What do you guys think of Vincent's limit breaks?
How can we make Berserk abilities/job classes worth using?
Very few limit breaks in FF7 are any good if you ask me.
>>330877243
I was bretty gud at Tifa's slot machine one.
>>330877354
Sure, I guess it can be good if you have high strength, but I really only think Omnislash is actually good tbqh.
If you get Knights of Round, it's literally better to just mime that shit with the characters that have pleb tier limit breaks.
>>330877502
you're only talking about the very end of the game, where abilities barely matter since you can just repeatedly tap A to win except for a small handful of bosses, for whom you just KOTR to win.
limit breaks are pretty useful throughout the vast majority of the game up until you are stupidly overpowered
Berserker jobs are generally not worth using, but I heard FF5 berserkers were actually quite good. Mind you, lots of jobs in FF5 are quite good, so it still pales in comparison, but it's not outright shit.
>>330877143
>How can we make Berserk abilities/job classes worth using?
Premium Heart, Berserk Ring, Double-Cut=Counter, Counter Attack
You could end the entire world with that combo.
It's just another case of
>let's make a cool gimmick!
>let's make sure to not make it too powerful or useful
>>330877143
Did you play ff12? Berserker was broken as fuck and many strats for fast Yizamat times and low level runs involved berserker with support.
>>330877243
True, but gameplay can't all be about minmaxing. Context needs to be provided for certain special moves.
>>330877354
I'm utter shit at that one.
>>330877850
Yeah I liked Berserkers in FFV; I always remember being utterly powerless in the face of Atomos. I got pissed, changed my whole team to Berserkers and wiped the floor with him. I think there's some sort of value in the bonus you get from relinquishing control, but I want to figure out a way you could make that work in a modern turn-based game like Bravely Default or something.
>>330877963
Again, the game has to provide context. I know everyone is a "hardcore gamer" minmaxer these days but it's the fun shit that gets kids and imaginative people into the game in the first place. I'm certain there is a way to make abilities like this useful without being overpowered; that's what I'm trying to find out.
>>330877143
It would work better now than then, since now you aren't controlling all the party members at once.
(At least I hope it works better now, since I always liked to use Vincent despite his crappy limit).
>>330877143
Vincent's limit breaks are like shit versions of Gau's rages
at least Gau had more variety and didn't need a gauge to fill up
>>330877502
Meteor Rain can almost kill Demon Gate in 1 hit can't it?
I never actually bothered to figure out what Vincent's limit breaks were and just never used them. My first playthrough of FFVII was the child-friendly "grind till the enemies die faster" and losing control of Vincent wasn't cool so I never bothered. I used to use him because I thought he look badass but holy shit he looks silly.
>>330877143
Any "random" type ability in a strategy games is either going to be bad because it's random, or overpowered to make up for it's randomness.
So, I see this mechanic existing solely as a "for fun" option.
>>330878453
>Meteor Rain can almost kill Demon Gate in 1 hit can't it?
wut, someone need to corroborate that, sounds a bit unlikely
>>330877243
most characters have a couple that are useful
vincent's and cait sith's were garbage though
>>330878642
cait siths is the most powerful in the game
easily
Umaro rapes the Cultists Tower.
>>330878642
bruh, cait sith's limit break is literally game breakingly good
>>330878453
demon gate only gas 7k hp
>>330878580
I can see that. Do you feel the same way about Geomancers' Terrain ability? That's less random since it's based on whatever environment you're fighting in.
>>330878743
Umaro is a great example too because you can sort of control what he does by equipping him with relics. Maybe some sort of out of battle menu would make the mechanic more reliable?
>>330878629
Wait, I think it was Red Dragon that I used it on, then it died very shortly after.
>>330878851
*10k
>>330878865
red dragon is weak to everything, even odin kills it
>>330877143
Just theme them all and make them like...hollywood and japanese monster inspired
OR they can just make him more and more monsterous till he's some horrible chaos being who he summons for ultimate attacks.
Berserk is hard to build a class around since it's both a buff and a debuff. It can be a buff when you use it on an physical ally who doesn't really rely on special attacks, like Steiner. However, it can be a debuff when used on a weak spellcaster, such as Vivi. Building a class around the idea of a physical powerhouse you can't control is tough to keep balanced.
>>330879094
I'm particularly looking at Vincent's though because he's not a true Berserker - Berserk is normally a status that allows you to only use standard attack at 1.5x damage. Instead, you trade control of him for a much more powerful unit with better stats and moveset, including magic, but you can't choose what they do or use recovery magic or items with them. Perhaps you could "regain control" every ten turns or something like that?
>>330879580
It'd be interesting to add some kind of "rage/chaos" mechanic:
>You can choose the unit's action
>There's a chance of the unit doing something different
>The meter fills up whenever the unit does what you want and empties down when it does a random action
>Fuller meter increases the chance of the unit acting randomly
>>330877143
This is by far the best and probably most recent example I can think of a "random effect" character ability
So to get Bug style you have to set Mega Man up with a glitch in his ability grid for a few battles; when active you can start the battle with a random effect from a free HP barrier, invincibility, HP drain, bugged movement and max/minimum buster stats. It actually really helps reinforce the narrative of being in a computer through the mechanics.
>>330878852
Geomancer for Tactics was a gigantic JP sink, since you had to aquire all the terrain types, if I remember correctly.
>>330877143
Vincent is a case of just not getting enough bang for your buck compared to shit like Omnislash, All Creation, Highwind, Ungermax, etc.
The idea was probably that you relinquished control for a beefy enemy with stronger attacks, but you didn't really get that, and it certainly wasn't worth the control.
He probably should have had haste and mighty guard built-in.
>>330881057
I think it would have been enough if he kept the effects of passive materia like 4x-Cut and the like.
