How does /v/ feel about the Spring Cleaning changes?
>>332044540
I saw something about updates and been interested in DOTA for a while.. what's a good hero to start with? who should I buy first?
muh skill ceiling
>>332044540
they highlight how insane it is to actually keep track of shit like spawn zones and tower range
The tower range thing is pretty shocking, considering even LoL (which dota players usually consider the little tykes version of dota) considers that giving away too much information and only enables it in practice games.
I feel like if they're going to let you check tower targets that might as well just be a constant effect like in LoL and not something you need to enable with alt or clicking the tower, because it's information you're literally always going to want to see when you're at a tower.
>>332044760
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not trolling, you don't have to unlock characters in this game.
And start with lich, it's basically impossible to play him and not be helping out.
>>332044760
Wraith king carry, lich support, sven carry, juggernaut carry, vengeful spirit support, death prophet mid, slark carry, zues mid, read through them and you can find more those are pretty easy in my opinion
When will they make it so mousing over the attack/defense of a unit other than your own hero displays the more detailed information?
I like it. It should only be for normals though, not ranked.
>>332045046
I see it more as a way to make the game more accessible, there's an option to turn off tower range identification, isn't there?
>>332044760
>who should I buy first?
>>332044540
>drawing the spawn zones for camps
Holy fuck about 10 years late but finally.
Those are ugly looking but whatever.
>>332045046
>>332045096
not trolling. Just been too intimidated to play the game but it looks fun.
>>332044760
hey anon you should play with us
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Jormun/
>>332045885
if this is your first moba, don't be discouraged if you don't really understand anything. The /vg/ channel ingame is relatively helpful, there are some people there that don't mind playing non-serious games too if you just want to learn how to play and want to play with /v/
I don't know how much has changed, but I got my first ever rampage after the change so I guess it's good.
>>332044540
>Stopped playing for like a year
>They killed the magic bush
>>332046359
The map changes killed it.
WHERE THE FUCK IS PITLORD
>>332044760
>buy
all heroes automatically unlocked
>I want to eventually learn how to play the game well
no joke, just play normal matchmaking and random a hero every single match until you understand the basics
>I want to be decent, short term
pick a strong, ez hero and stick with him/her. Dota forces you to play a few matches of limited hero pool before you can actually play normal games with the rest of the players; I highly suggest choosing a hero from this pool, almost all of them have very flat learning curves and can be completely understood in a few matches.
>>332046359
my MMR jumped too high for that, the bush became useless to me a long time ago
>>332044540
Maybe it's a "burden of knowledge" thing and elitism, but I kinda fucking hate that theyve added tower indicators, spawnbox lines, and even the skillshot lines for blinkdagger and stuff a while back.
I hate it because I actually invested time into learning each of those things. Like just the other day, prior to the update being announced, I was dicking around in a custom map designed purely for learning the spawn boxes. These types of things separated average players from great players, in my opinion.people will still just drop wards in the middle of camps anyway
>>332046518
Dude after seeing how techies ruined matchmaking for like 6 months straight I don't even know if I want pit lord now.
Like do we really want to do with entire teams and creepwaves teleporting into the base?
Quickbuy still doesn't fucking acknowledge the existence of alternate power treads builds.
>>332046726
>deal with*
>Think about reinstalling it again
>It's 15 GB already
It's a fucking WC3 map. It should be 300mb max. I understand it keeps increasing because of the ever increasing number of cosmetics, but maybe I don't want that shit. i wish it was optional, and you could install a clean, light, cosmeticless version with just the game and nothing else.
>>332046632
If all that separates good from great is rote knowledge then there isn't that high of a skill ceiling.
>>332046769
this bothers me too. I also dislike how you can't sort quickbuy. Like when you're buying SnY, you might want ogre club before blade
neutral spawn indicator is ok, but showing tower attack range is just retarded.
>>332046726
They probably haven't released him because they haven't figured out how to make his ulti work
>In a pro match it'd be perfect for pushing people back from your racks
>In any other level of play the guy on Pit Lord would probably be some Slav scared of dying who pops it when everyone else is farming or laning
>>332046726
>hating techies
>>332046832
i didn't say that was the ONLY thing. I said these types of things. and on the topic of knowledge making you better, there are a LOT of things to be learned in dota. I mean minute shit like what each level's cooldown on shallow grave is.
>>332047020
>liking each game to take an extra 30 minutes and getting the exact same result
>>332046726
>techies nerfed
>naga still in the game
>arc warden released
I just don't understand.
At least techies was fun.
>>332046796
I feel this way about tf2, which btw has reached 17gb according to steam
>>332047023
They show things like that if you hover over the skills, though.
>>332047105
>Went to TI4 and 5 in-person
>That feel when watched those matches where Aui got to play Techies in-person
>>332047178
how deep in the trench are you when you think naga is a problem?
>>332047178
This
How can anyone fucking hate techies and want them to be nerfed to death when heroes like spectre and invoker exist
why does invoker get a free short cooldown ravage at level 24?
Nice, now I don't have to remember that shit.
Good thing I never put in the effort to in the first place.
>>332047178
I'm not even sure techies was nerfed that hard. i think people just stopped playing him because hype wore off
i see a naga maybe 1 in 100 games, and its ALWAYS annoying, but its so rare that it doesnt bother me
i have yet to see an arc warden win a match, seriously. never seen it.
>>332047214
no fucking shit sherlock, I mean off the top of your head. as in when dazzle is on the enemy team and you cant just do that in the middle of a teamfight. knowing that kinda shit can be helpful because maybe you KNOW dazzle cant shallow grave so you press for a kill during a chase or something. or inversely you know when its back up and you should stop trying for the kill
>>332047397
>mine damage fucking halved
>can now just quelling any mine you see in lane
>enemy sentries pay for themselves
He's the worst hero in the game right now.
>>332047346
because a techies on your team is just as annoying as on the enemy team. at least when invoker and spec are on your team you feel like you might have an advantage
>It's an Arc Warden episode
I fucking hate this cunt
>>332047397
The techies nerf is not really one it actually really stengthen your late game to have infinite mines, and while the individuals dont hit as hard, with the reduced cd it's about the same.
The true nerf was giving them value , so now even trench support will buy sentry for it. Oh and Quelling demining
Who's /v/'s favorite team?
Pic related for me, I have high hopes for them making it to TI
>>332047498
didnt they change the cooldown on landmines to compensate though?
I didnt know quelling blade worked, thats sort of semi significant i guess for melee characters.
the gold thing is helpful, but i wouldnt call that a nerf. that's just making it less ridiculously unfun to play against. iirc mines didnt give that much gold, but i guess if you find a large stack with one sentry then yeah its pretty significant
>>332045953
>http://steamcommunity.com/id/Jormun/
avoid
>>332047498
>mine damage fucking halved
And so is Cd and mana cost.
The only difference is that you do not dominate a lane vs melee as much. No more insta 300 dmg on whoever dare tryign to hit creeps in melee range.
>>332046726
Pitlord is going to get another rework anyways. His aura is whatever, his pushing was nerfed, pit of malice has a tiny AOE and Dark Rift is kinda whatever now because of Upgrade BOTS and Wisp and other shit added to the game after Pitlord.
Also he had serious mana issues.
>>332047498
They made the mines do less damage, less mana cost, and removed the 20 mine limit
He still sucks ass
>>332047508
He is really fun to play once you figure out how you want to micro all his stuff, I typically get Midas/BoTs/Manta/Necro and then w/e damage items I want likeDivine Rapier
>>332047664
oh really? any idea what theyre changing it to?
I really like the theme and look of the character, and everything except his teleport looked pretty nifty. I imagine he'd fill a role similar to what tusk does now, but I'm not sure because I didn't get to play much dota1
>>332047508
>It's a Nature's Prophet episode
Either selfish and useless on your team, or a filthy rat on the other
![Phantom_Assassin[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/9ddkmLz.png "Phantom_Assassin[1].png")
did they nerf this bitch yet?
Phoenix is prettycool
>>332047837
she's been considered bad for a long time now. I'm not entirely sure why. I think maybe its just that blinkstrike doesnt go through bkb
>>332047894
Crystal Maiden is prettyhot.
>>332047912
Only one person still plays her
>there's a lesh on the other team
>>332047846
>>332047984
I like her Arcana. I'm half tempted to sell my CS:GO AK skin for it
>>332047837
there ya go, best argument against PA: >>332048014
>mfw useing tusk aghs on the enemy carry
>>332047789
Its not confirmed or hinted, its just what I expect. He hasn't been touched by a balance patch in 4 years, because he is the last ollld Dota hero and even in that patch 4 years ago he got a spell reverted to a pre-nerf state AND Corpse Explosion was replace with his aura. So 4 years later without getting touched, he probably just needs a rework again.
>>332046538
>just play normal matchmaking and random a hero every single match until you understand the basics
Play bot matches to do this, don't put your teammates through that shit unless you have a friend to walk you through what to do.
>>332048014
>>332048081
don't know who that is
>>332048116
>Don't know who that is
>>332047617
>>332047651
>just use two mines at the same time if you want the same amount of damage
It was changed for a reason, to nerf the shit out of mines.
And quelling blade fucking destroys techies in lane. A support can follow you around and you will NEVER get a mine down because they quell them before they become active.
>>332048116
Eternal Envy/Jacky Mao
he's not TERRIBLE but he makes some pretty retarded plays at times. He's just wildly inconsistent for a pro
>>332048183
> A support can follow you around and you will NEVER get a mine down because they quell them before they become active.
The idea of this scenario ever happening is baffling. Like I'd imagine that a support being good enough to think to do that in a game would never actually play against someone stupid enough to pick techies
>>332046538
That doesn't work when you get pugna or enchantress or some other hero like that. You just end up playing them wrong.
>>332047912
> I'm not entirely sure why.
Low Damage
Low Health
Incredibly item dependant
Insanely team support dependant to farm/kill
Unless you are one of those turbo farmers that can pull a battlefury out of their ass by 12m mark you should even try playing her
>>332047580
>Supporting Kelly Milkies
>>332048324
>Unless you are one of those turbo farmers that can pull a battlefury out of their ass by 12m mark you should even try playing her
hmm maybe thats why I think she's decent :D
I mean what agi carry starts with high damage, high health, isnt very item dependent and doesnt need a lot of support? I think in the farm dependent PA even kinda wins out there too, because she can just farm with daggers if shes stuck in a kill lane. also 450% crits bro
>>332047580
Usually more of a fan of the players rather than the teams so for example any team that had EE or Puppey had my attention. For western teams I guess that means Team Secret, for the Asian teams I dunno VG's roster in TI4 was basically all my favorite asian players in one team but now they're all scattered
>tfw I will eternally suck but I've managed to win a bunch of games sue to having stacked teams
I want to be put into a lower level of play where I might enjoy it and get better rather than being stomped every time.
>>332047837
She is the second worst hero in the game after they buffed her.
She needs a rework.
>>332044760
Lion.
Lion Lion Lion Lion Lion
He's a support, so you learn about buying courier, wards, dewarding, stacking, pulling the lane, all that shit. His skills are incredibly useful and a God-send in ganking, useful the entire game.
Lion teaches you about positioning. He's the #1 hero for newbies.
>>332048462
>Likes EE and Poopey
>aka the guy who kicked everyone and the guy who single-handedly destroyed NaVi while claiming he was "making an organization for the players" despite the fact that ex-Secret players have never received their tournament winnings
>>332048613
I think that's a good suggestion. Nowadays though when I tell someone to pick a support because theyre learning, I tell them to pick one that farms well. like kotl or crystal maiden
>>332048442
The bears.
No other agi carry has pathetic damage, low hp, and is very item dependent.
Her ultimate is outclassed by juggernauts until she hits 16 but juggernaut has infinitely better defensive and offensive spells than her, better base damage, and better attack time.
>>332048636
>despite the fact that ex-Secret players have never received their tournament winnings
can you expand on this?
>>332048324
>hero has trash late game
>let's build farming items
hate this meme desu
>>332047617
>>332047651
You can no longer walk up to a creep wave or hero, drop a mine and walk off because a single mine does fuckall anymore. Likewise, sieging towers is a lot riskier because you have to hang around for 5 seconds to do the same amount of damage a single mine used to do. They made Techies completely fucking useless.
>>332048712
I tell them to pick Lich, because you almost never run out of mana, reducing the amount of management needed early on, and you have a heavy impact on your lane even if you have trouble with other basics. You spell are point and click and straightforward, wich is also nice.
>>332048768
>>332048712
I don't think kotl is too good for brand new players because a decent number of his abilities require a bit of thinking about when to use them.
someone like lich is great because he can just dump his load on a team fight and do well and sacrifice makes them think about denying
>>332048764
>The bears.
you mean lone druid?
>No other agi carry has pathetic damage, low hp, and is very item dependent.
riki, am, sniper, troll, mirana
I dunno man, I think she's far from the bottom of the barrel. I'd give that honor to arc warden, techies, tinker and meepo
>>332048868
Does 150 dmg at lvl 1.
Not as dominating as before, but still very much painfull. If they are not quick on point with sentries, you can ruin their carries farm. I sometimes buy a quelling myself as a techie so i can instantly deward their sentry, since i will generally have more farm than their support, and i'm not reliant on gold once the soulring and tranquils are up.
>>332047617
The damage of mines were halved on paper with cooldown to compensate, but this is even worse when you take into account that this is physical damage and not pure or magical damage, meaning it's reduced by a further 25-50% making mines near useless in comparison to what they used to be. Stacking the same amount of damage that could instantly kill someone takes about over twice the amount of time and that's if you actually manage to stack the mines close enough too, techies is almost useless aside from his suicide squad and his remote mines.
>>332048764
yet somehow 15% chance to crit means two crit daggers in a row and about 3/5 crits on autoattacks
>>332049020
>Mirana
>carry
>item dependent
>>332049005
yea, lich is definitely also a good option.
Kotl does take some skill I suppose, but how hard is it to spam horses into camps until you have a mek and forcestaff? I'd say lion takes a bit more skill simply because of his range and his reliance on quick combos.
>>332048898
oh I see, thanks
>>332049005
Kotl is also pretty weak. I think Jakiro is another really good hero for new players.
>>332049097
didn't you get the memo? any agi hero is a lategame carry
>>332049087
Lvl 1 most heroes get less than 25% reduce from physical, don't be silly.
>>332049127
how hard is it to look up "ex-secret players not paid"
http://www.thescoreesports.com/dota2/news/6256
>>332049097
Mirana can definitely carry. She's far from one of the best carries, but she can go full right click. and yes IF you build her carry, shes item dependent.
just like how sven and WK can support and then they only need boots and a blink, but if you build them carry they take at least 30 minutes to start raping everyone
>>332049221
yeah I didn't care enough to do that and I'd prefer to get it from YOUR source anyway. thanks.
>>332049020
Sniper and troll do WAY more damage than PA naked and even more with a small amount of items. Mirana is not even close to a carry and riki is a roaming support that transitions into carry.
I'll give you AM but you shouldn't be happy about it.
>we hate burden of knowledge!
>create passives that does 3 things
>reworks masteries that are just as annoying as actual skills
Did dota ever lied through their teeth when balancing the game?
>>332049252
She can, but why would you take a hero who's really good at fighting early and have them sit in a lane farming when there are heroes that are better carries, farm faster and require less farm to carry? I've shat on kids with carry Mirana plenty of times, but any time my opponents haven't been shitters, it hasn't worked out very well.
>>332049473
mirana is best when she rolls into a lane gets a kill, steals a wave or two of farm and then goes off on her merry way.
She ends up with a fair bit of farm from this and can 'carry' in the middle/ late game
>>332049087
50% of 200 and 200 is the same as 50% of 400 man. The only difference in a mine trap is new mine traps take one mine cooldown longer to do the same amount of damage as an old trap would.
I think it's a very minor buff as you can measure your mines a little better with the new mines in terms of making traps, though your level one traps should still almost always be 6 mines which, again, takes a mine cd longer to put down than the old three mine traps.
>>332049323
I miss the +15 dmg from troll berserk.
Always had some retard support thinking they could gank me 2v1 until they got whirling bladed then cut down in a few seconds. Miss those times. Also miss being completely impossible to deny my cs without extreme support agression.
>>332049473
i dunno maybe its fuckin random draft and she was the only person available. or maybe your teammates are idiots and you need to step up and go lategame. or maybe you get ridiculously fed and decide "fuck supporting time for deso"
Broodmother is the best starting hero
>>332049952
>>332049952
>Playing10v10
>Random Visage
>Am terrible at micro heroes
>Don't know what to do with familiars so they're always near me
>Get called a piece of shit because I don't have any idea how to properly use them
>>332049952
Woah there man
I summon Kunkka
One slap and your gimmick is done for
>>332050002
She lets you step back and concentrate on the important things like when to attack.
>>332046518
>haven't played dota 2 for literally years, everyone abuzz about pit lord and arc warden
>check thread out of curiosity
>pit lord STILL NOT OUT
VALVE, NOT EVEN ONCE
>>332050052
Yeah but if you're starting out then people won't know how to counter effectively. I've never seen a low level player effectively counter Broodmother, ever.
>>332050123
Technically he is done, since his hero is in the game data, his skills work and has some voice lines, but he is invisible since he has no model and his skills show no animations either.
>>332050090
wait holy shit I can't tell if you're trolling
>>332050052
which ability has the best sound in the game and why is it Ghost Ship
http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/e/ea/Ghost_Ship.mp3
>>332047651What a lot of people don't realize is that you can kill supports with 1-4 armor easily with three mines at the start of the game. You're effectively getting a kill on 1.5 mines in contrast to the 3-4 you would need to spam in the last patch. It's fucking great.
>>332050051
I feel the same with meepo. I can't into using the clones effectively
>>332048868
>You can no longer walk up to a creep wave or hero
you couldnt before this either. They shouldve changed to old 3 sec activation delay, like on arc warden wraiths.
>>332050202
That's not Global SilenceI was really disappointed when Silencer finally got used at TI5 and there wasn't any arena effect for it in-person
>>332050051
If you're new, just have all of your guys on ctrl+1, your familiars on ctrl+2, and you on ctrl+3. If that's too much, just have you and your familiars selected at all times and when you need to stun (after they blow their load) just do tab > Q > wait > Tab > Q.
>>332050193
Remember we're talking about people starting out, not people experienced in the game.
>>332050267
Yes you could. Techies could easily push out empty lanes with just red mines before and with some disables from allies, the old mines could seriously fuck your shit up. Now taking a mine to the face is like a mosquito bite.
>>332046832
>If all that separates good from great is rote knowledge then there isn't that high of a skill ceiling.
Dota is a game mainly about knowledge and decisionmaking, mechanical skill isn't that important.
Incidently, the main problem with the game is tied to the playerbase's ignorance (and elitism), which is what makes the game an unplayable mess.
>>332050202
The banter on that ship is so great.
Also concotion has a nice effect too, what the greevil says when it's about to blow on you is usually rather nice.
>>332050286
How do I get good as Silencer
This is the kind of shit that triggers people like RTZ, but I think it's obviously good for accessibility. Just because you don't hide some of the base mechanics doesn't mean there aren't thousands of obscure interactions that are still around, giving the game flavor.
>>332050385
Press R at the right time
>>332044760
I started with windranger, i highly recommend u avoid drow ranger. Drow looks easy but is very hard for new players to play even half way decent. Just play windranger and look up a guide
>>332050385
Pay attention to the map.
>>332050338
No nigger any good player would move out of mine radius when there was 3 sec activation delay. Since that change any retard faceplants mines and think theyre hotshit
>>332050436
>>332050474
I guess I'll just practice more.
I'm trying to do the all hero thing and I'm stuck on him
>>332050325
>>332050183
telling someone to win by cheesing shitty players isnt gonna make them good at the game. All theyre gonna learn is how to pubstomp baddies, which significantly stunts their growth as a player
>>332050123
>pitlord isn't out yet
Huh just noticed that, too bad his ult seems weaker now since boots of travel works on heroes and creeps
>>332050286
>Arena effects
Being there really was something else, Jesus Christ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlLgP53DQRE
>>332050516
As long as you don't support with him you should be good.
Also try to roam a lot, getting kills will inflate your damage and help you snowball like crazy since glaives deal pure damage now.
Think about him like a squishier LC.
>>332050385
what these guys said >>332050436
>>332050474
and also: silencer wants to be in on every kill to gain int stacks. silencer is extremely immobile, so invest in a forcestaff or something. because you want to get in on fights, maybe get a mek for your team
as soon as you start making cash, start building semi right click items like an orchid
harass with glaives like crazy in lane, always.
silencer also works better if your team has big initiation like tidehunter or faceless void, and you'll want to time your global to coincide with that.
also silencer used to get absolutely dunked on by bristleback or any early game run-down bullies like that, so look out for guys like him
>>332050516
Silencer is antiteamfight so once you know the enemy team is committed blow the ult, otherwise they're just going to disengage.
Lane harass into kills. Word does a shitload of damage and it has huge range.
>>332050651
>as long as you don't support with him
whats wrong with eating every enemy's int while supporting?
>your favorite hero never gets picked in the pro scene
Wish this nigga could caw some motherfuckers
>>332050527
Better to have them start with meepo and invoker against smurfs then?
>>332048712
> I tell them to pick one that farms well. like kotl or crystal maiden
Fucking CM in my last game fed all during the laning phase and never farmed jungle.
But what really lost us the game was the fucking Mexican Clinkz mid rushing midas, going afk for minutes at a time, 0/0/0 at 16 mins in with no ganks and GOING AFK DURING A TEAM FIGHT
Late-night DOTA. Not even once.
>>332050742
at a professional level his ulti really isn't that useful
you'd have to be terrible to let his egg go off
>>332050220
WIth 4 mines you can kill rubick, barely.
3 mines wouldn't even kill kotl.
>>332050749
no, not necessarily, just a hero that is more... standard? i guess. like a wraith king or sven. easy to play, has multiple item choices and will most likely remain relevant in dota for a very long time
>>332050724
He's way too squishy and trying to go support (which in spanish means no gold, nor exp) with him will just make him feed as a new player.
Going safe or mid (or even roam with some dedicated farm) will give him a chance to shine in fights and not die in 2 hits.
Just the way I see it, my 2 cents.
>>332050801
I think generally you might be right, but if you watched the shanghai major you'd have witnessed the absolute rape that some guy was dishing out on phoenix.
>Mirana is now Princess of the Moon
When the hell did they change it, I've never noticed for so long
>>332050742
he does get picked a fair amountbut as a fucking pos 4 support and not hte offlane teamfight monster that he deserves to be played as
>>332050960
>Doesn't remember PotM Bottom
>>332050651
>As long as you don't support with him you should be good.
That's generally what you should do. Support and transition into a core if you have a good game.
It's too risky to play him as a core straight out of the gate. His carry ability isn't that strong until you've built up a lot of int, a lot of it which comes from stolen int.
Veil is a pretty good pickup on a support transitioning into a core Silencer.
>>332047178
>arc warden
>every game he gets midas, rushes divine, sits in base and just builds up divines
>every game invoker
>he gets no healing/mana items
>just fucking tops games even though he clearly has no idea what he's doing
>every game has a OD
>just AA's everything
this meta is shit.
>>332050798
>chink druid jungling on my team
>stomping niggers with riki
>28 minute game, go 10/1/14
>druid gets his first assist at 25 minutes
>ends the game with nothing but midas radiance
How do I invoker?
>>332051180
behold the meatball
>>332051180
With this
http://www.invokergame.com/
>>332051180
grow more fingers
>>332050801
The point of the egg is to force an undesirable choice on the enemy and hopefully make them slip up.
The problem with that is that pro teams rarely will slip, so he's rather pubstomp tier. Still a fun birb though.
>>332046796
How can you be bitching about 15gb? You know it's the whole source engine with it too right?
15gb is nothing compared to a lot of other shit these days, you fucking autistic dick nigger.
>>332044540
test
>>332050937
Eventually, at SOME point, people will learn to hit the Egg or Tombstone.
It burns people now because they don't know to hit it. But give it time and it will be second nature.
There was a time when last hitting was not common place. Now it's second nature. When the Tombstone goes off you hit it until it fucking goes down. You save a stun for the channeling ultimate. These are all basic skills that people will learn and that's why some heroes just suck because they enter the fight with one less skill.
There was a time when Lion's Mana Drain was considered him having one less spell than Shadow Shaman. Then people learned that you just Impale fuckers out of lane with it. There was a time when Lich's Sacrifice was a joke, until it denied significant amounts of EXP and gold.
>>332051141
Some people (read: idiot) say that this is the "most balanced patch dota has ever been in XD".
The current meta heroes are however in fact far worse than troll & sniper ever were (the real problem with the patch was memeback, which is still in the game).
I'd argue that game state wise the game is currently the worst it has been in since early Allstar days.
>>332051014
>offlane monster
Amen, give him an early 6 and there's no escape.
Admittedly though giving him the pos 3 he deserves is going to cripple your team in the long run as opposed to picking someone who scales well like bristleback. He will spike very hard once he hits 6 but if the enemy denies you properly and you fail to peak properly, you're fucked, straight and with no question. He can sort of kind of catch up if your support stacks for you but those are stacks that could be going to the carry. He needs to win early, and if he does, he wins hard, very pubstompy and honestly, pretty much a win-more situation which has little place in the professional scene without some very specific conditions.
>>332051296
If only phoenix had some sort of spell that made it hard to kill the egg, or if he had some sort of ally that could prevent it from happening.
>>332051389
>bristle
>scales well
>>332051220
>http://www.invokergame.com/
badass. 112.5 seconds before i absolutely fucked up tornado
>>332051446
>he's never seen a bristleback build carry
He doesn't even need to go out of his way, Crimson+AC and you're an unkillable monster with massive damage. After that build shit like abyssal and you'll still be very relevant at all stages of the game. Not anti-mage tier, but it's nowhere near close a drop as some other heroes like, well, axe.
>>332051446
he DOES scale well as a tank. as far as "tanks" go, the only real options are like bristle, axe and centaur. axe is just garbage anyway
>>332046796
Wow you don't know shit about videogames
Go back to the fucking 90s bro
>we won't add auras because too much visual clutter
>proceed to add shit ton of visual clutter via cosmetics
VALVE IS OUT OF TOUCH
>>332051418
The point is that against not-retards, Phoenix and Undying have one less skill than everyone else.
Lion and Lich were perceived to have one less spell, but they didn't.
>>332051332
Man, I don't remember what it was like competitively in the Allstar days. We looked up guides and learned to play but there was no competitive metagame; the closest thing I can think of was insane chain-stun/nuke lineups: Lich, Venge, Sven, Rhasta, Bane, Lion, etc. Playing a Agi hero essentially made you look like a retard if said hero wasn't Viper. People were regularly getting to Level 25 and Six-Slotting all the time. I honestly cannot say the gamestate is worse now because everyone plays so much fucking better. The coordination even in pubs now is outrageous compared to the Allstar days.
In the past 6 months I played a hero that reached Level 25 once. ONCE. It blew my mind when I realized it.
I'd love to know your reasoning for feeling that way. If the gamestate has gotten worse fine - I'll admit to that with good reason, but the average skill level has come up so far that I can't tell.
>>332051296
I get your point, and those are some interesting anecdotes on ancient dota. But I was talking about phoenix killing it in pro games. I can't remember which team or even which player it was, but it was really fun to watch. I think they only killed the egg once
>>332051642
>>332051626
Bristle scales ok if he snowballs, otherwise he falls off.
Also if the enemy has any potential break carriers then he needs to get a bkb or he's fucked.
>>332051748
This guy is right, you have to play under the assumption that they will always attack your egg, you can't just assume they will be retards. The challenge comes in making sure they 'don't get that chance: landing all your birds, getting halberd or other hard disables, ulting in awkward positions for the enemy, etc.
>>332051775
sure I'll grant that he needs to snowball. buuuut most snowball heroes become irrelevant once the enemy team gets their shit together. bristle on the other hand just dives all your towers and makes you kill yourself with quills. he isnt without his counters, but who is?
>>332051726
The list of negatives added over the years by Valve is just too long to list.
The fact that reddit (and all the trash players there) has heavy influence on how the game is patched (Valve often just copypastes shit from reddit) now is downright sad and shows there is very few (if any) competent people still working on the game.
>>332051892
Invoker.
>>332051852
exactly. I die inside every time I see an undying try to initiate with tombestone. gotta drop that shit next to a chrono sphere or static storm or something mang
>>332051892
Brsitle is one of the most irrelevant heroes in the game right now. Barely touched with P&B at Shanghai and is irrelevant at higher MMRs.
>>332045885
There's tons of really straight forward heroes that are great for newbies.
Sven - dude with a big sword. can literally win an entire fight in two swings
Wraith King - dude with a smaller sword. Only one active ability. Ultimate brings you back to life when you die
Lich - ice dude with ice stuff. Ultimate is a ball that bounces around and ices people.
Drow Ranger - Bow girl. She just auto attacks people and does a lot of damage honestly
>>332051915
the only reason invoker is "snowballing" right now is that his balance has been thrown out of whack and people refuse to pick real counters for lane phase.
invoker becomes next to useless once you have magic immunity, save for rightclicks and sunstrike
>>332052052
>incredibly fragile, farm dependent, positioning dependent, item dependent hero
>you should pick her if you are new
>>332052052
>>332045885
Don't forget Arc Warden and Meepo for good starting heroes.
>>332052029
I'm assuming that 40% is a winrate, in which case I'd like to point out that legion is one of the most popular heroes right now and that chart shows her at only 44%. I dont know man, bristle is definitely not a go-to hero for me, but ive seen him stay relevant many times in games that have gone 60 minutes. maybe im just still in dirt-tier
>>332052052
>recommending sven, wraith king and drow to new players
Sven is the only acceptable recommendation there.
The difficulty of playing a hero isn't just about having as basic of a kit as possible.
Gyro is for example a much better starting carry than any of the ones you mentioned, despite having 4 actives.
>>332052274
I think WK is easier than sven.
Farming efficiently and knowing when to fight/initiate are important skills on sven where wk you just get talon+midas and be useful regardless.
>>332052251
>in which case I'd like to point out that legion is one of the most popular heroes right now and that chart shows her at only 44%
What does popularity have to do with winrate?
>>332051907
Icefrog is my man man. I don't know as much about his method now as it was in the late 2000s but I can only assume that there is an even larger legion of testers making sure the patch rollouts are fantastic. So far as I can tell he or whoever is working on the game have not deviated from this methodology. I find it hard to believe (although it may be true) that shitters have tainted this game when their whining had no impact before. Each idea is tested by actual players in the Test Servers; do you think the shitters actually do any testing - never in the history of anything do the whiny bitches lift a finger to fix anything.
Valve can fuck with this economy and cosmetic bullshit all they want. Sure they're lazy fucks who focus more attention to making money but the game is as glorious as I've ever seen it. Skill overhauls have been welcome in my book and the addition of Aghs for so many guys. So many heroes used to be utter dogshit like Axe (who is still dogshit just less so) and Sniper (still crap, but I think Sniper is important from a game design perspective to be a piece of shit garbage to teach newbies that your range isn't going to save your waddling ass). Skeleton King and Sven used to have the same stun; Lion and SS had the same Hex. So many heroes were one dimensional before.
>>332052345
>I think WK is easier than sven.
Newbies are going to spam their stun and wonder why they didn't revive. Hopefully they'll learn to manage their mana more effectively because of this.
>>332052345
Farming effectively, being useful with or without farm, ranged, good in lane, not having kiting problems, etc. are important factors into how easy a hero is to play.
WK is terrible at most of these things. Him only having 1 real active is irrelevant.
>>332052274
>The difficulty of playing a hero isn't just about having as basic of a kit as possible.
it kinda is though. have you ever seen someone thats like BRAND NEW to mobas? my buddy's gf would play venge with us when she was learning the basics and i swear to shit i think i can count the number of times shes used wave of terror on one hand.
it really helps to have basic, understandable heroes when you have no idea how to use the shop efficiently or what any of the enemy heroes do. new players have so many things to juggle that we take as second nature. like trying to get her to use the courier... holy shit she just couldnt do it
>>332052440
Saving 160 mana to revive is not a complicated concept. New player does not mean mentally disabled.
>>332052354
well you said BB wasnt relevant. surely someone that gets played a lot is relevant. unless you meant "viable"
>>332052454
WK has one of the best single target disables in the game and blink dagger exists.
>>332052462
See this is what I am talking about. Women are fucking stupid and can't play games. If you have played games before it wouldn't be that much to take in.
>>332044540
About time Valve made the game a little less achaic by not having so much info hidden for no good reason.
Now they just need to show mana bars above enemy units, put visible runs on the minimap, and have a hotkey that list's everyone's last-known items.
It's been said already but Lich is the best newbie hero to play.
Even if you play Lich utterly wrong as in aim all your spells at the WRONG targets, you still contribute. There's no failure to Mana Drain properly with Lion.
You eat a creep. Frost the enemy. If there's two enemies Chain Frost both of them. Get Armor, put it on your friends. So long as you get Chain Frost off and die you've done your job - it does all the murdering for you.
You will be told to buy Mek and brown boots. Easy to do. Once you get the basics down you learn to buy wards. After that you learn to roam and the value of map control.
You don't tell new players to play carries. You teach them to fucking DIE in DotA and if they're willing to sacrifice for the good of the team, that's what makes them better. Otherwise they'll get lucky, play against bad players, dominate, and become one of those people who pick 5-carry teams to feel like the big-man.
>>332052570
>See this is what I am talking about. Women are fucking stupid and can't play games. If you have played games before it wouldn't be that much to take in.
nah, that's not true. and IIRC she wasn't a gamer to begin with. i DO NOT WANT to get into a discussion on women, but suffice to say that I know several ladies that are pretty decent at dota, though most are shit, yes. then again, i think most guys i see that play dota are shit too
>>332052631
fuck you
literally turning it into liege of legends
>>332052402
So you think that introducing for example the copypasted Legion Commander Aghs that was so fucking bad that Valve reworked it a short time afterwards (to another reddit suggestion, hilariously enough) is a sign of Valve actually doing significant playtesting?
Or how about OD. He got a rework last patch and wasn't removed from CM (but Riki was, despite getting significantly nerfed). Then reddit complained that they though OD was weak, so he got buffed repeatedly over a very short timespan afterwards despite there not being any active tourneys for him to be tried out at or whatever.
Now look at OD, he's a fucking beast because reddit (read: fucking massive trashcans) said he was bad.
Are you now telling me that OD was extensively playested by competent players? That most of the changes we see now are extensively playtested despite many of them just being copypasted from reddit?
>>332052631
I like how you can't see the enemy's mana
It takes that little bit of extra work to see how much mana they got.
>>332048324
I don't know about that. I play 4500-5000 and I most often pick PA when the team has no carry. I do a specific build of Wand, Poor Man's, Phase, 14 minute BF (because I almost always get a kill or two early).
She just starts shitting on them with that Basher + Satanic. Usually the enemy gets knocked off their feet so hard they never recover. And if they do recover I'm good enough at picking targets in fights they just lose fights until they lose the game.
>>332052508
>well you said BB wasnt relevant. surely someone that gets played a lot is relevant. unless you meant "viable"
Bristle's pickrate peaks at absolute shit MMR and even then his winrate peaks at 50%. As players gets better he is picked and wins less and less because better players understand how weak Bristle actually is at the moment.
Yet you claim that Bristle isn't in a very bad state right now, possibly even that he's "fine". This leads me to believe that you're a bad player playing at a low level of play.
But sure, let me rephrase: When people actually know how to play the game, Bristle is irrelevant.
>>332052727
What's wrong with making info more easily accessible? If anything it'll prompt players to play smarter. Those who waste their mana will be more likely to get punished by their enemies, for example.
>>332052963
meh, maybe. If you want to make this about me and my skill level, I get matched into very high skill with 4.5k's regularly.
Like i said, I don't particularly like BB, but I've seen him do his job throughout the whole game.
also, if we're gonna just extrapolate that winrate = good/OP then we should be looking at other extreme examples that are completely contradictory to reality. like fucking wisp and chen that are objectively VERY good but everyone sucks ass with them so their winrate is crap
>>332050052
Axe better counter to brood. Will ruin broods entire game
>>332050385
Use global silence after enemy team has engaged but before your team gets raped by 5 ultimates. Stay alive and collect free intelligence just for being you. Spam your skills. Make forcestaff, probably most important silencer item
>>332050548
Its really not
>>332050651
Legion and Silencer don't really fit the same role. The snowball from legion is far more substantial, and based around the hero having autistically good starting stats, Silencer is far more of a ganking hero early and curves out at a slot 3 position, where as LC fits better at 2 or 1
>>332050742
Phoenix received nerf after nerf for so fucking long that he is pretty much trash. Sunray went from being level 1 kill material to basically unskillable. Fire spirits no longer heal on usage. The hero is one of my favorites too but currently awkward and not fitting in this farm heavy meta
>>332051141
This meta is pretty stale. Whenever manaburn becomes big it is hugely unenjoyable. We had 4.2 PL make diffusal for an entire summer, followed by the rise of EMP voker, only to receive battlefury AM when that finished. AM phased out, only to be replaced once again by EMP voker with a turbo powered mystic snake medusa. KOTL got mana leak buffs to become the most annoying support, and Necronomicon got significant and annoying buffs. Also not a fan of arc wardens prevalence.
>>332051180
Exort build is easiest. Most skilled invokers go 4 levels of Wex early, after that drop points into Quas of Exort, whichever suits your fancy, but having 4 levels of Wex gives you strong utility.
>>332051250
Phoenix ult has huge teamfight potential in combo line ups. He just sucks during laning phase and doesn't fit this meta very well.
>>332051446
Your 1.5k MMR is showing
>>332051726
Phoenix and Undying just require good position of those skills, which you evidently don't have.
>>332053173
>Axe better counter to brood
But then you're stuck with an axe the entire game.
>>332053269
I don't think axe is a very good brood counter.
Wyvern is probably the best one. Tide is also really good.
>>332053317
nonsense
I'm pretty sure wyvern's nuke can't kill a spider in one cast.
Axe is perfect for countering brood.
Source: I pub stomp with brood but have a lot of trouble when I try to jenga them when they have an axe.
>>332053269
Axe is a great initiator so it isn't even a bad thing.
>>332053269
Well then you better fucking end the game quickly.
I win a stupid amount of games for no reason other than picking Axe or Bristle and engaging aggressively at my peak. So many people just don't know how the fuck to handle that shit, and they'll throw underfarmed carries at me or fumbling around until my team has a huge advantage. I mean, I lose plenty of games because I'll start falling off or I'll get cocky, but I figure if I'm taking as much as 6/10 it's a working strategy, and my ratio is usually better than that if my team lets me do it.
>>332051726
To answer you about ye olden competitive days, it depends on the patch. 6.49 back when Mek wasn't restricted to one/team every game was pick AOE heroes and everyone make Mek (not even shitting, it was hilariously fun at pub level though). The meta slowly evolved. Mid used to always, ALWAYS be a dual lane, not even shitting you. Solo would usually be reserved for offlane. High skill heroes such as Storm and SF were all the rage. Yes you are right that the level of pub play, and play in general, has gone up dramatically. Also, the introduction of smoke in Allstars was a fucking incredible game shattering experience. Allstars also relied heavily on exploits of the WC3 engine, such as NP being able to trap creep waves with sprout permanently to deny a whole creep wave, SK being able to get massive range on impale but hitting unpathable cliff terrain (called the forbidden techniques lol), etc.
>>332051852
Phoenix has an attack slow, as well as positioning yourself on cliffs or at times when it sucks to engage are all work arounds (play phoenix tide if you don't believe me, you will rape teamfights with ravage egg)
>>332051907
Agreed
>>332052150
In Allstars, a Traxex on team basically meant a loss. Has always been a noob hero, and a shitty one at that.
>>332052345
WK is shit on by this meta. Don't suggest for noobies.
>>332052402
The actual style of patches has changed significantly since Icefrog originally took over. Patches were usually like small tweaks, we never had patches that would rework five different heroes at once with new abilities. Recent patches have dumped items and changes at alarming speeds, and turn the game upside down each patch. It is not how Icefrog used to do it.
>>332052631
Manabars are considered a hack and unfair advantage in the WC3 competitive scene for good reason. Having that much information readily available is not a good thing, and can give advantage to players hounding enemy mana pools
>>332052651
Agreed
>>332052747
I'm willing to believe you, but you're going to need to find these copy-paste jobs from Reddit. If Reddit says heroes are weak-shit that might be true but are you saying that Reddit's suggestions are being implemented? Because their implementations are certainly going to be crap. However, I would not deny that they are a good source of creative ideas.
For all the egregious faults you've named, and I'm not denying them, I just feel that each hero has gained so many additional dimensions since Icefrog has started getting paid to do his job. I think Mangoes transformed heroes like Sven, Wraith King, and Timbersaw and gave them new initial builds. Smoke man. SMOKE.
Personally, I've always felt OD was a strong motherfucker. There was no way to gank him because he had banish, which essentially shut down ganks.
I hope that one day we'll just stop having these cancerous power fluctuations. Yet on that day heroes like Sniper will still be utter and total crap for good reason - and Reddit for all their whining will never change that fundamental part of him. OD, Troll, Shrapnel Sniper, and all the other trends are just trends that people were slow to adjust to. People will always be slow to adjust and major sweeping changes will never be less frequent but I believe that our skills as a community will improve, and we'll find faster in-game non-patch solutions to things like OD. Because though Sniper got better when he went apeshit, it didn't stop me from blinking onto him and killing him the same as all the other times I killed him.
>>332053082
>like fucking wisp and chen that are objectively VERY good but everyone sucks ass with them so their winrate is crap
Go here, sort my 5k mmr.
http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/meta
Chen is top 3, Io top 32.
Naturally you should take these numbers with a grain of salt and apply your game knowledge to understand why they are where they are, but it's clear tha Bristle is not in a good spot at all atm.
This is also considering his presence and success in competetive, which is severely lacking.
>>332053408
A position 5 support can shut down a brood push by herself at 1200 range and fuck up brood herself with curse. It doesn't one-shot spiderlings but it doesn't need to. Axe is still pretty vulnerable against brood and can only rely on blink calls to counter her.
>>332053582
>huge ass post to address the entire thread at once
>part of it is just saying "this"
What the fuck.
>>332052747
OD is undoubtedly a mistake. He is a powerhouse at all skill levels right now.
>>332052963
At higher levels Bristle is easier to counter, doesn't mean he isn't a powerhouse in the right situation. You wouldn't pick Chen into every line up, but Chen is still a strong hero.
>>332053269
Not a bad thing
>>332053317
You obviously haven't seen a competent axe play against brood
>>332053408
This man knows
>>332053689
You are an idiot. After TI WW got nerfed to be unplayable. Axe will dominate brood in lane and all game, try PLAYING A FUCKING MATCH OF AXE AGAINST BROOD ABOVE 2K MMR.
I am concerned that the significant patch changes different from the old tweaks and such are to accommodate the competitive (i.e. money making) game. Players won't be interested if the pros are playing the same DotA this year as they are the last year.
It's unfortunate when all we desire is a stable game to learn from. But they have to change it up drastically and constantly to attract the spectator crowd dollars.
>>332052631
Showing mana bars just makes Anti-Mage's life easy mode. It also means that you know when the enemy can't do what they need to do.
>>332053780
WW has a higher pick and winrate in pro games than axe reddit spamposter.
>>332053782
Game used to be balanced solely to the (small) competitive scene, with pubs adapting. Now you can definitely tell how the popularity is influencing the game, and the competitive scene is adapting to the pub scene, which is ass backwards.
>>332053689
>pos 5 support shutting down a solo brood off
not to be mean but that is so very wrong.
Curse isn't going to do anything on brood solo. Supports is what brood initially feeds off of so dealing with her with a 14 minute orchid is impossible.
And once axe gets a vanguard or crimson guard, spiderlings do absolutely no damage to axe no matter how many you have and at that stage it would be difficult for a brood to solo axe because of her shit stat gain/low total hp.
>>332053892
Fuck off you nerd that hero is untouchable shit after ultimate changes.
>>332052747
Not that guy, you're right but I don't think it's fully blamed on reddit. I'm not entirely sure what has occurred, I presume laziness on icefrogs part due to valve somehow, but it's more or less just not taken seriously anymore.
He still does help fix certain heroes the way he use too but now, instead of specific heroes needing a bit of a nerf/buff, it's implemented more towards casuals and letting things rot for a while. What i mean is techies and morphling.
1.) So the techies nerf was one extreme, to another, to another then to death. His mines aren't just awful now due to sentries/gems, but now quelling blade which is almost always turned into talon, gives armor and a way to destroy mines for free. I'm not even going to calculate the damage a single mine gets reduced to now so by late game, that "no mine limit" is factually impossible to help techies due to the damaged being reduced o na single mine, accumulating to a pile of mines BARELY doing enough damage to anyone by mid-late game.
2.) Morphling gets nerfed, okay so he's not great but why ever choose moprh now? Literally any carry does more damage than him and would survive better while still maintaining damage. He had a role before, now he's confused o n what role he need to be. Carry? nope, someone does it better with more impact on team fights. Support? Nope, he only has one stun and a nuke, so split pushing or buying items would be completely pointless. Ganker? Nope. ...He's just not worth playing at all right now i nthe meta, and he has been that way for...a year or more.
God, dota has become such a mess.
>>332053650
>OD, Troll, Shrapnel Sniper, and all the other trends are just trends that people were slow to adjust to.
I don't think you have a grasp on how dota works. A hero that is a powerhouse will get picked up more often than not because it has more reward and usually lesser risks. This will ALWAYS happen.
Fuck this rant
>>332053881
If the additional insight is too much of a boon for Anti-Mage, then nerf him. It's not a big deal.
And maybe the enemy ought to learn not to be so wasteful so that they don't get their shit pushed in when caught with their pants down.
>>332054292
not him but it would alter the play style of dota so much, that it would start playing like league. Even if it's this one little thing like visible mana bars.
I play league occasionally just for laughs but it's an entire different scene.
>>332049952
Fucking no.
>pick brood
>enemy trilanes SB, kotl and naix
Every game with this shit.
>>332053964
The thing is, I want DotA to be immortal. I want it to be fucking Chess and Poker - played decades from now, I want it to be something kids ask their parents about.
And the cost of that is to relinquish the game to the masses to ensure population stays up. I know that's disgusting to say but the game must remain dynamic and go in cycles of this being strong to that being strong while some things get hit with the nerf bat. The dream of having this game be a ridiculously well tuned and fairly balanced solid game is long gone.
The dream of a solid product that is finely tuned slowly and methodically can be achieved if the community plants a flag somewhere and says, "This will now be known as classic DotA forever and ever" while the current DotA continues as it has been.
>>332054513
That will probably be 6.66c, undoubtedly the most stable patch I ever played. Was a good ass patch, RIP the good ol' days
>>332054784
From the days when DOOM was good and not a dumb gimmick
Im not sure how to feel
>>332044760
do not buy techies, that hero is like 60$ and useless af senpai
riki is a good hero to start and only cost 10$
>>332054449
that's why you last pick brook
>SB
>trilane
what the fuck kind of terrible pool are you in that SB is laning with LS at all, let alone laning?
>>332053964
>competitive scene is adapting to the pub scene
this is completely unfounded bullshit. The fact it took 2 straight years of people asking drow to be nerfed for pubs, only for her to be nerfed when her exploit with visage was found and used in pro games, the fact OD remains where he is despite pubs whinging about him nonstop, the fact omni and necro have retained >55% pub winrate for over 6 patches, and aba for almost the same, the fact heroes like chen, earth spirit, oracle, etc aren't getting buffed to shit to fix their <40% pub winrates, the game is not being balanced by, or pandering to, the pub games. It is, for balance purposes, always dedicated to pro games. Things like Spring Cleaning update bringing in QoL changes is for pubs and people learning the game, but balance patches will never be for pubs.
>>332053650
>but you're going to need to find these copy-paste jobs from Reddit.
You're a funny guy, you know that. Do all that work in a dying thread jsut because you can't find this out on your own. I don't care if you don't believe me, that's your problem.
I know there was a thread on reddit that listed a bunch of them, so if you really care then go there and search or ask for it.
>I think Mangoes transformed heroes like Sven, Wraith King, and Timbersaw and gave them new initial builds.
They were bandaids that compensates for their weaknesses, things that balanced them.
Meanwhile they slaughter heroes like Huskar into shit tier by reducing his max magic resist from berserker stacks to the same value as AM has from his passive at max rank, 62% total. This is when Huskar is almost dead, mind you.
The balancing in this game is a fucking joke now.
>>332053780
>At higher levels Bristle is easier to counter, doesn't mean he isn't a powerhouse in the right situation. You wouldn't pick Chen into every line up, but Chen is still a strong hero.
Here's the thing.
Chen is not only far more versatile than Bristle, he has fewer stronger counters to him (seriously anyone that can build silver edge gives bristle a bad time).
Chen is also far stronger in the matches he's a good pick in compared to Bristle.
Bristle got powercreeped hard in addition to the break shit.
>>332056118
You're wrong.
The game is balanced both for pubs and competitive. There are countless examples where heroes or the game itself has been buffed/nerfed because of both independently.
This happens now and even years back. For example SB got tons of complaints years ago from pubbies so Valve nerfed him despite being irrelevant and never picked in competitive.
Similar deal with Bloodseeker and more.
>>332056938
The fact that hero is overlooked in pro scene doesnt mean he isnt too strong in general.
i'd say those new indicators should be disabled for pro plays and possibly for ranked games above 4k. perhaps you can keep spawn boxes because it's really an irrelevant and trivial knowledge.
i definitely think it's a really good thing for the game that you now can acquire knowledge easily in the game instead of having to spend one hour watching/performing obscure things to determine the boxes.
Tower ranges also might make new player's life easier and make them learn faster, which is good. i think that after playing 100 games with tower ranges ON you could switchto a tower-ranges-OFF-game and be a better player than what ou would have been without this patch.
they need to bring in new players into this damn game; Since they can disable those features for high ranked games and pro games it makes sense to add even more( it's not like the game would become too easy anytime soon)...what about:
-visual indicators for "elapsed time on stun" like league. would make learning stun stacking easier.
-the top bar with all heroes tell you when an enemy ultimate is off cooldown as long as you have seen the enemy hero cast it
-you get reminded of when aegis is about to expire and about the start of the 3 minutes window for roshan respawning
-you are able to see enemy team GPM and XPM(not total network) for the last minute only to better understand when it's on you to push.
-courier is immune to everything ( only for very low rank UNranked games)
-a real-data-learned algorithm suggest your team when it's a good idea to push lanes, when the enemy team is scaling too much with gold and you need to do something etc ( only for very low rank UNranked games).
When
>>332057324
Right after HL3 releases
>>332057079
>The fact that hero is overlooked in pro scene doesnt mean he isnt too strong in general.
What hero are you talking about here that is sleeper OP? Is it still that shitstain Bristle?
>>332057079
>lower winrate than elder titan
>overpowered
sorry, you're going to have to get out of 2k by yourself.
>>332057324
>When
Honest prediction here, autumn/winter 2016.
Valve has decreased the rate of hero releases significantly, so this year we will only get him. Considering Valve will be too "busy" with SEA Major and TI means we will only see 1-2 relatively small balance patch(es) before TI.
The first balance patch is due late april.
>>332057698
i'm really not looking forward to it, shitlord sounds like an annoying hero. hopefully he doesn't get the techies treatment, where he's OP for a year until he single-handedly wins a TI, then nerfed into permanent irrelevance.
>>332057585
I am not talking about any heroes, I am saying that your opinion is bullshit. If pub doesnt pick hero, it doesnt mean it needs rebalance. If pro scene doesnt pick a hero, it doesnt mean he needs rebalance. Hero can be OP and unpopular. The obvious example would be ES as he is too complicated to for average pub. Hero can be underpicked in pro matches but be OP. Like you yourself listed, SB is a good example of this. He wasnt picked because of the meta, not because he was weak.
Or to be even more obvious. Pick rate, winrate and whether or not a hero imbalanced are not connected.
>/v/ moba threads
>>332057798
>shitlord sounds like an annoying hero
No he was annoying when Expulsion was a thing. But right now he is shit.
>>332057798
>i'm really not looking forward to it, shitlord sounds like an annoying hero. hopefully he doesn't get the techies treatment, where he's OP for a year until he single-handedly wins a TI, then nerfed into permanent irrelevance.
As he is now Pit Lord is fucking garbage, one of the worst heroes in the game easily.
If I would hazard a guess as to why he's delayed until last is because they have problems balancing him.
>>332057992
>I am not talking about any heroes, I am saying that your opinion is bullshit.
You're flat out saying that Valve doesn't balance after pubs when this has been going on for years and now reddit is even directly tied to it.
The only answer to your ignorance is that you haven't been around Dota very long.
>>332048115
>Play bot matches to do this, don't put your teammates through that shit
Why not? They wouldn't have an ounce of doubt about ruining YOUR games, or spend even a milisecond regretting doing that after the fact!
>>332046832
>then there isn't that high of a skill ceiling.
Of course, they're just MOBAs, either braindead easy strategy games or boring easy action games depending on the angle you're looking at them.
Sincerely, it's interesting playing a videogame equivalent of learning a phone book.
>>332058206
>The only answer to your ignorance is that you haven't been around Dota very long.
12 years. If you think that pub and pro is different in any other way than teamwork of the teams involved then you have some learning to do. How strong individual hero is doesnt translate whether or not he will be picked. I really struggle to put it into simpler terms for you to understand. Am I even semi successful in conveying my one point?
>>332048442
I mean what agi carry starts with high damage, high health, isnt very item dependent and doesnt need a lot of support?
Void
>>332058494
>void
>carry
choose one
>>332058454
>12 years
If that's not a lie then you must suffer from some severe mental issues like Alzheimers.
So considering your mental issues and recent posts it's clear I'm just wasting my time trying to reason with you, especially since you seem to be illiterate as well.
>>332058685
Yep, I remember Guinsoo's riki and shit. Played on and off. English is not my native language and for some reason I am struggling today. But you understand, right? My point is pretty straightforward. Relative strength of the hero isnt the most important factor of picking. So saying that BS who wasnt picked because he just didnt fit in the teams of pro scene was nerfed solely because of pub players isnt right. He was too strong as a hero, but he wasnt useful in a coordinated team play. Because thats what important in pro scene. Teams strength, not individual hero strengths.
>its an ASSFAGGOTS thread
why cant the moba genre just die already
>>332049603
>i miss playing a broken hero
OD, Invoker
here
