Thanks to Dark Souls, every western indie action game will now be designed around circlestrafe into dodgeroll (in pixelshit 2D / overhead). Recent examples: Hyper Light Drifter, Enter the Gungeon.
How do you feel about that?
Feels fucking great that people are trying to emulate good gameplay.
>every western indie action game
>two games
Pretty great.
Uh, games have been using lock-on targeting and dodge rolls way before Demon's Soul was ever a thing. See: Ocarina of Time
indifferent, I don't play video games
>>333377693
0/10 Hyper light drifter is a bastion rip off and loosely rips off games like Zelda, Transistor and stuff like that...you know a completly different genre. Enter the Gungeon is like Isaac or NT, neither have anything to do with souls either. You underage faggot actually try to bait with being too retarded to know that souls didn't invent rolling? fucking kek.
>>333377915
>what is contemporary influence
I find it oretty.damn shitty that people are now goong to just try to emulate shitty and antiquated as all fuck Japanese game design bullshit tjats boring and slow as all shit.
But the again general audiences are generally ass so i get it but still just cause itd popular doesn't mean i jave to like or aprove of shit i find super shitty
>>333378026
call of duty didn't invent DLC, but it sure popularized it
>>333378110
Thing is that building the combat around dodge makes for a simplistic i-frame gameplay. And they put zero effort in creation of bosses and patterns. Pic related is literally how a boss in Gungeon is designed.
>>333377693
>Eva Green
>Not naked
Didn't think she even wear clothes
>>333377693
And before all of them were shitty 2d sidescrollers with some stupid gimmick
>>333378169
I don't even think call of duty had any DLC until after modern warfare 2
>>333378193
I haven't gotten too far, but ammoconda isn't a blob with circular bullet shots
>>333378362
Nah, it's had DLC since 2 i think, but ti was always down low and didnt have a season pass until blops i think
>>333377693
pppffff indie games AHAHAHAHAHA
faggot op, there is no such thing as dark souls 2d
its all metroidvania
this is why dark souls is so special and now fuck off and do some research before mouthshitting into a place i visit frequently and take your shitty waifu with you fag
>>333377693
I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about, and I don't believe any of that will come to pass. Maybe a few games here and there, but definitely not enough to raise a stink about.
>>333378362
then you're a dumb piece of shit
cod 4 had that one map pack which was kind of testing the waters
waw had three (3) map packs with like four maps for 15 dollars each, I think that's what really got it started
>>333378169
what does this have to do with anything mentioned here at all? Dark souls didn't popularize strafing nor rolls and both were there and popular before you were even born.
>>333378504
name ten games with dodgerolling and strafing before 1996 and I'll leave /v/ for the day
>>333377693
> western
> action
> game
>>333378193
Would you be ok with the mechanic if the bosses were properly designed and the dodgeroll had no i-frames?
>>333378585
you will not hold up your promise, I have zero intesrest in whether you leave or stay and leaving /v/ would be a reward and not a punishment. Why don't you do your own research? It is not my fault that you were born in the late 00's and are unable to use fucking google. inb4 hurr durr prove it over common fucking sense facts. Ill never understand why people ask for proof on simple questions and then move goalposts or say game X doesn't count because made up reasons. Might as well waste my time laughing at your underage stupidity instead.
>>333378750
dodgeroll has to have some i-frames but overall i think it extremely lazy design when done in a game played from that perspective.
in fact the only dodge system i like is the god hand one and it works well in other third person perspective games too. in 2d / bird's eye view its just lazy.
>>333378807
He's right though, most of these San Fran hipsters only know to namedrop Dark Souls and games from xbox360 era.
>>333377693
Enter the Gungeon is a piss poorly made Binding of Isaac, and even that has flaws.
>>333378958
bad taste or butthurt casual? This one shits all over Isaac either way.
>>333378958
>play gungeon
>level 1 is piss easy
>everything takes ages to die
>reload reload reload
>sponge sponge sponge
>reload reload reload
>uninstall
>>333377693
dark souls is relatively old by now, tons of indie action games have been released since and 99% of them arent dark souls-likes
>>333378807
wow, out of all the responses you could pull out of your ass, this is by far the most hilarious one.
you can't even name a single game with dodgerolling and strafing before 96, can you?
you can't even do math properly.
lmaoing @ ur life
>>333378169
No, that was Bethesda you underage retard
>>333378871
>dodgeroll has to have some i-frames
No?
>Dodge into enemy, get rekt
>Dodge inbetween enemies, well done
I´m asking because i think of making a game that has a dodgeroll and I never thought of making it have i-frames. Also, I don´t do pixelshit or plan using circlestafe.
>>333378958
binding of isaac is a poorly made binding of isaac
i'm having a lot more fun with gungeon than I ever did with steakmund's game
and I would liken it more to nuclear throne, with some boi elements
>>333379062
>hurr durr
you could not have proved my point harder than if you tried. Also painfully obvious underage, I feel bad for your parents that raised a literal downie who cannot type 2 words into google, fucking kek.
>this whole fucking movie
>>333377693
If it wasn't dark souls it woulf be something else.
The thing they're copying now not existing wouldn't suddenly make them full of original ideas.
>>333379129
you have to have some i-frames mid-roll.
>>333379042
i have no idea what most indie action games are like. lazy bullet hell shooters?
>>333379160
>can't think of any examples
>better call him underage!
absolutely fef
>>333379285
>fef
you having a stroke there little fella? I think you went way past your nap time and it shows bad.
>>333379264
>you have to have some i-frames mid-roll.
No, I refuse. What now? Explain to me why I´d need i-frames mid-roll.
Now I consider making the player even more vulnerable mid-roll because if you roll on the ground you can´t guard well. Makes you think twice about where you roll when, I think I´ll go with that.
>>333379416
and I think you're a knuckle dragging degenerative shitposter who can barely string enough words together to form a weak insult
but hey, it's nothin personnel, kid. it's not your fault you turned out this way
>>333379491
because it's a nightmare to design a roll hitbox. i'd go with not designing a roll at all. and even if you didn't have i-frames you'd still have to do a proper stagger animation / roll break.
>>333377693
I have never played a good pixelshit 2D indie game. Nothing of value was lost, genre was shit anyway.
>>333379746
iji
la-mulana
>>333377693
>I'LL NEVER BE HER WOMB
WHY
LIVE
>>333379686
in a 2D topdown? I wouldn´t go with a roll actually, more of a sidestep, possible in any direction. Can pretty much have the same hitbox. I don´t see a problem here. For the stagger, I don´t want to half-ass anything so yeah, I´m gonna add a stagger animation.
I´ll see how it plays out, if it´s not working like that I´ll cut it. I don´t want i-frames on something that shouldn´t have i-frames.
>>333380298
>sidestep
this is what i like too. i'd go for a slower paced game, with every misstep being punishable, and add good use of terrain. dota has a good emphasis on positioning when looking at bare bones of its design, range is very important there.
>>333380559
>this is what i like too. i'd go for a slower paced game, with every misstep being punishable
Ok, so sidestep sounds good. Then it shall be that.
>and add good use of terrain
anything particular in mind? I only have tossable objects noted down.
>>333377693
name me a good third person melee action game that DIDN'T have some sort of dodge move
and circle-strafing has been a thing forever, like literally forever, it's a fundamental of any sort of combat sport as well
what is the point of this thread?
>>333380803
things like getting bogged down in mud, hell if you sidestep onto a slope there's a chance to slip,higher ground, stuff like that
it's actually complex stuff to design, that's why western indies opt out for i-frame dodgerolls and teleport dodges.
>>333380827
circle strafing is pretty shit mechanic, look how shit souls combat is, you lock on, circlestrafe and if needed, hug the balls of a gigantic enemy.
>>333380827
mount and blaze
>>333380803
>anything particular in mind?
ripoff dark messiah+divinity original sin and apply it both to the player and to the enemies until you find it balance
>>333380963
>circle strafing is pretty shit tactic, look how shit boxing is, you lock your focus on the enemy, circlestrafe and if needed, clinch the enemy.
it's LITERALLY a combat fundamental, as in: if you are in combat and you aren't doing this, then you will probably lose
moving to blind spots, moving to weak sides, moving to the opposite side of their dominant hand
you can tell you've never been in any sort of fight
>>333381386
what kind of comparison is that? are you mentally deficient?
>>333380908
sounds interesting, I´ll note it down. I´ll hopefully can come back in a couple of years with my game finished.
>>333381198
>dark messiah
Fuck yeah this game did so much right
>>333382162
do you at least have some concept art to post, sketches and the like? what kind of perspective / game design are you emulating?
>>333377693
>western indie action game
Wtf genre is this?
Who gives a flying fuck? I thought /v/ despised indies anyways because muh pixels graphics.
isometric/lock on/ etc has been around for ages. Ocarina of time popularized it. But that was before you were born so you wouldn't remember.
And no, not everyone likes Souls combat, especially casuals. A shit ton of games use invisible lock on or sticky targeting anyways.
You're mistaking souls for God of War. The influence of finishers as QTEs, sticky targeting and combo centric combat was thrust into the mainstream from it.
Shut up.
>>333380963
Circle strafe/lock on is a solution to a problem.
Problem: camera and targeting in free space.
Without constant camera manipulation, you won't see where you're swinging, unless the game is designed as a Platformer or has Zelda-sequel dungeon room layouts.
In indies it is used to compensate for targeting things on screen with a mouse click, because most indies started on PC.
If you think Souls is the start of this mechanic, you're either 13 or played your first video game yesterday.
>>333378169
>call of duty didn't invent DLC, but it sure popularized it
>what is the expansion pack
DLC came about because the internet allowed devs to release small bits of content as DLC instead of a massive xpack. Extra content for a few extra bucks? Seemed like a great idea.
But like true capitalists, devs and publishers realized they didn't actually have to make anything quality, and instead they just had to market existing/planned features as DLC.
It pays off more to market the shit out a game and it's DLC than to spend that money and effort on the game itself. Because consumers are retarded and publishers know this.
>>333377693
Comparing HLD to Dark Souls is more than stupid. Its more like a 2D Zelda game.
Good examples would be Momodora 4, Death's Gambit or Salt & Sanctuary. Also NioH but it isnt indy and looks cool as fuck.
>>333382228
>what kind of perspective / game design are you emulating
alttp-ish
>do you at least have some concept art to post, sketches and the like
not yet, I´m pretty much at the beginning. Also I´m at work right now, but I dug up a webm.Ignore the placeholder character
>>333380803
Yo,
Methodical combat is fine and all, but unless it's fun in practice, it won't work.
Focus of the player is usually the charater and the target, not terrain, unless in a 3D space with obvious visual cues that can be seen even when not focusing on them.
Your mechanic sounds a lot like trial and error, akin to Limbo, Stealth Inc, etcetera. It's very hit or miss. Note that these two examples don't have you fighting, but manipulating the terrain. It's tough to do both as a player.
The missteps in Souls are obvious cliffs or barely visible holes, or poison/flames, which is trial and error to some degree but not present in every encounter.
>good use of terrain
Go for tried and true. Ropes that can be cut to drop things, exploding gunpowder barrels with, hidden walls, ice/slopes that trigger a vulnerable animation, etc.
How about having your weapon interact with the environment?
>sword can ignite when it touches a stationary torch, which can be used to burn wood/grass/ice obstacles or melt enemies
>shield can be used to charge through flames or flimsy obstacles.
>use tables/bulky objects to reach higher ground or block enemy access
>tether a rope to environment to do things
Maybe have your main weapon diminish in strength as the game goes on. Every game does the opposite. Might be cool to kill enemies in one hit at the start, but have it take 3 swings to kill them by the end.
>>333383764
>Your mechanic sounds a lot like trial and error
It´s not only tossable objects. Main fighting tools are sword, shield, bow&arrow and magic.
>Go for tried and true. Ropes that can be cut to drop things, exploding gunpowder barrels with, hidden walls, ice/slopes that trigger a vulnerable animation, etc.
Sounds good
>sword can ignite when it touches a stationary torch, which can be used to burn wood/grass/ice obstacles or melt enemies
I have that in mind, but with magic.
>shield can be used to charge through flames or flimsy obstacles.
Sounds interesting, I´ll think about it.
>use tables/bulky objects to reach higher ground or block enemy access
Maybe.
>tether a rope to environment to do things
Also interesting.
>Maybe have your main weapon diminish in strength as the game goes on.
Interesting, but won´t work with what I wanna do.
Thanks for the input.
>>333378724
voltaire is a good man
