https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6miaTf1gF4g
WHAT THE HELL HAPPEN? HOW COULD KOJIMA GIVE US MASTERPIECES like mgs 1and 2... then crap out shit like mgs3,4,,peace walker,5?
somebody please explain to me?
>>322036596
You put 3 in the wrong side of the comma.
All the MGS games are really bad. You should replay them and take of your nostalgia goggles.
Kojima has always been a hack and shit developer, it's time to accept it.
I enjoyed Peace Walker.
Kojima is senile
>>322036596
>>322036812
It's a troll post, bro
>>322036596
>crap out shit like peace walker
I remember the days when /v/ thought Peace Walker was as good as 1 and 3.
What happened? Did you all just continue to hate anything that's popular?
>>322037227
I've always thought Peace Walker was merely decent. It has some great parts, but most of the level design and enemy placement aren't enough to counter the fact the AI is abysmally stupid. The player is far too overpowered. Combine that with awful bosses and a weak, unnecessary story and there you go.
It's still better than 4 though.
>>322036905
This
>>322036596
If he only gave us two masterpieces. Wouldn't that make him a two hit wonder?
>>322036812
3 was the beginning of the end, for this great series.
>>322038508
I think 3 is a great game but I agree that it influenced the series for the worse.
>>322038508
>>322038724
3 was a meme game with awful fps.
>>322039076
Given how much slower-paced it is having less frames-per-second is the least of the game's problems.
>>322036596
Focusing on Big Boss was a mistake. The same problem George Lucas made with Anakin Skywalker.
>>322039395
Who should Lucas have focused on?
>>322039567
Luke. The prequels and the "Chosen One" plot were superfluous.
>>322039567
Why have made prequels in the first place? In fact he should have just not been such a pretentious faggot and just made Snake games like the majority of his stupid fanbase wanted anyways.
>>322039567Obi wan.
>>322039982
>The prequels were superfluous.
The prequels were poorly written, but not superfluous
>>322036596
the other writer was fired after 3
>>322040167
They were just backstory. Most of what they tell us we already knew or didn't need to know. The story of Vader's downfall was implicitly paralleled with Luke's own brush against the Dark Side. We didn't need to see it because we already got an example of the Dark Side's corruptive influence.
The story didn't need the prequels. They were superfluous.
Did people actually enjoy Sons of Liberty? I recently started the series (just finished Snake Eater) and SoL is easily the worst one so far. Story is decent though.
>>322040620
MGS2 is my favorite in the series, especially Substance.
>>322036905
Kill yourself
>>322040757
What did you like about it over the other games? I thought the boss fights were the worst in the series, and the tanker is such a boring environment to play through. Dat constant backtracking.
>>322040965
*plant is boring, not tanker
>>322040863
Fuck off you blind fanboy. I absolutely loved them, they were my favorite games of all time. I recently replayed them all in succession a week before release of TPP, and they all sort of sucked. They were not as good as I remembered. Ironically, the best ones were the ones with a sort of normal plot to it, like MGS3, and the focus on the gameplay.
They were all poorly written, terrible gameplay, and some really bad design decisions in hindsight. May have worked at the time buy certainly not now. MGS was written for kids who wouldn't pay attention as much, but now that we're older you can see through all the shit.
>>322040965
Tight, balanced gameplay that maintains tense and fast-paced. It avoids the lop-sided issues of MGS1 and avoids the balancing issues of MGS3. The story is by far the most thoughtful and meticulously-constructed in the series, too, albeit the presentation of it is occasionally obstructive.
The bosses aren't really much worse than MGS1's. MGS1 just had more memorable characters. I like the Harrier fight and the Solidus fight a great deal, but I can see where you're coming from.
Backtracking didn't bother me. Wasn't much worse (if at all) in that regard than Metal Gear 2 or the original Metal Gear Solid.
>>322040136
This.
The prequels should have been Mad Max in the Star Wars universe starring Obi Wan or some other Jedi from way before.
Him going around fucking around doing mercenary work as an exiled Jedi or something, adventuring and shit. Basically Kyle Katarn I guess.
>>322041641
And to add, they're all the same fucking game. Each one rips off the story of MGS1 and alters it slightly. I get sequels can do that, but I personally think that's really lazy and that they were afraid to deviate too much from the status quo.
When they did we got MGSV...
>>322042134
Not really. Compared to many video game series each game is substantially different. The only real exception is Metal Gear 2 and Metal Gear Solid 1. But even those two are markedly different in many key ways.
>>322036596
Go home drk29, nobody actually likes you, you're just a meme
>>322042340
Go play each one and tell me they all don't have the same story structure.
>>322042528
To a point. But they also emphasize a variety of thematic material with an equally wide variety of characters.
>>322041890
I get where you're coming from about balancing. I also agree it had the best story.
>>322041641
Shit taste incarnate
Fuck off
>>322041641
Fuck off back to Reddit
>>322042847
Except all the characters save for a few fall into the same category as ones from previous games.
For example, all boss characters adhere to the original type of bosses in MGS1.
It just feels like they were too afraid to do anything completely different.
As I playing through each game I started to really dislike the games. Everything from the story, gameplay design, programming, etc. It all felt like I was overhyped on the memory of what I played, rather than the actual truth of what they were.
>>322041641
How is the writing bad?
People always say this but they can't come up with reasons as to why.
>>322043821
Or you just have shit taste.
>>322043838
Dude just play through the game or watch a youtube video. The way it is written is bad, which could be a translation issue but still.
A lot of it is really cheesy, and there's a lot of repetition ( the constant need to restate the obvious, restate what they're talking about, and keep saying the name of something, even in the same sentence)
For example:
The IBM missile is launching and then the IBM missile will hit the white house, causing the IBM missile to explode.
Instead of just writing is as
The IBM missile is launching and will hit the white house, causing an explosion.
>>322043821
>For example, all boss characters adhere to the original type of bosses in MGS1.
Not really.
>It just feels like they were too afraid to do anything completely different
But they are pretty different. They all mostly revolve around stopping some kind of nuclear threat, and the whole series has an underlying anti-war message, but in general they're very different. Your criticisms are more appropriate for something like Zelda.
>>322043821
That's funny, I just played MGS3 recently and I loved every second of it.
It still has the best ending out of any game I've ever played.
>>322043950
>>322043719
>>322043434
So any opinion other than what /v/ establishes is automatically reddit tier? I've been on this board since before any of you, I can guarantee it.
Look, sometimes people grow up and their tastes changes. I know that's hard to comprehend since the accepted group think here is to be as contrarian and auto fellating as possible to what /v/ is and should be. Once you stop caring about being a part of this community and forming your own opinions (also known as growing the fuck up), then maybe we could have actual discussion with opposing viewpoints without the shitposting? I seriously doubt that will ever happen, this board is in constant flux with people in their early twenties/late teens...
Daily reminder that Kojima is a scumbag:
1. He went well and truly over budget
2. His ego was inflated
3. Allegedly his work ethic was lacking
4. He licensed a shitload of 80s songs and didn't use them for MGSV
5. He was allegedly unwilling to make MGS multiplat after 4, this didn't coincide with Konami's plans
6. In interviews he is callous with information, leading Konami to take heat
7. He was unwilling to work in Konami HQ during their big change up in 2011, using his "influence" as an executive to force them to rent a new office just for Kojipro, keeping in mind that Kojipro output 1 game ever 4 years at best
8. Wasted a shit load of money on an engine that seen ONE game used for it as Kojima and Kojipro didn't make it nearly diverse enough
9. Wasted a shit load of money on ANOTHER engine, a bit more diverse this time I'll give them that, that is functionally the same as UE4 but won't see anywhere NEAR the use it needs to justify its development costs
10. Openly bias with Playstation hardware (as said in numerous interviews "Playstation is where MGS is at home", and such) when Konami are a multiplatform publisher
11. Generally, he was acting like he couldn't be touched and couldn't suffer consequences, even though he was one of the heads of the company
The real question is, why didn't Konami oust him sooner?
>>322044370
Just finished my first playthrough today. That ending was beautiful.
>>322044370
>>322044705
MGS3 was the best one when I replayed them
It was seriously toned down from what the other games were, and as a result it was more enjoyable. Perhaps I can just chalk this up to not liking kojimas style anymore.
>>322044845
MGS3 has less exposition and the story is more character focused than any of the others.
Not to mention the boss fights against The End and The Sorrow were really subversive, not what you'd expect but they worked so damn well.
>>322036596
2 was a masterpiece?
3 was shit?
>>322045346
Nigger Arsenal Gear was the best part of MGS2.
>>322045091
Yeah exactly. It didn't focus on the really convoluted plot like the previous games. It just told a simple, direct story without all the bullshit and plot dumps.
That's why it's the best one in the series for me, it was MGS light for the story department, but with enough kojimaisms to still make it fun. It wasn't like MGS2 with all that retarded shit going on at the end, huge plot dumps via codec, and ridiculous reasoning and fanfic tier writing.
MGS3 was a nice spy movie, campy as all hell but never was trying to be more than what it was. It was self aware.
>>322045487
>Nigger Arsenal Gear was the best part of MGS2.
it was a fucking bad drug trip
>>322045589
>It wasn't like MGS2 with all that retarded shit going on at the end, huge plot dumps via codec, and ridiculous reasoning and fanfic tier writing.
and the bad fanbase MGS2 brought in
>>322045734
I'm sorry you dislike MGS2, Anon.
It's still my favorite though.
>>322045851
>I'm sorry you dislike MGS2, Anon.
My complaints were:
Big Shell was poorly designed
Lame boss battles
Raiden being a bad main character (I knew I wasn't playing as Snake, I didn't care until I got to the game and holy god Raiden was unbearable. Like how in MGS5 I know I am not Snake but I don't mind since Medic is an okay guy)
Having to listen to NPCs going full retard in Arsenal Gear
The mandatory shit controls for the Solidus boss battle
>>322044370
>>322044705
please stop bullshitting, mgs3 ending suck and ruin the reputation of bigboss, cursing the series to end up the way it is now.
mgs1 and 2 had more beauty and meaning and impact in it ending. then what we got with 3.
>>322038508
This. It's basically the RE4 of MGS.
>>322045851
MGS2 wasn't the worst, but it was lacking relative to the other entries. The gameplay in 2 is arguable the smoothest in all the entries, save for V, but there simply wasn't enough of it. It suffered from Max Payne 3 syndrome where when you were starting to have fun with the game, a cutscene would show up and it would take forever. The story is just a hot mess that I admittedly thought was deep upon my first playthough. Subsequent ones however I realized that it wasn't at all what fans were portraying. In fact, a lot of the revelations about 2's story can be compared to fan lore with Dark Souls. It's all pretty much head cannon.
It had attention to detail, but that's about it.
>>322046178
MGS1/2 both had good endings but some of they were never as well paced as MGS3's story imo.
Everything from the torture scene right to the ending in MGS3 was amazing.
>>322046156
>Big Shell was poorly designed
Aesthetically it's all pretty same-y. The level design is great though and complements the enemy behavior and mechanics quite well. Much better than MGS3's level design does (though MGS3's areas are still fun to navigate they're not nearly as tense to sneak through).
>Lame boss battles
I can agree with this. As I said earlier in the thread the Harrier and Solidus are still pretty good though.
>Raiden being a bad main character
Not really. He's a perfect audience surrogate and works well with the main themes of the game. He's just not Snake. Get over it.
>Having to listen to NPCs going full retard
Okay, I guess.
>Mandatory shit controls for the Solidus boss battle
I've never had an issue with them, though I wish they were just button inputs.Git gud.
>>322046353
MGS2 is a game made for college essays.
Playing the game is not as satisfying as reading about it.
>>322046353
>It's all pretty much head cannon
Not really. It's very obviously mostly deliberate. The released game plan makes it obvious how intentional most of it was.
I can agree that MGS2 needed more gameplay. It could use another shell's worth. But it fares better in that respect than MGS1 does, and I'd rather have the limited amount of MGS2's gameplay than MGS3's unbalanced mess.
>>322044336
Each game has a sniper boss, each game has a psychic boss, each game you fight a mech...
Each game has a double agent, each game has a betrayal, each game has a torture scene, each game has a revelation that maybe the bad guy isnt a bad guy
the list goes on...
>>322046552
>He's just not Snake. Get over it.
Figures, I bitch about Raiden being bad and the MGS2 fanbase uses this strawman despite me never saying that.
>>322047069
Characters don't have to be likable to be good. I found Naked Snake more annoying than I ever found Raiden anyway.
>>322047069
Raiden was intentionally annoying.
That's the point, Kojima knew you wanted to play as Snake and he rused us to serve the story.
>>322047172
>>322047280
But he never said he didn't like him, he's flat out saying he's a bad character.
>>322047361
But the only real criticism he had was that Raiden was "unbearable" yet he likes Venom Snake because Medic is "an okay guy."
>>322047280
>and he rused us to serve the story.
and the story was shit.
You don't deliver plot dumps during the part of the game that is an acid trip.
>>322047361
Whether he's a bad character or not is irrelevent.
Kojima's sole purpose with Raiden was to make us pissed that we weren't playing as Snake.
>>322047546
Sorry, serve the themes.
>>322047546
>and the story was shit.
If you say so.
>>322047551
>>322047523
Niggers, you just said that characters don't have to be likable to be good. using that logic don't automatically assume someone is saying a character is bad because they don't him on a personality level.
Holy shit...
>>322047523
Raiden = Whiny Bitch
Medic = not whiny bitch
what is there to not get?
>>322047638
my point still stands. You don't try to force a theme down the player's throat when nothing makes any damn sense.
>>322036905
>>322036905
>nostalgia goggles
>>322046632
I replay it all the time and I enjoy it.
>>322036596
>calling MGSV=MGS5
the mark of a newfag
>>322047682
I don't think the story was shit, but the plot was.
>thinking mgs3 isn't a masterpiece
>>322037012
sunny was the best thing about mgr
>>322047715
Raiden being a whiny bitch doesn't make him a bad character. It doesn't even make him a bad protagonist.
>>322047709
But refering to Raiden being unlikable was all he did. What are you not getting here?
>>322037227
Ironically everything people like about V was introduced in PW
>>322047715
Are you underage by any chance?
>>322047901
Unlikable constitutes a wide variety of meanings, anon. I'm sorry you don't understand the definition of words.
>>322045346
>>322048045
Maybe he should present an actual criticism, then, because "unbearable" and "whiny bitch" aren't very thoughtful.
Why are you being so catty about someone else's lazy middle school level argument?
>>322048232
Quite frankly I'm fucking bored right now and waiting for my friend to get back so I can play some coop. So in the meantime I'll shitpost.
>>322048232
>Maybe he should present an actual criticism, then, because "unbearable" and "whiny bitch" aren't very thoughtful.
I would but then you would play the "oh you hate him because he's not Snake" card.
So why bother?
>>322048510
I dislike a lot of your opinions. That said, is the 3DS port of MGS3 that good? I heard it was sort of shit.
>>322048762
the frame rate is horrendous
thats it
the improvements they make are great
you can crouch walk and aim in third person
and the menu is on the lower screen
and you can use your dick as a camo
>>322048570
I'll admit that my saying that was unnecessarily hasty, I apologize. But don't hide behind that. If you have an actual criticism I'd be more than willing to respond appropriately.
>>322047798
When kojima announced he was making a new metal gear, he was gunna break taboo, he was making the game he wanted to make for 30 years, he had gain a lot of experience.
my heart was full of joy, he even added the letter V meaning Victory, to prove that japan still had balls.
but guess what it was a utter failure, The game does't deserve the V it deserved a 5 for average
Metal gear solid 5
>>322048570
Well no. You should always present your argument as neatly as possible, as as professional as you can. If the other person resorts to anything less, then you've won and there's no need to carry it on any further.
3>=1>Peace Walker=2=Rising>Ground Zeroes>4>5>>>>>>PO
>>322048943
go to bed
>>322048941
>If you have an actual criticism I'd be more than willing to respond appropriately.
bullshit, you played that card once. What is there to stop you from playing it again?
>>322048943
V stands for Venom
>>322049052
MGS2 > MG2 = GB > MGS3 > MGS1 > PW > 4 > PO
Don't give a shit about Rising or MGSV.
5 is the only really bad one IMO .
>>322049190
I played it when they automatically assumed that I hated Raiden because he wasn't snake. That's not a criticism, that's just a poorly formed assumption on my post.
>>322037012
Jetstream Sam is probably my favorite character of the last five years.
>>322040136
well we can hope they'll announce a new anthology movie staring him in the future.
>>322049190
Okay bud.
>>322039567
JarJar, he's the key to all this
>>322041543
RED SUN
RED SUN OVER PARADISE
>>322049112
the only good thing about peace walker was the ability to play with friends, everything else was shit.
>>322049225
Kojima said in an interview the V in the title of the game stands for ‘victory, but in game it stand for venom, but who give a shit about venom.
to bad that gook
>>322046838
MGS2 didn't have a sniper boss, nor a psychic boss.
And Fat man doesn't match up to anything from MGS1, or Vamp, or Solidus at the very end. They were very different boss fights.
>>322039567
>>322040136
Hell yeah, Obi-Wan.
Anakin was supposed to be the focus, but Obi Wan ended up becoming the Luke in the prequels. We went through his journey. It helped that out of all the actors, Ewan McGregor made the character his own the most over the three movies. Really hope they bullshit their way for Ewan's return as a force ghost.
>>322049881
Fortune is akin to Sniper Wolf. Vamp is akin to psycho mantis and the ninja. Harrier is akin to the Hind D. The Olga fight is akin to Ocelot. Fat man is akin to Vulkan Raven.
in fact did you even play the game? The entire point of it was how similar everything Raiden experienced was to shadow moses.
>MGSV
>Missing story/didn't give a shit about it
>Not a roller coaster story on rails
>Probably the best gameplay from a MGS game
>tfw I can enjoy it for what it was while others cry and moan
>>322049301
MGS1> MGS5> MGS2> MGS3>MGS4>PW> PO
>>322049875
>the only good thing about peace walker was the ability to play with friends, everything else was shit.
so
>structure by missions and side ops
>fulton
>staff management
>weapon development
>base building
>metal gear building
>consecutive CQC
>using MB soldiers for missions
>cassette tapes
>ZEKE battle
>Monster Hunting
>jokes
>walkman
>Dates with Paz and Kaz
>an actual shooting range
are shit?
I could go on but I wont
>>322050294
>Fortune is akin to Sniper Wolf
>Vamp is akin to psycho mantis and the ninja
Now you're just asspulling.
>Harrier is akin to the Hind D
Sure. It's a great boss fight though and I like it more than the Hind D fight in MGS1.
>The Olga fight is akin to Ocelot
Not really. The Ocelot fight in MGS3, maybe.
>Fat man is akin to Vulkan Raven
Nope.
>in fact did you even play the game?
Did you? The similarities between Shadow Moses and the Plant scenario were more relevant to the characters themselves than the actual player's experience. There's certainly overlap, but they're pretty different games on the whole.
>>322050415
Yeah they were.
Good thing you didn't go on, you'd be typing forever...
>>322050578
with people having taste like this, I can see why V turned shit
>>322050415
A lot of those things are neat in theory but in execution just made the core gameplay even more unbalanced than it fundamentally was. PW's amount of variety was great, though.
>>322050294
>Fortune is akin to Sniper Wolf.
What?
>Vamp is akin to Psycho Mantis and Ninja
Ninja, maybe, Mantis, are you fucking high nigga?
>Olga akin to Ocelot
You really are high
>Fatman akin to Vulcan Raven
Nevermind, you're just retarded.
All those boss fights play out completely differently than in MGS1.
>>322050512
Vulkan Raven and Fatman are both a game of cat and mouse. There are crates around the level that each one moves around in, with the player actively avoiding or trying to find him.
Vamp throws objects at you like psycho mantis, and it's clearly shown that he may be supernatural. His agility and jumping around can be compared to the ninja boss in 1.
The Olga fight is a gun fight, with obstacles to use as cover, like in the ocelot fight in 1. They both are are Russian gun fights that share similar mechanics to the ocelot fight in 1.
If you payed the fuck attention to the game you'd see more similarity than what you're describing, and this is for all the games in the series. They all lift from the other entries, just executed in a different manner but they're still the fucking same.
in fact, anyone who doesn't see how each game plays out basically the same should go back and take notes.
>>322051280
Forgot to add sniper wolf vs Fortune
Each one uses a one shot gun, and it's impossible to get too close to them. In the first game you can fight back, but in the second one you can't. In both you're actively running in a horizontal space to defend yourself, and look for areas to go on the offense.
>>322051280
>Fatman
But the entire dynamic of the fight is different because of the planted bombs. On higher difficulties especially finding and freezing the bombs is much more demanding than Fatman himself is.
>Vamp
Being supernatural and throwing shit doesn't mean he's like Psycho Mantis. That said, his introduction (bloody mess) is definitely a callback to Gray Fox's.
>The Olga fight is a gun fight
Yeah, sure is. The actual way the boss fight works is very different though. The fight aginst Ocelot mostly revolves around keeping him in your line of fire by chasing him. Olga's fight revolves around timing and keeping cover.
The similarities are definitely there, but you're overstating them. To imply MGS2 is some sort of rehash of MGS1 is simply inaccurate. The overlap is mostly story-relevant, as I said, not gameplay-centric. They're very structurally different in that sense. Replay the games.
>>322051523
>Each one uses a one shot gun, and it's impossible to get too close to them. In the first game you can fight back, but in the second one you can't. In both you're actively running in a horizontal space to defend yourself, and look for areas to go on the offense.
You're trying way to hard.
>>322051280
>Vulkan Raven and Fatman are both a game of cat and mouse.
Vulcan yes, Fatman no.
Fatman you could easily be very aggressive with your approach to him, as long as you were good about defusing the bombs, you'd be aiming to confront him and shoot him down.
Hell, if you do it right, you don't even have to defuse as much because you'll be knocking him down before he can plant anymore.
>>322052021
I did replay them and they all were the same shit, different manner to me.
Perhaps I am being irrational, but I really REALLY started to dislike them after replaying them. I can definitely say they actively dehyped me for MGSV, which I can at least be thankful for.
>>322052162
They're practically the same fucking fight, except one you cannot win and you're waiting for an elevator, and the map isn't that big.
>>322052169
They share the same mechanics but with a twist. That's what I'm saying, they are basically the same shit with a different spin.
>>322052447
>they were all the same shit
Okay I guess. They do borrow some things from each other, but they're all still pretty different.
>>322051280
>Vamp throws objects at you like psycho mantis
Vamp throws some knives, that's it, Mantis lifted all the shit in the room in patterns to attack, Mantis didn't have the shadow freeze attack.
And you didn't have the whole controller port switch to beat him, you could just gun down Vamp in first person view.
Olga=/= Revolver since she couldn't shoot you when you were behind cover, and Ocelot didn't blind you with the lights and shit.
I mean, just because Olga and Ocelot are Russian doesn't mean they're the same.
It's like saying Volgin is the same boss fight as Ocelot because they're both Russian and males.
It's retarded.
>>322052727
I'm not saying it has to be 1:1. All I'm saying is the schematic is there, and they alter it slightly to adhere to the new characters, but they all have the same foundation. They never try anything totally new.
>>322052447
>They share the same mechanics but with a twist.
Yeah, I must have missed out on the bomb defusal mechanic in the Raven fight, and the First Person Shooting mechanic for the Ninja fight.
>>322052948
Yes, they didn't make a completely different game for MGS2.
I guess they should have gone and made like a medieval fantasy JRPG and just slapped Metal Gear Solid on the cover.
This is pretty much like saying that any sequel is shit because it's a sequel and has connection to the original.
You might as well shit on Terminator 2 because it has the same characters, same actors, and follows similar events and calls back to the first movie.
stuff like "oh there's another ninja" and "you must use a missle to disable the electric field again". those shouldn't have been repeated in the sequel.
