 500k sp anyways so it's probably even less than that now
>>333823789
And? That literally changes nothing about my point which is why I didnt raise it.
All you've proven is that you dont want to admit Eve is P2W because you're too invested into a game to come to the realization now that you are a second class citizen.
>>333823815
>players who would learn the game are mostly deterred by having such awful skills and ship unlocks that they quit
>having anything to do with attention span
>>333823905
Playing smart doesn't mean winning if the character doesn't have fucking t2 mods and ammo.
>>333823931
See above.
>massive decline in numbers since PLEX came out
>CCCP still cant figure out why people are hemorrhaging from the game
On one hand im sad Eve is dying, on the other CCP had it coming.
>>333823296
It certainly has p2w elements. The real time skill training, need of game knowldege, and reliance upon others greatly mitigate those elements however.
You can buy a character and essentially buy skills now so skill training can be mitigated if its worth your money.
You don't NEED a group but it really does open a lot of doors for you early on. It also helps you learn more about the game quickly.
>>333823815
EVE a game for balding normies. Get the fuck out of here goon
How the fuck do I get into this game.
Ive played for like 3 days but all the skills are taking like 2 days to research now and it's no fun to wait around for that bullshit
>>333823954
but I don't even play the game anon.
played it for a while, learned all relevant mechanics, decided it wasn't for me.
besides
>changes nothing about my point
>mentions player run economy
>player run economy is the reason PLEX is not P2W
if everybody decided PLEX was shit from now on it would have no value besides what the game offers you for it directly
once again, keep screaming that you haven't played this game though
>>333824079
>You can buy a character
Another massive P2W feature. It shouldn't be allowed at all.
The whole skill system is pretty stupid.
>>333823985
let me guess, you never left highsec
scrub
>>333824142
at least use a proxy when you're trying to make awful bait, nobody in this thread claimed to be new yet and you've posted here before.
>>333821173
>Goons are horrible people
Everyone that plays EVE is a horrible person that should kill himself. This game was a mistake and should not exist.
>>333824149
>if everybody decided PLEX was shit from now on it would have no value besides what the game offers you for it directly
If a meteorite hit earth tomorrow we would all die
Dont pretend your hypothetical bullshit means anything, PLEX has only been increasing both in sales and price since its inception. It totally unbalances the entire game in favor of the corp/people who spend money on it and therefore makes the game P2W.
>once again, keep screaming that you haven't played this game though
I played for a year and a half, then PLEX hit and I left.
>>333823985
All I see here is you crying about the game because you have no clue how it works or how to play it
>>333823678
We already have a general there but the dumbfucks on /v/ are not welcome there
>>333824149
>but I don't even play the game anon.
>played it for a while, learned all relevant mechanics, decided it wasn't for me.
Bullshit the only people who are brainwashed enough to pretend Eve isnt P2W are people who are playing it currently. End yourself idiot. And thats coming from someone who still plays Eve.
>>333824149
It has value because it potentially replaces real money subbing with in-game. That has nothing to do with .. market standards or whatever this post is trying to claim would make it stop being purchased.
PLEX is shit. Buying characters is awful. The game is still played because of fucking Stockholm Syndrome and plausibly there being no deeper MMO.
It's still the most P2W game in existence.
>>333824339
>maybe if I claim they don't know, I'll be safe from critique
>>333824225
What the fuck are you blabbering on about. I asked a simple question and you started speaking out.
I really enjoy the premis of eve but I can't be arsed waiting days to research one thing
>>333823739
>just ignore the cancer
>>333824297
>>333824358
>>333824401
>I-I've played the game, really!
>still thinking PLEX is P2W
>>333821325
>Guys the game only requires a down deposit, a monthly fee, a shit ton of patience and imagination to be fun
>What are you all complaining about?
>>333821325
Fuck you, nigger. You know damn well that the truly amazing fights and moments are, at best, 5% of your total experience. The game is a fucking snore, and it's whether you can deal with that to get those amazing moments now and then or not.
>mfw joining a corp after 400 hours of play time only to leave 2 days later so I can go back to high sec and do wormhole relic sites in my astro
>>333824619
>a down deposit
not anymore
>a shit ton of patience and imagination to be fun
if you lack patience or imagination, i feel sorry for you, you should stick to on-rails shooters and themepark MMOs like WoW
>>333824126
get out of here test furry :DDDDDD
>>333824618
>still implying that SP and ISK aren't objective wins
Isn't baseless bullshit supposed to stay on /sci/?
>>333824839
If I lack patience why the fuck would I want to play any MMO? I play to have fun, not to play 300 hours to get to the fun part and realize that the fun part was actually shitter than the grinding.
>>333824943
>>333820338
Playing EvE right at this moment. Best game I have ever played.
>>333825019
I've had more action from an RTS.
>>333824153
I would prefer no character trading as well. I prefer that one person's time be exclusive to that players account.
The main problem in my eyes is that plex makes any skill assisting items they add to the market indirectly purchasable with cash. Which they have recently done.
I'd assume most people that would play a subscription based mmo find that distainful and unfair. I also willing to bet the skill wall is a huge turn off for new players and plays a part in a number of unsubscriptions.
If both of my assumptions are true they really have backed themselves into a wall. They have to remove one or get really creative to not increase the prevalence of p2w players.
Luckily they are one of the only, if not the only, persistent world mmo that has unreversable loss on the scale that they do. So they fulfil a very niche, dedicated fan base because of that.
Also the other mitigating factors I mentioned with the unreversable loss help mitigate the p2w features substantially.
>>333825441
"Remove one" being plex or real time skill training.
>>333825441
They backed themselves into a wall by "refining" P2W, a feature that basically the whole market has denounced.
The whole game is based on it. Good fucking luck.
>>333825067
Is that supposed to be an insult?
What is this post?
>>333823578
Aint a joke, because the ISK stays in the economy, it is just transferred from one player to another. Its not creating ISK from thin air.
>>333825827
Should I have said MOBA?
>>333825935
For a character with money vs. a character without, it's "created from thin air". It's opportunity, in a game that disallows both botting and any decent method of acquiring ISK or stats.
A sub MMO where stats can be purchased with real money is obviously an MMO that most are uninterested in.
>>333825067
Then stop bashing EvE and go play your RTS, you dipshit. What´s your point?
That is like saying you don´t like chocolate ice cream, but vanilla one... who cares?
>>333821325
I did nothing but small gang pvp in low and wormholes. Apparently the pinnacle of exciting content in EVE and I still found it boring as all fuck.
Your move, shill.
>>333826165
Chocoolate ice cream isn't the most deep MMO on the market. It's a video game enthusiast's interest that a game with such potential be at least fucking decent. Pretending like this real money VIP bullshit is OK because the gameplay is astounding is almost a little much.
>>333825716
The p2w mitigating factors I mentioned are sufficient enough to make the "p2wness" palpable to me. If you hold the opinion that any p2w features are unacceptable I can understand that.
I just love the depth and real loss in a large, persistent world. It creates such interesting moments of gameplay and interaction. If someone else can give me a comparable mmo experience without the p2w I would jump ship immediately.
Also, space is fucking cool.
>>333826295
It's not about "any p2w features".. the whole game is based through paying *lots* of real money for the standard MMO experience.
>>333826136
Stop responding here... and thinking at all... it hurts you and people around you..
Stats ain´t purchased with real money, but ISK. Plex is bought with real cash, but is being exchanged for ISK. The ISK is still the same, it is still present in the economy, there is no inflation in this matter.
That´s like some random guy giving new player 500mill. Whatever. It doesn´t win EvE for you.
Dipshit, go play it to make a proper long term opinion or gtfo.
The core substance of EvE makes term P2W obsolent.
>>333826283
Cool, then gtfo, you won´t be missed. Think anyone cares about your opinion?
I have no desire to persuade you. If you don´t like, you were never meant to play.
But your interest in the game, the fact that you spend time here to discuss it, shows you some level of an interest, cause u know the game rocks.
THERE IS NO REAL MONEY VIP, RETARD!
If you buy PLEX and sell it, you have cash, you can do stuff faster, but not better. If you buy skills, you can do stuf faster, but not better. You invest those skillpoint to PvP? You go null, buy some moderate ship with the ISK you got for real money and you still get raped, cause u got counterganked by two players or got rekt 1v1 cause u suck.
There is no P2W in EvE, it just lets you do things faster.
>>333826454
>it's not purchasing with real money if that money is first converted into in-game money
There are always buy orders up. It's instant. There's no "it's not status from real money", because it really is.
I want Reyni Allas-Rui to sit on my face.
>>333826670
>if you don't like, you were never meant to play
That must be why the development is adding more and more ways to get SP, as if the sole method of retaining players is the fucking skill system.
Pretty telling.
>If you buy PLEX and sell it, you have cash, you can do stuff faster, but not better.
Stats make that invalid, because they literally make the ship perform better (for everything: DPS, HP, speed, mobility..).
>>333826898
But WHAT IS YOUR POINT?
You are not buying ISK from CCP from nothing.
YOU ARE BUYING ISK from a real player that had to earned it from the economy.
You give him PLEX and he gives you HIS money.
I don´t really see a problem here. It´s just an exchange. It would be a same thing, if he just gave 1bill to you. Its just a transfer of fluid ISK.
>>333827173
Why is it relevant where the ISK or stats come from? Time is money. The amount of options to play is equivalent to how much interest the game can produce. There are limited options until real money is spent, at least by some party.
So real money = fun. And status. And depth to a sub game.
That's the point, and the game would be better without SP.
>>333827173
What's the problem with buying isk from a chinese farmer that has been botting all week? You're not making isk out of thin air, another player is just giving it to you.
>>333826454
Not him, but are you arguing that buying plex/characters/skill injectors indirectly with cash don't allow people to access more content more effectively than those who dont ? I just want to make sure I'm understanding you.
>>333827031
Why are you so dumb? :(
What is this P2W hystery about EvE?
There is no P2W in EvE.
P2W can be applied to team based game or competitive 1v1 games, where core gameplay and rules are still the same throughout all the matches and tries to keep the game fair in terms of player skill.
In EvE, there is nothing like that. You are not forced to go to Null. You are not forced to mine.
You CHOOSE what you do.
Some idiot in Null that has bought SP and ISK cannot endanger you. And the same idiot will not propably endanger anyone in Null, because there is always someone better. Someone who played the game longer, has more skills, knows how to play.
You can not apply P2W to EvE ffs. Get it thru your fkin skull already..
>>333827297
He still had to work to make that ISK, that takes time. Also, botting is prohibited and will propably soon get him banned.
So there was substantial amount of mining to make 1bill to buy PLEX at the first place.
>>333827427
>Guys, it's not a P2W competitive game because I can choose to stay on this side of the map
So, it's fun just staying docked in hisec now?
>>333827345
It simply makes your progress faster. You can access any content in the game even as a new player, only the tier level of the content varies.
You are not buying some magical "win", just time, making things faster for you.
>>333827624
Being only able to access t1 ships isn't "any content in the game", not to mention all the non-combat gameplay that obviously requires SP.
>>333827290
But that is retarded.
New player has access to all content. Only the tiers differ. It uses MMORPG model for that in a way. WoW, for example, you can do low lvl pvp, low level pve, you have access to all the gameplay content, only the tier differs.
In EvE, you can mine right away, only the tier differs, so you can´t mine best ores right away, dont have best mine ship right away.
You can do PvP right away, but your fighting chance will be lower, cause your tier is lower and in EvE PvP can occur between any tier, not like wow staged PvP.
You can do market trading right away, Industry.. Just not the highest tier. That is the difference between high lvl player and low lvl player in any mmo. In WoW, you can buy insta level too, it doesn´t mean it pay to win. IT DOESNT ENABLE YOU TO WIN ANYTHING, it just lets you compete in higher tier.
anyone got a good video of someone who knows his shit exploring?
>>333827732
But that is like any other MMORPG, you dumb retard, jesus.
>>333827615
Again, like any other MMORPG.
Don't wanna deal with that monthly fee and CCP killed the greatest MMO of all time before its time
>>333826401
You bring up a good point and I agree.
Keep in mid that those who actually play the game still have a considerable advantage in that they are going to just know more about the game and have a better social network within the game.
The effect is much more impactful in a game with the depth and amount of content that this game has.
You did make me realize how geared toward purchasing plex the model is.
Unfortunately plex us still an unfair advantage I could do without.
>>333828190
Tell me how they killed it.
Bet my money, you didn´t even play it.
>>333828278
Rly?
What impact has a guy who bought some PLEX and sold it for 20bill has on the game with tens of thousands of veteran players with billions?
>>333828317
>One manager couldn't answer questions on gameplay or focus. I remember him standing over the shoulder of a programmer putting his finger to his lips and saying 'No - make it more... psssshhhh’
World of Darkness was an infant left to die
>>333828190
Are you talking about WoD?
Yeah that shit was terribly handled by CCP but that's got nothing to do with Eve.
>>333827940
WoW doesn't have t2 and t3 outfits camping gates to necessary systems. WoW doesn't take 20y to get to max level (not even 2 months). The WoW contrast is obviously silly.
>the player can't compete to win, but that's no suggestion that paying real money so that they CAN play to win is P2W
>>333828013
>>333828097
See above.
>>333828423
He can purchase 4 specialized characters for his buddies. That is a huge benefit over any other player without the option of paying money.
>>333828430
>World of Darkness was an infant left to die
So that's why it got my dick rock hard.
>>333828430
Ok, fair enough.
But that has nothing to do with EvE though.
That is just you being mad at CCP for cancelling a game.
Also you don´t have to pay monthly, if you know what you are doing, you can make enough money from exploring even as a new player to buy PLEX.
>>333828709
>muh $.25/hr
>>333827624
Wouldn't you say that progressing faster for real world cash is an inherently unfair advantage to those who don't spend cash?
>>333828614
Stop with the 20y meme. If you specialize your character you can fly competently within a few months easily.
>>333828782
>within a few months
For the gaming market, that's just as ludicrous. WoW comes with a free 100 for pre-purchasing the next xpac now, plus the free 90 from the current xpac.
>Stop with the 20y meme
It's true. It's also, unfortunately for the game, about the first experience every player has with it. It's the defining feature, about figuring out how much it takes to get that t2 or whatever, making the "sandbox" idea unattainable. Why play, then?
>>333828614
Shut the fuck up already.
Vanilla WoW had high levels camping quest lowbie sites and killing them for fun.
25 years is for ALL THE SKILLS to max up. To be any good in pvp it might take half a year. Even getting to lvl 60 in vanilla took longer.
There is no P2W in EvE.
IT JUST LETS YOU DO STUFF FASTER!
There are thousands of players that worked hard to get where they are. They didn´t pay for it. They actually took the time and effort to get where they are. If you pay money, it just lets you get FASTER where they are. It won´t magically let you win anything.
4 specialized character buddies? What the fuck? That is again, buying something some other player had to invest time in, it just lets you get there faster.
With your logic, any player that playes the game for several years is Pay to win.
>>333828779
Is it unfair advantage for WoW players to buy instant 90 level vs the players that have to work for it?
Advantage in terms of time, but not Pay2Win.
PAY 2 WIN IN EVE WOULD BE AN UBER STRONG SHIP IN STORE ONLY FOR REAL MONEY. PERIOD.
>>333828423
I'm not discussing impact he's making in the game world. I'm discussing the inherent unfair advantage he has he gains over someone in his exact same situation who hasn't purchased plex for cash then sold it for isk.
I firmly belive, like most on this board, advantages in games should be gained through play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXHV2MMZmQw
I want her to analyze my protein stains.
>>333820338
>In other news, the biggest war apparently ever is happening. Why not play?
Tell me more about this war and I might play
>>333828985
>It's true
Technically,yes. But you can't pilot 4 different titans at the same time now can you?
>>333829281
Is it unfair advantage for WoW players to buy instant 90 level vs the players that have to work for it?
Advantage in terms of time, but not Pay2Win.
PAY 2 WIN IN EVE WOULD BE AN UBER STRONG SHIP IN STORE ONLY FOR REAL MONEY. PERIOD.
............
>>333829370
the biggest most boring alliance is finally getting their shit stomped in
even people who never even did PvP smell blood and are joining in to wreck their shit
that very alliance is now struggling to keep their shit in order and retain their advantage but they're marked for death
players have had enough of their boring antics and are removing them from play
>>333829121
>Vanilla WoW had high levels camping lowbies for fun
OK, but it didn't take the lowbies months to get out of lowbie status. If they played enough, it could be weeks at most. Contrast that to EVE, where speccing decently into just a frigate could take months.. The 20y skill train isn't a meme, because everything in the game is based on that much training. It's not as if there's so much to do that combat can be finished in a month. Combat is half the game.
>There are thousands of players that worked hard to get where they are. They didn´t pay for it.
Every SP in the game has been payed for with real money.
Buying status is buying wins, especially if that status is a group of buddies with lots of skill points (stats and counter options).
>>333829236
>>333829460
The contrast of a lvl 90 in WoW and a max level frigate pilot or something is 15hrs. of real play vs. 15+ months of offline training.
See above.
>>333829415
Same.
>>333829460
>advantage in terms of time
Literally what EVE offers with PLEX.
>but not Pay2Win
glad you agree.
>>333829370
Nothing.
Two giants are getting killed but it wont change anything. A month from now Eve will be back to its same old stalemate with absolutely nothing interesting going on.
>>333829534
>max level frigate pilot
>15+ months of offline training
Just stop fucking posting, you clearly don't know shit about eve.
>>333829517
The only way to remove someone from play is to somehow convince them to stop logging in. If getting their alliance disbanded and losing all of their sov wasn't enough to do it, I don't see how it's going to be different THIS time.
>>333829694
The players can stay but the big uniting entity they formed is being removed. Probably a big amount of Goons can't adapt to any other playstyle though so they'll actually stop logging in.
To be fair, Eve is more than spreadsheets. It's also a highly complex chat window where the player can engage in corporate politics, trust scams and other social engineering. It's just a shame that spreadsheet management and chat window antics are 99% of the game and the actual space gameplay is boring crap.
>>333829694
>convince them to stop logging in.
Flipping sides doesn't count now?
They lost their 2nd best pvp alliance.
>>333829534
Out of lowbie status in Vanilla, could too half a year-1 year.. then grinding PvE, PvP sets. Another year.
To be any competitive in the average null pvp, you ll need like half a year in EvE.
You didn´t even play the game for fuck sake.
Buying wins? The fuck? If you already have a group of buddies with high SP, you don´t need buying anything.
YOU HAVE JUST BOUGHT TIME IT WOULD TOOK TO BE ON SAME LEVEL.
You retard just don´t realize that EvE at its core is AN UNFAIR GAME. Just like a real world.
It tries to simulate situations that occur when people are left to do as they plase.
Contrast of 90 lvl WoW. Still takes ages to farm for sets, for Arena sets even longer.
Stop embarassing yourself. Its like you have deep urge to just shit on EvE and running outta any substance.
>>333828709
Yeah I'm mad at CCP, EvE is a fine game and all but I just can't get myself to play it again because of CCP. I do know about the PLEX thing, I'm just too much of a casul to be honest fampai.
>>333829858
I don't really care about people who do exactly the same thing they did before, but under a different flag. They sure as hell don't count as being removed from play.
>>333829236
I think we just got to the bottom of the argument. I define p2w as ANY game advantage gained through monetary means, directly or indirectly. I agree that time advantage is is less offensive than most other advantages. But it's still an unfair advantage.
>>333829958
You can ignore it all you want but it's a huge blow to the goons. These 2 entities now hate eachother.
Why would they have to be "removed from play"? Sounds like a great way for eve to die.
>>333830062
Rekt.
Get your facts straight then, kid.
You define it wrong. Glad you have admitted it.
It is not P2W.
It is P2ToQuickerProgress.
>>333821173
>goons are horrible people
And 4channers are the cream of the crop, right?
Faggot.
>>333830615
Hes right though.
Shittani faggot is a joke with an IQ lower than his shoe size.
Cant wait to see Poopswamp Fecalnation burn.
>>333829637
>this new
It's about 12 months for a maxed Slicer minus some skills like max targeting, armor, laser spec, etc..
The claim was for a maxed frigate pilot, and this is just for a single frigate, not including any missile or shield skills, nor including any other faction's frigate and turret training.
Can I get a "pwnd"?
>>333830615
There's only like 75 ppl in the Eve general.
4chan doesn't really play this game anyway
>>333830062
Pay to win by it's definition means "paying for something that cannot be gained through normal play". I must admit that gaming """"""media""""""/casuals on >leddit have tried to widen the term but that doesn't mean it's changed.
>>333830719
Are implants boosts and neural remap counted in that? Cause that would like halve it.
>>333830719
>1800sp/hour
you fucking retard
>>333829694
It would be humorous, actually, if this crashed the PLEX market and used up most of the game's production resources.
Interestingly enough, the benefits of this war would be much more prevalent if SP was nonexistent.
>>333830895
that would imply he knows anything about this game
anyone saying "EVE is P2W" doesn't
>>333830719
> not even optimized attributes or including implants
> padding it with things like controlled burst 5 and other irrelevant skills
Yeah you sure got pwnd
>>333831046
..because there would be more pilots willing to engage in their playstyle, including combat, if they had the ability to fly and do anything.
>>333830719
Hahaha..
Yea, u got pwnd.. see above, fkin scrub.
>>333829831
It's just an ARPG in 3D, allowing the player to move beyond the single plane that is most (every other, apparently) ARPG. It's fun, and if the character is only playing with click-commands, there's a simple reason they're having a poor experience.
>>333829880
>Out of lowbie status in Vanilla, could too half a year-1 year
Servers like Nostalrius prove this is inaccurate. In any case, the game and market have advanced beyond leveling being perceived as interesting or sustaining content.
>If you already have a group of buddies with high SP, you don´t need buying anything.
Obviously. That's the reason the statement was fresh players with money vs. those without.
Check out the claimed retention rates and how the dev company is patching SP. There's obviously an issue.
>>333831305
It is unfair as about a player who has spent years playing the game.
It simply is not unfair, it is EvE.
Also, anyone would have to spend insane amount of real money to get on the same level as a player who plays for only a year or two.
>>333831297
Yeah, an ARPG where you replace the levels with empty space.
>>333830834
>>333830539
Oops. I'll be sure to be more careful with my use of the term in the future. Funny thing is I don't read games "media" or browse reddit. But do you guys really not see thE time advantage as unfair?
>>333831305
>>333831686
I don't read them either but I've noticed that people on 4chan used the term for more and more things and wondered what was causing it so I took a quick look and those 2 things were the reason (no scientist though, so this may be entirely wrong).
I personally do not see paying to progress faster to be unfair as it does not give a disadvantage to players who play normally.
It's actually a very common thing in most of today's popular games (WoW does this too with it's buy to max level thing).
In a game like EVE it works out well though since there's many other factors but simply time, meaning if some idiot bought his way to the top, he still wouldn't beat everyone reliably, he just has an easier way of beating other idiots.
>You were born just in time to destroy 1200 billion and raising in CFCuck assets
>You were born just in time to destroy a bunch of faggots who are lead by a man who plays the SJW card and tried to rebrand his little empire into 'the imperium' for better branding in other games and tried to scam $150,000 for a book kikestarter
>You were born just in time to watch rome fall to a rag tag group of pirates and gamblers
The greatest time to be alive.
>>333831512
You are seriously giving a free edited server as an example? Holy shit, you really running outta argument. So, you have neither played EvE or Vanilla WoW. Just shut the fuck up already.
There is no Pay2Win. Fokin get and swallow it already.
https://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-march-2016-release
Show the "SP Patching" pls.
>>333830895
>>333830969
Fresh characters come with whatever +3s take, and no.. Here it is with a remap.
Good luck getting players interested in a sub-niche for 3/4 of a year to stay subbed, and fresh players interested enough in implants to keep them through learning the game.
>>333831953
New player won´t be going for that, cause it is outta his ISK reach.
As any new WoW player don´t have gold for looms.
>>333831953
>actually optimizing his time this badly
first of all any player that does this sort of optimizing will use +4s
and I forgot what the time treshold is for cybernetics V to be worth it is but it sure as fuck is close to this amount if not less
>>333831953
You're implying you are REQUIRED to have all 5's before you're allowed to undock and pvpN
You're the worst kind of shitter on this board.
HOL UPJoin All-Out!
>>333832202
Are you still all-out of ships and stations?
Git fucking gud you shitters.
>>333832202man I should really join All-Out with my wormholer which has awesome scanning and explo skillsif I ever have time and resub
>>333820338
>Why not play?
I can't be bothered with monthly payments. I play too many other vidya to make it worth it.
>>333820338
I tired playing it and got board of just navigation through lists and right click warping for 15 mins just to do a delivery
>>333832202
>shitbase
>>333831625
And players and an econmy..
Point?
>>333831952
>increased starter SP
>skill injectors
>just announced, ratting for SP
Citadel update soon spacefreinds.
>>333831723
All players start with a huge disadvantage, to the point where what's the point of t1 guns and stuff? It's the same with fitting skills. Why play?
>>333832779
There's still a good amount of new players who stay. I'd ask them. My opinion is much too bittervet to be representative of the "why play" question for new players this day.
>>333832112
>I'm free to show where that's stated
>else, I'm a panzy implication post
>>333832065
>>333832089
It's not about the optimization. That's just what's required to fly the ship at optimal performance, a status that a *MAJORITY* of players probably have.
A player trying to experience more than a single ship won't have this level of specialization and will potentially do worse and take even more training to find something interesting.
What the ship is has absolutely no bearing on this discussion. It could be any frigate and be the same.
>>333832779
Git gud faget
Nothing's more fun than starting a fresh alt and baiting retards in a thrasher.
How many stations are there in 0.0 now? when iquit it was getting crowded. Now there must be one in every other system.
>>333831548
>>333831723
I would argue that giving people who spend more money a time advantage still puts those that don't at a time DISADVANTAGE in respect to those other players. I'm not comfortable with that kind of advantage gained through money. You should have to actually PLAY a game. Just call me old school.
>>333831723
I agree that the other factors lessen the time advantage. I was the guy 100 post ago talking about mitigating factors in conjunction with unrecoverable loss in a persistent world >>333824079 that's me
>>333831548
How much it ACUTALLY cost is also a huge mitigating factor in the prevalence of P2notplaythegame
>>333833242
0/10, no contribution made
>>333833242
r eve is shit, but the alternatives are worse.
Eve is a disgusting gerontocracy. Those old people who don't even undock nor run the game nor sub should be be genocided.
>>333833904
damn bitter vets
they ruined eve
>>333832621
>ratting for SP
no they didnt
The only thing I know about Eve is that sometimes a lot of legit autists lose a lot of money
>>333834082
Yes they did.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=476516
Because the combat is boring and uninteresting
There's minimal input on the game, and every fight is decided by player numbers or previous equipment
There's not a lot to do in combat
And every facet of the game is unfinished since they fucked up with WoD
>>333820338
wow fellow youth, you sure seem just like me!
>>333834791
>There's minimal input on the game
>There's not a lot to do in combat
>Transversal managment
>Tracking managment
>Signature managment
>Ammo managment
>Capacitor managment
>Sheild/Armor and hull managment
>Overheating managment
>Speed managment
>Booster managment
>Range/positioning managment
>Scanning managment both probe and directional when hunting and looking out for enemy reinforcements
>When in a fleet you need to manage positoning of logistics, fleet boosts, damage boosts, tackle positioning etc
You either like CoD style twitch shooters or have no idea how to ~elite pvp.
>>333835651>elite pvp
>>333835651
>EVE
>Hardcore PVP
Dark Souls has hardcore PVP. Being good at reading spreadsheets isn't competitive PVP. It's being a geeking nerd.
>>333835651
Most of this shit is present in any decent game, it's just a fancy list.
>>333835931
t. millennials
>>333836087
t. faggot balding normies
Get the fuck off /v/ and go back to somethingawful you sub human piece of shit.
>muh dark souls
>fuck off normie
Wew lad.
>>333835651
>>There's not a lot to do in combat
There is a lot to do in combat, this isn't any of them
>>Transversal managment
>>Tracking managment
These are the same thing, the formula goes hand in hand with tracking and transversal speed
>>Signature managment
theres no way to "manage" this beyond implants/boosters
>>Ammo managment
you don't need to manage this beyond adjusting for ranged ammo like on amarr laser ships or changing ammo for direct damage type like on missiles or projectile weapons.
>>Capacitor managment
This actually is something you have to manage often
>>Sheild/Armor and hull managment
You don't have to manage this if you're not active tanking, even then its not really a management at all just "press button to heal"
>>Overheating managment
yup, don't wanna burn that out.
>>Speed managment
kind of, speed is self explanatory but direction is more important
>>Booster managment
no need
>>Range/positioning managment
goes into "speed management" which is really directional management
>>Scanning managment both probe and directional when hunting and looking out for enemy reinforcements
just bind the D-scan to space bar and you're done.
>>When in a fleet you need to manage positoning of logistics, fleet boosts, damage boosts, tackle positioning etc
The logi will command themselves, don't micromanage them. Boosters you just set up once and forget about them. There are no such thing as damage boosts. Tackle positions will take care of themselves, don't micromanage them
>>333835651
Holy shit that's some deconstruction of basic GAMEPLAY in a video game
I can do it too, i'm eating an orange right now
You can
>bite the fucking orange
>peel it
>better off peel it before biting it
>it's fucking supercharged with C vitamin
>it has seed micromanagement, sometimes you have to decide if you eat them of not
>it's delicious
>juice management
>knife management
>skin micromanagement and positioning
>Best color
Eat a fucking orange
>>333830723
With the amount of retards who can't do basic arithmetic and multiplication in /eog/ they clearly know fuckall about the game
>>333836769
RESISTANCE
PENETRATION
>>333830719
You don't need max skills to be a good slicer pilot. A slicer is good on its own because of its insane optimal range bonus and it has the speed/agility of a frigate
Remember that these skills will apply to EVERY gun ship you fly, so when you say "this is one year for just ONE frigate" know that all those gunnery skills, surgical strike, rapid firing, trajectory analysis all apply to ALL gun ships. Meaning your cruisers, battlecruisers, battleships, and dreadnoughts will ALL benefit from these skills.
The only thing you'd need to change race is a change in weapon skill and ship race skill, which are 1 week a piece to get to level 5 which might not even be needed anyway.
This list is excessive and 90% of these skills helps some 75% of the other ships in the game
>>333830719
>people think THIS is good gameplay
>>333837174
>people who don't know fuckall about the game think this is gameplay
>>333837174
Why does a post criticizing the offline progression system, including a picture of an out-of-game tool, seem like discussion about gameplay?
>>333836451
10/10
Oranges OP.
>>333837656
IMO the offline progression is a double edged sword
1. my skills train passively, even offline so I don't have to blow endless hours grinding and waiting for skills
2. my skills train passively and I can't really grind to get more skills more quickly
