Is Mardek the new Undertale?
Dammit PLW
>>322271015
Shilling on /v/ should be a criminal offense
>>322271015
I hope not. It doesn't look nearly as charming or interesting as Undertale, and looks to have only peace-related combat.
People like undertale because of its subversion of RPG mechanics.
Something like subversion can't be recaptured, nothing will be "the new undertale" because undertale already did the subversive RPG thing.
"The new undertale" will be just as much a surprise as undertale was. It won't be an undertale-like.
>>322271015
mardek looks generic as fuck, at least undertale has some shred of originality
>>322271015
Can you even play the new "Mardek" without a phone? I was really interested in the old series and this reboot caught my eye
>>322271015
Fuck off Pseudo, go jerk yourself to the Myers Briggs test again you fagoo and make a game about how extroverts are the devil and introverts are the master race, see how well that shit will do compared to the original mardek series or Beast Signer.
>>322271413
>original
Lol, go back Leddit.
>>322271685
every bait deserves a (you)
>>322271015
>Mardek
Fuck you for making me google this shit. Congrats on finding something more autistic than Undertale.
>>322271396
>People like undertale because of its subversion of RPG mechanics
>>322271396
Nail on the head. This is why any attempts to imitate Undertale will fail.
>>322271882
Yeah go fuck yourself retard
>>322271015
What exactly is the similarity here, other than them both being top down RPGs?
>>322272554
I'll correct that anon.
Undertale was good because of it's subversion of RPG mechanics.
People like it for skeleton dick and goat milfs.
>>322272874
Rude.
>>322273123
Undertale was good for its storytelling, the subverted mechanics just helped the story really, really well. Subverting genres has been done in vidya many times before, what makes Undertale special is that it actually did it to enhance the story instead of just fuck around (for the most part anyway, there are still random gags here and there).
>>322273364
It couldn't have told that story without subverting the mechanics though. The story IS subverting mechanics.
>>322274824
I ain't even gonna go into this shit again but there WAS a central story/theme outside of just subverting the mechanics. I've explained it in about a dozen threads and now I just feel like an asshat for trying.
>>322271396
>Something like subversion can't be recaptured
Undertale is not the first game nor will it be the last game to deconstruct tropes and use metanarrative you insufferable faggot
>>322275070
I'm aware that there was a story that wasn't part of the mechanics, but it wouldn't have had the impact it had if the mechanics weren't present. It would only have been a fraction of what it was. It's an OK story by itself, but the mechanics being used how they were is what made it a great story.
But I understand if you'd rather drop it and I won't hold it against you. I know it's tiring to repeat the same points over and over again.
>>322271396
It's not hard to repeat Undertale.
Just take a unpopular genre, twist it up a bit, and instead of a story, focus on wacky characters with hints of stupid Tumblr shit like transgender and autism and it's good to go. Bonus points if you pander to furries.
Though, Undertale's soundtrack is quite one of a kind.
>>322276907
Here's a (you) for either pretending to play the game, or playing the game and being too stupid to get it.
>>322277110
Then explain it to me if you're so intelligent.
>>322277494
Okay. What do you need explained to you?
>>322275189
OK, but it wasn't made to be similar to other deconstructions or subersive RPGs. It was made to do its own thing and subverted RPGs incidentally. That's why it's unique and memorable. Anything that attempts to do the same thing as Undertale with any inspiration from Undertale will probably come off as stale as they won't be genuine.
>>322277739
What I supposedly didn't get.I'm gonna assume you were referring to the Tumblr shit remark.
They will happen though...
>>322277494
Saying Undertale is Tumblr/SJW pandering is plain falsehood, anything that can be construed as proof has been done and surpassed before in normal, well-received games. It's a meme opinion, the only reason anyone would hold it seriously is because it was repeated so many times for shitposting.
I mean, even Breitbart Tech gave the game a favorable review, and it's their fucking job to keep on the lookout for the liberal mental illness pandering menace.
>>322271015
By all means I hope it is.
Take all the faggots who are only interested because it's the hot new thing, let them throw shit at each other over another game.
>this game talks about leveling up and this other game talks about leveling up therefore they are equal
Cut the crap you are just trying to shill you dumb fucking autist.
>>322279313
The only thing that bothered me in that respect isAlphys being bi. Comes out of nowhere and feels super forced.
>>322278320
Well that's pretty vague but I guess it can't be helped. I'll do my best.
First of all, you mention that instead of focusing on story that you should focus on wacky characters. That would be a rather colossal mistake since you can't sustain an interest in a character with simply how wacky they are. The characters are in general pretty weird, and especially the skeleton brothers are introduced as wacky. Their introduced in a humorous manner which catches your attention, but then it slowly begins to tell your their story and who they are now that you're paying attention. Their character is what draws you in, but their story and their place in the grander scheme of things is what makes people like them.
Should I go on to a different point? Did that help at all? I would like some feed back so I know if I'm going in the right direction or not.
>>322279892
She's your average anime nerd who goes on about how much she loves an anime catgirl. Otherwise she would be more into gay dudes.
>>322271396
I think a lot of people like Undertale because of the story and characters, which is easily replicatable with time.
>>322279892
She's what's expected from a desperate bi.
Initially has a crush for goatdad, but that wasn't gonna happen cause he's damaged goods. She settles for the fish bitch because she craves for a meaningful relationship.
>>322273364
Sorry but the story of Undertale sucked dick
I got some enjoyment because of the unique combat style and music
I honestly don't know how you can like Undertales story
>>322280029
Huh, wasn't expecting a fleshed out argument that actually makes some good points.
Thanks for informing me anon.
>>322280467
>>322280736
Story and characters have not inherent value by themselves. Presentation is what makes or breaks a story.
Boy do I not get people who got excited by Undertale. It has some charming things about it, but it's joined together by a sloppy, mechanically uninteresting RPG maker game that I can't understand praising on any level
>>322281134
Well yeah, that kind of goes without saying though, doesn't it?
>>322280829
Glad to help. As for the tumblr shit there's no denying that there are definitely themes that tumblr likes in it. But if you're not either A) a SJW desperately seeking those things out or B) an anti-SJW who froths at the mouth whenever anything can be seen as slightly progressive, then those things aren't really bad or good. They just are things. Elements of the story, details that aren't really important in the grand scheme of things.
>>322281134
The presentation didn't do anything for me because the story was cliché and the characters ,while being whacky XD, rarely had depth when the story needed them too
Really I just assume most people that love this game have lived in a fucking cave and never played many games, watched many movies or read many books
Praise the soundtrack or combat. I can understand that. Praising the story or characters and the boring way they are presented makes you look autistic
>>322281252
Too many people say stuff like "The story and the characters are what's good!" while completely ignoring that the story wouldn't have been that great if the presentation wasn't so phenomenal. And a major part of the presentation was in the gameplay. Almost every action you make in the game is a choice presented by gameplay, but they are subtle choices and not PICK A OR B so most people don't even recognize them as choices.
>>322281906
A good point, though in relation to the original post, I don't think fun elements like that can't be recreated in another game. Maybe not in a "subversive RPG" sort of way, but still, they're fun gameplay elements that can be expanded on.
>>322281906
>subtle choices
>like 5 minutes in you have to decide to spare or kill goatmom who you've known for a couple minutes
Damn that one really sneaked by me
It didn't even feel like a video game because it was so subtle
you mean theres another shitty game being made popular by mlp fans?
>>322272581
This is amusing to me because Undertake itself is an immitation of another game. Well a couple technically but an immitation no less.
>>322280263
>Otherwise she would be more into gay dudes
She designed Mettaton's Ex-form, who turned out to not be what she was expecting. Although having a robot you made fall in love with you would be really weird too.
>>322280556
I was seriously expecting her to try with Mettaton again.
Also I think Undyne being gay kind of works against her; how stereotypically lesbian can you get than a butch, super masculine spear chucking warrior woman?
>>322281808
Hey, thanks for the (you). I'm curious though. I disagree, but articulating my thoughts would be easier if I had more information about your play experience since a lot of people experience the game differently. So I kind of want to know if there were any major parts that stuck out to you as bad.
>>322271015
Why did he reboot Mardek? It didn't need a reboot, it just needed fucking closure
>>322282061
I'm going to refrain from ridiculing you since that just stymies discussion.
But did it never occur to you that
>most people don't even recognize them as choices.
may in fact include you not recognizing some choices because they were too subtle for you?
>>322282123
Which games?
>>322282537
I did overall like the game well enough but there are numerous parts that just irritate me.
It might be my personal tastes but the option to spare or kill everything just seemed pointless and not much of a choice. You pretty much decide at goatmom whether you kill or spare. Having the option passed that just seems redundant. Reminds me of Bioshock where you could kill the little sister #7 after saving the last 6 but why would you want to?
Other parts that irked me
>spiderboss with no real backstory other than to be a boss in a video game
>equipment in general just seemed to be a waste of time/effort
>some characters you are forced to pick spare or kill without given sufficient motivation to do either in a story sense
>muddled character motivations (why did the king want to leave so bad? monster world seemed fine)
>puzzles in the hotworld just seemed awkward
Also in general I don't like breaking the 4th wall. It always seems so tacky. In addition the whole backstory of save states and whatnot just seemed extraneous to the main story of escaping a monster world and meeting new people.
>>322283119
What is Earthbound for 1000, Alex.
Games deconstructing RPGs have existed almost as long as RPGs have. That being said, Earthbound and Undertale both do a very good job of it in their own way, whereas OPs horseshit just lampshades RPG conventions in incredibly hamfisted dialogue, which is neither clever nor interesting.
>>322283491
It's not an imitation at all though. It's inspired by, but not an imitation. They are fundamentally different enough that you can play both and you will get a different experience from each.
>>322271015
The old Mardek games were based as fuck. What the hell happened?
>>322283429
To be fair, the nice thing about that mechanic is that it's NOT just spare or kill. People will catch on to the fact that you can spare the boss enemies, and in most games, that would lead to the "good" ending. In Undertale, you also have to spare all the random encounters, since if you kill anyone at all, you're denied the good ending. Just having a good/neutral/evil ending is enough to justify the mechanic.
>>322283429
Oh, and
>muddled character motivations (why did the king want to leave so bad? monster world seemed fine)
The underworld sucks. The monsters are trapped there and feel inferior to humans as a result. Asgore wants to give his people hope.
>>322283689
I remember seeing the guys blog about how much he hated mardek and humanity in general, I guess that happened
>>322271015
> Mardek
LOL LEVEL UP SO WE CAN BEAT MORE MONSTERS AMIRIGHT
> Undertale
Hey, defeat monsters so you can gain LV
Oh wait LV actually means Level of Violence, you fucking psychopath genocide lover.
>>322283649
Eh, I'm not going to get into "homage" vs. "ripping off", because I don't have a dog in that fight. The "inspiration" from Earthbound is obvious to anyone that's played both games, and there's no way Undertale would exist without Earthbound. Is Star Wars fundamentally different from Kurosawa? Absolutely. But Lucas was definitely still imitating him.
>>322283429
>spiderboss with no real backstory other than to be a boss in a video game
This is true, but she was a backer character added in the kick starter so that explains that.
But before I go any further, this needs to be addressed.
>Also in general I don't like breaking the 4th wall.
Undertale's entire premise is breaking the 4th wall. I can understand if you're not a fan of that, but calling people autistic because they like something you don't like is just shit posting.
I don't mind discussing more of the points you made, but is that going to be worth while? I will if you'd like me to, but right now I'm just getting a "Stop liking what I don't like" vibe.
>>322283815
>The underworld sucks
You are never really given any reason to think so
You don't get a general idea of how big the underworld is (is it fucking huge? I dont know) and in general it seems like the people of underworld dont care much. Most of them seem happy enough
>>322283491
Have you played undertale?
The closest it gets to earthbound is it having pixel art.
You're providing a disservice to undertale AND earthbound by comparing them.
It's like those faggots that compare Xenoblade with FFXV.
>>322284118
This is wrong though. Several NPCs in Snowdin discuss how everybody tries to keep a happy look about them so that they can keep hope despite how miserable life is, as well as mentioning how people are moving in from the city due to over crowding.
And remember Onionsan? They may seem like they didn't really have a point, but their entire existence is to help show that living in the underground can be pretty miserable and they desperately hope for freedom to the point in which it's the only thing that keeps some of them going.
>>322284118
Toriel says, right at the beginning, that the Ruins are a tiny place and nowhere for a child to grow up. You see the whole underworld. In a typical RPG, the town with three houses is >implied to be a marge larger town in reality; in Undertale, you visit the whole underworld. Which is why it's possible for you to genocide its inhabitants.
>>322284467
But what about all the fan messages for mettaton?
I thought that implied a much larger world.
>>322271015
I miss old mardek. why did he have to reboot the series?
>>322284590
The city is the only place that really isn't explored, but during a genocide run it's implied that Alphys evacuates all the remaining survivors to her lab.
Now imagine how many people could fit in her lab.
>>322284238
Uh... and being a massive deconstruction of RPGs from start to finish? Yeah, that and "pixel art" are the only thing they have in common. Also, an idiosyncratic battle system that mixes typical turn-based RPG combat with a real time aspect (in Earthbound, the health ticker, in Undertale, the bullet hell segments).
Honestly, that you missed their incredibly obvious similarity makes me wonder if you've played Earthbound.
>>322284590
I mean, the first caller is Napstablook. It's not hard to imagine that the other callers are all people we've seen or the generic monsters you genocide.
>>322284037
I have some points of disagreement, but I won't hold it against you if you aren't feeling up to discussing it.
>>322284792
Earthbound fucking wallows in traditional RPG mechanics though and never ventures past them. It's about as JRPG as a JRPG could be with the exception of weird shit like the health ticker being in real time and maybe the setting.
>>322284590
The area you walk through before you see Asgore is the main city where most of the monsters live. You don't get to explore it specifically but you visit literally every other point of interest including the smaller town of people who moved out of the city because it was too crowded, which is tiny and also implied to be very expensive.
Undyne implies she can't afford a house there and wonders how Papyrus can, and Papyrus just says Sans pays for it with tons of money he somehow has.
>>322271396
I hope "undertale-like" doesn't become a thing like souls-like
>>322284792
I feel that you're mistaking the similarities for being larger than they are. "Pixel art" is literally almost every video game that isn't 3D, bullet hell mechanics =/= rolling health bars, and the things they deconstruct are also different. This leaves nothing of the themes of the games.
>>322284972
I'll definitely say that Undertale goes way more outside the box, and it's a short indy game vs. Earthbound's full length RPG. They're obviously different games; I never claimed otherwise. But this thread has been about whether Undertale had a unique idea in subverting RPG conventions (it doesn't) and then whether it was imitating Earthbound (it is).
>>322281906
> but they are subtle choices and not PICK A OR B so most people don't even recognize them as choices.
big choices are very litterally PICK A OR B type scenarios, the fuck are you on about. You have to very intentionally play in a certain way to go on specific routes.
There's subtlety in dialogue changes upon repeat playthroughs and shit, not what you're talking about.
>>322285171
it's already "mother-like"
>>322285223
Again, only if you deliberately sidestep that they're both twee RPG deconstructions. That's the massive, obvious similarity, and it's literally the reason this entire conversation started.
>>322285467
Just like how there can be different kinds of RPGs, there can also be different kinds of RPG deconstructions.
>>322271396
>People like undertale because of its subversion of RPG mechanics.
Most people don't care about that, they just like the characters and the music and the story and the porn.
>>322271396
>People like undertale because of its subversion of RPG mechanics.
I just liked the music.
>>322285390
I feel confused by your post. You mention big choices while I'm talking about subtle choices and I'm just not sure what you're trying to say.
>not what you're talking about.
What is it that you think I'm talking about?
>>322271015
If you have to ask that question, then it's clearly not.
>>322271413
>shred of originality
not even a subtle bait
>>322271396
I get what you're saying and sort of agree. I don't think it can never be done again though. People just need a chance to cool off and forget about it a little. A few years down the road it will be doable again. I mean it's not the only reason people like Undertale, and a game that does things well regardless of if it subverts some nonsense or not will probably do well, but that aspect kind of has a cooldown.
>>322285626
Never argued otherwise. Again, it is not debatable that Undertale is a direct result of Earthbound - the creator is publicly a massive Earthbound fan. This isn't some fanon theory I'm inventing.
>>322271015
> this is what Mardek is now
i'm fucking crying
how can someone so talented be so fucking pants-on-head crazy
>>322285971
I simply disagree with how similar you believe them to be, to the level of imitation.
>>322284895
Is this the most reasonable poster on /v/ right now
>>322286090
if you looked at his site, he always had issues. He even noted that most of the people who liked his stuff had some kind of mental disorder.
>>322271015
>tumblr nose
>>>/tumblr/
>>322279892
>Feels super forced
She's literally in the game to make fun of tumblr user anime fans. Undyne is supposed to be a Reddit anime fan.
>>322281906
Choices? What fucking choices? The only choices you ever make is either not killing shit, killing everything, or something in between.
Stupid shit choices like that "butterscotch or cinnamon" question or any of the choices in the dates (wow, a whole single different line of dialogue!!!) are fucking worthless.
>>322286297
I'm well aware of it ever since I followed him in the old Newgrounds days.
I admired him for his absolute independence in execution. From soundtrack, to programming to art, to his whole website, everything was a solo project.
What disappointed me was that the dude himself has skin so fucking thin that you can see his internal organs. He also has this extremely unhealthy hatred of extroverts. Not just the stereotypical jock types, just extroverts in general.
>>322286226
I pointed out earlier that I just don't really care to distinguish between "imitation" and whatever it is Undertale is to Earthbound. Call it inspired by, an homage, whatever. I like Undertale, and I recognize it as a different game from Earthbound. But it's clearly the result of an Earthbound fan going, "hey, I should make my own game like Earthbound!" Or "I wish Earthbound did this instead!" Maybe he would have gotten the idea to deconstruct RPGs on his own, or from some other game that does it, but in our timeline, Toby got the idea from Earthbound, period.
>>322286512
He couldn't even leave his house or talk to people, guy had serious issues with communication
>>322286436
>>322282935
>I'm going to refrain from ridiculing you since that just stymies discussion
>>322286512
>He also has this extremely unhealthy hatred of extroverts. Not just the stereotypical jock types, just extroverts in general.
I didn't know that. makes me wonder why he made that one game about going out on a date.
>>322287135
> I didn't know that
hohoho you have no idea
On a side note, Clarence's Big Chance is seriously one of the more memorable platforming games I've ever played.
>>322285935
I think he just means an Undertale clone cannot be done, not that there's no way for another RPG to come out that tries to subvert RPGs.
>>322286793
wow nice you sure proved me wrong with those hot arguments
Greentexting you'd like to ridicule isn't any more or less productive than actually ridiculing, smartass.
Go on, post a single fucking choice that matters that doesn't involve meaningless shit like a different line of dialog, because modern that's literally all the choice modern RPGs give you. I'm waiting.
>>322287401
oh dear god, he made comics?
>>322287401
Top comic is rational, people like different things.
Bottom comic the lion thing was right. If you're being critiqued its probably because you should be improving yourself. If that's not the case then you should learn how to argue your points.
>>322287401
Does she fuck the horse thing
>>322287682
Neither are funny though, they're just textbox soapboxing
>>322287797
Yes, but I could probably fap to that elf.
>>322287401
to the second comic, I guess people just like to hear what they want
>>322287880
she has the oddest fucking hips
>>322271015
So many years waiting for chapter 4 and this shit happens.
Why?
>>322288331
creator is mentally ill
I DEMAND A CROSS-EXAMINATION THIS INSTANT
>>322287509
>choice that matters
This is the important part here, because what does and doesn't matter is subjective to each person.
>>322287401
I think the bottom one would be better if there was a third person that just said "Okay." and then they stared at each other for a bit.
>>322271396
I like Undertale because I love the characters and story and overall narrative.
>>322290025
>t. bioware fan
>>322290410
Well I could argue the point further, but you're trying to straw man me and it doesn't make it seem like it would be very worth while.
But you are trying to claim that dialogue isn't important in a story and character driven RPG, so the only rational response is to either say that we simply have fundamental disagreements about the issue or to insult you. And I'm trying not to insult you.
