Class pruning will kill this game. Mark my words.
Yea, i think most people realised this in wod. They gutted to much and left nothing recognisable for most classes. Just watered down smelly shit paste.
>>331663073
If you think WoD gutted classes, you ain't seen nothing yet. Legion took so much away from some classes, it's insane.
how did you guys not get sick of wow in cata?
>>331662551
I thought the only people still playing WoW were the addicts.
>>331663696
Exactly.
>>331663483
Cata was actually good up to 4.2
opening tier was godly
Thinking of playing again. Any easygoing /v/ guilds?
>>331664316
>/v/ guilds
DON'T
>>331664316
j u s t
>>331663696
Pretty much yeah. Coming up on a year of no content in June I think it is. And a limited content patch at that. If you don't raid there's really no reason people should be subbed.
>>331663073
>>331663191
>had talent trees that made you choose which tree to invest points in to get to what you want while locking out others
>removes it because "lels everybody chose the same thing"
>now 2 expacs later they have to cut and remove and butcher because previously mentioned talent tree system isn't there to limit player choice
>Blizzard 2016
>>331665413
Even if you do raid, by this point there is no point in being subbed. At this point Blizzard has fucked it up beyond repair. We have content droughts because they made everything either not matter. Or too easy.
>class pruning
>classes have only ever been added to the game, never removed
good fucking job you inbred degenerate retards
>>331665810
Class ability pruning maybe?
>>331662551
How do you kill a game that isn't fun to begin with ?
>>331664454
>>331665134
But I've got 3 characters with starting gear that sells for 25,000 gold each, and I want to play with someone.
>will kill
It's already dead. They might as well just make it F2P and put in a full cash shop. It wouldn't make a difference. The only people still playing are the exact type of idiots who would lap that shit up anyway
>>331666073
Feel free to play the game, just don't join a /v/ guild. You'll thank me once someone decides to post screencaps.
>>331665969
nigger vanilla to wotlk is literally the greatest gaming experience of ALL TIME
ALL TIME
It was so good I actually pity anyone who didn't experience it.
>>331666137
What fucks me up the most are the people who have played the game since vanilla and say that this is the best the game has ever been. I honestly have no idea if we played the same game.
>>331666409
>killing the same thing 50 times with automated combat for random quests is the greatest gaming experience of all time
OK
>>331663191
I haven't paid attention, what have they done now?
>>331662551
lack of content will
>>331666418
MoP was the best the game has ever been and WoD is the best the raiding has ever been. Unfortunately everything besides the first leveling experience and the raids sucks ass in WoD.
>>331666859
I seems to remember a huge amount of time doing dailies ad nauseum in MoP. It was better than Cata, is better than WoD. But better than the rest?
C'mon now.
The problem is the class pruning, the problem is this mentality that raid are the only thing that matter.
I didn't play between WotlK and WoD so I don't where it happened but the problem is that there is nothing challenging in pve for a casual like me. Heroics are piss easy, lfr raids can be finished with simple auto attacks, and normal raids are too easy as well.
I shouldn't have cleared normal HFC, I should be clearing heroics and having fun doing that. Now the only challenge are heroic and mythic raids, something I have no interest in doing because as a casual I will not put hours into a raid and I will not look for a guild.
But what else can I do? professions are pointless thanks to the garrison, reputation grind is basically mindless killing of mobs for hours, there are no mounts to look for except for 6 drops that are guaranteed. I solo old content or I do nothing.
That's the problem, for all the talks about WoW being casualized I feel like casuals are the ones who got the short end of the stick.
>>331667000
Yes, WotLK was rep grinding and Vanilla/TBC was boring attunement grinding. MoP had a beautiful world, the best PvP, the second best raids (behind WoD), the best class and had plenty to do out in the world as well as a world PvP encouraging area.
>>331667070
>The problem is not the class pruning
>>331667070
>I'm a casual
>I only do the things made for casuals
>why is nothing challenging
You join a casual progression guild and then casually do the non-casual things at a casual pace.
>>331667149
Rotations don't matter, once you've spent more than 20 minutes with your classes kit you shouldn't have difficulty with it, the only time this has not been true is Enhancement/Feral in WotLK and even then 99% of the difficulty was circumvented with an add-on.
>during MoP blizzard claimed that they've learned their lesson with content drought
>Literally the same thing with legion
>blizzard now claims that their game is cyclical and they're ok with that.
W E W
E
W
Them not giving a shit and spending more effort on a card game already killed the game.
It's not so much the pruning per se, it's the simplification of everything. They have simplified literally every aspect of this game to the point of it being mind-numbing boring.
I've done Durotar Pre-Cataclysm probably a few hundred times but I could do it again without a problem. Why? Every time I do it, it feels like an actual adventure and challenge.
You had to save up silver to buy abilities, if you pulled more than one of those God damn Witch Doctors, you were dead (even one was a decent challenge at Level 5-6).
Let's not forget the fucking Defias Pillagers. My God those things.
They already have killed it and now they're just committing gross abuse of a corpse. The simplification to cater to the minority whining on the forum killed it. Wotlk had a perfect mix of casual and non-casual content. The numbers showed it and I felt like I had so much to do back then.
>>331663994
Wasn't 4.1 where the patch notes were basically "We have nerfed (Literally every boss here) for balancing issues"
I unsubbed that day, resubbed when the DW raid was released did the entire raid on LFR day 1 and quit for good. Fuck doing the same raid I just did over and over for a year until i can get the gear to do the actually challenging stuff, by which time the entire instance is stagnant as nothing much changes except 'Ability now does 2x damage'.
/rant
>>331667418
They've been claiming since WOTLK they want to fix the content droughts, never managed to do it.
I feel like they're so bad at resource management. They spend too much time on areas and dungeons that people hardly spend any time in
>>331667351
In WotlK I could do things made for casuals and be challenged, now I can't.
>>331667487
>they've simplified everything
Except the PvE and PvP and the amount of systems and the interaction with old content.
>>331663696
That's seriously all it is. All the casuals moved to XIV.
The only people still playing WoW are people afraid to do anything else.
I don't mean to shit up the thread but as an 8 years clean WoW addict, how is FFXIV?
Equally as shit? Or better?
I cannot level another character. It's so fucking mundane and boring now. Everything dies in two hits. You accept a quest, open up your map, go to the marked area, kill a few mobs and come back. Meanwhile, BnS and Vanilla leveling still remains far superior to this new age simplistic leveling garbage.
>>331667747
I wish I knew. I quit in the first few hours. The cinematics, NPCs and role playing weaboos everywhere were incredibly cringe. It's great if you're into that kinda thing... I think. Despite the incredibly slow combat.
>>331667747
Better in just about every way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdV_bzJgRxE
Multiple raid difficulties ruined the game for me.
Call it special snowflake syndrome all you want, but it felt special the first time you stepped into AQ, or MH/BT. You felt like you'd worked to get there, and got to experience this awesome new place and bosses.
Now I just ding, do a few 5 mans, and run through it in LFR in a few hours. I don't want to spend months in the same fucking dungeon on 3 more difficulties, fuck that
At least they spend time making the player models a hell of a lot better looking.
>hur why aren't they hyper-realistic with a billion polygons and photorealistic textures like my FFXIV and Age of Conan
1) You can't do that with the Warcraft III engine and 2) realism does not fit Warcraft at all.
>>331668025
What's the point of better models? wasted resources and time.
>>331667747
>>331667879
>>331667893
FFXIV is shit. We already went over this after Heavensward launched. It is now irrelevant.
Black Desert Online is the hot shit now. It's a really good game and a lot of serious players are flocking to it.
>>331667747
it's the same shit.
combat isn't nearly as fluid but class abilities are more varied.
roleplayers everywhere on big servers due to Squeenix not making a separation between normal and RP servers.
>>331668025
They Fucked up the hair styles and facial expressions, the human males look like shrek when he was temporarily human.
>>331668025
Literally what's the point except for waifufags and machina shitters?
My character is fully armoured and i'm focusing on the boss. Should have spent the time on other stuff
>>331667942
They did that to get people to stop complaining about raid difficulty.
All it ended up doing was making people mad that they couldn't get the cool looking armor unless they put 20+ hours a week into the game or waited until the level capped increased so they could solo it.
>>331668114
>It is now irrelevant.
Is that why there's so many threads that hit the bump limit of people discussing the game?
>Black Desert Online is the hot shit now. It's a really good game and a lot of serious players are flocking to it.
Never mind, you're a retard.
>>331667942
This is why I liked the Wotlk model. Casuals could slowly progress through normal raids. Then, you had hard mode. Being with a guild to be the first on the server during then to complete hard modes felt rewarding and people actually looked up to it.
No one gives a shit about firsts anymore or who's doing what in PvE. All most of the players care about is quicker LFR queues.
I stopped playing retail a year ago.
Been playing a character on Nostalrius to lvl 60 a few weeks ago.
I have to admit in all honesty and retrospective. They did improve the game drastically in so many aspects over the years - but also sadly completely destroyed other aspects.
Like for example the content stuff where people complain about 'hurr durr they recycle the same shitty content on three difficulty levels'. Introducing the casual - heroic - mythic thing was probably one of the best things ever.
Just think about it. Vanilla Naxxramas. Fight against Kel Thuzad or 4H or anything beyound Maexxna - what percentage of WoW players at that time saw, hell even beat this content? 0.1? 0.001? 0.0000001?
What is the point in pouring massive resources into generating content like literally nobody of your playerbase gets to see?
>>331667070
>>331667586
You were simply a worse player in Wotlk. Nothing was difficult there either. Raids at the highest level were easier and normal still took an investment you are unwilling to put into the game.
>>331668232
>Is that why there's so many threads that hit the bump limit of people discussing the game?
The game is so dead the devs never had the courage to show actual sub numbers. No one cares about your shitty weebmoe game, faggot.
>Never mind, you're a retard.
This is coming from someone who plays a WoW clone? LOL
>>331667747
It really isn't good. Game was made with having to include the consoles in mind, and it shows.
>>331668216
because pre-wod every wow thread had like 30 shitheads posting that one image comparing a wow and age of conan model
>>331668249
Aye, I didn't mind the WOTLK model in fairness. Plus the separation of 10 and 25 as different difficulty was quite cool, 10 was pretty much the more laidback casual event, then shit got real during 25 man
>>331667487
Most of that is true but at the same time you need to take into consideration that the PvE at high end has gotten a lot more mechanics without the rng that the old vanillia and some of the DESU raids had.
Even the new Zone Ashran is horrible. Not anything like Timeless isle and Thundre Isle that did PvP pretty good. Especially
Timeless with its Bloody coin that could kill their own faction.
The problem with WoW at the moment is that the content doesn't exist after raiding and this is comming from somebody that have just started with HC raiding in HFC with a casual guild that does raiding 3-4 times a week with around 3 hours per raid.
I can't really do anything more than just go for Mythic dungeon for the trinket and Garrison missions for the gold.
>>331668308
I've been on Nos too and a lot of aspects for QoL were drastically improved but when I make a new character and I see "Rank 2 ability - 5 silver", it makes me so happy.
It gives me something to work for while leveling and questing actually takes effort.
>Make a level 1 on Nostalrius. You're surrounded by other level 1s and it feel like you're starting all over again
>Make a level 1 on Retail. You're surrounded by BoA players in Level 1 mounts with a billion gold and no one needs your help or wants to interact with you
>>331667942
They had it perfect in WOTLK, don't know why they changed it from that. I say this as a Burning Crusade faggot.I'm still mad they got rid of cool attunement quests, but they were actual barriers for a lot of people
>>331668308
>What is the point in pouring massive resources into generating content like literally nobody of your playerbase gets to see?
Game longevity. In fairness Naxx came out way too close to TBC, but having something to aim for is a good thing for players.
My guild spent months trying to get to BT, and it was fucking awesome when we finally did it, we'd worked together and reached our goal.
Now the goal is "Kill the boss you've beaten on 3 modes, this time he has another mechanic and harder dmg"
>>331668182
Only one Human male face looks like that, the rest look quite different.
>>331668216
Not everyone likes the shitty tier armors that turn you into shapeless lumps of metal and cloth.
>>331668106
>updating a ten-yeal-old game is pointless, only cater to MY demands or you're a horrible company
>>331668517
Because they collectively decided that they wanted the Call of Duty customers.
>>331662551
I think the absolute contrary will happen, classes will be reduced to their core basics which will make them easier to balance and add further, more complex functionality.
I tried demonology Warlock and it is much better than the fucking mess it used to be, it really feels like a class that is meant to having the control of demons as the main means of damaging the enemy.
The demon hunter class feels fucking sweet too.
I have a lot of hopes for Legion, but only time will tell.
I'm guessing Blizzard is operating on a shoe string budget and all their resources are put into other areas.
>>331668367
>Black Desert is F2P everywhere except the west
Gee, I wonder why that is.
>>331667487
>Play Vanilla when current
>Everything is difficult because I'm shit at mmos and have no idea what works and what does not
>Play Vanilla today
>Entire game is joke, reach 60 and raid no problem
It's certainly much, much easier now, but Vanilla-esque mobbing won't revive the game.
wow stop reporting subs at 4M
that was like 5months ago and they lost millions per month
They are most likely down to 1-3m subs now almost every realm is low pop and remember a realm now is 3-5 merged realms.
So in essence wow is already dead.
Keep in mind this includes the chinese playerbase. If we look at the actual civilized players from US/EU its probably under a million subs.
>>331668491
That is, in my opinion one of the biggest things they completely destroyed. The social aspect.
The game is now basically a single player game and this was a way to make it 'casual' which was absolutely wrong.
Making it more casual by offering easy content (while still also offering hard content) is a GOOD thing.
But completely nullifying the need to actually interact with other players is what, in my opinion, killed WoW.
>>331667525
>Cataclysm release
>Even normal dungeons are difficult for new players
>Heroics require CC and group coordination
>Immediately nerfed into the fucking ground because it was "too hard"
>>331665695
>Old Skill tree used to have a few choices here and there
>New skill tree has a few choices here and there
At least the old one made a difference leveling unlike the current which is like 40 levels of utility abilities and then finally a tier with a good dps option.
I will state the new system does make leveling dps more interesting though since there is more then 2 skills for everyone.
>>331666409
>Played Nostalrius for 2 months
No, vanilla was not the greatest experience ever. Remove your nostalgia googles buddy, vanilla is ok but is not amazing.
>>331668618
Put into what? All their games look and play like garbage. Can't even be bothered to put more people into the beta, let alone have a server that runs at over 20 ticks.
Fuck them. Massive jews they are.
>>331668308
>Just think about it. Vanilla Naxxramas. Fight against Kel Thuzad or 4H or anything beyound Maexxna - what percentage of WoW players at that time saw, hell even beat this content? 0.1? 0.001? 0.0000001?
What is the point in pouring massive resources into generating content like literally nobody of your playerbase gets to see?
See I get it, but when you're not releasing content for an ENTIRE YEAR anyway, you may as well just wait until more people build themselves up to eventually see that content, which they will if they're actually playing the game.
They didn't need 12 difficulties for raids.
>>331668646
lol anon do you actually believe this, if I log in at least 3 Oceanic servers are high pop and 7-8 US servers are high pop
>>331668646
they stopped reporting at 5.4M, not 4.
also really, this common sense degradation only reveals a rational bias and nothing more. right now players are gearing up for Legion by farming an ungodly amount of gold through garrison spam. believe it.
>>331667525
>Fuck doing the same raid I just did over and over for a year until i can get the gear to do the actually challenging stuff
Not defending the current state of the game, but I never bothered with LFR when I played and had no trouble finding raiding guilds. LFR is purely for casuals and people who NEED that one item to magically make them a better player.
>>331662551
you cant kill somethings thats dead
>>331668595
How can you have hopes for Legion when they can't even come up with 3 specs for a new class?
>>331668114
>Black Desert
>Serious players flocking to it
>you have to pay 35 dollors for costumes
>You have to pay if you want to reset skills
>No PvP
>No End PvE content
>No level cap
>Game is a fucking grind
>No trade between players
Found the fucking shill. Eat shit, cunt.
>>331668653
Even 5 man leveling dungeons are fucking shit now.
Heirlooms just make them a total fucking farce, a decent tank can pretty much solo entire groups of mobs.
I seriously worry how new players will react to that kind of thing. Doing Deadmines for the first time was fucking awesome, we wiped a lot but it felt like an actual dungeon, an actual challenge.
Now it's speed run by heirloomers
>>331668656
People were fucking awful at doing them and too used to dungeon finder to understand what a premade is. Casuals would have never progressed.
>>331668839
Why do you want three specs for a demon hunter? They have glaives, use demon powers and transform into one themselves temporarily.
Literally Illidan, what's the point of making a tank or healer out of it? Shit is fine as it is.
>>331668853
It's awful. Heirlooms were a giant mistake and Blizzard should remove them,.
>>331668656
>tfw I actually had hope
They even made a long post with the title "Man dungeons are hard now", where they encouraged players to use CC and coordinate their shit.
But no, 1 week later and we're back to WotLK tier difficulty.
I had fun that 1 week, just 1 week of actually having fun. Explaining tactics, leading the group, marking shit.. But no more ;_;
>>331668738
>What is the point in pouring massive resources into generating content like literally nobody of your playerbase gets to see?
Distinction.
Besides, plenty of people got to see it in TBC for Greenbringer+T3 farm runs and the same dungeon was recycled in WotLK. All old vanilla raids saw farm runs regularly in TBC.
The reason I still play WoW is I feel lost without it. When WoW went to shit, I had no idea what to play. I tried every other MMO and it just felt like a cash grab or poorly thought out.
I tried playing MOBA games but I couldn't get into them. They felt like long and drawn out WoW BGs but with full time shitposters that ruin your game.
>>331668853
You wiped a lot because you were a retard, just like every other person playing at the time. If you're wiping on Nost you might actually be a certified mongoloid.
>>331669013
One spec is tank, isn't it? and I don't want 3 specs, I didn't want the class at all, I am just saying that you can't have hopes for an expansion when the biggest selling point is literally two thirds of a normal class.
>>331668853
>>331668653
Those instances are 10 years old and most people going through them are running alts up to 100, of course they're going through as fast as possible because they've already done them a million times.
>everyone in them is in heirlooms
If they're new players they're not going to have heirlooms.
>>331668853
>He wants vanilla blizz like levening when the level cap is about to be 100.
I don't think the Nostalgia is actually letting you realize what you are actually asking for.
>>331669023
The start of Cata was fun as fuck, pity as usual the retards got their way and it quickly became another AOE spamfest that was a pointless chore to tick off the daily list
>>331668491
My issue is that feeling fades too fast. Vanilla servers are something people join every few months or years, play for a month, and are completely maxed out with nothing to do. People are too comfortable with mmos for Vanilla to last as long as it did when current. Even constantly releasing content won't do very much
>>331667070
>Raiding requires a lot of time
Only if your guild is shit. Raiding in reality takes around 6 hours a week. This is true for almost any MMO that follows the WoW game scheme.
What happens though is shitters burn out their shitter players 9 hours a week with 3 day 3 hour raiding schedules and then wonder why people quit constantly when you are stuck on a progression fight for 2 weeks.
Less time is literally better assuming the players understand to try prepare for the raid as best as they can.
>>331669016
People don't want to spend week of their time to get to the actual end game content, and the people playing the game making new characters were not new players. Heirlooms make sense, but completely fuck over new players learning anything as they're being carried by these people.
Death Knights > Demon Hunters
Arthas > Illidan
Undead > Demons
WOTLK > Legion
>>331669013
Arthas didn't dual weild and we still got DW Frost DKs.
>>331669146
Leveled two 100s from 1 in 2 months, half of the people in instances don't have heirlooms. Half of the people who do have 90+ heirlooms are retarded.
>>331669121
I really don't see an issue with it at all. I don't understand why all classes must have 3 specs, it just makes balance harder and since you don't even wanted the class.
I find it hard to understand why you would be pissed off that they are going to waste less time into a class you did not even want in the game. Not sure I see a demon hunter as a healer either.
>>331668853
>Doing Deadmines for the first time was fucking awesome, we wiped a lot but it felt like an actual dungeon, an actual challenge.
This will never come back. Players were much worse at the game back in Vanilla. I'm not defending current WoW but this shit is tiring. We have had legacy servers for years and people blow through that shit like it's nothing. The game is old, people know much more.
>>331669214
All of those are wrong and you don't even know if the last one is true.
From playing in the beta, Demon Hunters are smooth as fuck, way more smooth than random attack macro Death Knights were at release.
Imagine people still playing and buying expansions for Everquest like this. How fucking pathetic do you have to be to still be playing this decade old game?
People have moved on with their lives and have played bigger and better things and these sorry sacks of shit are still playing the same shit.
WoW players shouldn't be treated like human beings.
>>331667747
FF14 is pretty close to the worst leveling experience I have ever had in an MMO. Extremely slow and you can't even speed up leveling dungeons hardly because they level you down and remove your abilities that come from higher levels.
I never got to max exactly because of how terrible the leveling experience was.
I did love the crafting though even though it was kinda samey once you got the gist of the synergies.
>>331668802
Same, I always just said that I did the LFR and was never lucky when the guild asked me why I don't have any LFR pieces when starting normals. They saw that I was doing good without them, so they didn't mind when I told them that I don't bother with LFR anymore since I was never lucky anyway. As long as I wasn't the bottom DPS in progression, and I hardly was, they were fine with it.
>>331669414
I'm speaking purely from the readings on cool-o-meter.
are windwalker monks okay?
surely demon hunter will be good?
i mean come on, DOUBLE JUMP
>>331669282
Arthas was not a Frost Dk either, so I am not sure what your point is. Assuming he was a mere Dk like us, and not something fucking beyond, the only data we have from Warcraft games is that he is an Unholy Dk, which use 2H.
They really pulled out all the stops here, didn't they?
>Reviving Illidan
>Making Demon Hunters playable about 5 years too late
>Killing off more leaders
This HAS to be good or their game is dead as they know it. I'm betting they're hoping that DHs will draw in the young edge crowd like Blood Elves did.
>don't make content for your game
>players cycle through what little content there is extremely fast through LFG and LFR
>casual players have no incentives to try higher up content because you give them no reason to
>only people doing the mythic raids are hardcore autismos who get bored because there's all there is
>have the final raid tier of your expansion last almost 2 years
>wonder why subs are dropping and people are complaining
TBC had what like 8 raids? This 3 raids per expansion nonsense is killing their game. Even Blizzdrones are mad
>>331669210
>People don't want to spend week of their time to get to the actual end game content,
People don't know what's good for them. All this zerging through content do nothing but reduce the life span of the game.
>>331669382
You know they can have 2 dps specs, right? I am pissed because it means we will get another WoD.
>>331669493Unless you mean literal temperature, Illidan is way cooler than Arthas, man. I'll fight you over this.
>>331668549
Uldaur by far had the best hard modes scheme.
Tournament had the literal worst. Yes let me require my raiders to raid 4 different lock outs in a week to make sure we are maximizing gear. At least it didn't have trash though which was in my personal opinion amazing.
>>331669382
If they don't make three specs they're evil lazy Jews because I said so, and never mind that I don't want the class in to begin with, Blizzard is the devil and everything they make is shit.
>>331669583
YOU FOOL DO YOU NOT SEE THE GREATER IMPLICATIONS
>Kill of 90% of major characters
>Put world into ruin
>Now have a fucking BLANK SLATE to launch WC4 from.
>>331669583
>implying EVERYONE didn't want to play DHs back in TBC
It was widely anticipated to be the first or second Hero class. Anyone who is still invested in Blizzard will buy this and play DH for the first month.
>>331669583
>or the game is dead
>still subs
>selling game time
>selling multiple mounts and pets for years
>had three year long content droughts
I can't believe I'm still responding to "WoW is dead" posts, but what are you thinking? Do you honestly believe WoW will suddenly die when the people who play it put up with so much bullshit? Why do you have such faith in the WoW fanbase of all things?
>>331669563
My point is they had the freedom to make a 3rd spec for DKs even if it wasn't remotely similar to how DKs was in WC3.
Why can't they do the same with DHs? Just make something up, and then polish the theme and gameplay through-out the expansion.
>>331669586
You should never cater to the high tier autismos who clear new mythic raids in a week. Ever. They burn themselves out and they deserve it.
>>331669735
Absolutely right, Anon. It was the jews!! Fucking Jewzzard.
>>331669750
Its not a blank slate, its just a garbage can that is about to be cleared out. The setting is still convoluted garbage with the same convoluted storylines and the same 'one legion in all infinite realities also we can't die even when we're killed' bullshit.
>>331669586
>if they put in 30 instances and 15 raids no one would ever complain
It doesn't matter how much content gets put in, people will do them once and then bitch and cry about hving nothing to do, especially the people whopower through them as fast as possible and the people who never touch those parts of the game. Hell, every new content patch has people who live to speed through it as fast as humanly possible and then spend the rest of their time complaining about there being nothing to do.
>>331666409
You have AIDS.
>>331669903
I don't know, these types of decisions from Blizzard I will never understand. I personally prefer 2H frost on my DK, but oh fucking well.
>>331669791
>about 5 years too late
No, he covered that. I really wanted to be a DH in TBC because fuckin warglaives.
I rolled a Rogue just to get them, now I don't have to play this shitty wannabe DH class anymore.
>>331669586
>8 raids
Yeah, with shit for bosses. This isn't TBC. Do you not know how many autists are playing the game? Compare how good the average player is in a legacy server and how good the average player was in Vanilla and honestly tell me that you think a raid will last nearly as long now as it did when TBC was current.
>>331669691
Lay out in detail the two DPS specs Demon Hunters can have. Remember that they need to be separate and distinct and also fit with being a Demon Hunter as well as not be similar to other classes and specs. A list of moves, abilities, passives, and such will be needed as well.
>People still play WoW
>People will spend money on an expansion for a decade old game
Holy shit, how fucking pathetic.
>>331669903
At the time, it was clear that they intended one spec for tanking, one spec for leveling and "fun", and one spec for endgame raiding. Then the dilemma developed where players were turning all three specs into viable dps specs in certain situations, and since then they have been clamping down on DK class design. They really do not like it when people are playing a class in an unintended way.
>>331670220
I'll never understand the people who shit and belch and hoot about a geame solely becaus eof its age. It always feels like these comments are made by the youngsters who think anything older than the Xbone and PS4 = awful.
>>331666409
As a case with MMOs in general it significantly hinged on availability of friends in the game. If you had good guild that raided, joked around in the overworld like kyting satyr boss to Stormwind and did all sort of fun stuff together then you indeed had the greatest gaming experience of all time. If you played by yourself doing quests and BGs you had a very poor RPG experience.
>>331670197
Not that faggot but they should be rooted in Illidan (WC3) skillset. He melees, but he also mana burns as a ranged attack. There should be a ranged dps specialization which is largely drain-based, and builds up to metamorphosis for burst dps. Melee dps should be a close combat glasscannon - teleport in, burst as hard as you can, teleport out before you face your face smashed in.
>>331670437
It's called growing up and learning to adapt and try new things.
Also, I take it English isn't your first language so maybe it's best you stick to MMO's.
>>331670572
>mana burn
Priest, and also doesn't work on things without mana.
>ranged with drains
So an Affliction Warlock?
>remove a bunch of procs from ret paladins
>most alpha footage of rets I see is them auto attacking 90% of the fight
>holy is now a melee healing spec
Another expansion of playing my hunter. Thanks Blizzard
>>331668567
Your character looks like shit. It's like you went out of your way to find the worst combination of face, hair style and hair color.
>>331670698
>adapt
>implying older games are inherently bad
I'm guessing FNAF and Fallout 4 are fine because they weren't made 10 years ago.
>>331670197
Why should I do it? they managed to make 3 dps spec for rogues, they should be able to do it for DH. Shit, Druids have 4 specs.
A third spec could be a healer without healing spells, he heals through damage. An even more extreme Mistweaver.
>>331670720
>So an Affliction Warlock?
Well they already stole Metamorphosis from Demonologists, may as well go all the way.
>>331670698
>hurr if you play old games that means you don't play new games
I know you're trolling, but try to be intelligent with it or else you'll only show how much of a retard you are.
>hurr you didn't proofread your post for spelling mistakes that means you don't know English
Has nothing to do with the conversation nd also only shows how little you're trying.
>>331670829
Those aren't even remotely similar to MMO's. Dota 2 is pretty much the new WoW. LoL if you are desperate to eat shit.
>>331670728
>removing procs from ret
What. Is this real? Why would they take the procs away from the proc machine?
That was literally it's theme for 3+ expansions
>>331671005
>MOBAs
>remotely similar
If anything, you've strayed further from mmos. Are you thinking straight?
>>331671169
Same reason they got rid of button mashing from monk.
>>331670869
>Demon Huntes
>healing
>ROFL MAKE IT JUST LIKE THE MONK HEALING SPEC BUT EDGIER AND EXTREEEEEEEEEME!!
And you claim the people still playing the game are stupid.
>>331670910
>Demon Hunters stole Metamorphosis from Demonolgy Warlocks
You're from Bizzaro World, aren't you. Metamorphosis is a DH skill, Blizzard gave it to Demo Locks, because they didn't make DH playable, which NEVER fit the class and spec because Demo Locks CONTROL AND SUBJUGATE demons, they don't BECOME the demons.
>>331668308
>Fight against Kel Thuzad or 4H or anything beyound Maexxna - what percentage of WoW players at that time saw, hell even beat this content?
This has literally nothing to do with difficulty.
This is because you NEEDED gear from previous raids to do later ones. This made it difficult to get through the new raids because with 40 people, you needed to do catch up a lot.
Retail wow fixed this by letting you play easy catch up with gear between every raid. You can do new 5 man or use badges to get all the gear you need for the current raid.
>>331671281
What's the difference between doing PvE and PVP content in WoW to playing Dota 2? There's nothing more to MMO's now thanks to WoW, so you may as well be playing multiplayer games that have just as big of a community if not bigger.
>>331671336
>You're from Bizzaro World, aren't you. Metamorphosis is a DH skill, Blizzard gave it to Demo Locks, because they didn't make DH playable, which NEVER fit the class and spec because Demo Locks CONTROL AND SUBJUGATE demons, they don't BECOME the demons.
Illidan only gained metamorphosis because he ate guldan's skull. No other DH has attained that power.
I think the pruning is the right thing to do, for what I have seen so far of Legion, it is going to make for a much better gameplay for every class.
>>331671672
The Demon Hunters we play as are ones personally trained by Illidan.
>>331671672
>No other DH has attained that power
The WC3 demon hunter hero had it.
>>331671475
Might as well compare gaming as a whole to hitting a rock with a stick. If you want to say that an rpg is less related to an MMORPG than an ASSFAGGOT, anything goes.
>>331670728
>removing procs from ret
WHAT THE FUCK? WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO YOU, MY SON?I've pretty much only played ret paladin since BC up to cata and a little of WoD, saying they took away procs simply doesn't make sense, how does the fucking class work, now?Didn't the first fucking tier set in WoD have like 20 different proc conditions?
>>331670572
Everything to do with DH hunters has been bungled by Blizz in WoW
>fuck the illidari with fan fic teir writing in tbc 'No kael you are the demons'
>Don't include DH for 6 expansions so they give meta to locks
>Realise Locks having meta make you new class revel pointless so nerf demo to the ground a year before legions so the plebs forget about it and can be wowed again
>Release a 2 spec class with the DPS spec being a two button spec with fucked up crit interactions and the Tank spec being recycled vanilla bear tanks with a couple of less good blood spells.
It's almost so bad it's sad
>class pruning
>with the new abilities / talents they've put in and the artifact interaction
Each class is actually more distinct now in Legion dude. Confirmed for not actually looking into shit.
>>331671336
Other options could be ranged physical dps without a pet based on dots, melee caster that can burn through his mana quickly if he isn't careful.
>>331671919
>Liking procs unironically
Are you fucking serious? You should be freaking happy your class is not dependent on some fucking RGNANYMORE.
What in the actual fuck is wrong with you. Fuck, this is the dream Rets have been asking for years.
>>331672135
Procs are fun because you actually have to pay attention to what happens to your character and don't have a rigid script.
>>331671898
Because he was Illidan.
>>331672008
Dude, Kael fucked his own people on his quest to save them, that's not bad writing, dude lost his way by becoming addicted to magic near the end and thinking he could overthrow Illidan. When they made him come back in sunwell plateau was when they fucked him up entirely,
I agree with everything else you said though.
>>331672135
>I want a linear button sequence/rotation that I don't have to pay attention to at all
You want rets to become hunters, you're confirmed a faggot.
>>331672257
>RGN are in literally every fucking class
What are you fucking on about. RGN is pure cancer, specially when you depent on it to make enough DPS.
What do you mean by rigid script? Without RGN you are free to use abilities in a manner that most benefit the situation, making you more precise as your skill increases. It is literally fucking perfect, specially for PvP.
>>331672257
>Man I sure do hope my execute procs during the burn phase
You can have priority based play styles without procs. No one is trying to force set rotations but rare RNG is terrible.
>>331672008
>Realise Locks having meta make you new class revel pointless so nerf demo to the ground a year before legions so the plebs forget about it and can be wowed again
How is removing Meta nerfing Demo Locks? All it does for them is be a limited time damage boost. Actually summoning and controlling various demons with different mechanics and abilities is a major step up for the spec.
>>331672309
So Blizzard were lazy cunts who just re-skinned the hero characters with all the same abilities no matter what.
>>331672436
>I want a shinny shit on my screen that tells me to press that button without any control on how my character works
>I cannot into learning the dynamics of a class without RGN to adapt to every situation, based on my skill and knowledge.
Confirmed for PvE pleb.
>>331671898
And now these player demon hutners that illidan was secretly training also can transform.
The writing is completely stupid because they keep going back on things they said they wouldn't do. They never planned on making demon hunters playable, as exhibited by giving warlocks metamorphosis. They reneged on that because they're just trying to throw the most popular aspects of their lore at the game now to bring people back.
>>331672338
I can buy Kael going evil from feeding on fel magic, I don't buy that he would sell out everyone to KJ the demon responsible for creating the scourge the force that killed his people a fact Kael is fully aware of.
>>331672595
>playing minigames:^)
>>331670698
I guess the people who have been playing chess, soccer or a fucking instrument for years are pathetic faggots too?
WoD was so shitty... so unbelievably shitty that I fired up Everquest again. Fucking Everquest. A 17 year old game that i quit 14 years ago. I am playing on the Phinegal server and am having more fun than I had in WoW since cataclysm.
Im done with blizzard Im not even gonna buy legion.
>>331672578
>All these people who don't even play wow making statements as matter of fact without having an idea of what they are on about
/v/ is fucking cancer.
>>331672595
>WANTS BRAIN DEAD ROTATIONS
>CALLS SOMEONE PvE PLEB
holy shit anon, please stop
>>331667658
Except XIV had it's peak at 1m and already started dipping down.
>>331672257
>>331672451
>if I do low dps it's because I was unlucky, it wasn't because I am not good enough
>>331665963
What's wrong with that, exactly? Do you really need a billion abilities on every class when you don't use half of them?
>>331672545
He meant that Demo locks were nerfed in WoD and nobody played them for the whole expansion so now Blizz can rework them and sneakily throw Metamorphosis to another class. Also while Metamorphosis indeed was used as a burst its mechanic was made for a flexible use, blizzard were just too retarded to include spells that would push people to complex rotations that would require situational transformations.
>>331672815
Is anything in XIV even hard? I can't imagine that game would be too hard with the type of people that flock to it.
>>331672682
>NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO EVER CHANGE THEIR MINDS!! ONCE YOU SAY SOMETHING YOU MUST FOREVER ABIDE BY IT OR YOU MAKE ME SO FUCKING ANGRY!!
>>331668025
>a hell of a lot better looking.
ahahahhaahahahahahaha
>>331672772
>thinking anybody here who has an opinion on games has ever played them, ever.
Where. The fuck. Do you think you are?
>>331672682
It's not anymore stupid than Death Knights being able to wield frost and shit. Death Knights used to be orc souls put into human bodies by Warlocks but now Arthas creates them and Worgen can be Death Knights even though they established they were immune to it.
So fuck the writing, Blizzard just does what they want.
>>331672874
What's wrong with situational fun spells? what's wrong with having inferior spells that bad players will use, once again building the difference between who is a good player and who isn't?
>>331667747
It's pretty nice because you can play all the jobs on a single character, but the combat is a bit slower than WoW.
Not necessarily a bad thing, but just something to be aware of if you want to be pressing a button every second. It gets better at higher levels due to having more ogcd abilities, but it's still slower than WoW.
>>331672545
They nerfed demo locks last patch and made up some bullshit excuse that it was 'their turn' to be the worst spec in the game (and implied it was purely coincidental).
Im not mad they're taking meta from demo I like new demo I think it's cool, Im mad they fucked demo for so long because they bungled DH for so long and they want DH to seem more cool on release.
>>331672836
>>331672792
>You have control over Randomly generated numbers
>Depending on them for your DPS is not shit
>Having freedom of choice to adapt to situation, which requires knowledge of what your abilities are capable of equals brain dead rotations
I sincerely hope this is bait, Anons. What a fucking disappointment.
>>331672706
>WPvP
>Arenas
>Rbg's
>Minigames
Everything is a minigame in World of Warcraft if you want it to be.
>>331672792
You can have a priority based system on a class without RNG. Its literally what Arms Warriors are without the execute proc.
That proc brings nothing to the gameplay as it has no interesting synergy and has low proc rate. Its just the top of the priority chain except for Smash
>>331668216
Why not just have a blue pixel scream numbers at a larger red pixel?
>>331673010
Nice strawman
I'm just saying their writing looks terrible and the game's direction is everywhere because they keep trying to bring back things they've forgotten or never looked into. If they just added QoL improvements that didn't entirely destroy other aspects of the game, they wouldn't have this many people claiming their game is dead when it isn't even close to being dead.
The addicts keep this game alive, there is no question about that. People who keep quoting sub numbers are retarded.
>>331672921
>sneakily
They announced Meta was going back to DH when they first revealed Legion.
>>331673073
>Where. The fuck. Do you think you are?
Good fucking question.
>>331672978
Of course it isn't. It's a wow clone with 2x slower combat.
Legion actually seems to be the hardest WoW has been. For the simple fact that all fights are now puzzles. That's why blizzard pruned the classes so hard, they want them to be easier to play so people can pay attention to the fights and react to situations and not constantly focusing on their rotation.
>>331673095
Why would you bother shitting up an action bar, wasting a player's time, or shitting up their spellbook with that garbage?
What the fuck is a "fun spell"? Strictly inferior abilities are not "fun" in any way, shape or form.
>>331666578
>he plays mmos to be alone
Kek
>>331672921
Metamorphasis was fucking awful and caused demo to be one of the most popular specs to literally no one using it.
Summoning swarms of expendable demons is way better
>>331673314
2.5x times actually. God, that gcd is terrible.
>>331672978
T9 was hard, probably not by WoW standards, but it was certainly a pain in the ass to do with the shitty players of XIV.
>>331673197
>You can have a priority based system on a class without RNG
Exactly. It's what Paladins were in WOTLK. The amount of proc managing you have in WoD is ridiculous.
That first tier set in WoD may as well say "2pc: Believe in the heart of the cards for skill sto light up, 4pc: Go to an arcade and put a quarter in the whack a mole machine to increase your dps"
>>331673495
Unless you have ADD, it doesn't really matter that much.
How in the fuck do I get into this game? Should I start now or just wait until legion drops?
Also where are some good beginner or endgame guides?
>>331669023
I kept getting kicked for asking how to do a fight. It was annoying
>>331673309
My point was never that it was bad demo was losing meta.
Its bad Blizz gutted Demo for a whole year (and lied about why they did it) so no one would play it so it feels like a 'fresh' mechanic when they drop DH's which is a best underhanded and a wost an accounting driven cash grab devoid of an form of integrity.
One could also argue that is shows a lack of foresight they gave demo meta in the first place when DH has been the most requested class since wow was released.
>>331673603
It makes it piss-easy and boring.
>>331673802
Go ahead and play the free starter edition to identify which class you like the A E S T H E T I C of.
>ITT people bitch about ability pruning despite the WoW team having brought most of the abilities back already as optional skills to learn
If you don't want flavor spells you don't learn them, if you do you go to your trainer and get taught them.
What the fuck are you idiots bitching about?
>>331673802
You should not bother. The game is shit and the only people even considering playing are addicts or die-hard Blizzdrones.
>>331673885
Not really, you either know your rotation or you don't. Pressing a button every second isn't particularly more difficult than pressing a button every 2 seconds.
>>331673931
Shut up and go away with your facts, we're here to bitch and complain and you can't stop us.
>>331673806
Well that wasn't me then.
I took great joy in going through the fight in detail. Have to live up to the reputation of female tauren players etc.
Is anyone else just waiting for the TBC servers? PlayTBC has a April 14th release date. Corecraft will probably release when my kid's kid is snorting my ashes in VR anime hell.
This is actually going to revive the game. In a world of MOBA players, having more than 5-6 abilities is needlessly complex and annoying. Always sucked that you needed 50 hotkeys. They are doing good to reign the game in and make it manageable. The few vocal guys will cry sure as you can see here, but overall this is going to be a positive change for the game.
>>331673931
Can I get rid of spells? I don't like having Ancient Portal: Dalaran anymore.
>>331674278
It's hard to forget stuff you know. Specially what you want to forget.
>>331674254
Is Nost planning on eventually rolling TBC out? I've been playing on it and I like the high pop.
>>331674115
>priority based rotations
>1 sec GCD vs. 2.5 sec doesn't matter
Except that in one you have to make a decision every second and in the other you do it every 2.5 seconds.
>>331674496
yes
>>331674636
>implying it's hard to see if a buff/debuff is running or not
>>331674695
That's exciting for me. I quit at before Naxx and I've heard TBC was the pinnacle of the game.
>>331671357
I feel like that's a bad thing at the same time though
Being in on the ground floor so that you can start at one raid and build up to progressively harder ones feels like way more of an accomplishment when the gear gets progressively better
If you can just get equivalent items to the last raid from a 5 man, the whole last raid feels like it was pointless.
>>331674872
TBC had great leveling zones, absolutely fantastic raids and lots of content.
>>331669414
>From playing in the beta, Demon Hunters are smooth as fuck
The drakes in the last phase of the Malygos fight have a more complex rotation than Demon Hunters. Demon Hunters are literally babby-tier.
>You will never be obsessed about the fate of an MMO after you "quit and moved on" like most idiots on /v/
>>331675250
Isn't that a good thing? Aren't there going to be thousands of boosted Demon Hunters running around?
>>331674819
>Implying that making a decision in 1 second is not harder then making it in 2.5
Add on top of that Skill speed being shit on most classes so even high end you still have slow GCDs.
>>331675250
Could you imagine if they made the class hard to play? People would be furious.
You have to remember that Blizzard caters to the lowest denomination of player.
>>331675705
This is really all you need to look at to see why the game is failling.
The same thing is happening in hearthstone. New players are completely forgotten and their means of approaching the game are entirely not implemented.
>>331675316
It's because none of the people here have actually moved on, they're just waiting for the game to have content again so they can resub. You can bet almost everyone here will buy Legion.A lot of them went and tried FFXIV and then complained it wasn't the exact same game.
>>331675420
>implying that with the billion addons WoW has, it's not easy as shit
>>331675705
And the problem isn't that the game doesn't teach you how to play. It just gives you no incentive to figure it out because it never challenges you on any level. The game has turned into a single player game that throws everything you want at you as fast as possible.
>>331675927
>>331675705
So new players are too stupid to make a level 1 character and work from there?
>>331676157
Why would they make a level 1 when they get given a level 90?
>>331676157
see>>331676215
When shit is handed to you, you don't get time to learn or feel motivation to learn.
>>331668567
you post the same ugly fucking characters in every thread, no one cares about your ebin barbarian humans with ugly disney models
>>331676157
You learn nothing from a level 1 character.
>>331676157
Even if you level the old fashioned way you just solo 1 to 15 then AOE grind dungeons from 15 to 90. You can literally play 1 to 90 and never learn a thing about how to play your class because you just zerg everything.
>>331665413
You're forgetting achievements. Literally thousands of hours of content that most will never finish
>>331676419
>>331676281
>>331676215
So it doesn't matter at all what anyone does, then, no one knows how to play the game right.
>>331666684
Basically
Let's say you're an Arcane Mage
You get Arcane shit, but not Fire or Frost related shit.
>>331673379
What are you? Some strictly pve hardcore raid dps faggot who only gets his kicks by topping the dps meter?
Mind control is fun, utility is fun, crowd control is fun, changes to movement and positioning are fun.
>>331669526
>DOUBLE JUMP
to do what with
gimick to the max
if you wanna fly roll a goblin engineer shammy
>>331676460
Yeah rep grinds are really compelling content.
>>331676157
regardless of starting at level 1 or level 90 you'll still run around 1-2 shotting any mob with almost any ability. either way you'll still learn nothing
>>331676529
Is that why they made Ice Barrier baseline for mages?
>its still cool to pretend WoW is shit
Its the same shit every expansion and its only getting better.
>>331666137
>wow doesn't have a cash shop
anon...
>>331672978
Yeah, the last raid tier had 2 fights that were ridiculously overtuned to the point it was breaking up groups trying to beat them, and on top of that they weren't even fun. One of them was just mechanically broken to where cheesing it became the preferred way to do it.
>>331676450
Not to mention nobody will EVER speak to each other in those groups because you're just chain pulling 5 packs at a time and AOEing them down so there's no communication required. Every run is dead silent and you're doing that over and over and over and over to level. It's really the most excruciating grind in all of gaming.
>>331676614
Pretty much. They couldn't be arsed to give each spec their own version.
>>331676657
>getting better
I play this regularly and youre full of shit
>Everything outside of endgame raiding feels so hollow and pointless. It's a shame since mythic raiding has been a lot of fun if you find a guild of non-autsists. God help anyone that's still stuck on progression this late into HFC.
>>331671336
If the game was to get a new healing spec, it should be Mage.Time-control healing powers.
>>331676305
>waaaaah stop posting WoW stuff in WoW threads it makes me so mad i need to bitch about it incessantly
>>331676215
>>331676281
I refuse to believe that anyone is stupid enough to use their 90 boost and play it from level 90.
That would be like starting a 10 chapter game from level 9. I can't even pick up a 10 chapter game and continue from chapter 2 (after having not played in a long while), I have to restart so I know what the fuck I'm doing.
>>331662551
Isn't it dead already?
>>331676795
>Not to mention nobody will EVER speak to each other in those groups
I don't see the problem here. I deal enough with people trying to fucking talk to me at work.
>>331676998
it would probably help if blizzard themselves weren't basically saying chapters 1-9 are bullshit and they're just helping you get to the real story hidden in chapter 10
>>331676573
>lvl 90
>one/two-shotting anything at the same level
Everything in WoD takes several seconds to kill even when you have high-level gear.
