Why did he become a monster? he used to be a hero
shitty meme series
"Either you die a hero or you live long enough to become the villain" - moot,2015
>>330631486
He don't exist
>>330631972
>moot
Who?
>>330632125
He was the inventor of steambook.
He got cucked that's why
He was a liar and a con, and ultimately FAILED The Boss.
Venom was better DESU.
>>330632334
Whooo would post a picture of a brick wall like that?
>>330632334
How can a brick wall get cucked?
>>330631486
Kojima retconned the fuck of him
OH NO
NOT ME
>>330631486
Someone's gotta do the dirty work so that the world can continue turning.
The Boss is the reason for everything bad that happened in this series.
He's a monster only in the eyes of the public.
That's the entire point of TPP.
>>330631486
The became obsessed with revenge, stopped wanting to fulfill the Boss' vision, and lost everything in the process.
>>330632442
I can't believe they put my favorite Nirvana song in MGSV!
>>330632442
I
NEVER
LOST
CONTROL
>>330631486
He wanted to make sure soldiers were never used and tossed aside like the Boss was again so he joined Zero to steal the Philosopher's legacy to fund the Patriots. Using his image, Zero made Big Boss into an icon that the world could unite under, exploding his image and legend to immense proportions, creating the myth of the legendary soldier.
Big Boss quits the Patriots to carry on his own interpretation of what the Boss wanted. But then he learns that what she wanted was for people to respect the will and choices of others and that in her final moments she cast aside her life as a soldier, and as a result, him too.
So he gets butt-blasted and follows his own path; going along with Zero's plan he uses a soldier as a surrogate to build his global image while he makes Outer Heaven in secret, in the process becoming no better than Zero himself.
So basically he ended up drinking his own koolaid and thought his shit didn't stink and had to get his shit pushed in twice by his son before he knew any better.
>>330631486
bad writing
>>330632539
He had already forsaken The Boss's will by the end of Peace Walker.
TPP was him just pissing on her grave.
used to be an hero
>>330631486
>Implying there are any heroes in war
Do you even Metal Gear?
He was heavily misinterpreted, just like The Boss.
>>330631486
>hero
>doing his job
>monster
>doing what he wants
>>330632801
heroes on both sides
>>330632680
Hey look, SOMEONE actually payed attention in MGSV!!
>>330632927
>There are heroes on both sides
>One side is literally a military composed entirely of murdering robots lead by an evil wizard that shoots lightning
Well... uh...
>>330632927
>>330631486
I think about this when I play undertale. Without a doubt I can say Toby made a game that felt so similar to mgs in story telling. Doing things where you're like nah, ain't gonna happen. But it does happen. Or you push the game to its limit and what you expect to do something the creator didn't plan on you doing is actually something they planned on you doing. Man the similarities.
>>330633208
This has nothing to do with anything. Stop shitposting.
>>330632612
i fucking hate you
>>330632801
Ocelot is a hero
I can't believe what he did to Venom
Fuck Cuck Boss
VENOM DID NOTHING WRONG
>>330633326
It can if you think about how venom snake is like character. Both go through good and evil.
>>330634179
Chara* my bad.
>>330632359
Venom is also a lotcuter.
>>330632359
>venom was better
True. Do you think BB would have been as soft as Venom was in TPP? I think he would have been more brutal in terms of getting shit done.
>>330634643
Much more brutal
TPP revealed John for the right self righteous prick he was
Just listen to the LES Infants Terribles tapes, he outright despises Solid and Liquid and refuses to acknowledge as his sons.
Having a real father in their lives would have done them a lot of good, especially for Eli.
>>330633762
Was I supposed to come away from MGSV wondering why he served Big Boss? His competency blows Big Boss out of the water.
>>330635075
That's quite the moral crusade you have going there.
A mean really? A man doesn't acknowledge the product of his extracted DNA as his sons after being against the whole thing from the start? What a fucking villain! Such an evil evil bastard!
>>330631486
The plot demanded it.
>>330631486
Big Boss tells you himself in MG2. He couldn't live without war. He also happened to be such an egotistical douchebag he wanted to impose his own shortcomings onto the rest of the world.
>>330632359
>Venom was better
Not really. He was less manipulative, I guess, and maybe less of an arrogant prick. But he was still into the Outer Heaven thing. I don't know why people overlook this. Even if he was just following orders and didn't care that much about it personally he's still a cunt.
>>330632429
How do you figure? Aside from Venom Snake's dumb, contrived existence, MGS3/PW/MGSV don't really change the core of his character. He was always a manipulative and self-centered guy. Always. That was the point of him from the beginning.
>>330632359
what do you see in venom? he's got no room for character and is just a sleeve for self-inserting who just goes along with big boss' dickery at the end anyway.
>tfw just got to Chapter 2
>greeted with mandatory replays of old missions to advance through what is apparently the last legs of the story
I'm losing my motivation to play this game FAST. What do, /v/
>>330635075
Then why did he act the way he did to solid in mgs4?
>>330632359
Venom was a good guy
>>330635667
I dropped it once chapter 2 started
>We never got to see Big Boss' descent into villainy
>We'll never see a chapter titled "Nuclear" that starts his descent
>Said chapter will never have Nuclear play in the credits after Big Boss went Nuclear in some fashion
>>330635195
Considering he's willing to throw away the life of his best and most trusted soldier, his malice towards the Twin Snakes is kinda hypocritical.
Like how are you going to deny their humanity when you fucking stripped every shred from a real fucking soldier with a real life who trusted you 100%?
>>330635892
>We never got to see Big Boss' descent into villainy
PW ends with Big Boss affirming that Outer Heaven would act without any moral or ideological consideration. It's a more passive stance than what he would adopt later, but everything's in place.
You get to outright see his villainy in action in MG1 and MG2 anyway. I'm not saying that MGSV's trailers weren't misleading, but we already have this shit anyway. His "descent" happened with MGS3's ending.
>>330635623
Venom actually gave a shit about soldiers.
He practically loves Quiet and was a better father to Eli than Big Cuck could have ever been.
>>330635667
The story ends in chapter 1. Seriously. Chapter 2 is an exegesis on the series and a breakdown of chapter 1.
>>330635892
That's a lot of hypothetical never Evers to be upset over.
We saw Big Boss betrayal first Hand, we were the fucking victims and results of said betrayal.
>>330636239
>quiet ditched him
>only fatherly thing he's done for eli is smack him around a few times and gave him the choice to kill himself or get napalmed
alrighty then
>>330636069
His descent is hinted at in MGS3 and future implied, never outright shown.
>>330632612
Spotted the b8.
>>330636513
He also gave him a fucking home that wasn't an African conflict zone.
Big boss would have just IMMIEDIETELY killed him, and Venom actually does try to connect with Eli, not much but the effort was there.
>>330636565
Because it didn't need to be. There really wasn't much to show between the note MGS3 ended on and what MG1 and MG2 outright present and say about him.
>>330636239
>big cuck
kek
>>330636513
Quiet ditched him because she activated her parasites and was going to die, she didn't want the man she loves to see her die in such a sorry state.
Stop being a contrarian tryhard.
>>330636330
>>330635814
So...should I keep playing or just watch the rest online or some shit?
I really wanna be convinced to keep going but damn man
>>330636734
>>330636069
One trailer for Phantom Pain had slates that literally read:
>but we have yet to learn
>why a legendary hero
>has sunk to evil
>the series greatest mystery
>will finally be revealed
Kojima literally said it was the series greatest mystery you fucking faggot.
>>330636734
I agree with you, and that's why the true necessity of TPP was to explain the origins of S3, the true nature of Big Boss deception and explain how BB died twice.
>>330636839
i do understand that, i just think it did nothing for venom's character. but even a quiet exit could technically not happen if venom/the player chose to kill quiet instead.
>>330636239
>was a better father to Eli than Big Cuck could have ever been.
He let him hang around his mercenary base and was fairly patient with him, but I don't see Big Boss acting all that much differently were he in his stead. It's not like Venom was hanging around playing frisbee or teaching him how to fish or something.
>>330636956
I enjoyed it, so to each their own I guess.
>>330636979
But anyone that paid any attention to the series knew that it wasn't a mystery and never has been you dullard.
>>330637002
>explain how Big Boss died twice.
This didn't need an explanation either, though, because MG1's ending suggests that Big Boss didn't die. it leaves it open to interpretation, then MG2 comes along and confirms his survival. It was never a plot hole and it never needed to be explained.
>>330636979
He sunk to evil because it was fucking necessary and a major theme of TPP is the blurred lines between good and evil in times of desperation.
Big Boss honestly at heart probably still is a good guy, but his thinking process was 100% "Ends justify the means", which is the true birth of evil. Nothing good ever happens when choosing between the "percieved" lesser of two evils when the entire world wants you dead. I don't blame him, hell I would probably do the same, but he is still accountable for immense misery, misfortune, pain and death for the Diamond Dogs, a company he once claimed to love.
>>330637190
Oh sure, Dr. Madnar used his SUPR SEKRIT KEKNOLOGY to bring back a corpse Swiss cheesed with bullets including multiple shots to the head, both arms and legs cut off and being burned alive.
Some elaboration was still needed, you short sighted imbecile.
>>330635180
His competency is one of the points. He was probably the smartest, most cunning character in the series, but he idolized the legend of big boss. He's a literal victim of memes.
>>330637503
And how is that any more weird or elaborate than the idea that Gray Fox was cobbled back together? Or how the fuck did Liquid Snake survive everything he did?
Big Boss was a legendary soldier. Solid Snake was in a hurry to get the fuck out of Outer Heaven. His survival isn't that farfetched given many other things in the series, and MG2 even provides a slightly-handwaved explanation. Or do you really think that Venom Snake's existence doesn't create far more questions itself?
Big Boss's survival didn't need to be explained. Get over it.
>legendary soldier
>the entire point of his mission is to be unseen, to the point that he was never there at all
>for some reason everyone knows who is and he holds the same fame as A list celebrities
Oh, Kojima...
>>330637701
Liquid died in one game
Venom dies in 1313 with his entire base and military
And even if his survival didn't need explaining(you're relying on a bunch of text from MG1+2 with characters that are never mentioned ever again, Machine GunKid, Madnar, and you're trying to tell me MGSV is unneeded elaboration? Lolok), the truth nature of his deception and falling out with Zero beyond refusing to have codec sex calls) with him, definitely needed to be.
Along with the extent of his falling out with Kazuhira.
>>330637526
>victim of memes
Shit you're right. He spent his life helping to build up another guy's legend when he was ultimately the bigger deal. That's actually kind of clever.
>>330638018
I mean the entire Snake Eater mission is still supposed to be disavowed, and BB is on TV getting medals from the president?!
Does Kojambles have alzheimers? Does he just forget these stories AS he's writing them? Jesus christ.
>>330638018
>>330638418
The world only thinks he killed the traitorous Boss, pls pay attention!
>>330638418
The Sniper that killed Osama Bin Laden has a bunch of operations that are still seemed highly classified and yet s fucking movie was made about him.
>MGS could've ended with Solid Snake instead of this overglorified faggot
Venom was ok but the prequels were a mistake
>>330637190
>But anyone that paid any attention to the series knew that it wasn't a mystery and never has been you dullard.
Yet Kojima wrote:
>but we have yet to learn
>why a legendary hero
>has sunk to evil
>the series greatest mystery
>will finally be revealed
The creator and writer of the series literally said it.
>b-b-b-but m-muh head c-canon
Holy fuck you're pathetic.
>>330638183
>with characters that are never mentioned ever again
Who the fuck cares? MG1 and MG2 are still canon aside from where later games directly contradict them.
>truth nature of his deception
Not sure what this means.
>and falling out with Zero
This was thoroughly covered in MGS4. It didn't need to be explained either, really.
>Along with the extent of his falling out with Kazuhira.
PW was a mistake too, but I'll agree with this. Miller's relationship was Big Boss was the biggest indicator that Kojimbo had yet-another-Big-Boss-prequel in mind.
>>330635697
He finally realized he was a big fuckup
>>330638585
Kojima also says things like Solid Snake doesn't have real feelings, and things like he intended to end the series after MGS2, and then MGS3, and then MGS4. It was not a mystery. TPP didn't even tell us anything we didn't already know anyway, aside from Venom Snake's existence which is laughably minor plot-wise. It has nothing to do with head canon. You're just remarkably unobservant.
>>330638585
That wasn't a Kojima made trailer.
>>330638679
>MG1+2 are still cannon
I know, I'm not arguing that, but let's not pretend MG was made with the entire MGS series planned.
>True nature of his deception
How he managed to both become the most hated militia leader in the world and build both a decoy Outer Heaven and the real one while planning his Zanzibarland uprising.
Also TPP was always going to be needed because BB goes into autism mode and disarms all the worlds nukes, how the fuck was that going to be explained without a new entry?
>>330638527
>>330638527
>I don't understand the difference between the 60s and the modern information age
We were never supposed to know any of the names ofor SEAL team 6, let alone the name of the guy that supposedly killed him, but in the modern erase it's inevitable information will leak, especially when there's money to be made.
On the flips side many Vietnam spec open missions are still classified, with the operators keeping their secrets to the grave. Likewise, lesser known current SEAL missions than the Bin Laden raid are still unknown to the public. You've never heard of them, because you're not supposed to.
BB being a famous soldier is still a huge plot hole, and shows Kojima's complete misunderstanding of all things military, as well as basic history
why are there so many snakes
why are there two orcelot
He was never a hero. He was a product manufactured by Zero. Eva and Ocelot did the dirty work and set him up to hit a homerun, Zero made sure that he was turned into a hero for killing his mentor who let herself die at his hands. Skullface and XOF had to go in and clean up messes behind him. He is a very good leader and great at getting people to follow him but how much of that is because of the propaganda cooked up by The Patriots? When Big Boss is put out of commission, a good soldier from MSF is able to completely replace him.
The man Big Boss didn't come close to the legend but he did find a way to profit off that legend.
>>330639191
BB was really only famous in military and intelligence circles until either PW or definitely TPP.
He's basically a Castro like figure during the 80s, there would probably be daily breaking news updates about him and his rogue army. That's where he became a villain, his portrayal in the American media.
>>330639089
MGS1 wasn't made with the entire MGS series planned. None of the games were. The only indication that Big Boss "dies" in MG1 is that his sprite disappears. Then we get text from him stating that he'll meet Snake again, leaving it ambiguous whether or not he survived. MG2 confirms that he does. You know who else had a sprite disappear in a Metal Gear that later turned out to be alive? Gray Fox and Madnar.
>decoy Outer Heaven and the real one
The first Outer Heaven wasn't exactly a decoy. Venom Snake was the physical "Big Boss" in the fortress, but the Outer Heaven Uprising was his legitimate first attempt at taking out the Patriots and creating his Outer Heaven wet dream. He worked with Venom Snake secretly while in command of FOXHOUND. Solid Snake turned out to be a little more competent than anyone could have guessed, Venom got wrecked, Outer Heaven was taken out, and Big Boss--presumed dead--carried on with Zanzibar.
>>330639191
That is such blatant bullshit. You think we know or have access to everything? Son there are projects and plots going on that would make your head spin. You can't even find out what Obama had for breakfast, you think actual secrets aren't being kept?
>>330639191
You underestimate how pervasive journalism can be.
>>330639471
>I'm drunk and didn't actually read the post
>>330639219
Ocelot couldn't bear to be without his husbando Big Boss, so he made a bunch of clones of him so that he'd never be alone.
>>330639886
THIS is the true answer.
>>330639360
Basically this. I think people are probably annoyed that Kojima rammed it home even harder in V with Venom's existence. I don't exactly like it, but I understand that Kojima was just expanding on what was said about BB in MGS4 even if it was badly done.
