What is the Mario equivalent of Knuckles Chaotix?
Virtual Boy Wario Land
>>324193578
that game is actually good tho
>>324194715
Is Knuckles Chaotix a bad game?
>>324194819
People didn't like it because it wasn't a Sonic game. The game is fine, even if it isn't the best game on the 32x.
>>324195167
knuckles wasn't popular back then?
>>324195848
It doesn't play like a Sonic game.
>>324193151
Luigi's Mansion? Wario Land?
>>324195167
It pretty much is Sonic, just with a couple odd mechanics that throws it for a loop. No less Sonic than Sonic CD anyways.
>>324194819
Most people just never played it, because who the fuck owned a Sega 32x?
>>324193151
With all the collections and Sonic games on Virtual Console and other similar things why hasn't this game ever gotten a re-release? It wasn't the best but I enjoyed it a lot, especially that sexy soundtrack.
>>324194819
It's bad. Level design sucks assdicks all the way. Aesthetics and music are godly.
>>324196776
Just overlooked, I suppose. Wait, was it really never in one of the hundreds of Sonic Collection packs? That really is strange.
>>324196901
Pretty sure it's not, I know it's not in Mega Collection or Gems Collection (though artwork is in the gallery for Gems Collection).
>>324196796
I gotta agree. The level design was ass. Partners was a neat idea, but kind of wonky to control.
>>324196248
>no less Sonic than the best Sonic
I don't understand.
>>324197660
My point is Sonic CD also had experimental mechanics that weren't a part of any other Sonic game prior, or after. Just like Knux Chaotix.
>best
I'm just gonna let that one slide.
>>324196385
Seriously what the fuck is this
It's like their game system is one of those big Transformers made from little Transformers combined together
>>324194819
It's kind of bad. Control is iffy but fun, level design is raw ass. Speed Slider is almost good, Botanic Base is iffy but decent, Marina Madness is a fucking mess, Amazing Arena is a fucking mess, Techno Tower is 5 acts of "go up," it's not good.
Bosses are okay. Final boss is lame except the arena looks cool. Special stages are iffy -- they look cool, and are kind of fun, but they're annoying as shit from the fourth or fifth onward.
visuals and sound are 10/10 excellent though, it's one of the more polished things on the 32X, and it is kind of fun
it's blatantly unfinished though, you can tell that Sega wanted to work on it more
I remember hearing that it was originally a Saturn project that got pulled to the 32X.
but the only reason to get one of those machines is for fucking Virtua Racing Deluxe which is probably the most polished 32X game and is pretty damn fun (and has much more playable framerate than the Genesis version, along with more tracks, better audio, higher resolution graphics (Genesis version runs at 256x224, and IIRC isn't even fullscreen then, 32X version is 320x224 fullscreen), and more color)
also, maybe Space Harrier on 32X, almost perfect port other than a few slight framerate drops
>>324198315
I love that though, it's so fucking sexy seeing a fully decked out Sega tower. It's like a small plastic temple.
>>324194819
yes. imagine a genisus sonic, but with much worse level design, enemy design and you have to lug around another character that it literlly tethered to you
>>324197860
>I'm just gonna let that one slide.
Why, you're implying it isn't? Are you fucking stupid?
>>324199426
On the contrary, I have good taste.
>>324199426
CD's stage design is too fucking chunky to be the best. It's deliberately chunky, but out of all the Sonic games, it's got the least "flow" to them, where you're moving smoothly and reacting to shit and keeping your momentum.
CD tries to hard stop the player more than any other Sonic.
also, Wacky Workbench is a 1/10 level
>>324196776
Not good, it is also not canon.
>>324195897
But it does.
>>324199702
This explains it really well, actually. Trying to find the exact area where you're allowed to get enough momentum to time travel is not that fun.
>>324199727
>not canon
>implying the Chaotix aren't canon
>>324199994
The Chaotix were recreated and reintroduced in Sonic Heroes.
>>324199994
This was really surprising actually. I don't know why Chaotix are the only previously un-accounted for legacy characters Sega decided to unearth at random.
>>324199702
What would you call a good sonic game then?
>>324200198
To make a fourth team in Heroes.
Does Yoshi's Universal Gravitation/Topsy Turvy count?
>>324199727
>>324199994
>le canon meme
Fuck off with this bullshit already, call it for what it is, OFFICIAL. Canon are those shits that they used to fire up in wars, otherwise, back to >>>/a/ with you guys.
>>324200314
I don't even know why 4 teams was necessary. Playing through the same levels 3 times was already too much.
>>324200198
>EGM: Team Chaotix's gameplay is quite different than the other three teams'. Why did you decide to bring back these characters and give them fun, silly goals like rounding up hermit crabs?
>TI: In my mind, I didn't bring back the Team Chaotix characters from the past -- instead, they're new characters who happen to fit into the game. I wanted to create at least one team that was totally different from how Team Sonic talks and acts. Those three characters, Charmy, Espio, and Vector... they're so unique in their actions, personalities, and goals. They add a lot of flavor and variety to the overall picture. There's also the fact that those characters have never been used by Sonic Team -- we weren't involved with Knuckles Chaotix; some other internal sega Development team did that. So it's not a matter of bringing up old characters... we recreated those characters from the ground up. We want Sonic to be Sonic, and for the others to be supporting characters. I'm very happy with the way Team Chaotix turned out, so I hope they'll be brought back to another title in the future. You'll see more of them!
https://web.archive.org/web/20040330042803/http://www.egmmag.com/article2/0,2053,1507899,00.asp
>>324200523
>Playing through the same levels 3 times was already too much.
That's probably why, which is why most of the Chaotix levels were mission based as opposed to race to the end.
>>324199727
>Not good
A lot of the collections had mediocre to bad Sonic games in them. Mega Collection has 3D Blast which people say are bad and Gems Collection has Sonic R, Fighters & a time trial of Sonic Labyrinth in them. You don't have to agree with it being good necessarily but Knuckles' Choatix is better than previous ones I listed so I don't really see that being a reason.
>Implying canon matters
A lot of Sonic lore is retconned and fucked with, I doubt they put much care into what's canon.
>>324198315
>>324198597
I really do wonder how things would have turned out if Sega of America's "keep making add-ons for Genesis" strategy had been followed in stead of Sega of Japan's "MORE CONSOLES, MORE MONEY" approach.
any good romhacks for Knux' Chaotix?
>>324200269
Sonic 3 is pretty good about this, and S&K is (almost) better. Both games try to keep the player moving, they still have a lot of platforming involved, solid enemy placement, large and intricate levels.
They have one really stupid level in each (Carnival Night act 2, which is long as shit for no good reason and has the barrel (which wasn't a problem for me, but it is poor design), and Sandopolis act 2,which isn't actually that bad, but it's annoying).
Sonic 2 is almost ace, except Mystic Cave onward has a lot of bullshit (Metropolis is a long, slow stage with bullshit enemies like the stars (and you can get stuck on the fucking bounce tunnels, Sky Chase is a cool idea but kind of boring, Wing Fortress is a bit sloppy).
Sonic 1 has every other level not having any flow at all, which is a shame (Marble is pretty okay though, and I enjoy bits of Scrap Brain, Labyrinth can fuck off though). The fast stages are kind of easy, other than a few minor bits of spike ball bullshit in Spring Yard. It's okay.
>>324200976
Sonic R is fucking great. The only issue is that it's short as fuck (like, within the first hour after you get used to the controls, you'll probably have beaten the game), but the visuals are pretty solid, the soundtrack is silly but brilliant, and the track design is actually fucking ace and very impressive.
Controls are iffy, but they're more than serviceable once you get used to them (drive Sonic like a car).
>>324201295
Hilariously badly.
also, the only addon Sega of America had a hand in was the 32X
like, SoA couldn't even get development Sega CDs from Sega of Japan
>>324201503
nope
only thing I can think of is the Sonic in Chaotix hack, which just replaces Mighty with Sonic
>>324200674
That really reinforces that they don't give 2 shits about anything that happened outside their walls. It's such a sterile, businessman kind of decision.
>>324201719
Oh, yeah, Sonic 3, the flawless game amirite.
Whoops.
You seriously think you can freely insult Sonic CD design when something like this exists? Fuck off you piece of shit.
>>324201719
While I listed it, I actually did enjoy Sonic R myself. I only listed it since I was just going off of the (seemingly) general opinion on the game. I wish more racing games (like the Animal Crossing track in Mario Kart 8) had seasonal changes for each track like Sonic R did.
>>324202035
It's not bad design, it just wasn't explained.
>>324201719
>Controls are iffy, but they're more than serviceable once you get used to them
>iffy
That's being a bit nice isn't?
The controls were hot ass anon. Then there's the fact that you had to go out of your way for the Emeralds and other collectibles AND win the race. On top of that when it comes to unlocking other characters you have to not only get said collectibles and win but beat the character or be forced to collect that shit again.
The game was ass.But I still find it fun.
>>324202143
It was explained, on the manual, the fact that you never have/had do use UP/DOWN in Sonic games till then, even when there were barrels prior to this specific zone that never used this method, then yes, it is a bad design by all means.
>>324202143
Carnival Night is actually a pretty poorly designed stage comparatively. It gets super closed off, and then drags on and on. Certainly not one of my favorite areas. Even ignoring the barrel debacle.
>>324202035
It says how to get past this part in the manual you dipshit
>>324196385
>>324202879
Are you fucking stupid? I already said it here >>324202453 Read all the fucking posts before embarrasing yourself.
>>324202998
>posted seconds after
>read all the posts
ok then
>>324202212
>The controls were hot ass anon. Then there's the fact that you had to go out of your way for the Emeralds and other collectibles AND win the race. On top of that when it comes to unlocking other characters you have to not only get said collectibles and win but beat the character or be forced to collect that shit again.
You can do that all in one run of the course (maybe two if you haven't played in a while), unless you're bad, and the game is extremely easy.
and the only time the controls have ever been bad is during the brief period where I pressed up to move Sonic forward (or actually, Knuckles, who I played as when learning the game), and couldn't really move well at all
once you stop that
The stages were specifically designed to be explored,
>>324202035
I mentioned that being bullshit.
I never said S3 was flawless (and fuck, I specifically said S&K was better than S3).
>>324202649
CNZ1 isn't too bad (not amazing), but CNZ2 is exactly that.
>>324202879
>>324202453
http://info.sonicretro.org/index.php?title=File%3ASonic3_MD_US_SonicJam_manual.pdf&page=1
it's not in the US manual, too lazy to check the EU one and can't read nip for the JP one
>>324202879
If you have to consult a manual to proceed in a game, probably not the best design.
This was the age of game rentals, after all.
>>324203142
>doesn't acknowledge mistakes
Off to a good start.
>>324194819
Bad single-player game, Dick-is-diamonds tier two-player game. It's blatant that it's meant to be a co-op game, anyone who says it's a bad game is a friendless loser.
>>324203317
wow, part of my post disappeared
>once you stop that
once you stop that, you can actually move Sonic and co pretty damn well
The stages were specifically designed to be explored to get some life out of the small number of stages.
personally, I'd rather have had another 4 or 8 more linear stages, but they're pretty damn good stages
>>324203496
Stop making them that long then you fucking autistic sad person
>>324203328
remember when people had manuals to look through and didn't have sit through some lame tutorial teaching you how to play the game. it was better then
>>324195167
No, it's not fine. It's absolutely not fine. It could have been fine, but it wasn't. If you replaced Knuckles with Sonic and got rid of the bungee gimmick it would still be a bad game. The music and spritework are so fucking good, it has one of the best special stages, the new characters (and return of Mighty) are neat, even the bungee gimmick is pretty neat, and it was awesome getting a spin-off starring Knuckles that wanted to do things a little differently.
But the thing that absolutely ruins the ever-loving fuck out of it is level design. This is how important level design is. And each area has FIVE fucking acts of what feels like randomly generated nonsense. It desperately needs a romhack, it's just begging for it.
>>324196385
32x emulation has been around forever. I first played it ages ago, and Sonic Crackers a few years before that.
>>324196796
This right here.
>>324193151
There isn't one. Not really. You have your oddballs like Super Mario Bros 2, Super Mario Land, Luigi's Mansion, Super Mario Sunshine, and awful crap like the edutainment and CD-i games. Virtual Boy Wario Land was on a system barely anybody had, but that was actually a solid game. Yoshi's Island was an impressive spin-off that had a totally different feel, kept Baby Mario tethered to you, and was arguably more like a 32x game compared to the much more modest spritework of the launch title that was Super Mario World. Except everybody had a SNES and Yoshi's Island is a classic.
I really can't think of a good equivalent.
>>324199968
I agree with this, and the part about WW here >>324199702 but I still think UT's the best. Time Travel was fucking neato.
>>324203632
I agree, because fuck tutorials. There are ways around this. Like a D-pad in the light signs flashing on the wall to spell out the up and down arrows. Even stylized to look remotely part of the level.
>>324203619
>actual discussion is autism
neo-/v/ everybody
>>324203653
>32x emulation has been around forever. I first played it ages ago, and Sonic Crackers a few years before that.
Obviously this increased the number of people who played it, maybe even dramatically. But someone has to care enough to care to track it down to begin with. If it were packaged in a Sonic Collection, people would stumble across it a bit more naturally and just give it a go.
>>324203889
>wall of text = actual discussion
You can have an actual discussion with short posts too, unless you want mistakes to happen like this >>324203496 where they get all messed up and end up confusing people instead of having a discussion.
You do this often? Twisting people's words just to play Vlad the Implier and post your meme reaction faces? You're a very sad person.
>>324202035
i never understand why people didn't figure this out. I started mashing the d-pad and then quickly realized it moved when you press up and down. I never had a manual to look through
>>324204142
If you have the bubble shield when you reach this zone, you will never think about using up and down buttons.
>>324194819
It's great, just never fucking use the Claw Machine once you get a good character for your sanitys' sake.
>>324204343
it's pretty easy to actually pick your character (particularly if you liked partnering with Vector), but that was retarded as a whole and just led to you hitting the reset button to try again
>>324204142
The barrel responds to jumping. It seems like you're making progress by timing your jumps, and I think I may have actually gotten past it by jumping when it bugged out or something.
Problem is, it's unhelpful feedback, and people won't try the proper method because of it.
>>324204460
I never understood why people like Vector. Is an awesome alligator who wears headphones really enough without any real gameplay advantage? Charmy's flight could be exploited pretty easily and I was surprised to learn he wasn't any kind of fan favorite.
>>324204315
my friend had told me he did that. boggled my mind that you could do that to begin with and that people had the patience to do so
>>324204749
was meant for >>324204487
and i had the thunder shield which was the best, due to double jump. also could get all 7 emeralds by zone 2 act 2 in my heyday.
>>324204487
>The barrel responds to jumping.
I'm convinced that was a later addition in development to make the barrels seem more dynamic.
shame we don't have any Sonic 3 betas at all (only thing we have are a possible "Complete" edition of Sonic 3 with the S&K half)
>>324204734
Of the designs, Vector's the coolest. As a partner, he's iffy (the weight is pretty useful though, which is part of the reason Heavy doesn't completely and utterly suck in every possible way, just most of them).
Charmy sucks as a partner, but he's absolute easy mode as a player character.
>>324204734
>vector
>without any real gameplay advantage
I am seriously thinking you didn't play this game. You can easily gain speed with him simply by double jumping in the direction you want.
>>324205270
It's just been a long time. Also, pretty sure I didn't get him very often. Seems like I had Espio in my team a lot.
>>324198597
>it's blatantly unfinished though, you can tell that Sega wanted to work on it more
What do you mean?
>>324206083
>What do you mean?
What does he mean by this?
>>324204487
still, having computer-controlled Tails along makes the jumping method impossible, and even though this is a relatively old game we're talking about that's still too big of a red flag that it's not the method the developers meant you to use. I didn't play Sonic 3 until long after the barrel had become infamous but I'm convinced the people complaining about it just didn't try to get past it very many times, and/or weren't very clever to start with. If something seems difficult to do, then you need to start exhausting every possible option available to you that you can think of, and that means pushing every single button on the controller.
Take the problems Sanic CD had and amplify it by 100. There, you have Knuckles Chaotix.
>>324206547
>having computer-controlled Tails along makes the jumping method impossible
Well, I had a human controlled one. Which made it extra confusing, because when it doesn't work you just assume your friend fucked everything up.
>>324206547
the game came out over 20 years ago, most who talk about it played it as a kid
>>324193151
>the armadillo never returned
>>324206083
other than the stages, the game just lacks general polish
the ending (good and bad) is plain in a way Sonic games hadn't been up to that point
the stages are mostly slapped together and don't change terribly much throughout the betas from what we have
the main menu literally looks like something out of a debug build
also, there's the fact that it was on the 32X at all, and nearly ALL the 32X games were slammed together in a couple of months
>>324206547
>and that means pushing every single button on the controller.
Look, everyone figured it out eventually. It was just a pain in the ass. And not all kids think so rationally about trial and error, or the impossibility presented by a computer controlled partner..
Back then, there were a lot of games that just weren't thoroughly tested. QA was not as thorough as modern day games, and there were a lot of really poor design decisions in video games. Your mindset that all games are considerate in their designs really reveals the era you were born into.
>>324207469
Well did he ever return? No, he never returned,
And his fate is still unlearned (Poor old Mighty)
He may ride forever 'neath the halls of Sega,
He's the hog who never returned
>>324207332
You'd think even a kid realizes that the game should have some way of actually beating it. I even admitted that yes, we're talking about an old game and back then critical bugs or design fuck-ups may have been more common. But still.
>>324208054
You apparently don't remember being a kid. When something doesn't work, a lot of times you just get mad and just jumping like a maniac.
>>324208054
The barrel sucked and it didn't help that it was in the gayest Sonic level so far
>>324208054
i didn't for the same reason i didn't try holding down the power button for 10 seconds, it was completely outside of the language the game established
From some faggot insulting my beautiful Sonic CD game, to a derail of Sonic 3 barrel, this is just beautiful, how does that make you feel, wall-of-text poster?
>>324208693
If you're referring to this guy >>324201719
He fully owned up about the barrel thing with no prompting.
>>324194819
It works, but the level design leaves a lot to be desired. It's like they forgot to finish the game.
It has some of the best tracks in the franchise and some beautiful backgrounds and sprites, but there's literally nothing to do in the stages. You just keep moving until you find the exit.
![MightyRayHiRes[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/X4tzNlv.png "MightyRayHiRes[1].png")
>>324208002
>>324207469
Generations made an incredibly small quip in acknowledging his and Ray's existence at least.
>>324209535
>It has some of the best tracks in the franchise
No lie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaykX3Cie3E
>>324209290
But... but...!!!
>>324209656
It feels like the content creators are more fun than the people calling the shots. This was probably slid in the door and the director didn't notice or care.
>>324195897
Because it isn't.
>>324202035
This still hunts my childhood
I would go crazy jumping on it, trying to get it to move or something.
I love Sonic 3, it's a fun game, but god damn my younger self would cry over this.
>>324209656
>Mighty the Armaddilo
Isn't Mighty as Sonic proto type?
I wonder if Mighty hates Sonic for stealing his spot in the lime light.
I would have seen Mighty as a villain, with Ray being his Tails side kick.
I never knew I wanted an 8-way airdash in a platformer until playing Vector.
>>324211783
There were a lot of early phases they talk about. Like a Teddy Roosevelt in pajamas was briefly the hero. Before he got pushed into the villain role.
Super Mario USA
>>324209656
Ray, Mighty, and Nack should be a team in Sonic Heroes 2.
>>324212456
>Sonic Heroes 2
I would rather not.
>>324210481
Welcome to Japanese Game Development
>>324212780
The game had flaws, but with a bit more polish it could be really good. All the exploration people liked in S3&K, plus all of Sonic's little friends get to play for the fanbase.
>>324215387
The switching mechanic just felt tedious, even if they had polished it more. I think I'd rather just run around as one character who can do the necessary tricks to navigate on his own.
That's not to say I don't enjoy a little cast diversity though.
>>324202879
Pretty sure I never had a manual for Sonic 3.
>>324215387
Sonic Heroes could have been great were Sega not forced to convert the game to Renderware at last second so they could make a ps2 version.
>>324215748
In this era of controllers with lots of buttons, you could easily make it work.
Power buttons: punch and glide
Speed buttons: boost and wall jump/ring dash
Flight buttons: launch and fly
Sorry there are no Mario meme games
>>324211783
Originally, and then after Segasonic he became kind of a prototype for Knuckles. Same with Ray for Tails.
