Is Kickstarting a game inherently a bad way to have a game developed, or have there just been failures due to incompetence?
Mainly just incompetence.
>>333806653
It's a bad way for someone that doens't know how to manage money or has eyes too big for their belly so to speak.
A good number have games have been made through it, it's just /v/ focuses on the failures because talking successes isn't very interesting.
>>333806653
>>333806716
How about Kickstarting something actually worth a shit, like a cure for herpes?
There are literally thousands of starving crazy scientists who need funding.
>>333806810
cool video game
>>333806653
nah there have been plenty of good games to come from kickstarter that probably would never have seen the light of day without it, such as the banner saga and expeditions conquistador
there are also games that probably would have been developed without it but may not have been as good, like shovel knight
the problem is there have been so many disappointments that I'm wary to give my shekels to anyone through it anymore
>>333806653
If you're a competent game dev and you really care about your project, you'd fund it yourself, with your own money, which means kickstarter is really only used by con artists.
>>333806653
There's usually a reason why they choose to kickstart it rather than more traditional channels. Rarely are those reasons positive.
>>333806653
It's pretty bad. The big thing about Kickstarter is that the backers have no actual control over the development process. Hell, they have barely any legal recourse is the creator just takes their money and runs.
The fact that the creators and investors don't sign any kind of binding legal contract means you have creators with a load of money and no oversight. Any deadlines are left imposed, as are any standards.
>>333807036
>Hell, they have barely any legal recourse is the creator just takes their money and runs.
Sometime after Schafer's last thing, that is no longer the case.
>>333806953
>every game developer is a multi-millionaire
>>333806810
I read this as "literally thousands of starving crazy scientists who need fucking"
no wonder they need a cure.
>>333806965
I liked the kickstarter for the awesomenauts expansion
>the game's not making enough money from its cash shop to sustain development but it has a healthy community, so give us money so that we can keep making new characters+maps for it
fun game btw
>>333806782
Yeah, because no-one has every complimented someone's work. I mean, when do you ever hear about forums where people do nothing but talk about how much they enjoy a certain work? Fansites? Just don't exist.
>>333807208
not what I said, but ok.
>>333807203
If you get cold sores, you have herpes (HSV1), and it probably going to give you Alzheimers. It's a silent epidemic and no one gives a shit because "everyone gets whoresores tho xD"
>>333807147
I think people get a little wary when a dev does a kickstarter then goes and does another one. Like Larian with Original Sin and Sin 2.
>>333807147
I read an article a while ago about the development of the banner saga where the dev talked about how everyone on the team took out huge loans to complete the project because the kickstarter money wasn't enough
>>333807249
Oh sorry, I was commenting on your picture.
>>333807203
>literally thousands of starving crazy scientists who need fucking
that's pretty much the plot of hardcore henry btw
>>333806653
Kickstarter made me realize how important publishers are and how without them developers would never get shit done.
>>333807468
No, it's how important competent bosses are, publishers make just as many stupid decisions.
>>333806653
>Is Kickstarting a game inherently a bad way to have a game developed
Yes
These faggots should just get a fucking bank loan or something. The fact that they don't only shows initial incompetence on their own part. It shows that even they have doubts that their game will sell enough to cover the costs of development (or ever even turn a profit)
if you guys ever fell for this, I'm sorry for you. You got duped.
>>333807598
Having a shitty publisher is still better than no publisher at all. Developers have zero motivation to get anything done on their own time.
>>333807760
>These faggots should just get a fucking bank loan or something.
Do you realize how retarded you sound? Why would you get a bank loan that you have to pay back when you potentially can get funding where the only thing you have to give is a product?
>>333808019
It's called making an investment. Businesses used to do it all the time
now all these indie hipster faggots come out looking for a handout. It's disgusting
>>333808095
Donations are not handouts if you're using them to fund a product that people opt in to fund.
>>333807304
But larian released a good product (arguably the best kickstarted game) and still support it, enhanced edition was free to original owners and added a literal shit ton of awesome shit.
Original sin 2 looks great as well
>>333806810
9 out of 10 people have herpes retard
Its just very few people have worse symptoms to it
>>333808264
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4019841/
Enjoy Senility (TM)
>>333808180
>Donations are not handouts
So when do the donors make their money back?
>>333808454
This used to be called a "stock" and you bought "shares" of a "company' and were paid a "dividend."
But that was a long time ago.
>>333808454
They would be handouts if nothing was expected to be gotten from the ones being given the donations
>>333808454
They get a game
>>333808572
hopefully
Plenty of great games have come out from Kickstarter. FTL immediately comes to mind.
>>333807147
>you need millions and millions of dollars to make a video game
Look at the video games that kickstarter has made. They're all pixel shit indie games, side scrollers, platformers, and visual novels, and most of them are crap anyway. None of these games should cost a million dollars to make.
>>333806653
is this the thread when anyone disagree with you is a shill?
>>333810216
"To the [amateur] the thing is the end, while to the professional as such it is the means [to money]; and only he who is directly interested in a thing, and occupies himself with it from love of it, will pursue it with entire seriousness. It is from such as these, and not from wage-earners, that the greatest things have always come."
>>333806653
incompetence and reality not meeting expectations in the case of "big budget" projects funding nothing more than an idea, there have been plenty of low key kickstarter successes though
Plenty of kickstarters have worked out all right. Death to publishers.
>>333810216
Stop posting this faggot, hes not worth the MB's hes pictured in
>>333810281
idk, are you disagreeing with me?
>>333806653
Because incompetence, high expectation and ambition, and scam. Notice how the successful KS are the one that almost finished the product by the time they made the KS.
>>333806653
It's an inherently bad model because actual accountability to investors is what resulted in good games being produced.
Every single good Nintendo game of the 80s and 90s. Do you know what made them so good?
The idea that Yamauchi would hire the Yakuza to kill you if you screwed up.
Problem A: Customer has to buy product based on promises rather than actual quality of the product.
Problem B: Creater chooses kickstarter because his project plan was so bad that couldn't convince any actual publisher or investor to believe in the project.
Kickstarter backer has no insight into this shitty project plan.
Problem C: Customer has no way of holding backer accountable if project isn't going the way that was promised.
Problem D: lol I'm bankrupt, who are you going to sue for your money?
>>333811826
To be fair, KS isn't an investment but a charity.
But people, both the creator and backers, still pretend it that it's an investment system
>>333807208
You do realize you're on fucking /v/, right?
It is bad because backers are fucking retarded and just as bad as publishers.
>>333806653
As much shit as kickstarter gets, there are also a lot of cases where we got insanely good games that would've never seen the light of day without it.
>inb4 pixeltrash
Seriously you guys should try it. So fucking good.
>>333806653
>Brother is making game.
>It's good.
>When it's done, we're gonna put it on kickstarter.
>We're just going to release an incomplete demo to backers and shit.
>Pocket the money, because money is cool.
If we get lucky, he'll convince Reddit to throw their money at it, and we'll spend some on getting PR.
But seriously, it's a Game Maker project. If we make any money, I'll laugh my arse off.
>>333812686
The devs thank Phil Fish, Anita Sarkesian and Zoe Quinn in the credits.
No thank you.
>>333812686
any indie dev worth his salt would finance a 2D game himself.
Entitled shitbags don't deserver to own a company if they won't take risks.
>>333812945
It offers more possibilities to make a game much better than people are able to produce without any budget.
Most of the time these people are asking for around 30.000$ which is actually reasonable.
>>333812770
but what does that matter when the devs actually made a game that wasn't a hand-holding experience or a walking simulator or a watch avi footage simulator?
>>333813394
The fact that they think those people are worth the time or day means they don't deserve my money
>>333813142
Go to a bank, take a loan, take the risk yourself.
If you think the consumers should take the risk for you, you do not deserver to run a company.
>>333813497
You know, there's basically no risk at all in asking for funds while you risk financial collapse when your shit goes wrong.
I get that developer should stand behind their product with good faith but there's really nothing wrong with asking if people want this and if yes, if they're willing to add a bit to the funds. Not like these 5 dollars would ruin anyone.
If the game ends up being good everybody wins, if not the money "lost" is an abysmal amount.
Project Phoenix
PROJECT PHOENIX
FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
>>333813813
But then there's literally no incentive to release a quality product.
Kickstarter removes all sense of accountability.
Insurgency
Divinity Original Sin
Wasteland 2
Shadowrun Chronicles
Shadowrun Hong Kong
Pillars of Eternity
The Bard's Tale 4
Torment
Hard West
Kingdom Come Deliverance
HuniePop
Contagion
The Long Dark
Gods Will Be Watching
Satellite Reign
Frontiers
Among the Sleep
Dreamfall Chapters
Elite Dangerous
Shards Online
The Repopulation
Chivalry Medieval Warfare
Xenonauts
Grim Dawn
Republique
The Banner Saga
Guns of Icarus Online
Octodad Dadliest CatchStar Citizen
Crowfall
Shroud of the Avatar
What is this list? Why are you listing a bunch of awesome crowdfunded games? Oh, it's a list of games I personally backed on Kickstarter because I know to do my research and I haven't been burned once.
Pic related, use this when using Kickstarter.
>>333813813
The consumer is taking the risk. He is paying for a product that has a high chance of not being what he expected or not being released at all with effectively no chance of a refund.
The risk of running a business is moved from the company owner, who will make all the profits, to the consumers. This is not how this industry should run. If you think it is, then please kill yourself.
>>333813431
petty
>>333813930
Literally the only good game you listed was The Banner Saga.
Everything else is mediocre or shit.
>>333807760
Bank loans where I live requires 20% of the loan, and no serious bank would ever loan money to make a video game as there is nothing to get back if all fails.
>>333813930
Very first game on your list wasn't crowd funded, but the dev made the game anyway.
Pretty sure that makes your entire point invalid.
>>333812945
>I have no idea how game development works, the post
>>333813921
The retard just keeps posting!
If you had any, ANY fucking experience with the game development, you'd know that this isn't a line of work you enter for the money. It's a line of work that is, for the most part, driven by passion. Game devs generally does not get much money at all, it's hard work and usually involves working even after.
It'd be much easier work and earn you more money if you did anything else but game development.
Which is why a large majority of kickstarter games actually do see released and the ones that doesn't tend to be a result of inexperience or assholes, like with the Ant simulator dev who had his so called "Friends" for several years burn up all the money on booze and hookers.
>>333813930
Honestly, most of those are complete shit.
Pretty much every one knows the only good game to come out of Kickstarter was FTL, and that game was complete before the Kickstarter even happened - they just needed money for distribution and licensing, and got enough for a bit of extra content and music.
>>333814172
I'd rather live in a world where schmucks get ripped off and I get rewarded for being a smart consumer than not have these games exist (and trust me, some of this shit wouldn't exist if you had money men involved, especially in their current niche state)
You faggots always shit on publishers for trying to appeal to everyone, and you want to get investors involved in these smaller projects? They'll do the same thing
>>333814327
They got external investors from the attention Insurgency got from the Kickstarter. It worked to their favor.
>>333812945
You know, it's funny, 2D is notoriously the "go to indie thing" but it's cheaper to make a good looking 3D game than to commission your own art assets.
>>333813921
I don't get why you demand that people should risk financial ruin when there's no reason to do so. I also believe that passion for the game is a much better driving force than the nagging fear of having your existencial basis removed.
>>333814172
I agree, it is not. But this applies more to companies than to people who have to build up their name through quality products first. There is a lot of scammy shit going on with Kickstarter but for people getting 'started' - like the name implies - it's great.
Also: You're funding an idea, not a finished product. It's definitely not the same than going to the local store and pick up a game, but many people seem to think it is.
>>333814354
>you'd know that this isn't a line of work you enter for the money.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/221533/Game_Developer_Salary_Survey_2014_The_results_are_in.php
"In 2013, salaried game developers in the U.S. made an average of $83,060 last year"
"programmers ($93,251)"
It's not amazing money, but it's not bad. It's perfectly fine to expect a decent paycheck if you're a decent developer or programmer.
The only people who shouldn't enter it expecting decent money are shitty developers.
>>333814472
>You're funding an idea, not a finished product.
You can only kickstarter a game by offering the finished game as a pledge reward. This is nothing else than early preorders with a lolnorefunds clause
>>333806653
Its dumb you better of puttin your faith in jesus cause at least that way you may be able to score a nice Christian honey whi hopefully has mildly lose morals and does and enjoys anal
Inafune really tainted KS for big devs/guys that left big companies forever isn't it?
>>333814634
Iga might remove some of that negativity if Bloodstained turns out good
>>333814634
if a big name in the industry is asking you for money because he can't get funding another way, then just walk away. Something is fishy about the project.
>>333814563
Those salaries are coming from soul sucking corporations, you're not accounting for the people like me who used to work at a giant company, burnt out and left to do my own thing.
There's a lot of us, and why should we get external investors who push their profit motive onto my project if the fans are willing to do it themselves?
>>333814740
>"evil" men want to earn money for their risk taking
>better ask dumb men to give me money for free
10/10 entitled millennial
>>333814563
You do realize that includes over-time that's generally +12 hours. Also indies made this "Non-salaried solo independent game developers made an average of $11,812"
>>333814563
Forgot the other important part of information: Median household income
Even if you live in San Fran, good game devs are compensated fairly.
You won't be fucking RICH, but you'll be living comfortably so long as you don't suck at your job.
>>333814853
I'm not getting money for free.I'm delivering the product I promised.
>>333814854
>implying no other hazardless occupation has overtime
>implying indie developers are actually good and worth compensation
>>333806653
Hm, well, a lot of it has to do with incentives, stretch goals, time, manpower, and budget, Anon.
Take Hyper Light Drifter, for example. To encourage people to donate and reward their backers, they promised to add a number of features to their game after getting x amount of money.
This sounds good in theory, but some of the features that they had promised to add in this way proved to be far beyond their abilities, and ended up consuming a lot of time and money without ever being implemented (coop, etc.). Plus, the more of these features that they promise to tack on to their game, the longer the game must remain in development. That means that the money you were given must be stretched farther or supplemented to accommodate these extra delays.
It's just that game development is an enormously time consuming task and a lot to ask a neonate to do. You're counting on a developer, artist, or ideas guy to have the financial and human resources expertise to make this all work.
>>333814593
And the game in question has to just start development, what the fuck do you expect from the developers ? To finish a game before they even started on it ? Of course there will be changes, that's been the case in almost all game developments. Doesn't change that you fund an idea to back up the developers. If the idea interests you, back it, if not, don't. If you like the idea enough to throw 50-10.000 bucks on it, do it. But don't hold the developers accountable for your inability to manage your own money.
>>333814998
>0 interest 0 risk money
>not free
Kickstarter was a mistake
>>333814740
>you're not accounting for the people like me who used to work at a giant company, burnt out and left to do my own thing
I am.
It's just that you wouldn't have gotten burnt out if you were really good at your job. And on the very, very, very off chance that WAS the employer and not yourself, you should have had no problem getting a job at another company who's actually willing to pay you decently.
>>333806653
both.
>>333815085
>don't hold the developers accountable
you'd like that, don't you?
>>333815085
>devs promise one thing
>deliver something else entirely
>not entitled to a refund
Literally no other business practice in the world could get away with this. How far up the shitter do you take it?
>>333815174
You've clearly never worked a second in the game industry let alone tried googling anything about it.
>>333815052
Every job has overtime, but that overtime is usually temporary and not +6 months.
>>333814740
You're not "entitled" to fucking money, you prick. If you can't cut it at a 9-5, then guess what? It's your time to die.
Don't scam people to rationalize your laziness and incompetence.
>>333815126
My reputation at risk is far worse than paying a couple thousand in interest and having money man interfere with my creative vision.
>>333815336
This. The games industry is hell unless you're in it for yourself. The only studio I've enjoyed working for is CDPR (but that's because they understand why the games industry is cancerous)
>>333814720
I hope so KS si actually a good idea for anyone, but sadly it's abused by retards, like everything else
>>333815553
You know Philip?
>>333814998
>>333814740
There's far too little accountability, and often far too little experience.
Kickstarter campaigns (not Kickstarter itself) usually lure people into thinking that it's the same as pre-ordering a game but you, the paying customer, gets to have a bit of a say in how it's made if you pay enough.
What the Kickstarter campaigns usually fail to mention is that you're working with an undersized staff, that you often have no one with any sizable legal experience, usually have little to no experience with project budget management, often have the lead developer as the project manager, and that there's little to no recompense if your the project fails.
Most Vidya Kickstarters are just idea guys who have a coding friend, and then they get a group together who go "this sounds cool". They see their idea, and want the coding guy to code it, and the music guy to make music, and the artist to draw stuff. They don't see the budget, or the timeline, or the "sponsors", just their idea - which has made for the vast majority of these to be moderate to complete failures.
The system itself is inherently bad in that it not only allows these things but it actively encourages them - great things can be made with Kickstarter, but those are far and few in between and end up being exceptions that just prove the rule.
It's not kickstarter's fault that people are too retarded to scrutinize a project before throwing money at it.
If there aren't any known people with some previous accomplishments attached or if the project isn't being worked on already with something tangible to show off you obviously shouldn't back it.
>>333815457
I've worked on Metro, I've worked on Saboteur and I've worked on The Witcher 3 and now I'm doing my own thing. I'm not working a 9-5, I'm working a 12am-3pm shift because I'm busting my ass since I am held to no one's expectations except my own. I have a fantastic work ethic and I would compare my project to any of the projects I've backed here. I would be an example of a project you should back.
>>333813930
I would rather live in a world with Kickstarter than one without it. If you can't see the value in Kickstarter through the list of games I posted (that would probably not exist in their current forms if it weren't for crowdfunding), then I honestly hope the scene dies and you get another 5 years of generic brown shit cover shooters.
Sometimes it requires something good to be taken away for you to appreciate and understand what you have. Even if you're not crowdfunding, if you've played a single one of those games, you have benefited from it.
>>333815747
You should never back a project because someone "famous" is working on it, you should back a project if they have a playable demo and a plan worked out for the development.
>>333815553
Anyone running a business has to put his reputation on the line no matter where the funding is from.
If you can't take risks you shouldn't complain about your wage.
>>333815248
Read the full sentence anon otherwise you're just shitposting.
>>333815289
Then you know which dev's you won't trust anymore. Honestly if what they deliver is scammy and shit they won't get a foothold in the gaming industry anyway. If it's just you that's unsatisfied, well sucks for only you. Generally what I say still holds up true, you're backing the developers because of their idea/vision if you like it enough, you're entrusting your finances to them because of good faith that something you'd want comes out of it. You don 'buy' their product, if you want to do that you'd have to wait until what they're working on is actually finished.
This just seems like a misconception many people have. That's why I said it's great for people who want to get started in the industry. Kickstarter isn't inherently bad, but abusable like almost everything in this world.
>>333815775
>I would be an example of a project you should back.
Shilling without even naming the game.
>>333815747
>Kickstarter makes 5% of every transaction
>Doesn't even provide support if a project fails
Those are the actual scam artists
>>333815782
This. I have one hell of a portfolio but I certainly wouldn't approach Kickstarter without a demonstration and a budget. That's unethical.
>>333815813
I'm not complaining about my wage. I don't know where you're getting that. I've been working without pay for a year to get a AAA-worthy prototype going before I approach the customers.
Thanks to my previous work, I am in the luxurious situation where I can afford to work without pay for a year.
>>333815775
I don't play indie shit, because they're not trying to advance the industry. Literally they're all just jerking off to our childhood and trying to make money off of it.
And way to set up a false dichotomy. "If you don't like indie pixelshit walking sims, you must therefore like brown and bloom covershooters." Yeah, because there's nothing in between, right?
Fuck you, and choke on a dick. Like I said: if you're too pathetic and incompetent to get an actual job, working for actual wages, and earning money instead of begging for it from strangers, then guess what? It's just your time to die.
>>333815782
I'm not talking about fame, you moron.
I'm talking about people who can actually show proof they have experience and who put their reputations on the line.
>>333813431
Jesus
Robert Frost wrote some of the most significant poetry of the past century. He was also a complete and total asshole, who was known in his youth to chase his retarded sister around with a rifle so she would leave him the fuck alone. But that doesn't change a thing about his poetry.
Michael Jackson was one of the greatest stage performers of all time. He also probably fucked children.
Freddy Mercury was a faggot.
You separate the artist from their work, and judge the two separately. Otherwise, you're not allowed to enjoy anything.
>>333815909
I have nothing to shill yet. I'm not approaching my customers for another three months at least. My customers deserve a playable, awesome demo of the product they're putting their money into.
Again, I would be an example of Kickstarter done right. There have been plenty of exceptions to the "Kickstarter sucks" meme and as I said before, if you've played a single one of those games listed above, you have benefited from it.
I do not believe that Wasteland 2 would exist (in its current form) if it weren't for crowdfunding.
>>333816035
What fucking game listed in this
>>333813930
is a "indie walking sim". Those games were objectively received well by critics and by the users so I don't get what the fuck you're on about. Stop trying so hard to fit in /r/gaming
There's nothing wrong with crowdfunding.
Don't give your money to projects made by amateurs who have no portfolio and haven't shown they know how to manage a budget.
I've donated a few times and been happy with the results.
>>333815912
>Doesn't even provide support if a project fails
They provide a little support. It's mostly in the way of directing people to potential avenues to recover their money.
>>333815670
I absolutely agee this this
Videogames like other products are sold for money because there is demand for them
A lot of devs using kickstarter are inspired and may have cool ideas, but they lack the ability to produce
>>333816178
This. I've had nothing but positive experiences with projects that I researched and placed my money into.
My tastes are extremely niche and I wouldn't be playing those games if it weren't for crowdfunding.
>>333816035
You're a fucking dipshit. Self-employed developers are considered "incompetent"? I guess Daniel Vavra of Warhorse Studios is a NEET then despite raising 15 million dollars for his project.
>>333815670
I suppose I have nothing but positive things to say because I've been a smart consumer. I can't really sympathize with anyone investing into a game like Revival being developed by a team that was notoriously too incompetent to work on Star Citizen.
The biggest flaw with Kickstarter is they get their money first before they even make the product.
>get 200,000 dollars
>realize you'll never make that much selling your shitty indie platformer
>don't feel like completing it
>release half-baked shitty perma- early access game
it's FREE money. Literally free money.
>>333816158
>Known in his youth to chase his retarded sister around with a rifle so she would leave him the fuck alone.
Sounds like an absolute fuckin' LEGEND.
>>333816210
They don't actually do that. They literally tell you "we're sorry" and "we hope you continue to find new projects to get excited about in the future"
That's all they do after bagging thousands of dollars on a project.
>>333816458
That's why you back competent, decent people versus scum of the Earth trying to make a quick buck.
That money is used for the development of the game. When I did my game, I didn't take a single cent. It all went into tech licensing and paying freelance artists to do their thing.
>>333815289
Bethesda has been succesful in doing this for the past 10 years.
>>333806653
I wouldnt say its bad, it can be free advertising to a degree
it also depends on how much kickstarter actually takes from your goal. Ive never heard how much it actually takes desu
and most people really only attribute it negatively here because of alot of big projects have been more or less scams
so theres the good and the bad, I believe FTL did it, Darkest Dungeon was great and used it right, and Im excited for Yooka Laylee and am satisfied with the progress reports for what I paid/donated
shit like star citizen and the new castlevania(which im waivering on) and that FFTactics spiritual successor and the more renowned M#9 all are more or less cash grabs based on hype
>>333816778
Tell me which big projects have been scams.
>>333816697
That's because gamers excuse them on their bullshit because "LOL ITS A BETHESDA GAME" and "MODS WILL FIX IT"
Support better game devs and leave the ones that don't treat you right in the past where they belong. They don't deserve your money, or your trust.
>>333816778
Go play Star Citizen on one of those free weekends. They've delivered on their promises so far and I see no reason as to why they won't deliver on the final product. Their modules demonstrate a technical ability to accomplish what they've set out to do, and they've been relatively on schedule throughout given the change in scale.
Use kickstarter as a way to add extra content to a game that you're going to finish anyway.
Like FTL, essentially.
>>333816778
>another "WHERE IS MY UNIVERSE SIZED MMO WITH EXPERIMENTAL TECH AND A CUSTOM INFASTRUCTURE REWRITE OF CRYENGINE SUPPORTING THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE? IT'S BEEN THREE YEARS SINCE THE KICKSTARTER" post
Jesus Christ.
>>333816343
>Daniel Vavra
>Pro GamerGate
>Not a NEET
gtfo
>>333816994
>not being pro gamergate in 2016
Should've left 4chan along with your Gawker cuck faggot master
>>333816970
>kickstarter pretends game has been in development for a while already
>shows pretty graphics
>promises playable universe in less than 2 years
>3.5 years later people complain
>WHY ARE YOU SO ENTITLED?
>DIDN'T YOU KNOW OUR OWN ESTIMATES WERE BULLSHIT?
>>333816778
>and the new castlevania
We're finally starting early alpha footage of that so I have a lot of hope for it.
I don't know how he's going to hit some of the stretch goals without delaying the game but since he's already hired Armature to handle things like the handheld ports I'm guessing Iga has some sort of plan.
>>333817115
They've explained this time and time again, the initial Persistent Universe date was before they added planetary combat where you could get out of your ship and explore planets and cities and expanded the economic systems and shit
When the game gets 5-6x bigger, the target dates move back a bit, surprise fucking surprise.
SQ42 was in development, Star Citizen wasn't.
>>333817217
the dates they talk about now are just as unrealistic as the dates they stated during the kickstarter. Nobody with half a brain believes the game will be out this year or next year, but people throw money at the project anyway because they believe the lies.
Kickstarter makes more sense for kicking a game over the finish line, than the start line.
The only things I've seen from it that are good, already had the gameplay and theme solid in the prototype game before-hand....and just needed that final budget to get the game polished up and published.
It should be called KickFinisher.
Is pillars good?
>>333817217
>When the game gets 5-6x bigger, the target dates move back a bit, surprise fucking surprise.
No, this is the fucking bullshit that Kickstarter is making popular.
When they make the stretch goals, they just say "We'll add this" not "We'll add this and it will take _____ extra years". At no point in the fundraising portion does any fucking campaign ever say that stretch goals will actually increase the time spent on the fucking game.
Does every campaign do it this way? No, FTL didn't. They got their goal, got EXTRA, met all the stretch goals, and released the fuck on time. Why?
Because when you put up your fucking campaign, you're supposed to ask for fundraising for your entire vision - not half of it and then hope for extra money so that you can claim "you were only supposed to do this much originally" when you didn't meet all your goals like the fucking Hyper Light Drifter devs did with Co-op.
No stretch goal should increase time spent on the game because everything necessary to the game should be part of the initial proposal. And if, for whatever god awful reason, a campaign MUST put up a stretch goal that will lengthen time spent on the project, they need to fucking be explicit that since it's changing the scope of the game (which again, shouldn't even be a fucking thing you can do once your Kickstarter is started), it will increase the time necessary to develop the game.
>>333817430
I have a brain and I have an in depth understanding of what they're doing with these modules. I do believe SQ42 will release this year and i do believe the PU will be almost entirely playable by next year.
>>333817643
CR gave us the option of launching without planetary gameplay and we voted with our dollars that we wanted it at launch. Look and see how Elite Dangerous is doing with their "10 year plan" to be comparable to what Star Citizen'll be at launch.
Chris Roberts has been transparent about the fact that more features requires more time.
>>333817767
>I do believe SQ42 will release this year
When was the last time Roberts released on time and hasn't missed a release date by at least half a year?
Arena Commander was at least 6 months late. Planetside release date was pushed back months. Universe beta was way late. They've tried to release the fps module for over a year but always delayed it at the last minute.
When are you going to learn from history?
>>333817562
Yeah, my favorite CRPG from this CRPG revival. Other great CRPG's are Underrail and Dragonfall (both also kickstarted)
>>333816467
Dropped in to say the same thing.
>>333817767
>Chris Roberts has been transparent about the fact that more features requires more time.
Except for the fact that he promised his Kickstarter backers a 2014 release. He made literally 4 times what he asked, promised a fuck ton more shit, and didn't say anything about a pushed back release date until after the fucking campaign ended.
Even when he KNEW the stretch goals had been reached, even after the campaign had ended, he still stuck to the 2014 release date.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/posts/352301
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/posts/353251
So no, he wasn't transparent with the Kickstarter backers AT ALL during the campaign.
>>333816158
I don't really know what you're talking about or who you're referring to, but I read
>You separate the artist from their work, and judge the two separately
and I'm pretty sure you're talking about Phil Fish, either in the context of his game, or in relation to Hyper Light Drifter.
Fez is a pretty lackluster game with bad puzzles, literally no story, shitty graphics, but great music.
Hyper Light Drifter is an average game at best with fluid combat and sub-par... everything else.
