>Just Cause is the sort of thing AAA gaming should be making all the time because it's the only thing it's still best at. If consoles are going to keep endlessly pushing for better graphics, more pixels, bits, flips, flops and fannies we don't want them to use it to render Ellen Page crying on a toilet, we want to see it rendering more trucks exploding than we've ever seen explode before. We want to see every single bit flying off and embedding itself in the flank of a passing squirrel with poor reflexes.
Is he right /v/?
Games that adhear to the "FUN" meme get boring after a couple of hours.
>>322428176
I still can't get over his terminal cancer diagnosis I mean he's so young
He's right in that devs should be spending more time making gameplay better, rather than making eye candy.
>>322428176
Yes. AAA is the blockbuster market and its public don't give a shit about emerging gameplay, roleplaying, interesting story, etc. They want to buy a game shoot the shit for 3-7 days and then go back to their boring lives until the next sandbox is released.
Leave the actual new trends to the small/mid developers, because they are still small enough and centered enough to actually make an original idea and maybe tackle some more complicated issues.
>>322428176
Considering how laughably childish the writing for every AAA "Serious emotions" title has been, yes.
Well it's kinda the point of Just Cause, so yes
>>322428176
>mana bar closed
>"highschool" drop out
>Reviews videogames for a living
>Closer to his 40's
>The job security of an Internet Celebrity
How do you fuck your life that badly?
>>322430170
Doesn't he also own a bar?
>>322430252
A different one, I meant
>>322430252
The "mana" bar...
>>322428417
Say what you will of TotalBiscuit but he got a wife, and a kid.
Yahtzee literally got nothing but flash tier games under his hand.
He is turning more, and more irrelevant.
Markiplier already eclipses him.
>>322430364
Do you listen to his not-podcast with Gabe? He's very happy to be fading into irrelevence. He wants nothing more than to take the money he's made from Zero Punctuation and Mana Bar, and just live out the rest of his days writing his novels and coding his flash games.
I don't give a shit about reviewers, but I'm having a blast with JC3, albeit the first I've played in the series.
We don't even need more computing power to unlock near the full potential of games. I was ignorant in thhinking that limited hardware would be the downfall of console and eventually PC gaming. It is and will always be lack of creativity that hinders games
>>322430170
Yahtzee's smart enough to not make this shit his life. He's not an E-celeb, I'm sure he's well off.
>>322430606
>Was writing yourself into welfare part of your plan?
>"Of course"
>Do you listen to his podcast
Niet, but glad I am helping.
>>322428417
Wait he also got cancer?
Are they going to find out that being a video game e-celeb actually causes cancer?
>>322431178
lol Gabe is the one on welfare, not Yahtzee
Yes.
Name a AAA game that came out in the last year that had a good story.
I'm glad people like this cunt are in the minority. Just Cause 3 looks like shit and plays like it too, the animations are cartoony and it just feels like shit 2bh
Graphics and animations need to keep progressing
>>322432290
Pillars of Eternity
Bloodborne
Witcher 3
Wasteland 2
>>322428176
No, because Just Cause was FUCKING BORING.
Yahtzee might be a cynical casual, but he's still a casual. You're supposed to advance spec into either Fighting or Strategy games when you play enough videogames, not dick around forever with Point n Clicks and AAA sandbox shit.
>>322432475
>HUE HUE MY GRAPHIX
who the hell cares? i play games to get away from my shitty life, why should my games start to become more like it? the graphics we have now are fine
>>322428176
Just Cause 3 is fun for a couple days. Once you've taken over the bases you proceed to do the 'story' and you are finished in less than three hours. After that you are done. Not to mention the awful characters, and the most pathetic final boss ever. Seriously this game is a weekend rental with no replayability.
>>322432475
>Graphics and animations need to keep progressing
The only purpose of graphics is to display adequately what is going on. Anything further than that is unnecessary and is effort that would better be spent elsewhere.
The immersion meme is retarded. The only reason you should ever be 'immersed' in a game is if you're playing it for the purposes of escapism.And that's unhealthy.
>>322432290
>Name a videogame that came out in the last year that had a good story.
ftfy
Even the best stories in videogames are primarily just mediocre from a literature standard. I don't want to go all Harlan Ellison here, but when people play this crap and think it's good storytelling, they're bringing down the collective pool of knowledge in the reading community.
And it's all because videogame companies refuse to hire ACTUAL writers, and always go with in-house videogame writers instead.
>>322432730
>You're supposed to advance spec into either Fighting or Strategy games when you play enough videogames
He hates both of those genres. He thinks fighting games is for tryhards.
>>322432731
No they're not. Pixar-level CGI should be the goal. Imagine if fucking Morrowind actually looked like a physical place, or any GTA city, or if Battlefront looked 100% real. It's a big deal and we need to take that leap.
>>322432537
>2 aren't Triple A
>None have a good story.
>>322433132
Say what you will about Bioware, but they were one of the few companies that saw this problem. There's a reason that the author of the Darth Bane books wrote KotOR
>>322433301
He also wrote that terrible Revan novel, he's no different from any other dime-a-dozen EU novelist.
At least Zahn has a Hugo under his belt, why doesn't anyone hire him?
>>322433458
>comparing Darth Bane with the "dime a dozen" EU
You best not be talking shit bout rule of two
Why does everyone always defer to novelists for penning a videogame script? You'd think a screenwriter would be more readily adaptable to writing what is essentially a play the user takes part it.
Yahtzee isn't irrelevant what the fuck are you fags saying?
>>322433646
It's average at best, and you should try reading the other books he wrote. There's a reason he's considered himself to have failed as a fantasy novelist.
>>322433760
In the relm of EU, an "above average" poece of writing is a GODSEND
remember, this is the same universe where Darth Maul kiddnapped baby luke and Fett escaped the Sarlac pitt
>>322428176
>DUDE JUST BE CREATIVE WITH THE GAME AND ITS FUN
I hate that fucking argument. No it's not. If all I can do is blow shit up, that gets boring in the first fucking hour
>>322428362
Pretty much.
>WOW YOU CAN DO ANYTHING!
>In an empty world with nothing to do.
Kind of the problem the Prototype games had (well and the garbage story in 2).
>>322433721
Two reasons
1. Videogames are too much like movies as-is, we don't need to blur the line further by using people who write with film conventions in mind.
2. Books translate better into the videogame medium while still being like a videogame.And novelists are generally easier to get a hold of.
>>322430875
He wrote two books
>>322428176
No. Just Cause is boring. Once you get past the EXPLOSIONS it's an incredibly shallow game with very little to offer.
>>322433132
>from a literature standard
Apples and oranges. Good videogame writing isn't "this sounds like Hemingway," it's something engaging that uses the medium's unique assets; a story that would only really work as a videogame.
>>322434225
If not a screenwriter, then a playwright?
The only problem with using film's conventions is most dumbshit developers can't marry it with the gameplay. Or don't even want to, it's like they detest it.
>>322434084
>read that Prototype is about a guy whos genes are fucked up by the human experimentserformed at the Govt Fort just putside Fredrick, MD
>Apparently the final pevel takes place in Fredrick
>IRL my genes on my Moms side are fucked up from the waste disposal from the Fort, since she grew up in Fredrick
>as a result, i have fucking insane genetics
>now i really want to play prototype
>install it
>lack of variety gets me so bored i uninstall it within five hours
And inFamous is one of my favorite games, to
>>322430170
He sold the bar to a guy before it closed beasue he knew it was failing.
smart call.
>>322433267
>Imagine if fucking Morrowind actually looked like a physical place
It would be the same game.
Besides, why strive for realism? Some people like using their own style instead.
>>322433971
Look at bloodborne, you kill things and explore cool places, you dont keep listening to the ramblings of Gehrman and his relation to the doll.
>>322434225
This reminds me of how I can't choose between writing novels or making video games. I wanna try creating something, but apparently you can only do one profession properly in your whole life.
If at all.
>>322434913
You're in a topic with the OP image of a dude who both makes alright games and alright novels.
>>322434913
Im taking the Lucas/Tolkien approach where I focus on developing my dingle universe and stories first, THEN decide how to tell them
>>322433267
>Imagine if fucking Morrowind actually looked like a physical place
It would still be a mediocre game.
>>322434913
Nigga what?
It takes 20-30 hours to get competent at something (provided you are educating yourself correctly). It takes a few months to get good at something, and about 7 years to master something.
In your life time, you could probably master 7-8 different things, but you wont because you don't have the drive to do it.
>>322434575
Good writing is good writing. The majority of videogame writers don't understand proper pacing, or consistent characterization, and good plotting.
Asimov wasn't a good writer because "oh this is definitive science fiction". He was a good writer because the universes he wrote were believable places filled with what felt like real people that acted like human beings. And when the more fantastic elements like the Mule in Foundation were introduced, they were done so in a way that didn't break your suspension of disbelief.
You know, the hallmarks of being a good writer.
>>322428176
I forgot about yahtzee years ago. Thanks for reminding me OP
>>322435362
Asimov is a shit writer, get your fedora out of your read.
>>322428176
come on now at least use the update yahtzee picture
>>322435474
>Asimov is a shit writer
Have you actually READ Foundation?
>>322428362
but... saints row 3 and 4 were fun as shit
>>322435558
There might be a reason people don't use the updated Yahtzee picture.
>>322434913
It sounds like you haven't dabbled in either. You're really not in a position to talk about indecisiveness wrt specialization.
>>322435074
I tried that approach and couldn't figure out how to tie the overall story together. The concept was there, but I couldn't figure out how to tie any of it together. After getting discouraged with that, I'm just writing up something new that's really simple and characterful to flex my creative muscles, rather than constantly retool the same concept over and over. At least I'm making actual progress with it this time.
>>322435627
3 is also considered the game that irreversibly changed the series from what people liked about 1 and 2.
Except 3 also tried to have its cake and eat it too by staying serious while being silly, but it didn't pull it off. At least 4 knew to just throw caution to the wind and embrace the ridiculousness to its logical degree.
>>322434551
B-but EXPLOSIONS!
like driving a truck off a cliff BA-BOOM!
or flying a plane into a gas line KA-BLAM!
clearly you just didn't blow enough stuff up anon, and that sick wingsuit it's like superman only better
No JC is so much better than TW3 wow boring another fantasy game where you hit shit with a sword, where's teh exlposions?
>>322431178
Gabe is the one on Welfare, dumbass. Yahtzee's pretty well off.
>>322433070
>The only reason you should ever be 'immersed' in a game is if you're playing it for the purposes of escapism.
>playing games for reasons other than escapism
but anon, that doesnt make any sense
>>322433721
A movie is a piece of entertainment intended to deliver a full story and at least one character arc in a time frame between 1.5 to 2 hours. A game bothering to tell a story will probably be aiming for at least 10 hours of story content, with some looking towards over 60 hours of scripted content. The pacing and connectivity of movies is very different from video games.
High production television series are a bit closer to video games, since they tend to be written as a sequence of one hour chunks that get strung together to tell a 10-20 hour story. Not too unlike most people might play a game for an hour or two, with others "binging" and getting a half dozen episodes in one sitting.
Still, the most fluid and easiest to work with format is the traditional novel. It lets the author dump all of their ideas into one work. With all of the ideas laid out, the designers can then pick the pieces they want/need to build the skeleton for the game. Other parts get added as development allows. Basically, it makes it easier for the devs if they can hack pieces out and still have ideas to pull from later, rather than having the intricately interwoven ideas prevalent in a tv series, or the super condensed story of a movie.
>>322428176
>Taking advice from a fedora wearing le gentleman reddit user faggot
Yeah sure OP, I guess he is right.
>>322434913
>anime shitposter
>spends more time on 4chan than actually attempting either
you're a failure, don't bother
>>322435943
Some us want to learn Russian.
- Valvedrone
>>322428176
>we don't want them to use it to render Ellen Page crying on a toilet
wow, what a faggot.
>>322436134
>shitposter calling other people shitposters
>>322436140
cyka blyat idi nahui
>>322436085
He doesn't wear it anymore, it's not a fedora, and he admits that the look is ruined.
>>322428176
No, because Just Cause 3 was really boring and a thousand times worse than the previous game.
>>322428176
Literally a memester casual.
No one should care what this fucking idiot has to say.
>>322430170
>be ausfag
>Drove an hour up to Brisbane to visit the Allmighty Mana Bar
>Can't even fucking find it, shit says it's right here
>Oh, there it is, that tiny little thing with no signage
>Go inside
>Place looks like rundown shit the size of a shoebox
>Cheap as fuck anonymous noname chinese tv sets on the walls
>Xbone, PS4, WiiU, NeoGeo
>Guy at the bar is sitting with 2 fat flags talking about fuck knows what
>Hang around the front sort of implying I'd like a drink
>Ignored
>K, i'll play some vidya
>Try Mariokart on WiiU, I own a WiiU so this should be an experience, let's see if I can coax a lovely game of strangerly fun
>No one gets up to play or anything
>TV has the most HORRENDOUS latency I've ever come into contact with, can't even play videogames properly on any of them
>Knack is running on the PS4
>Xbone has literally just Forza and Killer Instinct and that's it
>Played some metal slug on the neo geo, been there done that
>Finally get a drink, a "Health Potion"
>Literally a fake strawberry pissed into some cheap vodka
>That'll be 15 dollars please
HAHA. No fucking wonder that place went belly up. Get me an extra tv screen and I have better fucking Mana Bar at home.
Cunts.
>>322435579
Yes, and its shit.
>>322436365
>retorts with the exact same insult
>not even original at all
>uses gif image because lack of imagination and creatively bankrupt
>"hurr this confused guy will show em"
Begone child I would make this an even fight between us but i'd have to remove my brain to fight squarely on your level.
>>322430170
Go live one when you're older than 16 and you'll see.
>>322436618
uh oh
did sombeody sayknack
>>322436650
Would you mind explaining why? I'd like to see what it is about it that you think is bad, because I'm genuinely curious.
>>322436414
>It's not a fedora
Oh well excuseeeeeee me princess, sorry I lack fedora knowledge. It looks like a fucking fedora and I'm sure it's part of the fedora family so fuck off.
Any hat that is a resemblance of a fedora makes you look like a beta faggot pleb.
>>322428417
Are you actually serious or are you using "cancer" in the internet sense?
>>322435864
Where was he talking about TW3, you giant fucking faggot?
>>322436787
Not my fault you're an uncultured faggot
>>322435362
My point is that too many good works, or potentially good works, of specific media get weakened by trying to emulate other media without regard to what works and what doesn't in the transfer.
Games are going to have pacing issues if you look at it from a literary perspective because everybody plays these things their own way, and at their own pace. To rob players of that agency for the sake of making it read better or be more cinematic is to make a dishonest game. The best game writing has story and design working in concert, not in conflict.
>>322436618
>ignored and served a shit drink
Blown the fuck out, next time don't be a fucking pansy.
>>322428417
Yahtzee has cancer?
Source
Yes and no. No in that I fucking hate open world/sandbox style games, but yes in that games ought to be striving to push in directions that were previously not possible. Just not necessarily in the way he's suggesting, though it is a way I suppose. Still, I feel like a lot of this current gen has just been a 7th gen remix but fuck if I know what bold, new frontiers vidya should push in. If I did, I'd probably be making more money than I am now. Only thing I really see on the horizon is VR and...well,
>VR
>>322436459
I was playing JC2 and JC3 today and the only things JC3 has over JC2 are the graphics, the physics & the wingsuit is admittedly very satisfying.
That aside though JC2 is better in pretty much every way. It has the minimap, visible health bar, better framerate, more settlements, more enviconmental variety more destructible objects, more vehicles, more secrets which promotes more exploration etc.
I like 3 and feel like they deserved the purchase after all the hours of fun I got out of 2 but I'll probably just stick with 2 in the future when I want my JC fix.
>>322436973
>Uncultured faggot
Yeah when it comes to Fedora's, which by the way are for faggots so I would expect only someone who likes them and wears them all the time would be cultured in them.
I'd rather not be cultured in something so retarded.
>>322437016
>The best game writing has story and design working in concert, not in conflict.
Then give an example? The one people used to bring up a lot is Two Brothers, but the fact is the player only cares because they control the characters, otherwise the story would be seen as overly sapped and trying to force an emotion from the audience.
>>322437397
>Bunch of faggots start using something they know nothing about as a symbol
>Now everyone who wears one, or knows anything about them is one of those faggots
Come on anon
>>322436414
"the look" was never good in the first place. I can't help but cringe whenever I see waistcoat-toting, brogue-wearing motherfuckers. I see so many of these fucks every day atart school.
>"You're mad just because I dress well? Ha!
Your kind look very, very silly. Everybody is laughing at you.Everyone.
>>322437585
Well yeah, look at the swastika. Ruined forever in the west despite being a 2 millenia-old symbol.
>>322434813
But Bloodborne is actually fun to explore, and has interesting lore and really good gameplay
All Just Cause has is explosions
>>322437609
>"the look" was never good in the first place.
What about the 30s? The Elliot Ness days.
>>322436973
>Not my fault you're an uncultured faggot
>>322437609
>art school
>>322437672
Exactly but it shouldn't be.
>>322436085
Come now anon, this is an opportunity to pick apart his argument and explain clearly why he's wrong, not just state that he is.
In essence his argument is that AAA game developers have persisted in a trend of updating graphics capabilities, but not really updating gameplay. Thus they should focus on puting those graphics as entertaining as possible, and that means making games with lots of explosions that look cool, as opposed to trying to accurately model human faces where we get into uncanny valley, or prettily textured rooms with nothing much to do.
Inadvertently, he's mocking AAA stagnation and stating that indie games, notorious for their lack focus on advanced graphics, are doing everything but graphics better. More openly, he's mocking "interactive movie" type games that go for hyper realistic graphics but kind of loose most of the game aspect along the way.
At first it looks like a fine enough argument. AAA doesn't innovate in anything but graphics so make the graphics really cool and make them do interesting things. However, this is also a toxic concept, and it ignores the progress AAA games attempt to make.
True, there is still a long ways to go, but several AAA games are pushing boundaries and trying to elevate the quality of games. Fallout 4, buggy and shite as it is, does try a few new things. It attempts to improve immersion (though in many ways it fails), it attempts to make your companions more well rounded characters (though they are still shallow and idiotic), it attempts to make the player a force of change in the world in ways the series hadn't previously attempted (though again in a shallow and unimpressive way). Yes, it is flawed, but it is an attempt and in that, worthy of praise. And this is just one of several games that try to branch out and provide a better/new experience.
His argument is that of a pessimistic shithead who doesn't believe AAA gaming can improve so it learn to stagnate better, rather than try to improve.
>>322437672
This is a good point, Hitler used an archaic symbol that use to represent peace and harmony and then inverted it, now the symbol is ruined forever and will only be associated with death, destruction, Hitler and Nazi's.
>>322437865
Kek
>>322436973
>Not my fault you're an uncultured faggot
Pic related is you
>>322435852
I fuckin loved 3, whats wrong with you
>>322437776
Fine. It looks good on Picard's holodeck. Dressing like a 1940's gangster might seem cool in theory, but the problem is that you're not a 1940's gangster. You're a lanky fuck wearing a suit and silly hat.
>>322438043
>Typing out all that shit
I'm not reading all that shit anon
>>322433132
R.A Salvatore wrote Amalur and see how well the game did... even if they hire a good writer the studios want casualized shit
But Just Cause 3 sucks
For every step forward it makes in new features, it takes two steps backwards in poor performance and game design.
>>322438348
It's like three paragraphs. It's not even a wall of text.
>>322438006
It's audio engineering. it's more academic than the faggots that paint shit, but it's grouped in there for whatever reason.
>>322438487
Is this image trying to imply Mad Max is good?
>>322438626
it means that while the JC2 team was busy making Mad Max, a bunch of greenhorns designed JC3 which is why it sucks
>>322438043
Oh, games ATTEMPTED to make progress. Good for fucking them, but in the end, what I want when I get a game is to enjoy the product. If I had to sacrifice graphics to have my socks blown off with the experience, everyone should take that instead.
Look at Battlefield, or The Order. Both look pretty, sure, but they were half assed games nobody cares about anymore. If we put graphics first, then most games will end up this way.
>>322437430
If it works, it works
I mean just because something doesn't work in a medium thats different from its origin doesn't make it bad
A breaking bad video game would suck for example, you would spend most of your "playtime" would be laying low and planning or making meth.
>whas de mattur gaiz?
>dis might be traable. and I laaek traable.
>aaaauwch!
>>322438959
>If it works, it works
That just means people are easily emotionally manipulated. It's the same people who watch Clannad and say it's the saddest anime ever.
>I mean just because something doesn't work in a medium thats different from its origin doesn't make it bad
Books are the one medium that transfer well into practically any other because their story structure means you don't have to rip apart or compress it to make it work.
>A breaking bad video game would suck for example, you would spend most of your "playtime" would be laying low and planning or making meth.
tv shows are not books, I never implied they were
>>322436973
*tips not-fedora*
Good sir, I too understand your suffering as a fellow cultured gentleman. You need not bother with these imbeciles and their misinformed opinions: they are but plebs while we are cream de le cream of society. This diamond dozen simpletons will never understand the vast and complex world of fedoras like we classy gentlemen do.
>>322438959
>Cooking Daddy
Sounds good to me.
I miss the days when fedoras were just associated with atheists that were bitter towards women not dating them. Now it just applies to literally anything vaguely intellectual.It also proves just how much this place is infested with reddit because that meme came from there. THEY'RE supposed to steal OUR memes, not the other way around
>>322428362
You know /v/ has gone full post-modern when fun is now a meme
I have 40 hours logged on just cause 3 after a week
Shit is so cash, one of my favorite games in very long time
>>322436618
Sunshine coast? or down south?
It bums me out that Mass Effect is probably the most iconic example of video game storytelling.
>>322436973
>>322440265
Don't worry anon, that honor goes to Skyrim
>>322439859
In this context, "FUN" is definitely a meme, or at least a buzzword. Something can be objectively bad, but "ITS OK BECAUSE ITS FUUUUUN!! DO YOU HATE FUN OR SOMETHING?? HAHA LOOK AT THE FUN HATING LOSER!!".
Playing with my tiny dick is also fun, so by that logic, paying 60$ for the right to wank is a worthwhile purchase.
>>322437430
It sounds like we just have differing opinions on this, because you seem to be saying that the involvement of the player in how things play out seems like a manipulative trick, but it's pretty central to what I'm getting at.
Take the scene near the end of MGS3 where Snake has to pull the trigger. In MGS1, a similar scene plays out entirely in a cutscene, passive as a movie. In MGS3, the letterboxing of the cutscenes disappears, making it clear to the player that they have to push the button and become complicit in the killing. Some people will click right through, but some people will wait awhile, try some other inputs to no avail, and steel themselves first, depending on their level of investment. That involvement is the very thing that games do better than most other media. "He needs to do this" becomes "I need to do this" and that's not a dynamic other media can pull off. Manipulative sure, but also revealing about the person at the controls. Books need to be descriptive because they're filling in what isn't there, games (ideally) need you to be involved so that you're invested. It's more egocentric, but I'd argue they need to be to do what they excel at. (This is also why FAQs ruin so many games, but that's another discussion altogether)
>>322440561
Well if you're enjoying yourself and liking playing the game, wouldn't that make it money well spent?
>used steam sharing on a friends account who actually bought it
>played for five hours
>the only improvement over 2 is the wingsuit, and that doesn't warrant enough
It's the exact same fucking game as 2, but with a wingsuit. The graphics are mediocre to be able to run on consoles and EVEN THEN IT RUNS LIKE SHIT ON THEM. It's also got the same problem as two were the progression is so fucked and frustrating
>missions being gated by liberation outposts
>spend 40 minutes trying to liberate an outpost because I missed one generator somewhere holding back the last 5% completion
It's the exact same thing as two. It get's boring fast.
And all of this is coming from one of the dozen people who actually played Just Cause 1 on release, played Just Cause 2 on release, and was loosely involved with Trix and co. the guys who made the Just Cause 2 Multiplayer mod.
>>322440606
My argument is that if the characters are written such that I don't care what happens to them, then me pulling the trigger or the game doing it is irrelevant.
Listen you fucks
Bottom line
A video game needs to be fun, before anything else
>>322440561
Assuming a world where you can't jerk it without paying 60 bucks, I'd say that's a bargain for infinite jerks. Per jerk is not that great. That's 2 - 30 minutes of fun. Eh.
>>322440535
>>322440606
>In MGS3, the letterboxing of the cutscenes disappears, making it clear to the player that they have to push the button and become complicit in the killing. Some people will click right through, but some people will wait awhile, try some other inputs to no avail, and steel themselves first, depending on their level of investment. That involvement is the very thing that games do better than most other media. "He needs to do this" becomes "I need to do this" and that's not a dynamic other media can pull off.
You're ignoring that you just spent a whole boss battle trying to kill her in the first place. You having to finish her off is nothing more than just finishing the fight, and are overthinking this.
>>322440871
A video game needs to be enjoyable. Fun implies a light-hearted aspect that you wouldn't see in Resident Evil or the like.
>>322430364
>Yahtzee literally got nothing but flash tier games under his hand.
and a bunch of novels.
and a bar he owns.
>>322441083
Fun literally means that it produces enjoyment out of the one playing.
>>322430364
>Markplier eclipses him
As he does 99% of all youtubers.
>>322438283
He's not twelve.
>>322439285
My argument is not all great stories translate to good games and your argument is
>b-but books!
Whoop de doo books translate across mediums well, that doesn't prove jack shit, besides if you think pride and prejudice or the great Gatsby would be excellent games your deluded
>>322430170
He's also a published author.
>>322432537
>Pillars of Eternity
>AAA
>>322441357
>My argument is not all great stories translate to good games
No, but generally, BOOKS HAVE MORE TALENTED WRITERS
That has been my point this entire time. That the videogame industry's writers is mostly hacks, and average people at best.
>>322441438
Yes, Obsidian is AAA
They made New Vegas ffs
So has anyone here played his new game? It looks kind of shit but it seems interesting, like a video game version of Arkham Horror. I can't tell if the good reviews are because it's a good game or because people are stroking his dick
>>322441565
You know AAA purely means how much money was put into the game's production, right?
>>322441498
>but generally, BOOKS HAVE MORE TALENTED WRITERS
Not when we're taking into account YA's bulk they don't.
desu if i had to pick between explosions and ellen page i'd take the later
shes a liberal kook but i mean i'd suck her boyfriends penis
>>322440858
Yeah, I don't see it that way at all. But I understand where you're coming from.
>>322441030
Well, like I said, some people will see it that way and just click on through. It's also possible I just get more involved in the games I play than others do, so the moments where I'm given control or choice have more weight to me.
>You're overthinking this.
Also possible.
>>322441619
Check out his and Gabe's videos of it
>>322435362
It's less that the writers dont't understand and more that they're hamstrung by the limitations of the medium. In conflict with a well written narrative is the fact that games need to have a bloated run time in order to offer a good dollar to value ratio and the fact that writers need work around large portions of gameplay that are simply meant to offer mechanical enjoyment, not serve the narrative.
>>322441664
You realize that's the level of quality most games with the "best" stories are at, right?
Interactive fiction has given us some of the greatest integration of game design and interesting story there's ever been. But the interactive fiction community is way too eager to distance themselves from the "game" label altogether.
>>322441006
Oh don't worry I'm just pulling your leg
It actually goes to Last of Us and Bioshock Infinite
>>322434648
just curious, how are your genes fucked up/insane?
>>322430364
>Yahtzee literally got nothing but flash tier games under his hand.
But he's actually made games. What the fuck kind of qualification is having a wife and kid for reviewing video games? My dad fits that criteria, and he doesn't know jack shit about video games.
>>322441619
Bit of both. It looks like shit and you know that the reason most people checked out that MS Paint gradient bullshit is because of its creator, but the game itself is good. Bought it. It's good. Challenges are fucking hard.
>>322434648
>>read that Prototype is about a guy whos genes are fucked up by the human experimentserformed at the Govt Fort just putside Fredrick, MD
>>Apparently the final pevel takes place in Fredrick
I don't know where you read that but neither of those things are true.
>>322441767
>the fact that games need to have a bloated run time in order to offer a good dollar to value ratio
VALUEFAG FUCK OFF
>>322441767
The why do even VN writers generally not have great writing? That's literally all story.
>>322440682
Enjoyment is one thing. A fulfilling experience is another. Lasting appeal is also important.
In Just Cause 2, I was constantly exploring the incredibly varied map looking for new things to ramp off or new vehicles to try out, and it's still fun to this day.
In Just Cause 3, the only thing to do is destroy the same boring satellite dishes, fuel tanks and generators in the same boring way, in the same boring environment. The main "city" is literally the size of a small village, there's no civilian airport and there's a pathetically small amount of vehicles to choose from.
Sure, blowing up a big base is fun the first few times, but that's literally the whole game. It's "fun" but not enjoyable.
![eee020a151a4ffae47f3619a4b80e41b_400x400[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hRMfEFu.jpg "eee020a151a4ffae47f3619a4b80e41b_400x400[1].jpg")
>>322441983
>implying anything else matters
>>322441848
>neurological malwiring
>tourettes syndrome
>guaranteed cancer by 60
>anxiety disorder (this one is actually fatal thanks to the combo of social anxiety and tourettes)
>severly diminished ability to form muscle
>fucked up senses (ex. - no sense of smell, but fickle as fuck tongue)
It doesmt help that both sides of my family are ridden with incest and late in life births
>>322442116
I'd rather have a really good 5 hour game that's nice and solid than a 40 hour one where I spend a lot of time meandering around.
>>322441030
In mgs you don't normally HAVE to kill anything, the previous boss kill themselves so its really their own fault, the boss HAS to be killed.
This is what makes arguing video games can invoke feelings, the moment vidya succeeds at making people feel something someone's like "stop overthinking it" the boss was like a mother to snake and he put a bullet in her head, shes not a random enemy.
Its really not overthinking to make observation that its a tragic moment.
>>322438945
Yes, flawed attempts were made, and yes, we should want better products. The only way we'll get them is by encouraging the efforts that get us closer to our desired end goal.
We seem to generally be in agreement on the idea that AAA games should not stagnate and focus on prettier explosions while ignoring advancements in actual gameplay.
If you have an example or two of recent games that have made significant progress in some aspect of gameplay, please do share.
Elsewise we're left with the products currently available and how we choose to evaluate them. On the one hand, we can see their flaws and say they were utter failures. In certain cases, this is absolutely warranted, particularly if they are the sorts of games that focus on graphics and ignore gameplay and overall experience. On the other hand, we can look at games that are flawed but try to appreciate the intention and encourage further attempts to improve. Postivity, even towards an imperfect product, is not a bad thing.
>>322442184
Damn dude, that blows.
I basically agree, I far prefer more TECHNOLOGY to make the world living and immersive than just graphics.
>>322442259
>Its really not overthinking to make observation that its a tragic moment.
I'll commend you for actually using the word tragic correctly, in that a character's downfall is brought about by some inherent quality that they can't separate from themselves yet is poisonous to their life (in The Boss's case, her loyalty to her country).
But I still think it's just melodramatic and playing on people's emotions.
>>322437609
I think waistcoats can look pretty good.
I mean, I couldn't pull it off, at best I might look like a bouncer at some fancy clubwhich I know for a fact, having done exactly that, but it looks nice on some people.
>>322442352
>If you have an example or two of recent games that have made significant progress in some aspect of gameplay, please do share.
J. E. Sawyer's valiant effort to reduce min-maxing while designing the leveling system for Pillars of Eternity, and Undertale's mish-mashing of JRPG and bullethell gameplay
>>322442082
I don't share that opinion but it is almost seen as a requirement for just about any big budget title.
>>322442259
>the previous boss kill themselves
I thought their bodies were rigged to explode in the event of severe bodily harm, in order to safeguard any secrets? Aside from The End.
>>322442201
I think I agree. Utils/hour might be a better than total utility over the game's playtime. However, this becomes difficult when you have a "dense" game that gives you a lot of utility, but has a short life span (5-hour game), compared to a game that has higher total utility over 40 hours. Both games cost the same. I guess we could just discount future utility.
>>322443013
The advantage of a dense short game is it encourages playing it through multiple times.
A long game, even if it's a good one, is hard to start up a whole new playthrough. Unless you're like me and play through FFVII-X the whole way every year.
>>322437609
That's the thing too, you can look classy without being fucking dated.
It's twice as bad because their attempt to look classy becomes transparent in addition to being bad.
Half of them can't even get the right sizing for the garbage they choose to wear anyway.
>>322441083
>Fun implies a light-hearted aspect that you wouldn't see in Resident Evil or the like
Says who? I find solving puzzles in Resident Evil fun. I also find slicing people to bits in Prototype fun, and running over old people in GTA, and blowing shit up in Just Cause 3.
>noun
>1. something that provides mirth or amusement:
>A picnic would be fun.
>2. enjoyment or playfulness:
>She's full of fun.
>>322430364
He has an american girlfriend, and his fat butt buddy gabriel.
>>322442082
Because virtual novels are generally just meant to be cheap fap material.
>>322443484
Not all VNs are eroge.
>>322443484
And that's an excuse? The Rance series, while the stories are pretty much just anime cliches, is one of the most extensive and well thought-out examples of worldbuilding in a jrpg.
>>322428362
Not if done right. It has to have a great soundtrack and a decent story with some wit to keep you engaged.
First Borderlands did it pretty well, not perfect, but it did it as far as you can ride that train while pushing the wacky and zany angle while still trying to keep a semi serious face
Second Borderlands and beyond did an oh so terrible job at it.
>LE DIAMOND PONY LELELELEL THIS IS GOING TO BE SO MEMEWORTHY GAIZ LE UPBOATS ON REDDIT PLS :^D
also,
>adhear
>>322443221
>Fun
>noun
>1. enjoyment, amusement, or lighthearted pleasure.
>"the children were having fun in the play area"
Fun can mean a wide variety of things, but it definitely does have a light-hearted connotation, and it seems most people are saying it's not the case as a response to clowns that want to turn video games into their propaganda machine.
>>322443210
Don't get me wrong, I know nothing about style or fashion. The only clothes I own are five pairs of the same black cargo trousers, some jeans that I never wear, a pair of three year old Airwalk shoes, some hoodies that I got when I was still in school and a billion printed t-shirts.
But what I don't do, is wear something completely unsuited to my appearance under the pretence of "class".
And the funny thing is, my attitude of not giving a shit is rewarded by the hipsters that I share a course with, because they think it's ironic or humble or some shit.
>>322430170
So he also develops games and writes for a living.
>>322444594
>people are saying it's not the case as a response to clowns that want to turn video games into their propaganda machine.
This. I don't want the only two choices in game design to be Smash or Gone Home.
>>322443646
And someone will tell you it's shit because it doesn't measure up to Issac Asimov.
>>322443646
The Rance games aren't VNs, shitdick.
>>322444998
But I'm that same person.
>>322444758
Shut up, fattie.
>>322444448
>tfw almost got
the pressure would've been huge
>>322445090
Open down, skinny.
>>322435362
>He was a good writer because the universes he wrote were believable places filled with what felt like real people that acted like human beings.
Pretty difficult to do when most games require your characters to be superhuman killing machines or disposable cannon fodder.
>>322445387
True, his whole thing was that he didn't like the hero of adventure who was stronger than everyone, he liked characters who used their wits to win the day.
Which works in point and click games, but not too much else.
>>322436650
Yeah, you totally read Foundation.
>It's shit
Excellent argument right there.
>>322435558
is this from huber hype
>>322435218
20-30 hours is not all at once. You can't just draw or whatever for 30 straight hours and become good, the hours are cumulative over long stretches of time. Practice also suffers from diminishing returns, you don't improve unless you face challenges, which people could avoid for however long they practice, hence why there are so many shit deviantart artists with hundreds of hours under their belt.
he's not but he makes sentences that sound cool so some respect his opinion
not me
>>322444926
>games
well, "games" anyway. They suck so bad he has to do lets plays of them to get them attention
>>322434913
>I want to write
Do you read, anon?
>>322445891
>>322436764
https://warosu.org/lit/thread/S7305237Not my post, as I don't think Foundation is shit, but I was reminded that legit criticism exists.
