So after playing Sticker Star back when it came out and finding it boring as hell, I just finished playing Paper Mario for the first time on Wednesday and I've been playing TTYD over yesterday and today and I love them both.
The first two games have been fantastic. Fantastic writing, fantastic gameplay, fantastic graphics (both aesthetics and mechanics), the characters are well written and charming, and the gameplay is satisfying.
How did they fuck this series up?
>>332041721
Sticker star is bad because all the reason you listed as why the originals were good are now gone
The writing is meh
gamepley is meh
graphics are meh
bland characters
Sticker star is the videogame equivalent of eating paper
>>332041901
Yeah, but how did they manage that? They did it twice, so what the hell changed that made them suddenly incapable of making good Paper Mario games?
>>332041721
I was just having a nostalgia trip over PM1 today. I just remembered how I loved particular boss fights and there BGMs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQLeMEPS7Cc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWqxzGDFtUQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN6eitV7lQc
>>332042125
There is a image floating around discussing the development of paper mario sticker star that should answer your question, maybe ask in another thread
from what I know shiggy wanted it to be more like a mario game and asked to remove alot of the story elements and focus more on game play
>>332042125
>They did it twice
Hold on now, are you talking bad about SPM?
>>332042506
Not him, but just because SPM is comparably better than SS, doesn't mean that it holds a candle to the first two. SPM was heavily criticized on release, like SS, for not being anywhere near as good as the first two.
>>332042506
I'm not talking well about SPM, though that opinion is literally only based on what other people have said and the general idea that I am biased towards the first two games and nothing I've seen of it makes it look good to me. I like the turn-based combat in this series.
>>332042125
>>332042408
Here
>>332042661
There is nothing wrong with SPM as a game. Sure it was a bit lengthier in story, and they did experiment going outside of the turn based combat, but it was a good game. The combat was not bad at all, but actually quite fun. The artstyle was different, but the only things I would give it flak for was the weird choice in NPC creatures as opposed to sticking to Mario creatures, including the partners. But that aside, it was fun and full of character. I would greatly consider it a stretch to even put in in the same league as Sticker Star.
>>332042506
I thought he was talking about Color Splash.
>>332043068
Fuck, I just went full defense force. I'm sorry for that.
>>332042125
Supervisor meddling.
>>332043015
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
What the fuck Miyamoto, why
Miyamoto needs to be removed as... whatever the fuck he is for Paper Mario games.
>waaaaaaaaah you didn't make Bowser serious!! >:(((
>>332043731
>Iwata: You purposefully threw out the basic RPG structure.
I like to imagine that he said that with an angry/irritated tone of voice.
>>332043904
If it were Yamauchi, he would have had their heads rolling.
Apparently the director of the first 3 PM games got assigned to something else and they appointed someone entirely new for SS and presumably CS.
The first Paper Mario is such a nostalgia bomb for me; I sunk so many hours into that game and it really sucks to see where the series has ended up.Also I confess to killing that blue Diglett looking thing during my first play through ;_;
>>332044062
A /v/ drawfag made a Deliverance joke.
the fact that they still haven't put Color Splash in their main highlight for their Nintendo Direct website just shows you that they fucked up.
>>332044202
They don't have one for Kirby either.
But the fact that they only gave 30 seconds of showtime for CS before moving right on to Pokken shows that not even they give a shit about it.
>>332044396
no kirby is in their highlights.
http://www.nintendo.com/nintendo-direct/03-03-2016/#/video-1ndirect
>>332043015
>only 1% voted that the story was interesting
YOU FUCKING IDIOTS LOOK WHAT YOU DID
>>332044460
Oh.
Well, shit.
>>332044718
They shouldn't be using public polls to gauge what they should do in a game anyways.
That's beyond retarded.
Sky3DS+ owner here (I bricked a 2DS trying to CFW so I just sunk $80 into a flash cart).
How good is Paper Jam? I'm currently downloading it.
Did they really fuck anything up, it was a hodgepodge of video game elements neatly assorted into an artstyle.
I find it a little hard to believe.
>>332042125
There's a few reasons.
>Nintendo doesn't want two similar Mario RPG franchises competing with each other, and all AlphaDream does is the Mario & Luigi series, so Paper Mario got the short end of the stick since it's defined by its presentation anyway.
>Intelligent Systems these days always has their A team working on Fire Emblem. Sticker Star was made by a team of newer staff and the only person on the project who worked with the past games was the art director.
>Miyamoto and Tanabe both want the series to be less RPG-esque, and their input on the past two games has done more harm than good. They've been telling the new team to strip away the best features in the games and they don't have the talent to replace those things with something fun.
>>332045719
>Nintendo doesn't want two similar Mario RPG franchises competing with each other
I don't understand how their "competing" exactly. They have a handheld series and a home console series.
I'm starting to think that the first two PM games were flukes, luck, outlier's and SPM and SS are the actual norm for PM.
>>332044162
>>332046137
WhackOW don't hurt me!
>>332045881
Paper Mario somehow ended up on 3DS this gen and if the NX rumors are true then they're merging their handheld and console libraries anyway.
>>332045719
>>Intelligent Systems these days always has their A team working on Fire Emblem
Their A-team was always working on FE, they just made PM as well. Long story short, they dismantled the original PM team and let Miyamoto rape the remains because we can't have nice things and the whole company is pretty much dead.
>>332044035
Also this, people don't realize Nintendo was never about Miyamoto, it was all Yokoi and Yamauchi. Without them, well... we're seeing the results.
>>332046042
Nah, Intelligent Systems has just gotten worse over the years.
There was a time where they were putting out Paper Mario, Panel de Pon, Fire Emblem, Advance Wars and WarioWare all at once. Now we're lucky to get a good Fire Emblem game.
>>332045881
Because they are pants on head retarded?
>>332045719
>>Nintendo doesn't want two similar Mario RPG franchises competing with each other
There's zero proof of this and I'm sick of seeing it parroted every thread just because that dumb-fuck muppet said so.
>>332046745
I mean, it's a logical conclusion. They removed the RPG from the Paper Mario games but kept it in the Mario and Luigi games, and now they seem to be wanting to put pretty much everything on the 3DS.
It's not factual, but it's a reasonable conclusion.
>>332046390
That is 100% false; Fact is that Sticker Star is aimed at very young kids and the game tries to adult proof everything it can as the first 2 games were bringing in a market that was much older that what Nintendo wanted.
I am getting sick of this Sticker Star bashing, it was never meant you, it's meant for the preschool-2nd grade market, the market before they get into RPGs like Yo-Kai Watch & Pokemon.
>>332047410
>take a popular game series that is loved by kids and adults alike
>make a game directed at idiots, er, children
>whaaaaat why is everyone so mad???
In other news, McDonalds has replaced their entire menu with Chinese food, Walmarts are now exclusively selling to farmers and ranchers and have dropped all of their other inventory, and Wizards of the Coast has dropped card and board games and is now creating cooking books.
>>332047410
Paper Mario was for kids too you dumb fuck.
>>332046042
I wouldn't call them flukes. They wanted to make Super Mario RPG 2 and made Paper Mario. I remember when they showed screens of Paper Mario for the GB color before it used the paper aesthetic.
>>332047410
>intentionally narrowing their audience
Not even Nintendo is that retarded.
>>332047747
The thing is that Nintendo only wanted kid as adults had Fire Emblem or were doing PS1/PC stuff, adults were the ones playing Paper Mario because of it's rich story and game play, because they did not get the market they wanted they started adult proofing it with Super Paper Mario with it being a Monster World clone and it did get rid of most of the adults but some still stay because of it's story so they adult proofed it even more with Sticker Star which got rid of everything adults enjoyed about Paper Mario and made it kids only.
>>332048105
Are you retarded or 12?
>>332047826
But more adults were playing it was the thing.
>>332048093
Explain Yoshi's New Island then.
>Adults hate kazoos so lets shove in as many kazoos as we can.
>>332048105
That's a genuinely retarded business strategy and I believe that Nintendo, in their infinite quest to try to only cater to casuals, would do.
>>332045423
>How good is Paper Jam?
It isnt Super Star Saga
>>332048201
Nether.
>>332048105
>what's this, a market we didn't intend started buying our products?
>flush them out, we don't want their money! They can go buy products from our competitors!
>we are SO good at business
I don't think you understand anything.
>>332048229
The casuals left for moble is the thing.
>>332048314
Explain the Wii U then.
>>332048604
You do realize that the Wii U was aimed to bring back some of the core rather than just targeting the casuals right? Just because it was a failure doesn't change what their aim was.
>>332048212
>Explain Yoshi's New Island then.
Artoon.
>>332041721
The writing is good?
Mega kek, the rest is true
>>332048212
>Explain Yoshi's New Island then.
Arzest which is a resurrected Artoon where Blinx the cat was the only decent thing on their repertoire.
The original was made by Nintendo's internal team. They outsourced the other ones to other developers.
>>332041721
They fucked it up when it stopped being about world building. That's pretty much it.. The first two or three games breathed life into a Mushroom Kingdom that had previously been a stretch of obstacle courses.
It's the same reason why people prefer Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga. The Bean Bean kingdom broadened the scope beyond the Mushroom Kingdom and showed us another place in a familiar world that had its own identity.
The stories themselves isn't even that good in the game, but the characterization makes up for that by charming you. Some simplistic gameplay that rewards paying attention to how much damage you and your enemies are doing is just the cherry on top.
>>332045423
It's alright. I wish they would've gone with something else.
>>332048872
The story is your basic Bowser plot for PM64, but his minions had interesting designs.
>>332043068
Yeah, the people in that game are just arbitrary geometric shapes. I get that they are in a different dimension, but I feel they could have done something a lot more interesting with that.
There's also the issue of the world feeling disconnected by being chopped up into different chapters and acts. Each world has four episodes, and while they bring some form of cohesion, it leaves something to be desired in the end.
That said, Bleck is the best villain in a Paper Mario game to date.
>>332048750
Who used to be Sega AM5 (who did Sonic CD & Knuckles' Chaotix when AM8 did Sonic 2 & 3 with STI).
When Woolly World was done by Good Feel who used to be Konami Computer Entertainment Kobe, the guys who made Konami what they used to be back in their golden age.
I miss them already!
>>332042506
SPM was the start of the end for Paper Mario, but to it's credit I know I can enjoy SPM when I boot it up. Can't say the same for Sticker STar.
>>332048976
Paper Mario's story was fun because of all the shit you did on the way to completing your trite "save the princess from Bowser" goal.
That, and those moments where you got to actually act from Peach's perspective.
>>332049238
>who did Sonic CD & Knuckles' Chaotix
neither of which was good compared to the main Genesis games.
>>332045881
To dissuade "one-or-the-other" purchases. But the Mario issue sort of misses the point of the practice completely.
Toei/Bandai, for instance, years ago, started staggering the production frames of new Sentai against new Rider despite the two having roughly parallel airing for about a decade.
The biggest marketing pushes occur at the beginning of their shows, so if two of their newest yearly shows both started at the same time, they'd be "competing with each other" despite the same company owning both franchises. So to avoid that, new Sentai now airs when Rider is at it's halfway point and winding down, and vice-versa.
But this is video games and not toys, and I really don't see how they'd parallel such a situation unless their entire business scheme is centered around releasing 1 new M&L and 1 new PM within the same quarter every year from now on.
>>332049492
Again, the Genesis games were done by AM8.
The Game Gear games however were almost all outsourced to Aspect (except for Sonic 1 who was done by Ancient (Yuzo Koshiro's company) & Tails' Skypatrol which was done by SIMS)
How do you view the Sega AM units by the way?
>>332045423
Gameplay is great, about everything else is mediocre or terrible. Toad Hunts are the work of the devil, and are some of the worst bullshit I've had to go through.
>>332049916
>How do you view the Sega AM units by the way?
AM 1-4 (and their successors) were very good. AM 5-7 were ok. Sonic team made some good non-Sonic games for GC but their last good Sonic games were on Genesis.
>>332045423
Paper Jam arguably has the best boss battles in the entire series, but it really falls short on world building and interesting characters. It's charming for what it is though, and it has some quality of life improvements compared to earlier games.
>>332048231
>>332048908
>>332050234
>>332050541
I never finished Super Star Saga and I only played the tutorial of Dream Team (joke).
Do you think I'll be able to finish this? I didn't finish SSS because I lost my save file and didn't want to start over.
>>332050529
Just about, AM2 was the best one.
As for Konami's units
Kobe (now known as Good Feel)>Tokyo (proto Treasure>base unit>Koji Igarashi's unit>Kojima Pro)>Osaka>Nagoya
>>332050698
I'll be honest with you, I dropped the game, and I pirated it also. I think I would be mad if I had actually spent money on it.
I don't know how to phrase it exactly, but it just feels like there's no soul in it, which is something every other game in the series has had.
>>332050841
Well if I don't like it, it'll free up space on my SD card for Xenoblade. If I ever learn how the fuck I'm going to transfer it to the SD.
WHERE IS MY FUCKING CHAIN CHOMP PARTNER NINTENDO? THATS ALL I FUCKING WANTED!
>>332046137
Never played SS because of the negative reception. Did this guy come back, and if so how did they handle him?
I remember his appearance in SPM being surprisingly brutal.
>>332051465
Nope, unless you're a Toad, a generic Mario enemy, or a floating object with eyes, your days of being a character in the Paper Mario series are done.
>>332051465
No OCs in Sticker Star.
>>332052568
and probably not Color Splash either
>>332052568
There's that one black and white toad.
