>Bored
>Decide to play HM1 for the first time in a year
>Blaze through severals levels, I don't even know you can spend more than two hours on the whole game if you're not against highscore
>Still fuck as fuck
>Decide to play HM2
>WINDOWS
>WINDOWS
>Get frustrated and quit
Point is, I've got every achievement besides one in each game, but in the long run HMM2 just isn't fun. And theses fuck still didn't officially release the level editor. Did someone play the beta? Was the level design preferred by the community more like HM1 or HM2.
>>332555667
eveyone likes HM1 more than 2 for the reasons you just listed.
Consensus on release was that there were too many windows in hm2. but a while after release, people seemed to either adjust or start liking it. not sure which one, cause i stopped after finishing once.
>>332555667
HM2 is better overall though.
>>332556349
What does it do better, besides arguably the soundtrack?
Meh gimmicks
Meh story
Meh level designs
Too long for its own good
Very late on schedule
>>332555667
>getting frustrated because of something both the enemies and you can take advantage of
I hate to meme but get good
Now if you complained about dogs teleporting through corners and doors you'd have a point
>>332555667
HM2's wide open levels were way to tedious to play. Getting killed off screen repeatedly really killed the pace of the game and forced you to constantly peek to your maximum vision range and rely on guns to pass certain points.
HM1's game play was far more fluid because stages were tighter and allowed way more options in approaching, so you didn't have to slow down and look out for random shit off screen.
>that level on the docks where enemies literally shoot you from outside screen borders
I got too fed up with HM2 at the third vietnam flashback, it just stopped being fun and fast because levels are too long anyway and you can't blaze through them hundred times in a minute trying new shit out.
>>332556653
better gunplay, melee weapons, characters, story and a level editor
Haha time for a HM thread!
>>332556653
More characters, better and new gameplay mechanics, better plot, harder stages, more stages.
>>332556653
The gimmicks were far better than HM1's though, they actually changed the gameplay significantly and require you to adjust to them
Overall i think people dislike HM2 because it forces the player to get out of their comfort zone and learn the levels
>>332557143
>>332557054
HM has plenty cases of "more" but not one of them is "better". Classical case of quantity over quality.
>>332557054
>better gunplay
Wrong, it's exactly the same
>melee weapons
All the same that in Hm1, but maybe you'll use them more now since the maps are so much bugger so you are often forced to bait out enemies if you wanna go melee mode.
Btw they took out the random weapon spawning than HM1 had in certain spots, and I think they took out fun weapons like boiling pans or bricks.
>characters, story
No, it was meh, there was no need at all to tell it ina non-linear way, making every character as able as Jacket just makes you wonder what others see in him because he's clearly nothing special, and the ending is a cop-out, whether it's meant to be that way or not.
Level editor isn't officially released so it doesn't count.
>>332556706
Most points of the games have windows on either side of your character or/and enemies too numerous to kill them all before their own bullets reach you, so you're forced to bait them out. Did anyone ever pulled off the Bear Fan's signature move in a window hallway? It just was impractical as fuck to me.
I also feel that the level design is not as clear as HM1 because I occasionnaly died to some guy I didn't see, while in HM1 the levels were jsut the right size so you could see the enemies and since most of them were dressed in white against mostly-colored background they stood out more.
>>332556349
nah, the story is too condensed, the soundtrack is equal, the gimmicks are boring and the level design is annoying.
it's an upgraded map pack nothing more
I've spent hundreds of hours playing Hotlime Miami, and about a hundred playing HM2. I can say without a doubt that HM2 is inferior to HM1 in terms of level design and game mechanics - the gun-centric gameplay, the melee executions slower than snails in molasses, and the increased AI reaction time leave little room for forgiveness or fun. Large, poorly laid-out levels laden with windows invite dependence upon guns, but also benefit enemies with supersonic reaction time. What fun there is is bogged down by baffling design decisions - see the Soldier - and bugs. It's an inferior game in an appealing package.
HM2 is just a bigger-budget HM1 in slow motion, without the perplexing open-ended narrative. The characters and music are memorable, but beyond that HM1 is superior.
If anyone tells you that HM2 is the better game, you're exempted from ever having to listen to their opinions again because they're objectively wrong. For example, the idiot in this thread saying that HM2 has "better" melee.
>Weapon executions are worthless, you will be killed mid-execution 75% of the time
>Random weapon spawns were removed, including in the editor
>Therefore, the ONLY melee weapons you will encounter regularly are
>Bat
>Pipe
>Chain
>Nightstick
The quantity of weapons in HM1 manages to outweigh that in HM2 because you're spending your time surrounded by those three weapons; which you won't even want to grab because guns are superior in every scenario - every single scenario.
HM2 suffers from an uncentralized gameplay and poor level design
more doesn't always mean better
the only good thing about it is the soundtrack
and goddamn it is good
>>332557021
literally gid gud
I have very slow reaction time and even I finished both games.
>>332557646
Nah man, HM2 has more and better content.
I mean come on, is that even debatable?
Play it and you will agree.
>>332558140
>nah, the story is too condensed, the soundtrack is equal, the gimmicks are boring and the level design is annoying.
Thats wrong though.
>>332558364
This.
>>332557329
You mean the gimmicks which weren't able to be used because they were available in levels designed for all of them? Death Wish is the only, the ONLY level which allows the player to properly use the Fans' gimmicks. The only reason they work is because the level is sectioned into character/gimmick-specific floors. You will never naturally roll with Corey outside of Death Wish, Tony is a sitting duck in a game full of guns, Mark has a practical ability that can be applied to a few levels and continues to be useful for the Son, and the Swans are just HM1 Tony but more overpowered.
I'd say almost every "mask" in Hotline 2 failed to work the way it could have, but that's as much an issue of trying to expand upon the mask system as it is of the masks.
>>332558364
I'm also salty about the lack of thrown weapons.
>>332555667
Yeah you couldn't go fullfrenzykillingspree in hm2 the game always stoped you with gun and windows
HM1 was challenging, but it was fun as fuck. Stealth stage aside, it flowed quite nicely.
HM2 made me angry. It was utter bullshit.
>>332558637
Nice argument. More is not always better, but if you can't wrap your head around as clear a case asHM/HM2 you're beyond helping.
They're completely different games mechanically and stylistically. Hotline is Drive, Hotline 2 is John Wick if half the action scenes ended with the protagonist dying inexplicably or because he tried to use melee.
>>332558364
>Weapon executions are worthless, you will be killed mid-execution 75% of the time
They're harder to pull off but they're not worthless, especially with weapons like the knife or the machete
>Random weapon spawns were removed, including in the editor
This is a bad thing why?
>Therefore, the ONLY melee weapons you will encounter regularly
Bullshit, the one you encounter the most is the knife and it's probably the best one in the game
>guns are superior in every scenario - every single scenario
Bullshit again, i almost only use guns to keep combos going and kill fatties, melee is useful because you don't attract patrolling enemies and keep them predictable
>>332559575
>This is a bad thing why?
Because it gave something for the players to look forward upon dying and it encouraged trying out new tactics
Seeing the difference between the two is simple. So simple, you can do it yourself this second if you have 1 and 2 installed.
Just try to complete Part 2 in Hotline Miami and Act 2 in Hotline Miami 2 purely with melee. No guns.
The difference is so obvious a child or a large bird could discern it.
>HM2 is literally a better and complete version of HM1
>they even included all the content that was supposed to be in HM1 too
>somehow some people will argue that fact
>>332555667
Once you get good, HM2 is so much better. It wasn't until I beat hard mode and then went back to S rank every stage that I realized how much better most of the levels are designed
>>332559156
>Death Wish is the only, the ONLY level which allows the player to properly use the Fans' gimmicks.
Only Corey and Mark have what i'd call a gimmick you can use "properly".
>You will never naturally roll with Corey outside of Death Wish
That's wrong though, it's extremely useful to get out of a room while avoiding gun fire.
>Tony is a sitting duck in a game full of guns
The Fans level aren't exactly open and full of guns though, i'd say the only part that feels really shitty for him is ironically the second half of his part on Death Wish.
>the Swans are just HM1 Tony but more overpowered
I think the much slower execution times and the fact that you have to keep track of two characters balance it. I agree they're generally more fun to play as though.
>>332559575
>This is a bad thing why?
Because "variety" is one of the determinants of score in Hotline Miami. Players are encourage by the score criteria and in-game tips to experiment, think and act quickly, and be creative. "Variety is rewarding," or something is literally an in-game tip in the first game. Hotline is at its core an arcade experience.
If you don't realize this you are blind to what Hotline Miami - the original - is all about.
>>332558007
>Did anyone ever pulled off the Bear Fan's signature move in a window hallway?
You mean besides the one in Death Wish? It's literally built for it, how the fuck do you fuck it up?
>>332560391
I beat Hard Mode and S Ranked every stages too.
The game is shit and you're a retard
>>332559974
>>332560562
Almost all melee functionned the same though, and sometimes the drops were straight up useless like the fucking darts or bottles and required you to stop to go get it, breaking the "flow" of the game people talk about so much. Never been a fan of rng based things myself though i can understand why people would like it, but definitely not why they'd consider it a flaw.
>>332560658
> enemies in both sides
> windows everywhere, obviously
> door hiding enemies from your gun if you aren't at the right hand
> 0.01 reaction time
> fat dude and another guy at the end of the hallway you have no way of seeing
It's a shit gimmick because it was always more reliable and simple to take out each square one after the other
>>332557112
>psychopathic idiot cop with serious issues is lawfull good
>Russian mobster ho kills a fuckton of people and would gladly kill civilians to get the bank vault open is chaotic good
>Guy who purposefully tried not to kill anyone and only incapacitate is Lawfull evil
>Mental hallucination of Lawfull good is somehow relevant despite it being less than 1 minute ingame.
Level editor is pretty good, you can make levels for Biker and Jacket, but they don't bring back enough weapons from HM1. The characters can only fight specific factions, except for one who can fight all of them.
>>332561029
>and sometimes the drops were straight up useless like the fucking darts or bottles
That's the fucking thing, it didn't break the flow, it changed it.
If the drop was constant. Say, a pipe, it wouldn't be the same thing. That's also why most random weapons spots in HM1 are located after your first or second gangster when you already have a weapon and you can choose to keep what you have or says "fuck it" and rush through the room throwing a dart into a gunman's eye
>>332560004
>First Trial
Evan level, literally made for melee
>Moving Up
Easiest level to beat as Tony
>No Mercy
I can give you that one even if it's doable
>Execution
Just beat it using only the Alex's chainsaw, though i did use the gun to attract enemies in the last floor
Not much different than how i played HM1
I liked some things about HM2 but:
>Doing Take Over on hard while trying to get an S-rank
That shit almost killed me in real life. It's a legitimately poorly designed level.
>>332561081
> enemies in both sides
> windows everywhere, obviously
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, that's made for Mark's gimmick
> door hiding enemies from your gun if you aren't at the right hand
What? The only doors are inbetween the enemies, they aren't hidden by anything
> 0.01 reaction time
Get gud, if you walk without stopping they won't have time to react
> fat dude and another guy at the end of the hallway you have no way of seeing
Straight up lying at this point, there's only one fat dude and he's in the last room to the far right
Don't blame the game if you're shit
>>332562070
>traight up lying at this point, there's only one fat dude and he's in the last room to the far right
I've played it in Hard Mode, casual scum
>>332561413
>it changed it
Delusional as fuck, the only thing it changed was the death sprites of enemies and the execution animations
The only time it changed anything was when it was guns, and even then they were mostly useless and the smgs worked pretty much the same as m16s
>throwing a dart into a gunman's eye
The darts do literally nothing though, doesn't even make the enemies flinch for a second
>>332563998
Oh right, the darts are only finishers, maybe I was thinking about the brick
>>332563998
Enemies bleed out from darts. They're useless though, along with scissors.
That said, I appreciated and still appreciate the variety. It's stupid to argue that the weapon variety is a huge feature, but the different executions are a nice change of pace from
>Bash with a bat
>Bash with a pipe
>Knife
The katana, sledgehammer, and axe are more satisfying to use even if they're only visually different.
I've found Wrong Number to be overall way more fun than 1.
muh windows
>>332565538
I'm fairly sure they don't bleed out from it, all it does is give you a bunch of points if you throw it at an enemy who has a gun
Also if we're talking about execution variety i feel like HM2 wins, even the unarmed executions vary between characters and they also get unique ones (all of Evan's, Martin's faster ones, Pardo with guns, the Son with the golf club/machete/knife/baton)
The chainsaw executions are also the most satisfying ones to me, the fireaxe in both games is a close second
I might be alone in this, but I found the levels in 2 to be better. I never felt like going back to the levels in 1 because they were too easy or boring, but I found the ones in Wrong Number to be more challenging and fun.
Recently replayed both.
1 is tight and full of fuck in a good way. I got all cheevos there.
2 is wide and full of fuck in a bad way. I am stuck at dead ahead first floor in mirror mode. It's just not fun having to shoot all the time while getting shot from nowhere.
>>332569317
>It's just not fun having to shoot all the time while getting shot from nowhere.
Use the covers to avoid the gunfire, then when you're at the far end of the screen, come out quickly and unload your ammo on one of them, then repeat. Also, stop playing hard mode.
>>332569317
>playing hard mode
>playing dead ahead on hard
Why would you do this to yourself?
The first floor is pretty easy though so you might be shit.
>>332569618
>come out quickly and unload your ammo on one of them
Yeah, that's what I try. But even if cursor is right above the enemy fucker still misses. Fucking Pardo. Also, why can't I lock on anymore? Just when one would need it.
>>332569793
I played through on regular mode and then went on to hard mode, naturally. But the first playthrought already was a chore. I think I might just abandon it.
Maybe one day I might return, should the level editor ever be finished.
By the way, do any proper editor levels exist yet? Fucked around with it a bit, but it wasn't really good and the given options are shit.
>>332569846
>making it that far in hard mode without realizing you can't lock on
>relying on lock on at all
>>332569846
Just replayed the first floor on Hard. Just hold left button at the guys hiding behind the crates until they die, and make sure the other gun mobs don't see you.
>>332570076
I never used lock on before, I think.... When did HM2 come out? Last year? I played it shortly after launch, and just recently took of where I left. Maybe I knew I couldn't lock on and just forgot. Dunno, don't care anymore. Fuck that shit. Just remembering what I still have ahead....
