A lot of classic games use this feature in an attempt to liven up JRPGs' turn- based nature, but I have never enjoyed an ATB system. Help me to enjoy this so that I can accept such classics as Chrono Trigger and FFVII and be less of a fucking hipster.
I would say play FFX-2 solely for its take on the ATB system, because each action and job has its own effect on the ATB meter after using them, resulting in a super dynamic ATB system.
It's why FFX-2 has the best combat in the series history.
Then again, this would just make it hard to play traditional ATB games.
>>332146049
I usually just turn the gauge off (if applicable) and set the battle speed to its fastest setting.
>>332146285
That gives players the lowest waiting time, but then enemies get more free hits on you while you're navigating the menu. It's a tradeoff.
>>332146569
I usually set it to Wait instead of Active, so enemies can't freely act while I'm busy with menus.
ATB is a shit system, there's no way around it. You either put it on the slowest to make it fair while dealing with drawn out battles or crank it all the way up and give the enemies an undue advantage. It's retarded.
>>332146225
>FFX-2 has the best combat in the series
Tired of this meme.
Turn based>ATB
Breath of fire 3 and 4 are the best jrpgs.
>>332146742
I never seemed to notice the Wait option having any effect on enemy behavior, but if it actually makes them wait, then that seems like a good way to handle battles.
>>332146902
I see ATB as a glorified turn based system anyway, but I really don't want to dismiss games that people won't shut up about just because they use it, meng.
This is the main reason I can't get into that indie game OFF
I don't know if you can really convince someone to like something. ATB is basically just there to make turns go by faster, and to force quick decisions if menu pause is off. If that kind of thing isn't for you, it's not for you. Depth of combat systems generally isn't why people like these games anyway.
>>332146049
ATB works for CT because of the dual and triple tech systems.
It allows you to manually wait for characters turns to sync up for the use of those techs instead of having to hit a "wait" command an indeterminate number of times for that event to happen.
>>332147063
OFF is press Auto to win, though
>>332147198
Phantasy Star 4 did it better without resorting to ATB
>>332146934
You have to be in a magic/item/skill/etc. menu or be in a targeting phase (ie. your cursor is pointing at an enemy/party member) for it to make things wait. The main menu (where Fight/Magic/Item/etc.) still keeps things active.
>>332146902
>manditory grinding
BoF will always be a suck series
>>332147671
>two hours total spread across 5 games
>doesn't even appear in the two mentioned
Stop being so bad at an easy genre.
>>332147276
I only realized that Phantasy Star 4 had combination spells after playing half of the game, and even then I only discovered about 2 combinations by myself.
Kinda like Suikoden.
>>332146049
Chrono trigger actually makes a half assed attemp to justify it's ATB by giving a portion of enemies gimmicks that don't work in TBS, FF always had a shitty ATB system
>>332146049
ATB was developed when it was common to plan out your entire party's turn all at once(see: SaGa, DQ, FFI-III). There's nothing particularly wrong with it other than the fact that most ATB games are extremely easy and aren't built around what it allows - under a theoretical perfect ATB game, ATB allows you to plan your turn out in the exact order you want, allows you to reserve actions to respond to enemies taking theirs by waiting, allows for speed to matter beyond deciding who goes first by giving high speed characters extra actions over time without an obvious breakpoint after which it stops being useful,
The problem is that only FFIV, FFV, and certain difficulty hacks for FFVI approach the level of difficulty to draw those aspects of the game out and neither of those games have FFVI+'s system where you could choose another character with a filled action bar without forcing the first character to take an action.
Press Turn or CTB are strictly better, though.
>>332147947
Those gimmicks were done in FFIV and V first.
>>332148118
>There's nothing particularly wrong with it
It gives enemies an unfair advantage at higher speeds.
>>332148214
Enemies moving around the screen and techs hitting an area around those enemies were done in FFIV and V?
>>332148282
The games are balanced around using the fastest battle speed available, you're actually nerfing the game by not playing at the highest speed.
>>332147276
And Phantasy Star 4 does a round based system were everyone gets 1 action within each round.
CT doesn't do this, very fast characters can attack multiple times before other characters get any actions at all.
>>332148423
That has literally nothing to do with ATB and has been done in strict turn based games like WA3 before.
>>332148474
If that was true, then the default speed would also be the fastest. That's never the case.
>>332148578
>If that was true
Go play FFIV, it will become incredibly obvious how true this is.
>>332148578
Not particularly. Not everyone playing a game will know or care if a game is balanced around the top speed. Most people would reasonably think that the default speed should be the average speed.
>>332148678
I'm not going to play anything because your reasoning doesn't make any sense.
>>332146049
The average JRPG player doesn't give a shit about the tactical depth in the gameplay. In fact, games that involve any sort of thinking are criticized. The ATB system is pure garbage to people who care about JRPG gameplay, but to the larger masses it is good because it makes them feel like battles are more fast-paced and engaging or something.
Basically, it's just not for you.
It makes the game harder.
You better hurry up with that fucking tonic or else your shits going to get kicked in
>>332148570
>like WA3 before.
>Wild Arms 3
>Before Chrono Trigger.
There are probably some Turn Based SRPGs that do that and predate the ATB games in question, but I can't name them because I'm not well versed in old SRPGs.
The problem with atb is that you're still not in full control of your characters, hit and dodge are still up to rng, except this time enemies can wack you while you're trying to use a potion.
>>332148570
Of course it have to do with ATB, waiting the enemies line up instead of attacking immediately is something that you can only do with ATB.
>>332149142
That's what i like about Super Mario RPG, you can cover yourself by pressing a button, and augment your attack power by pressing a button on the landing hit
>>332149172
ATB isn't necessary for that.
>>332149142
I think this is my fucking problem actually. Great job, anon. The fact of the matter is that ATB is a hybrid of turn based and live and that it doesn't have all of the benefits of either. It misses the comfy of thinking about strategies between turns, and it misses the catharsis of full character control. Neato.
>>332149142
>The problem with atb is that you're still not in full control of your characters, hit and dodge are still up to rng
If you think that's a problem, then I don't think you know what an RPG is.Your character's abilities decide if they hit or dodge, if it was decided on your controlling jockeying, then it would be an Action game.
I guess potentially falling under the hybrid genre of ARPG mattering on other mechanics
>>332149089
I didn't mean "before Chrono Trigger".
Press turn system is what all jrpgs should have.
It's tedious and gives the enemy a huge advantage. Better way to deal with it is who has the most speed. Certain actions and abilities will determine who moves next, I think FF10 had something like that. Wasn't ATB but it wasn't like most other JRPGs where your team moves and then the enemy.
Honestly I'm fine with either, but ATB can suck my avocado seed-sized balls
>>332149541
Too easy to abuse and puts a huge emphasis on resistances/weaknesses.
It's good, but not every JRPG should have it.
I like to pretend that FFXIV's GCD system is a active ATB combat system with a twist.
>>332149538
Then why bring it up?
>>332149737
Why don't you think about it?
>>332148949
It's a JRPG anon, it's about the story rather than tacticool shit.
>>332149918
That's complete bullshit.
>>332146049
ATB is still better than RTwP.
>>332149596
Yeah, basically a FFXesque turn order system on a combat field that allows move commands and AoE attacks would be perfect.
>>332149650
>puts a huge emphasis on resistances/weaknesses.
Isn't that the whole point of why magic exists in JRPGs?
>>332149918
>I started playing JRPGs with FFVI and can't understand that there's a difference between games like it and older JRPGs
I fucking hate people like you so much, you have no idea.
>>332146049
I hate ATB. I literally either panic and end up mashing the attack button or I end up hiding in the magic menu because I'm paranoid the enemy is getting free hits on me.
>>332149974
>>332149974
That's not even fit to be considered an accomplishment.
>>332150029
No.
>>332150029
No. DQ still doesn't really do that.
>>332149918
>Tacticool
I just remembered this game was awesome. I think it controlled like Valkyria Chronicles, but without the OP bullshit of Alicia. No RPG elements though, I wish there was a tactical shooter/RPG mix
>>332150029
I always felt that magic was about opportunity cost and resource management
You get a limited amount of spell casts, do you use them on buffs/debuffs to potentially turn a difficult situation into an easy one (if they work), do you use your nukes and try to finish the fight quickly? do you save it all for healing and play an attrition match?
And then you have to make sure those magic resources last till the end of the section you're in so you can restore them.
The system basically always breaks down though because the restorative items are generally made so abundant that you have practically infinite of them in most RPGs
>>332149596
>gives the enemy a huge advantage
Why people keep saying this? Have you played a single ATB game?
Do you know that when you open any magic or item menu the battle stops until you take an action?
You have absolute control of the flowing of the battle, enemies won't attack you faster than you can decide your next move, there's no such a thing as enemy advantage.
>>332150345
Well...
>>332150404
We don't know that opening any magic or item menu stops the battle. The games never told us.
I always thought ATB was just a gauge that filled up, and when it filled up it signaled that the character's turn has come up. Considering how the older FFs could essentially become guessing games with who goes first, who goes last, this seemed like a reasonable workaround. Cause the boss used his team affecting attack AFTER you wasted your Cure4 on eveyone, and when you do try it again, everyone is in critical health and gets knocked out the third time.
>>332150481
>>332150481
Then PAY FUCKING ATTENTION HOLY DICKS
>>332150481
It's not that hard to notice the enemies won't start new attacks while you are trying to find that one spell or item to use. I'm also sure it's written somewhere in the games
>>332150404
Trap Doors in FFIV will always get their instant kill off at the highest speed. Lowering it even a little bit will let the same exact party get a reflect off before it can act twice.
Enemies in general get free turns.
>>332150426
Oh shit, forgot this series existed. I've always wanted to play them but eventually I'll get around to tormenting them or GOG, whichever is faster.
>>332150720
This is the only game with ATB that actually does this.
>>332150720
"Take your time to choose items and fight strategically" may translate to "time stops in the item menu" in hindsight, but that's not particularly clear for new players.
>>332150880
JA1 and Deadly Games are good but JA2 is literally the best game in its genre.
>>332150052
Name 10 JRPGs with outstanding gameplay.
I'll wait.
>>332150880
>Oh shit, forgot this series existed. I've always wanted to play them
JA2 is the only one really worth playing. But it should be played over and over and fucking over again, it's that good.
>>332150908
Every SNES and PS1 FF has it
>>332150908
no its not, 99% of games with ATB have an active or wait option
>>332150795
>Enemies in general get free turns.
This isn't a problem, you're just seeing it as an unfair advantage instead of giving the enemies the ability to fight back against you.
>>332146049
sorry that you're too dumb to think fast, brainlet
>turn based battle systems
is there anything more autistic? i get that 30 years ago there was limits because of hardware, but give it up already japan. its time to move on.
>>332151224
>is there anything more autistic?
You.
>>332151132
>>332151135
Post another screenshot that gives you the option between the two and tries to explain the difference before the game even starts.
Go on, I'll wait.
I don't care for ATB either. If you're going to be turn based, be turn based. I don't want to wait for a turn, especially in a game where I can't even move around while waiting.
>>332150880
>Tormenting
Anon please, these games have done nothing wrong!
>>332151151
>artificial difficulty isn't a problem
Fuck off. If the developers wanted these enemies to be fast, they would have given them a higher speed stat.
>>332151515
That's not artificial difficulty you fucking moron.
>>332151602
>Cloud easily goes first when fighting Shinra grunts
>maxing the battle speed allows the same enemies to get multiple turns
Yes it is.
>>332151224
>Getting upset about preferences of others
I don't like gay people but they can always suck my cock when they need to shut up.
Hurry up, anon. It ain't gonna suck itself.
>>332151224
depends on what kind of turn based it is. if it's old style with everything static and the battle is just selecting actions in menus then it is indeed kinda outdated, but if it's the sort you have in tactics games such as FFt, tactics ogre, etc.. that resemble more a game of chess and have more elements to it then i'd say not only that i like it, but that i wish more was done with it and more games used it.
>>332146049
It's supposed to make you think on your toes and act quickly, but not many games with it take advantage of it. It's a cool idea, but no one really uses it in a way that'd make a game harder.
this argument is cute, about games that I actually played as a child
the ATB was just something you turned off and ignored, quit kidding yourself that video games are difficult, or that your success matters, or that there is a right way to play a game
BTW the game that had the most fucked up ATB was seiken 3. When you were in the menu picking your next attack, the boss was 'casting' which meant they always dropped spells on you after you picked your own spell, it made magic close to useless
>>332151724
>my reaction time is 2.5 seconds
>>332146049
Compared to turn-based/srpg or compared to fully active arpg?
ATB is a middle-ground. Less pressure but still time-sensitive.
>>332151724
>using FF7 as an argument for anything ever
You can sleepwalk through that game, why does this matter.
>>332152129
It has nothing to do with that. You can hold down circle and it'll still happen. The game makes the enemies faster than their stats suggest. Therefore, it's artificial difficulty.
>>332152437
That's not what artificial difficulty means you fucking retard.
>>332152520
If you can't refute my argument, then just shut up.
>>332153141
You can start by having an argument in the first place.
>>332153196
>replying in less than 40 seconds
Holy shit you're mad.
>>332149541
It's unfairly skewed towards the player.
>Game has ATB system
>Boss has huge damage all-party attack
>Lol hurr durr better heal quickly!
I wouldn't say that ATB is bad automatically, but it prompts shitty design like this to prop up.
>>332155620
How is that different from any other game where a boss has a huge damage all party attack.
>>332155990
Other games don't let your dedicated healer sit around doing nothing while being ready to heal the moment healing is needed. A fast boss could easily outpace your healer and wreck your shit.
>>332156125
It's not like it's without cost.
If you just leave one character at the ready all the time then you're skipping potential turns to do that.
Instead of just waiting of the perfect moment to party heal, you could have been applying buffs or helping with damage output.
>>332156125
How is that a bad thing though? If anything, it just adds more to the game because inputting an action isn't always the best option.
>>332156330
Dedicated healers typically can't do anything else well, and buffs are almost universally worthless in games with ATB.
>>332156418
It drastically lowers the difficulty of a boss that would actually be dangerous in another system and takes away from resource management.
>>332157771
>and buffs are almost universally worthless in games with ATB.
Not in FFIV, FFV, or CT they aren't.
>>332158382
Buffs are trash in all but one version of FFIV.
Don't know or care enough about FFV, but I don't remember using them.
Does CT have any buffs other than stupid shit like Haste and Protect?
>>332158556
>I don't know anything about any of games hurf durf
marketing gimmick, everyone just held down attack and grinded anyway : ^)
>>332158587
You can easily beat all three without casting buffs once. If that's not worthless, then what is?
>>332158801
Are you retarded?
>>332159119
Answer my question.
>>332159572
You can beat a lot of games without using the best options but that doesn't make them worthless you absolute fucking moron.
>>332159890
If you aren't required to use them at some point, they might as well not be there at all and are essentially worthless.
>>332160026
Why the fuck are you even playing RPGs?
>>332160386
For fun and nostalgia, but that has nothing to do with the fact that buffs are almost universally worthless in ATB games.
>>332160504
Except they're not, you just have the most fucking retarded concept of what makes an option worthless ever.
>>332160663
If they're not worthless, how can anyone easily beat those games without ever touching them? Why cast a buff when there's almost always a better option?
>>332160839
>I can beat Wizardry without using a certain class, that makes it worthless!
Full fucking retard.
>>332160026
To not be retarded? Multiple options encourage multiple strategies. Which creates replay-ability.
I can't understand people who hate on ATB systems. It's just turn based combat with a bit of urgency sprinkled on top.
They are fine.
>>332160971
Strawman. Classes in wizardry do several things.
>>332160992
Games that use ATB are incredibly linear and give practically zero reason to replay unless you really like it.
I like how no one has pointed out a single situation where you'd rather cast a buff instead of something else. Pretty damning.
>>332146883
>Tired of this meme.
it's objectively correct
>>332161186
Literally any boss in FF8. Aura buff is game breaking.
Do you even play video games? Or just shitpost?
>>332161186
>I like how no one has pointed out a single situation where you'd rather cast a buff instead of something else.
Blink on characters when you're fighting Behemoths to avoid the counterattacks and waste far less MP than you would having to heal up.
Haste anytime, it doubles your action output.
Any buffing mix in FFV, several of these are outright the most powerful options in FFV
Any buffing song in FFV.
>>332161186
>Strawman.
No, the logic applies to both. You can't have it both ways.
>>332161328
Why would you waste a turn casting Aura when you can go into the fight with low HP and get the same effect, but faster?
>>332161437
You're an idiot if you're actually suggesting to cast Haste during random battles.
>>332161508
Wrong. I'm saying this specific set of spells are worthless. There are equally worthless spells in Wizardry.
>>332150347
I love RPGs with very limited revival/full restore item abundance. I like the expectations and also really like the reset mechanic a lot of JRPGs have adopted in the past ten years.
>>332161670
>the reset mechanic a lot of JRPGs have adopted in the past ten years
The what?
>>332161640
>There are equally worthless spells in Wizardry.
Confirmed for never playing Wizardry.
>>332146049
The potential of containing the strategic mechanics of a turn based combat system with the added pressure of a timer is entertaining to some.
If it's not for you, oh well.
>>332150795
Totally normal for enemies to take more actions than you can in a round. It's a designed aspect of difficulty.
>>332161640
Because every boss after the first disk spams an AOE or DoT?
Different examples: Hammerhorn in Monster hunter is hella good in team play. Paladins in WoW. Dancers in Etrian, Fire Emblem. Disgaea clerics.
>>332161894
Doesn't matter when you're spamming overpowered limits like Duel and can end every single boss fight in one turn.
>>332161765
Like, being able to retry a difficult fight after a death? I think it's a way of cutting out resource management so individual combat instances can be more difficult. Usually paired with healing after battles/abundant free heal locations.
not all turn based but definitely jrpgs
>KH
>xenoblades
>some tales of games
>i think radiant historia
>twewy
>>332161979
That doesn't happen unless you're abusing/breaking GF and Junction. In which case you're already ignoring half the mechanics in the fucking game. Which by your definition would make them useless.
>>332162118
FFVIII is loaded with useless shit.
>>332146049
Don't bother. ATB is shit inherently. The only games that made it enjoyable were Grandia.
>>332161979
Except you don't need to use Duel to beat the game either so that's useless shit too by your logic.
>>332151224
There have been action RPGs for 30 years you fucking retard. People use turn-based because action RPGs are always more action than RPG or they're shit.
>>332162376
Limits like Duel and Renzokuken are just the most effective way to attack, and you have to attack to beat the game.
ATB itself isn't the problem. In the past they were really limited with what they could code up so fort the most part, rpg's defaulted to ATB.
The problem is that it's more than 30 years later & they've hardly built on it. See: Grandia series
>>332146225
You
I like you
>>332150069
Set option to wait
ATB speed to fastest
Your getting as much time to pick your move as possible with no cheap hits
And minimising the wait time between moves
>>332162517
ATB is pretty bad. Everything you could do with it you could do with a system like FFX's which gives the player proper knowledge to plan ahead while also eliminating any chance of the player having to wait for the game.
>>332163024
You still get cheap hits. The meters still go up while you're on the outer menu. They only freeze when you click on an option. Meaning that during the 82 frames or so that you click down twice to pick the spells option, that's 82 frames of attack that your enemies just queued up on you for free.
>>332163024
>no cheap hits
Wrong.
>>332161640
FF8 was a grindless RPG
For those without over leveling
Aura buff with full health is better than walking Into a boss battle with 10% hp
Also nobody casts haste in random battles, but casting Bull Rush in them is acceptable. Haste + Berserk for full party really shortens random encounters to momentary pauses in world map
There are worthless spells in every game
Most status effects/debuffs have shit accu.
Tiet1 spells as soon as you find a tier 2 which becomes obsolete as soon as you find a tier 3 magic which becomes obsolete with tier 4 magics
>>332164032
>Aura buff with full health is better than walking Into a boss battle with 10% hp
Not when your maximum HP is 8000 and you're fighting a level 10 enemy.
>Also nobody casts haste in random battles, but casting Bull Rush in them is acceptable. Haste + Berserk for full party really shortens random encounters to momentary pauses in world map
Enc-None exists.
Have you even played this game?
>>332163112
Oh, I just realized that FFX doesn't count as ATB.
Yeah, in the end ATB is just a system to represent who is going to have the next turn, FFX's system is easily the ideal way to do it, though might complicate matters if implemented in games like Grandia.
To be clear, even if all JRPG's used FFX's TBS, the problem at hand wouldn't change; there'd still be a lack of innovation in how combat is handled.
>>332163148
82 frames is more than 1.2 seconds
Try using Zells limit break with that kind of reaction time.
You should find your reaction time is closer to 0.04 - 0.16 seconds
And that's hitting two buttons instead of just one
closer to 1-3 frames than 82
If that isn't enough, most games have an auto attack you can hold to initiate at exact frame, then cancel the attack at target selection to choose you moves
>>332163330
Actually, right.
>>332164561
>most games have an auto attack you can hold to initiate at exact frame, then cancel the attack at target selection to choose you moves
This is so wrong it's not even funny.
ATB is pretty shit, it only exists because of system limitations. They wanted something that was more "exciting" than pure turn-based. With the advent of action RPGs, ATB has become obsolete.
>>332164921
Action RPGs existed before JRPGs did.
>>332164183
If your lvl 10
Enemies will be lvl 10
When you hit 40 enemies are level 40
When your at lvl 100 enemies are at... Guess what? Lvl 100
Unless you start your game with full stock of Full Life to junction to HP using the GF you haven't trained enough to learn it your not even hitting 1k by the time your lvl 10
Remember, you start game lvl 6 with 300-400 hp
Enc-None is a late game ability Bull Rush you get in first disc
Also makes it easier to LEARN Enc-None by trivialising cactuar fights
So uh, same question, did YOU play the game?
>>332164771
Not seeing any evidence to the contrary, Mr Straw man.
>>332165229
>he didn't fight Diablos in the first disc
>he didn't use card mod
Not that guy but I also question whether you've actually played the game.
>>332165229
>Enc-None is a late game ability
130 AP is nothing.
You don't know shit about these games, especially if you think anyone in their right mind is going to come anywhere close to the level cap.
>>332165314
Try playing the games.
>>332165314
>Mr Straw man.
I don't think you know what that means.
>>332146049
I find setting the battle system to active and the speed to the highest value to be really fun sometimes
makes for some intense boss battles
it's kinda like the difference between regular chess and timed chess, but it's not for everyone
if you don't like it, don't force yourself
ATB IS turn based, with time constraint
So what's wrong with ATB again? You can even set it to "wait" to emulate the classical turn based
>>332165761
Enemies get more turns than they should.
>>332165815
This is more to the game design and not the system itself
DQ for example uses classical turn based but the final boss (or some mid boss) almost always move twice in a turn
>>332165915
False. They only get more turns at higher settings.
>>332146049
>I have never enjoyed an ATB system.
So what? We aren't your servants or anything you sak of shit. I'l shit in your open mouth before wasting a second of my life validating your desire to become a fake gamer.
>>332149998
you described trails of cold steel
>>332161807
There are tons of worthless spells in Wizardry, stop kidding yourself
>>332146049
>Help me to enjoy this so that I can accept such classics as Chrono Trigger and FFVII
Isn't ATB togglable in both of those games though and playable with the standard everything stops when it's you're turn though?
>>332166046
Read the thread.
>>332165957
If we're talking Dragon Quest, bosses starting with Dhoulmagus in 8 get multiple turns.
>>332166046
Fuck off
>>332165409
So your gonna spend an entire +20 hours playing triple triad gathering cards to create a stock of life spells, only to have to train up siren to make them full life's
Or convert your face card for 3 full life
regardless that's still around 400 games cause the monster required doesn't appear till later so card ability is moot till then
Good for t-rexaur into cards into quake though
>>332165530
Doesn't change the fact you require Doomtrain (iirc) to get enc-none
Much later than first disc where you get Bullrush from Ifrit
Late enough that you can visit islands closest to hell/heaven to get that 130ap
So uh, next?
>>332151727
>faggot sucking a straight guyt-that's my fetish
>>332166101
That has absolutely nothing to do with the argument. Stop acting retarded.
>>332166242
Diablos has Enc-None, and you get him right after Dollet.
>>332165705
Not that guy, but he DID just basicly say Nuh-uh without giving any reasoning behind it
>>332165530
>if you think anyone in their right mind is going to come anywhere close to the level cap
Most of the people I know who played it did. When I tell them about doing low level runs they always act like the concept is weird.
>>332166371
>That has absolutely nothing to do with the argument. Stop acting retarded.
Stop being wrong about things.
>>332166415
That's not what a straw man is, though.
>>332166421
A normal run of FFVIII is lucky to even hit level 60. You'd have to mindlessly grind for no reason to get close to 100.
>>332166553
>You'd have to mindlessly grind for no reason to get close to 100.
Yes, and?
>>332166665
Only retards are going to do it, and it's no way to measure the typical experience.
>>332166371
Thanks for the reminder, but you'd still need to go through the 120ap for enc-half to unlock the 130 enc-none
Whereas Bullrush is still 80ap as soon ad you get ifrit. You'll have bullrush more than three times over by the time you get the antique lamp
>>332166727
If you say so.
>>332166751
You're a fucking moron. Enc-Half is 30. Enc-None is 100.
Stop pretending you know shit about these games, especially when all you have to do is google to find out how wrong you are.
>>332146049
If you're not a brain dead retard, ATB is fine and you'll be giving inputs to your characters before the next ones turn anyway. Also, there are several enemies in FF7 that require waiting before you use attacks so that you won't be countered. Then there are things like chocobos that will run after time unless you feed them greens.
ATB adds a layer of difficulty and unless you're a turbo aut that has never played a video game before, It won't be a detriment to you.
>>332166967
>ATB adds a layer of difficulty
>>33216672
Actually first time playing it back in '98 racing through the game against friends before game FAQs ruined everything
It took two days of searching the great salt lake to find esthar
Most of us hit lvl100 right there from the stupid high amount of exp visages give
A TV with literal knobs to change channel is not the best to see that slight static effect at entrance
>>332166865
>iirc - going by memory of a game that hasn't been played in a years
>having to Google everything cause you haven't played the game
>"stop pretending you know stuff"
This is as logical an argument as a historian telling a vet what happened during world war 2
>>332167580
You act like there'd be something wrong with that. A WW2 historian is going to know an ass load more than a fucking grunt.
Nevermind the fact that he's a retard taking info at face value and pulling numbers out of his ass.
>>332167724
I'd love to see a historian explain what its like in the trenches in more detail than someone who was actually there
Second hand information is never as important as first hand experience
And regardless of not having every minute scrap of data perfectly engraved, having a sense of story progression and knowing when one obtains certain items in lieu of others is more important than exact figures given by a source easily alterable at any time
Reading how to play the game vs actually playing the game
>>332168268
>being in the trenches is the only thing that happened in WW2
>hundreds of first hand accounts vs. one
You are retarded, for multiple reasons.
>>332166778
He's right though. Unless you're a kid who only gets 1 or two games a year than there is literally no reason to do it.
>>332146049
don't tell /v/ i said this but here's the truth
it's very, veryfun
