>RPG has spells with status such as petrifiy, freezed and DEATH
>insane mana costs for killing regular mobs and they are practically useless against bosses
>trash mobs use them against your party all the time
How else would you balance it?
>RPG
>not just spamming normal attacks with the occasional healing spell or basic elemental attack spell, and support spells for tougher bosses
>>333655770
just removing them all together, doesn't even help when your support /heaker has limited spell slots and you need to use shit like holy magic
>>333656131
How are mobs suppose to fight back if you take out their greatest advantage?
>>333655770
X number of casts per fight that refreshes at the end of the fight.
>killing big dungeon ending bosses in Infinity Engine games using instant death spells
I love D&D.
>>333655815
It's fucks like you that keep complaining about EO being too hard and "grindy"
>RPG
>enemies are exempt from the basic rules of the game
>up to and including things like having unlimited magic points, ignoring the turn order, or straight up ignoring HOW turn order works.
>>333656664
You don't usually get hit with status more than once per battle anyway.
>>333655770
I liked how they managed it at Epic Battle Fantasy:
there's normal mobs and stronger mobs, strong enough to actually fuck you up if you're not careful.
>rpg is heavily stat-based, with relatively low importance of stats
>low difficulty means you instantly win if you think for a second
>high difficulty means it's impossible to win without grinding
>>333657109
>up to and including things like having unlimited magic points, ignoring the turn order, or straight up ignoring HOW turn order works.
Literally what game is that
It's true they get special rules, but they don't just straight up ignore some things.
>>333657204
>>rpg is heavily stat-based, with relatively low importance of stats
wat
>>333657109
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIjVvnO5lgM
>all bosses are immune to all the status effects
>>333657059
Except I'm not.
Nice try though.
Even if there are exceptions to the rule, the fact remains that 95% of rpgs, especially jrpgs, don't require more than that.
Also:
>Etrian
>hard
Kek.
>>333657302
I meant
>relatively low importance of stats
I can't intelligence today
>Game series is based around buffing, debuffing and status spells, just like SMT
>Get disregard by most because of the art style.
>>333657361
Bosses are higher level beings. It just works.
It does kind of make the player think more too in a sense.
>>333657469
>a sperg spends every single day reading replies to random trash topics
>thinks these topics have worthwhile thought processing
>>333657204
Sounds like every Bioware game after NWN. I don't think they actually understand how their own games work.
>>333657260
Enemies in Chrono Cross have unlimited magic, while the party is limited to a single use of any given spell.
Ozma, the notorious superboss in FF9, has an active time bar that fills like any other monster or player character-- EXCEPT if the player enters a command with one of their characters, Ozma's ATB will INSTANTLY fill and it get a turn.
>>333657720
What do you expect from a superboss?
They exist to be fucking horrible.
>>333657361
that isn't necessarily a bad thing, just look at how badly south park sot managed status effects
>>333657260
Digimon Cyber Sleuth has several special bosses who's gimmick is that they just attack over and over again until at least one party member dies. You can tell it's about to happen when the turn order list on the side of the screen goes from normal turn order to nothing but their face.
And that's not bullshitting; if you have some sort of set up that prevents all living members from preventing damage, he'll just keep attacking until something stops him. Jesmon, a special Knight digimon, has a move that blocks all damage and counters any attack that hits him until it's his turn again. If Jesmon is targeted by this bullshit, he just sits there and counters every attack until he chips away at the boss with all the counter attacks and kills it.
>>333657469
>every battle a boring slogfest of playing stat/ailment tippy-toes with the enemies before you can whack-a-mole them
>thinking this is strategy
>"I wonder why people don't like it, must be the art!"
>>333657869
Omega, Shinryu, and others like it never needed to flip off the entire ATB system to be a challenge. Ozma's the only instance I can think of that would classify for /v/'s favorite term of "artificial difficulty", because if it actually followed the same mechanics as every other foe in the game, it'd not be nearly as difficult.
>>333658195
Omega would classify too because it's almost always your standard FF high HP over challenge type of boss.
Most FF superbosses aren't hard, just tedious.
Exceptions would be ones like Emerald and Ruby.
>>333657496
it makes those spells fucking useless. The one time where a more strategic spell could be useful is usually when they're completely unusable.
>>333657469
Buffing and debuffing shit are always annoying to me.
>>333658726
what games made status ailments and buffs right? any game that has buffs other than percentual increase on stats?
>>333658993
None. Both are pointless padding.
>>333658993
Infinity engine games
>>333657260
The final boss of Shadowrun Dragonfall gets two turns in a row and has mobs who can teleport when teleportation doesn't even exist in that universe. He also has other mobs who can raise his defense when it along with his HP is already at the highest the player could possible get theirs.
>RPG has enemies use the same spells you do
>>333655586
>status-changing spells are useless against bosses
I hate it when JRPGs do this. It's like they're encouraging players to spam Attack to win.
>>333658993
FF12 was pretty good on using buff/debuffs
>>333660038
You can't go wrong with attack.
>poison doesn't kill, just slowly lowers health to 1HP
>>333655586
To them, your party is a bossfight
So of course they go all out with the bullshit
>>333662865
or
>Poison does such slow amounts of damage, that you could in 1/10th the time deal 5x the amount of damage by means of regular attacks
>>333660379
Indeed. Every boss has set weakness/resistance to every status and element. Meaning if you knew what it was, they could be a cakewalk.
>>333659835
>RPG has reused assets
Figures.
>>333659835
>buy guild wars factions
>never really got into mmos
>have fun on the island
>go to mainland
>can't kill shit
>die often
>don't know what i'm doing
>stop playing
>want to play again years later
>game is long dead
>>333657324
I would like a turn MOT, please Mot.
>>333657496
It makes them pointless though. When normal random encounters are maybe three rounds long, there's not point in using status effects because it's just a turn you wasted being able to smack an enemy upside the head. There's no real in between with older RPGs.
Bio is one of the best spells in final fantasy.
>>333664146
>>333657324
>MMMMM
>get attacked
>MMMMM
>repeat several more times
>turn the console off
>never touch the game again
>>333664482
What's better done RPGs nowdays?
>"""""powerful""""' spell that requires you to sacrifice one of your party memebers
>does shit damage and you're better off not even using it
>>333657324
So how are you meant to beat him
>>333656872
It honestly feels really good to kick firkraggs arrogant ass with finger of death
>>333664882
I wouldn't know, most these days don't involve those kinds of spells anymore. Or at least not the ones I play.
>>333655586
>instant death effects DO work on bosses, they're just usually more resistant
>>333663898
I died an obscene number of times when I first got to the mainland. The jump in difficulty is especially notable for a first time player, especially if you haven't got a full understanding of how to set up yours skill bar. Once I did set up my own one everything started coming together. Such a shame you missed out on it.
Darkest Dungeon gets status effects right. Poison, Bleed, and buffs all feel useful in almost every encounter, and are particular useful against bosses
>>333664146
>>333666059
Explain more about how it's useful in every encounter. I'm interested.
>>333665152
If I remember right, I used a buff that applies Sukukaja to your entire team twice with the demi-fiend and twice with Matador, by skipping the turns of my other two demons. My group then evaded his Megidolaon and this ate away Mot's turns.
>>333665152
Use his weakness to electricity while buffing and debuffing. You can mana drain him.
>>333658993
I liked the way FF13handled status effects. A lot of boss encounters need you to buff a certain attacking stat then force a weakness on the boss by crippling their attack pattern with a particular ailment.
FTL isn't a RPG, but it implements the only situation dmg over time mechanics that I find have any merit. Fire for instance, burn the crew compartments slowly. If you successfully kill all their crew, you get more scraps/random items/more crew member/side quests as a reward.
Not in a single RPG where poisoning shit have any merit. Don't get better loot, don't get better reward, nothing. The enemy just get more turns to inflict damage on your ass.
Would be nice to:
>Poison animal to death.
>Get Nice Fur
>Poison dude to death.
>Get undamaged gear.
>>333667041
Does he use Beast's Eye right off the bat or do you have some time to minimise damages?
Dragon's Dogma was cool in that status effects worked on all of the bosses too.
>>333666782
Since it's got permadeath and long dungeon crawls, any damage on your characters is bad, and it's difficult to wipe the entire enemy team in a single turn, and usually you're not killing enemies in a single hit.
Having a plague doctor stunning or poisoning the back row on the first turn is viable for pretty much every encounter. Especially during fights against stress inflicting enemies, since stress carries outside of the dungeon too. Stopping them is a priority because having one stressed character can fuck a whole run.
Buffs are pretty useful, since they're mostly stuff like dodge bonuses, stun resist, etc.
RNG is pretty brutal in DD, so having poison/bleed ticking down gives you a bit of room to heal, buff, or focus other enemies. They also stack, so you can get crazy damage on bosses and stuff.
Bosses to have certain immunities, so you can't use every status effect on every boss, but you mostly can.
>>333667673
Wow, you know, I never thought of that before but FTL is a good example of a damage-over-time mechanic. You made a damn good point.
>>333667725
RNG
>>333662865
>>333663383
>Poison does a set amount of damage. Once it reaches that point, it's cured
>Poison does extra damage to every attack and debuffs the one it hits
>Poison goes until it is healed or reaches 1 HP
You can only pick one. Which do you do?
>>333667913
>Rusty weapons inflict poison and torpor
>Gold weapons inflict slince
They did joke weapons right.
>>333655586
>insane mana costs for killing regular mobs
Its a get out of grinding free card for people who refuse to run from a random encounter...
>>333665086
>powerful spell that requires you to sacrifice one of your party memers
>you can just cast rez on the next turn, repeating the ultimate sacrifice over and over
>>333663242
>To them, your party is a bossfight.
...Shit... I almost feel bad for them.
>>333663242
It isn't
Otherwise the player would resist all those effects
>>333670848
You're the worst kind of bossfight
The one that can resurrect itself during the fight, making statues worthless
>>333667673
Monster Hunter gets it right in my opinion, weapons can cause poisoning but have slightly lower damage. Used against the right monsters, it can deal hundreds of straight damage to their health over the course of 10-20 seconds. In a game where your attacks are generally only hitting about 20-30 damage for fast weapons or around 100 for stuff like the greatsword lvl 3 charge, 300-400 extra damage is a huge boon.
Of course not all monsters are weak to poison, so you're better off going with other statuses in those instances.
>>333667913
>>333668801
Rusty weapons would be better suited to silence and torpor since tetanus causes locking of joints, most notably the jaw.
Gold can have poison since gold plating commonly contains other chemicals that can damage the liver and other organs.
>>333671470
>You can steal an item and they can't get it back.
>>333668617
>Poison does extra damage to every attack and debuffs the one it hits
This, as it'd actually be useful.
>>333671663
>Gold can have poison since gold plating commonly contains other chemicals that can damage the liver and other organs.
You don't get itSilence is golden
>>333667673
But even then, you must have a setup exclusively dedicated to fire damage for it to be viable. Such as teleporter, rock crew and fire bomb launcher with missile replicator. It really isn't worth it if you ask me.
>>333655586
>Boss is immune to trivial shit such as losing 3 HP per turn from poison
What's the fucking point?
>bosses immune to status effects
>regular enemies are affected by them but not enough for it to matter
>>333672334
That's the whole fucking point of this thread.
>>333671708
>You take the first turn and can wipe them in the first turn if they're underleveled or don't have good resistances
>bosses are not immune to status effects
>game balance assumes you'll keep them status'd
>early mobs can still fuck you up when you're twice their level because of rng bullshit
>An immunity and weakness system
>Some status effects are either not effective or incredibly effective against bosses
>Makes it so you can build around this and plan ahead to exploit these weaknesses beforehand
>They throw in a boss immune to everything
>>333665152
At least on normal mode you h ave to be super unlucky for them to spam the move like that, but otherwise you just take advantage of their weaknesses.
>it's a one point wonder skill
What's her name /v/?Rage retaliation from torchlight 2. It's a passive that causes you to instantly fire off a damaging blast at an enemy who hit you for 120% of your weapon dps. It always procs, the only hindrance being how often it can proc. The only thing leveling up does is shorten the window between retaliations.
>Have a whole class dedicated to status effects and damage over time
>completely worthless because every fight is over before they begin to be useful
>keep them around because they have great out of combat utility
>>333667673
Poisoning something in Torchlight debuffs them to do less damage and have more armour.
>>333673319
Spider Mines from Torchlight 2
I beat the entire last third of the game and the final bosses with it and nothing else
>>333655770
The monster hunter/FF Explorers way, you need to reach certain amount of status for it to proc, and there's diminishing returns.
just cast reflect on urself nerd
>>333657469
>get disregarded because of the art style
Funny you say that considering this game series probably has some of the most well-balanced designs ever despite what the cover arts would have you believe.
>>333657260
final fantasy 3
