Are used games worse than piracy?
Piracy
>consumer downloads game for free
>nobody profits monetarily except maybe ads on torrent sites, although this can be prevented
>game developer is not necessarily denied a sale in all cases since some people wouldn't buy the game regardless of price
>no physical copy is lost
Used games
>original consumer recoups some losses by selling game
>game retailer profits
>new consumer buys game for less than market price, and almost certainly denies a sale since they would have probably bought it.
>Physical copy is transferred, meaning company moves less product overall which can have an effect on logistics/sales to retailers
Depends on your priorities.
I think most used game sellers are absolute scum tier, the organized ones anyway. The mom and pop shops are alright.
I wouldn't mind companies cutting out used games as long as they still offered physical media directly from an online store.
Gamestop is just hardcore cancer is basically what I'm saying. Wouldn't mind if they went tits up.
The prospect of being able to return a game for some in-store credit after you've finished it may make some people more likely to buy games that they wouldn't otherwise.
>>321898534
>some in-store credit
Steam might be forced to do this by European law soon.
>I wasn't going to buy the game anyways so it's not like they're losing a sale.
Then don't play the game at all faggot
>>321898742
whats the difference if he plays it or not?
I don't pirate, but i do agree that piracy is not NECESSARILY a lost sale.
I might pirate fallout 4 and in that case i might play it. But i'm never going to pay for it.
Either way nothing happens whether i pirate it or not
It's worse yeah. You're paying without even supporting the dev. It's garbage.
>>321898742
I'm not trying to morally justify piracy, I'm simply saying it's slightly better for the developer than used games sales. Neither give the developer any money, however used games are profited from by 3rd parties. Although >>321898534 makes a point, some people might buy the game because they can sell it later, but I'm not sure how you could quantify that.
>>321898742
I agree copyright infringers trying to justify it are retarded.
I pirate games all the time. I do it to save money. I often buy games after I've pirated them (typically on discount because it's rare for me to pay $60+ for any video game).
I do it because it's easy, the technology is available and it's cheaper for me. I don't have a right to do it, but I do have the ability and I'm unimpeded.
>>321898901
If you're not going to pay for it you don't deserve to play it unless it's a demo. Not that anyone makes demos anymore.
>>321899249
>If you're not going to pay for it you don't deserve to play it
Irrelevant. I have the ability to play it so whether I deserve it doesn't matter.
So when someone asks you to do work and refuses to pay you for it it's ok?
when you pirate something you still have the option to buy it later, if you felt like supporting the developers
when you buy something used, you're not going to track down a new copy
>not asking to check the disc before you buy it
I've gotten dirt cheap copies of practically new games.
>>321899418
>So when someone asks you to do work and refuses to pay you for it it's ok?
this is why "down payments" and contracts exist
>>321897217
eeeew
>>321897217
Fuck off, piratefags. Your constant need to "justify" yourselves just shows that you're fully aware of how fucking shitty you are. Now go away, the adults with jobs are talking.
HEY QT
>>321897217
People bitching about used games and piracy are the most blind fuckers in existence, if not for those two things many many games would have been swallowed by the maw of history, they are a godsend for preservation
"used games and piracy are bad for the industry" is code for "I am a fucking idiot and don't have the perspective to recognize that something could be a societal good more than 5 years out"
>>321899763
i know at least 5 people with 6 figure salaries that still pirate everything like they always have
>>321899697
So then it's ok for me to break that contract with you? Cool, thanks anon!
>>321897217
Piracy
>publisher is never paid
Used
>publisher is paid once for one product
>>321900075
see you in court
>>321900357
haha wow
>>321898639
guess what steam wallet is anon
>>321898334
are there mom and pops shops left? I havent seen one in sweden for 15+ years
No what is the worst for humanity is
From childhood you are taught to be obedient
Then you go into life and you are expected to to do repetitive tasks like a robot and be obedient for green pieces of paper
Those green pieces of paper dictate what you can do in your life and what people think of you
If you try to opt out of it you end up with alcohol heroin and drugs and dying
hey atleast after a day of being obedient you get to come home to beggars on a screen asking you for the slavery points you just achieved for the day
That is the crime against humanity
The suppression of humans
And do not call me a consumer I am not a slave
>>321900584
Are you implying you can re-sell games you've played on Steam? You can't yet. I know what the wallet is, I don't know what your point is though.
>>321897217
Piracy
>one copy can be given to thousands of people
Used game
>one copy and only be used by one person at a time
>>321900606
I'm in Canada. There is a total of 1 in my medium sized city, so they must be elsewhere.
Hard for them to survive with cancerous monopolies like Gamestop though.
I buy pre gen 3 stuff there. They have a bunch of Atari 2600 games.
This is one of the reasons why consoles sell well.
Trade in games.
>>321897217
Worst thing are those used copies they sell in gamestop etc.
Its like 5 dollars off and the buyer would probably have bought a new copy if there was no used copy available.
People that always wait for a massive discount/buy used with massive discount/pirate are all lower priority because these people wouldnt buy the game to price you wanted anyway if at all.
>>321900807
If i knew where one was i would buy stuff there instead of normal places. i can afford the prices.
>>321898534
This just is not possible with Steam though, unfortunately.
>>321897217
This is an interesting statement about piracy:
https://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-founder-builds-the-ultimate-piracy-machine-151219/
>>321900618
While I agree with you the other option of not being a slave is being feral, dirty and diseased.
>>321899763
This
In case you haven't watched the latest TerminalCancer video, DLC helps recoup some of those losses.
Now, get back to slurping your papas cummies
Any argument against piracy is based on two things and neither of them really have anything to back them up beyond moral annoyance.
1) Lost sales. Lost sales by their very definition don't exist and thus can't really be counted. You can't claim that every download represents one lost sale, because that's ridiculous, and any attempt to come up with a ratio for the amount of lost sales any specific number of downloads represents is just pulling numbers out of your ass.
2) The idea that someone shouldn't play/watch something they haven't paid for simply because they don't deserve it. Which is kind of irrelevant in most ways because regardless of whether you think someone should do it, they CAN do it, and you can't really stop them.
Best way to combat piracy is to give customers a better experience than piracy gives them. That's why gog.com thrives. They don't pre-emptively treat their customers like thieving pieces of shit, they have a decent catalogue, and give decent service.
>>321901263
The system of worshipping items has failed us.
We can still have a civilized society and we focus on individuals wills and helping each other attain goals instead of the society we have right now. We need to evolve or we perish.
I think the GameStop/EB Games business model of used game sales is scummy, and definitely worse than piracy.
GameStop
>incentivizes trade-ins
>makes more money off a used game than brand new due to fewer middlemen
>devs make no money
>used copies of recent releases are only $5 cheaper
>very poor quality control; they'll take just about anything. No cases, no instructions, disc only (sometimes scratched ones, at that)
>poorly organized inventory (I once found a used copy of Mega Man Star Force 2 that was mislabeled as Mega Man ZX); this is bad because if you were able to forgive all the above points, it would be a major waste of your time to call up a store and ask for a game, and for them to tell you they have a used copy in stock, then you drive/walk/bus/bike over to the store and find out that they mislabeled a game
I'm not opposed to all used game sales though.
>game is discontinued
>game is hard to find
>game is just plain old
These are good examples of tolerable used game sales.
>>321897217
>worse
>not better
Worse assumes that either is bad to begin with. Both represent a good idea. Both can be abused, but so can any good idea.
Both are used to combat horrible business practices.
Piracy allows you to work outside of the law when the law may not protect what it was designed to protect. On the other hand, it more easily leads to corruption, such as people who will never attempt to buy games thanks to being able to pirate them.
Used games allows you to fully work inside the law, and helps preserve the idea of personal ownership and the right to control how you benefit from the fruits of your own labor. On the other hand, used games leads to complacency with the status quo, and has a potentially negative impact on developers.
Hard to tell which one is better. They both have a long list of merits and demerits. Personal bias will most likely determine which one you find to be better.
THE ILLUMINATIS GOAL IS TO UNITE THE WORLD THE REASON WHY THERE IS DIVISION IS SO PEOPLE FIGHT AND THEN UNITE AFTER.
General Overview of the Entire Order.
The further you, my Br., advance in our ill. Ord., the more you will be convinced that our principles are of such a kind that they do not need to fear the light, if human beings were as they should be. Sadly, however, very much is still lacking. Truths that are not presented under concealment and in sacred ceremonies are not truths to most people. The hidden tempts them, and they are captivated by the pleasure of knowing something that is not known to everyone so that they direct their attention to matters they would have otherwise ignored, no matter how important they are, and in this manner, the unadulterated truth must imprint itself in their souls in indelible characters. There are also sentences that cannot be presented in a direct manner, that require thorough contemplation, repeated effort, and not everyone is inclined to this; yet everyone likes to think of himself as the wisest man. Thus, if I wish to initiate into a system that relies heavily on middle movements he would not likely have found in this chain through his own reasoning, I must conceal the complete development with a shroud until he is sufficiently prepared to see the whole light and the allure of attaining this must move him to pay attention to everything, even the smallest detail. If I were to present the final goal at once, it would appear to him unimportant, even false, and one would lose the most useful people.
>>321901997
I dont think anyone is going to disagree that gamestop/EB is fucking terrible, but that being said if you want a dedicated vidya retailer they pretty much have to do the used games thing in order to survive.
I own a used vidya store and i make $6 off of a new game sale, closer to $4 if they used a card to pay. On a new console i make from 15-8 dollars and pretty much nothing if they use a card. These are not sustainable margins. The money made off used products is necessary for a vidya store to survive.
>>321900606
There's a couple but they have to specialize in very old systems and games, Gamestop has a monopoly on new used games.
>>321901336
You're an idiot.
>1) Lost sales. Lost sales by their very definition don't exist and thus can't really be counted. You can't claim that every download represents one lost sale, because that's ridiculous, and any attempt to come up with a ratio for the amount of lost sales any specific number of downloads represents is just pulling numbers out of your ass.
I fucking love this one because nobody can still answer me this with a straight face. If you weren't going to buy the game anyways, why pirate and play it anyways? You don't see me pirating shit games and shit stuff and tormenting shit shows I wasn't going to watch anyways. I just turn the other way around and forget they even exist. And I can STILL pirate them.
>The idea that someone shouldn't play/watch something they haven't paid for simply because they don't deserve it.
This is the most idiotic of them all. With that logic, why even bother making a game to begin with? It'll all get pirated anyways, after all, and people weren't going to pay for it anyway, since they "deserve" it. The thing that cracks me up the most about hardcore piratefags are the ones that apply the "why pay for it when I can get it for free" mentality to everything. You fags do realize games are still products, right? It can't just magically exist. Studios need workers, and those workers need to make a living.
By all means, do what you want. I agree that companies make it harder for consumers to really try out their games and get shitty service, but you know what? Just stop bothering with them to begin with. I haven't bought anything from Ubisoft in 6 years now.
>>321900690
I think he's saying selling games back to steam will give you Steam Wallet funds as opposed to real money
>>321902689
>I fucking love this one because nobody can still answer me this with a straight face. If you weren't going to buy the game anyways, why pirate and play it anyways?
Really? It's a simple tier of effort and interest system.
Use a scale of 1 - 10. Anything above a 7 (for example), I'm interested enough in to spend money on. Anything below a 7 I don't think I'd want to spend money on.
But that doesn't mean there isn't that grey area where I'd still be interested in playing/watching it anyway. So that area between 4-7 I'd download anyway
It's really not that hard. I mean, do you walk past free samples and scream "IF I WANTED IT I'D PAY FOR IT YOU CUNT"?
>>321902628
Do you at least carry used games that are more than 2 generations old?
Apparently, there are idiots who will willingly pay $20 for a used Mario Kart 64 cartridge.
>>321897217
Who is that cum bum?
>>321902689
>I fucking love this one because nobody can still answer me this with a straight face. If you weren't going to buy the game anyways, why pirate and play it anyways?
Not him. When I get bored I sometimes pirate a game and play it for less than an hour, get bored again, deleted and never played it again. I'm sure as ahell I wont buy it if pirating isn't a possibility. I much rather prefer to read a book.
>>321903158
The thing is, free samples isn't the full wheel of cheese.
>>321903374
That's not the point. The point is, he's saying if he wanted something at all, he'd pay for it. Apparently it's not have anything OR pay full price for the thing, which is retarded.
>>321903257
QT
>>321897217
Forget one of the most important step:
Used Game:
Original consumer re-invest the money he got back into buying another game (new or used, it doesn't matter).
The money that got transferred from the new consumer to the original consumer will remain most likely stuck within the video game economy, thus making it grow regardless.
Sure you can sell all your games to buy something completely different like shoes or a new phone, but realistically how many times does that happen? You sell an old car to buy a new one, you sell old PC parts after an upgrade, you sell games to acquire new ones/new consoles.
>>321899763
I'm making £39K a year (don't simply convert that to USD unless you are completely retarded), that's basically 89th percentile in term of salary here in the UK. (So "richer" than 89% of the population.) Yet I still pirate and don't give a fuck.
Even if I can live decently with £39K a year I still can't afford everything I want. So I'd rather save on shit I can get for free (i.e. not paying for 0's and 1's) and instead travel the world, eat proper food and own decent hardware.
So stay mad believing people pirating are only poor/jobless people.
>>321903698
>£
Oh, I'm so, so sorry, anon.
>>321902795
In other words, in-store credit.
>>321902689
>I fucking love this one because nobody can still answer me this with a straight face. If you weren't going to buy the game anyways, why pirate and play it anyways? You don't see me pirating shit games and shit stuff and tormenting shit shows I wasn't going to watch anyways. I just turn the other way around and forget they even exist. And I can STILL pirate them.
I'll tell you for one, I'm a poorfag and only spend money on games that i absolutely want, the alternative to pirating and playing whatever game, is to not buy it and not play it.
>>321903540
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MQUleX1PeA
Oh my god.
Man I miss going to pawnshops so bad. Now that the wiiu and ps4 is out, I used to buy up whole libaries for €5,- a game.
On the other hand now I live in Denmark and I can order every game to my local libary and rent it for weeks for free.
>>321902689
>
I fucking love this one because nobody can still answer me this with a straight face. If you weren't going to buy the game anyways, why pirate and play it anyways?
I come from a time, probably before you were born. Game developers released Demos or even Shareware of their games, This has been phased out for some stupid reason and thus every purchase is technically a blind leap of faith assuming you may like the game...Unless you pirate it.
itll kill videogames just like radio killed music, vcrs killed tv, cds killed music again, dvds killed movies and tv shows, file sharing killed it again along with gaminng, torrenting killed it twice, libraries killed books, file sharing killed books again, torrenting killed books again, internet killed social interaction, like books, letters, libraries, tv, record players, cd players, dvd players
sorry i lost track of where i was
>>321904401
Welcome to the world of post-ironic pop music.
>>321902689
>I fucking love this one because nobody can still answer me this with a straight face.
i can. convenience. i didnt torrent just the games i wanted for snes, i just torrented the entire collection because it was all in one spot. instead of finding 30 different torrents for 30 different games, i just found 1 torrent, and downloaded all 4000 odd games.
imagine, you could torrent every movie that existed. it takes you 2 hours, and it takes 1% of your harddrive. your not gonna watch more then 1% of them, but...why not? i downloaded gutenburgs entire collection of 10,000 free ebooks, because it took....200 megs and took about 3 minutes to download. why not? i can always delete it later.
>>321903540
>>321904401
>Britain
>Moe
Please never attempt to mix these again or I will join the Muslims in Yurop.
>Are used games worse than piracy?
I wouldn't say worse, but equally the same for sure, because in either case, the developer doesn't see a dime for his work.
>>321904401
Holy shit, this song is shitpost gold, thanks.
>>321904838
devs didnt stop making demos, you just stopped looking for them. why dont you stop over to steam and take a look at the 912 they have? in the past 29 days, 20 demos have been released. your average monthly demo disc came with 1-15 demos, if you were lucky. your getting more free demos per month on average then you did back in 99.
you just dont give a shit anymore about demos. they are there...your not looking for them. youve got better things to do. like play, entire free2play gimped games instead of free2play demos
>>321905974
>not loving based Hannah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKztreA6e7Y
>>321906772
Hahahaha, ahahahaha. Jesus thanks.
The one near me is probably the best stop for fighting games in MA. Shits only like a 7 minute drive too. Sick arcade too.
>>321903216
It's currently up to $45-$50. I'd gladly pay $20 for a copy of Mario Kart 64. Supply and demand anon, it's kind of high right now because of Christmas but it'll probably come back down to $35, that's what it was at before November.
An item is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. I sell on eBay for a living and that's one rule I have to remember at times, along with ''Just because you yourself would never buy it, doesn't mean someone else won't''.
Let me know where these ''idiots'' have access to $20 Mario Karts and I'll kick you down some cash.
>>321897217
No. It not sure worse. It's a consumer right to be able to sell and buy used things.
>>321897217
I used to sell and buy used games via eBay and the likes a lot. Never in my life have I payed full price for a game. But with the money saved I bought/buy discounted games. That should be taken into consideration.
Also I think gamestop is cancet, giving the used market a bad reputation.A few games that I genuinely loved, I payed for after pirating.
>>321897217
HEY QT
YEAH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2haRSNr08M
>>321897217
Gamestop is really bad in how they try to get the customers to buy used instead of new so they can pocket all of the money. And converting their stock to used so they can raise the price like Xenoblade. They might as well be bootleggers.
>>321908464
This visuals are amazing. This was produced by Sophie wasn't it?
>>321908256
After getting into the ''collecting'' community locally it devolved into shit talking, feuds, back dealing, etc. Lot of entitlement and petty bullshit that really turned me off of the whole thing.
I sell on eBay too and I remember someone brought me the latest NBA2kwhatever and were surprised that I would only be able to give them $20, they told me they paid $68 just a few days ago. I told them Gamestop had it for like $40 and eBay had new ones at $38. He didn't know he could games cheaper than Walmart or Target.
My deal with Gamestop is to just never trade in. Buy, preorder, browse but unless you can't sell on eBay or Craigslist for whatever reason then don't trade in. Hell I even find games at Gamestop that I flip on Ebay.
>>321909443
>This visuals are amazing
When I rule the world every video will have amazing visuals.
>>321908805
>buying from a physical store front
just getting what you deserve, really.
>b-b-but im supporting the locals
yeah, unless your buying fucking honey, or some menial shit actually grown in their backyard, like weed, its not local. your locals, buy shit from non-locals, the money STILL filters out. it just takes an extra step along the way. you think gamestop burns its own dvds, makes its own fucking games?
>>321897217
>denying a sale
what is this meme? You can offer a product, people can buy it or not but you don't have a right to have someone buy your shit. Potential sales are not a commodity that can be stolen, you don't own potential sales because they don't exist. You could say that any company that competes with you "denies" you sales. Neither piracy nor reselling are morally wrong.
>>321910331
>you think gamestop burns its own dvds, makes its own fucking games?
Rumor has it that after the initial batch of Xenoblade Chronicles for the Wii had completely sold out, they actually started printing their own copies.
>>321897217
Piracy is good and bad. On the good side we get to try a game out properly and see if we like it enough to buy it since we don't have demos anymore basically. On the bad side most people will never buy it and just keep the pirated copy and short handing the developer so then they lose out on money for new games.
>>321912089
Lawyers and shit use that ''denial of sale'' shit all the time for music and movies. As if everyone that downloads a song would've actually paid the .99 otherwise.
>>321912425
oh, well, i wasnt going to go this far in my intial post, but where did those dvds come from? even if you answer from the local store...where did the local store get the dvds from?
its just adding steps between the money going NOT locally.
>>321912621
Yeah those laws that allow this should not even exist. It stems from the fact that they tried to treat intelectual products the same as physical products but it doesn't work anymore because copying intelectual works became easy for anyone to do. Then they tried to modify the law to stop people from copying because they thought of it as physical property. If you go to your neighbor look at his bike and make one that looks the same does the company have the right to that bike and not you? In what reality is the answer yes? The difference is that you can't easily copy a bike and that has to be taken into account with intelectual property, you can't simply sell it and punish people for copying because copying is not wrong itself since it harms nobody nor does it damage or take away anyone's property.
>>321912089
>you don't have a right to have someone buy your shit
Do you have a right to have somebody pay for something you made?
If your answer is no that undermines basically everything about a society with concepts of property. I'd recommend living with the pre-Colombian American peoples.
>>321914203
good point, we should legally obligated people to pay for everything, even if dont want it. by the way, have i got the product for you. my own tinned shit
hold on as i steal some tv with my vcr, steal music via radio and steal books from the library
>>321914484
>even if dont want it
You're misunderstanding (deliberately or not) what I'm saying.
I'm asking if you think people have a right to own something you made and you set a price for, without paying you?
Yes or no.
>>321914203
you can sell stuff you made and own, but you can't stop people from making a copy of it.
>>321914714
>you can't stop people from making a copy of it
Legally that's only true in some places and depends on what the product is.
Thankfully you actually responded with some intelligence.
The debate around intellectual property is what we're talking about right now.
I'm not sure I have a real answer. It's going to be fought about for more decades.
>>321897217
Is this retarded capitalist agenda time featuring faggots?
There's nothing wrong with buying used games.
Buying from fuckers overpricing them? Yes. The so call piracy? Arguably.
>>321914592
can you say they should? who do we pay the royalties to for the creation of the wheel?
>>321915332
>can you say they should?
Nope, it's a question society as a whole has to answer, all I can do is philosophize about it. I think the problems with our current economic mode is much deeper than whether copyright infringement should be legal or not.
The creator of the wheel lived in a pre-industrial and even pre-Civilization world, so it's a moot point but I understand what you mean.
![1445704659297[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/b64oChD.jpg "1445704659297[1].jpg")
>>321897217
Didn't read your post. Post more QT.
>>321897217
>>new consumer buys game for less than market price, and almost certainly denies a sale since they would have probably bought it.
What do you base this on? My understanding is that a lot of people who buy used games can not afford to buy full price ones.
Don't mind me, just pirating this meat. No biggy, right?
>>321915574
its not a moot point. its wrong to steal, unless you dont know who your stealing it from? shit man, i do that all the time. we should just stop using the wheel so we can honor his families estate, yes? or we could start counting the trillions and billions we all owe him, put it into an account so when we do figure it out...
your basically saying you shouldnt commit a crime your...committing right now
>>321915952
>he literally figured out how to duplicate meat
>he just figured out how to feed 7 billion people for free and hes worried about piracy
There is literally nothing wrong with being a pirate.
>>321915952
where's the copy you left in the freezer? You didn't pirate shit, you fucking sand nigger meat thief
>>321915997
>we should just stop using the wheel so we can honor his families estate, yes?
You could, but the invention pre-dates the very concept of intellectual property, and again pre-dates organized human cohabitation.
You're just being a fag at this point though.
>inb4 you repeat the same thing for a third time
>>321915952
dont mind me just pirating this art. no biggie, right?
>>321914843
That is morally wrong in all places regardless of legality. People who copy stuff you made do you no harm nor do they take away or harm your property, they just make a thing that looks like the one you have, you can't punish them and be in the right because harming someone who did not harm anyone is wrong.
Sadly I don't have an answer to how to solve selling intelectual works either. But we will never get to it as long as the government keeps pretty much whoring out legislation to big copyright holders to increase the punishments for a non-crime. If we just scrapped copyright completely, the people who produce would have to find a different way to sell their products. Some might stop doing it sure, but the demand will not disappear and as long as there is demand, someone will come and sell the stuff.
Yes.
But the reason is the industry for being so quick profit focused instead of the bigger picture.
Games companies literally only care about the first month a game has been out.
Anything else is gravy.
If a game doesn't move X units in that first month, it is considered a failure even if it made a profit.
It's fucking retarded.
If all new games prices were halved, it has been proven in various studies in various industries, EVEN GAMING (game sales, especially Steam and Humble Bundle) that games would more than TRIPLE in sales. They've made their money back and then some.
The price of games is so expensive that most people will only buy games they are a fan of, and maybe something they saw an ad for on TV that looked decent enough.
Believe it or not, the majority of gamers don't give a single fuck about reviews, gaming sites, gaming communities or anything else.
So they rarely get exposure to larger games.
This is a huge problem because most of them would enjoy the fuck out of a large number of games without a large advertising budget.
But they will never buy these games because they are highly priced.
Now, half that price. How often do you pick up a cheap game because it sounds interesting?
It's only half price, you have a few spare bucks sitting around, get.
THIS is why it would more than triple the sales, because it uses what the used games market have been using for a decade now, as well as the fast food market, and everything else.
Smaller numbers tend to attract more sales than the cost of halving said content.
FUCKING DO IT.
>>321916231
>intellectual property isnt retroactive
>mfw he fails to dispute me for the third time
>>321914592
Yes they do as long as they don't take it from you by force. Having a thing that's the same as the thing you made is not a crime.
>>321900807
I know of 3 in los angeles, They survive off other shit like magic the gathering and other card/board games. I know the owner of one personally and he says without the cardboard crack they would not survive.
>>321900807
Can I ask a serious question. Why is GameStop so "cancerous"? Who are they hurting
>>321916302
>People who copy stuff you made do you no harm nor do they take away or harm your property, they just make a thing that looks like the one you have, you can't punish them and be in the right because harming someone who did not harm anyone is wrong.
Well you haven't really reasoned your way there or offered any compelling argument, but you're entitled to that opinion. I don't assert a moral stance on it one way or the other.
You're also ignoring various elements (people being unable to fund new content if they aren't paid for preexisting content), simplifying others (crimes can ONLY be crimes if they harm my property) and conflating things that shouldn't be (harm and justice).
> to increase the punishments for a non-crime
You're mistaken. It is a crime to infringe on copyright (in the U.S.) you're saying it's not an immoral action, which is different.
Little confusions like that muddle the debate, you should steer clear from saying stuff like that. It is a crime. Should it be? That's a different thing.
>Some might stop doing it sure, but the demand will not disappear and as long as there is demand, someone will come and sell the stuff
I'm not saying you're wrong. It would be good if you had demonstrable alternatives to the current system.
>>321915952
Think of the poor cows that were killed for that meat. You should pay reparations.
>>321897217
Used games
>one person buys game
>person no longer uses game, so he sells it
>purchaser gets a better deal for buying used game
>game developer still has the same number of people playing game as well as an expanded audience that might buy future releases
Piracy
>one person buys game
>game is copied ad infinitum
>despite the significant increase in people playing the game, the developer only gets a marginal return on sales and the majority of these players won't pay for the sequel either
Quit trying to act like piracy isn't the worst thing for sales.
Limit game ownership to 2 times.
>>321916835
Their practices create a shitty industry that perpetuates shitty consumers.
They massively overprice used games, knocking off a small margin in order to get maximum profit off of products they simply stock and do nothing else to manufacture.
They actively encourage upsells for garbage and membership cards that are carefully coordinated to save the customer little and benefit the store tremendously.
And I know what you're going to say next so let me head that off at the pass.
>Other places do that
Yes, they aren't good either but this discussion is about Gamestop, you need to demonstrate their value, I don't have to demonstrate how other places are worse, just that Gamestop is bad.
They exist mainly because internet infrastructure is still really bad and because poorly informed consumers make up the majority of video game buyers.
![12145408_434404076745012_1928479388_n[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/P0YgFXH.jpg "12145408_434404076745012_1928479388_n[1].jpg")
>>321917231
I don't see how the used buyer is any more likely to buy future releases new than the pirate is. He'll just buy it used too.
>>321897217
Piracy doesn't necessarily mean a lost sale, if i do pirate a game it's because i can't afford buying a full price game and don't want to wait, i'll get it once it's on sale or i feel i can justify buying it full price (which is very rare since i can get 6-12 other games for that same price during a sale), i really have to fucking love it for the latter to be the case.
I feel like consumers of video games and creators of video games will have different opinions on this.
Maybe everybody should be forced to make at least one game.
>>321917231
>as well as an expanded audience that might buy future releases
Theres people that only buy used games to save $5 to $10.
>>321917632
Opinion doesn't matter, piracy will happen no matter what you think of it, it's better to accept it and try to add value to your game, making people want to pay for it, Witcher 3 would be the prime example.
>>321917867
>it's better to accept it and try to add value to your game, making people want to pay for it
People will still pirate a great game.
You're talking like people only pirate bad games.
If anything it's the opposite. Shitty games don't get pirated because there is no interest for them (for the most part).
>>321917823
Those people are cancerous. Not pirates.
>I want to keep Gamestop alive and save only $5 in the process
Why, seriously why?
$5 is worth it to get rid of businesses like that.
![12346035_580506125435821_80049754_n[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/n8KOh7w.jpg "12346035_580506125435821_80049754_n[1].jpg")
>>321918110
Most game publishers are just as cancerous as Gamestop. Why pay $5 extra just to keep THEM alive?
>>321917231
>This is what console plebs believe.
>>321918364
>Most
Hmm... you have a point. I hate a lot of publishers and I do avoid giving them money.
EA, Activision and Ubisoft
However, they aren't ALL as bad as gamestop. So that's my reasoning.
I will pay $5 to keep 2K alive or Sega (examples), I like some of the shit they're doing.
>>321916917
>Well you haven't really reasoned your way there
Ok I don't really understand what makes it wrong? It's pretty basic thing hurting someone or their property is universally considered wrong so that is something that is punished. If you want to punish someone for hurting your "potential property" you could punish anyone for anything because anything could be your potential property. Again the example being a company A that competes with company B can "take away potential profits" from company B by the fact that somebody decided to buy the product from A not B. You could say that a person living next door to your business is looking ugly at your customers and loses you your "potential sales". That's why I think it's wrong. Don't know if that is enough.
>crimes can ONLY be crimes if they harm my property
By "my| I meant me as a general person so anyone(might have been confusing but I have seen it used like that pretty often, sorry english is not my main language.). And not just property but also life. If somebody doesn't harm anyone nor anyones property by their actions what did they do wrong exactly?
>It is a crime to infringe on copyright
Sorry you are right, I meant to say victimless crime.
>>321917980
>You're talking like people only pirate bad games.
Did i though? All games gets pirated, shitty games just gets ignored, CDPR has the right idea, do your best to be consumer friendly and people will respect you enough to feel bad about piracy, if they pirate it anyway and still love the game chances are they wouldn't be able to afford it to begin with..
>>321918364
Publishers contribute directly to game development by funding it. Gamestop is literally jews. The middleman that profits off other peoples work.
>>321918110
Thats my point. Some pirates will eventually buy the game to have the online experience, some people even buy their friends some games they liked during sales because they are so cheap.
>all these people justifying intellectual property laws
Absolutely fucking disgraceful.
Intellectual property laws are violent, coercive attacks on liberty. You are preventing the free, unrestricted exchange of information and ideas between groups of people. Rather than providing an incentive for people to WANT to give you money, you instead use your crony state apparatus to FORCE them to give you money while simultaneously denying their friends to make their own autonomous choices about what they can do with their own information.
>>321918690
>It's pretty basic thing hurting someone or their property is universally considered wrong so that is something that is punished
Yes, but the fact that this example ISN'T that doesn't make it automatically right. That's a fallacy. Crime isn't a binary thing.
>If somebody doesn't harm anyone nor anyones property by their actions what did they do wrong exactly?
That's a great question! It strikes at the heart of the debate. But the bigger question is over the definition of 'harm' in this legal context. That is what IP owners would argue with you, not the part about 'wrong' or 'right'.
>I meant to say victimless crime
Well, the victim is alleged to be the IP holder. They're victimized by having something they created and for which they set the parameters of use, violated.
You might argue they are not entitled to establish and regulate how their creation is used.
That's a valid opinion but that's what the debate is about.
Software manufacturers have ALWAYS licensed their products. It's just that recently, we now have less physical media, so it's becoming a bigger issue when software moves more fully digital.
People can't just ignore the licenses since they might not be tied to a physical product.
>>321897217
No. Why would anybody ever believe that?
>>321918715
>CDPR has the right idea, do your best to be consumer friendly and people will respect you enough to feel bad about piracy
So if I check torrent sites right now, I will see that people have responded by pirating the Witcher 3 much less? It will have very few seeders compared with other more "unfair" companies?
Keep in mind, I pirate, I just don't think you have a great argument.
>>321899368
This. Justification is garbage. Wanna know why I pirate? Because I can. Would I buy the games otherwise? No idea really, never thought about it. I've never bought a game if I couldn't pirate it - I just pirated another game.
>>321897217
wow OP, did you intend for you picture to relate to your topic so well?
I'm being serious
A thread about consumer behaviour, and you use a picture of an "underground" music artist who is singlemindedly obsessed with building her own brand.
QT is annoying as hell
>>321897217
Video games will go the way of the porn industry. I honestly don't understand how the porn industry hasn't collapsed already.
>>321908464
Is this song about femdom or something?
>>321901507
Except you're a retard.
No one is forcing you to be entertained. You are more than welcome to sit in a dark room and make your own entertainment for yourself.
You whine about being a slave to consumption. That you're forced to work in trade for yoru entertainment, but what have you ever done for anyone else?
>>321919542
>I honestly don't understand how the porn industry hasn't collapsed already
Ignorant consumers, although these kind of diminish all the time.
Still though, I know I would consider paying for custom doujins, so people must pay camwhores and stuff for custom 3DPD porn.
This is such a stupid argument. Piracy is obtaining something you don't have the rights to without purchase.
Selling it to someone else is selling an item you purchased.
One is theft, one is transfer.
And the same morons who kept arguing with this back in the day are now bitching day in and day out that devs no longer prioritize the PC after years of torrenting.
It doesn't matter what you think, it's what the devs think, and to them, piracy is theft... which is why they call it "piracy".
And in an increasingly digital world, where many of us don't own physical games anymore, the fact a physical copy isn't involved doesn't matter to the devs one tiny bit.
For the Producers/Developers?
Used games are worse than piracy
For Consumers and retailers.
Used games are an important part of the economy.
The problem with used games, is that it helped create the terrible DLC/Preorder/Online pass economy we now have to deal with.
I'd honestly be just fine with physical media dieing out, and gamestop/other brink and mortar businesses going out of business.
If you're so cheap, you need to save $5 by buying used, you shouldnt be playing videogames in the first place.
They're supposed to be a luxury resource
>>321918110
But this IS a thing.
Games are pretty expensive and people will go for the lower priced game most times because that price just feels right.
Most companies are too fucking stupid to even to some basic research in to the prices of games to see that bringing prices down to this point would shift a shitload more units than they currently do.
Games at half the price they are now would get a considerably higher number of impulse buys.
And provably more so than the cost it would take to half them.
As I mentioned above, the fast food industry already did the research, the film industry, the music industry.
The games industry are the only ones retarded enough to have stupidly high price points for media.
Fuck man, you can get a decent meal at a middle-tier restaurant for that price. (I could go one now actually)
>>321919251
I didn't say that, how do you feel about the fact that they are pandering to your good will? Wouldn't you want more companies to follow suite? That is my point.
>>321919542
Where there is demand, someone will come to satisfy that demand. That is how the porn industry survives and that is how the videogame industry survives and any other industry. Unless the demand disappears the supply will remain.
>>321919958
>Used games are worse than piracy
No. At least they get a single payment.
The elites are pretty smart, so I can see them establishing basic income across the planet.
If they don't, they'll be butchered like before they established socialism.
Socialism and basic income are cheap ways to keep the masses from butchering you in order to live any decent lives. Smart elites figured that out in the 19th century after industrialism became a thing.
If modern elites are dumb though, they will let global masses of people breed more and get more cranky and then they'll just be killed. No amount of drones can protect you from masses once they chimp out.
Bismark knew this. I'm sure people are aware of it.
>>321920157
So does piracy.
>>321919840
>One is theft
Wrong.
Even the law doesn't call piracy theft, because it isn't.
It's copyright infringement. Please stop parroting that stupid idea.
>>321919694
>That you're forced to work in trade for yoru entertainment, but what have you ever done for anyone else?
worked
>>321919958
>Consumers
>Used games are an important part of the economy
Eh, I don't know anymore.
In the 90's it was for me. Now, I don't know, it's value has diminished, because of the economy. It's still worthwhile if I can buy a game from a friend or a guy on craigslist for $20 less. If I can only get it $5 less at a store, that's dumb and all I'm doing is propping up a dying industry (3rd party retailers) which is ridiculous.
>>321920195
Are you retarded? Literally nothing in that post makes any sense.
>>321919965
>Games at half the price they are now would get a considerably higher number of impulse buys.
I agree, which is why Steam works.
YOU DON'T SAVE THAT AS GAMESTOP THOUGH.
They cut $5-10 and keep the massive difference.
They would die out if they didn't scam like that too.
>>321920295
It's still stealing a product for no charge. And again, even you call it fucking piracy.
It's semantics. Fine, I'll call it the unauthorized and illegal use of another person's work for no charge. Happy?
Anyway, your opinion is irrelevant. All that matter is the developer and where they put their resources and attention. It sure as hell isn't on pc anymore.
>>321920249
If 4000 people buy, 4000 copies are sold.
If 2000 people buy, then 2000 buy used copies, 2000 copies are sold.
If 1 person buys and uploads, 4000 people download, 1 copy was sold.
>>321920026
I want good games to be made and I reward companies that do with purchases.
I don't think that people who pirate do so mainly because of game quality though. That's what you argued and I don't agree (and I pirate things).
>>321920591
>It's still stealing a product
No it isn't. It's copying a product. The law around it doesn't even call it theft, so when random people do it's even more retarded.
Neither piracy nor used sales are damaging to gaming. Modern gaming sucks, yet it's thriving. So you don't have to worry. Your shitty little PS4 is doing great. Your stupid $400 paywall to Bloodborne? Yeah don't fucking worry about it - It's standing strong.
Piracy does not damage gaming, because pirates are proven to consume more media than non-pirates. There have been several studies on this which you can look up. Anti-pirates never address this fact directly, because if they did, their whole logic would fall apart. This alone dismantles the entire foundation of their argument, that is why they will either simply ignore it, or they will come up with some shitty excuse / shoddy reasoning.
If you are skeptical of this, think about it for a second. If someone pirates, they are probably the kind of person who is very tech savvy, plays a lot of video games, etc. They are probably very cynical and they simply don't want to pay $60 for every game that comes out. Anti-pirates are almost always normies who argue "you're just poor!" and "get a job!"; that's what the debate ends up boiling down to in the end.
I used to pirate a lot. Sometimes the game was so good that I felt compelled to support it and I wanted to actually own the game. Now that I don't have as much time, I simply skip some games that I may have checked out through piracy, and may have ended up buying if they were good enough.
So anti-pirates - Would you rather people pirate the game and perhaps buy it if it's good, or would you rather them simply not buy the game at all? Let me answer that for you - You would prefer the latter, because you're an idiot incapable of critical thinking.
Pretty much, unless you're a gamestop owner.
>>321920249
How do you figure? Every used game has been purchased at least once brand new from a retailer. How does that work out for piracy?
>>321920601
That's still one copy, a single payment, which was your original argument.
>>321920601
Yeah.
What if 1000 people buy new, and 4000 copies are then bought used
What if 1 person buys, 5000 people download, and then 1000 people buy to support the devs?
In the end, the devs get the same amount of money, and pirates arent supporting shyster bullies like gamestop
>>321920195
It's hard to argue when everything you say is fucking retarded. That's how the spirit science videos can get traction.
>>321920706
Piracy definitely is harmful to the industry. The amount of harm it does is exaggerated by devs and publishers.
>>321897217
Piracy is worse from a free market perspective because not only is no one making money, the pirates are involuntarily trading nothing for access to the game.
>>321920680
I didn't consciously argue that though, you just interpreted it that way.
>>321920249
A used game is one sold copy, that might pass around to one or two others, but it's a single sale per copy.
A pirated copy is probably a single sale at the beginning, true, but it can be downloaded millions of times.
So let's say a million people acquire copies of the pirated game. And 30% of them (which is probably low on a good title) would buy it... that's 300,000 copies that would have sold, if some douche hadn't put it up for free illegally.
That used copy, if it had a REALLY good run and everybody decided not to keep the title, might go to 4-6 people before it finds a permanent home, probably just 2-3.
So that's, on the low side of piracy 300,000 lost sales for one copy, versus 5-6 on the high side of a single purchase resold.
If I was a dev, I'd hate piracy. And I understand why they do.
>>321920195
It truly is.
Socialist welfare is simply the most efficient way to improve the lower classes considerably.
Most welfare systems can save money by doing it, only a smaller number of them will cost more money, and that is usually because those countries believe in punishing welfare systems. (like the UK, it'd only cost us an extra billion after we remove the shitload of administration costs from the abused job centre, DWP and so on)
This is why the Tory cunts are trying to leave the EU because they are deluded enough in to thinking that they need that extra billion so they can steal it and do fuck-all with it but save it. The Tory higher ups are notoriously fucking greedy and poor-hating drunkards.
>>321920440
You are a minority. We are a minority.
You are not the target market for used games. Kids and young adults are, which is where most of them are. (mainly the young adults component, kids are mainly on their shit iphone games and such)
>>321920535
Pretty much. Steam has proven time and again that the sales make shitloads of money on games.
Look at Humble Bundle too. Any dev that was on that made shitloads of money despite the low average sale cost, simply because some of it went to charity.
All those small numbers add up. People forget this all the time.
It's like bandwidth-use on websites.
Yeah, sure, that piece of text might only be a few bytes. Multiply it by a million users. It is now a few million bytes. Small things are ALWAYS significant.
I just wish someone would try it. Just one company. Just one game. Do it as an experiment.
A side game to an engine that already exists, to content that mostly already exists.
The console industry would change for the better if they did. The half-price, hell, even 2/3 price point to test the waters, it would work.
>>321897217
>Those that pirate might buy the game new later on, even if at a reduced price, others wouldn't buy it regardless just because they can get it for free.
>Those that buy it used will never buy it new because they already own a physical copy and buying stuff used doesn't carry the stigma of piracy.
You tell me, OP.
It's a fact that piracy/used sales are a scapegoat for devs and publishers that release shit games or have unrealistic high sales expectations of their incredibly mediocre piece of crap.
It does cause some harm, but not in the amount they want you to believe.
All you have to do is make good games, games people enjoy, establish a fanbase, and not treat your bread and butter like shit.
>>321920680
So, let's say we develop the tech to copy anything we want. Like, a car. You think manufacturers should be cool and happy if i copy a $50,000 vehicle for the cost of whatever basic material i require?
Oh, or what if you write a dissertation for school, and I copy that and hand it in before yours... I didn't steal it, I just copied it and made it my own. Should the school and you be happy with that?
The argument is bullshit, especially when you're copying digital games that often sell as digital only options. You're taking the exact same product others are buying, and not paying.
>>321920926
Then the sales for the original publisher are 1000.
Then the sales for the original publisher are 1000.
These whatifs don't really work since they have pretty simple answers. If they can't survive on the 1000 sales they should go broke or change because that kind of business obviously doesn't work. What do you want to do, forbid people from selling stuff they own? That's a smart move I'm sure.
>>321921090
I don't care, if i can't afford buying i game i will pirate it, not because i hate the dev but because i love their game and i will buy it once i am able to afford it. So spare me your morals.
>>321920861
I assumed that you understood that when I said "a single payment", you would understand that was for a single copy of a used game. Every used game was purchased brand new at some point.
>>321920451
It's off topic, but it all makes sense.
Sort of the opposite of most of this thread.
>>321920926
You really think people buy used at a 4:1 ratio?
Bullshit.
Or that a pirated torrent is only going to be downloaded 5000 times, and 4/5 of those pirates will then buy it anyway?
That's a fantasy, on both counts.
>>321921429
Whatever, it was a joke, no need to sperg over it.
A good example for me is with Just Cause 3.
I haven't played it or bought it yet, because it's taking forever to crack because of Denuvo.
>inb4 somebody says Denuvo means it can't be craked
Anyway, I will play it when it gets cracked in like a month or six or whatever, but I'll likely have lost motivation to actually purchase it.
Maybe during a Steam sale for 75% off.
>>321920808
Somebody had to have the data to upload it.
The difference is that a used copy can only be actively used by one person.
A pirated copy can be simultaneously enjoyed by millions of people (theoretically, probably more like thousands).
>>321921406
You buy it every time? Can you say that all these other people do?
Sorry, but more often then not pirates don't give back what they "copy". They might intend to, but they don't.
And you calling it morals shows that, despite your BS arguments, you know it's not entirely cool... it's an illegal activity you willingly indulge in.
If you want to pirate games, cool, but be man and call it what it is. You're taking what other people are paying for free of charge, and benefiting from the work of others while offering no payment.
>>321920960
What's retarded about it? I assume most people understand that there are different classes of people, the rest is basically just self evident observations about welfare and its history until the present.
>>321921706
Fucking this, preventing piracy actually lessens the chance of me buying a game i'm on the fence about, i'm guessing because the hype dies down quickly and i forget about it if i can't play it.
>>321900431
your argument is still retarded since if you get caught pirating you need to take full accountability and pay all legal fees. You're implying contracts and down payments is the main factor on whether or not something is stealing. This board needs to implement an 18+ policy or a do you have a job prerequisite.
>>321921898
I don't buy every time for the simple reason not every game i pirate i like, but i'd argue a lot more people buy the game after pirating it due to steam sales now compared to 10 years ago, every game i like i buy, be it a year down the line or three. So no, fuck your moral bullshit.
>>321921365
Yes. If such tech would allow people to make cars hatt could compete with price,convenience and quality of products made by manufacturers they would have to adapt. I presume it would lead to instead of selling cars, selling the creation of custom designs. But those are very hypothetical questions, such technology is pretty much impossible.
Buying tech to create + buying material + time and work to create will always be more costly than buying a finished product where the cost of tech and work is distributed among many products. You would have to have a tech that is free and material that is free and even then people would still buy cars because manufacturers would be able to use the tech as well and save people time to create.
No that is a different issue and it's called cheating. The schools have their own policy on this.
>>321903158
its called demos you faggot, how is it possible there is 3 billion women on earth and you're still avirgin.
>>321922590
To be honest, most of the whole "build at home" 3D printing age won't really take off maintstream for large items, only small things.
And even that is questionable.
Most 3D printing age stuff will only be at a local warehouse or store like it is now.
Instead of them storing loads of products, they will just have 3D printers instead.
You order a thing, it gets printed, pick it up "next day" / "in 6 hours" / etc.
They'll obviously have a few pre-printed things sitting around that cater to generic tastes to try get a quick sale, but most people will still prefer to go custom if they have the choice and it comes out at a price in the same area.
I think, realistically, the only time 3D printing will take off in at least 50% of homes is when they reach the atomic printing level, or even full-on Star Trek replicator tier stage where they print things straight from energy.
But until we crack the higgs boson, that won't be happening for a while.
>>321897217
With used games, the number of people playing the games is always almost perfectly equal to the copies sold. With piracy, there is always a significant difference between the amount of people who bought and the amount of people playing the game.
>>321899418
This is not the same thing. Publishers pay devs to do the work. They get a product in return. They sell the product. But it's so easy for people to just make a copy on their own that some don't buy it and copy instead. Mind you they don't steal it because the publisher still has the product. Publisher might feel cheated but the problem isn't people, the problem is publisher selling something that doesn't have high value since it's so easy to copy. The value lies with developers who should now cut out the middle man and still get paid. One of the ways it has been done already is kickstarter. Might not be the best but it's a start.
>>321923003
>But until we crack the higgs boson
Day 1 pirate.
>>321923516
Publishers need money to pay the devs and they get that money from customers buying the product. No customers = no money = no profit
>>321923003
Well again. Tech, material and work are still an extra cost to a consumer. The manufacturer can make the product while distributing the cost of work and tech over many products while also saving the consumer from the time, work and expertise needed to create the product. Mass production is still cheaper and more convenient for wast majority of people.
>>321923817
But that's the problem of the publishers. People can pay the devs directly. Publishers are not necessary.
>>321924092
Do you have any idea how the video game industry works?
>>321923523
Pls no, the God dude ghost guy will be mad and fucking cancel universe 2.
We only have an effective play time of 3 trillion years before they kill the servers for this game.
Shits gonna blow man.
>>321924726
I don't have to. I know how economy works. I as a general consumer am not a charity for companies to make sure they have enough money. I want a product and I want the best ratio of price and value. The person or company who gives it to me will get my money. If they make it in such a way that it lets me get it for free I will get it for free and they will lose money therefore their model is bad. The consumers always try to get the best for the lowest price and the companies have to adapt.
>>321925239
You need to be 18 to be on this website
>>321925473
So why should anyone pay more when they can pay less or nothing to get the same thing?
neither are bad both are good
/thread
>>321925239
But companies always work together to try keep prices affordable both to them and their consumers.
Believe it or not, most companies, even ones that seemingly hate each other, all communicate with each other regularly.
Be it directly or indirectly, they work together to prevent their industries from crashing due to people trying to outprice them.
Sometimes some companies take this a little more personally and they go full price-fixing and even outright attacks on smaller competitors. (or try buy them out and kill them entirely so they get nowhere, then release their products somewhere down the line)
Nobody wants the industry to fall so far it becomes unprofitable.
Whenever you see a sudden large price drop in something from an industry full of competitors, it is usually because talks fell through in their respective committees / coalitions / whatever other groups that have formed to promote and maintain their industries.
>>321925736
No one is going to make anything if no one gets paid. Kickstarter gives money straight to the devs so thats super and all but it hasn't gone too well, such as the 3.3 million dollar man. The system we have in place is there because it works. You have a better idea? Let's hear it.
Piracy
>kid who would have bought the game gets it for free and then claims afterward that he never would have bought it
Used
>first person buys game for $X
>first person sells game to second person for $Y
>first person now has $Y to put toward the next new game
>>321925736
Because with the knowledge you have, you know that paying just slightly more also supports your industry you enjoy.
It does influence your overall happiness with time because others also made that decision, and people will make this decision now and in 10, 20, 50 years time, the gaming industry will still be alive and well.
If everyone thought the same, if everyone always went for the cheapest item regardless, most industries would collapse. Hard.
Of course, even then, most people like new, shiny, official things.
This is the reason restaurants still exist, even high-tier ones, despite some fairly decent fast foods and cafés around the place. (not generic shit ones like McDs or whatever, I mean your street vendors, your family run eateries and stuff like that, those little gems in the side street, or even the main street)
In the end, it is just difference of opinion really.
Some would rather save money, some would rather spend it.
If you have the money to help support an industry, why not?
If you don't have the money to support it, hell, buy second hand if you want, or even pirate.
But also question your life if you are wasting time playing loads of things instead of trying to get a decent job or at least a better and more stable income.
In this day and age, you can make a great income online with relatively little effort. I am speaking 3-6 hour days, depending on what it is you get in to.
>>321926094
They can't attack anyone that's fucking illegal. If they buy them out they lose money and somebody else can come and compete again. Nobody can indefinitely buy out competition because eventually they will run out of money. They cannot stop competition in a free market. Competition is good and it gives us better prices and better quality. If a competitor comes who provides better games for less money, he will get larger share of the market simply because more people buy the stuff they made. They can't make you set your prices higher, they can't force you, you can call the police if they try. I haven't bought a 60$ aaa in like ever because I believe that is too much for what they offer. And believe it or not now there are 20-30 dollar games that offer good quality that I buy. Seems like this supply/demand works to me.
>ignore how most people do things, ignore the benefits, proceed with worst case scenario
every dumb antipiracy debate every time
>>321926847
I'd rather pay nothing than support something like Gamestop.
That's not to say i don't have hundreds of games on steam.
>giving my money to scumbag corporation is better than giving it to other scumbag corporation
Developers dont get diddly dick from sales via physical stores, it goes to the publisher.
>>321897217
For developers, they're both shit.
For consumers, they're both shit.
For gamestop, used games are better.
>>321926418
These people who publish games now deserve exactly 0 dollars since the best value for best games i can get is 0 dollars. If they all go broke right now, videogames don't stop being created, someone else is going to make them maybe in a way that is more profitable.
>>321897217
Recently played Guacamelee Gold Edition quite a bit with a GoG installer. I was having a blast and about halfway through hard mode and noticed Super Turbo Championship Edition was on sale. I used Steam card sales to fund my purchase. So now I have the definitive edition of the game and both Guacamelee devs and Steam got their cut.
This is win/win/win all the way around. I know it's stereotypical to say but if I enjoy a game (Shovel Knight is another good example) and like the devs, I will surely buy their product. Even if it's on a humble bundle or sale, I'll support people making quality products.
>>321927050
I don't want to support an industry. I want to buy the best game for the best price. That is all. That is what consumers want. If that price is 0 then I get it for 0 dollars. It's was not my idea for them to make a product that I can just get for free. It is their job to make sure they don't go broke not mine.
>>321900807
where in canada? I know a few places there's more than 5 in my city but some of them try to be like gamestop by overpricing older games(console wars and before) or giving you less trade back than stores like gamestop for new games. Otherwise they're usually good can fine rare games at rates that aren't too bad
Almost every non-consumable item can be bought used, legally. There's no reason that video games should be an exception.
Almost every non-consumable item can be returned for a refund. There's no reason that video games should be an exception.
Only talentless spoiled indie devs would disagree with any of this.
>>321927185
Sadly, it does happen.
And yes, it is highly illegal.
They try to do it subtly by spreading FUD about companies, giving shit reviews on review sites, and even some serious hard fuckers will literally try poison / damage / tamper with your products.
Price-fixing is also a pretty huge problem in some industries.
As for the price of games, trust me, I agree with you on the 30 mark.
I'm the one up a bunch of posts championing that games should all half their prices and gain a considerable increase in sales.
Steam has proven it works many times over that other universes felt it.
>>321927372
No it doesn't.
There are a huge pie charts of where that money goes that varies from one company to the next.
Publishers, devs, advertising, store, distribution and so on.
It is true that there are some shite abusive publishers out there that take a huge amount of the money, but luckily they tend to have died out anyway. Huzzah.
>>321928061
Some do. People also want free food, doesn't mean the streets are crawling with people looking in bins, only a few people here and there.
People will buy something new because it hasn't been touched by someone else, it is theirs.
A lot of people only buy used if they are adventuring in to games they don't usually play, or old games they can't find new any more.
Some will buy exclusively used games simply because they are cheaper.
There are many reasons for both industries to exist.
Used Games can even help people get interested in a series in the future.
Regardless, as above, they are still too expensive when sold new, which is where most of the damage is being caused.
They could adapt and get even more money, or continue to suffer. It's their industry they are fucking up. I can MAKE games if I want to, I already do. I don't care for super high-res ultra HD dick edition DLC megatextures. Hell, I play Dwarf Fortress without texture packs.
>>321899763
I don't think this is the case but that always cracks me up when people are trying to whitewash stealing.
It's stealing. It is. Who fucking cares pussy. Just admit it. Man up and accept it. You have a very good reason to with a lot of games - they're shit. They're mediocre and the majority of the budget was spent on advertising to make it look great. The publisher or devs lie to you.
But don't
just don't
act like you're an INTERNET VIDEO GAME CRUSADER WHO PIRATS FER JUSTICE11!
You're a fuckin nobody that stole something because it was easy and you won't get caught.
>>321927746
Ok so the best value I can get for a car is also $0, oh I can also get food for $0 and I can get anything I want really for $0, I just have to steal it, oh I'm sorry I mean pirate it.
>>321927776
Incremental upgrades requiring you to re-buy the game is bullshit, no matter how cheap it is, make it fucking DLC if it's the same fucking game.
It's the main reason i haven't got Sleeping Dogs Definite Edition even though it's dirt cheap, i'd like the enhanced graphics but i won't buy the same game again, it's a matter of principle.
>>321925239
Are you aware that publishers provide the money and resources developers use to make a game? What you're proposing is essentially nonsensical in the system currently exists.
Crowd funding could help developers get the initial investment to go independent, but that also has its problems.
>>321929280
Yeah, I hate incremental re-buys, re-releases and shit.
I've not bought any upgraded re-releases.
It's just not something I could support doing.
The only way I would buy a re-release is if it came with a hugely new way of playing, new content and such.
For example, the FF7 remake. That will play totally different from the original game, but still (probably, hopefully!) the original core style to it.
But if it was just a plain old HD re-release, scaled up textures, improved models, new soundtrack, fuck that noise. (FFX / X-2 HD. eugh)
On the point of used games, it's still putting money somewhere in the economy and it might be a good alternative if you don't have the money for a full priced game and don't want to pirate.
On the point of Piracy. Admit you're cheap, greedy or poor, that's all there is to it. If we all pirate the industry will collapse because there will be NO cash flow. A minority pirating won't destroy the industry but it may lead to an increase in prices. So thanks for being cheap and greedy, sorry if you're poor but that's why they have used games.
>>321898901
>I want to play a game, but I don't want to pay for it
>>321930126
>used games
>2015
Only if you're console pleb that can stand shit like 30fps and huge input lag.
>>321899368
>>321898901
You also have the ability to steal food from kids.
Do you?
Kids are fat anyways, so you'd be doing them a favor, right?
>>321930126
>piracy
>increasing prices
thousands versus millions mang.
maybe 10k people pirate a game. 5m buy it.
its a drop in an ocean.
>>321930126
>A minority pirating won't destroy the industry but it may lead to an increase in prices.
You mean used as an excuse to raise prices?
When we talk about developers third party are the first one coming in mind, and these guy can do serious damage to the industry lowering the quality standards making potential clients lose trust in the industry.
We are grasping this when you hear people say things like "games hardly worth the download". Digital sales becoming a thing may be proof if this.
>>321897217
Used games keeps the Gamestop open, since the profit margin publishers gives brick and mortar stores for selling new games is so low. The main reason they sell new games is to get people in the door hoping they buy used games or trend merch, which have massively higher profit margins.
Used games keep the specialized stores open and stocking older games. Piracy just prevents sales.
Buying used games is more stimulating to the economy. Theoretically, copying and redistributing limitless amount of pirated copies would devalue the game drastically.
>>321930516
Piracy is not theft.
>>321930516
>hey kid lemme make a perfect copy of your sandwich
oh the horror
>>321897217
The used games argument was something companies told investors during the recession to excuse poor sales. It's misdirection.
>>321932769
>>321933296
Stop playing semantics, you cunts
It was a metaphor. Sorry, you won't learn about metaphors until secondary.
A metaphor is when you make something sound like something else to show a similarity.
Another form is a simile.
Here, let me put it in to words for your simple brains to grasp: Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should, or should be allowed to.
Pure freedom is bad. (that includes the free market, which is the most abused system of market that exists)
Regulations, rules, laws, they are all necessary.
Money is also a sad necessity for now. Maybe when we have asteroid mining society, we can eliminate money, but that won't be solid and stable until the end of the century.
>>321899859
YEA?
>>321934269
>Stop playing semantics, you cunts
>It was a metaphor. Sorry, you won't learn about metaphors until secondary.
>A metaphor is when you make something sound like something else to show a similarity.
>Another form is a simile.
It's not semantics you fucking retard, your metaphor was shit and wrong.
>Here, let me put it in to words for your simple brains to grasp: Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should, or should be allowed to.
Too bad.
>Pure freedom is bad. (that includes the free market, which is the most abused system of market that exists)
Fuck off Marxist.
>Regulations, rules, laws, they are all necessary.
>Money is also a sad necessity for now. Maybe when we have asteroid mining society, we can eliminate money, but that won't be solid and stable until the end of the century.
Never said otherwise fuckface, go preach somewhere else.
>>321935449
I feel bad for you.
>>321935616
>I have no argument because I just got told into the stratosphere
>>321906772
Hannah Diamond a qt.
>>321934269
>>321935449
Sup, Reddit?
>>321935718
If you think that is being told, you are hilarious.
You don't even realize how stupid your own argument sounds. Adorable as always.
Also, if you think pure freedom is good, you are underage.
If pure freedom existed, you, me, everyone here, we'd all probably be dead within the year.
>>321906772
I want to marry Hannah!
>>321936003
>I'm so right and you're so wrong that I don't even need to explain why
>If it's not self-evident why then you're a dumbass LOLOL XDdDd :^PPPP
>>321936325
See, now you are the one that has no argument.
I even stated why part of your argument was so retarded and childish, but your only reaction is hilariously more childish greentext faggotry.
10/10 fgt right there.
>>321903540
yeah?
wow i never thought i'd see pcmusic on /v/. bang bang irony gang
INDUSTRY CRASH WHEN
In theory, the second-hand game market is more detrimental to game developers than piracy. Someone who buys a used game will logically never buy the game new. On the other hand, many people pirate games to decide whether its worth purchasing. If they like, they'll probably buy it new.
Not only that, but buying used games is far more widespread than piracy is.
>>321936557
Tell me what your retarded idea of "pure freedom" is then if you're so focused on it and ignore everything else you said that was fucking retarded.
>>321897217
Hannah is best girl!
>>321936830
please god soon
