Be honest, do you hate this game? I mean, it's a bad game, but do you hate it? Think of all the laughs it's brought.
the snowboard level made me want to kill myself
>>323229878
I just went along for the ride, same with Shadow and Heroes before that.
>>323229878
i bought it used and i thought the disc was broken or something because the whole thing was laggy and stuttery and very clunky in general, as a kid that made me hate myself thinking i was that bad at video games, but to be fair, i liked shadow's levels.
>>323229878
Never played it.
Shadow was so bad I wasn't going to touch this one unless it was gold.
>>323231680
but Heroes was on a whole other level of gud compared to this garbage, i'm not even sure why anyone really dislikes that game
>>323229878
eventually the glitches stop being funny and start being frustrating
after like half an hour it just becomes boring and is punctuated by anger at glitches and shitty design fucking you
>>323231975
It's not that I particularly disliked Heroes, but it does have it's problems and was a big change in tone from SA2.
>>323231975
Go replay it and find out.
I mean it did give us this.
>>323232464
my PS2 is dead, i would replay it if i could
So what in your opinion is actually wrong with Sonic Heroes? It sure isn't a masterpiece, i'm not arguing that, but i don't think it deserves as much hate as it gets usually. Also i liked the music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnOtW_yMmzo
>>323232956
It's slippery as all hell and you have to beat the game 4 times to unlock the actual ending. There are other problems but those are my biggest problems with it.
>>323229878
I hate what it did to Sonic.
SEGA:
>Oh! People didn't like this game? I suppose that means no more characters other than Sonic, no more multifaceted storylines, no more lore and no more hub worlds.
I don't know if SEGA understood WHY this game was so bad, so they abandoned EVERYthing that 06 had, even things that could have been good if more time had been taken to refine it.
>>323233162
I see, fair argument, but i think picking different teams and completing stages with them actually offered a more of a replayability value, and if i remember right some bits are different for each of the teams. But i agree, the true ending should've been easier to unlock, collecting the emralds was a joke too.
>>323232956
It's mostly opinions, but I found some of the levels to be kind of a chore (hang castle, the casino level) especially when playing as team Chaotix.
It's moments like missing one robot in metropolis or a torch in hang castle and having to backtrack that make me not want to replay it.
>>323233501
I've felt the exact same way for years, anon. I'm glad we got a break from the super srs stories, but I'd like to play a new game with all the characters again.
>>323229878
It could have been good if SEGA didn't have to release early
>>323229878
i don't.
the multiplayer mode is good, but it would have been better if you could choose any playable character
>>323233926
How cool would it be to have bigger, more expansive levels to rush through with Sonic, fly over with Tails and climb all over with Knuckles, looking for hidden junk? I suppose we'll have to settle for Generations and Lost World mods.
>>323229878
The soundtrack was pretty good.
>>323234415
Those Generations mods are great though
>>323235543
Yeah, but we already know that. Can you think of anything else to enjoy about the game? To me, I actually enjoy the level design. The game engine does not at all compliment the levels at all, but playing the Generations mods really let the level design shine.
>>323235694
They are, but there's only so much you can do with character mods. They'll never be more than model, animation and sound effect swaps with some minor physics tweaks. You can pretend you're actually playing as Tails and Knuckles all you like, but you're not.
>>323229878
It's brought entertainment value in its own way, but I'd still rather there was a great game in its place.
can we agree that riders is still meh/forgettable but much better than R?
>>323236052
The level design is objectively bad tho. On average there's at least a couple of booster pads that will either boost you into a wall, into a group of enemies or into a bottomless pit. Not to mention enemies you can't possibly avoid.
What does HE think of it?
>>323229878
Eh dunno about hate it. I got some enjoyment from some of the Mach Speed levels
and seeing how fast you can utterly destroy the Sonic boss fight as Silver was good fun
IT'S NO USE
>>323236602
Well, the Boost Pads into walls is mostly the game engine's folly, I think. The Boost Pads' placements are meant to get you on track, but the fact that the 06 engine makes you tumble, or stop entirely if you so much as stub your toe while going "fast," (a term I use loosely when referring to this game) causes the problem you speak of if I'm understanding you correctly.
The enemy placement, though, yeah. I can agree with you there. I suppose I like the level design more because it's at least more open than Unleashed, or Generations.
I really don't.
However this is all though bias since I never was around when it first came out.
The Sonic levels are comfy as fuck. I like "realistic" style of the levels. Shadow and Silver, not so much.
Story is garbage but Sonic was never known for its storytelling. I hated Sonic Adventure 2's story more.
Guilty pleasure but I wouldn't say its unplayable. Even if it was finished I think people would have hated it.
>>323236260
Honestly I've never played Riders, nor have I heard it talked about much on /v/
were they any good?
>>323238503
Not really. Zero Gravity is ok on Gamecube controller. Riders wasn't anything special either.
The 3rd one was fucking awful but its kinect, so not much to expect.
>>323229878
Which was worse, 06 or Boom?
>>323239303
Boom. Because 06 was, at the very least, a Sonic game.
>>323239303
Boom
Sonic did redeem himself for the most part and Boom just fucked it up again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAZjXJNVTmA
Even the worst Sonic games (Excluding Boom) have some pretty damn good music.
>>323239303
boom
atleast 06 had a semblance of creativity
>>323239303
Boom because 06 isn't boring. You can get some enjoyment out of it.
>>323239303
'06 is technically/functionally the worse game, but Boom is more bland and boring--which might be worse as an experience.
>>323241194
Boom is equally as bad when it comes to functioning
Sonic 06 atleast has you wait until the final chapter for the jump into space glitch.
I think the older games, I'm gonna get flak for this, or not, but the 2D 1,2,3, and CD are really good, the 3D games are ok, but it went from kinda childish but Kawaii in a way to shit, shit, and shit. 06 (which is presented) Is shit, and the community is something I've been trying to get away from.
>>323229878
I hate it's existence for doing almost irreparable damage to the franchise.
>>323229878
I have some fondness for it, but that's all nostalgia from the weekend me and my friend rented it when it came out and marathoned it on his 360. It was a terrible game, but the experience is something I look back fondly on.
>>323239303
Boom isokaybut it is so far removed from the concept of a sonic game you wonder why they even bothered.
06 is without a doubt much worse but at least tried to adhere to the sonic formula instead of being a shitty generic platformer
I'm gonna go with Chronicles
>>323233501
I agree with you 100% anon
Even the 2D games ditched tails and knuckles as playable characters, something that had added so much fun and replayability to the genesis and advance games.
This whole "only sonic and boosting so fast" meme is a pos and needs to die.
idc about the sonic friends meme, it's fun to play as tails, knuckles and shadow
>>323239303
Boom, because despite all the crap 06 has it was at least a Sonic game
>>323241719
Boom was rushed and buggy. '06 was literally a beta.
>>323245690
>'06 was literally a beta.
Not even
06 barely functions as a tech demo
>>323246254
still better than boom.
boom is inexcusable garbage
>>323229878
>, do you hate this game?
yes.
>Think of all the laughs it's brought.
yeah, and those laughs faded halfway through the sonic campaign.
I finished the game.
>>323239743
Good music is the one consistent thing in every sonic game, The day a sonic game on the same fuck-up tier as 06 or boom but with terrible music appears, will be the day we know the franchise is over.
>>323229878
The objective and true sonic tier list
>>323248286
>good music
>every sonic game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o47N-aYd08
How come we haven't seen a boost game in almost five years? Generations did really well.
I want Sonic Team to expand on SA2's 'race' mode so much, online multiplayer with shitloads of characters. Just get rid of the dumb character powers like Chaos Control.
Are there any good 3D Sonic Fangames yet? Even with just a 1 Demo Original Act, most of them are just open world physic engine Demo's with no end goal.
>>323250706
Sonic World
Reminder that Sonic's target demographic is young enough that they've never played a main Sonic game with playable characters other than Sonic, with a serious story, or with side characters other than the Genesis-era ones (Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Eggman), and associate all the other characters with sports spin-offs.
>>323250998
what about that raccoon in the DS version of boom?
>>323248808
>a sonic tier list I actually agree with
Amazing.
Look out for people who will try and convince you that Unleashed is better than Colors and Generations, though.
>>323250998
Is this supposed to be an issue?
>>323252468
>main
>>323252503
I like Unleashed and understand it being "Ok". I think people who like Unleashed do so understanding its flaws rather than pretending they don't existlike Adventure fans
>>323252642
Just saying don't be surprised if they decide a Sonic game with more characters would be considered new and fresh after a ten year break.
>>323229878
i liked it when i played it, but admittedly i was a shit eater back then and i would've loved any game if it had sonic in the title.
>>323236839
probably thought it was the best shit ever
>>323250998
that is a good thing
>>323233501
No the reason why SEGA said no more characters other than Sonic was because fans complained about the other characters. Don't you remember "Sonic has too many friends" and "Why do I have to play these non-speed levels just to play as Sonic"?
>>323254371
>"Sonic has too many friends"
Invalid argument that they should've ignored.
>"Why do I have to play these non-speed levels just to play as Sonic"?
Valid argument that they ignored.
>>323248286
YOu liked the music from Boom?
Anyone here care for an optimistic defense of 06?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JEHCmSEVx8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RRem94fkRg
>>323248808
I might be one of the few people who'd put the Rush games in God tier, maybe even Elder God tier.
>>323254895
I'd put all of the Advance and Rush games in Good tier because they all have at least one flaw keeping them from God tier.
>>323252850
They've worn out just about every idea for a new character. Christ, the only thing they've given us for a new villain is a Ratchet and Clank-looking ripoff.
Personally, judging from how Metal Sonic and Shadow were used in the show and Wii U game, we'll probably just get the old characters rebranded and reintroduced.
Of course, double-edged swords, given their track record:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxVmZeRm6nA
>>323248808
>Sonic Adventure not on par with SA2
>Black Knight shit tier
If I didn't know any and all lists of this type were bait outside the Ace Attorney fanbase, I'd actually ask for your criteria.
>>323229878
>all the laughs
There's the problem. It's not hilariously bad. It's just bad.
>>323254371
>Don't you remember "Sonic has too many friends" and "Why do I have to play these non-speed levels just to play as Sonic"?
Where? All I ever heard was "SONIC 06 SUCKS! SONIC 06 SUCKS! NOTHING YOU THINK OR SAY MATTERS BECAUSE SONIC 06 SUCKS!". Where the hell did those conceits come from?
>>323255208
>black knight
>good
show your work.
>Sonic Adventure not on par with SA2
it's really not.
>>323255498
All you have to do is type in "Sonic has too many" and google will finish the question for you
It's a stupid meme. Mario has more "friends" than Sonic.
>>323255596
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Uj0K4GvRIc
>>323255632
>All you have to do is type in "Sonic has too many" and google
Are you really trying to repurpose "HAHA YOUR NAME HERE THE HEDGEHOG" as an argument? All I know is that ClementJ692 said that IGN had a pre-existing bias against 3D Sonic.
>>323255498
From the death of the Dreamcast, and by extension exposure of both Adventures to a wider audience, up to and including 06 for "too many friends" and Unleashed for "why can't I just play Sonic levels?"
>>323255773
What are you talking about.
>>323255827
*citation needed*
>>323229878
Yes I fucking hate it.
It was an awful mess that wasted my time both before and after its release. The only laughs I get are from the suffering of others playing it.
Anyone that actually likes this game can kill themselves.
>>323255632
Sonic has Charmy tho.
That's too many.
>>323256061
Please stop trolling.
>>323255664
allow me to rebut.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9-0lb3svwU
>>323239303
Objectively Sonic 06 and anyone that says Boom is legitimately retarded/has their head lodged firmly in their ass.
>>323256235
I will gladly throw the baby out with the bathwater on this issue, so long as Charmy disappears forever.
>>323256275
Why is Boom not shittier than 06?
>>323256264
>Somecallmefatasswithakaizotrigger
Only his Arkham Asylum reviews are actually good. All his videos pre-Pokemon were garbage anyways. Plus he thought Other M was good.
>>323256525
>shitty combat, retarded controls, on the rails running with no stopping
>good
fuck every wii game that forced the waggle like it was going to be a thing.
Nah
If anything the opposite. I kind of love how fucking stupidly shit it is.
>>323256438
That is the most random, arbitrary reason to argue "SONIC'S FRIENDS ARE THE REASON SONIC IS WORSE THAN HITLER". Please stop trolling before I call you a triggered Tumblrina.
>>323256481
Less of a technical mess.
Wasn't advertised as the reboot of Sonic as a franchise, an anniversary game, or a mainline game in general.
Aside from lacking a story for the most parts due to cut content, the story wasn't the worst thing I've subjected myself to since the star wars prequels like Sonic 06's was.
>>323239303
I'd rather play 06 than Boom if given the choice.
>>323248808
>Sonic Adventure being "Meh Tier"
What a shit list.
>>323255596
Everything outside of waggle controls was good.
- Good storyline that took what Sonic represents as a character and made it meaningful in a way that hadn't quite been done in the games before, without going overly serious melodrama
- Decent enough graphics considering its on the Wii
- Literally the last 4kids game so the VAs by then had a good grip on their characters and weren't bad
- Merlina is a qt
- Literally the best Sonic soundtrack of all time
- Gameplay isn't bad if you remap waggle to actual buttons, and would've been even better had they just done that to begin with
Black Knight is the perfect example of a solid and underrated game that was fucked over by forced Wii motion controls.
>>323256843
>Aside from lacking a story for the most parts due to cut content, the story wasn't the worst thing I've subjected myself to since the star wars prequels like Sonic 06's was.
Wow
>>323257714
>- Literally the best Sonic soundtrack of all time
that's stillsonic 06
It was...okay...I guess? For every frustrating moment (snowboarding), there was a good moment (mach speed section in wave ocean). I have no plans to ever play it again, which is probably a bad sign since I've replayed many different sonic games.
>>323248808
>considering Sonic 3 and Knuckles as one game
Can we end this meme?
>>323257787
Honestly, I think the 06 soundtrack suffered as much as the rest of the game did from the rushed schedule. It was still good, but still gave the impression that some of the tracks were incomplete demos rather than completely finished and polished tracks. Probably why the Crisis City remixes in Generations are fucking incredible.
>>323256843
>Cut content
What cut content? The developers kept clamoring about how complete the game was and it was still a hot mess.
>Less of a technical mess
You can literally beat the game through a glitch that skips through almost the entire game
>Wasn't advertised as a reboot
It has a new world, characters, TV show, comics, merchandise, 3DS games, etc. It is a reboot of the franchise by every definition. SEGA just didn't want to call it a reboot because it will anger fans. The massive Boom campaign to make sure this shit is a success is proof that they wanted this to be the new Sonic.
>>323256525
Except he didn't think Other M was good. He spent plenty of time complaining about it, almost as much as he did summarizing the story.
>>323232956
>PS2 version
Well there's your problem.
>>323258261
He called it "meh". He ignored the connotations of the story, and basically just said it's a good enough game, just not Prime tier. Christ, he even gave it a 7/10.
If you want a real video review of Othwr M, I'd rely on GamingBrit. If you want the objectively best "everything-gets-torn-to-bloody-chunks" review, that's Korval's territory.
>>323229878
I can't even beat the first fucking level because the controls are so bad.
>>323258409
My problem? What do you mean? i have no problem with the game.
>>323232956
>I liked the music
this really should not be a defense for bad sonic games.
only one or two of the bad sonic games have bad soundtracks too.
>>323231975
>Heroes was on a whole other level of gud compared to this garbage
Heroes is literally responsible for most of the flaws in 06's design that aren't attributed to it being unfinished
Heroes brought in multi hit enemies that require repetitive attacks to defeat
Heroes brought in realistic bullets that take off one rings at a time
And on top of that Heroes has some of the most awful broken physics in a sonic game ever, not even 06 is as bad as Heroes in some aspects.
Shadow salvaged the Heroes engine and turned it into something playable by fixing the physics and adding in guns to justify the enemy health bars, but it's still a mediocre game at best that gets more shit than it deserves because of the tryhard edginess. Heroes has no redeeming qualities, not even the soundtrack is that good for sonic standards
>>323254371
Critics who couldn't properly articulate their thoughts said that.
>>323233661
>i think picking different teams and completing stages with them actually offered a more of a replayability value,
Not when the different teams were literal reskins that played the exact same. Chaotix is the only team where the actual gameplay is different
>>323232956
The PS2 version is the worst from what I heard.
>>323248808
Put SA2 on meh tier with the rest of the dreamcast games
>>323260506
also being way too goddamn fast and uncontrollable, more backtracking than the chaotix missions, and having to replay the game all the way through....what, 12 times to get the real ending?
it's just a disappointment all the way
Why did it turn out so bad?
>>323260506
>Heroes has no redeeming qualities
Some of the level design had the best example of legitimately branching paths in the 3D games. For most of the 3D games "branching paths" just meant minor detours that merge again a few seconds later, with most of the level design being horribly linear.
Also it had the best Vector voice. Shame it only lasted one game.
>>323260763
Are you talking about shadow?
>way too goddamn fast and uncontrollable
He's slower than sonic in the adventure games
>more backtracking than the chaotix missions
Perhaps if you aren't paying attention and miss shit, but they do try and make it easier with that teleport system
>and having to replay the game all the way through....what, 12 times to get the real ending?
Definitely a fault of the game, but they do at least make it easier to swallow with the branching path system so that to get those 12 endings you are completing different objectives each time. Most levels with the exception of the first couple you only ever play the same level OBJECTIVE once or twice. I would argue that makes it less repetitive than Heroes, where you were literally just going through the exact same level every time and maybe stopping sooner (minus chaotix)
The game definitely has its faults but most of the criticisms people seem to have of it are 'not muh sonic' or 'ow the edge'
>>323239303
'06 because it vaguely resembles a Sonic game. Boom feels a subpar 6th gen licensed game; you could replace the characters and I wouldn't even be reminded of Sonic.
>>323260808
What levels had significantly branching paths that didn't just merge soon after?
Also Heroes had enemy setups which you were required to defeat before progressing any further in the level, another bad design choice that stayed for 06
>>323254692
It is criminally forgettable but inoffensive.
I played 06 and honestly had fun. It was masochistic fun, but fun nonetheless
I've played heroes and gave up when I realised I needed to get all of the chaos emeralds in those half pipe stages that have quite literally some of the worst physics in a 3D sonic game, plus the fact that you literally cannot beat the later special stages if you use the wrong team. That is an absolutely awful design decision
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf7-ixllcgo
before
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o47N-aYd08
after
winners don't do bioware
>>323260808
>Also it had the best Vector voice.
Guy gets one look at Rouge and his only reaction is "Who's this broad?" Guy knows what's up.
>>323260506
>Retroactively bashing Heroes for starting trends in 06
I'd say I might as well mock you by implying Tails in Sonic 2 is to blame for 06's multiple characters, but then there are actual lunatics that preach that.
>>323261142
I lost count of the pits I fell into pointlessly while playing shadow because of how fast it was...and unlike adventure, whose high-speed sections were generally on rails and not needed to be controlled, shadow actually required that you move and control shit...and he was slippery af.
even in the first mission, I remember how many times I had to go through again and again to find all the GUN soldiers.
shadow the hedgehog was the last sonic game I went into expecting a good game.
generations broke that trend for me, but goddamn was it a chore to play through.
a fucking stage select would have fixed the biggest problem the game had, but no, oyu have to play the first couple stages 3-5 times.
shit, to unlock every cutscene and path in the cutscene viewer, you have to play something like 290 different playthroughs.
>>323261523
>tfw I grew up with sonic 3D and unironically love it still
>>323261614
There's nothing retroactive about it. Heroes made a multitude of bad design decisions such as the ones I've pointed out. It was bad when Heroes did it and it was equally bad when 06 did it, but 06 is usually the only one to get shit for it because of its meme status
>>323262236
>and he was slippery af.
He literally objectively wasn't. You stop almost instantly regardless of how fast you're moving, and you have a super small turning circle. You're confusing the fact that his run animation has him gliding on the ground with how the game physically played.
>>323248808
>Labyrinth above 2006
I feel like I can understand where you're coming from, but I feel like 2006 being worse than Labyrinth is a mostly a subjective reaction. The development drummed itself up as the return of the Adventure series, which a lot of people looked forward to after we got Heroes and Shadow. What we got was more than just a let down but a nail being hammered into everyone's urethra. Meanwhile Labyrinth was released at the end of a dead handheld's lifespan. But Labyrinth really manages to be more numbing and painful to play, and not in a amusing or endearing way like 2006 potentially can. The only other worse officially released Sonic experience might be Sonic Eraser.
