>b-but muh Zelda Cycle!
Mark my words, 5-10 years from now this game will still be just as ridiculed as it is today. It'll forever be remembered as the ugly duckling of the mainline console titles and no amount of bitching will ever change that.
But it is better than both wind waker and twilight princess
>>332558021
Both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess at their absolute worst are better than Skyward Sword at its absolute best.
>>332557908
Remember when it first came out and everyone was saying it was better than Ocarina of Time?
>>332557908
I thought it was pretty good.
>>332558141
Ehh. WW is my absolute favorite Zelda and top 5 comfiest games. TP I felt was too similar to OoT, but still decent.
Whatever "Zelda cycle" there is was broken by SS. Even after 5 years it is still regarded as one of the weakest titles in the franchise.
>>332558358
The only people I recall saying that were the journoshills.
>>332558527
It also broke the "Zelda cycle" because it didn't stop Twilight Princess from being shit.
>>332558358
>Remember when it first came out and everyone was saying it was better than Ocarina of Time?
You're joking, right? Because I remember the exact opposite.
The truth?
Most all Legend of Zelda games are very good. Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Link to the Past, Majora's Mask, Ocarina of Time, etc. There's very few Zelda titles that are not highly entertaining.
Skyward Sword is the weakest entry in the series. Not just because of motion controls, but because of bland design.
>>332558712
>Twilight Princess from being shit
Skyward Sword is awesome, except for that monsters inc boss, what the fuck, I almost quit the second I saw it.
>>332558358
Those were the paid reviewers and shills.
>but those don't exist ecks dee
>>332557908
I agree, unless of course Zelda Wii U/NX somehow ends up being just irredeemably awful. If that happens SS will probably be remembered more fondly, even if it's only because "Well it wasn't great but at least it was as bad the fucking NX one".
I really quite enjoyed playing it.
I enjoyed it for a bit. But then the gimmicks got old and I started wanting the game to be over asap.
Same shit with TP on the Wii.
Don't hold your breath. There's been a poster here who has been arguing up and down that SS has the best overworld of the 3D Zeldas. It's only gonna get worse.
>>332557908
>b-but muh Zelda Cycle!
I haven't seen a single person use this as a defense for SS.
>>332557908
For every one person who says he liked this game (both when it was released and/or now) there is going to be 10 people who look at that post and shitpost about MUH ZELDA CYCLE
Reminds me of how people dont actually know what the fuck the Sonic cycle was (because it hasnt been a thing since fucking black knight/unleashed)
>>332564854
That poster is fucking retarded. Nobody likes corridors and hallways and empty hubs.
>>332557908
I love Skyward Sword, you colossal faggot.
>>332558141
I'm a TPfag but the Tears of Light quests and Dominion Rod subquests are absolutely not better than the whole of Lanayru Desert.
>>332564854
That's very clearly shitposting, but people liked Skyward Sword when it came out. They hated it too. Skyward Sword's divisive, it's always been divisive.
>>332557908
I get legitimately upset when I remember Skyward Sword.
>>332557908
After playing Twilight Princess HD, TPHD is absolutely weaker than Skyward Sword.
Also, if you can't get the motion controls to work in SS, you are a fundamentally broken human being.
>>332557908
I loved the game. I thought WW was crap and never played TP.
It's not a bad game though
Controls are great unless your pretending you have carpel tunnel
The only real flaws are the handholding and the linearity due to the sky's Map, otherwise the areas themselves are very explorable
>>332565670
Probably because you have autism.
>>332565816
I can get the controls right, I just don't like the motion controls in general.
>>332565236
>>332565524
I liked SS too but it's abundantly clear that they tried to blend fields and dungeons to the great detriment of general exploration. It's different but that overworld was NOT better unless you liked being railroaded harder than Spirit Tracks, and that game had trains as its central gimmick.
>>332557908
No way. Skyward Sword wasn't very good, but it was way better than Twilight Princess. The only reason that over done piece of shit gets all the recognition is because it was a lot of underage twats first Zelda game and girl gamers like it.
>>332566190
Oh, by overworld you meant the fields outside of the dungeons? Those were pretty fun. I thought you meant the sky, the sky sucked terribly.
Reminder that the only reason people like WW is because of its art style and nostalgia
>>332566979
I consider "not dungeons" to be the general overworld, and SS's wasn't awful on the whole but it's pretty unbalanced in favor of linear puzzle progression.
>>332557908
Ridiculed? By who?
/v/?
fucking Arin "cuck" Hanson?
The real world loves this game, and rightfully so. It's a good game.
>>332568247
>The real world loves this game
I know a ton of people that played this game IRL and they all range from "meh" to "I hated it".
Your precious hallway simulator is shit, get over it.
>>332568247
>The real world loves this game
Most gamers I talk with say they hate it...
>>332557908
I still don't like SS, TP or WW.
>>332557908
I know is a bad Zelda, but I like it and enjoyed it. I don't give a shit about others opinions.
Does anyone still have the SS "what I expected / what I got" image?
Whatever happened to the Zelda Valley of the flood game that was coming out?
Or gates of the realm?
Fuck that 3D noise, what does /v/ think the best top-down Zelda is? ALBW master race. It brought variety back into Zelda that will hopefully carry into Zelda U/NX/Whatever the next fucking one is.
>>332569806
Majora's Mask and Oracle of Seasons + Ages are the best Zelda games. It's that easy.
I liked it. The art style is easy on the eyes, the controls were actually good, despite the meming about it.
I'll rate it a solid 7/10
i want to fuck a fish
>>332569954
The Oracles were very good, forgot about those. Most people do. I would settle for a ALBW-ish remake of both, maybe with Links Awakening too.
>>332570162
forgot my pic
>>332557908
It'll probably get a better rep than it has now as people start to feel nostalgic for it, especially since it'll likely be a one off experiment in the long run now that Nintendo's moved away from motion, but I don't really see it getting the same cult following MM, WW and TP got.
The Wii's motion controls already show their age and make the game pretty inaccessible to most people since you're required to use the motion plus peripheral to play it.
>>332569806
Link's Awakening was the most fun on a first playthrough but I find Link to the Past infinitely more replayable since the dungeon order is pretty nonlinear and the overworlds way less labyrinthine.
>>332568247
Hahaha arin is a cuckold.
>>332569787
That was just a shitty troll image that got spammed over /v/.
If you seriously want a steam punk Zelda then just go ahead and kill yourself
>>332557908
Skyward Sword was the first Zelda game I've played and it's not so bad to be honest. I've never finished any Zelda game since, though.
It's a great game. Looks gorgeous when emulated, some of the best dungeon design in the series, excellent music and a lot of very clever things done with the controls.
But most people here are mongoloids who don't understand game design and want Zelda to be Dark Souls or Skyrim or some shit. They'll criticize it with a lot of meaningless buzzwords in order to sound smart without actually saying anything.
The only thing that bothers me about this game is that there really isn't an overworld at all, even the "outside" areas are basically just puzzles. Oh, and the controls are far from perfect. They did cool things with them, but the controller just does not work the way it needs to.
>>332565476
I understand why someone would dislike the Tears of Light quests, but the Dominion Rod quest seems fine to me. What's so bad about it?
>>332557908
I liked it the day it came out
>>332557908
>no amount of bitching will ever change that.
But ZeldaNXbeing somehow even worse could.
>>332571185
>some of the best dungeon design in the series
I actually thought it had the worst dungeons out of all the 3D games. The only two that stood out were the Ancient Cistern and Sandship, with the rest being totally forgettable or over in a flash. Even Wind Wakers left a bigger lasting impression and while I'm a fan of that game its dungeons are not its strong suit.
The Lanayru sections were well done and the music is good like you'd usually expect from Zelda, but the Wii didn't really take advantage of the games aesthetic at all and the rest of it was repetitive fetch quests and simon says combat.
I don't really think it deserves hate the same way games like Sticker Star and Other M get so much negative feedback, its not really offensive. It's just fucking boring as hell.
>>332568247
>>332569261
>>332569326
>>332557908
It was okay for a video game, average for a Zelda game, which is why it gets all the hate.
Everyone remembers the shitty parts, but this game still had redeeming segments.
The sand ocean was fucking awesome.
Groose being a dick, but then turns out to be the best bro you ever had.
>>332558021
came here to post this
>>332557908
SS is better than TP and WW in terms of dungeons, artstyle, combat, supporting characters, andoverworld.
I bet you attacked The Imprisoned's toes.
>>332557908
I've got a lot more respect for it than something like Twilight Princess. It actually brought a lot of new, good ideas to the table, ideas I'd like to see revisited and improved in future Zelda games. Twilight Princess, while enjoyable, brought nothing to the series. Compared to a lot of series, despite criticisms to the contrary, Zelda actually does make an effort to switch things up and keep the experience fresh. Twilight Princess didn't make that effort, Skyward Sword did.
>>332572119
>and overworld
How
The surface sections are functionally mini-dungeons. The actual overworld is the sky which is an empty void with one town and a bunch of treasure chests.
>>332562092
Monsters Inc. describes at least 3 of the bosses.
>lizafos battles with the wiimote
I just slashed like crazy and hoped for the best
>>332571185
>But most people here are mongoloids who don't understand game design and want Zelda to be Dark Souls or Skyrim or some shit. They'll criticize it with a lot of meaningless buzzwords in order to sound smart without actually saying anything.
Oh please. Dark Souls and Skyrim are nothing fucking alike. Regardless of what you otherwise think of the game, modern Zelda wishes it returned to the kind of progression that Dark Souls hadbut holy shit who's idea was it to only have the guy in red give you the key to drain the place after you get the Lordvessle? That's just fucking stupid.
>>332565860
This.
Take off these two things you mentioned and then you have a game that's better than TP and WW.
>>332572367
Nah, only the Kraken was bad, the others go from acceptable to great.
BOMB BOWLING
O
M
B
B
O
W
L
I
N
G
I dunno, I liked it
>>332573218
I like the boss battles. I'm just saying that in addition to Tantalus, Scaldera and Bilocyte also look like Monsters Inc characters. Scaldera is red mike and Bilocyte is mike's girlfriend with webbing, whatever her name is.
>>332572280
>The surface sections are functionally mini-dungeons.
Yes, this is much better than a Zora's Domain or Dragon Roost Island prefacing a dungeon.
>The actual overworld is the sky which is an empty void with one town and a bunch of treasure chests.
The Sky is much better than OoT's, MM's, or TP's empty fields and it's better than the Great Sea just by virtue of how much faster it is to move through. Plus you have the actual 'provinces' when you compared it to WW and that game's shitty islands. Goddess chests at least have free quivers or bomb bags. WW is full of heart containers you don't need. I liked that all my shops and most of the side quests were in the same one town. I was way more likely to do them that way compared to someone needing help in a town I'll visit twice or less.
I liked it
It established a ton of lore and had a pretty tight end boss, not to mention made canon that link and zelda fucked like rabbits on the surface
it had a lot of likable characters but absolutely denied any sort of replay when it stops you in your tracks every 5 minutes to explain something
>>332573707
>The Sky is much better than OoT's, MM's, or TP's empty fields
Opinion invalidated, fuck off.
>>332573660
This and pocketing bomb flowers were great additions.
>>332571491
Not that anon but
>go to ilia in kakariko
>smell the medicine in hyrule castle town
>fight the skeleton dogs that only appear at night
>get the idol and take it to ilia in kakariko
>go to hidden village and get horse call
this is the worst possible scenario (everyone's first time)
>go back to ilia at kakariko
>go back to hidden village to get the book
>go back to kakariko to shad
>make a nice big lap around all the hyrule field sections
Shit was tedious even if you show Impaz the rod on your first visit.
>>332574218
Great argument.
>>332573707
>empty
That word doesn't mean what you think it means.
WW's Great Sea actually contained a ton of different collectible shit even if a lot of it was not very useful, and I don't know why you're whining about the travel time when that was fixed in HD.
SS's sky in comparison is significantly emptier. There was no reason for it to lack THAT much content considering that the main island and Pumpkin Landing were the only two locations in the entire map that weren't just floating rocks. At least many of WW's islands had a puzzle or two to solve.
>>332574878
No, You're a great argument.
>>332557908
I really liked the combat and the first time I played SS was 3 months ago.
>>332573707
>Yes, this is much better than a Zora's Domain or Dragon Roost Island prefacing a dungeon.
Maybe the Lanayru sections.
Faron Woods and Eldin Volcano had a terrible habit of repeating the same shit over and over again. You climb Eldin on the same route three different times, once as an escort mission and once as a stealth mission. You do a fetch quest in the same Faron Woods location three times, with the audacity of making you redo a dungeon and forcing swimming controls into one of them.
It's like an entire game built from the padding segments of Twilight Princess. I have no fucking idea why they designed the overworlds around linear dungeon gameplay then had you trek through them four different times over the course of the game. By the time you were getting the song I was exhausted with them.
>The Sky is much better than OoT's, MM's, or TP's empty fields and it's better than the Great Sea just by virtue of how much faster it is to move through.
How the fuck do you call Hyrule, Termina and the Great Sea empty and then praise the Sky?
It takes even longer to traverse the sky and it has a fraction of the amount of things to do in it. If you replaced the entire thing with fucking Mario 64 paintings the game would be outright better for it because recycling the island system without any of the things that made the Great Sea work was such a waste of time.
It also controlled like complete ass.
>>332567406
It sure as fuck wasn't the dungeons.
>>332573707
>just by virtue of how much faster it is to move through
It actually takes quite a bit of time to move from one side of the sky to the other, and unlike the games before it, it was actually LITERALLY empty.
>>332558141
Sorry man, but the dungeons in SS were qual-ee-tee.
But man, that overworld was easily the weakest of the three.WW the best, if you like sailing.
>>332576618
It also never added a quicker mode of transporation.
OoT, MM, WW and TP give you thinks like Epona, the swift sail and warp points by the time you'll be doing a lot of backtracking around the overworld to speed up the process of getting around on the field.
Skyward Sword has the bird statues on the surface when you're using the level select columns but you never get something like a faster loftwing for maneuvering around the sky itself.
>>332557908
But I've always liked it.
>>332575539
>even if a lot of it was not very useful
When I replayed WW(HD) for the first time in years I had stopped going to the extraneous islands and exploring because the rewards weren't worth it.
You're even making the mistake I already talked about, which is comparing only the Sky to the Sea when SS also has areas you can land in that are much better than any island in WW.
Plus the Great Sea is tedious to transverse until you get the warp. This isn't just plain and simple fixed in HD, you have to deal with the auction minigame. Is really is this such a great fix just that it's faster? It's still empty as fuck because the rewards for exploring are useless and therefore the islands containing them are useless. It's not like the "use the hookshot" or "press the switch" puzzles are exactly worth mentioning in WW. Goddess Cubes and the occasional puzzle island are about the same thing as those.
The Sky doesn't need to have as much shit in it as the Great Sea because it's a smaller percentage of SS than the Sea is of WW.
>>332557908
>Mark my words, 5-10 years from now this game will still be just as ridiculed as it is today. It'll forever be remembered as the ugly duckling of the mainline console titles and no amount of bitching will ever change that.
Honestly that depends.
If we get a console Zelda that's even worse than Skward Sword, then you can expect it to be replaced as the black sheep of the franchise. And considering how bad Nintendo's track record is now, I would be surprised if Zelda U turns out to be another steaming pile of dog shit.
>>332558358
Nope. Only (paid or balless) reviewers. They probably didn't want the TP 8.0 scenario happening to them.
>>332558527
There is no cycle. There never was.
It's all just a combination of new fans with their babby's first Zelda game + the series getting consistently shittier over time.
>>332575759
>Faron Woods and Eldin Volcano had a terrible habit of repeating the same shit over and over again.
Yeah, when in a Zelda game have you ever needed to go to the same area again once it's changed somehow? Definitely never happened in ALttP, OoT, MM, or TP. And I love that you call it the "audacity" of revisiting a dungeon while you try to paint is as if you are literally playing the dungeon in the same way again. I thought it was actually cool to revisit a dungeon, that doesn't really happen in Zelda games. You know except for Phantom Hourglass and that was terrible.
>then had you trek through them four different times over the course of the game. By the time you were getting the song I was exhausted with them.
Don't tell me you actually moved through those areas the same way as you did the first time you visited them. The shortcuts you enable and having the clawshot changes that shit up. It's not like the flooded woods behaves anything like it did unflooded.
>How the fuck do you call Hyrule, Termina and the Great Sea empty and then praise the Sky?
Because the OoT field is empty, Termina is tiny, TP is big and somewhat empty (oh boy another 50 rupees that won't fit in my wallet). The Great Sea is slow, tedious, and not worth exploring because the last thing you need in WW is another heart piece. The Sky is fast to travel unless you're an idiot that doesn't use the multiple boost rocks that even make paths around the islands you'd want to visit like the Lumpy Pumpkin. It takes all of 10 seconds to reach the Eldin point from Skyloft unless you try to make it take longer. I think it's laughable you think the Great Sea "worked." At least Goddess chests have quivers and medals.
>It also controlled like complete ass.
If you're an invalid maybe. I bet you didn't use a sensor bar or know how to reset your sword with vertical slashes instead of the calibration screen in the menu.
>>332577283
>When I replayed WW(HD) for the first time in years I had stopped going to the extraneous islands and exploring because the rewards weren't worth it.
Because you already know what those rewards do and how to solve all the puzzles on the islands. I don't personally give a shit, I'm just grateful that there's something THERE (unlike Skyward Sword) and I just like fucking around and collecting everything.
>You're even making the mistake I already talked about, which is comparing only the Sky to the Sea when SS also has areas you can land in that are much better than any island in WW
The surface areas aren't better than anything in OoT, MM, WW or TP though. The layout of everything in Faron and Eldin is a chore to navigate through, not to mention that the activities you're forced to do in both of those provinces somehow manage to be even more mindless and tedious than TP's filler segments.
>It's still empty as fuck because the rewards for exploring are useless and therefore the islands containing them are useless
Again, you don't actually understand the definition of "empty". Whether an overworld has content has absolutely nothing to do with the utility (or lack thereof) of its collectibles; saying "I don't like these rewards, therefore it's empty waaaah" is not an argument, it's just you being overly petulant.
If anything, WW's Great Sea by definition has the most cluttered overworld of all the 3D Zeldas.
>It's not like the "use the hookshot" or "press the switch" puzzles are exactly worth mentioning in WW. Goddess Cubes and the occasional puzzle island are about the same thing as those.
Not when you oversimplify them like that. And no, they're not.
>The Sky doesn't need to have as much shit in it as the Great Sea because it's a smaller percentage of SS than the Sea is of WW.
Weak argument, because the amount of empty space in the sky in proportion to actual content is far, FAR wider of a gap in SS than it is in WW.
Don't be retarded.
>>332577283
>which is comparing only the Sky to the Sea when SS also has areas you can land in that are much better than any island in WW.
There's exactly two things in the sky ever worth visiting. Skyloft and the pumpkin farm.
There's no reason for the rest of it to even be there. The treasure chests might as well be on the surface itself since the Goddess Cubes act as keys for them and are all on the surface already. They're only there to hide how there's literally nothing to do in the sky.
Its a glorified level select.
>>332578682
You are an idiot. Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaa
>>332576618
>It actually takes quite a bit of time to move from one side of the sky to the other,
Not if you use the boost rocks anon.
>and unlike the games before it, it was actually LITERALLY empty.
So your big thing is that it was "sky" painted instead of green and brown? Just like the Great Sea you have random rupees appearing, some enemies like MM, WW, and TP had, and goddess chests.
>>332578874
No, I'm not talking about the fact that it was a sky. I mean it was literally empty in almost every conceivable way. Previous games had a variety of collectibles, SS just had goddess chests and there weren't many of them either.
Also, boost rocks don't shave that much time for the amount of boring bullshit you have to wade through up there.
>>332578682
>Because you already know what those rewards do and how to solve all the puzzles on the islands.
No, because I don't need heart pieces in one of the easiest Zelda games. There is no reward to WW's extra smaller islands, they're shit. I love how fags like you just keep insisting SS has nothing in the Sky at all when that's demonstrably wrong.
>The surface areas aren't better than anything in OoT, MM, WW or TP though.
But they are. Those games you mentioned are linear as fuck when it comes to a specific area, as is SS so that's a wash. SS however changes when you revisit areas, either by changing the landscape or by the items you have. Lanayru desert, where the tear segment is, is a very different path when you have the clawshot for example.
>Again, you don't actually understand the definition of "empty".
Oh you.
>saying "I don't like these rewards, therefore it's empty waaaah" is not an argument, it's just you being overly petulant.
Sorry I don't explore just for exploration's sake, I need a reason. WW's reason was mostly heart pieces which are completely unnecessary in that game.
>WW's Great Sea by definition has the most cluttered overworld of all the 3D Zeldas.
I don't know what you think you're saying by this, but it's becoming very clear you're a WWfag.
>Weak argument
Actually it's a pretty steadfast argument. The Sky doesn't have to have as much content as the Sea because it's less of the game. And again, you've managed to ignore the land sections in SS and are only taking the content in the Sky vs it's size as if that's all there is to SS. There is much more to SS than just the Sky.
Don't be so smug.
>>332579734
Nigga pls.
>>332578459
>Yeah, when in a Zelda game have you ever needed to go to the same area again once it's changed somehow? Definitely never happened in ALttP, OoT, MM, or TP.
In those games the regions aren't designed linearly into rooms broken up by small puzzles. That's the difference.
Skyward Swords design philosophy would have worked if it kept introducing new things throughout the whole game like Lanayru did. Instead it blows its load in the first third, realizes there's nothing left and keeps tacking on increasingly obnoxious filler missions like tears of light to stretch out the game.
>Don't tell me you actually moved through those areas the same way as you did the first time you visited them. The shortcuts you enable and having the clawshot changes that shit up.
These changes were even more minimal than the changes to the Ocean King Temple in Phantom Hourglass when you revisited them.
It's still the same area and play the same way.
>Because the OoT field is empty, Termina is tiny
Both of these are much faster to traverse all the way across than the sky and have far more shit to explore in them.
And in all four of those games you get warp systems to easily get to the major areas instantly when you want to, so even if you just care about faster travel Skyward Sword is worse. If you want to get from Eldin to Lanayru the only way to do it is to find a bird statue, warp back up to the sky hub, fly to the area manually and enter its light column.
Its easily the worst Zelda overworld to date regardless of whether you care about just getting to dungeons as quickly as possible or spending time exploring.
>At least Goddess chests have quivers and medals.
The only goddess cube medal that was worth using was the treasure one to speed up the upgrading process.
>>332578746
>Its a glorified level select.
Yeah, by design anon. You aren't saying anything that the devs haven't. The fact of the goddess cubes is that the chests are in the sky and therefore you have more than just Skyloft and the Lumpy Pumpkin to visit.
>Also, boost rocks don't shave that much time for the amount of boring bullshit you have to wade through up there.
Yes, yes they do. Especially when you find the paths that use multiple of them. Those boost rocks are why you can get to the Pumpkin or Eldin so fast.
All 3D Zelda is shit. ALTTP is the last good game in the series.
>>332580664
FUCK YOU
>>332580664
Links Awakening and the Oracles came out after LttP though
>>332580664
faggot
>>332580790
did she stutter?
>>332579734
>I love how fags like you just keep insisting SS has nothing in the Sky at all when that's demonstrably wrong.
Okay, it has next-to-nothing in the sky at all. Happy?
>SS however changes when you revisit areas, either by changing the landscape or by the items you have. Lanayru desert, where the tear segment is, is a very different path when you have the clawshot for example.
It doesn't change when you revisit areas just because there's a couple of new shortcuts introduced when you revisit, that's the most retarded logic I've ever heard. The vast majority of the time you're still trecking through the EXACT same paths you did when you first played through those areas.
And why are you even mentioning Lanayru? That was like the only surface area in SS that was actually pretty decent.
>Sorry I don't explore just for exploration's sake, I need a reason. WW's reason was mostly heart pieces which are completely unnecessary in that game.
That's fine, I'm not saying you have to like WW. My point was that you saying it's "empty" is objectively wrong by definition. There's no way around that.
>I don't know what you think you're saying by this, but it's becoming very clear you're a WWfag.
You realize that "cluttered" has a negative connotation, right?
But since you inquired, I'm actually an MMfag.
>And again, you've managed to ignore the land sections in SS and are only taking the content in the Sky vs it's size as if that's all there is to SS. There is much more to SS than just the Sky.
Except there isn't for reasons I and others have already explained. Nice try though.
>>332580620
>Liking fourth edition
>>332580664
>not Minish Cap
>>332557908
But it's fine. It's pretty, great soundtrack, interesting art style and unorthodox but surprisingly accurate motion controls that are actually fun to use.
Solid 8/10, great Zelda game. Fuck the cycle.
>>332557908
Like it or not, the cycle still applies. Shits are coming out of the woodwork and defending Skyward Sword and I HATE them.
Fi has the best theme music of all Links companions.
>>332582342
Fi was such a disappointment.
I loved her theme, design, concept and dances but holy shit she was insufferable.
>>332580227
>In those games the regions aren't designed linearly into rooms broken up by small puzzles.
You're right, they're linear sections without small puzzles. Name any area in OoT or TP that isn't linear. You seem to acknowledge Lanayru was pretty good so I'll drop that area, but even if you didn't like the flooded woods you can't deny how radically different that visit is. Nothing changes that much in 3D Zelda except probably Snowhead.
>filler missions like tears of light
See I enjoyed those four little diversions, because they changed the gameplay and didn't take up too much time. But this isn't really something to argue, if you didn't like them then that's that.
>It's still the same area and play the same way.
A flooded woods that means you literally don't set foot on the same ground you did the first time and an item-focused stealth area with no sword are just nothing to you? It blows my mind that you can honestly say those sections play the same as the first visits.
>Both of these are much faster to traverse all the way across than the sky
I said Termina is tiny and we all know OoT field is nothing when you have Epona. You can't tell me those first 2 or 3 trips as Child Link aren't annoying though. At least with the Sky you don't have to listen to the rolling noise over and over.
>And in all four of those games you get warp systems to easily get to the major areas instantly
And in SS you can pick where in an area you land instead of just one warp per area. I'm not saying SS is better here, but it's not like it has nothing in this category. And don't act like finding a bird statue is exactly hard because they're common as shit.
>Its easily the worst Zelda overworld to date
I think you're losing sight of what it's compared to. SS has a better overworld than OoT by virtue of it changing along. I mean OoT has non-linear dungeon order, but those areas themselves are extremely linear so at least SS's gives you new linear paths to take when you revisit.
>>332581459
>SS is empty because I don't care about the shit in it!
>WW isn't empty, even if you don't care about the shit in it!
You know, whatever man.
>>332584179
You should just admit you're illiterate at this point.
The sky having a teensy little bit of content in the sky doesn't change the fact that it still pales in number compared to its predecessors.
>>332557908
But people love Skyward Sword
http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword
The Zelda cycle is real, and it's not gonna stop for Skyward Sword. Anyone who disagrees only disagrees because they are guilty of the Zelda cycle themselves. If you weren't, you'd notice that other people do this.
>>332557908
People said the same exact thing about The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, by the way. Even fewer people remember that Majora's Mask was absolutely hated by a large base of people who hated the timed system and were put off by the dark atmosphere.
>>332584550
>The sky having a teensy little bit of content in the sky doesn't change the fact that it still pales in number compared to its predecessors.
>its predecessors
Yeah there's just so much to do in OoT's Hyrule Field man. Termina manages to have more enemies and a spot to play songs for rupees. TP's fields are empty as fuck unless more money is your thing, or stamps in HD.
You can not like SS's Sky, but don't pretend like it's the worst Hyrule Field we've had.
>>332584835
I only played SS 3 months ago and I'll forever be branded as part of the cycle.
>games keep getting worse
>people blame zelda cycle
Even Aonuma invoked it, he's a fucking hack.
I've liked pretty much every Zelda ever released, barring the CDI games since I never played em.
I don't think any of them are inherently bad.
>>332585271
Yeah, worst empty overworlds in worst to best is probably TP field, SS sky, OoT field, WW ocean, and I even hate the WW's ocean.
I at least like that all of the important shit in OoT's field was smartly placed to avoid mindless endless travel. Sure there was nothing to do in it, but at least kakariko, zora river, hyrule castle, and the lost woods are all kind of on one side of the map in their own corner, so the beginning of the game you're just kind of swapping from kakariko to hyrule castle a few times which are right next to each other. The entrance of Lon Lon ranch faces hyrule castle/kakariko so it's not too bad of a walk, and gerudo desert requires a horse anyway as it's the only out of the way place.
>>332585428
But SS>TP>WW.I like dungeons though.
>>332585271
>Termina
Stopped reading there. It's obvious you've never played MM.
>>332564854
Of the 3D Zeldas? Sure. If you're counting the actual overworld as in the outside-of-the-dungeons surface world, that's fantastic. If you're counting the Sky, it's pointless but entirely painless and fast.
Beats big and empty time wasters (like TP/WW) and is a bit more pretty and interesting conceptually than the Hyrule Field/Termina Field of OoT/MM while being something you spend no time in whatsoever just like those.
Zelda cycle doesn't exist, it's just some peoples' opinions become louder and more visible than others'
That and simplistic rating of a game on a scale from "it's a piece of shit" to "it's GOAT". Instead of admitting they liked some part of the game and hated others.
The one thing I'll never get about Skyward Sword praise is how some people praise it for superior combat.
Like, even disregarding the control scheme its slow and almost feels turn based. Your range of abilities is limited compared to the previous 3D Zelda's with less sword techniques to play with and cumbersome items that aren't very useful in regular combat and nearly every enemy in the game uses the same directional shield blocking technique.
It felt so repetitive and mindless.
>>332563874
>TP
>on the wii
Found the problem
>>332585271
None of the other fields forced you to use motion controls to get around, though, and they typically, at the very least, served the purpose of making the world feel big and interconnected. The sky just hammered home the fact that the areas are disjointed as fuck.
I mean, I won't be defending the overworlds of previous Zeldas, they all had problems too. SS just happens to continue the proud tradition of 3D Zeldas having shitty empty fields that serve little purpose, in addition to all of its other flaws.
>>332586790
But the Wii version was the best. Widescreen support alone makes it better.
I didn't really get into MM, how was its hyrule field?
Even if it was empty, at least they kind of smartly put the four main locations across the 4 exits of clock town.
Anyways, if zelda u doesn't have as easy and convenient fast travel as xenoblade x, I already won't enjoy it. I've been so spoiled by xenoblade x, where all you do is touch the screen a few times and you instantly fast travel. If I have to make sure I'm outside, and then equip a certain item, and then memorize a specific song, and then it goes "do you want to fast travel?" and then there's 3 minutes of loading, and then I have to recall my horse with another song because it didn't travel with me, and there's only like 6 fast travel points designated on the map, it's shit
>>332557908
But Wind Waker has and always will be the ugly duckling
>>332586932
Its just a small ring around Clock Town.
There's some hidden items, npcs and songs in it but its mostly just a way to transition from the town to the cardinal direction regions.
>>332568069
But that's pretty fun, though. You could tell the same guy who made the Oracle games was behind it, because SS and the Oracle games both had the kind of progression where you had actual obstacles outside of dungeons in very distinct zones that you had to go through to reach those dungeons.
>>332558358
No, but I do remember dumbasses buying the game only to emulate it using dolphin WITH the disc.
I still don't fucking understand why ANYONE would do that.
>>332587049
Wind Waker is one of the most praised and popular games in the series these days.
The Zelda cycle term was coined after its popularity spiked post-TP.
>>332587049
WW may be the ugly duckling, but SS will be the ugly unwanted Cuckoo we were tricked into, and it becomes more and more of a disgusting burden.
>>332586912
Here's a (you)
>>332586221
WW is a bit hard to compare because the Sea is the focus of the game much more than Hyrule Field is in OoT for example. Content that'd normally be in other areas is instead in the Sea, that's why I get so hung up on people calling the Sky empty in comparison to the Sea when SS has the land to put content in too. It's not that the comparison is wrong, it just ignores the different natures of the Sky and Sea. I still want to say the Sky is better than OoT's Hyrule Field.
And then you go on that OoT's field is empty, but at least all the good stuff is centralized. You know what other Zelda game has a fairly sparse area with all the important shit centrally located?Skyward Sword.
>The entrance of Lon Lon ranch faces hyrule castle/kakariko so it's not too bad of a walk
From the forest it is.
In Skyward Sword, I feel like traveling the sky is a bit tedious when you keep returning to the song island in the thunderhead. I can admit that. However, most of the time I think those boost rocks and the paths you can create out of them are pretty fast, especially if you're just going from a province to Skyloft or vice versa. I think its travel lengths have been embellished by time's passing.
>>332587049
Low quality b8.
>>332587731
>muh left hand
>muh waggle
>>332586637
It's like a bad, less thought out version of punch out.
>>332586637
See, that complaint confuses me even more. Zelda's combat has never been particularly great, and it's always been a lock-on, button-mashing affair with an overly safe shield on top of that.
Skyward Sword let you attack from range with Skyward Strikes, you could fake out enemies to change where they blocked and then hit in a different direction, and in general it turned even smaller encounters into a game of Punch-Out. The fact you could react to everything strictly with the control you had with your sword and at no point had to rely on your shield (even if it was an option) was fantastic. Just everything about it was more satisfying and offered more control.
>>332587773
>From the forest it is.
It's been a while, but are you supposed to go there from the forest? I mean, I guess you can make it your first destination as soon as you enter hyrule field, but even then it's on the way to the castle. Once you visit hyrule castle, all you're doing for a while is visiting hyrule castle to kakariko a few times, which the ranch is staring you in the face to visit it any time, and then you can go to zora river eventually.
>>332557908
It has good dungeons, so that automatically makes it better than Wind Waker.
>>332586637
Ehh, I can't agree with that.
I mean I dislike SS too, mainly because I'm not crazy about the overworld, but the combat is fucking stellar and was the main reason I decided to stick around until the very end.
I have a Wii-U code to give out for the Hyrule Legends characters but there's no active thread to be found on /vg/ or /v/. Should i wait till tomorrow or make a new thread? I wanted to play a little game to make it fun but I don't think the mods would appreciate me making a whole new thread just to give a code away.
SS had fun combat. Everything else in the game was shit. It's just a bad game.
>>332588721
You should just give it to me to be honest
>>332586452
But I have. N64 cart is around here somewhere too.
>>332586883
>None of the other fields forced you to use motion controls to get around
What are you gonna argue that SS has shit dungeons regardless of their design because they make you use motion controls to play them too? It's not worth going into it with you if you're just gonna cry motion controls.SS controls fine, stop fucking up.
>>332589264
SS's controls are garbage, even if they "work"
>>332586637
>almost feels turn based
>items that aren't very useful in regular combat
Sounds like OoT's sequelitis all over again.
>>332586912
Aiming wasn't worth the waggle sword.Mirrored world triggered my tisms too.
>>332589264
There's a difference between "use motion controls to interact with things" and "you HAVE to use motion controls the entire time simply to move"
Same reason everyone hated all the underwater segments.
>>332576964
Who the fuck thinks SS dungeons were good? They're average at best. They rely heavily on mechanical elements like swimming, running and combat, and have absolute garbage puzzles and boring, linear layouts.
I think the only one that made me rub two brain cells together was the pirate ship for some of the parts where you had to use the time switch.
>>332588305
Forest to Hyrule Castle is what I'm saying is a long walk, I wasn't that clear though.
>>332590561
Ancient Cistern and Sandship were some of the best 3D Zelda dungeons.
>>332590561
some had some good ideas, but yeah they were completely ruined by being too easy, or having the game constantly hold your hand, and most of the new items were pretty shit which made some of the dungeon obstacles seem stupid and arbitrary like "blow on a pinwheel to open the door!" or "use a whip to activate this switch that's just randomly on the wall"
>>332583670
>I mean OoT has non-linear dungeon order, but those areas themselves are extremely linear
No. There's generally a specific entrance that you need to get to in order to progress to the next area of a given part, but the game allows and encourages you to freely explore the areas you do have access to in ways that SS does not. SS's world is much more segmented in every meaningful way.
>>332588790
>SS had fun combat. Everything else in the game was shit. It's just a bad game.
Dungeons too anon.
>>332589886
>Same reason everyone hated all the underwater segments.
You mean because they're too stupid to work motion controls?
>>332589623
Top lel.
>>332590561
Time switch puzzles were the best, but SS dungeons were weak overall. I think people confuse neat aesthetics with good design. Ancient Cistern has a really cool theme but if you strip away the graphics it's nothing special. Then you've got a boring generic forest temple and TWO boring generic lava temples. The ship is really the only one that manages to be interesting to play and have an interesting theme, and it also happens to have the worst boss.
>>332580664
ALTTP is the first mediocre game in the series. I'm glad things picked back up after it.
>>332591071
>but the game allows and encourages you to freely explore the areas you do have access to
Yeah, remember all that exploration in Death Mountain, Zora's River/Domain, Lake Hylia, Gerudo's Canyon/Desert, and getting into the Shadow Temple? Me neither.
>>332591169
top lel isn't a counterargument. Mass Effect 3 is a working game, doesn't stop it from being garbage. Amiibo festival is a perfectly functional party game, it's garbage though.
I don't have that many complaints about the motion controls being broken, but they're such a tiresome burden.Even the few times I do think the controls are legit broken, I won't mention it, because the game has much greater flaws, but Stupid SS babbies will ignore all of my other criticisms and immediately start attacking me with "HURRR ITS UR FAULT THE CONTROLS DON'T WORK, YOU RETARDED APE, THEY WORK PERFECTLY FINE!"
>>332591619
>top lel isn't a counterargument.
No shit, I never said it was. You didn't make an argument to counter. The entire rest of your post is useless because you're having a conversation about something I'm not saying. And that spoiler that goes straight to labeling your opposition, 'I could bring up this thing that proves my point but I won't,' playing the victim, AND strawmanning my position. Fuck off. If you have an argument, make it instead of hiding behind all this shit.
>>332591169
>If you don't like it, it's because you're too stupid
>There is literally no other reason to dislike this thing
SSfags are so obnoxious.
>>332592193
>The entire rest of your post is useless because you're having a conversation about something I'm not saying
>it's okay for my posts to be useless though TOP LEL
>>332591619
You don't have an argument in the first place. The controls work, and it seems stupid to be complaining about them given you can perfectly control it with just wrist movements, and you don't even have to point it at the TV or anything because of the motion plus and instant resetting with down on the dpad.
>>332557908
It feels like this is copypastad from one of all these threads shitting on Twilight Princess, but with Skyward Sword slapped as the image instead.That being said, the copypasta is way more true for SS than TP.
>>332586912
You do realize that the Wii can't do true widescreen, right? The resolution is still 640x480 in 16x9, so you'll have lower clarity from stretched pixels.
4:3 480p GCN TP on GameCube or 16:9 1080p TPHD on Wii U.
>>332592349
You didn't say you didn't like it, you said "...everyone hated all the underwater segments." And you weren't even talking about quality of the controls, just that having to use them to move is inherently bad and ruins those sections. How the fuck to you want me to respond to that? You're just like the other anon, you get what you give.
>>332592383
>doesn't make an argument
>expects others to make a counter argumenttop lel
You see the Zycle has gotten redefined so many times that it's honestly fucking stupid to cling to any version of it as fact
>ALBW broke the cycle because people liked it
>nope, Zycle only matters with console zeldas
>People liked Zelda 1, Alttp, and OoT on release
>nope, Zycle only applies to 3D games after OoT
>plenty of people still hated TP up until it got a re-release, and some still hate it
So really, it's pointless. What are you even trying to prove by saying the Zycle is in effect? Wanna prove the Zelda fanbase is shit? Well no shit! Everyone knows this already, so there's no point to acknowledging this dumb theory about the reception of future games.
That said Zelda U is gonna be a disappointment, some retards will defend SS, other retards will shout Zelda Cycle, and the remainder of the fandom will actually try to see it for what it is and keep thinking poorly of SS
>>332592735
>guys look it worked for 30 seconds these controls are perfect
webm is old, nobody falls for it anymore
>>332592735
>You don't have an argument in the first place
The person I replied to implied that another anon hated the controls because they were broken. My post stated that even if something works doesn't automatically make it good. Your post also missed this point. That was my argument.
Also
>bit block nintendo defense force with his own isolated context example means the controls are perfect.
I'm sure you could also record thousands of examples of fucked up controls. But like I said, I don't want to go too deep into calling the controls broken, because annoying SS faggots like you get tunnel vision and immediately start defending the controls and implying that broken controls are the only reason that game anyone could possibly think this game is shit
>>332588305
>and then you can go to zora river eventually
I do regret that they added the rocks to block you. It's something that ideally could have changed in the remake. Otherwise, I'd agree that the intelligent placement of things around the field is yet another aspect of OoT which deserve praise.
>>332592735
>perfectly control it with wrist movements
>post an example where he waves his entire arm/arms/torso to get working controls
Fuck off Skyward Shill
Honestly, I love every Zelda game. And I think Skyward Sword is the weakest 3D Zelda.
http://strawpoll.me/7234235
>>332593272
here's my argument here though, anon>>332593530
Not even with me, that post made had zero quality substance even to other posters. "You mean because they're too stupid to work motion controls?" is a useless statement as well
>>332593792
You don't have to move your entire arm to get "working controls". A simple wrist if just as effective, if not more effective.
>>332557908
SO YOU HATU SKYWARD SWORDU BUT YOU RIKU TWIRIGHT PRINCESS NOW!?
>>332557908
The Zelda Cycle is just an observation of changing age demographics on /v/
The younger you were when you first played a game, the less critical you were and the more likely you'll hold fond memories. Every year we get new posters on /v/ while the older ones fall off. It wouldn't surprise me if there are people on here right now who first played TP when they were 8 or 9.
By 2018-2020 we'll see an influx of people who really enjoyed SS. Its just common sense.
I fucking hate this game.
Did you know that?
>>332592735
>even under zero stress in ideal conditions one of his horizontal slashes registers as an over-head swing.
how did nintendo release this turd?
>>332593873
Where's the option for none you shit lord.
>>332594121
Then post an example where someone gets consistent perfect controls without rotating their entire torso. Maybe also post one where you're actually in combat. Or maybe post one of the thousands of examples on youtube of the harp fucking up.
>>332557908
It was good when it came out.
It's still good now.
Sorry bout your troll thread
>>332594330
I played TP when I was 15 and I think its the best 3D Zelda aside from OoT and maybe MM.
>>332594371
I do too, anon. It's literally my most hated game. I know it's irrational, but just thinking about SS makes me so fucking mad, my blood pressure is raising just being in this thread, but I can't help but take advantage of an opportunity to shit on this pile of shit
>>332594567
Not answering the poll because the poll exists to gauge the reception of each console 3D Zelda in the eyes of Zelda fans
If you wouldn't rate any of them highly you are not in the statistic I'm looking for.
>>332593530
Because that argument is just kinda shitty. There's no reason to it, just being upset about motion controls existing or being used in a system where the controller you're using has built-in motion controls. It's no more arbitrary than pushing a button.
>>332594623
I played it when I was 16 and I thought it was trash
Nobody is trying to tell you that your individual opinion is wrong. It just explains the broad, shifting trends that we see on the internet.
It makes a hell of a lot more sense than "everybody keeps magically changing their opinion"
With the exception of Zelda II and the CD-i games, I strongly believe that there is no bad Zelda game.
Some Zelda games may not perform as well as others, but even then they're still better than a lot of shit on the market these days.
Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword not good enough for you? Okay, that's cool, but they're fucking gold compared to the shit you see on other systems.
>>332594567
Good thing its not there since that isn't the case
>>332594742
It's altogether the worst Zelda experience I can think of. I don't care if it's ridiculed now or later, it's just plain bad.
>>332594989
>I strongly believe that there is no bad Zelda game.
Spirit Tracks.
>>332594921
Yeah, true. The Zelda cycle refers to the changing age demographic of players, not the change of individual opinions.
Well, I'm almost 25 and still like it just as much as I did when I was 15 in 2006. I first played Wind Waker when I was 12 and don't think its better than TP at anything.
I loved Skyward Sword when it came out, but now I'm starting to like it less and less.
>>332594989
>but they're fucking gold compared to the shit you see on other systems.
are you for real
TP was pretty mediocre compared to similar games releasing at the same time. Look at Okami or Shadow of the Colossus.
>>332594895
>It's no more arbitrary than pushing a button.
Yes it fucking is. Pushing a button is simpler, faster, and more accurate than flicking your wrist. There were so many times where they forced you to use motion controls to balance/swim/fly when the control stick was literally unused, and would have also been objectively more accurate. They could have even used the control stick to move, and the motion controls to control the camera, but they fucked up.
There is NO REASON they couldn't have made the motion controls optional (except for maybe the swordplay). But they didn't. That's the definition of arbitrary.
>>332595253
Is this a meme? ST was 10 times better than Phantom Hourglass
Honestly, I had more fun with it than TP. Probably the best 2D dungeon design since Link's Awakening.
>>332595253
Spirit Tracks and Phantom Hourglass aren't bad Zelda games. They just deviate in overworld mechanics.
>>332595415
>TP was pretty mediocre compared to similar games releasing at the same time
Not really
>>332595647
ST was great, PH was garbage
>shit music
>shit dungeons
>shit final boss
And at least with the Train there was some shit to do. Like play Where's Waldo with the rabbits.
>>332593272
Maybe you could have responded with something that wouldn't make you look like an enormous chode, like "I didn't mind them"
Instead you went straight to "NOPE EVERYONE BUT ME IS STUPID, MOTION CONTROLS ARE GREAT"
The only bad Zelda games:
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
Wand of Gamelon
Faces of Evil
Zelda's Adventure
Four Swords [Adventures] / Anniversary Edition
>>332595850
TP had a couple great dungeons, but there were some elements that were just shockingly bad
Compare the wolf controls and the "living world" to Okami
Compare the overworld and the bossfights to SotC
Compare the music in TP to either of those games
TP really wasn't a very good game.
>>332596291
Sorry, I forgot Skyward Sword.
>>332592735
Is your argument seriously just that it works so you aren't allowed to hate it?
Aside from the fact that many people did encounter very real issues with the system, even if it worked flawlessly, that doesn't make it good, that just makes it functional. Functional isn't good, it's the bare minimum of what a game should be.
>>332595871
>PH was garbage
No it wasn't.
>shit final boss
This is the only remotely valid complaint you have, and that's being generous.
>>332596291
You don't know shit about NES games if you think Zelda II is bad.
>>332596291
>Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
Oh, so you're one of THOSE people.
>>332596681
LOP LEL :3
>>332596681
>Is your argument seriously just that it works so you aren't allowed to hate it?
Nah
Is you argument seriously just that you don't like it so nobody is allowed to like it?
>>332596775
oh by all means, post those classic PH trackshard mode: anything that isn't Lineback's theme
>>332596791
>>332596780
>le Zelda 2 isn't a clunky, grindy piece of shit meme
classic
>>332596392
TP blows Okami and SotC out the water. Sorry to shatter your delusions.
The wolf controls are tight and responsive, and the twilight segments as a wolf are very fleshed out and add variety
>>332593460
>for 30 seconds
I don't recall the performance of the motion controls varying with time when I played.
>>332596865
>Nah
Then what is your argument?
>Is you argument seriously just that you don't like it so nobody is allowed to like it?
Of course not, you can like it if you want. Seems the majority of people here don't, though.
>>332596865
Not him, but this whole little mini debate started because someone said they didn't like the controls, then someone replied with "the controls are good, stop fucking up" then I said, just because they might be functional doesn't mean they are good, then the world's biggest faggot came in and started shitposting with top lels and bit block webms.
Just saying.
>>332597147
Gotta disagree with you, but I'm glad you enjoyed it so much
>>332597227
>Then what is your argument?
I don't have an argument
I'm just here to shout my opinions at other people, because I feel validated when people agree with me.
>>332594495
When? I mean, there's a swing 7 or 8 seconds in that looks like he meant it to be horizontal, but the initial movement is clearly more vertical, and then he sort of curves horizontally.
>>332594495
>even under zero stress
at what point do you ever feel stressed in a Zelda game?
>>332592735
If the controls didn't work for you, it's because you didn't have it set up well or your remote/bar is faulty. I literally had ZERO problems playing the game. It has plenty of glaring faults, but the controls aren't among them.
>>332597147
>and the twilight segments as a wolf are very fleshed out and add variety
It's been a while, but really? All I remember was "we threw some bugs in this giant open area to pad out the game length" or "he use your smellovision so we can make the wolf seem useful"
>>332597878
You know, having to have a correctly set up gyroscope/bar before the controls work ARE AN INHERENT PROBLEM WITH THE CONTROLS.
If this shit was mapped to buttons there would be no issue, they would be objectively more accurate. This is what I wish Skyward Shills would get through their heads. Having to recalibrate, even if you don't mind it, makes the controls objectively less accurate. Saying it was a faulty motion plus excuses the motion plus itself, and while I know you could also have a faulty button, that's less likely and more easily diagnosed.
ALL THEY FUCKING HAD TO DO WAS MAKE THE MOTION CONTROLS OPTIONAL, THAT'S ALL THEY HAD TO FUCKING SHITTING DO. I'M LEGITIMATELY MAD, THERE IS NOOOOOOOO DEFENDING THIS. YOU DON'T MIND THEM? THAT'S FINE, BUT YOU HAVE ZERO GROUND TO STAND ON WHEN SAYING THAT THEY COULDN'T HAVE JUST MADE EVERYONE HAPPY WITH A TRADITIONAL CONTROL SCHEME
>>332598769
>having to have a correctly set up gyroscope/bar before the controls work ARE AN INHERENT PROBLEM WITH THE CONTROLS
What?
>>332592735
Every fucking time.
Of those 30 or so attacks, about three of them are clearly misread. You see a few lunges that are late and several slashes that are at the wrong angle.
>>332597878
It worked most of the time for me but for some reason stabbing was always tricky and had a higher tendency of fucking up than anything else. Other than that, they were okay. Not as effective as buttons but they worked about as well as anticipated.
It really is the rest of the design that fucks the game over. The motion controls just happen to be the first and most readily noticeable thing about the game so it's the part that always gets brought up the most.
>>332599030
>about three
Specify which ones.
>>332599318
I can't waste my time on that. I'm right.
>>332599456
Okay :^)
>>332557908
I loved it day 1. Actually,like day -11 since it was leaked online about a week early and I pirated it
>>332598918
yes. Buttons aren't subject to faulty sensor bars, or inaccurate gyroscopes, or misinterpretations by the player. That means buttons are objectively more accurate than motion controls.
Or when the game simply says "swing the wii remote from side to side" there are so many ways to interpret that. You can hold the wii remote vertically as you do it, or you can swing the remote quickly or slowly, or only for one foot, or for 3 feet, etc. Buttons aren't subject to those kinds of interpretations, all you do is press and release.
This is why it pisses me off when people say "THEY WORKED FOR ME, SO THEY MUST BE PERFECT, ITS YOUR FAULT!" because maybe one person had a faulty sensor bar, or one person swung it too far of a distance. they are problems inherent to motion controls, that could have all been avoided with buttons
>>332558021
Bullshit
>>332599624
They could also be avoided by you setting it up properly though.
>>332592735
Now use a shield bash. Make sure it's perfectly timed, or else that beemos is going to stun you long enough for that electric bokoblin to stun you again while that second electric bokoblin shoves his fist up your ass.
Shit on TP all you want, but it was better than Wind Waker.
>>332599786
but setting shit up properly is an inherent problem that buttons aren't face with. Read please.
>>332600261
Do you complain about delicious dishes because you can't just shove them in the microwave? Setting up shit so that the controls is a one-time thing that takes like a minute. I wasn't having to constantly recalibrate shit when I played through he game, it just fucking worked. You're making up shit to compensate for the fact that you were too goddamn stupid to put the bar in the right place and close the fucking curtains. Set up is not a "problem", this applies to most things.
>>332600682
*so that the controls work
>>332600682
Buttons work with the curtains open. You are not addressing this. Buttons are objectively more accurate. Sorry.
>>332601232
But the motion controls are sufficiently accurate to read your movements correctly. You're not addressing his, your complaining about having to do something once. Sorry.
Since every 3D Zelda besides SS has gotten a remake, it stands to reason that they'll probably remake this, will they essentially remake it like WW/OoT/MM and introduce a normal control scheme, or will it be low effort and just a HD facelift like TP was?
>>332557908
In 5-10 years I won't be able to play it without digging out my Wii, a CRT and getting a shitload of batteries. What the fuck where they thinking by defining a Zelda game of all things by a controller?
>>332601492
*addressing this
*you're
Goddamn I'm dropping the ball today.
>>332595557
not that anon but
>doesn't see the reason behind it
>therefore there is no reason
or
>using dictionary definitions
>in non-literal, hyperbolic usage
I don't know which more accurately describes you, did motion controls touch you as a child?
>>332599318
Attack 4: Link attacks well after the player has slashed down.
Attack 8: The player swings the wiimote and nunchuck down, Link spin attacks upwards.
Attack 10: Player slashes near horizontally, Link attacks at a steep angle.
Attack 11/12/13: Link stabs slightly late (Link only starts stabbing when the players arm is already at full extension)
Attack 14: Link stabs extremely late (The player has already retracted his arm before Link even starts moving).
Attack 15/16/19/20/21/22/23: Same as 11/12/13. Link stabs late. 17 and 18 seem a bit better.
Most of these are just serious input lag on the thrust attack, but attack 8 is a total misread. Link literally attacks in the opposite direction from the direction the player moved the remote.
You'll be proven wrong when the next Zelda game gets released and it turns out to be so bad it makes SS look good in comparison.
>>332601668
I should note, the real problem with the SS motion controls is that they operate on an acceleration threshold approach. Most of his motions are entirely meaningless, and in particular the reason his thrusts are so slow is that he only actually reaches the required acceleration for a thrust to be registers when he jerks at the end of pushing out his arm. Some of the attacks seem to move at the wrong angle because his arm is moving in one direction when the wiimote reaches critical accel but then changes direction as the attack animation is playing.
>>332601668
>Attack 4
There is no additional delay, he winds up rather than doing a solid swift movement like the previous ones so it doesn't register until he's moving it fast.
>Attack 8
I guess I'll give you that, I seem to remember there being two variations on the spin but it's been a while.
>Attack 10
See >>332597598
>Attacks 11/12/13
Literally the same as the delays before. Again, consider when his arm has reached a good speed. Also consider the different nature altogether of the movement in the first place.
>Attack 14
I'll give you that one too.
>Attack 15/16/19/20/21/22/23
Same as two points ago.
Within actual gameplay, the delays are largely negligible since it's not fast-paced combat and you get punished for the wrong move rather than not being reaction-speed, so misreads are the bigger menace and they are few and far between, and when it's like attack 8 and it's just along the same axis but oppositely, it's USUALLY benign anyway. The game was perfectly playable.
>>332603025
I think one of the reasons so many people have issues, aside from not knowing the recalibration tips or using sensor bars, is that they assume whatever motion they think should trigger the attack actually does. SS's controls are a lot more responsive when you know exactly what triggers them, and it isn't always the exact same way you think to move like you just pointed out. The game in this way is less or even almost completely non-intuitive like they wanted. Once you start thinking of it as specific inputs like a jerk or a twist instead of "oh I'll just do what I want with my arm" I think most of the control issues really disappear.
>>332594582
>Then post an example where someone gets consistent perfect controls without rotating their entire torso.
>>332598769
they weren't replacing button presses, this isn't an issue like waggle to run in DKCR or the sword combat in TP
The SS combat was built from the start around motion controls, it would have been a completely different experience with traditional controls. The sword controls aren't perfect, but that's part of the immersion and the fun. Ninty went out of their way to do something that you could only do with the Wiimote, and in this case I appreciated it.
Its too bad that the game makes you this angry, but you're not really looking at the whole picture if you think the game needed traditional controls. Its the same for a game like DDR or Donkey Kong Jungle Beat.
>>332599456
>I can't waste my time on that
said anon as he argued about 5 year old video game on 4chan
>>332565524
It's pretty and all but it's a fucking chore to play.
>>332565816
It's not that they don't work, it's that spinning your arm around to hit a switch is not a fun thing to do. Maybe if SS had come out when motion controls were new it would have been acceptable but everyone stopped caring about "1:1" movement well before SS came out.
Every aspect the motion controls touched were weakened because of it. It's not that the controls were shit, it's that they were the focus of nearly every moment of gameplay. It felt like Link's Crossbow Training 2.
>>332603689
>>332603025
As far as I'm concerned, this is the most damning thing about SS controls. The game actually lies to you. The way it shows your sword being held like you hold your remote makes you think that you should use the wiimote like a sword, but that's the single worst think you can do.
The SS controls are based on small, directional flicks. You don't need to care about positioning, or power or reach, all that matters is that you make a short flick in the right direction. The animations hide this. The tutorials and the manual hide this. The marketing materials more than hide this, they keep pushing that you use the wiimote like a sword.
>>332569806
ALBW is the worst zelda game made by nintendo.
>>332605358
You don't use "flicks", that's what you did in Wii Sports and it's ilk. SS controls are more akin to using a wand or something.
>>332605345
>everyone stopped caring
Stop trying to fluff up your opinion like this
If you stopped caring, then say "I stopped caring"
>>332605583
I'm not fluffling shit bitch, motion controls were already old news by the time motion plus came out. It was at ABSOLUTE BEST mildly impressive when it worked perfectly.
Otherwise you were twirling your arm for one reason or another all game.
>>332565476
What the literal fuck? Skyward Sword had tear hunts too and somehow managed to make them MORE annoying and time consuming.
And the Lanayru Desert tear hunt was arguably the worst and most fucking annoying one.
>>332606237
Nah mang, SS tear hunts were a lot more fun than the TP tear hunts
probably because the level design was actually designed like a game
>>332603529
The fact that the motion controls require such focus to use defeats the entire point of motion controls in the first place. They're (mostly) OK once you realise that the game doesn't actually treat the wiimote like a sword and instead considered only acceleration, but that still means you're always thinking about the controls rather than the game. It's not intuitive and it's very easy to slip into bad habits.
The controls might 95% accurate when you know about to use them, but you need to consider the probabilities of players not fully understanding the controls.
>Within actual gameplay, the delays are largely negligible since it's not fast-paced combat
It's all connected. The controls are hard to use and have large input lag, so the game can't be fast paced. Previous games can things like the jumping lizardfos that you have to slash at the right time, but SS turns them into guarding lizardfos that sit and wait for you to strike.
>The game was perfectly playable.
Most of it was. 99% of the game was fine, but those moments when you do lose lots of health due to a misread are absolutely infuriating.
>>332606017
>have an opinion
>how do I make it seem more important?
>I know, I'll say that everybody agrees with me!
are you 5
>>332557908
I liked it.
My only real problem is that it's linear. It felt like every section is a "level" instead of an open world. Oh, and Fi.
The dungeons were pretty cool and I'm glad they did try fluid motion controls in a Zelda game. Just, don't do it again.
This game wasn't good nor was it a bad game. It is probably one of the most "meh" Zelda games of the 3D series.
>>332606582
>probably because the level design was actually designed like a game
You mean linear shit with 99% of the puzzles being "slice your sword THIS direction now!"
Fantastic game design mate! And just in case you're too retarded to know what to do, Fi will just tell you exactly what to do EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
>>332607181
what does any of that have to do with the tears of light courses?
>>332557908
mfw I liked it back in 2011 and i like it today
>>332607323
>what does level design have to do with gameplay
>level design that forces the tear hunts to just be backtracking the linear maps
>tear hunts made even more obnoxious than Twilight Princess because arbitrary stealth to make the third or fourth time trekking the same map slightly different
whatever mate, shill your shit game, then hop on the next bandwagon when the next Zelda comes out and forget you ever cared about SS
>>332557908
test test
>>332607323
Yeah, the SS ToL were way better than the pointless TP bug hunts that just make exploration more boring.
>>332608061
They're almost exactly the same though.
>>332607520
same
>>332604509
It actually made me feel like I was swordfighting, having to perfectly time blocks and change up my slashes on the fly was a hundred times more satisfying than the flailing most combat in this series involves
>>332608834
not really. The end goals are the same, to collect a certain number of tear items. But the way you go about them are completely different. In TP you slowly wander around while digging and using the sense thing to just attack bugs whenever. There's no danger or time limit.
In SS there is a time limit and you have to quickly go through obstacles and run from fast enemies that can start pursuing you. the last one in skyloft was really tense. As a whole that just made the SS tearhunting more fun and memorable. Whenever I get there in TP i almost stop playing because it's so boring and I don't want to do it
>>332608834
they were completely different
TP was about exploration with the shitty, limiting wolf controls
SS was about getting through the stage within a time limit, with a bunch of enemies pursuing you
Have you played either game recently?
>>332564854
That poster is 100% correct
>>332570389
>Muh accessibility
Fuck off to tumblr
>>332610192
>controls don't have to be good!!
This is the state of neo-/v/. Jesus christ, Metal Gear Rising didn't have motion controls and did "1:1" motion better than Skyward Sword's fake 1:1 BS which was really just 8 preset animations depending on how you angled your swing.
>>332580664
>ALTTP
>not ALBW
Egoraptor posted go
>>332569806
ALBW is overrated as fuck.
Borrows too much from ALtTP, bad graphics and art style, horrible story, forgettable characters, too short and the renting system straight up ruined the nonlinearity of the game.
>>332580790
>Link's Awakening
my nigga
>>332610861
>the renting system straight up ruined the nonlinearity of the game.
>the system that made the game nonlinear ruined the nonlinearity
lol que?
>>332591182
You clearly haven't played a link between worlds if you think ss dungeons are the easiest
>hey guys you remember that tear drop collecting in twilight princess that people were annoyed about?
>well lets do it again! And put a time limit
>remember how awesome midna was?
>I don't!
>hey did you like the motion controls in Twilight Princess Wii?
>You didn't? Nonsense! Lets put more of it
>Hey did you like simon says when you were a kid anon?
>say no more
>hey dude...dude...hey...did you ever watch pirates of the Caribbean?
>well you'll NEVER guess what we did!
>>332557908
But I like it a lot, fuck you.
>>332596457
Is the best zelda game
>>332611547
hang on dude, midna was pretty alright
>>332557908
and thank god for that, it doesn't deserve redemption. This game is literally made to force and demo wiimotion+.
>>332610530
Whatever you say, tumblrtard
>>332611698
That was his point. Fi was shit, they forgot what made Midna great.
>>332612027
>I don't have a counter to factual statements so I resort to yelling tumblr at everything I disagree with!
Sure proved me wrong about you being an underage neo-/v/ faggot!
>>332557908
I think you're right. But ONLY because of the motion controls. Many people just can't deal with the controls. They're fanatical in their hatred of motion controls.
If it wasn't for that one thing, then SS would be beloved in just a few years from today.
>>332557908
I recently finished it, and I can say that it was not as bad (to me at least) as people had made it out to be. Yes it has some glaring issues but I wouldn't say that its the worst Zelda to date.
>>332611547
Collecting the tears in SS was fun as fuck.
And i never watched Pirates of the Caribbean. What are you referring to?
The people who hate SS won't be the majority on /v/ in a few years from now
We'll get on with our lives and a younger batch of shitposters will replace us
Or else you might get left behind, futilely arguing that MM/WW/TP/SS is actually shit, and nobody understands.
>>332612218
>If it wasn't for that one thing, then SS would be beloved in just a few years from today.
Yeah I'm sure people would forget the million other complaints that aren't related to motion controls like the linear world map, pointless sky world, backtracking to an nth degree, Fi existing, tear hunts returning, the shitty art direction due to hiding the Wii's limitations, etc.
Gotta love how delusional SS dickriders are.
>i-i-its just the motion controls g-guys!
>>332612039
Midna wasn't that great honestly.
>hogged too much of the damn story, to the point of taking away other characters' limelight.
>had a likable personality only to block out of the handholding hleping shit she did for the player
>fetish waifu fapbait
Honestly, I just want a console Zelda without a companion for once. That or at least give us a sort of Skyrim or Fallout Deal where we can choose our own.
>>332612158
Wow tumblr users are more easily triggered than I thought
>>332605358
How come you didn't get this pissed off over Wii Sports, which would have been a bigger "lie" according to you?
>>332612617
You just proved anon's point
>>332612617
I agree with everything you said except the art direction.
>hiding the Wii's limitations
Like what literally every console game does.
>>332610192
What the fuck are you talking about
The games gonna be harder to play compared to the Gamecube and N64 games because it requires a peripheral that most people don't own and isn't produced anymore to play, and Nintendo won't be able to easily put it on a Virtual Console service for a system that doesn't support the Wiimote.
Where the fuck are you getting tumblr from?
>>332612617
>Yeah I'm sure people would forget the million other complaints that aren't related to motion controls
Yes, they would. Just like they did with Twilight Princess, and WW.
That's how the Zelda cycle functions. The cycle doesn't work, if nobody forgives the bad parts of the games.
My point is that the motion controls are special, in that they really are unforgivable.
>>332611547
>simon says
every thread
>>332557908
It's the MGSV of the zelda series
>>332612873
>anons point was people only hate it for the motion controls
>posts tons of other shared complaints
What next level trolling is this?
>>332612597
I still don't think it'll happen this time around. At least not to the extent of WW or TP.
SS didn't sell very well and kids today don't give a single flying fuck about Zelda anymore, the last time kids and teens gave a genuine fuck about the franchise was TP.
If anything, I would say that Zelda's primary target audience is now the 16-35 range. Definitely not today's Ipad and Mindcraft-loving children, much to Nintendo's desires and dismay.
and MM should get a pass in this regard because it was a direct sequel many of the fans who played it at the time of release were just kids who didn't comprehend the story, atmosphere or themes it was trying to tell. That's why there was a resurgence of it back in 2006-2011; older fans were replaying it and catching all of the details and game mechanics they initially ignored. It wasn't a case of nostalgia like OoT, WW or TP.
>>332611547
Tear drop quest in SS took me by surprise.
I didn't expect them to bring that shit back.
Also I felt like the motion controls were pretty decent, although I didn't play TP on the Wii so I don't know how much of an improvement was made.
>>332612689
At least Midna didn't pop up every 5 minutes to tell me what I'm supposed to do in each dungeon room.
>>332612897
More people own wii remotes than wii u consoles.
>>332612876
Game makers do this yes, but the awful draw distance / blur effect disguised as "water color art" was terrible. Anything more than a few feet away became a gaussian blur and it looked like shit.
Posting an upscaled Dolphin screenshot means jack, we're talking about the game as-it-was on the Wii.
>>332612846
That game was for the base Wii. They knew the wiimote sensors weren't good enough for anything complicated, so all the minigames were very, very simple and tended to use simple pointer motion.
The lie in SS is the way you hold your sword when not attacking. Link holds it the way you hold your wiimote and moves it as you move, However, the actual attacks have nothing to do with that. They don't depend on how or where you're holding your remote, just which direction you flick it. The way Link holds his sword does nothing but give players totally the wrong idea about the way the game works.
>>332613195
>At least Midna didn't pop up every 5 minutes to tell me what I'm supposed to do in each dungeon room.
No, but that doesn't mean the series should continue to feature Midna-like companions.
>>332613294
Skyward Sword is only playable with motion plus though and I'm pretty sure that happened late in the Wii's lifetime.
I see the Wii everywhere but only know one guy who bothered to get one of those
>>332613463
>Skyward Sword is only playable with motion plus though and I'm pretty sure that happened late in the Wii's lifetime.
That as well. Another reason why it won't be remembered down the line.
>>332611296
Didn't even say that it had the easiest dungeons, just that the dungeons sucked outside of maybe one and parts of another.
>>332612689
So your complaint is that the side character actually mattered and had a decent story?
Midna having a good story didn't rob the "limelight" from others. The others had shit story.
We should have good main characters and good side characters.
Midna's story and character actually being interesting is part of why she's beloved. It's not like Midna is the reason they shoehorned Ganon to shit on Zant's setup and made Zelda's shining scene her surrendering Hyrule without a fight.
>>332613602
>So your complaint is that the side character actually mattered and had a decent story?
More like she ended up hogging most of the importance later down the line. Zelda was a joke. Link literally became her lackey. Ganondorf was shoe-horned, Arbiter's Grounds cuts scene regardless.
>Midna's story and character actually being interesting is part of why she's beloved.
Yes, she had an interesting personality but she was also designed to be fetish fap bait. I'm sure that's another big contribute to her popularity as well.
>>332612689
>>332613386
I really like companions. But not Midna so much. I agree that she hogged a lot of the story. And her cheeky attitude was more annoying than endearing.
I'm fond of tatl. I feel like she was the perfect balance of being helpful but not intrusive, with personality but not annoying.
>>332613838
>More like she ended up hogging most of the importance later down the line. Zelda was a joke. Link literally became her lackey. Ganondorf was shoe-horned, Arbiter's Grounds cuts scene regardless.
Did you literally not read my post?
>>332613602
>It's not like Midna is the reason they shoehorned Ganon to shit on Zant's setup and made Zelda's shining scene her surrendering Hyrule without a fight.
>>332613954
It's more like the others had shit story to make Midna more endearing. Or that they spent so much dev time on developing Midna that they forgot the rest of the cast.
>>332613312
Just because the game is emulated at 1080 doesn't mean the textures and art design in the game magically changes. Its just puts on a clearer display.
And the bloom is charming.
>>332613365
The game is very up front about there only being 8 directions you can slash in. There is no lie. You're insane if you think the 1:1 non-swinging sword is a lie when the sword tutorial itself tells you there are only 8 directions to swing in.
I don't know what you mean by the sword not being dependent on how you hold the remote. If you do a vertical swing but you hold the remote at an angle it'd register as a diagonal. If you're just saying that it doesn't open up new swinging options based on angle then again, the game is very upfront about there being 8 attack directions.
>>332613463
>muh personal anecdote
You're right about the motion plus coming late, but it also just started being built into the wiimotes at some point.
I've played every Zelda worth playing and I don't think Skyward Sword was bad. Different for sure, but not bad. It did hold your hand a little too much in the beginning, with very long introductory instruction dialogue, but the motion controls were good, if you had the legit motion sensor wii remote, not that shitty addon thing. Actually the controls were AMAZING if you had the patients to learn how to use them. Activating any scoped item made where you were holding the wii remote at that exact moment the center position. If you were a fucking idiot and held the remote to the ceiling during those critical moments your controls were bound to get fucked up until you reset them again. Too many people were too stupid to realize that you could reset the center position at will. Bringing up the map had the same effect, so if you brought up the map while holding the control at the floor like a goof, well guess what, you fucked up what should have been a great experience for you and I feel sorry.
tl;dr SS was good if you had the patients for it, which you should have because it's fucking Zelda.
>>332613090
Youre all retards if you can't handle the controls, you should be put in an oven
>>332614327
I feel like people didn't read when the sword teacher tells you that if your sword feels like it swings funny that you just need to do a few overhead vertical swings in a row. Then you get the occasional person that thought the motion plus meant you didn't need a sensor bar.
>>332614154
Skyward sword has to be played in 480p. It seriously looks like shit otherwise, but it's pretty good looking at the resolution it was intended for. Fortunately, the wii U has a 480p option. Remember that Wii U people who give a shit about playing Skyward Sword again.
>>332614154
Not that anon but I thought the game still had hideous art direction.
Not a lot of contrast going on with color palette or the settings, so every environment looked like some Pastel Mario platformer kind of bullshit and it wasn't very immersive at all.
Not to mention that the character and enemy designs were extremely inconsistent. Everything felt and looked so child-friendly and watered down that it ruined my immersion to the point where I felt like I was no longer on a varied adventure but playing some kind of safe, theme park Disney-tier shit. Even Wind Waker had its dark areas and knew when to be serious or surreal at times.
>>332614451
>>332614549
>>332614327
So much this.
Everyone in this thread
> "ermigerd, is not control iz used tooo! game suckz"
>>332614750
>this post is real
>>332614195
>I don't know what you mean by the sword not being dependent on how you hold the remote.
You know how, when you're not attcking, Link holds his sword the way you're holding our wiimote? If you hold your wiimote to your left he'll hold his sword to the left, if you hold it up he'll point it up and so on? This has no impact on the way he actually slashes. If you hold your wiimote to your left then flick even further to the left, Link will attack from the right. If you hold your wiimote to your right then flick up, he'll attack from the bottom.
The visual feedback that the game is giving you every single second (that's not part of an attack animation) is that Link's sword acts like a real sword, but that's just not how the game works. I don't care what the game tells you to do, the visual information it gives the player is a lie.
>>332614992
Yes it's real. Are you saying that Skyward Sword actually had decent art direction? Is this a fucking joke?
>>332615049
Did you even read the rest of my post? I had a very clear 'if you mean x' section and your post not is just explaining the same x.
And you managed to ignore the game being very upfront and honest about the 8 directions, I assume because you have no response and just need to keep your narrative alive.
>>332615061
I'm not the anon you were arguing with spaz.
>>332612876
The art style is alright, but it really suffers from low res. I played it not too long ago and much of the game was a blurry mess.
ss was fucking shit
>>332615221
Then why did you link to my post?
In 5-10 years people will like it, because the kids who played it when they were 12 would be of posting age.
This is the reason the Zelda cycle exists. It's real.
>>332615424
12 year old kids don't play console Zelda anymore
>>332615337
Because your post is hilarious.
>>332557908
How do you mean? People thought it was shit on release? Why would it take them 10 more years for people to feel the same way?
I loved the game, but the only complaint I have is that I couldn't get the stabbing to work. Whether it's the game or just me, it made one of the boss fights more difficult
>>332615607
Did you try stabbing with the wiimote?
>>332614154
The SS bloom is used pretty well, in that it's only noticeable when you're looking at a bright object in dark area. Bloom from lava in a cave is great.
WW HD bloom is godawful because it's included in every single scene. It's like the game is designed to simulate the feeling of going outside after a sleepness night spent watching a computer monitor. Everything is so bright and bloomy that you can't see details, objects blur together and the sky is almost painful to look at.
>>332615509
>12 year old kids don't play console Zelda anymore
This. The last time they did was TP. Not to mention that Skyward Sword required some pricey peripheral to play it, so that didn't exactly help its sales with kids either. It's not going to be seen through nostaglic rose-tinted glasses like the others for this reason alone.
When is Nintendo going to learn and accept that the Zelda fanbase consists of older teens to thirty-somethings now?
>>332614750
>pastel art
>bad
If you can't immerse yourself in a cool pastel painting then I don't know what to tell you anon, maybe nitty gritty shooty mctooty game is the game for you. Nothing wrong with that.
>>332614750
They wanted to find a middle ground between Wind Waker and Twilight Princess and it wound up being about as scatterbrained as you'd expect from an attempt to merge such disparate styles. SS has easily the worst character design in the whole series.
>>332615685
Yes, the controls worked perfectly for me otherwise, and other than the boss fight I could stab ok
It probably is just me
>>332615850
You chose a terrible screenshot to showcase that and the game originally ran at 360p on the Wii so its effects didn't work that well.
>>332615949
>game originally ran at 360p on the Wii so its effects didn't work that well
So you admit the effects were cool?
>>332615919
So you only had the issue during one fight in the entire game and you phrase it as "I couldn't get the stabbing to work."?
>>332615850
>lol you didn't like this shitty art style
>you must like shitty gritty grey realistic graphics instead!
Classic Nintendrone logic.
The pastel look was a neat idea, but like TP art direction, their shitty systems and hardware just can't utilize it to its full potential. Thanks to the wii's horrible resolution, the painterly backdrop distance effect actually made the game look worse in the long run.
Also as I've already mentioned, the color palette was too samey, sans for the fire areas to an extent, I guess. And it doesn't really help that you posted a screenshot with one of the goofiest-looking bosses in the entire game.
I've played Zelda 1, LttP, OoT, MM, WW, LA and LBW all in the past month or so, only just clicked with the series but I've been marathoning them. Where should I go next? Oracle? Minish? DS games?
>>332616407
Oracles if you're looking to play a 2D game next
TP if you're looking to play a 3D game
>>332605345
A major focus of the game were it's motion controls. If you didn't dig/get the motion controls you didn't like SS. Everything about that game was just an excuse to swing your sword around, but I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I fucking loved it. It really is a shame so many people for one reason or another just didn't get the motion controls.
>>332616407
I've been meaning to do the same but keep slacking off and just shitpost on /v/ instead..
Is this your first time playing through them all?
>>332616407
What do you like about the games you've played and which entries did you like the best?
>>332616407
Twilight Princess, Oracles games and Minish Cap. Maybe Zelda 1 and AoL, but they feel pretty dated by today's standards.
After that, just wait for Zelda U. Don't bother with the rest of the series.
>>332616294
>just the lava place
Also I hope you guys do know that you could've emulated Skyward Sword basically as soon as the game came out in glorious 1080p
>>332615831
Never. Nintendo will never do that. They design every game they make for everyone. It's the way they've literally always have been. It's the reason for all of their success.
>>332616704
I find Zelda 1 still fun to play. I dont know what it is about it, but its just fun despite being 30 years old now.
>>332616736
Are you implying at Lanayru desert looked good?
Because that particular dungeon looked messy as shit. Looks more like a child's lego playset than an actual ancient magitech mining facility and factory.
>>332616736
Or we can wait until 2021 for Skyward Sword HD :^)
>>332616616
Yeah, had Ocarina on 3DS with a savefile left at around the fire temple. I used to really dislike Zelda, but I've wanted to give it a last serious attempt and I've stockpiled most of them over the years. I ended up playing the last half of OoT in one day, and moved straight onto Majora. I don't know why the series clicked so suddenly, but I can't get enough. It's a shame there's not really that many when you look back, 3 mainline 2D, 5 mainline 2D and 7 main handhelds that'll take up the bulk of the time. Link's awakening is tied with Majora's as my favourite so far.
>>332616850
Looked cool to me
>>332616968
Why would you buy that piece of shit zelda game twice?
guise, guise, guise
it will all be better soon.
>>332617051
Do we know anything about this game besides "its open world" and "the horse dodges trees"
Should I just keep dumping HD screenshots?
>>332617051
Its funny how I enjoy Skyward Sword's artstyle yet the Wii U Zelda's art style really irks me. Well, mostly the environment of the Wii U zelda. That monster they showed off looked cool.
>>332616996
I'm glad you like them. I have only played Zelda 1, LttP, OoT and SS. I've been meaning to play the rest since I've also slowly aquired most of them, but never gotten around to play them. They're indeed really fun.
And yes, at first it seems there's a shitload of titles that have piled up over the years, but then you realize you can burn through them pretty easily.
Have fun playing the rest man.
>>332616786
>They design every game they make for everyone
Not really. More like they make games for literal children now.
Where's the variety? What about some dark themes to balance all of the lighthearted goofy crap? Will we ever get an ending as emotionally bittersweet as WW's or come across a dungeon as eerie and atmospheric as OoT's Forest Temple or Well ever again? What about dark and creepy narrative themes like MM?
It's all so fucking lighthearted now. There's no sense of conflict unease or danger anymore. After TP, the Zelda games feel less and less like genuine adventures and more like safe shovelware for literal children.
>>332617051
Yeah sure. That's what they said about Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess back in the day as well.
>>332617032
>Why would you buy that piece of shit zelda game twice?
I was half joking, but an HD remaster would most likely get rid of the annoying things people usually complain about, like Fi being an annoying pesky cunt treating you like you're clinically retarded, or get rid of the stupid mini games, or that dumb annoying tone fish miniquest.
>>332617160
Link can become Morpheus when jumping off of horse.
And the map is fucking huge.You probably already knew both of those
Other than that, we KNOW very little, there's a lot of conjecture and possibilities that aren't necessarily baseless, but still only conjecture...
>>332615221
No, you missed my point. The fact that the game is open about you being able to slash in eight directions doesn't matter, what matters is that the game has a sharp divide between attack animations and non-attack animations.
When you're not attacking, Link holds his sword the way you're holding the wiimote and moves it around the away you move your hand. If you hold your wiimote to the left, Link holds his sword to the left.
When you attack, the game detects acceleration in one of eight directions then plays the corresponding attack animation. If you flick to the right, Link attacks to the right.
These two aspects of the game are entirely disconnected from each other. Link can perform any attack animation regardless of where you're holding the wiimote. If you flick down and to the right, you're perform an attack down and to the right, it doesn't matter if you were holding your down in the bottom right in the first place. Link's attack animations can effectively teleport your sword wherever it needs to be.
The game is open about how many attack options you have, but the idle animations are lying about the importance of position. It doesn't matter where you hold the wiimote, it only matters how you move it.
To give a full example: Let's say you're holding your sword to your right but the enemy is blocking from your right. The idle animation shows Link's sword held beyond the enemy block, so common sense would say you need to reposition your sword before you can attack. If you move your sword slowly, the enemy can reposition their guard. If you move your sword quickly the game interprets it as an attack from the right, which is blocked. What you actually have to do to hit the enemy is flick further to the right. In real life this would do nothing, you'd just slash thin air, but in SS Link teleports his sword into the right position and strikes the enemy.
>>332617525
>And the map is fucking huge.
And filled with nothing :^)
>we want the skyrim audience
Am I the only one who doesn't care about the art style or story? I just love the gameplay loop of approaching a new dungeon and looking forward to what your new equipment will be, then emerging and exploring the overworld to see what new stuff you can do. Combat is secondary, as long as it works and the controls are comfortable.
>>332617160
We've gotten some hints of the plot on account of what Link is wearing and what equipment he's carrying.
>>332615061
SS enemy design is just so bad. It's insane. Any one of these designs should have got someone fired.
The core idea of a paintbrush art style is great, but the enemy designs are entirely disconnected from it.
>>332617525
>Link can become Morpheus when jumping off of horse.
I remember that from the GDC footage.
Man that looked so clunky and bad. Hope they improved that combat aspect, and am wondering if they implemented it into other forms of combat as well, such as sword fighting.
>>332557908
No 2 is bad this one is just unliked but not bad
>>332617594
>And filled with nothing :^)
OoT
Wind Waker
>>332617525
I attributed the map size to open world.
Forgot about the bullet time stuff though.
>>332617765
You can tell it was the result of them playing it safe because they were afraid of scaring the real young kiddies. Aonuma's after-comments about him dumbing down the designs thanks to his son being scared of TP's "scary" monsters didn't help, either.
>>332617808
exactly
>>332617378
I know what your getting at man, but you're jumping the gun. There hasn't been a legitimate console sequel since Skyward Sword yet, and before Skyward Sword there was Twilight Princess, which was the darkest Zelda there was, at least in terms of theme. I have faith for Zelda Wii U.
Also, Zelda is a lighthearted game man. It's had it's creepy/dark moments, but those moments are only memorable because 80 percent of the game is typically not that. It has more of an effect that way.
>>332617903
>which was the darkest Zelda there was, at least in terms of theme.
Twilight Princess isn't truly dark. It's like fake wanna-be teen edge dark. Even the theme wasn't that dark.
It had the darkest take on art direction throughout the franchise, but even then that's somewhat debatable and that's all it has going for it.
>>332617903
Redeads were scarier than anything in TP. His son is a pussy and needs to get along with the theme of zelda and get some fucking courage.
>>332617878
Aonuma's son needs to die in a fire, or maybe get taken away by child services.
>My son likes messing around in villages so let's start TP with an hour of running errands in a village! When people think Zelda, they think about herding goats and feeding cats!
>My son likes trains so let's make a game that's all about trains.
>My son likes shoebills so let's have Link fly on a shoebill
>My son gets scared when games are too serious so let's have wacky robot adventures!
>[raughs]
>>332617338
I'd highly recommend MM, it's incredible. If you only concentrate on the main dungeons it'll be short, but every NPC has a routine and a backstory that you can get involved in, and it has a great atmosphere. The 3DS remake has a lot of ease-of-use inclusions that let you skip to a specific time in the day etc, stops you needing to wait around.
>>332617656
Those theories sound a lot like reading way too far into things. This is Zelda we're talking about, I don't expect much from these writers.
>>332618112
Sometimes I wonder if Aonuma just uses his son as an excuse of his and other suits' shitty and balless decisions.
>>332617567
>To give a full example: Let's say you're holding your sword to your right but the enemy is blocking from your right. The idle animation shows Link's sword held beyond the enemy block, so common sense would say you need to reposition your sword before you can attack. If you move your sword slowly, the enemy can reposition their guard. If you move your sword quickly the game interprets it as an attack from the right, which is blocked. What you actually have to do to hit the enemy is flick further to the right. In real life this would do nothing, you'd just slash thin air, but in SS Link teleports his sword into the right position and strikes the enemy.
I figured this out for the first Ghirahim fight. Once you think of the game in those terms it's easy to grasp the swordfighting controls.
>>332618217
>implying the sheikah book from the recent 10 second clip won't have some important gameplay and narrative gimmick
>gerudo bracers on his arms mean nothing
>the robot chasing him in the field and Link using some plasma dagger slapped on an arrow to take it down means absolutely nothing
???
>>332557908
Demise is still the best final boss fight in the 3D Zeldas.
>>332618514
I think it's just as likely that they threw those symbols on just because they thought it looked cool. I doubt there will be any significance to those symbols.
>>332559898
this anon
he understands me.
skyward sword's dungeons were so fucking cut and dry. zelda's always been guilty of lock and key design, but skyward sword has a few puzzles that are just easter egg hunts.
>>332617567
Such a long post and you're just repeating yourself. There's no lie, no dishonesty. You need his arm to do something when you're walking with the sword out, so it's 1:1 because they can. You're some kind of conspiracy theory you're drumming up here.
>>332618319
Yeah, the best way to play the game is to hold the wiimote straight out in front of you and focus only on the direction you're flicking. If you do that, it controls mostly OK. (I had some trouble with spin attacks and shield bashes which I think is because the gyro in the nunchuck is worse than the wii motion+)
That said, I'd be amazed if a lot of the complains about the inaccurate controls and slow paced combat don't come from this. It's too easy to slip back into using common sense.
>>332557908
>the ugly duckling of the mainline console titles
Not really, it's consistent for Zelda, that is the quality of the games have been nothing but a downsloping line. Skyward is shitty as fuck but it's no ugly ducking. The next one will be even worse.
>>332618695
Actually the Zelda team is pretty consistent when it comes to symbols and whatnot in Zelda lore.
Example being, the Gerudo have a red and blue color scheme going on with their tribal stuff and coincidentally that carried over to SS with the Lanayru Desert ruins. We also see it in Ikana Valley in MM. So it's safe to assume it correlates with a desert theme, for example.
Yes, they're not always 100% on spot with it, but they are more than they aren't. I'll take it as an indication of something more. His original shield from the E3 trailer and the game awards footage gave off some big clues too.
>>332618015
That's why I said, "at least in terms of theme." It totally could be argued that it wasn't actually that dark, and I agree with that, but they were at least trying to make it dark. They acknowledged that there was an interest in the darker side of Zelda. That earns points in my book.
One of the major gripes voiced in this thread about Skyward Sword is that it was linear, which is totally true. Zelda Wii U is meant to be an open world, like the original games. I have faith in Nintendo. They've always had their failures. But we remember their wins.
>>332619138
They've changed the hylian runes/lettering multiple times throughout the series, based on order of release instead of ingame timeline.
>>332559898
It's kind of strange that you listed all the 3D ones since they're generally not very good but only bothered to list one 2D one and those tend to be decent.
That's not a knock on 3D vs 2D. They've just taken poor design decision and strategies with the 3D titles.
>>332619143
I'm not putting any faith in them since console Zelda has been nothing but a downward slope since WW.
>aonuma made it shit on purpose to break the cycle
fucking based, i like skyward sword now
>>332619395
What's this "cycle"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRd5hd2BlC0
This review will probably piss some of you off to no end. Suddenly remembered it. Had to post it. I liked Skyward Sword, but they gush over it fucking hard.
>>332619221
Language isn't a big deal and never has been, but architecture and symbolism is; it's what defines cultures, lore and races in Zelda for the people that play it.
I mean you can't just say that this is some random fucking eye symbol in every game that holds no inherent value or is retconned to be something else in every new establishment, for example. Same goes with the Gerudo symbol, the royal family crest and so on. They need to have some consistency.
>>332612995
"simon says" is the "waiting" of Skyward Sword
>>332619464
the zelda cycle
>new zelda comes out
>everyone hates it but they like the last one
>new zelda comes out
>everyone hates it but they like the last one
>>332619506
And I forgot to post the image, my bad.
>>332558712
>Twilight Princess
>Shit
Don't cut yourself on that edge, bruh
>>332619464
>new game comes out
>everyone too fat to wave their arms complain
>>332618875
Did you read the example at all? The game has two sets of conflicting mechanics, so the visuals don't always match up with the way the game plays. That's it. Whenever it looks like you shouldn't be able to hit an enemy but you can, the game is lying to you.
>conspiracy theory
It's just bad visual design, Anon. What would possibly be a conspiracy here?
>>332619491
Gamespot probably had the best review for it.
>>332619538
Everyone I know loved Link Between Worlds despite being easy. It was a great game. Loads of people loved TP on release, same with Skyward (both got 9s-10s), the hate comes a few months later. They're all good games, just different from each other.
>>332619674
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDNk_zVJfb8
>all those thumbs down
lol
>>332619506
>>332619565
Sure, the symbol might be attached to the Sheikah, but that doesn't mean it's important in any way. It's not like the Sheikah Stones have any plot importance, they're just there. Just like how Link might get a "Sheikah Book" that ultimately has no significance to the plot in any way.
Skyward Sword doesn't nearly deserve the hate it gets. The art style is good, the overworld areas on the ground are fantastic, and the music is great.
>>332565816
>Also, if you can't get the motion controls to work in SS, you are a fundamentally broken human being.
Yeah cuz the fact that I put my controller down flat upside down on the table and the harp at Kina's place just fucking throws in random notes when the god damn thing isn't even moving is really a reflection of my ability to move my arm accurately. The only other games that have problems with the fucking wii mote are Nintendo garbage like wii sports where the calibration goes to fuck.
I can get perfect control on playstation move playing tennis table accurately for fucking eight hours straight. I hit up FPS and tend to hit accuracy and HS percentage in the upper 10% percentile. But you put a wiimote and Nintendo game in my hand and apparently I'm fucking Marty McFly all of a sudden. Also, props on me being the problem with the god damn beetle not actually to level out after it turns. Totally my problem that there's no center for the god damn alignment on it.
Yeah, maybe go fuck yourself.
>>332557908
I have always enjoyed Skyward Sword more than Twilight Princess, thought hat may not be saying all too much.
I just could never, and still can't stand how bloody slow Skyward Sword is.
The common enemy design that blocks from all kinds of directions are stupid. But aside from it, combat is actually a lot better and more engaging in Skyward Sword.
Bosses are generally more varied and interesting too.
Movement in the game is a lot better and a lot more engaging. The sprint really does a lot. It's pretty refreshing to finally have a 3D Zelda where rolling over and over again isn't faster than running, and where running is actually pretty decent by itself while also having sprinting that's better than what we've had before.
But the whole running up walls and grabbing ledges and all of that was also a lot better in Skyward Sword. For once the game actually conveyed how far up Link reach and how he would reach various places, and when applied in practice, Link could reach just about all the places that made sense. In previous 3D Zelda, there are tons of walls/ledges and stuff you feel like Link should be able to reach but can't since it was never intended for you to reach them/reach them from there.
And while still not perfect, collecting collectibles and rupees is probably the most rewarding in all of 3D Zelda as well. Yes, you will run out of things to upgrade/spend rupees on eventually, but the things still last more or less the longest they've ever done.
Even Fi is pretty interesting, when it's on your terms. If you ever play Skyward Sword I hope you actually do call on Fi on just about everything, and every person friend or enemy that you can lock onto. The observations and trivia are overall quite interesting and or amusing.
>>332612689
>>332613195
>Midna hogged the story
So you're telling me that the game Twilight Princess should have focused less on the actual Twilight Princess?
>>332619852
What really drags everything down is how fucking slow it is. Every other time you turn around a corner Fi wants to say something whether or not you are interested. It sadly makes it so that even though Fi can be both interesting and amusing, you never want to speak to her when she can be just because they force her on you when she isn't.
Every time you pick up a new object the game stops to a halt in order to zoom in and explain what you picked up. And every time you load/start a new session and pick up a collectible or an insect, you'll have to go through that bullshit all over again. It ultimately has an adverse effect where you barely even want to pick up anything at all just due to what a fucking drag it is.
As mentioned, the combat in Skyward Sword is actually great. Its use of Stamina is quite limited but it actually helps in making things more engaging. The whole Skyward strike/charge thing was a great idea. The spin attacks also had much more weight behind them, really sending enemies flying even if they were blocking, probably due to it actually draining stamina this time around. And the ability to use shields to counter attack is also a huge thing, especially if you don't want to play that stupid N, W, S, E blocking game with the enemies that block. With blocking still being dangerous if you blocked a powerful strike poorly, due to it stunning you. And while the motion controls were balls half of the time, having an influence over what direction you're attacking from and it actually being relevant was pretty cool. Flipping giant spiders over by attacking from below will never not be satisfying.
But that stupid N, W, S, E game that far too many enemies were designed around is just awful and drags combat down to a halt. Even if you master the wonky and unreliable motion controls, it still slows combat down something fierce. If it wasn't for the shield or alternative combat items, combat would have been almost unsalvageable in spite of things.
>>332619731
Everyone will say handheld games "don't count" simply because it invalidates the whole theory. Really the only cycle we've got is that every major console Zelda game since OoT (or MM, depending on who you ask) has been worse than the last one, so it gets more hate and becomes the new worst Zelda.
>>332619963
And as much as some may like the story or whatever, it really just slowed the game down something ridiculously with the extended scenes that were nothing but slow dialogue. I will admit that the story is kind of cute, but for a game that is already slow and already has pacing issues, that sure doesn't help. It's just an incredibly slow game and it drives you mad while playing since most of it is truly entirely unnecessary.
Skyloft also deserves a mention. It may be full of fetch quests and what have you, but it's still probably the best town in 3D Zelda if you ignore MM. With surprisingly fleshed out characters that you with basically all of them, get to see from at the very least one other perspective other than the one they were initially introduced and presented under. So that's also a huge plus over Twilight Princess.
But then you also become sad at how it's essentially the only town in the game. It sucks, but at the very least they had a town that actually felt alive. It's also a town that evolves as you play the game. So you feel the development. Yet another plus.
Skyward Sword did a lot right, with lots of things having having been huge improvements. And then they just bog all that down making it really tough to enjoy by fucking up everything around it.
But all things considered. When Skyward Sword actually flows, which I admit may be kind of rare, I find it to be a lot more fun than Twilight Princess. And that has always been my impression. I just always critique Skyward Sword due to how it blew its potential, but it's still more interesting than Twilight Princess that still kind of sucks even when everything is flowing perfectly. Midna is still the best though. Though I wish she would comment on all the enemies and NPCs like Fi can.
>>332619672
You think video games are lying to you. You're a crazy person.
>>332619565
I don't know, Anon. In OoT we got a bit of a backstory for the eye and the tear, but then it turns up unchanged in SS. Same with the Hylian Shield and various other symbols or allusions, the Zelda team seems to use things without thinking about it.
>>332607520
Pretty much.
>>332572056
>The sand ocean was fucking awesome.
No it wasn't.
Groose is still a fag.
>>332612689
>That or at least give us a sort of Skyrim or Fallout Deal where we can choose our own.
So instead of having a fleshed out companion that evolves and grows in the story together with the protagonist.
You want a bunch of disconnected partners to just sit around at a tavern or your base of operations, being ready to just tag along your adventure at any given notice, and not evolve with the events the protagonist goes through since they can and are likely to miss most of the notable events?
Sounds pretty shit to be honest fampai.
>>332557908
>It'll forever be remembered as the ugly duckling of the mainline console titles and no amount of bitching will ever change that.
Not if Nintendo manage to fuck up Zelda U even worse, and they will.
>>332619768
I dont' think they'd show off an item like that if it wasn't important to the plot and-or the gameplay in any way.
>>332620136
Agreed, but regardless of how the lore behind the symbols might be retconned, they're still always associated with a certain tribe or theme in the series. Nobody on the Zelda team is going to take the Goron crest and retcon it into the Gerudo symbol for example. They only do such if it causes some public controversy with a minority group, such as the original Gerudo symbol being the Muslim crest.
>>332620283
>You want a bunch of disconnected partners to just sit around at a tavern or your base of operations, being ready to just tag along your adventure at any given notice, and not evolve with the events the protagonist goes through since they can and are likely to miss most of the notable events?
If they have entertaining, charming personalities and interacting with them for an extended period of time unlocks various quests chains within said areas, then sure why not.
It's not like I grew attached to Fi or even the King of Red Lions anyway.
holy shit you fucking faggots. you'll praise Anal Fantasy, Persona, "indie" shit like Minecraft, Callabooty, Street Fighter, "New" Super mario bros, all this fucking trash like every installment is some divine miracle bestowed on you by the gods and let the developers jerk off in your face as you pay microtransactions out the ass, and when a legitimately good, but sort-of-arguably sub-par for the franchise game comes out you all have a shit fit like you got raped (by someone OTHER then Notch) you sperg out and act like it's teh WORST GAM EVAR
seriously /v/, go back to playing with virtual legos, analyzing flowcharts and thousands of button combos for your shit 1v1 fighters, and choosing waifus and let the REAL GAMERS discuss REAL GAMES.
Also another good thing that Skyward Sword has other than artstyle is the music. The music is really wonderful.
It could be better than Wind Waker's music.
>>332620565
Zelda is now microtransaction animu pandering trash trash just like the rest of the ones you've listed, and it's been trash for a while now. The last semi-decent game was TP, and that's being generous.
>>332619852
>The common enemy design that blocks from all kinds of directions are stupid. But aside from it, combat is actually a lot better and more engaging in Skyward Sword.
No, it isn't. TP combat literally shits on SS.
>Movement in the game is a lot better and a lot more engaging. The sprint really does a lot.
Sprinting is nice, green shit fruit to sprint is not. Climbing was improved, wall runs were good.
The movement overall in that respect was nice. The fact that you could move in fucking first person looking around correctly was great. This and the graphics style (especially being brighter in the era of non-existent black levels) is basically the only thing worth taking from the game.
>Even Fi is pretty interesting
No she isn't. There are no terms where anything she does or says is worthwhile.
>The observations and trivia are overall quite interesting and or amusing.
No they aren't. Worse is the fact that it takes an hour for anything to get said in the fucking game makes even trying to talk to her even fucking worse.
>>332620707
As much as I hate skyward I love its music
I feel like Demise part 2 was only a few steps away from being the best final boss theme the series has ever had.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdl2Uiuncqk Hyrule Warriors also made a pretty meh song from it into something so great I put it inProject M
still though, a lot of my favorite tracks come from the gamecube duo
>>332620136
>In OoT we got a bit of a backstory for the eye and the tear
fan fiction not actually in the game
>>332620075
Just in case you're being genuine, I'm using "lying" when I really should be using "misleading".
Bad visual design can make players think they should behave one way when actually they should be behaving another way. Even small mismatches between the game and he visuals can really impact on how enjoyable something is to play.
See also: Dark Souls hitboxes that lag behind your character model, meaning sometimes you get damaged by attacks that missed, or in extreme circumstances can result in your model teleporting into enemies' hands to get eaten to death.
>>332557908
Skyward Sword is nowhere near the good Zelda games (the first five). But its still better than Twilight Princess, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks.
If Zelda U doesn't live up to the monumental hype Aonuma is putting into it, then Skyward Sword will gain even more public favor. Just like Metroid Fusion gained more respect after how horrible Other M was.
>>332620769
>TP combat literally shits on SS.
>>332619508
this anon gets it
>>332620769
>No, it isn't. TP combat literally shits on SS.
TP combat is pretty shit to be honest. I'd be inclined to argue it has even worse combat than OoT, MM since the shield is even more irrelevant in it. Or WW since WW at the very least took positioning into regards to a slight degree with the counters.
TP's combat is flashy. It's the flashiest combat Zelda has had. But it is also the most redundant combat Zelda has ever had. The new moves you get are cool and all, but you were decimating enemies with or without them. And the way you engage enemies remain the same throughout, with or without combat upgrades.
TheSouls gamesshould have hada Fi character.
That way you could have gotten additional lore beyond item descriptions.
Which Zelda has the best puzzles? I love a good dungeon, but I hate short combat-centric ones, and ones with bullshit "bomb random wall to continue" areas too. I like logical puzzles that feel satisfying to beat.
>>332622324
The whole point is that you travel completely alone in isolation. You die endlessly, everything else dies endlessly, you're in a cycle of isolation that you can't escape. It'd defeat the point to have a constant companion to help you out.
>>332617594
>And filled with nothing :^)
Monolith are working on the overworld. It'll be fine. They know their overworlds.
>>332622991
It could be a computer. It's essentially what Fi already is.
But honestly. Having a ghost or spirit loom over you for most of the game could work. It would be menacing in its own right. Especially if it goes crazy at one point in the story leading you to fight it.
Like a crestfallen warrior, that follows you around in ghost form until you have to kill it.
>>332557908
You're retarded. Only the dumbfaggots who like Wind Waker think Skyward Sword is anything other than the best game in the main series.
This and Twilight Princess are the only good Zelda games since the N64 days.
>>332623170
It could be well done, but only if it wasn't always there. If it appears in the distance or on an unreachable cliff far away just watching every now and then, it'd be a bit creepy. I liked the moon in Majora's Mask, the constant reminder of your own life ticking away, but I don't know how that feeling could be replicated without compromising the loneliness.
MM > OoT > TP > WW > SS
i actually enjoyed TPs motion control combat, but overall OoT has aged much better.
>>332623338
It'd be cool if there was no way to interact with it directly. It shows up on top of a structure watching, but when you reach the top nothing is there. You see it multiple times, but you don't fight it or directly find out who it is. If you try and rangekill it your character could light up in flames or something crashes from the sky. The lore could hint at who but not fully answer, like Gwyn's son.
>>332557908
The only people who will think SS is a classic in five to ten years are the ones who already thought as much upon release.
Ten years from now, a whole new crop of Zelda fans will be going back to play Skyward Sword for the first time, and be completely baffled by the motion control craze of the time that SS adhered to.
2D >MM > WW > OoT > SS > TP
>>332570389
This is correct. I did not play the game until last year, long after motion controls had died out, and could not fucking stand it.
>>332616829
That shouldn't be surprising. It's the "hey, lets drop the player into a world and let them sort their shit out" game.
>>332596392
2005 was such an amazing year
when did games get so shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWB8P4jbsAA
>>332619569
>says the guy that likes Twilight Princess
I hope the irony isn't lost on you.
MM = TP > OoT > SS = WW
>>332597147
I agree.
I didn't play SotC on ps2, I have it on ps3. I see what you're getting at, but desu, the open world has literally nothing to do but ride the horse and find new bosses, whereas TP's is considerably more vibrant and interactive, as well as the dungeons you have to go through to get to the bosses.
Wolf controls were great, I don't know what you're on about.
>>332559898
honestly i used to pretend to enjoy them
but i realise now that i've never finished a zelda game, because i was bored as fuck with every single one
i really do not think they are good games
the dungeons feel like hell
>>332597147
>TP blows Okami and SotC out the water
holy shit being this insane
>>332626512
>liking MM
Wow you have shit taste
>>332627150
>MUH DUNGEONS
Fuck off
>>332620728
>getting this mad over spin-offs
>>332626539
>whereas TP's is considerably more vibrant and interactive
did we play the same game?
TP's overworld was one of the more disappointing elements. Flat, green, and it had loading screens right in the middle of the fucking field. It gave me the impression that nobody gave a fuck when it came to shit that wasn't dungeons in TP.
And you can't honeslty claim that the wolf controls weren't a hot mess. They needed to include auto-attack and auto-platforming because of how shitty it all was.
>>332627256
Majora's Mask is backtracking: the game
>>332627371
Your post was autism: the complaint
>>332627352
Zelda's always had auto platforming. Walk to the edge and you'll jump off. Z target the hook and grapple without aiming. Z target and use the bow to hit automatically.
>>332627476
wolf platforming was different, it was literally controlled with QTEs
have you played TP recently?
>>332627568
Yes, I know there's the "press a to jump" thing with midna, but zelda has never focused on platforming. The closest it's gotten to real platforming was the Roc's feather in link's awakening. Midna giving you a leg up didn't ruin the game.
>>332627407
The sidequests were shit, which they tried to polish with the lover's mask mission
Only four dungeons which are clearly the weakest in the series
The final boss was easy with the fierce deity mask
The 3 day cycle was annoying and made exploration less enjoyable, not to mention the loss of ammo and rupees
Saving was a nightmare too
I can't believe people this this piece of shit game is better than oot, tp, ww and ss
>>332627740
if the wolf controls weren't garbage, they wouldn't need auto-attack and auto-platforming, its as simple as that
Okami was a fine example of how to do smooth wolf controls. It really spanked TP, and that's ignoring the visuals and the music and the worldbuilding in general.
How sad was it that nintendofags waited years for TP, only to be outdone on PS2
>>332557908
I'd rather take a spinoff game where its nothing but the werewolf furry bait Link from Twilight Princess for 50 hours than play Squidward Sword again.
>>332627824
>loss of ammo and rupees
Wait, you didn't put them in the bank? Ammo was piss easy to find, and they fixed it by finding large stacks instead of 2-3 arrows/bombs
>saving was a nightmare
No it wasn't, you just couldn't abuse it like in other games.
The fierce deity mask required a lot of work to get, and wasn't any easier than the endgame versions of other games (using the boomerang in LA 1 hit kills the final boss, bringing every bottle filled with blue potions basically negates Ganon in ocarina, especially if you just use light arrows to stun him endlessly)
>>332622926
Oracle of Ages/Seasons.
>>332628354
The maze-like overworld in Seasons killed exploration for me. Is Ages the same?
>>332628469
Its been a long time since I played but they're heavily linked, Ages is a little easier though.
>>332627824
>The sidequests were shit
This is falsebut you're absolutely correct that the more elaborately time dependent quests were largely gimmicky bullshit and greatly overrated in themselves. MM had some truly clever quests, which were more the ones that didn't waste your time, and the biggest boon of the time system was the NPC interaction, most of which lead to nothing that affected the gameplay.
I don't know if it's a good game or not because I can't get further in than a few hours. Fi is too grating and anyone saying previous games had handholding too is an idiot. It was nowhere near this level. Why the interruptions and puzzle solving for me? This is less of a game than the Sony moviegames are. I started the game three times in a soan of a few years, I want to give it a chance but the game is just too shit.
>>332628186
A good save system was skyward sword's, majoras was too sparse and relied on a song to get to one
>>332627352
>loading screens in the middle of the field
What? were you emulating like a nigerian?
Also the wolf was basically the same as Link to control. auto attack was a bit shit but the platforming, while weird is totally fine and much the same as any zelda, except a bit more long distance jumps.
>>332565860
Yeah, agreed.
Although I admit I didn't like the look of the areas on the ground as much as, say, Twilight Princess, in which I thought the scenery was wonderful. But really, my favorite scenery styles in many ways were those in OoT and MM; I like the dark/light marbled look that both of the N64 games have.
And I would have preferred some more interconnection of the ground areas. In fact, any interconnection...though I guess that doesn't really make a difference for the most part.
>>332574878
Kek.
I must be in bizzarro land.
Not only did I not hate Skyward Sword, I loved it.
The motion controls worked for me, and were fun.
The visual style was nice and the world was comfy
Had some great dungeons, and some parts were genuinely challenging
What the fuck are you guys complaining about? Just because it has some annoying hand-holding at times doesn't ruin the game. Fuck I hate the Zelda fanbase
I thought it consistently shit myself.
The fucking water dragon should've been executed.
the imprison'ds about to break out again but go swim about in the forest i flooded for reasons and do several things for me like pick up my dry cleaning.
>>332565860
This
It was still an enjoyable game
>>332635596
yeah the water dragon is one of the most useless fucks I ever seen. you help him out earlier on in the game then u go back for the song and he says you haven't proved ur self. which leads to the tadpole shit
FUCK U
i was already running out of patience with the game and then he pulls that shit on me
>>332635332
Literally this.
Zelda cycle is real
>>332563604
This. Fuck you guys, I liked it
>>332627824
>Only four dungeons which are clearly the weakest in the series
The stray fairies alone makes Majora's Mask dungeons more interesting than most dungeons in the series.
>>332637141
>oh goody a fetch quest
Please kill yourself, mm fags don't deserve to live
>>332637519
They're a collection quest. You can't just reduce everything that includes acquiring things, to be nothing but fetch quests.
Would you claim that Mario 64 is nothing but one huge fetch quest?
The fairies are hidden. And there are tips and tricks to locating, finding and catching them. It's a challenge. And complements the dungeons very well, actually making you explore the dungeons properly and uncovering more aspects of them that you would have likely missed or walked passed otherwise.
They're a great addition. Like ALBW's Maiamai, but even better since they're in dungeons.
>>332619831
Man, I don't see enough people mention how good the music was. That game really pulled off contextual music well, with all the little variations. I really hope this one sees some reuse down the road, because I never see people mention it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shibvkpyb8E
>>332619916
That's not really an excuse when every game's called "The Legend of Zelda" and does not in fact focus on the legend of Zelda nearly as much as Midna got pushed in TP.
In the final confrontation, Ganondorf only speaks directly with Midna and doesn't even mention Link except after like 3 minutes of talking, at the very end of it he says "you and your little friend". That is fucked up. Link is a third wheel with absolutely NO presence despite being the one who does everything.
>>332562114
>Nintendo
>Paying reviewers
Up until recently they were notorious for not giving them shit.
>>332557908
I think it will be even less liked in a decade than it already is, once Nintendo is no longer making money off the Wii's awful controllers no fanboys will defend them or the awful gimmick games that were made for them.
Regardless I think WW officially broke the idea of the cycle years ago. People had mixed opinions about it when it came out and they have mostly mixed opinions about it now. Virtually nothing has changed in the general perception of it over time. I'll also note that this seems to have never been true for the portable games, as the consensus on how good or bad they were at the start generally tends to hold over time.
Wow OP, nobody has expressed that thought before! The "Zelda cycle" isn't about any individuals changing their minds over time (though that might happen to a very tiny extent), it's about people who already like it not being able to discuss it freely because it's the current target for shitposting within the fanbase. When you can' t talk about the game you like without 15 people telling you to kill yourself you're not going to bother trying, but when Zelda U is out and everyone is bitching about whatever flaws it has, the guys that like Skyward Sword will be able to talk about it in relative peace.
>>332639031
>once Nintendo is no longer making money off the Wii's awful controllers
So several years ago?
Because no one uses the Wii Remote anymore, in any case most people tend to focus on the games WITHOUT the gimmicks or the ones that actually use them well when it comes to the Wii.
>>332638684
>That game really pulled off contextual music well, with all the little variations.
No it didn't, OoT still trumps everything in this regard, and precisely because of how tastefully and subtly it went about this.
>>332639243
The Wii U uses them for multi/wii functionality. I would never use that shit controller but I'm sure children enjoy it still.
>>332562092
>>332572367
>>332573218
>>332573707
