I'm sorry but action-based combat in RPGs is fucking shit.
People say it's not, but it is. There is no real skill required. It is not fun or difficult or anything like that. Most of the time it comes down to basically button mashing.
On the other hand, a solid turn-based combat system like the Grandia or Trails games will be much deeper and more tactical than anything an action-based combat system could ever be. It's really not even close.
When did you realize that action-based combat is shit for lowest common denominator plebs?
git gud
Cant do DMC shit in turn based
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYkWfVTKnyA
what actually keeps an action game from being called button mashing
Cool blog dude
>>322011275
Combat in all RPGs suck. If you want good combat, play an action game or a fighting game.
>>322011395
oh wow flashy images on the screen, amazing.
Turn-based does that better too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Shcu480ua8
I'm sorry but turn-based combat in RPGs is fucking shit.
People say it's not, but it is. There is no real skill required. It is not fun or difficult or anything like that. Most of the time it comes down to basically selecting the same option on a menu over and over again.
On the other hand, a solid real-time combat system like the KH or Tales games will be much deeper and more tactical than anything a turn-based combat system could ever be. It's really not even close.
When did you realize that turn-based combat is shit for lowest common denominator plebs?
>>322011710
OP BTFO
>>322011395
Are you really comparing this shit to DMC?
>>322011429
There's many mechanics that can prevent your game from being a button masher.
You can tie move inputs to score so repeating the same action over and over reduces your overall score. DMC does that.
You can add enemies who will actively block and punish your attacks if they are too obvious and thrown out randomly. Ninja Gaiden and Godhand do that.
You can make attacks slow with no way of cancelling out of them so you have to commit to your actions like in Castlevania(classic) or Monster Hunter.
And it generally helps to add many enemies who make you block or dodge consistently.
Now notice how games like Dynasty Warriors barely got any mechanics like that.
KH2 final Mix, optional Data Bosses
Sage
>>322011863
Sure.
>>322011684
Looks pretty weak.
>>322011710
>huurrrr I can repeat exactly what OP said except replacing a few words
excellent point kiddo. How was school today?
>>322012020
You could say the exact same thing if his post was the OP and OP's post was the reply. The point is that this argument is fucking retarded and it's entirely down to preference with turn-based or real-time combat.
>>322012020
it just shows how shit op's argument is because there's zero substance or actual points being made.
if he actually gave some examples of why turnbased > real time, that post wouldn't have been made.
>hurrrr
>muh "action based combat is good" meme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XXczTCgoLc
LOL
Kingdom Hearts 2 FM
>>322011710
Would be more understandable if kh wasn't easy trash, and the worst offender of button mashing
>here let's slap on the turn based HUD to a arpg! Durr
>>322011275
>>322012020
Except he actually made a better point. Saying that turn based games take more skill and is more exciting is asinine. If anything turn based games are more comfy and relaxing since you can literally take an hour to make your moves
>action-based combat
*teleports behind you*
*unsheathes katana*
*cuts you into a thousand pieces*
"heh... nothin personnel... kid"
>>322012603
>personnel
>>322012595
Button mashing isn't skill, Anon. A solid turn-based battle system requires much more skill than even the best action-based system.
Just because it's fast doesn't mean it requires skill
>>322012593
yeah i just bullshitted since i dont really play weeb games
>>322012603
>>322012690
Sup, kids?
The funny thing is that I hear people talk about how easy turn-based combat is, but then I see people who are new to it get absolutely wrecked and fail to do basic things like use their resources strategically so they can last for the long-term, and end up doing stupid shit like going into boss battles with no magic or not even using all the combat abilities available to them properly.
You don't make those mistakes with action combat because it's basically "hurr button mashing time"
>>322012751
Then git fucking gud anon, everyone here understands the mechanics to fighting games and hasnt had to button mash since they were five unless theyre trash.
Not to mention that many real time rpgs have the same mechanics as turn based ones but theres additional challenge added because you have to manage time.
You cannot honestly tell me that a turn based dark souls would be harder than a real time one
Fun fact, action-based combat has no real choices or options for you in battle. IN fact, the only time action-based combat gives you options is when characters aren't being controlled by you. see: Tales games, which give the player character a handful of abilities at best and the non-player characters long lists of them. LOL
>>322012690
is this your first day here
>>322012485
>use worst tales of as a example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc1BHJh56RY
It's not that there is more or less skill required its that it doesn't properly allow for scenarios or situations that really show off the character you've created.
>>322012751
The only difficulty that comes from turn based rpgs is inflated boss stats. In good action games any enemy is a threat (like dark souls), whereas in most rpgs regular enemies are mostly filler between bosses since they never really pose a challenge unless you just got to a new area. Then once you fight a boss once theres really no difficulty since it will have revealed all its attacks and patterns. The only challenge comes from having to reload saves, having enough potions, and being leveled enough (which any casual can do). Realtime games actually force you to master a games mechanics and git gud
>>322014160
>b-b-but muh button mashing takes more skill than a combat system that requires actual thought put into it
>b-b-but muh button mashing is better than a combat system that requires you to plan out your tactics prior to individual battles and even your long-term strategy for entire dungeons/game sections
'no'.
there are action rpgs that aren't brainless musou's, i don't know ANY turn based rpg that required as much skill as dark souls
or you could just hang yourself because you're probably that vietnamese cuntrag with a face like a potato, who oddly enough, doesn't seem to give a shit that ffxiv wasn't turn based
>>322013627
>It's not that there is more or less skill required its that it doesn't properly allow for scenarios or situations that really show off the character you've created.
This.
Most action RPG combat boils down to spamming the same fucking move over and over again.
>>322014426
Please enlighten me as to how you successfully button mash in dark souls or ninja gaiden
Please tell me how you dont plan for a boss in dark souls or ninja gaiden without getting your shit rekt
You can spout the same meme all day long but everyone in this thread already knows your full of shit
>>322014757
i remember spamming my strongest moves in most final fantasy games
i think the last time i encountered challenge in a jrpg was breath of fire 2 when i was 10
>>322014426
Why do you even bother replying if it's clear you aren't actually trying to discuss anything.
Both combat systems have their own strengths and weaknesses, there's no need to act like a retard.
>>322014892
>Using Final Fantasy as an example of turn-based combat
FF has always had shitty combat. It's a terrible example to use.
>>322014892
>>322014892
I thought the thread was about real RPGs and not jrpgs.
>>322011275
High level Tales gameplay is ten times more fun than any shitty turn based "strategic" shit.
Beating enemies with style>>>>>beating hard enemies with turn based combat
Turn based games are shit
Fuck is wrong with you people?
Am I playing a VIDEO GAME or a fucking board game?
Or should I say bored game
Fucking gaylords
>>322014963
And yet its still the basis for most turn based games even today. What does that say anon?
>>322011395
>bland 3D remakeof a decent 2D tails of we never got in the west
mad
>>322015084
>cod kiddies everyone
This is the main user base of your average action game is.
>>322015023
whatever, leave the grandmas alone to do some macrame between actions in a video game
in turn based all you have to do is literally keep track of shit, fuck you don't even need to do that because all of the information is usually available to you off the bat. you have 3 turns until a boss does this and wipes your party, you can do this or this based on the situation. i'm really not seeing the depth of this and i think you're all a bunch of sissy cunts disguising the fact that you can't handle having to deal with management in real time
>>322011684
let me guess, no dual audio?
>>322015420
English only, weebs fuck off
>>322015418
the thing is, it's possible to make an action game that's brutally difficult and blows turn-based out of the water. BUT THEY DON'T. And OP is right to hate on it because it's expected now that the games will have been watered down into button mashers so the kiddies don't get too worked up.
>>322015383
>soulless virgins everyone
This is the main user base of your average weeaboo jrpg everyone
OK, people complain about turn based battles a lot because you can take forever make your turns and whatnot, but what do people think about the ATB system in Final Fantasy?
>>322015287
Hearts R is the best 3D tales since Vesperia combat wise.
It takes Vesperia and Xillia, mashes them up, and makes a ton of improvements.
>>322015636
>weeb game
>weeb console
>weeb website
you fuck off
>>322015383
Fuck does cod have to do with turn based combat being skill less and boring?
It's always about over powering yourself with stats and comfortable sitting on your fat ass while you can take literally FOREVER to make your move
It's garbage
>>322015796
>implying potato gook is a virgin
please. she's living with some old guy who bought her a house in hungary or something.
>>322011684
>whine about flashy images on the screen
>posts flashy images on the screen
If your turn based game doesn't have an actual battlespace to move characters around, no terrain bonuses and penalties, no fog of war, you can't say shit about any other game.
>>322011275
You're a fuckng retard.
There's just as many turnbased RPGs that take literally no skill, tactics or thinking as there are button mashing action combat RPGs.
The good stuff about turnbased is that you can take your time, both in taking your actions and then looking at your actions.
This doesn't necessarily mean that it's easier, but it also dosn't mean that they're inherently harder and thus better. Button mashers mostly are a huge fucking clusterfuck so you can't really enjoy the flashy combat at all, like lghtming returns for example.
>>322014426
>a combat system that requires you to plan out your tactics prior to individual battles and even your long-term strategy for entire dungeons/game sections
I'll take shit that never happens for $400.
>>322015796
I don't play weeb games. Try again.
Best Action JRPG coming through.
I like both turn based and action RPG.
I don't like turn based RPGs because they look stupid andunrealistic
I still play them because some are fun, tough.
Is Xenoblade Chronicles turnbased or actionbased? It gives you the positional freedom of actionased RPGs but the combat itself feels like a turnbased RPG with clicking buttons and shit.
>>322016493
Action
Its so totally action, do you just not know the difference?
>>322011275
I actually agree with OP.
From what I'm gathering from the thread, both are shit. So doesn't making turn based combat action based defeat the point of the genre?
>>322016657
I thought action RPGs was just spamming slashing with your sword. the actual combat of xenoblade feels like a menu-based RPG
>>322016392
Same here, they both have their strengths and faults though.
I just wish there was a good Co-op RPG with turn based combat. I wanna dungeon crawl with my bros. with best combat.
>>322016821
Xenoblade tried to be an action RPG and a menu RPG at the same time and ended up just becoming a singleplayer MMO with timing-based combat.
>>322014426
There has only been 3 turn based games ever that required deep thought.
nice b8 btw, can't beleive you got me to respond.
>>322011275
>turn based combat is deeper and tactical
>literally no amount of strategy or skill can help you win fights if you haven't ground enough.
>for most enemies in the game you will select the exact same options every single time you fight them with little to no variation.
>success in a bossfight is almost always determined by if your healer has enough mana to keep up the fight and your defenses are good enough you don't get 1 shot.
>you're healer never has to make any choices because aside from the first turn he never has any time where he has more than one option that won't result in a wipe.
I'm not saying all turn based RPG combat is terrible, but the vast majority of it is horribly balanced trash which requires virtually no skills aside from some simple math to determine how efficient each attack is and the ability to prioritize the correct target out of maybe 2 or 3. Sometimes it can be amazing, but most often it's garbage balanced so that even the worst player can win by grinding the game to hell.
>>322011275
not necessarily
>>322017632
Anyone who hates turn based combat clearly got their shit wrecked due to poor planning and/or tactics and simply went to hide behind button mashing action games instead of getting good.
Does XCOM count as a turn-based RPG?
>there will never be an action RPG with the combat depth of DMC4
why even live
>>322011275
Dude, Turn Based is shit. I don't enjoy pressing X all day, using the same tired old moves to EVENTUALLY kill the enemy. Redoing strategies until you get to a boss that requires a slight shift in strategy. The "excitement" of such a shitty system being forced by the anticipation of killing a boss since you can't see their fucking health bar for no discernibly sensible reason. "Man, I can't wait to use fire fire fire heal fire fire fire fire heal after I wait out an annoyingly long time period of watching a monster faceroll on me."
At least with action based, you can see the amount of damage you're actually doing, and when done right, provides an excellent range of options to fight with, not that turn based cannot provide that, but they are TOO FUCKING EASY, TOO FUCKING SIMPLE.
Turn based is only for nostalgia indie games - it's a dead genre, fucking accept it, grandpa.
>>322018048
Nah, Xcom and FE are typically counted as turn based strategy games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCD6j9IgkJk
What game in OP?
>>322018356
Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel
On vita and ps3
>>322018501
sounds like shit
>>322016279
>turn based rpgs
>doesnt play weeb games
Top kek
>>322018356
COLDSTEEL
>>322018501
>On vita and ps3
Oh well. Thanks anyway.
>>322011275
I don't like waiting my turn
>>322017903
I dont think anyone in here HATES turn based combat (im a fan of turn based rpgs myself) they just dont understand how you can fail to comprehend that realtime combat adds more depth.
Btw no one gets rekt by turn based rpgs unless its because of bs RNG ala SMT: Nocturne so pls stop this meme
>>322018345
Eternal Sonata still looks better than any modern jrpg game.
>>322017684
It's also because all Turn-Based combat nowadays is all about beating the HP stat, and almost never about anything else. The same can most definitely be said about Action games, as well. What can we add to combat that could add a second dimension to the goal of combat?
>>322018198
I'm actually another anon who took the bait and is arguing with OP but occasionally a turn based game will have good options and require strategy. They're typically only games which allow multiclassing, have equipment systems where the equipment has more effects than just "+5 fire resist and hp regen", and methods of character progression aside from pure grinding, but some games like that exist.
>>322012593
>Not playing on Critical
>>322019285
Can you point some modern ones out for me?
That are still being made I can only think of EO and Atelier.
>>322019063
>multiple methods of doing large amounts of damage.
One reason why DQ is one of the few series to occasionally do turn based RPGs right is because burst is actually a viable option in those games as opposed to just DPS.
>aggro management
Another thing from DQ and one of the reasons burst works is because you can actually juggle aggro in those games to protect your damage dealer while they're charging up their big hit. By giving multiple characters the option to draw aggro you actually change up the flow of the fight a little and force actual choices like who is gonna tank the next hit. It also just gives the player more control.
>real character customization
meaningful multiclassing, equipment/crafting systems that give more than stat bonuses, having to choose between different combat styles within a class. If you couple this with balance that keeps one party member from being able to carry a role all by themselves (healer can't keep everyone alive without help, tank needs someone else to take a blow every now and then, etc.) you start having to actually choose which character does what.
>tactics based sidequests/content
Stuff like "kill 5 goblins with a butterknife to unlock the next level of backstab", "hit guard members with X attack to reveal if they're traitors or not. If they are traitors you need to use the item stealing attack to steal their documents, if they aren't you need to hit all of them with illusion magic in the same turn to make them forget what happened", or maybe " go through the volcano dungeon finishing all enemies off with ice attacks to unlock the magic fire sword." Content where to progress you'd actually have to come up with a strategy instead of just grinding until you got to a high enough level.
>>322020051
DQIX for the DS has the best turn based gameplay I've ever seen, although opinions on the game vary among DQ fans because it also has the weakest story since so much focus was put on gameplay (to the point where aside from the MC all party members are just random characters you make up with no story significance so they could let your party members be any class you wanted). It basically does everything I described in this post >>322020594 right.
Underrail (RAIL not TALE, people tend to get them confused) is also a good wrpg that does most of those things, although I'm not far enough in it to say if it holds up or not.
There is one other game that I just cannot remember for the life of me. I'll post it if I can remember it.
>>322018658
This can't be real.
>>322020594
All of it devolves to one thing: Beating the HP stat. And even with restricting to make other factors matter, they tend to go the "find the formula, and stick to it like a dog in heat" trend.
The thing I want to say here is that RPG Combat doesn't have as much freedom in what outcomes to seek than simple killing, murder and assassination. It's like asking for a different flavor of Ice Cream, when in the end, its just ice cream. But there are other types of dessert out there, so why not add them to RPG Combat scenarios?
Good god, I didn't want to use this example but it is one of the most recent. Um, something likeUndertale, if you get what I mean. And I don't mean to heterogenize the goals in a strict binary fashion like the game did... but, well, Choice™ being one factor. The other is also most simple. Like Metal Gear Solid 3 Onward. Instead of the HP stat, there's the Stamina stat. Or like in Star Ocean 3, the MP stat. Take a different approach in combat, this enemy can be killed, but it would be easier to subdue them in another manner. Something like that.
Most games don't do much about doing this. Which is why most games are button smashers and Attack Command Spammers for 60% of each game.
>>322023024
Yeah, I get what you're saying. Stuff like being able to skip muffets fight if you showed her that you bought something from the spider bake sale in the ruins. Early SMT games would sometimes let you talk your way out of fights. That's one of the reasons why I prefer WRPGs to JRPGs though, because a lot of WRPGs will try to give you options to avoid combat alltogether. In some WRPGs you can avoid almost all combat by convincing, lying, sneaking, or bribing your way through most of the game.
>tfw know people who won't play RPGs because "taking turns is stupid and unrealistic"
These people are the worst.
>>322011275
>he doesnt like to go full CURAYYZEE modo
Real time action based combat are the best because they require more of the player than turn based.
In turn based all you need are levels enough to defeat a boss.
In a good real time action combat you need levels, good reflex, timing, more concentration, situational awareness, etc.
Also the mechanics are usually better and more fun, like parry and dodging.
Not saying turn based combat is always shit, but I dont fall sleep while playing a game with real time action combat.
>>322011275
depends on the game but yes
action rpgs are almost universaly terrible
>>322026438
>In turn based all you need are levels enough to defeat a boss.
lol spoken like a true retard who has never finished a turn-based game
>In a good real time action combat you need levels, good reflex, timing, more concentration, situational awareness, etc.
No, actually, all you need to do is button mash.
>>322018345
>all that talking to herself during tutorial
They could do that better, really.
>>322011275
I can play both and don't really prefer one over the other, but if anything turn-based menu combat is inferior. You just hit attack over and over again. May as well let me do that in real time.
My favorite is srpg-style combat though.
>>322027242
>>In turn based all you need are levels enough to defeat a boss.
>lol spoken like a true retard who has never finished a turn-based game
To be fair I can't remember the last time I played a turn based RPG where bosses couldn't be beaten by just level grinding.
>>322011275
>Turn-based JRPG lover crying
You deserved this. Remind the last time turn-based JRPGs were fun and alright
1990?
>>322011275
Strategy/turn-based games suck.
>hardest difficulty or you're a fucking plebian
>Take forever to plot out your next move with no time restriction
>oops you were 1 tile too far, die in one-shot
>multiplayer turn-based
>wait forever for enemy to make move
>oops you were 1 tile too far, die in one-shot
Or you could go the etrian route
>not mashing defend just to stay alive
>one-shot by enemies actually randomly using their one good ability
Why don't you want to actively respond to incoming threats? Are you braindead or just slow?
If you honestly think all JRPGs should be turn based, you are contributing to the death of the genre. No variation in games will only harm the entire market.
>>322016167
>All the components that made Fire Emblem good are gone and replaced with watered done gameplay and Waifufaggotry
It hurts senpai
>>322018345
I got the PS3 version of this on my backlog but I heard they really upped the encounter rate
>>322023024
>>322023608
These are good examples but too bad they weren't used to their full potential. I actually am neutral on the game itself but like the combat mechanics
>>322028168
Don't reply to that anon. They have been baiting this whole thread and people keep replying. Haven't you guys been here long enough to know when you're being rused?
Turn based games are easy, everyone understands this. If you think they are hard you have a mental condition or are under age 12.
Maybe play a game that isn't shit before making a judgement call?
>>322011275
But OP RPGs are about role playing.
Fuck "JRPGs". JRPGs have a needlessly complex definition so that their fans can use it to ostracize anything that tries something new.
Japanese role playing game. Western role playing game. It's the simplest definition.
>>322011275
lol
>>322011275
The problem with turn based combat in jrpgs is that most fights can be resolved by spamming attack. The genre is too reliant on difficulty balance to be any fun while action combat is a bit more forgiving. Bad and easy action combat can at least give you the illusion that you're doing something.
>>322011275
If it goes all out like Monster Hunter or Dark Souls it's fine but I generally agree.
>>322011275
>I'm sorry but action-based combat in RPGs is fucking shit.
I'm sorry but your taste is fucking shit. Action-based combat can be plenty fun, but like anything it can be done decently or done terribly. Or perhaps even more then that, action-based combat leaves a lot more room to do terribly then tactical, and if it's bad then it can make things unbearable rather then merely be boring. But terrible gameplay is possible in anything at all if the devs are bad.
>>322011275
>Tales of Phantasia and Summon Night Swordcraft Story are shit
I wish I could hate you to death.
>>322026438
>In turn based all you need are levels enough to defeat a boss.
Unless all your experience with turn based titles is FF and Neptunia, thats terribly incorrect
>>322011275
I agree
Refined Turn based > Refined Action-based mashing
>>322031912
That's only a problem with bad games
star ocean 3 and 4 say fuck you.
when you combine those flashy 100 kick combos it's ill as fuck
I think that a good well balanced turn based game trumps a real time one but I still appreciate stuff like tales as a type of comfort jrpg.
>>322034190
I think both can be great and I would not want there to be one or the other, I like having more variety. I guess I'd choose turn-based 2/3 times, but that other 1/3 I definitely have had tons of fun with stuff like Tales.
I do think though that it takes more skill to make a good, well balanced and deep action-based combat system then turn-based, and furthermore that it matters to a higher degree. If a turn-based system is so-so, the game can still be totally playable if everything else is good and the encounter rate isn't too bad. Even if it's badly balanced it can sometimes still have some fun to it of the "make your own" variety. Whereas if an action-based system totally sucks then no matter how good the rest is it can be hard to get through it.
I still think there's a lot of room for innovation in action-based though for JRPGs. A sort of hybrid with a good fighter, geared towards single player, could be a lot of fun if done well.
