Why did game studios stop making RTS games? Is making a lot of units really that difficult? They don't even need to be as detailed as a main character of an RPG or something.
>tfw there will never be another game series like Age of Empires, Age of Mythology, Empire Earth, Rise of Nations, Battle Realms, Stronghold
they're boring
I could never get into Rise of Nations mechanics.
Why did studios stop making beatemups or rail shooters?
>>333672245
It is hard to come up with a genuine new mechanic that improves upon the genre. So all we would be getting is the same games over and over but in different IPs. Which for some reason works for other genres but not RTS.
Also the younger generations have shitty attention spans.
And Westwood got murdered.
We will get RTSs made, but they are no longer a dominant genre like they used to be.
>>333672541
>closest thing to modern beat em up is trash like god of war
Sad
>>333672245
They are complex games and don't sell well outside of brand recognition.
Because most people never actually liked rts as a genre
They liked aspects of it which now have their own dedicated genre
>>333672245
>Why did game studios stop making RTS games?
Easier just to pump out copy-paste shit like CoD and ass creed and make more money.
>>333672541
> No more rail shooters
Not true, CoD exists
>>333672404
This
Too boring for older hardcore gamers and too difficult for the casual gamers. The only ones who still pine for them are the nostalgia fags and the RTS fanbase
no one has tried to make a better aoe2 instead they have been trying to make a memecraft clone
>>333672245
Because nobody plays them anymore. The classic style, I mean.
RTS all about a bunch of generic units with a simple AI following a straight path to the enemy base while the player controls a single unit nowadays.
But really, it is basically what >>333672593 said.
Same shit happened with lots of other genres, like shumps and beatemups.
>>333672874
Shmups aren't dead at all.
>>333672245
Try Reassembly or if you want a simple RTS try Eufloria HD.
Both entertaining and both different takes on the RTS genre.
>>333672874
Everyone like basebuilding though, and you can't get the same feel of basebuilding from other games.
>>333673032
Eufloria is something I used to play while in the loo, and reassembly doesn't look like an RTS at all, you're literally one ship that you upgrade with new parts.
>>333672245
SC2 pretty much is sucking the last bit up of the rts genre. They gave it the ol' college try with Planetary Annihilation.
>>333672772
Kind of this. Take SC2.
The brood war fanbase was mad because it was too easy compared to SC2 (MBS, auto-mine, but above all, unlimited unit select).
The casual fanbase doesn't like SC2 because it's too hard. These are the people who are only capable of controlling one unit, so they'd rather play dota/lol.
You can't cater to the niche bw fanbase, you're not making a profit. But if you don't get the casuals coming in you're not gonna make anything, so you're better off just making a shitty moba instead with freemium crap to jew the most out of your customers.
>>333673049
>tfw Age of Empires 2 wont get any expansions that allows you build useless but aesthetically pleasing buildings
Goddamnit I just want to build a magnificent city
I just wish there were more building appearances
>>333673175
You're not one ship.
You can command a fleet, and you build the fleet. It's as RTS as RTS gets.
>>333672593
>for some reason works for other genres but not RTS
I'd like to know why this is
>>333673049
casuals love Sim City and Clash of Clans because they can do that without having to deal with the stress and difficulty of playing an actual RTS.
>>333673360
>this kills the RTS
>>333672541
>rail shooters
CoD, Halo, Uncharted, etc etc etc
>>333673049
People like basebuilding, but not necessarily skirmishing and watching their base get fucked up because they suck.
>>333673320
Gaming has gotten more and more casual/easy as time goes by.
Keep in mind back in the day, a low difficulty was how they padded a short game. Compare the first Mario games to today, when Mario is considered one of the easiest games ever. Nintendo Hard isn't a term anymore.
Games cater to the lowest denominator now, to the point that a game that is just standard difficulty becomes overwhelmed with XDDD SO HARDCORE GIT GUD LOL IT'S SO HARDDDDDDD memes by casuals. Playing online Brood War is ten times harder than Dark Souls yet Dark Souls is the epitome of difficulty in gaming to these people because it's all they now.
>>333673320
If I had to guess it might be something to do with the direct control which helps with immersion. So even if FPSs all use the same mechanics, they can still feel different.
Where as being some general commanding units doesn't vary that much unless you have a new mechanic to spice it up.
Dunno could just be casuals and whatnot. There is arguably nothing wrong with getting more of the same, so long as it is not sold as being something other than that. But for some reason that just doesn't sell well for RTSs compared to other genres.
RTS is arguably niche to begin with so that doesn't help.
>>333673746
*know, whoops
>tfw you hit submit and immediately notice your typo
>>333672245
Think about it, how often are threads about RTS made here? How long do they last? How many people does the average RTS thread have before it 404s?
Theres your answer, anon.
>>333673839
if you count DotA and LoL threads they last quite a bit
This came out last week, anybody know if its good or not?
>>333673445
Not him but I'm sure he means like house of the dead and resident evil umbrella chronicles
>>333673830
If anyone cared about how you spell a word than anything they think is already negated by their inability to stay on point.
Having said that, Mario 1 is a cunt. I was drunk while playing it, but fuck that game.
>>333673945
>missed the sale
>don't want to buy it at full price
Maybe we'll never know
>>333672616
Dragons crown, and muramasa rebirth ate excellent beat em ups as well
I feel like the esports meme contributes to kill the RTS genre as well.
Companies can't make a game with skirmish mode where autists don't complain about muh balance, or worse yet, they aim to make their game an esport for the $$$.
>>333673932
>DoTA
>LoL
Anon, with all due respectsDELETE THIS. Please just stop
>>333672245
Big investment with a small market
In order to beat the greats (AoE2/AoM/SC/SupCom/C&C/ect) you have to do what they do and then go above and beyond that. Thats a tall order for a game developer making for a fairly small market.
Then again, you could argue the reason RTS is a smaller market now is because of the lack of risk taking by developers with RTS games.
>>333672245
Because it isn't a popular genre because it's not fun?
>>333673945
Check out Arumba. He can be kinda irritating at times, but he's got some videos up that demonstrate the game pretty good. Looks like it might be decent.
>>333673932
DELETE THIS
>>333672245
People realized that RTS was a mistake.
>>333673932
MOOODDDSSSSS
>>333672245
just play civ 5 you faggot
>>333672541
are there any modern beat em ups besides yakuza?
>>333672995
Name 5 non-doujin/indie shmups released in the past year.
>>333674240
>civ5
>rts
>>333674131
MOBA games are painfully unfun and they're still popular. They're popular because retarded kids wanna show other retarded kids how they're "more skilled" than them in their retarded game.
RTS games are enjoyable because they're interesting, and they attract people who like basebuilding, micromanagement, maybe even history a bit. They have the same appeal that tycoon/management games have.
>>333674042
>Dragons crown
I did not like dragon's crown one bit.
>>333674240
Just play EUIV you faggot
>>333674360
Any reason why?
>>333674359
I like outfoxing people in RTS, skipping a common building or unit to go ahead and get a stronger unit if you played well enough early game and so forth.
Lots of fun.
>there will never be another game credits as based
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_VTfl4spFU
>>333674428
Can't really remember it was a long time ago. If I remember correctly I got bored pretty early on because it just wasn't a challenge at all, I flipped all over the screen like sanic and fucked everything up while taking almost (or sometimes entirely) no damage.
I'm sure its one of those things after 2 hours it gets more challenging or whatever but it just didn't hook me in.
>>333674428
I personally found it just a bit misogynistic.
>>333674697
I didn't think it was misogynistic enough.
>>333674690
Ah I see, yeah it is a bit of a drag to get hooked into before it really takes off, and you have access to a much broader variety of levels, and multiplayer
>>333674697
Dont do this senpai
it was a bunch of things
think back to say, 2006-2008
steam wasn't really a thing yet, outside of valve games
vista was the current windows operating system
AMD cards were setting shit on fire
nvidia cards were the good card for only not being as bad
driver support in general was shit
this was 6 years before pc ports were a thing, if there was one it was absolutely broken garbage
games are becoming more and more expensive to make, and less people are buying them on PCs
RTS games can be fairly resource intensive with 10000 units on screen
compare that to today, where you have games like league of legends where it will run even on the laptop daddy bought you for college, and steam is an empire where you can buy all the vidya you want at $3 a pop on a sale. the market for pc games has exploded.
I would say now is a great time for RTS games to re-enter the market, but the market kind of elbowed out all the mid size studios that would make this kind of thing. (still selling to kind of a niche audience, but enough to make a profit) now that all seems to be left is AAA games and a million indy dev teams pushing out turds. The only AAA RTS games being made are by Blizzard, and they only find the large audience due to name recognition and their legacy
>>333672245
Total War is still being made but sadly the developers got greedy and cut out certain parts of the game to sell as DLC
>>333674359
>maybe even history a bit
Fucking this. Nothing feels better than rewriting or reenacting large scale historical battles
>tfw placing a 1 long range unit in each of my regiments to act as "leader"
feels good
>>333672245
PvP ruined RTS.
>>333674359
AoS are easier to play and it's easy to think you're good when you're not, and when you lose you can just blame your teammates for being retards. It's designed as a team game so it's also an excuse to play with your friends kinda like how you used to justify playing WoW because it was a social experience.
If you lose in a RTS it's either because of balance or because you suck, and most of the time the winrates at the highest level don't even matter. Getting build order wins is the same thing as losing at draft in an AoS, you just lose much faster. The thing that kept me going in SC2 until I got to masters was the amount of time I felt like the game was telling me "YOU SUCK!" And by the time I got into masters league I realized that I had just climbed up to King of the Shitter and that I was even worse than I thought I was. That keeps me going but a lot of people don't like that kind of feedback from a game, and that will turn them away from games like SC2. And unless you get into a clique of equal-skill players you're not going to be doing a lot of group activities, just mindless ladder grinding. The lack of clan wars in SC2 early on(are they even in there now?) hurt the growth of SC2 more than anything imo.
>>333674907
They have no viable competition and that makes their practices the logical result. Same thing is happening with Bethesda and their Elder Scrolls/Fallout franchises.
>>333674907
total war isn't an rts
>>333674907
>Total War
Thats not really a RTS.
>>333674941
>tfw be a kid playing an rts
>tfw a campfire on map
>tfw you place one strong unit and 2-3 weaker units facing the campfire
>>333674907
>cut out certain parts of the game to sell as DLC
Only 1 DLC per TW game is cut out content.
Thats still dodgy as fuck for sure, but dont overblow it.
why hasn't anyone mentioned Grey Goo
>>333674956
PvP made RTS great
being exclusively 1v1 made RTS PvP extremely lonely and disparaging.
On the topic of RTS's, is there any news of more expansions past the Africans for AoE2 or Chinese for AoM?
>>333675029
>>333675065
Total war is most certainly an RTS. What do you think "RTS" stands for?
Does it have to be exactly like AoE for it to get those letters in your mind?
>>333675152
Anon, you two can quibble over what technically is or is not cut out, but you know his point to be valid. You can see them increasingly cutting out stuff and then selling it later the past few releases. I know you don't want it to be true, but its true, anon, it's true.
>>333674974
>If you lose in a RTS
This is the problem though, I don't think RTS is a genre where winning should matter, if it does you get esports and people caring about balance.
You can't have 30-40 nations in a game or a couple of nations with various technological stages if you care about balance.
>>333675202
Na. AI battles, coop or solo, is what the vast majority of people played during RTS golden years. The insurgence of PvP sent RTS into the esport scene which also killed the RTS genre.
>>333673945
So far I really like it. as usual though with every new RTS lots of people are shitting on it because its not exactly what they wanted with a thriving multiplayer community day one.
Personally I quite enjoy it. It's no sup com, but at least I can play the single player campaign without lagging as fuck since Sup Com will only ever use 1 core of your processor so it doesn't matter how fucking good your pc is.
>>333675196
Why hasn't anyone mentioned Grey Goo? Why...that's rather telling, isn't it?
Two main things imo:
There's too little room for the genre to innovate. All the best of the genre were made over 15 years ago, and every new RTS since then gets compared to them, and RTSfags hate them, because they didn't reach the pinnacle of perfection which was achieved very early on.
In multi-player, if you're not doing something casual, strategy doesn't determine who wins, whoever has the highest APM wins. It causes games to be mentally exhausting for most people, especially since they usually last at least a half hour or more (depends on game).
Fanbase doesn't help. They want to play autism micromanaging, at light speed, forever. They react badly to units managing themselves, no matter how good the AI is. I've seen it, it gets written off as "casualization" because it lessens the value of their sick APM.
tl;dr stagnation and niche by design
>>333675319
Losing is supposed to be a learning experience, with or without watching the replay.Self-esteem movement has ruined losing and makes people not want to play the game instead
>>333675241
>real time strategy
The strategy part of TW is what happens during your turn which is not real time, its turn based.
You're thinking of tactics, which is what takes place during battles which is in real time.
>>333675319
>You can't have 30-40 nations in a game or a couple of nations with various technological stages if you care about balance.
I'm no expert but the popular game that does have this is surprisingly balanced.
>2016
>RTS games STILL aren't as good as forged alliance
If forged alliance could have simulated projectiles in whatever fucking ancient year that was, why the fuck can't ashes do it in 2016?
I don't want to see 500 projectiles fly into my unit only for it to take 0 damage because the game won't do the damage dice roll for another few seconds.
Sins of a solar empire was particularly bad with this.
>massive fleets engage eachother
>thousands of 'rounds' being fired
>ships take damage before they're hit with anything or far after
Fuck that.
Why do RTS games STILL not use zoom to cursor?
Why do RTS games STILL not utilize multiple monitors?
Why do RTS games STILL have trash skirmish AI (looking at you, deserts of kharak)?
Fuck, am I mad.
It's like we're regressing from what games were a decade ago.
>>333675454
Fair point.
>>333672698
Yeah, this. Like the strategy? You can go play Civ for a more fulfilling experience. Like the hot clicking action? You can go play ASSFAGGOTS or Diablo for a more fulfilling experience.
>>333675315
>quibble over what technically is or is not cut out, but you know his point to be valid. You can see them increasingly cutting out stuff and then selling it later the past few releases
This is all entirely wrong.
There is no technicality about it, since Shogun 2 there has been two teams for every TW game release, the team that makes the game and the team that makes the DLC that gets sold day 1. That second team is the literal cut content.
But the moment the game releases its still whole, they are not actively making content, holding it back, then releasing it later with the exception of that day 1 DLC. They can barely release games on time (they even had to send back the release date of TWW by a month) let alone made enough content to finish a game as well as cut it out and sell it later.
>>333674240
Shitpost harder fag
I enjoyed RTSs for the feeling of commanding large armies and building nice looking bases. I never considered them units or objects. Maybe that's why I'm terrible at them.
>tfw even the few RTS games that get made are all sci-fi with spaceships and whatnot
>tfw never a true medieval RTS
>>333675682
![shroud_web_takeover[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Y7CdVzA.jpg "shroud_web_takeover[1].jpg")
Cause every time someone puts effort into one, nobody buys it
Cossacks 3 is in development
It looks just like a HD remake of Cossacks 1 but thats fine with me
>>333675519
Atleast Forged Alliance is still alive, but fuck I am starved for a fresh RTS
>>333675797
Only 1 faction in that game was well made.
>>333675797
well to be fair their effort produced a shit game
has any other rts other then AOE done random skirimish maps?
>>333675682
>>333675412
reminder that Clash of Clans is the modern RTS because it actually tried to do something differentBut screw anything after TH8 because you basically are required to pay money after then
SC2 screwed up not by making the game too simple with things like MBS and unlimited unit select, but the fact that at the top level of play everyone is basically the same unless they do meme cheese builds. You can't tell the difference between players without seeing their names. The game has an optimal playstyle and that gets boring because everyone plays the same way, whereas in brood war some people were known for their micro, some known for their macro, some for just always taking fights at the best strategic locations.
>>333675797
Grey goo looked and played boring as fuck though.
>>333675863
I still watch forged alliance 'esports' vids by Gyle on youtube.
FA will forever be alive I think, because it is literally the best RTS game ever made and will likely stay that way until I die.
>>333675839
cossacks is fun but it's really hard to play
>>333675839
HOLY SHIT how did I not hear about this.
>>333675797
Isn't this just Starcraft 2 but with one small new idea
>>333675959
Plenty of games have random map seeds.
Sins of a solar empire does it.
>>333675962
wew
I'm talking about new RTS games being made.
>>333672245
MOBA took over as RTS.
>>333675995
>cossacks is fun but it's really hard to play
Turn off the ability for building capturing.
It stops the AI continuously sneaking troops into your base and stealing everything and makes it far more manageable.
>>333676006
http://www.cossacks3.com/
Probably because we have heard nothing about it for ages now
>>333673445
>>333672724
>ITT: retards who don't know what a rail shooter is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-m9Wj-IEZY&index=1&list=UUktHErbXyPjSk_tiV_6BxiQ&annotation_id=annotation_770226&feature=iv&src_vid=C-m9Wj-IEZY#t=1m10.2s
>tfw the majority of people's first RTS is now Clash of Clans
>>333675519
>Why do RTS games STILL have trash skirmish AI (looking at you, deserts of kharak)?
they increased the difficulty last patch.
Deserts of Kharak is fantastic game, shame there's not much community
>>333672245
Because competing with Blizzard is a bad idea unless you go Free to Play, which probably wouldn't work very well for RTS.
>>333675519
I think some of that is attributable to mobile games and consoles, in a way...
Games have to be simplified and casualized to compete with them, otherwise they're seen as too difficult or slow and wont be a viable product
Granted some of that is just bad design, but that's at least why I think we are literally regressing in games
>>333672245
>tfw no game is gonna be like Lotr: battle of middleearth 2 ever again
>>333675839
http://www.cossacks3.com/index.php?lang=en&tab=post&id=50
>OG: Will there be difficulty levels of artificial intelligence, as it was in the original Cossacks? Since the era of strategies is already long gone and the new gamers can encounter difficulties while mastering game play.
>GSC: You are right, the gamers have changed and truly hardcore strategists are fewer now. Therefore, for the general convenience of adjusting the game for an individual player, we’ll return the difficulty levels.
>Since the era of strategies is already long gone and the new gamers can encounter difficulties while mastering game play.
Why is Ukraine so based, even their journalists tell it how it is
>>333676392
Reviews on steam disagree. HW2 is my favorite game of all time and even I was scared off of that cash grab.
I'll probably buying this summer when it goes on sale, but I'm so meh about it.
How do you release an RTS game with like 3 skirmish maps and shit skirmish AI?
>>333676542
You're probably right.
>>333676561
Oh shit yeah I forgot to add that one as well as some other ones. The first game was really interesting since it limited where you can build and how much, while the second one was just as good although different.
Feels like they tried to make the longest game titles just for the hell of it though.
>The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II: The Rise of the Witch-king
Because none of them can actually innovate the genre, and those who do get backlash for trying something new.
Meanwhile sticking to the same forumla they just get called a poormans Starcraft 2
Really though RTS is one of those games that are competitive by nature, but make terrible e-sports, and every fucker is trying to make e-sports these days.
>>333676159
I mean the campaign is really hard to play
some missions are straight up bullshit
skirmishes are really easy since the ai is braindead
>>333672245
It's probably harder to write the AI and pathing and shit. But there's still some. There was that homeworld game recently. And Men of War games are my favorite.
No one actually liked RTS games.
Everyone is playing Total War or Grand Strat, because those are the games that do what RTS did, but they did it right.
>>333677148
This.
RTS was made obsolete.
Because the last new entries to the RTS genre, and the strategy game genre as a whole have been uninspired with some gimmick, look at planetary annihilation, modern civ games, new X-com, they're shadows of their past selves
>>333675797
I got to test the shroud cause i do QA for publishing company. Honestly for first inception they were so fucking cool, instead of being the ugly orange color they are now, they were closer to using deep purples and black and hints of red. They looked sick.
Also i get why everyone may not like goo, its a tough sell to the RTS crowd. The pacing i feel is the worst part being that the games never felt fast enough. As well as the unit variety provided pretty boring mix of units. I'm happy with what the team achieved. Even if its player base is perpetually waning
>>333672245
because it always gets ruined by extreme min-maxing APM shit
It's hard to set-up a game where it's more relaxed and you can actually do trading or whatever with other people. Compare a FFA in AoE2 compared to Civ5.
Only downside is that a turn-based strategy game takes so fucking long to finish.
>Play an RTS game
>All the units speak gibberish or are really unmemorable
Angry mobs were a shit unit in Generals but damn if they're not memorable
>AK-47s, FOR EVERYONE
rts isn't popular anymore because most rts fans never actually liked the genre to begin with. on one hand you have people who would rather be playing sim city, and on the other hand you have people who can't deal with real time and want the games to be turn based. then this is compounded by the fact that modern online matchmaking forces people to deal with the fact that they're shit.
>>333673839
rts thread on /v/ almost always get to 200+ posts, unless the op makes the mistake of using alberto barbossa as his pictures
>>333678461
I still remember some of the funner lines from Warcraft 2. Like the Elf hero in Through the Dark Portal if you clicked her enough times;
>You never touch any of the other elves like this
Also putting on the Sing cheat in TA.
>>333673839
Can't make threads about specific RTS games if people aren't making RTS games
>>333678461
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byfNaYYiIl4
>still remembering every single one
Because for a game to have longevity it needs multiplayer. And for RTS most multiplayer boils down to 1-2 'meta' builds, and how fast you can get those builds up and running. Even in high tier play most RTS games have common strategies that are really defined by how much (fast) you can click and how well (fast) you can micromanage.
For the average pleb, this is just boring and doing the same shit again and again only slightly faster isn't enjoyable.
It's why (i'd argue) WC3 is the 'most successful' RTS of all time, because its more robust Custom Game scene allowed for HUGE online Multiplayer, without falling into the trap most RTS games did of having boring / stale and repetitive games (it eventually did fall to that when DotA became the only thing hosted by humans and variety of customs dropped off a cliff, but that's another story).
>>333672245
What mod is that
>>333679942
No idea my dude I just googled rise of nations for a picture.
where were you when RTS was saved /v/?
RTT is superior.
The ET of the genre killed it
>>333681625
>implying anyone knows what an RTT is
>>333681931
What is Wargame?
What is Total War?
>>333673248
>>The brood war fanbase was mad because it was too easy compared to SC2 (MBS, auto-mine, but above all, unlimited unit select).
>people were mad because game didn't have the objectively shitty controls of the original
I thought
>this ground is too soft, I wish more of my bones were broken
was just a meme, but it looks like gookclickers are unironically thinking that.
