Tltr: Indie dev says: muh freedom, Gibbs datz.
Indie developer wants more money because of "creative freedoms", and not because of the fact that a big team works on an AAA project, were the publisher spend millions into resource and marketing.
Puzzle games like the Wittness or walking simulators fire watch has less or similar gameplay value with free games on http://www.kongregate.com/
Be prepared for indie shills posts.
sure whatever, go ahead and make me consider buying your games even less
>>333250616
>entitlement
I'll never understand this consumer hating nonsense. We're the people supporting, and buying your shit. If you think you can charge more for a product go ahead and do so. Just don't be surprised people when people choose not or just pirate it more.
Fuck I hate that I fell for the Witness meme. God that game sucked.
>>333250616
Based Curve Digital, a literal leading indie publisher, smacking down
>>333250616
Forgotten to included The last text passage:
But Curve Digital’s publishing director Simon Byron says that indie firms are right to compete on price to give them an edge over triple-A releases.
“The indie sector has to work harder to push itself up ahead of gamers buying anything else. Price can be one of the best ways to do that,” he said. “But I don’t think that publishers are undervaluing indie games. From our point of view, we are picking the price points that we know work for the types of games that we are publishing.”
>>333250616
I'm not paying you 60 dollars to make a 1 hour long walking simulator with some political bullshit sprinkled on the top.
>>333250616
it's getting easier to make games so their quality has to go up if they want the money
>>333251346
And with it getting easier the market is becoming incredibly fucking crowded with bullshit. Making the idea of them charging more for average products all the more ridiculous.
>>333251259
Curve Digital are probably the only indie publisher that I can name as successful. They obviously know what they're talking about
>>333250616
>April 1
Haha that's a nice joke article they made
Lots of marxist in the gaming journalism industry for some reason
>>333250616
i also pay more for the local shop then i do at the supermarket, i also payed moer at my hobby shop then i would buying direct
but i still go to the local place
its the same thing
That'll be $60, plus tip.
>>333251528
Leftists have the most punchable faces.
I just wouldn't pay much for a digital game.
If some indies compiled their shit on discs, I'd reconsider. A Wayforward collection with both Shantae eshop games and both MSF games, for example, if pick up in the shop for £25, easy
Funniest thing is that even new games cost 30quits on key shop sites.
>>333251528
Why so fucking self-important? Over a shitty game no less. Even Kojima, as proud as he is isn't so retardedly proud that he takes a pretentious photo like this. I want to punch both of their faces.
>paying $30 or more for a game where the devolper gets all of the money and not a publisher
I hope any indie dev who tries this shit gets pirated out of existence
>>333250616
>This subtle shilling of that website
get out
>>333251528
Why can't they smile?
>>333251508
no it's not, faggot.
>>333251763
90% of the time, no one here even clicks the link.
Market is already overcrowded with developed and game, it's like a bubble that needs to burst in thousand tears of frustration.
Higher production values mean higher costs. When indies start churning out stuff that looks -and- plays like a AAA, then they can charge more and expect sales.
>>333250616
>You are not entitled to being entertained
Well, tough tiddies, because you are not entitled to more than £10 :^)
Honestly though, the low price is what even made this industry possible. No one is going to throw an amount that could almost get him an AAA title at a game that was most of the time developed by a tiny team with no prior releases you could use to gauge the quality of their games.
Also, I am not sure how much the distributors like Steam might interfere, but can't they just set their own prices? If they think they deserve £30, let them try. They will quickly see if the market thinks the same, and the market is the one that decides what they "deserve".
>>333251768
duuhhh I'm stupid! I Like Karate! Dhoyyyy
>>333251735
You don't have to google the site, just read the picture and additional text and post your opinion on indie games for 40 credits.
I don't mind if an indie game is relatively expensive. I just wont buy it
One Way Heroics, spacechem and super house of dead ninja are all cheap as chips and better
>>333250616
He's not really wrong about undervaluation, but it's indie devs themselves that're causing it.
Bundlesites have pretty much guaranteed that unless your game is either the most fucking amazing thing ever, or shilled harder and longer with more eceleb orgasm faces than ever, noone will buy shit for more than $5. They know humble, groupees, or some other fly by night gaping anus will sell it to them with a bunch of other shit later for peanuts.
If indiedevs want more money, they should stop giving their games away for pennies on the dollar in bargain bin packs and then crying they didn't see mad bank from it.
>>333251815
Meant to quote
>>333251735
You entitled money for something that people don't put a high value on. If you sell yourself cheap and wanted more that is all on you. You set the price.
So charge more. Either people are going to be dumb enough to buy your shit, or they'll drop the hot potato.
The latter will, of course, be the audience's fault, not the devs.
>>333251846
There's a middleground between 10 dollars and 60 dollars that isn't being used properly. For instance, it's rare for someone to release a game for 30 dollars.
Also, I agree with this guy. Indie games get undervalued by newbies who don't know what they're doing. Your only choice is to make a quality product and charge more. People who expect to buy all indie games for $10 just won't buy your game but that's fine. Generally speaking higher prices = more revenue.
New multi-player indie game for 5-15 bucks on steam. Buy a copy for me and a friend to play together if it looks cool.
New 60 dollar AAA game comes out. Wait for it to hit 10-20 bucks in a steam sale and buy it.
If indie companies want to make their money they have to compete. When I can buy GTAV or their game for 20 bucks they have to be something special.
>>333251701
>Why so fucking self-important?
Because they made art. Contributing to a socially important cause.
They should make thier game good enough for more people to buy
See: Rocket League, Starjew and Salt and Santuary
But indie games are cheaper and lower quality. Why else were you pricing them that low to begin with? Who cares about your "creativity" how about making something that we want?
did phil fish write this?
>>333252063
If indie devs want more money than they are just regular devs. Something between aaa dev and indie dev.
A indie dev is mostly a small team with one to a few people working on games they like to see because the aaa publisher brings each year the same games on the market.
>>333252120
that's because it's rare for a company to be in the middle ground between indie 1-3 man studio and AAA developer
>>333252306
There's nothing about being a 1-3 man studio that dictates your game should be sold for $10. Plenty of games made by single developers are high quality and should be sold for more than $10, i.e. Stardew Valley.
>>333252250
>implying fish will ever make another game that will be sold
>>333252264
It doesn't matter how big or small their team is, if they hand their game off to groupees in a greenlight bundle, "teehee get us votes get us on steam then we'll make money!", and then get all sore in the ass when nobody buys their shit.
Of course noone buys their shit. They fucking just sold it for ten cents, then marked it up on steam to $10 after everyone already had it. Idiots get what idiots reap.
>>333252063
>noone will buy shit for more than $5
Factorio, Stardew Valley and other games like that seem to be doing well enough.
The thing is that you need to come up with something that hasn't been done to death yet. Another pretentious puzzle platformer won't make you rich, there are already dozens if not hundreds and it is very unlikely that yours will stick out enough to warrant a higher price than all the others.
>>333252409
a game should be priced by how much work is put into it
a 60 dollar AAA game had 100 times the manhours put into it than an average indie game
stardew valley actually deserves it's price because the single developer worked his ass off to make it
They should do that, then they can complain that no one bought their game.
>>333252505
its not even that.. stardew valley has been done to death its just a rip off of harvest moon.
the reason it is succeeding is because he actually finished the game before releasing it.
he didnt put out trash and call it alpha .
>>333252583
A game should be priced by the value it has on the market.
>>333250616
Obvious clickbait
>>333252621
To be fair he made a Harvest Moon game that wasn't a bloated fucking mess, unlike every Harvest Moon game made in more than a decade. He also only charged 15 dollars for it.
Do these indie devs think about the shit they write, they're not this deluded on how the market works right? I guess this is what happens when you choose to study a stupid career like philosophy or game development
>>333252594
Or refund it because of 2 hour gameplay of walking around and listening to an ebook.
> gameplay at is finest.
The gamer wants gameplay and not story driven cinematic entertainment. The market has more gamer than the story driven user.
>>333250616
Maybe we should be charging more for indie GAMES.
And charging absolutely nothing for walking simulator "puzzle games" like The Witness and Firewatch.
I don't give a shit if the crappy 3D graphics cost you a shitload of money to make, if there is no fucking gameplay like Firewatch, or the gameplay is incredibly shit like in The Witness nobody is going to pay $30-$60.
>>333252621
>stardew valley has been done to death its just a rip off of harvest moon.
I know, but the market still isn't oversaturated as fuck with games like that.
>the reason it is succeeding is because he actually finished the game before releasing it.
I wish more people would do that. I fucking hate EA
>>333252845
>nobody is going to pay 30-60
>The Witness
If only I hadn't been a retard. The game took him like 5 to 6 years to make, and that's what he shit out?
>>333252776
>Do these indie devs think about the shit they write
Yes, it's just that the people who spout this nonsense are insufferable, pretentious assholes who are fully convinced of their drivel.
>>333250616
I welcome them to try. No really, raise the price of your walking simulator to $60 and get the money you deserve.
There isn't really much to discuss here, if they want to charge more they could and would if they thought people would buy into it. However many of them are realistic enough to know that only a few die hards would pay over the odds to play their 'experience'. For most people these games offer little novelty which may or may not be worth a $10 purchase. With no brand recognition and little promise of gameplay only the most successful and marketed 'indie' games could hope to price themselves out of the budget range.
Words are free, you can cry all about how underappreciated your medium is until you are blue in the face but without some kind of incentive people aren't going to shell out serious money for a 2-5 hour walking sim.
>>333250616
Aren't their plenty of middleground developers who are creating games for 20-40 dollars like Arma and Wreckfest? What games are actually being undervalued according to them?
I'm willing to pay more if the value proposition is good
I paid the full release price for Kerbal Space Program and felt I got my money's worth
>>333253221
>However many of them are realistic enough to know that only a few die hards would pay over the odds to play their 'experience'.
This. The absolute majority of indie games are stuff you didn't look forward to or anything, you were just bored as fuck and saw something for a few bucks that looked like it could entertain you for a while.
And even with the low price, you can still make a shitload of money. Notch made so much cash that he doesn't even know what to do with it. Fish could retire and become a full time twitter shitposter. Stardew Valley sold almost half a million copies by now and IIRC, it is just a single guy. Even after the distributors took their cut that will still be enough to live comfortably if he is smart.
Don't expect your shitty carbon copy indie game you slapped together in a few weeks to make you enough money to retire though. I think this is the main problem. These people look at massively successfully games and think they can just do the same and release one game and be set for life. It's just the Youtube Hype 2.0
Speaking of piles of shit, did Revolution 60 ever come out?
>>333250616
Why is this a big deal? Devs can charge whatever they want, if you think the price is too high don't pay it.
Are people here really that interested in walking simulators and other creatively bankrupt garbage? I swear people post this stuff just to bitch for the sake of bitching.
>>333252120
The japs are release some of their games at this 30-40 dollar price point. The titles are still niche and by middle sized publishers. But there are companies willing to publish games at that price point. The real issue is that indie games really only have word of mouth as advertising. And the indie creators and publishers hate that the only people that talk about games are these more rabid and niche fans that are even willing to pirate the game let alone pay 5-15 dollars that a lot of them charge.
>>333253685
> professional victim
Kek
Sure go ahead, just be mindful that you would be going up against AAA games and you'll limit your audience by doing so.
That and your 1 hour walking sim would look bad even compared to something like Fallout 4.
Every time one of these articles shows up they're either about games you cannot actually play and would have been better formatted and marketed as an ebook, or some shitty puzzle game with expensive graphics that don't actually need to be there.
If a person can get the same experience out of watching a youtube video of your game instead of playing it, your game isn't actually a game and shouldn't have been marketed as such.
You would think that covers all story heavy games, but Telltale's games, D4, and even fucking Life Is Strange are still actually worth personally playing, because there is some element of gameplay/choice in there. Even if the choices don't really mean all that much or the gameplay is superfluous at best, they at least fucking tried to include a mechanic.
David Cage games are sort of worth playing because of how fucking retarded and melodramatic they are. Too many indie developers want to be David Cage. The only person on the planet that should want to be David Cage is David Cage. If I was David Cage I would want to be somebody who is not David Cage.
The Witness is a shitty Myst, instead of environmental puzzles you do the exact same fucking stupid boring puzzle over and over. If The Witness was a portable game you could play on a train or something it would be completely acceptable, except it is expensive for what it is because it has absolutely pointless 3D graphics and "exploration" elements.
Firewatch is an interactive Ebook. That's all it is. There ain't no gameplay there.
Neither of those are actually worth much as indie video games. They just cost as much as indie video games, because the expense of their development justifies a high price point, probably because spend shitloads on consultants and the aforementioned pointless 3D graphics.
>>333253754
>Why is this a big deal?
It really isn't. Like Anons have already mentioned, if they tried to increase the price above what the games are worth they'd just not sell anymore.
But it is fun to laugh at the impotent rage of pretentious assholes.
>>333253867
the thing is they lack advertising and get by with word of mouth.
>>333253798
>The real issue is that indie games really only have word of mouth as advertising.
To be fair, that also drastically lowers their expenses.
On the other hand it means that they actually have to make a good game. Releasing a pile of shit won't get you any community driven advertising.
Do they seriously think this strategy will ever work?
>>333253934
Yup and without mass marketing seen in AAA games (e.g. posters on buses, trains etc.), you won't get much exposure and the exposure you'll get will be to "savvy gamers" who know how to wait for a sale, pirate or choose more substantial games over it.
>>333253486
Doesn't matter which particular game because of sales.
>>333253925
I get the impression that some people are really offended by this article. The writer has a point but the reality is that there's a lot of shit indie games out there and the only way indie devs can justify charging more is if their game is actually good, which probably means that good devs need to separate themselves from the devs looking for easy money.
>>333253981
Oh hope the game is worth pew or another youtube to "review" it or get a twitch streamer to stream it and hope you get a few sales because of that. Also those people have started charging.
>>333254103
>>333253486
And then you have the consumer on the other side of the market.
so there's even less incentive for me to buy a shitty indie game
good job
enjoy your diminished sales, indie dicks
>>333254004
Also look at how long a game like Minecraft took to truly go "mainstream".
>>333254119
>I get the impression that some people are really offended by this article
I doubt it. It's just the generally more aggressive tone on 4chan that gives of that impression of constant anger.
Because I mean, what is there to get angry about? Even the guy in the article knows that his games aren't worth any more than he is charging for them, because if they were he would just be charging more. He is just complaining because he "feels" like he deserves more and then rants about people "feeling" like they would deserve more if they paid a higher price.
if there motivation is money and getting enough to make a living go make a match 3 puzzle game or an endless runner, cookie clicker game. Use that money to pay for your more "arty" projects and then you can charge whatever you want. Take for example no fiction writer makes money off their novels. They make it off their licensing and if they fall on the academic side they teach or lecture. Same thing with bands and singers, they make their money on the road and through merch.
>>333254197
I feel too many indie devs are banking on becoming the new Minecraft; you honestly can't account on becoming the next big meme (in the literal sense of the word and not LE MAYMAYXDDD) in society in the same way that PSY didn't count on his songs becoming such a hit/meme. It's all up to chance which in my opinion is far too slim to be banking on when making an indie game.
>>333253885
This should be screencapt
>>333251021
I fell for firewatch. Sure the atmosphere was great, but overall I felt it was 5 euro overpriced.
>>333254413
It's the same that happens in every single area.
Someone has a good idea, manages to get lucky and make an insane amount of money with it and then every moron tries to copy that success, completely ignoring the reasons why it was even successful in the first place.
I mean, even companies like Bioware fell for that trap.
>>333254167
>subsidize
Sounds like video game socialism.
These seattle faggots should be happy. They talk about wanting this shit every day.
>>333254413
>>333254660
Everything in the entertainment industry is chance if it is going to be a hit. No such thing as a sure thing and people are fickle.
>>333250616
Charge what ever the fuck you want. The consumer will decide if they are prepared to pay that much.
>>333254737
That is how Fez was made. Canada is sort of like Europe and subsidize and issues grants for animation, movies, tv and video games. The issue in the states is no patron of the arts gives a shit about video games.
>>333253486
They don't care about other games they just want more money
>>333254367
Ubisoft does this, they have their bread and butter casuals hot shit selling games and sometimes their release really nice and different games.
>>333252217
Stardew is fucking amazing got 15 bucks. I compare it to rune factory 4 that's so good. To me at least, don't go bitching if you don't like it.
Anyways, yeah stardew should be a 15$ game which I would say could go up to 20 or 25 when it gets fleshed out more. Compared to the 40$ rf4, I'd still buy rf4 over stardew just because of the amount of content. That's something indie hipsters don't seem to understand. Content = money
>>333254751
That's true, but your already small chances again drastically diminish if you are just copying something that is already successful. Because why buy a clone if you can have the original?
I mean, you might still be able to get a decent wage out of it, but judging by their complaints that is very often not what they were aiming for. What they wanted is that one huge hit that makes them set for life.
They need people to pay more as the truth is very few people buy shit like Gone Home
These are people who can't handle a budget, over pay their staff and situate themselves in SanFran which is fucking expensive. They get free hype from jurno friends but they amount that buy is always very disproportionate
>>333252759
I don't know, if HM is bloated, in comparison to the peak of the series and Rune Factory 3 and 4, Stardew is dehydrated and slightly limp.
The cast is so boring and blur into each other outside the girls that are already hooked.
>>333254103
>HOLY FUCKING SHIT, THE GAMES THAT ARE ON SALE DURING A STEAM SALE ARE THE ONES THAT SELL THE MOST DURING A STEAM SALE
Who'da thunk eh
>>333254924
Has there even been any good HM in the last years? I picked up tale of two towns a while ago but I am really annoyed by the fact that they split crops and cattle between two farms so you can never do both at the same time.
>>333251021
Entitlement is usually used in positive context. Being entitled means that you have the right.
>>333254992
On top of that, it's not like it matters if you sell ten times more if you also had to apply a discount of 90% to achieve that.
Actually, that might even be bad in the long run because who will be willing to pay the full price anymore once it has been at such a high discount?
>>333250616
>PC users will say "Entertain me, I deserve this, I'm entitled to it
>My response is no you're not
YOU ARE WHEN YOU PAY
I hope this was an april fools article
>>333254924
the original harvest moons were streamlined. Game was in phases. you started out doing the work yourself. Then you start to get harvest sprites. Then you could go fuck off and do shit like mining, events etc that would go into getting shit for your farm and house then getting the wife.
>>333253885
Indie devs have become so pretentious since the 2007 XBLA era. Their heads are so far up their asses, that they forgot that games should be fun.
Physics, momentum, inertia. Increasing difficulty, and rewards for having skill. That shit should all be fundamental, and go without saying. Instead we get games made by people that don't even like games.
>>333250616
>"we should be charging more for indie games"
Who is "we"? Do indie developers all operate as a single hivemind?
If you want to charge more - do it and see how that works out for you. This self righteous call to action is laughable and pathetic, as if there's some barrier preventing these fucks from making better games with grander scope and therefore inciting people to pay more.
>>333255338
Well the guy is a games journalist and not part of the fucking pissant gamer base.
>charging 60 dollars for a game with barely effort put into it
I hope they will do it. This would be economical suicide for most devs.
>>333255241
>played Back to Nature as a kid
>never figured out what those gnomes were supposed to do
>did the whole work myself throughout the whole game
>>333250616
>charge more
>get less sales
>woops
Be my guest.
I wanted to play Firewatch, although I wasn't aware it was just a walking sim. The reason I didn't is that its £15. I always check these trophy sites now to see how long a game is, and avoid that <10 hour mark until its pocket change. I didn't even look at videos of The Witness because of its price.
Unfortunately for them, I am entitled to it. If they aren't entertaining me for hours on end they can fuck off. Fall down a well for all I care.
i don't give a fuck if a game is indie or not. the witness was way more valuable to me than something like assassin's creed and i'm totally fine with paying 40 for it.
>>333255157
That's the point too, these devs allow the prices to go so low. As a AAA example, take Nintendo of old. Prices very rarely dropped, yet sales continued. Obviously game quality has something to do with this. Nintendo rarely drops their prices and thus people come to terms with the prices they have to way. Once people see a $10 for $2, they are going to massively devalue it. If you kept that $10 game at $8-$10, people wouldn't care and just suck it up and buy it. Giving streamers a free copy would do more for their word of mouth than a huge discount any day.
>>333251423
>indie publisher
Ubisoft is obviously the best indie publisher, followed by Electronica Arts.
>>333251460
And they all fall for the same lies from their friends that keep telling them "It will be okay! They will buy it! What you do is important!" only to find that nobody cares about their cancer kids or black housekeepers.
>>333254367
If it's that fucking easy, you do it. There is no quick road to vidya cash, period. You're actually comparing a band selling merch at a show to some dev making a phone game clone. Do you even think before you type?
If you pay 60€ for 6hour callyadooty you can pay 30€ for 3 hour visual novel, what's the deal?
>>333255338
These people operate under the assumption that any type of group is linked and must behave as a unit, from race to sex to job
>>333252935
I don't understand how anyone fell for this.
>>333255696
What I'm saying that when you make certain ventures into making things and selling them. Your main source of income isn't always the the thing you are making to sell. Most of the time it is the other things related to that makes your income.
brehs, don't assume all indie devs are this retarded. Some of us are considering making indie games even more cheap. I'm friends with quite a few gamedevs who have released games on steam and we always laugh at our fellow colleagues who even think about charging more than $10 for their shitty pixelshit.
im charging a penny for my next game im gonna be rich as fuck
>look-up the entitlement whiner on twitter
>"ex-journo"
>>333250616
>"The bigger challenge is changing what consumer perception of just what indie means. It doesn't mean cheap and low quality, but instead more creative freedom and agile approach to both business models and consumers"
If consumers decided that your little walking simulators and pixelshit games are "cheap and low quality" then they are. You do not get to decide what consumers think.
>"You're not entitles to entertainment
If I pay for your "game" than I am entitled to entertainment. You, on the other hand, are not entitled to peoples money.
Looking forward to seeing more indieshits throw twitter tantrums when their shitty "games" don't sell as much as they wanted them to.
>>333250616
Team17 is not even a indie dev.
> founded 1990
Miami Chase (1990)
Alien Breed (1991)
Cardiaxx (1991)
Full Contact (1991)
Marbles (1991)
Alien Breed: Special Edition (1992)
Apidya (1992)
Assassin (1992)
Project-X (1992)
Alien Breed II: The Horror Continues (1993)
Body Blows (1993)
Body Blows Galactic (1993)
F17 Challenge (1993)
Overdrive (1993)
Silverball (1993)
Superfrog (1993)
Qwak (1993)
Alien Breed: Tower Assault (1994)
Arcade Pool (1994)
Super Stardust (1994)
Ultimate Body Blows (1994)
Alien Breed 3D (1995)
Arcade Snooker (1995)
ATR: All Terrain Racing (1995)
Kingpin: Arcade Sports Bowling (1995)
Worms (1995)
Alien Breed 3D II: The Killing Grounds (1996)
The Speris Legacy (1996)
World Rally Fever (1996)
X2 (1997)
Worms 2 (1997)
Worms: The Director's Cut (1997)
Addiction Pinball (1998)
Nightlong: Union City Conspiracy (1998)
The Full Wormage (1998)
Phoenix (1999)
Pinball Madness 2 (1999)
Worms Armageddon (2000)
Onlineworms (2001)
Stunt GP (2001)
Worms World Party (2001)
Worms Blast (2002)
Worms 3D (2003)
Worms Forts: Under Siege (2004)
Worms Golf (2004)
Worms 4: Mayhem (2005)
Army Men: Major Malfunction (2006)
Lemmings (2006)
Worms: Open Warfare (2006)
Worms (2007)
Worms: Open Warfare 2 (2007)
Worms: A Space Oddity (2008)
Worms 2: Armageddon (2009)
Leisure Suit Larry: Box Office Bust (2009)
Alien Breed Evolution (2010)
Alien Breed 2: Assault (2010)
Alien Breed: Impact (2010)
Worms: Battle Islands (2010)
Alien Breed 3: Descent (2011)
Worms Crazy Golf (2011)
Worms Reloaded (2011)
Worms Ultimate Mayhem (2011)
Worms Revolution (2012)
Superfrog HD (2013)
Worms 3 (2013)
Worms Clan Wars (2013)
Flockers (2014)
Light (2014)
Worms Battlegrounds (2014)
The Escapists (2014)
Beyond Eyes (2015)
Worms WMD (2016)
Yooka-Laylee (2016)
Allison Road (2016)
Way to the Woods (TBA)
>>333256148
What it comes down, it has already been said in this thread. Every indie dev in north american think they have a shot at being the next Minecraft. Also remember that Minecraft wasn't really a true "new" idea. Infiniminer was a thing.
>>333256162
Honestly at shit point they might as well be.
worms is pretty much the only thing they have that sells and it doesn't make much at all these days and is making less and less money.
Why don't they just raise their price then? Nothing's stopping them. Oh right, because sales will plummet and they'll bitch about how the market is somehow rigged against them.
>>333255910
I mean the price of a good is really about being competitive with what is available in the market. If there's a suitable substitute for your specific project at $N, then charging $2N is probably not that smart.
There's plenty of room for Divinity: Original Sin at its price point, but not a lot of room for Atari E.T. clones at that price point.
>>333254103
If your game offered a better value you could not put it on sale and still expect it to sell, when compared to what the competition offers.
This is basic fucking economics, christ.
>>333256265
>Also remember that Minecraft wasn't really a true "new" idea. Infiniminer was a thing.
Yeah, but you essentially only have one shot per generation at being the big thing in your area. As long as no one else has made it yet it doesn't matter if your idea is 100% original or not.
>>333256695
That is, relatively speaking. Obviously an inferior product will sell more if it is a tenth of the price of a superior product, with some given implications.
>>333256265
I still blame Minecraft for creating the Indie shit boom. Before Minecraft the term "indie" wasn't abused as badly as it is now. Indie devs also weren't entitles little cunts who screech when their games don't sell well and blame everything on their consumers/potential consumers. It is never their own fault, not even a little. It's all the potential consumers fault for not wanting to spend money on a "game" where you hold up for an hour while someone talks in the background.
>>333251021
>indie devs complain about entitlement
>yet imply that they are entitled to your money, whether you like their work or not
Dom4 was originally priced at 40 bucks. It's presentation is simple as fuck, but the gameplay and the depth are amazing. And they deliver content and patches even years after launch.
So far it has entertained me for 700+ hours with many more to come. In this case the higher price is justified.
But if they think I'll play the same price for a 2 hour "experience" abandoned after launch, they are retarded.
>>333257003
Blame Braid, because Blow is ground zero for fart sniffers.
>>333252583
Things are priced by how much people are willing to pay. How much work has been put into it is kind of irrelevant. especially when it comes to software.
>>333255241
>>333255426
wait, are you saying that those little assholes can do the farming for you?
>>333256162
They're 'independent', so yeah they are indie. Just not a little team of pink-haired 20-something "gender-fluids" with degrees in journalism and gender studies, out to 'defy the status quo' as if it were a boogeyman hiding under their MLP sheets.
Insomniac and Crytek have made AAA but they are independently owned and operated.
>>333257365
Not all of it, but if you kept them happy enough you could assign them to tasks like feeding your cattle or watering your plants. Not sure anymore if they could also harvest.
> A staggering 57 percent of all indie developers (team members and solo developers) reported less than $500 in income from game sales.
If they double the price they double the income.
>>333257003
My game didn't sell even 1000 copies in 6 months and I don't blame consumers.
In fact, consumers (the little we have) are pretty cool. I blame our marketing (that sucked balls) and reviewers that gave a game a bad grade because it's too hard, but didn't play more than 30 minutes (and it shows in the reviews).
>>333257450
There are simply too many little studios trying to get in on the action. Some of them need to band their efforts and funding together, and aim for higher production values and bigger markets.
>>333250616
THE
CUSTOMERS
ARE
ALWAYS
RIGHT
Didn't they teach you that in business classes?
>>333257450
Should filter out projects that are complete failures.
People that don't make sales can't afford to pay themselves wages. They should be getting jobs.
>>333257450
This is stupid, it's like saying "a staggering 99% of all self-publishing writers reportedly make less than $10 a year from book sales on Amazon's self publishing store".
These are not "game developers", some rare few are, but most are just like a person who writes in his free time and calls himself an author.
>>333257617
>social studies classes
*Fixed
>>333257135
>Entitled for expecting a better game
>But justice is on my side for expecting agenda pushing
>>333257450
>If they double the price they double the income.
If they double the price they would sell less and probably have a lower income.
>>333250616
You know why it's a buyer's market? Because the market is absolutely flooded with products. It isn't entitlement. It's the first thing they teach you in economics.
But go ahead charge $60 dollars for you indie game. I'll be just as likely as I am to buy any other $60 dollar game.I have never spent $60 on a video game.
>>333257634
> b.. But my annual wage is 80k. Please by my games
>>333257860
>$60 dollars
>60 dollars dollars
Why did I do this? I am going to sleep.
>>333257979
Good night.
>>333257538
Marketing is a big problem in my opinion.
Back when Steam was more of a walled garden I thought it would give exceptional indies a chance for a spot in the sun, since there wouldn't be 40 games a day released.
But when the flood gates opened that was doomed. Now indie devs have to actually invest in shilling or otherwise find a way to make a buzz about their game.
No way they can rely on game bloggers who seem to hate their jobs and games in general.
I think people should probably worth of mouth games they think are good more rather than giving attention to games they hate. A lot of people will spend an hour complaining about a shitty game, but just play a game they like and fuck off.
>expecting to make any profit as a newcomer in an over-saturated market
>>333251528
>giving money to people who look this fucking pretentious.
>>333257450
>>A miniscule 8 percent reported profits on paid alpha sales
Poor babies not getting paid on promises they almost never deliver on.
>>333258050
Our game is on Wii U, not Steam, because it uses the gamepad.
Supposedly, as Wii U doesn't get so many releases per week as Steam, it should be more visible. I know that the user base is much less on Wii U than on Steam, but still, less than 1000 copies in 6 months is shit.
Even with sales, things don't get better. In fact, the game is in sale right now, and I don't think the numbers are very different than when we don't have, and we are getting half of the money.
Right now, you depend on marketing more than ever, and being a small studio, you can't afford it. What can you do? Make games that the blogs will shill for you, AKA SJW games.
If you're trying to make a traditional game (even if you try to introduce innovation, like we tried to do with the gamepad) you are fucked unless you invest A LOT in marketing or you are one of those games that came out of the first Kickstarters, which had publicity because they were the first.
So, we are in the worst situation:
- No Kickstarter, development was paid using our savings
- No "progressive themes" so we don't get free publicity for that
- Traditional game, not a walking simulator nor "muh feels" experience
- On Wii U
- Very bad marketing, lead by a person who though just a pair of press releases would do the trick.
- Reviewers didn't try to play the game. The ones who did gave us a good score (more than 6), the ones who said "fuck it, this is too difficult" didn't play more than 30 minutes as I said.
- Metacritic uses the bad reviews because the good ones don't meet their "quality standards" so we have a shit average score. People sees this and doesn't want to buy.
- Some troll began spamming bad user scores (in only a day we went from having an 8 avg user score to a 5).
We're fucked.
Buy my game and stop abusing refund.
>>333250616
Maybe if they put more effort into their work than possibly, no more lazy "retro" pixel shit games please.
The Witness has been out since January 26 and has been $40 the vast majority of that time (currently on sale). 91K people own it on Steam.
Hyper Light Drifter came out on March 31st and is being sold for $18. Almost 70K people own it on Steam.
Stardew Valley has been out since February 26th and is being sold for $15. 836K people own it on Steam.
Charge more money for your indie game, see how it sells.
I think we should encourage them to raise their prices.
Maybe then they will see that the speshul snowflakes they're advertising to actually don't buy video games.
Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it. If no one buys a shitty indie game at $30 then guess what, it's not worth $30.
>>333257750
I think thats the joke
>>333250616
>we should be charging more
Dare you to do it fag. Then your game doesn't sell because the invisible hand of the market exists and you piss and moan about how 'if Bernie were president he wouldn't let this shit fly'
If there's one thing I appreciate on Steam's audience is how "entitled" they are towards indies. While those shitheads get away with exorbitant prices on other platforms, mustards won't spend more than $10 on their shovelware.
>>333257179
Looks like a multiplayer specific game. Is it any good in singleplayer?
>>333259890
This. Charge whatever you think your game is worth, but if it doesn't sell at that price, it's because your potential audience disagrees with you.
>>333258667
>(even if you try to introduce innovation, like we tried to do with the gamepad)
>- Traditional game
Well, which one is it?
>>333258667
Go on then, tell us what the game is.
>>333251423
This. When an actual successful publisher of indie games says there's no problem, YOU'RE obviously the problem
That's not how the economy works, you indie retard. Price is an indicator of value. Price is determined by how much demand there is for your product. You can't just artificially increase the price because you think you deserve more cash, it has to be in response to consumer demand.
What are they gonna do? Make me buy your shitty games at gunpoint? I will buy your games when i want to have them. Theres such an incredibly high amount of trash floating around. If anyone is entitled, its the wannabe indiedevs.
>>333250616
But, the market decides what your product is worth. Put the price up, and if people don't buy it, then it was not worth that by default.
You're not entitled to big money just because you made something in a medium that can make big money.
>tfw making an indie game and worried ill fall into this way of thinking
>>333261135
>fuck the market, I set the price and value myself
Just like socialism.
>>333261586
But art is actually expensive than a normal product.
Fire watch, gone home, all those digital products are a visual novelty expierince with deep and emotional gameplay brought through the game platform. I think people should pay a bit more to show the appreciate of art.
>>333250616
as someone who's going to be trying for kickstarter with his 6-months-in 2-man-team UE4 builder game project, fuck this attitude
i'm a dev but i'm also a gamer - the market price is whatever we can make most money from - not some arbitrary "we're entitled to charge you $50 like AAA studios" bollocks
price should be based around how many hours the product will entertain you for
if it ends up that our game only entertains people for 10 hours, i'll feel bad about charging much more than $10 for it
if people really like it like skylines, we might go up to $40 or something
>>333261762
I can shit on your head and call it art. But even then it ain't worth shit.
>>333250616
I'm an indie developer and I never understood this shit.
If I sell a game for 15 bucks and sell 10 thousand copies I can survive for at least 2 to 3 years more to make another game.
I think the real problem here is they are spending tons of money on these "indie" games and using the label basically to mean "artistic game" and not just something independently developed.
The Witness and Firewatch are pretty bad games to use to state your case considering both of them were massively underwhelming and overpriced.
Firewatch is barely less jewish than fucking Gone Homo was.
>>333252583
Thing's are not priced based on the amount of work put into it, it's priced based off what the market will pay for it.
You didn't even take economics in high school, this is really sad.
>Make a walking simulator and have it cost something like $5
>Make "donation" DLCs so people who feel like giving you more money for your shitty walking sim can
Pretty sure nobody would actually buy them, but it's a thought I guess. Don't most of these people make bank off Patreon anyways?
>>333250616
Firewatch wasn't worth a fucking dime
>>333255338
No indie devs aren't.
It's actually interesting because a lot of indie devs are just really normal people you will never hear about because the only indie dev's that can get any coverage have to be otherkinds who are familiar with people in the industry or oppressed enough to get noticed.
That is why you never really hear about the normal indie dev's. The only indie dev who isn't a faggot who got a massive amount of coverage are probably Team Meat and they eventually said fuck you to the entire clique that was created around "indie" games.
>>333260539
>>333260523
Sales right now
>>333262609
The first one has a lot of reviews with terrible scores based upon it being too hard so that looks like a good fit.
I liked the complaint about drawing skill for a game that apparently lets you paint camouflage to get around enemies.
>muh consumer entitlement
Fucking indie divas
>>333250616
It's unclear why they think griping about it will make things better. It's also unclear why they think insulting their customers is a good idea. Very few market sectors have people who repeatedly put down their customers in public.
>>333250616
Indies devs in a nutshell
"Fucking gamerz are entitled neckbearded lozerz"
>"gibe us more monies because we're entitled to it"
>>333250616
Exactly the opposite is true. AAA games should be cheaper.
$80 for Assassin's Creed is abhorrent. Never mind all the rest of the drivel.
>>333265893
Well, just buy new releases on key shop. There is a reason why console games are so expensive.
>>333250616
bc all of them are leftist normies who think you should be able to crap out a half finished walking simulator for 30 pounds made in unity 1.0 instead of spending tons time on a great story, good gameplay and charming graphics
That entitlement quote made no sense. The consumers and developers are free to demand whatever they want from the other partner and if they can't come to an agreement then tough shit.
>>333250616
>The majority of indie games are sold for $10 or less
That's a blatant fucking lie right there at the start. They're usually between 20 to 40 bucks.
>>333250616
Seriously, what's wrong with those indie devs?
>those stupid consumer, fuck em all.
>buy my game you shitlords
>nobody bought my game, why is everyone so entitled?
>the gov should pass a bill that forces people to buy my game
>those stupid consumer, fuck em all.
I've been working on my game for two years and I'm either gonna have it for free
I made sure to have myself be the only person on the project so I wouldn't have to charge any money. I just wanted to make a game I would like to play.
>>333266786
Either gonna have it for free or make it dirt cheap*
