>But for a bed, a dresser, a mirror, a desk and a few scattershot piles of junk, the room is empty. The door is locked. Time is perilously short: you have 10 seconds till your abusive partner swaggers in, spoiling for another fight. Can you evade the seemingly inevitable? Now you’re a lonely parent, trying everything you can to quell the distraught cries of your terminally ill child. Now you’re an immigrant, fresh to America, hawking newspapers on the commuter trail. Sales are few and your rent is high. You arrive home to your forsaken flat to find a scrawled note from your landlord: lose the cat – your only companion – or face eviction.
>Yes, games can inform us, create empathy and deepen our understanding of social systems. That same power also enables them to enforce problematic values in profound ways. This tool, whose power is only beginning to be explored, must be wielded with care.
Where were you when vidya became a legitimate art form?
>>333378541
vidya has always been art, only pretentious faggots make "games" and call them "art".
>EMOTIONS MAKE US FEEL THINGS
wow thanks article
They aren't, because in spite of all of this they're still failing to utilize the only unique aspect of games.
The more people take out actual game play and game mechanics the less they're games and the more they become movies or books that waste your time creating dead space you have to wade through to get to the next section of narrative or visuals.
>>333378541
Not going to lie, but I like the artsy games more than brown and bloom shooter #3,492
>games
>tools
No. Games are not a tool for you to peddle your propaganda for your ideology. I wish these people would just fuck off already.
Super Mario Bros. is art.
This pretentious pixel indie games are not.
>>333378541
Oh my god, I fucking hate these church service artists.
>>333378715
That is like choosing between shit and fancy shit
>>333378541
>art form?
And who exactly cares about this outside of art major failures who couldn't hack it in any other field?
>>333378715
No you dont, you only pretend to like them because it makes you feel more sophisticated, more mature.
>>333378926
>you don't like something because I say you don't like it
Fuck off
>>333378884
Art majors that are hacks in their own field more like it.
Can you imagine how disgusted the great artists would be seeing the modern age? People with no training, no skill, no imagination all in charge of art. Imagine how much shit talking modern artists would have to deal with if they had even just the renaissance artists around criticizing them.
I preferred when arts games were games like SoTC. Not this pandering bullshit. Where the fuck did it all go so fucking wrong.
>>333378541
>coming out simulator
LOL
>>333378541
>weightier subjects
>child soldiers, rape, slavery are not okay
>telling others about yourself is a weightier subject
Gaming journalism is retarded
>>333378841
>implying games like battlefield and call of duty aren't also tools to get kids excited about the military so they can sign up and get shot over oil
Upvoted
>>333379156
>implying they are
They're just for fun faggot.
Stop trying to push your horseshit on us
>>333378541
>black and white
>pixel trash
>goony beard man
This is the future of indie games
>>333378541
Anyone who hates this game is just a try hard faggot. This one was actually what emo games should be like because NO TRANNYS
>>333379124
Addressing the geopolitical ramifications of a destabilized military power and the rising hold of religious fundamentalism in place of secular security in the aftermath isn't a weighty subject at all don't you know?
>>333379271
>They're just for fun
>games are propaganda when they're in favor of an opinion i dislike, but not propaganda when in favor of an opinion i like
Up. Voted.
can gaming journalism just fucking die already?
>>333379156
Men want to fight hunt, kill and conquer regardless, it's in our blood and DNA you fucking pansy faggot.
>blaming war on COD when war has been around for Millenia, and all the wars since COD, Iraq and Afghanistan have been fucking tiny inconsequential low participation rate wars compared to previous wars in how history
>>333379369
Nice strawman senpai
I don't like the idea but they just aren't at all trying to convey that. You're just a retard desu
![header[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ytOf3K0.jpg "header[1].jpg")
>>333379406
>Iraq and Afghanistan have been fucking tiny inconsequential low participation rate wars
And that's exactly why stuff like this gets made.
>>333378701
So what game mechanics can be considered art?
I have no problem with games trying to tackle real subjects. My issue is that so many of these art games don't have more complex mechanics than just walking around and looking at stuff.
So many games try to be impressive by emulating literature, cinema or visual arts but fail to be engaging as games. It's like the early years of film when they were just recording theatrical performances.
>>333379406
>it's in our DNA
Maybe in your shitty genome but not mine.
>>333378715
>Not going to lie, but I like the artsy games more than brown and bloom shooter #3,492
Depends really on what you consider artsy. Icepick Lodge games? This War of Mine? Silent Hill? Sure. Everyday the same dream, Gone home and all that shit? Not really.
>>333378926
Nice projection there.
>>333378841
Actually, they are. If that is how you use them, that is exactly what they will be. Games are tools, PERIOD. What exactly do you use them for is entirely on the creator and the consumer.
>>333379065
I like how Renaissance artists were open to commisions and doing things simply for money. And some of the greatest art of our time was done for profit.
I fucking hate this anti profit idea that art has to be away and apart from money making and be some stupid touchy feelings shit.
>>333378863
As this post said, artists today treat making art as if they are going into a church service. Have to be all sombre and serious because art is sacred now.
>>333379590
>Actually, they are. If that is how you use them, that is exactly what they will be. Games are tools, PERIOD. What exactly do you use them for is entirely on the creator and the consumer.
No games are not tools, PERIOD. Just like movies, music and other art. Only a legit fascist would think of art as a tool. Kill yourself, you are literally hitler
What the fuck is the criteria for these people considering certain games as "art"? What I've boiled it down to so far is:
>low key
>more subtle, less action
>soft, melodic soundtrack
>something depressing in it
>has to have a message abstaining from the norm
If your primary concern while making a game is making it art before anything else, there's a good chance your end product is not only going to be shit art but a shit game.
Especially when you go out of your way the entire time trying to deconstruct video games like you're even original or goijng out of your way to not use to the strengths of the medium you're using isn't fucking retarded hack shit.
>>333379591
>As this post said, artists today treat making art as if they are going into a church service. Have to be all sombre and serious because art is sacred now.
Actually, that is the exact opposite of what is happening now. Art WAS SACRED back in the classical periods. It's profanation and relativization of art, it's the "art is everything and nothing, art is all about expression, art is subjective" that is the reason why modern art simply does not work, and does not fill the role it is supposed to play in society. Art today isn't sacred, art today is just another outlet of individuals to over-value their own importance - a shitty tribute to individualism, instead of actual object of worship or adoration.
How are they using this art form? Their games look like crap, they're framed like crap, they play like crap, they're paced like crap. Everything about them is bad. They can't even claim to be "thought installations" since they're so preachy, they're about two steps below your average Banksy spray.
But you know what? Go for it. There are thousands of games and it doesn't hurt them to try, especially if it's just free on flash sites or itch.io.
The "art games" I have a problem with are walking simulators and games that pride themselves on non-violence - these pathetic fucking morons have played so little games that they don't understand that there are entire genres - puzzle, sports, racing, abstract platforming - where violence/action is entirely gone.
So they take an action game, remove the action, replace it with nothing, and wait for applause.
>>333379124
>telling others about yourself is a weightier subject
Well if you are fat.
>>333379648
Are you telling me that books, movies and other art is not a tool for conveying and propagating meanings and messages?
Are you telling me that a movie director does use the film to TELL SOMETHING to the audience?
>Where were you when vidya became a legitimate art form?
It didnt because its still subject to censorship.
A "lolita-game" is not possible because games arent art.
>>333378541
no games aren't a tool that need to wielded with care. fuck off
you know why triple A game developers don't make games like this because to one wants to play them. video games are power fantasies escaping reality not books or telly movies that depress the fuck out of people, yer I really wanna play grand theft cancer or call of leukaemia. fuck of from my hobby and write a book or make black and white art piece, and stop complaining because your shitty cancer gay transgender wymen walking simulation didn't sell because plebs didn't get it. NO they get it its just you shitty game is borrrinnggg shit
>>333378541
Who the fuck uses "weightier" instead of heavier?
>>333379707
All games are art. Just some games are bad art.
Like shitty games made by a 12 year old is like a drawing of a little kid, not good but its still art.
The COD and battlefields are like the shitty generic paintings that are mass produced.
Then everything else is on a spectrum and also based on personal opinion
>>333379834
>muh sensor sheep!
>>>/r/kotakuinaction
>>333378541
>Phone Story, Cart Life and Coming Out Simulator 2014
what
>>333378541
Vidya has always been a art form. The problem is that people confuse art with pretentious shit.
>>333379908
Some people don't realize that art isn't a state you aspire to, it's a baseline label for any creative output, with merit judged on more objective terms.
>>333379915
nice but maybe next time you should try refuting my point instead of memespouting?
here is your (you)
>>333378541
>videogames are tools to push our agenda
ART! WE DID IT REDDIT!
>games as art fags think art needs to be some shitty immigrant or lesbian story with crappy pixel art
>meanwhile real artists make things like this to huge acclaim while games as art fags make no money
fucking hipsters
So what your basically saying
Is that i can make a simulator of a problem in the world and hipsters will eat it up
Okay
>>333379514
>Iraq War
>Coalition forces (2004–09) = 176,000 at peak
>Total dead: 25,286
>War in Afghanistan
>Total killed: 27,018
>Battle of Stalingrad, only one part, of one of three major theatres of a single war
>Axis suffered 850,000 total casualties
Wow huh, it's like Germany lost more soldiers in one single battle, than the entire participation rate of every western nation on both Iraq and Afghanistan
>>333379557
I hope you enjoy raising your wifes son
>>333379908
Sad thing is, a game planned by 12yo might be better than some of the trash that's out there.
>>333379908
>All games are art. Just some games are bad art.
I love how there is one retard spewing this absolute inane bullshit EVERY SINGLE TIME this subject matter is brought up. It's really like a mantra, a completely braindead magical formulae that people utter, almost subconsciously at this point, at the sign of any trouble. It's a reflex, and protective one at that.
>>333380051
not before you fellated a bunch of influential hipsters to promote your "game". you also have to join on on the mutual supporting on crowdfunding platforms.
>>333380189
>namecalls a person and doesn't provide any actual rebuttal, because he can't
Your next post will be "but it's OBVIOUS why he's wrong, I don't even need to prove how"
>>333379985
1. Games aren't "censored" in the US. The government isn't banning certain games from being made or released. And no - you have no right for your furry gay dominatrix game to be sold at Wal-Mart.
2. Print and films however are censored by the government in the US. The are libel and slander laws and printing certain information is illegal (court information sequestered by a judge, the identities of minors and victims in legal cases, government secrets, etc.) Meanwhile the FCC regulates and censors the radio and air waves.
Ergo, vidya is the least infringed upon medium and, by your definition, the most artistic.
>>333380189
All drawings are art, just some are bad art.
It makes perfect sense you fucking retard. Just because you are an uneducated idiot who didn't graduate high school and doesn't know a single thing about other artforms, doesn't mean you know anything about art.
>>333378715
>brown and bloom shooter #3,492
Spotted the Nintendrone
>>333379729
I was talking more about how they treat art, in the same way someone treats a church service. No mucking around, no having fun, have to be respectful think about "deep" things. Oh you can't do X thing, it's not proper to do that while in church. It's not befitting art.
Of course some people like to take a shit on a piece of paper, but these same artists will regard it as deep and inviolable.
When art actually was sacred, people spent years chiseling statues of naked women. Or painted images of a women being raped by a swan. It was great.
>That same power also enables them to enforce problematic values in profound way
>Tl;dr - SJW censorship apologist
>>333379406
I personally blame religion for all of that. It has nothing to do with DNA or resources.
You totally can have artsy games that can convey whatever themes you want, just don't make the common mistake of treating the actual gameplay as a after thought. Papers please comes to mind. It was bleak as fuck and you dreaded the arbitrary buracratic bullshit because it made your job way harder
>>333380369
Religion is just used to given the average joe a reason to fight. Most wars are fought for territory or resources
>>333379908
>>333379975
>a car frame is art because someone put thought and creativity into designing it
>a plastic bottle is art because someone put creativity into designing it
>a coat hanger is art because someone put creativity into making it
Engineers are artists
>>333380369
>I personally blame religion for all of that. It has nothing to do with DNA or resources.
Trolling aside, it's sad that there are actually people who believe this.
>>333380369
>that fucking image
Rustled
>>333379591
>>333379729
THIS so much. It's infuriating seeing people treat art from the Renaissance the same as they treat postmodern art, for example. And it all links back to /POL/ WAS RIGHT and how the jews propagate these nu-males and "everyone is special" liberal garbage. Now, "everyone is an artist", when back then you were only an artist if you were actually any good.
Even back to the time before sjws, we can go back to 1960's counterculture and the time of Andy Warhol, which was also propagated by the liberal jews.
What is the real art of our time that takes actual talent?
I like hyperrealistic art, and also some vidya, like GTA V because of just how deep and rich that game is AND filled with social commentary etc.
MGS3 is another example.
Uncharted 4 seems to also have a very particular attention to detail, even if it is linear.
>>333380369
>that capitalization
>>333380447
Yes, car frames and plastic bottles are art.
They have museums dedicated to cars and the history of consumer design. These are their art installations.
>>333380447
Are you seriously comparing coat hangers and water bottles to video games? Clearly you are retarded
>>333378541
We're in a world where Transformers and The Godfather coexist as part of the same medium without problems and without people saying loudly that Bayformers movie cheapen said medium.
But the same is unthinkable for video games
>>333380316
>Games aren't "censored" in the US.
Fire Emblem is the latest I can think of. And don't give me that "Only the state can censor" because we both know, its not true.
And I was never talking about furry gay dominatrix game
I was talking about a book that cannot be made into a game because it deals with Pedophilia.
Just look at how many japanese game characters had their Age raised in the west just to avoid the pedophilia discussion.
>>333379271
>implying that all art isn't inherently ideological
UPVOTED
Remember what art games used to be?
>>333380606
>not knowing anything about art or art history
>keep reusing that reddit meme
EBIN
>>333380654
Games have never been art, and certainly not those shitty games
>>333380656
>not knowing anything about art or art history
That's you, not the poster you talked to
Might want to look up those art movements again
>>333380589
There's that German game that's all about fucking kids. Would a major publisher pick it up? Absolutely not. It was still made, though.
>>333380589
>Fire Emblem
>Censorship
No, it's not censorship unless an outside body is literally banning you from spreading your message. Nintendo themselves decided to change the game themselves ergo it's not censorship.
Next you're going to say that refraining from cursing in a job interview is censorship.
>>333380369
Where's that one God's Philosophers review when you need it?
>>333380749
If they are ideologically driven, then it is the individual's ideology. They aren't though. And they definitely aren't TOOLS for the government and other ideologues to try to manipulate people with.
I hope you understand how that makes you sound like a fascist
>>333379873
>grand theft cancer
LOL
Seriously though, you're on the money. I don't think most people want to come back from their shitty day job, read all over the news about how everything is turning to shite and then turn on a game and get told how masculinity / western values / not using thought genders / not being depressed in 2016!!!! is problematic
>>333380786
and yet if you only utter the name here or use an image from it here you get banned.
Censorship.
>>333380821
>Self censorship isnt censorship
it literally has censorship in its name.
What has your job interview to do with videogames? Care to explain your analogy?
>>333380916
Individuals cannot use tools?
>>333380916
read some althusser faggot
>>333380992
Individuals don't use art to try to push their ideology and when they try to most people can recognize it and will call them out on it. Individuals use art to express their feelings and experiences and dreams.
>>333380987
>it literally has censorship in the name
>op is an opossum because op is literally in the name
Unless the content is banned or forcibly changed or the author explicitly changes it beforehand because it would just end up banned or forcibly changed then it isn't censorship
>>333379406
>Men want to fight hunt, kill and conquer regardless, it's in our blood and DNA you fucking pansy faggot.
>>333380369
You know, I might be a fucking idiot, but I'm fairly sure the Dark Ages happened because Rome got itself into like 15 fucking civil wars, revolts, the like, lost all their resources to varying factions, fucking split in half and died after getting assfucked by Attila the Hun.
And you know, I might just be a fucking moron, but I'm fairly sure it was the Christian Church's consolidation of Europe's paltry funds that allowed the funding of higher sciences and academia that dragged humanity out of the middle age.
Hence half the fucking universities today are still named after some bumfuck saint or other.
>>333380458
>not believing the fact that christians destroyed FUCKTONS of books by ancient greece philosophers, math books, all things that would make us more advanced.
lol what are the dark ages guys
>ISIS doing the exact same shit now and destroying not just antique original art, but also, yeah, FUCKING BOMBING US. And the west doesn't give a fuck and lets more refugees in, who by the way, DO NOT ASSIMILATE TO US IN ANY WAY and just sit in their neighborhoods without speaking the country's language, yell "Allahu Akbar!" and assault whites.
>Christianity went through reform to become a moderate religion that doesn't encourage fucking killing everyone.
>Quran still actively tells them to kill us, the infidels, even if they don't want to, to pretend to be our friends and be moderate muslims before taking over our land, that Allah is fine with and encourages murder, rape, etc. and after every ISIS attack, all you can hear an imam in a mosque talk about is how to prevent whites from being prejudiced against them, as opposed to how to inform authorities about suspected terrorrists or how to stand out as normal people against terrorists, for example like italian americans did against the italian mob or how japanese americans did during WW2 when the president was literally making internment camps for them.
>>333380821
>it's not censorship unless an outside body is literally banning you from spreading your message.
Keep attempting to redefine shit and maybe one day you'll be right senpai
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-censorship
>>333381159
> it would just end up banned or forcibly changed
you answered it yourself, here is your (you)
>>333380681
Games became art about the same time the first video game was made. Now quickly hurry up and get your suicide over and done with for that shit opinion.
>>333381554
>Games became art about the same time the first video game was made
No they didn't. Now quickly hurry up and get your suicide over and done with for that shit opinion.
>>333380926
this is the reason why gta sells a billion and depression quest sold 2 or something. its like making a game about stamping paper work day in and day yer I would play that (sic)
>>333381053
Marxists have always been wrong about art. Art reflects the world, the world doesn't reflect art. You can not change the world with art.
>>333381628
Prove they didn't.
Prove that Counter Strike and Tetris aren't art.
>>333381674
>Marxists have always been wrong about art. Art reflects the world, the world doesn't reflect art. You can not change the world with art.
snap Marxist. but in all seriousness I think video game have a aspect of art to them. you need some creativity to come up with mechanics and immersion except depression quest
>>333381760
Burden of proof is on you for that ridiculous claim
>>333381760
If Counter Strike and Tetris are art then so are tabletop games like Battleship and Connect 4.
Think about that for a minute. Dumbass.
>>333378541
Vidya has always been an art form. Everything man-made can be art.
>>333380540
>no rebuttal
Thanks, I win
>>333381913
why not makes sense again some one has to decide what colour looks nice on the disc thing in connect 4
>>333381337
Dude, you're the one trying to change the meaning of the word "censorship" to include assumptions you make because you're convinced you can read minds to determine "true intentions."
You were the religious extremist all along, you know.
>>333378841
Well obviously they are since so many people are doing it
>>333381905
The burden of proof is on your for >>333380681 that ridiculous claim. Objectify prove Ico and SotC aren't art. If you can't do that, then even COD is art.
Remember, Transformers is art, because it's a film. Or at not all films art?
>>333381913
They literally are though, stop treating art like it's some sacred fucking thing. It's a human creation of creativity, who cares if it also entertains you. I am sure the ancients were entertained at all the statues with cocks on them.
Literally kill yourself for thinking art is worthy of respect, praise or even being cared about.
The entire concept of art could drop off the face of the planet tomorrow and nothing would change. We'd still have paintings, sculptures, films, games, music. Art is a useless concept to apply a value level to a creation.
>>333381905
>burden of proof is on you
Prove it.
Reminder that those who are quick to praise video games for its non-video games aspects are those who really don't give a shit about them and are generally the first to cry for censorship.
>>333382191
>They literally are though, stop treating art like it's some sacred fucking thing.
No, they're not. Stop treating art like it's not a term that designates work of exceptional quality that stands above a mediocrity.
>it's a /v/ talks about art and masculinity thread
>Coming out simulator
Fucking whatever. You know what I did?
>Dad I'm gay
>ok son
Not everything has to be a fucking emotionally traumatic experience
>>333380447
>what's industrial design
>>333378541
"Problematic"
IE I want to push a narrative. Simon Parkin is a cunt.
Cart Life was fine. Not exactly an artistic game.
>>333382451
Who the fuck is talking about masculinity?
>video games are art
lol
nope
>>333382370
>Stop treating art like it's not a term that designates work of exceptional quality that stands above a mediocrity.
That isn't art. If it was, and quality was the only factor that mattered, then by what way do you judge a game? How do you objectivly judge quality among the broad spectrum of creative endeavors that are considered "art"? Do you judge a game by how well it emulates a film? Or how well it is as a game?
Is Alien art because it's good, while Alien 3 isn't art because it's shit?
By your definition of art. If a game is a good video game, it's art. So SotC is art because it's a good game.
But really, this term, art needs to be retired. It was good when it refered to paintings and sculture. But retroactivly adding all this other shit like plays, films, music, literature, even video games is too much.
For fucks sake, if you make a film, you want to make good cinema, not good art. Art as a concept needs to die, espcially if it's just a value marking of something that is good in it's medium. Yet you seek to exclude one medium because it's "fun" and art has to be serious to you? Is the entire medium of video games bad? Are there 0 good games in existence?
You wouldn't judge a sculpture on it's writing quality would you. Why not judge a game on it's mechanics and level design?
>>333382570
Sounds like your dad was a terrible father, to be honestyou disgusting faggot
Oh look another numale ashamed of his "profession" of writing about video games and trying to make them seem like high fucking art. YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNigger
>>333378541
>Yes, it is 2016 and video games are only now beginning to explore weightier subjects...
MEANWHILE FIFTEEN YEARS AGO
>>333378541
>Coming out simulator
That's the gayest thing I've ever seen and I've seen another man put his dick in my ass
>video games are art
well, they're more artistic than some post-modernist scam artist pressing his bare ass against a blank canvas and relaxing his rectum, and whatever splatters it produces is deemed "art"
>something that is created with imagination and skill and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or feelings
Fuck video games, post real art.
>>333380079
I bet even with inflation that the whole WW2 was cheaper for USA than Afghanistan occupation
>>333378541
>Only recently games are dealing with heavier subjects
>Hey guys, I only started playing games when it became socially acceptable to and I have absolutely no idea what the fuck I'm talking about but I have a gender studies degree so you should seriously totally listen to me no really guys
Get raped to death kike
>>333380079
>it's like Germany lost more soldiers in one single battle
Prove it.You can't.
>>333378541
>That same power also enables them to enforce problematic values in profound ways. This tool, whose power is only beginning to be explored, must be wielded with care.
So basically this little bitch is saying that video games should be used to promote his ideals but not those he disagrees with. Got it.
>>333383115
Because of Lend Lease money payments, possibly, USA made a lot of money from that war. England however bankrupted it's entire empire.
>>333383187
Literally go on wikipedia and look up casualty rates.
>>333379065
Contemporary artists have far surpassed the old masters in terms of skill, and imagination.
>>333382929
>le only classical paintings are art XD
>>333380289
>namecalls a person and doesn't provide any actual rebuttal, because he can't
The rebuttal is provided every single god damn time some retard spews this shit up.
It's simple: it's wrong because A) it does not actually reflect the way the term "art" is used both in common and academic discourse, B) it does not reflect the way art has been displayed and reflected through out the history and across various cultures, C) it actually does not provide us with ANY useful knowledge regarding art (literally, it does not say anything), D) the concept of art under this definition is completely redundant and literally meaningless, which for something that is supposed to provide us with understanding of the MEANING OF THE FUCKING WORD is considerable issue: E) it still actually leaves the single most difficult side of the debate untouched.
It's a definition invented and propagated by cowards, and it's SOLE FUNCTION is to prevent the possibility of one being accused of being wrong. You don't spew that shit because you understand anything about art: you spew it SO YOU DON'T have to know anything about art, but still be "right". The fact that you are rendering one of the most important and powerful tool of humanity completely useless in the process does not concern you, because you are a cowardly, alibistic FUCK who will rather poison the whole god damn well beforehand just so that you don't have to carry any real intellectual responsibility for your beliefs.
>>333380319
It does not make sense, see above fucking retard.
>>333383083
Is photography an art?
>>333379523
If we're going super literal and undisputable then Imma say the brush mechanics in Okami
>>333383083
>>333383402
IS this heaven? My goodness.
You guys wanna know a secret? Fags like that, who write shit like that, continue to be employed because of you. Because you go to their websites. Because you share their work. Because you get other people to see it who otherwise wouldn't have. Because you create outrage.
You are their personal unpaid advertisers. They love you. They laugh at you. You make them money.
>>333380821
>Localization (read: not the creators) group removes aspects they deem inappropriate
How is this not censorship?
![downtown03[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/dqP5EKa.jpg "downtown03[1].jpg")
>>333380447
>implying cars aren't art
This board is 18+ bucko
>>333382742
Art is fine it just needs to stop being used to deflect criticism.
People will look at shit like the games in OP's post and say "these aren't fun or engaging at all so I don't think it is a very good video game" and the response becomes "well it's art though so you HAVE to respect it and give it attention." Fuck no, who cares about that. No game should have a 10/10 rating for being art despite having garbage bare-bones gameplay.
>>333382898
How did you see that? I can't see my own asshole.
>>333383679
>>333383759
Dude had mirrors all over his walls. Serious ego problems.
>>333383401
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the product of a liberal arts degree
>>333383616
Except, like countless threads like these, but with entirely fabricated premises proved time and time again: nobody really ever bothers to check the source material.
>Is photography an art?
Anything man-made can potentially be considered a work of art. Determining whenever something is or isn't art is a normative process, it's based on attribution of value and projection of (social) values into objects. If your social surroundings identify or project some of their highly held values into an object, they deem it art. There is really nothing more or less to it.
All other debate is a debate of the social value systems given society holds. Some will find the technical prowess, observatory skills or patience necessary to take beautiful photo's highly valuable. Other may value the social values represented on the thing you took picture off. Most societies do both.
But if your society, for an example, considers figurative art a sign of vanity, like some islamic cultures do, then obviously, photography will never be considered art within their own context.
>>333383910
>And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the product of a liberal arts degree
Sure, avoid having to actually adress any of the issues I've said and start throwing shit at degrees. That will totally show me. Especially since: no, I do not actually have a liberal art degree.
>Be me
>From planet Gor
>Several alien characters in various games look like me
>Feels weird having to kill me in several of these guys
It's cool.
>>333378541
>the "pixels" in the picture are all of different size
can indies please stop making pixel art that isn't actually pixel art.
>>333384350
More games need alien and Nazi protagonists.
>>333378541
>pretentious, stuck up, faggots making pretentious, stuck up vidya
can't we at least have a break between this kind of stuff for a couple years?
Im sure people who have cancer or are gay and afraid to come out sure wanna play video games where you go trough the already shity life they are living right now
>>333378541
>>333378541
>coming out simulator
you couldn't make this shit up even if you tried your hardest
The best art was always made when not looking for a profit anyway
You know how you can tell? The artist doesn't make the most bland, braindead audience pandering bullshit. It has a message (not necessarily an Aesop) and most of the time immaculate technical quality.
Since music is the best art form, videogames should look to it seeing how many different styles and experimentation there is. The best concept albums tell a better story (or just tell a story but in a better way) than pretty much every videogame ever made. Combined.
>>333383083
>>333383421
YES.
>>333384358
Fucking this. It just screams "special game".
>>333384589
Truly talented.
>>333378541
The only people that want to turn videogames into "art" are those that are too stupid, ignorant and untalented to make a name for themselves in any other established artistic medium, or whose horizons are so limited that they can only engage in pop culture
>>333384589
It's uncanny how close Dragon's Crown came to capturing this.
>>333384542
>The best art was always made when not looking for a profit anyway
Completely wrong, the best art is for profit commissions. Hundreds of years later people still admire Renaissance paintings.
No one will care about Death Grips in 800 years.
>Since music is the best art form
Literally wrong again, it's the lowest and most pleb form of art. It's a supplementary art meant to aid greater art forms like film, video games, or even plays.
>>333384754
Not even close.
>indie "games"
more like failed writers and film makers
>entire thread debating whether games are art or not
>the label art has no meaningful definition and never will
You people are the fucking worst.
>>333384805
The fact that you name Death Grips tells me all I need to know. Why do teenagers post here?
>>333384805
>it's the lowest and most pleb form of art
That's a dumb thing to say. Visual arts are an imitation of nature, music is perfectly abstract and therefore more "perfect" than any other artform. Or that's how almost everyone thought back in the days when Platonism was relevant (coincidentally, what many consider the heydays of art)
>>333384743
Did it seriously, seriously never even cross your mind that maybe, JUST MAYBE there are some people who genuinely just want to make powerful works, and who actually genuinely believe games might be the best medium for that?
Do you seriously live in a world where EVERYBODY IS A CUNT EXCEPT YOU, and everything they ever do can be traced to their evil schemes and plans to somehow harm you?
>>333378541
That video game looks like it should be in French.
>>333384943
>the label art has no meaningful definition and never will
Maybe if you are an ignorant fuckwit that drinks the postmodern kool-aid
>>333384542
>The best art was always made when not looking for a profit anyway
This idea only came out during the XIX century with Romanticism, art was almost always made for a profit or as a trade
>>333379271
They get free shit and help from the military asblong as they reflect it in a good light. Its literaly state sponsered propoganda like the Transformers movies or Man of Steel.
>>333379776
>>333384969
Death Grips is a shitty overrated band that people claim is art. It's the Gone Homo of music.
>>333384970
>imitation of nature
Nah. Maybe if someones going for a realistic artstyle, not no, not in all cases.
>>333384969
Dude, not him but considering that you are so fucking dumb to claim A) that being profit oriented can ONLY MEAN LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR PANDERING, and B) that music is superior to other forms of art, you really have absolutely no place insulting others for any reason. You are an idiot spewing shitty inflammatory statements that have absolutely zero justifications, completely fail to think things that you are saying through, and generally, you are a acting a lot dumber than you have any right to be. So don't complain about others being teenagers.
>>333378627
It's not art until it's free of criticism.Meaning that developers SHOULD NOT change their game simply because <insert group here> doesn't like it.
>>333385158
>Maybe if someones going for a realistic artstyle, not no, not in all cases.
And you know that abstract visual arts were created as an imitation of music? Saying that music is "the lowest and most pleb" artform is a stupid and ignorant thing to say
>>333378541
>affluent hipster shitheads and trustfund twats lead such frivolous and carefree lives that their escapist fantasies are perpetual misery simulators with no gameplay
"games are art"fags are such ghouls.
>>333385081
>Maybe if you are an ignorant fuckwit
>Whoops! I conveniently forgot to include the meaningful definition of art in my reply about the meaningful definition of art!
Here, I'll give you another chance, shit-for-brains. If you think 'art' has a meaningful definition, please, include it in a reply.
>>333385275
Then maybe you shouldn't go around claiming that music is the highest art, if you don't want to be baited back.
>>333385012
You sound mad as fuck, show me some examples of games that are in all aspects art and not just walking simulators with a boring postmodern story or pretty graphics with bombastic orchestral music and writing good for a pulp magazine
>>333385217
>It's not art until it's free of criticism.
Actually, it's the critic that actually makes it art. Nothing is "made art", things are only declared art by a person or institution of some authority. Critics are a key aspect of this process.
You might make a point that it should be free of POLITICAL criticism, which is a nice little ideal, but really not all that tenable in the long run either.
>In the monochromatic Cart Life, players are immigrants to the US who must eke out a living as street vendors.
Literally what the fuck is your point. You want me to believe they're unhappy because they have to sell food on the street? Yes, right, must be so fucking miserable and unhappy. That's why they all want to go back home to their own countries. You know, where they can SELL FUCKING FOOD IN CARTS ON THE FUCKING STREET FOR PENNIES. Not to mention the daily risk of having your food cart bombed or requisitioned by ISIS.
What the fuck is their point I'm gonna REEEEEEEEE
Why are people so desperate for vidya to be art
>>333385081
Notice the "best" part.
>>333385158
Again, teens, why are they allowed
>>333385165
Why are you so upset, dude? I think being profit oriented inevitably makes whatever is being made worse. This is literally always true.
>>333385394
Icepick Lodge games and Amanita games are a good fucking start. But of course you will immediately go into "nuh-uh they shit!" mode, so I guess this whole debate is doomed to be shit from the start.
>>333385524
It's the only thing going on in their lives, they are desperate for validation by the "adult" world
>>333385012
>who actually genuinely believe games might be the best medium for that
Laughable.
Thinking video games is the best medium for artistic expression is like thinking a child's menu at a cheap restaurant is the best medium for artistic expression.
Of course someone could be retarded enough to believe that, but it's simply laughable.
>>333385519
I fuckimg hate these people who suck immigrant cocks. And my family is made up of immigrants. And no, I'm not mexican, or from the middle east.
>>333385524
>Why are people so desperate for vidya to be art
Because when people debate about what is and what isn't art, they really debate about what is important and what is good. It's absolutely nothing else. It's an argument about the most fundamental MORAL issues of the industry: and when I say moral, I mean it in a broad sense: all judgements that rely on good/bad scale. You might want to say "normative" instead.
>>333378541
>In the monochromatic Cart Life, players are immigrants to the US who must eke out a living as street vendors.
Why don't they go back to school so they can get a better job?
Oh, because the developer wasn't that good.
>>333385390
If your idea of what people think is the best art in music is Death Grips, then you weren't just pretending to be retarded.
The fact that you think that saying something like "music is the best form of art" is inflammatory or "bait" or whatever you subhuman teens say nowadays should be proof alone of how stupid you are
>>333385569
>Notice the "best" part.
You honestly believe that Romanticism is the best art has to offer, in any medium?
>>333385569
>I think being profit oriented inevitably makes whatever is being made worse.
Dude, you do realize that 90% of all art in history, from The Last Supper past the statue of Aphrodite to the Symphony from the New World were COMMISSIONS. Shit that the people did to pay their fucking rent? Are you seriously that fucking dumb that you don't realize: Making shit to make money and making shit to make money AT THE EXPENSE of your own integrity are not always the same fucking thing?
>>333385680
>Thinking video games is the best medium for artistic expression is like thinking a child's menu at a cheap restaurant is the best medium for artistic expression.
Do you have a single fucking argument to back that up, or are you just another cunt talking about shit they don't understand, but really need to prove their superiority to act dismissive towards the medium?
Because that is a statement that is going to require very solid argumentation.
>>333378541
>games HAVE to be about the struggle of being oppressed or having a deadly desease to be considered art
do these people know how retarded they sound?
pretentiousness =! art
>>333385796
>If your idea of what people think is the best art in music is Death Grips,
It isn't. Why are you upset over a bait post you little faggot.
I was just insulting Death grips fags because I fucking hate that band. It was a shitpost, get over it grandpa.
>teens
Gonna call me kiddo next?
>>333385972
>painting powered by Unreal Engine 3
>>333384937
>"games" with trivial levels of interactivity getting heavily recommended on cinematic critera
>video toys are comparable to this
>>333378541
>Yes, games can inform us, create empathy and deepen our understanding of social systems.
Because art is nothing but social issues
Ironically enough this is why no one takes games seriously as form of "art"
>>333386079
>do these people know how retarded they sound?
Well, those people live in a very isolated, bubble words in which it became popular to loudly display your "social awareness" and your "sensitivity to social issues" as one of the last acceptable and generally recognized virtues.
Seriously, everything else that could matter to these people was taken away. They don't have anything else. This is literally the last remaining moral virtue that has not been relativized and dissolved yet.
>>333385217
Nigger don't tell me you don't think that some dude told Michelangelo that Davids dick was to small or some shit like that?
>>333383421
>>333386183
>bob ross paints shit like that in less than 30 minutes
>video games take many dozens of people several years of full time work to create
not only are they comparable, they exceed art in every positive aspect
>>333386393
>>333386298
No, because a small dick is part of the classical canon of beauty and it fully reflects the values of neo-Platonic culture of Renaissance Italy, where carnality was considered something base and trivial that the might of the spirit had to overcome in order to free itself
>>333386457
>>333386457
Is it just me or does the tall building in the middle look kinda crooked?
>>333386443
I severely misread the OP and thought the article was referring to one game
That would make a pretty good WarioWare type game though.
>>333386443
So the Duke Nukem Forever is the best game ever because it was in development for two decades?
>>333385797
Considering there's plenty of good post-Romantic stuff to go with, no, not really.
>>333386048
Those might be works of technical mastery, but they don't do much for me. 90% of art is garbage.
>>333386092
I don't see a "No, I'm not a teen". Ridiculously stupid.
>>333386649
>. 90% of art is garbage.
Are you just trying your absolute fucking best to prove that you are a complete idiot? Nobody gives TWO FLYING FUCKS about you and what you think about those works. If you can't appreciate those works, there is something wrong with you, not with the art itself.
>>333386649
>I don't see a "No, I'm not a teen".
Because a teen would deny being a teen.
>lies on the internet
>>333386543
>>333386649
So you only like art that was never commercialized? That means you are restricted to like some Latin novel written by retired statesmen, a bunch of medieval poetry and maybe some really obscure Romantic and post-Romantic painter and musician
>>333386921
>>333380369
Only 7% of all the wars in recorded history have been religiously motivated.
Of you don't count the ones started by Islam it goes down to 3%.
Alright, lets settle this once and for all: if this post ends in an odd number video games are art; if it ends in an even number they aren't art
>>333385524
>Why are people so desperate for vidya to be art
they're incredibly insecure and want to be justified for all the years they've played video games while their fellow liberal arts graduates laughed at them
>>333387001
>>333386921
I would do anything to live in a place like this.
Just add some snow and it would be perfect.
>>333387139
>>333385524
>So sweetie are you still writing about toys for a living
>GODDAMNIT MOM THEY ARE NOT TOYS THEY ARE VIDEO GAMES AND THEY
>ARE
>AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTTT
Shame. The answer you're looking for is shame.
>>333387342
I love how you sorry shits are literally unable to even conceive other motivations in other people than insecurities. Rather ironic.
>>333387284
And that's all I can find.
Protip: don't make fuckhuge folders with 1700 random images, it's a pain in the ass to find anything specific.
>>333386798
I understand their cultural/historical significance, but on a personal level it doesn't do much. Do you want me to fall head over heels at the sight of La Gioconda too?
>>333386950
You know there' s still art being made, right
>>333383083
>>333379737
the games you're talking about are literally the gaming-counterpart to "I put 3 trashbags in the corner of a museum as symbol for the pollution of our earth and people wil call it deep, thoughtful art" aka modern-art
>>333387453
>You know there' s still art being made, right
Yes, to be sold in the art market
>>333387432
Whatever you say Simon
>>333383083
>>333386249
>no insincere faggotry simulator about being a lulzkilling millennial with too much time on their hands
Just once I'd like to slip into the meddling shoes of little Jasper or Amelia and angst about petty pop culture minutae and social issues while cursing my own whiteness.
>>333387453
>I understand their cultural/historical significance, but on a personal level it doesn't do much.
No one GIVES a fuck. Leaving aside the fact that somebody who claims superiority of music cannot appreciate The Symphony of New World (let me remind you that music is the most mechanical of all arts), this is not a debate about what you personally like or dislike. You can go fuck yourself with that. We are talking about what makes good art. Not what you like in art. You made a statement about ART ITSELF and a role that monetary incentives play in that.
![91sjn2m58tl-_sl1500_[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/cVK0UR9.jpg "91sjn2m58tl-_sl1500_[1].jpg")
>>333387530
>Rembrandt
Are books art?
>>333387778
Yes, but not genre fiction
>>333387628
Aside from the fact that there's still art that isn't sold, you know you can sell something without specifically making it or changing it for profit, right?
>>333387682
Technical mastery alone does not make good art.
>>333387884
Faggot.
>>333379707
basically if they game is depressing and makes you feel bad then it's art.
dude emotional exploitation lmao
I bet all those commercials about dying niggers are actually really deep and meaningful and not just literally soulless cunts looking to make big bux off of tragedy
>>333380472
it's true though
you aren't a scientist, scientists all agree religion has impeded progress for about that amount of time.
![lod-levels[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/77yZTnT.jpg "lod-levels[1].jpg")
>video games
>art
Video games are where you attempt to make art but it's turned into angular nightmares in attempt to get it to run on toasters and children's toyboxes/consoles.
Video games aren't art, they're where art goes to die. You know what video games have? Polycount budgets, bone limits, limited texture sizes, max view distances, etc. Any "artist" that chooses to work in such a restrictive, corporate, meaningless medium is choosing make a shitty consumer product.
>I could be out painting masterpieces but instead I've chosen to squirt paint out my asshole onto old drags as my artistic medium of choice!
>>333386538
>because a small dick is part of the classical canon of beauty
Can you explain the philosophy behind this and when it first became popular?
>>333388135
>Technical mastery alone does not make good art.
Neither does your momentary fancy you miserable pile of shit.
And actually, for the most part it does. It has always been that way. It's even impossible to differentiate between technical mastery and narrative mastery in most of music, as once again, music is inherently a mechanical, mathematical system, and absolute majority of it comes from communication with systems that are far older and far deeper than our abstract reasoning.
But seriously, we have reached the point where you are literally declaring THE ENTIRE WORD, ACROSS VIRTUALLY ALL SOCIETIES AND EPOCH'S wrong because you "feel it different".
You are beyond pathetic: you are certifiably mentally ill.
>>333388630
>You're not a REAL artist unless you paint on >$1k canvas and have been to at least 3 art schools
>>333388630
Are you actually serious? Nobody, nobody in the world has the right to be this stupid.
>>333388630
>art is ONLY visual
Music can be art, gameplay can be art. Videogames are an interactive medium and shouldn't solely be judged on visuals to determine if they are art.
>>333388676
it's kind of the same way fat women were once considered beautiful
don't try to understand old aesthetics
>>333388676
Not him but I know large genitals was considered more bestial, that's why a lot of old paintings of demons had them carrying their junk around in wheelbarrows and shit
>>333378541
>Where were you when vidya became a legitimate art form?
Precisely when self-proclaimed artists only release fucking garbage, while they shit on legitimate works of art like Shadow of the Colossus or Deus Ex which they dismiss as being "too primitive".
>>333389008
Is that what Dante's Inferno was going for?
>>333389162
Pretty much
>>333388630
>This isn't art because of the medium's limitations
Video games can be art.
They also don't have to be - it's completely up to the creator.
A game can be just a game, or it can be something a little deeper. Making the entire issue in to black and white "they are/they aren't" is fucking retarded and I don't get why some people are so vocal about it.
>>333378541
>video games are art
>so they must cater to my retarded ass political views and no one elses, and be censored if they're "offensive"
the fuck is wrong with cucks
