>Good level design
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I really liked that area. Never understood the hate for it.
>>321674213
MIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
>>321674543
FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>321674619
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLL
>>321674429
I always hated and had trouble with in in Vanilla. But I really liked how it was in SotFS
>pre-patch amana on console
good times
>>321674429
Probably because you played it on patched or SotFS version.
amana is comfy as fuck
>>321674663
LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>321674429
Did you play it at release, or after? They patched it fast, but it was bullshit for a while. The homing on their spells was more aggressive and their range was actually longer than their render distance. It was a nightmare for people playing melee based characters, and a chore for everyone else who just used bows to snipe their way through.
>>321674962
>>321674429
It's really beautiful, but it's also a huge load of shit for a melee character who wont crutch with poison arrows.
I don't know how I got through this the first time on the release version, there's way less tracking from the mage's spells now
>>321673910
>linear pathway with dumb shits shooting at you for 10 minutes
>not to mention the fuckers that can tread through the water perfectly fine
Nobody wanted a worse version of the swamp in DeS.
Here is good design.
I never really got the hate for this area, and yes I did play it pre-patch.
Even though the spellcasters can snipe you from insanely far away, you still only had to get through this area once, and when you do, the boss is insanely easy. It's not like you have to go through the most op part of Amana every time just to reach the boss. Just try and die until you succeed.
>Whining about Shrine of Amana
>Ever
Even at release, it was piss easy. The game gives you dozens of options to mitigate magic.
>>321675182
Meh. Those three skinny motherfuckers who spawn in and rush you down after you raise the staircase piss me off.
>>321673910
>Pic not related
>>321673910
I have never played the game but I keep seeing shit about this map. Whats wrong with it?
>>321673910
Great place to use a seed when someone invades you.
I don't think I've ever met a single person who defended this map
>>321675808
Mages with homing soul spear, waist deep water with pitfalls and no rusted iron ring in the game, and near the end are 3 strong enemies that rush you from far away while casters are shitting on you if you didn't take them out first
>>321675250
place summon sign and show me how its done feggit
>>321675808
You basically have to cheese it with a bow.
>>321673910
Even the randomly generated chalice dungeons in BB have better design.
>tfw loved Valley of Defilement, Blighttown and The Gutter
I can't be alone on this. I think they seem really shitty at first (which is obviously the intended atmosphere) but once I get used to them it's a lot of fun to explore every nook and cranny of them, and those areas are always loaded with hidden paths and treasures.
>>321676843
No they don't. Chime Maidens are way, way worse.
it's not a bad area they could have done more with the light and water gimmick though...
>>321677280
blight town was one of the best areas the gutter was a little disappointing though
>>321677280
I'm sure you aren't, but I hate swamps. Nightmare Frontier was annoying as fuck too.
>>321677280
The first part of the Gutter was fun with falling down the giant hole and going through the Grave place with the areas that lined the hole.
Once you actually reached the wooden plank shitholes that were in a bottomless pit, it turned to shit.
Seriously, it was a bunch of platforms just floating over a black pit.
Posting actual worst area.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX9IGRimxlg
>>321677592
The gutter seemed eerie, then you find that there are only like 5 real enemies in the entire area and learn to break every poison effigy thing
The jumping you can do in that area is cool though
>>321677931
I ran through the area cause it spooked me and found the bonfire right by the boss. It was ok :^)
>>321674213
EGOOOOOOOON
Just started DS2 for the first time and I feel like DS2's idea of "hard" is "fuck you here's 3-5 enemies at once" all the time.
Maybe it's just been too long since I played DS1 a ton but I don't remember it being this frustrating.
>>321679459
>"fuck you here's 3-5 enemies at once" all the time.
Nope, that's pretty much the idea on most of the areas, have fun.
>>321679459
its not that bad but your complaint is what almost everyone whines about so its probly true
>>321679459
Welcome to DS2!
>>321679459
The only hard parts of the entire souls series is when they force you to manage several enemies at once
>>321679459
Nah I feel the exact same way. They even do it with a lot of the bosses. You thought 2 gargoyles were rough? WELL HERE'S 5!!!! Here's not-Sif with some rats along with him! Here's... 3 big knights instead of one!
Feels to me like the only way to beat these shits is to turtle behind a shield for ages and slowly chip at them whenever a small window of opportunity shows up.
>>321679979
Also Burnt Ivory.
>>321679979
all the knight enemies are easy to parry and can be killed while they get up
if you kill the gargs 1 at a time it stays at 3 i think with 1 almost dead
the dog so long as you dont lock on its ez pz
>>321679459
You will enjoy best boss anon :^)
>>321673910
Said no one ever.
>>321680184
>He didn't find the other knights to seal off the gates and have one left as aggro bait against the now lone Ivory King
>>321680832
>not solo'ing
This level (and the whole game) was EZ as can be once you get the GREAT CLUB.
The whole game becomes a joke after the great club. 2 hand strong attack knocks everyone down, and then you can either keep hitting them or just wait until they get up and knock them down again.
>>321681153
Powerstancing any 2 hammer/mace also gives great results. Poise damage is huge, you can defeat most enemies without them ever doing anything.
>>321675182
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qwU1LQZA5g
>>321673910
You're implying anyone has said this about das2 at all
>>321679459
Like, literally a handful of steps into Forest of Fallen Giants; the first bow guy you find has 4 other enemies lurking nearby only two of which are clearly visible from where you spot him and he starts shooting at you. One of those two is playing dead before the game has shown you some of these enemies play dead.
I don't think Undead Burg pulled any of this shit on that level.
>>321679979
I finished the game and NG+ DLCs included, by using only melee and never summoning. I used light armor that I thought looked good for pretty much my whole playthrough but I switched to heavy for the NG+ DLCs because they were really harder. There is only one moment I felt the game was hard, and it sure as hell wasn't the shrine of amana, that place is so easy it literally blows my mind people would whine about it. The frigid outskirts and the king's pets were the only place and bosses I really found hard even fully geared.
>>321679459
>omg alluring skulls are useful now >:(
>>321681825
There is the crossbow guy by the bonfire shooting at you while you fight the 2 (or 3 if you go close) hollow soldiers.
I really dont get this complaint for DS2, there is a few areas with multiple enemies but they can be easily handled without rushing into them all.
Even the spider bit lets you use a torch where they will literally let you walk right down to the fog gate without coming near you.
I'm still intrigued as to why people say:
_when it's hard on DaS1 or BB, it's a challenge
_when it's hard on DaS2, it's unfair
Why not adapt to the game like you always did before?
>>321679459
It was somewhat fixed in SotFS, if you're not playing it - get it now
>>321673910
>using a fire weapon in a water area
GOOD IDEA ANON
>>321676339
Even after the SotFS patch they still shot homing soul spear at me all the way from that Royal Door shit.
>>321682186
>Dark Souls 1 had interesting level designs with traps and enemies in difficult places
>Bloodborne had interesting level designs with traps and enemies in difficult places. In addition, bosses had multiple phases with hard move sets
>Dark Souls 2 had horrible level design with traps, giant mobs, and broken hitboxes. Some bosses had multiple phases with difficult move sets
>>321682186
People don't like DaS2, so they paint everything negative.
>>321682594
Hot opinions in my face.
>>321682594
>difficult move sets
Maybe you should be playing pikmin or something.
>>321682701
Fine.
>broken hitboxes
>giant mobs
There.
>>321682915
Fair enough.
Why do people complain about many enemies in one area?
I don't get it? is this the >artifical difficulty meme?
Once you understand how the game works, it gets easy enough.
it would be way more fun to play the game in easy mode, and only fight a single enemy at a time, because thats so fun and totally challenging.
>>321681825
Undead burg had stuff but it was much better communicated. There's the ambush by the guys on railings, and the area before the bonfire where you can clearly see the spear sword guys behind the barricades and the crossbow guy before you entered.
I think the real reason that the linked aggression pisses everyone off ties into how enemy tracking works in DaS2. It's much harder to juke enemies, you tend to have to roll through attacks. With several enemies, that becomes a huge pain.
>>321683328
>all or nothing
That's exactly the problem.
FROM have no idea what the word balance means.
It's not about difficulty, it's just tedious and not fun. Especialyl when you can abuse ai reactions and swipe through a whole horde.
>>321683517
Tell us exactly which part you find so tedious?
>>321683330
>I think the real reason that the linked aggression pisses everyone off ties into how enemy tracking works in DaS2. It's much harder to juke enemies, you tend to have to roll through attacks. With several enemies, that becomes a huge pain.
Oh yeah, this is definitely my second complaint. I haven't gotten back in the groove enough yet to be consistent with rolling (also, agility is kinda lame) so it's pretty difficult to fight enemies in any way aside from just waiting behind a shield for them to exhaust their moveset.
>>321673910
>implying anyone has ever said this about DS2
2/10 bait for making me reply
>>321683668
About killing 5+ of the same enemies in a limited space who all have similar AI and animations?
who knows.
>>321683974
No...which part of the game?
>>321675138
>poison arrows
any arrows will do
greatarrows are especially effective.
or just, yknow, use a magic parry shield, or raime's greatshield.
if you are intentionally gimping yourself by not using the tools the game provides, thats not the games fault
Anyone have webms of this? I only played SOTFS and it was pretty easy.
I had a bitch of a time in Amana on SotFS because I missed the cave bonfire over and over.
>>321684218
Path down to the sentinels where you fight 67 royal swordsmen.
The OP area pre and post-nerf.
THE FUCKING GUTTER HOLY SHIT I LOVE FIGHTING 13 DIFFERENT ENEMIES AT ONCE ON A TINY TRAIL.
The whole rat hell even though it was ez.
dead mans wharf.
Most qty > qua places just weren't fun.
Also the poisonous slave camp before poison queen's tower.
>>321684429
First video. This is pre-patch Amana. Keep in mind there is also a part where 2 hammer guys rush you in the water while casters are shooting at you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKhPfZpYQUM
>>321684686
no-mans.
and yeah I'm shitty at names, but most of DS2 was a blur.
>>321684810
also not the gutter, the gulch.
wew
>>321685007
You were correct with the gutter. Black Gulch is the bottom which is mostly just those fucking poison dart statues.
>>321684686
Poison area was annoying ill give you that
>Path down to the sentinels where you fight 67 royal swordsmen.
These cunts can be killed with 1-2 hits as they come through the door together.
Dead mans wharf puts like 2 enemies onto you at once and the gutter has 2-3 one hit undead cronies at once. Jesus those are some of the easier areas.
>>321684728
pretty sure its not like that in sotfs where the bolts just go straight past you
>>321684728
SoTFS looks like pre patch to me
>>321684728
I was just going to say this
>>321685271
Pretty certain it wasnt like that when I played. I remember having to roll some.
>>321685189
That's what I meant actually, it was an awful area because they just put as many variables as possible in a tiny ass place that led down to an even worse boss.
>>321685228
Just because they're easy doesn't mean it's a good place or design.
It doesn't even make sense for that many to be there.
>>321682594
>difficult movesets
you phrased that completely wrong, man
I totally understand what you're saying, because a lot of the boss attacks are fucking retarded, but you're making it seem like you don't want to get le good, which throws DaS2 downies into a meme frenzy
>>321685358
Yeah I was SOTFS in this comment.
>>321685415
Do normal saves from DS2 work with SoTLS upgrade?
>>321676769
Isn't that 90% of Souls 2 though?
>>321685618
No.
>>321685520
I didnt mention it being a good place. I questioned how that bit could possibly be one of the harder/frustrating areas of multiple enemies. That particular one is easier than most.
>>321685686
Not at all.
>>321685769
Tedious != hard
>>321685724
>>321685750
Damn ;_;
I don't want to play through the whole game again to get back to where I am.
>>321685618
Nope
>>321686002
fuck off then, play your inferior version, faggot
>>321685898
It is not tedious either. The whole area consists of a few base hollow undead soldiers.
It is comments like this that convince me most of the shitposting about DS2 is the DS1 fanboys scraping the barrel for things to talk shit about.
We could go tit for tat all day between 1 and 2, Capra demon in a small room with 2 dogs for example. The area before is worse than the gutter with 3 dogs and those ninja guys.
It is all matter of opinion.
>DaS2 discussion happens
>Horde/Group Encounter complaints come up
>"Git gud" answer is delivered in response
>IT'S NOT THAT I THINK IT'S HARD
>I JUST THINK IT'S TEDIOUS
Every fucking time. It's not tedious if you're any good at the fucking game.
>>321686301
Exactly this. It is always "tedious, not hard" just so they can save face.
Or "the movesets are bullshit"
>>321686301
Actually it is tedious if you're good at the game.
Tedious means it takes long to get through an area because you need to kill every fucking enemy in the giant mobs.
>>321686570
But if you're good at the game, it's easy to cut down all the enemies quickly.
>>321686570
Good one. Its that bad because im good!
Those huge mobs!
>4-5 undead hollows with 50hp
Does soul memory change if you lose souls? Like if you die and lose 100k souls, does it affect soul memory? If not, then that's total fuckign bullshit.
>>321686301
>>321686521
too long, slow, or dull: tiresome or monotonous.
>>321686717
Nope. You can't ever lose soul memory I think.
>>321686821
Only if you're godawful at the game.
>>321686717
Soul memory doesn't really matter at a point where you can easily obtain 100k for future losing
>>321686919
Being able to kill bulks of enemies at once is still dull, why is this so hard for you to get?
FROM relentlessly re-skin castle gimmicks and rarely do anything fun with them.
>>321686709
>>321686712
Game plays like ass compared to Bloodborne and Dark Souls.
Clunky animations, giant hitboxes, and hordes of shitty enemies. I just took a look at the steam store page for SotFS and laughed because every fucking picture on the page showed a giant horde of enemies.
Instead of throwing a billion melee peons at the player, why don't the establish interesting levels that make it challenging for the player to fight one or two enemies?
>>321687158
Yeah, this guy is exactly one of those guys. Im not good at it so its bad game design.
I played this game about a year after it came out. Wasn't connected to the Internet when I played so I never downloaded the patch. The level was a breeze until after that second little cave with the bonfire and there's 2 or 3 witches shooting at you from light years away and the dark spirit whose attacks take over half your health. I skipped it, did some of the DLC, came back and sniped em all with the Possessed Armor Greatbow.
>>321687261
Bloodborne's also pretty guilty of the tons of linked mobs and addon bosses though. Maybe it's not that bad in the main game, but the lower Chalice Dungeons are fucking bullshit.
>>321687505
Those are completely optional and meant to be unfair.
>>321686301
Bloodborne is entirely full of mob encounters. It has more than ever before, with like 30 in the first real area, and the enemies themselves are far more difficult and varied in moveset.
Why doesn't Bloodborne get any bitching for it?
>>321684686
Those aren't tedious at all though. The only one that's tedious is the op one and that's because it's also hard.
I know "hard" is a word we like to pretend never happens in a souls game but it fucking was. Same with the knights on the way to the sentinels. But that was only hard if you ran into all of them like a moron.
I've beaten the game and das1 on level 1 and this whole pretending nothing is ever hard but it's "tedious" is hilarious to me. Some parts are legitimately hard, not "tedious" but hard. Like the fucking reindeer area was a nightmare.
>>321687612
Most of DS2 is completely optional too, what point are you trying to make here?
>>321687640
It's easy to pull a few at a time and all of the starting weapons have wide attacks to hit multiple enemies at once.
>>321687747
Okay, so you're just fucking around now. Thanks for telling me.
>>321687889
As are they easy to pull in DS2
People are just arguing opinions as fact. As usual.
>>321686301
The game is tedious. You should be able to skip to the credits. Hope they put a little effort into the next one.
>>321687640
Also, bloodborne's walls hit detection is way worse than DaS2 hitboxes to the point that the character gets stuck frequently.
>>321686284
>most of the shitposting about DS2 is the DS1 fanboys scraping the barrel for things to talk shit about.
Of course they're scraping the bottom of the barrel, they're playing Dark Souls 2
>>321687640
Most of those enemies are on patrols, and the game gives you crowd control weapons in case you do aggro most of them.
>>321687640
>LE BEE TEEM MAYMAY.
No but seriously. People went into DaS2 wanting to shit on it. And DaS2 made special efforts to shut down all the cheese tactics people had been abusing previously, which REALLY upset some folks.
>Backstabs and circlestrafes invalidated most of DaS1
>DaS2 introduces enemies with specialized backstab stopping behaviors and strong rotation and attack tracking
>Shields are almost always 100% Phys Reduction in DaS1
>In DaS2 you're lucky to get an 80% reduction before the first boss
>Fast-Rolling is the best defensive option in DaS1 because of how safe it is and how little investment it takes
>DaS2 introduces the idea of tying dodge efficacy to a stat in order to balance it out against other options
>>321688102
Well they're easier in BB because you have a gun and pebbles are pretty easy to find.
>>321687640
Sony exclusive.
But I get a kick out of the people who defend Bloodborne but shit on Dark Souls 2 tracking and mobs and multiple bosses. It's just as guilty in a lot of these "sins". You can't like the series as a whole, you have to either like sony exclusives or multiplats because they are in no way a fucking like in so many ways.
Which is what makes the games great to me anyway.
>>321688025
I'm a different anon but DS2 has like 7 mandatory areas.
Shaded woods
Castle Drangleic
Amana
Crypt
Aldias Keep (that has like 6 enemies half of who don't even respawn)
Dragon aerie (not counting shrine because you can just zip past all of it and fight 0 enemies, dragon aerie itself has 4 mandatory enemies to fight)
Memory of Jeigh
>>321674429
It was patched
a lot of minor things got patched in both DaS1 and 2 that made areas a lot easier
>>321688164
Good job proving him right.
>>321688175
>Defending the i-frame stat
>>321687640
That's because the game was designed around it.
You have lots of mobs of guys, sure, but you're super fast, they tend to be more cautious and you can chop them down quite fast.
With Dark Souls 2, a fair bit of the mobbing enemies are fast, tanky, and aggressive.
>>321688175
>Backstabs and circlestrafes invalidated most of DaS1
>DaS2 introduces enemies with specialized backstab stopping behaviors and strong rotation and attack tracking
>Bloodborne entirely denies backstabs unless you're using a very fast weapon or sneak up on enemies
>Shields are almost always 100% Phys Reduction in DaS1
>In DaS2 you're lucky to get an 80% reduction before the first boss
>You get a 50% reduction shield with 10 stability in Bloodborne and that's it, you can't even parry with it
>Fast-Rolling is the best defensive option in DaS1 because of how safe it is and how little investment it takes
>DaS2 introduces the idea of tying dodge efficacy to a stat in order to balance it out against other options
>Bloodborne increases the instability multiplier to 200% which makes glancing blows turn into 80% hits or worse
Bloodborne did all these things in a much more punishing manner.
>>321688381
> Tfw I can't connect my console to the internet.
> Tfw Every area I played was at it's hardest.
> The Giant in Anor Londo doesn't even sell Twinkling Titanite, holy fuck.
>>321687746
Manus is hard. Fighting groups consists of circling them, and dinking one of them every now and then if they get out of position for five minutes. Or doing one spin attack with a halberd, killing all of them instantly, and then having to switch to one of your 7 other halberds because the durability system is broken.
It's tedious.
>>321688485
>fair bit of the mobbing enemies are fast, tanky, and aggressive.
Go ahead and list them then tough guyYou are actually going to say that hollow soldiers that die in 1/2 swings are actually a tough enemy because you didn't 1 hit them with your fist or something.
>>321688553
This guy knows what's up. Bloodborne did it way better.
>>321688175
>People went into DaS2 wanting to shit on it.
I would say it was actually the opposite, people expected DaS2 to be a masterpiece and got disappointed by its shortcomings (not that the whole second half of DaS wasn't a rushed mess). Also downgrades and the Faraam set looks like shit ingame
>>321688485
>a fair bit of the mobbing enemies are fast, tanky, and aggressive.
They're rarely tanky if you're properly geared for the occasion and BB puts any sort of speedy or aggressive behavior found in previous Souls games to shame.
>>321684686
In just about every one of those areas, you are given chokepoints or methods to give you some control over the engagement.
Funnel the swordsmen through the door to the area. Pull the archdrakes behind cover and then kill them. Black Gulch has enemies only pop up if you get too close to the tar pits, so its only problem is its tedious unless you book it. Even the wharf gives you chokepoints and places to bait enemies to come to you in a controlled manner without throwing knives or a bow.
If anything, most of the problems people have with Dark Souls 2 are more prevalent in Bloodborne, but I guess people turn a blind eye to that because youre rewarded for not pulling and retreating to the advantage which is exactly what youre supposed to do in DaS2. Who the fuck in their right mind would willingly walking into a room to get gangraped by a group of enemies instead of walk in, bait them to follow you to the only exit, and then pick them off slowly as theyre stuck in the door frame? If you do the former, you're a bad player and YOU are at fault, not the designer.
>>321688824
We can all agree on points like the downgrade. But people in here are mistaking them finding areas hard for bad game design. Plenty of other players breezed through them.
Also for all mob groups and bosses they complain about in 2 there is an alternative in 1 such as capra and dogs, 4 kings, mobs of hollows etc
>>321688752
Swordsman shits and those Knights with katanas in the lava area.
>>321689073
I hate those knights but they can easily be pulled and fought 1 at a time.
>>321688824
>people expected DaS2 to be a masterpiece and got disappointed by its shortcomings
That's the console fanbase. PCfats had more than a month to prejudge and make up their mind. The console players expecting an oeuvre were silly nostalgia babies who forgot how flawed DaS1 was. They expected DaS2 to surpass a fictional nostalgia fantasy version of DaS1. Not to mention how the PtDE release brought in shitloads of new fans who had been lectured by various e-celebs and others on why DaS is such a great game. They were told that they should like it and why to like it. But those reasons and facts don't always align with the developers intentions. Which is why half the fanbase get mad about PvP stuff as if that's the only important facet of the game, and the other half massively overvalue things like "shortcuts".
>>321689073
>Swordsman shits
Die in 2 hits with any decently upgraded weapon, die to 1 strong attack counterattack with a rapier.
>Alonne knights
Literally scripted to come at you 1 at a time with 10 or more seconds between each knight, if you bitch about Iron Keep ganking you then maybe you should consider not ignoring every enemy then bitching about how that backfiredThey also die in 1-2 hits with any high damage weapon and in 3 to a fucking longsword.
>from removes the absurd tracking and aggro distance from shrine of amana
>gives it to iron keep
>>321689073
>>321689235
Also, use a fucking mace, you know, the type of damage intended against armored enemies
It's nice to have a damage variety instead of only serrated or not
>>321688175
That pretty much sums up Dark Souls 2. A bunch of wonky band-aid fixes they half-commit to because they won't dare to actually change up the base game to the extent Dark Souls 1 did over Demon's Souls, or Bloodborne does over either. It would have been great if they spent their time creating a great experience instead of just trying to make the best tweaked version of Dark Souls 1 they could.
>>321688175
>tying dodge efficacy to a stat in order to balance it out against other options
>implying it still isn't the obviously superior option and just forces you to waste souls and levels on an otherwise worthless stat
>>321689437
>knows nothing about damage variety in Bloodborne
>bolt, fire, arcane, blood, serrated, righteous, thrust, blunt
I don't get why you had to lie.
>>321688025
Actually let me get the stats for it
You have to beat 19 bosses in Dark Souls 2 with most being mini bosses. You have to beat 9 in Bloodborne with no mini bosses.
Which makes me wonder.
There are 35 bosses in Bloodborne with the DLC. There are 41 bosses in Dark Souls 2 with the dlc. 32 in the base game and 30 in the base for BB.
Apparently only having to fight less than a third of the bosses in the game is better designed than having to fight over half?
You'd think in a game full of bosses you'd complaining at how much optional ones there is as opposed to the primaries but what do I know...
>>321680584
I don't count this guy as a boss at all. he's as much of a boss as the drake in DaS1.
>>321689574
Character builds matter. If you don't like stats governing your abilities, don't play RPGs. Whining about ADP is like whining that you need STR to use a big hammer.
>>321689363
They need to get rid of turntable tracking for me to give a shit.
You can never get the Amana Priestess' clothes, how do you deal with that feel?
>>321689065
Not to mention the same issues are prevelant in Bloodborne AND Demons Souls. Do people not remember Tower Knight, Phalanx, or Storm King? People will argue that those are easy or well designed bosses or have a trick to them but so are Ruin Sentinels, Double Dragonriders, and Ivory King. The ONLY problem with Dragonriders is that you fight one at the beginning of the game and it feels kind of like it was cheaply thrown in there just for the sake of needing a boss and Ruin Sentinels force you to take some fall damage in the fight.
Dark Souls 2 is nowhere near my favorite Souls game but if people are gonna shit on it they could at least shit on something that actually makes sense, like the fucking writing/lore being the worst the series has seen.
>>321688553
So basically we should praise BB for taking things a step farther than what Dark Souls 2 did that people hated... is what you're saying?
I think the point went over your head.
>>321689287
PCfats also didn't play DeS so DaS2 was only their second experience in the Souls world. I think most people that played DeS first understand best why DaS2 is a Soul-less and un fun game.
>>321688752
I understand that you DaS2 Downies like to stick with the same shit over and over, with your gurgled cries of "git gud" and bringing up the same early game encounters.
The forest of fallen giants is nothing compared to the fucking bullshit of Heide's post-dragonrider where all the small guys are hyperaggro'd, and are just so fucking badly animated that they lunge at you without even having a wind up animation. But this is still early game so you're still going to be a downy about it. How about all of the manikins they literally throw at you in Earthen Peak? Or the nothin personnel samurai who run faster than Sonic on fucking steroids? How about some of the DLC areas? Shulva, where you have a bunch of big dudes with maces everywhere. Brume Tower, where it crams you into a tiny fucking room with 3 ashen hollows, an archer, and a giant guy spurting lava and swinging a mace all over. And don't forget the classic areas before Blue Smelter and Clone Cats
Go ahead and double down syndrome on this fucking post. I fucking dare you to rebuke it without your sacred "git gud huhuhuh im a fuckin downie" meme
>>321689926
The dodging is way better than having a shitty i-frame stat.
>>321689654
>You have to beat 19 bosses in Dark Souls 2
What? You have to beat
1) Last Giant
2) Twin Dragonrider
3) Looking Glass Knight
4) Demon of Song
5) Velstud
6) Guardian Dragon
7) Watcher/Defender
8) Nadalia
Don't really think I missed any, the 4 great souls are 100% optional because the shrine of winter SM check is a thing
>>321689287
DS2 was bad. No fire skipping and infinite healing removed all the suspense. The tracking and parry revamp removed all the reward in learning enemies. No reason to reroll(respecs) and no pvp removed all its replayability. And because of the lighting rework everything looks like lost izalith with the washed out grey stone textures.
It was bad, just plain bad.
>>321689692
You don't have to use big hammers though, just like you don't need lots of stamina or HP unless you want to wear heavy armour or have lots of health. At some point you'll have no choice but to roll through an attack instead of tanking with a shield, so you have no choice but to raise ADP unless you're really really good at dodging.
>>321689638
Not him but against common mobs those damages mean basically nothing since you can R1 spam and regain on trades or ranged parry 90% of the game with no risk anyway. It only really matter at all on bosses.
>>321689437
>>321689638
Serrated and righteous aren't even damage types, they're bonus modifiers, like Divine / Occult, except they're actually fucking good and relevant throughout the game.
>>321689654
just jumping into this conversation; i don't think either one of those things intrinsically makes a game "better designed" or not
you have a lot of optional bosses or you don't.
>>321690068
BTFO
>>321690000
>and are just so fucking badly animated that they lunge at you without even having a wind up animation
Well glad we agree that you are literally blind, before doing that attack they freeze up and stand still for 2-3 seconds before lunging
If you were actually paying attention to the game and not trying to look for shit to dislike you would have noticed it.
>>321690102
>At some point you'll have no choice but to roll through an attack instead of tanking with a shield
No. That's simply not true. If you want the option to roll THROUGH stuff, you need to invest points. You don't need ADP to physically engage in the act of rolling and that's plenty enough to use as a spacing tool to avoid harm.
So how far into SotFS do you have to wait to get the Craftsman's Hammer, the most OP PVE weapon around.
>>321690110
>against common mobs those damages mean basically nothing
yeah ok try to R1 spam a brainsucker without a fire weapon and see how that goes.
>>321690068
I'm excluding the Shrine of Winter because I've never done it. But either way, you either get more content or you get less bosses than Bloodborne which is what the anon was complaining about when he wanted to skip a bunch of bosses.
>>321690068
Reasonably getting 1 million soul memory on killing trash mobs only is so tedious and not worth the effort that it kind of hurts your argument even if you are technically right.
Then again youll just say to add another boss to that list to farm anyway, like the Rotten which all speedrunners do farm to skip the majority of the game.
>>321690102
SL1 runs are a thing in DS2 too, you don't NEED ADP to do shit, shields are actually effective all the way to the endgame, you just need to pair them with actually moving and not just hiding behind it all the time.
>>321690121
My mistake, but even then, a big amount of enemies are vulnerable to serrated, and very few to righteous, serrated weapons almost invalidate the existence of other choices.
>>321690162
True. But as a guy who bought a game, I think I'd rather have more mandatory bosses thrown at me than not. Though I'm the type of person who explores everything so it doesn't matter either way
>>321690392
Just another reason Dark Souls 2 is tedious trash. You have to farm 1 million souls. What the fuck were they thinking?
>>321690392
If you wanted to be really autistic about it then you should just include Dragonrider and Chariot, then say "well go PvP"
The means of skipping bosses is irrelevant, the point is that they are by the definition optional, you do not have to kill them to beat the game.
Also any% just glitches through the world and nobody runs it anymore because its the stupidest thing
>>321673910
Fuck this place really.The fucking water is so anoying,
>>321675045
>Game has something that is actually, somewhat reasonably hard
>Epin hardcore Souls players complain about this
>Claim being challenged is a huge problem and makes the game inferior to DS1
Anyway, the way projectiles and enemy awareness work in Souls in general is hilariously ass.
>>321690495
>You have to
You don't have to
>>321673910
>Not having the Heavy Crossbow
>>321690419
I've never even upgraded adp on multiple characters on multiple playthroughs.
I've never even had an issue with it besides the odd slow reflexes and holy fuck is the Pursuer annoying on sl1.
>>321690613
Why do I need a bunch of souls to go around a pile of rubble?
>>321689926
No, I just don't get the reasoning behind the DaS2 whining.
The real problem with DaS2 is that it didn't live up to our hype, or the pre-release footage.
>>321690419
Offhand ladle / simpleton's ring are gigantic viability boosts for SL1 in DaS2. And even with them, you can't avoid shit like axe 1hr1s.
>>321690458
That's why righteous weapons are already super strong or capable of serrated too, like threaded cane and church pick.
>>321690248
>Well glad we agree that you are literally blind, before doing that attack they freeze up and stand still for 2-3 seconds before lunging
Which is still fucking horrible, because it honestly looks like the ai is having a stroke rather than displaying the animation that indicates that it's going to jump and lunge at you.
>If you were actually paying attention to the game and not trying to look for shit to dislike you would have noticed it.
Guess what, fucker? When Dark Souls 2 initially came out, I loved the fucking shit out of it and dismissed all of the criticism. So when I went to play through again, I was going at it like something I'd enjoy. Not the fucking shit heap pile of shit I got.
>>321690260
>You don't need ADP to physically engage in the act of rolling and that's plenty enough to use as a spacing tool to avoid harm.
But that's also wrong. One major reason why "shockwaves" is a common criticism is based on how ADP works. Your hitbox stays at the same place when you initially roll, so you get fucking hit regardless. ADP makes it so that hitbox doesn't detect damage for a frame or two
>>321690268
I was generalizing but okay, how about I parry him instead because if you cant R1 spam it, you can parry it from a safe range.
Bloodborne is my favorite Souls game so far but even I can agree that its combat is very simplified relative to the other games in the series. A majority of the enemies in the game that cannot be killed with R1 spam will absolutely die to a SAFE, RANGED PARRY and visceral attack OR a charge attack from one of the cheesier weapons in the game (Ludwigs, Hunters Axe, Rifle Spear, etc) The damage modifiers in BB only matter on bosses and MAYBE Kin when it comes to thrust damage but thats really the extent of it.
>>321683330
DS2 would have been fine if enemies did not animation cancel, skip frames to attack, or 360noscope track you during an attack.
It would have been manageable and felt like a challenge to fight three or five enemies at a time.
Instead they purposely let the AI cheat now and made the animations less clear and more spontaneous to prevent parrying of even trash mobs.
>>321690896
>But that's also wrong.
Not even a little.
>One major reason why "shockwaves" is a common criticism is based on how ADP works. Your hitbox stays at the same place when you initially roll, so you get fucking hit regardless.
So space yourself better. If doing it one way is resulting in getting hit, you should find a different way that results in NOT getting hit.
Literally: Git Gud.
>>321687640
Giant swarms of mobs are among the least challenging of all enemies in Bloodborne including the two bosses that work with that concept. As the Good Hunter your melee capacities and ranged weaponry easily allow you to tackle whole groups. Guns and pebbles also allow you to pick single enemies away from the group. The Yahargul villagers only get a bad rap because they're constantly respawned by bell maidens.
The most challenging battles in the game are literally versus enemy hunters which you encounter in the range of 1 to 3 throughout who have movesets similar to your own. That and the two shark giants which most admit is in fact bullshit if you try to take the fight seriously and not use a shaman bone blade.
They're not challenging because of simply attacking in a group, but because they are just as deadly to you as you are to them. Still, the most notable hunter adversary in the game that isn't a boss is a single encounter set in a large open space with no interference. Looking at you, Bloody Crow of Cainhurst.
>>321690896
>Which is still fucking horrible, because it honestly looks like the ai is having a stroke rather than displaying the animation that indicates that it's going to jump and lunge at you.
They are doing the anime powerup thing, refer to Maria. I'm sure you are a totally reasonable human being tough since you just bitches about a move that has 3 seconds of obvious animation not having any warning, and not a raging autist upset about being called out on being blind
>>321690663
I don't know how it is in SotFS, but in vanilla the Heavy Crossbow doesn't have enough range to get the drop of most of the Priestesses. My first time going through Amana with a dedicated Bow build was amazing, HBB was dropping them before they even got a shot off.
>>321690663
Dude no one wants to be pressured into playing in a certain way.Check the people in the thread,Some people in the tread (not me I'm a pyro casual) want to go full melee.I like DS2 because I can play the way I want to play.that shrine is exceptionally shit.
>>321690102
>no choice but to raise ADP
Who the fuck actually raises this stat
It's like resistance in dark souls, fucking worthless. Hope they remove it in the next game.
>>321690967
>Instead they purposely let the AI cheat now and made the animations less clear and more spontaneous to prevent parrying of even trash mobs.
Yes, fucking exactly
Too bad the only video that shows off how bad the animation is is the one video of the falconer speed waddling toward you while his torso flops about
>>321691067
>git gud downie memer
here's a pity (you)
>>321690876
Because the writing and world building in Dark Souls 2 is terrible. Which is something nobody here is refuting. This is strictly a discussion on how the gameplay is nowhere near as bad as people say it is.Please find a way to equate that bad world design in the form of a pile of rubble to being a bad element of gameplay because this shit is actually hilarious and I love it.
>>321689437
BB has Regular/Pierce/Strike/Blood for physical and Bolt/Fire/Arcane for elemental, Serrated and Righteous are just modifiers similar to Holy and Occult in DaS1.
>>321673910
There are people who whine about this level without having played through the unpatched version.
Fucking hilarious.
>Good level design
>>321691090
When the only tell for an attack makes it look like the game fucking broke and the enemy reverts to idle animation, that's fucking horrible design and you fucking know it
>>321691162
Counters to amana
1) A shield with high magic resist
2) Rolling (even fatrolling with base ADP will dodge those)
3) Any form of ranged attack
You have to be some kind of fucking downie who runs around without a shield, without rolling and without a weapon to actually have issues with shrine of amana. Really the ONLY people who have even the slightest right to bitch are people powerstancing UGSes and even then you are still 4 times as fast as the preists with their casting
>>321688887
Agreed, and I specifically like DS2 because the game was designed around giving you reason to set up situations like that.
>>321691162
>Ring with 50% chance to deflect spells
>Rings with heavy magic damage reductions
>Small Blue Burrs
>Spell Parry Shields
>Magic Barrier and Great Magic Barrier
>Magic infused shields
>Rolling
>Ranged options like Crossbows/Bows/Greatbows/Magic
I'm not seeing the issue. Pick one or more of the above mitigation options and move the fuck on
>>321691435
>idle animation
No their idle animation has them moving around or sitting down, of course you would notice this if you actually tried to learn the game instead of looking for things to nitpick about?
What are you even trying to do anon, you were flat out wrong, that attack is telegraphed harder than fucking demon of song/covetus, you were wrong on the internet, drop the subject like your mother dropped you as a child before you dig that hole any deeper.
>>321691083
>Guns and pebbles also allow you to pick single enemies away from the group.
How is this different from throwing knives, arrows, and soul arrows in DaS2 though? You can do the same thing.
>Yahargul villagers
But that's the point. You're supposed to cut off the bell maidens.
>enemy hunters
Agreed
>shark giants
Hell no, you can chain backstab and parry those bitches with extreme ease
>they are just as deadly to you as you are to them.
That's bullshit, they have maxed stats and defense and take fuckall from anything
>>321691167
Seriously man
>>321689654
How many optional bosses there are isn't really an issue in these games since they reward exploration and challenging yourself. They all do a good job of slapping something worthwhile on or behind optional bosses. Having more of them be optional is usually a big plus for speedrunners or people who want to run through the game a second/third time, and also allows new players to take different paths through the game and then share stories immediately after release, but if the game is made right people will still want to do the optional fights.
I don't even really consider chalice dungeons part of this though. They're literal generated filler content for people who are into that sort of thing, and the handful of unique things in them is because without anything interesting at all there'd be literally zero reason to do them. I'd much rather have had 1 extra main game area than the entire chalice system, and this is coming from someone who just beat the Queen for the first time an hour ago.
>>321691162
Just buy throwing knives to pull enemies. Even if you dont want to lame people at range, any ranged weapon is a useful tool to have for the purposes of pulling enemies to an advantageous position. That's one of the points of the entire series: Using what you have to turn a disadvantage into an advantage. If you want to never use any ranged option at all, you can run in, get aggro, and run away to cover with the melee enemies chasing you at Amana. Granted its not super easy, but its not impossible or as hard as people make it out to be. It's just that relative to the game leading up to that point its never something you were forced to do as much.
>>321691486
Don't forget, the game gives you a ring that grants 11% damage negation from magic right before Amana.
>>321688245
>BB is better because it's the same, but conveniently easier
Cool
>>321691426
>never ran around the Valley of Defilement in DeS
get a load of this kansas city faggot
>>321691091
There are bolts with increased range
>>321691162
Well that's your fault, the game is still doable full melee but if you don't want to adapt your strategies for when the game actually decides to do something different, that is up to you. STR, DEX, INT, and FAI all have methods to deal with ranged mobs.
>>321677280
Blighttown suffered from huge fps problems, but other than it was good.
I liked the Gutter as well, having to actually use the torch was a nice novelty
>>321687640
because the game mechanics adhere to mobs far better than souls
it's why the shadows of yharnim is a decent fight whereas shit like double dragonriders is dumb
>If I go in alone I can kill them in 7-9 hits each but they'll gang up on me and I die
>If I summon help they won't gang up on me but they each take way more hits to kill and I die
Fuck.
>>321688448
>i-frame stat is bad
Why?
This is why I love Souls. All the games are the same core, but so different in their design that everyone fucking hates each other when discussing which ones are better. It's always so beautiful to see.
[spoilers]I cant be the only one that considers all the games to be equal in positives and negatives and neither entirely better or worse than each other right? I can see how some are better or worse in some aspects but not as entire games.
>>321691260
Ruined my gameplay experience because I didn't want to tediously grind 1 million souls.
>>321677280
Only shitters hate these areas.
>>321691948
It's worthless.
>>321691948
>i-frame stat is good
Why?
>>321692004
You don't have to, just beat NG+ nadalia with my 200k SM twink
>>321692004
Then why didn't you collect the 4 great souls?
OMG why does DaS2 not have Steam cloud support?
I just bought the season pass instead of the SoTFS update because I ldidn't want to start over only to find my fucking saves have gone because it doesn't use Steam cloud...
JUST
FUCK
MY
SAVES
UP
FAMILY
>>321691946
Solve it the same way you solve any humanoid-sized problem in Dark Souls 2. Greathammer 2H R2. They start standing up, pancake them again until death. You can even do it to the Reindeer in the 3rd DLC.
>>321692147
>because it doesn't use Steam cloud
>Why are my saves not in the steam could if I don't use the steam could
A mystery for the ages indeed.
>>321692147
>he bought the DLC instead of buying SotFS
Are you fucking retarded?
>>321692109
>>321692071
How can it be worthless when it has a tangible, visible effect on gameplay and can make a difference in builds?
>>321692140
>>321692124
I only want to fight the mandatory bosses.
>>321692071
It's worth it if you exclusively roll since it DOES help during a very small amount of attacks, but its not necessary at all and from a design standpoint its terrible to let you have an entire stat govern that shit. You get so many souls and levels in DaS2 anyway that levelling up to 95 AGL isnt even much of an issue if you do it for preference unless youre minmaxing for a specific type of build.
>>321692147
I dunno, shits annoying as fuck having to manually trade the files over to other computers.
>>321692289
What are you even failing to say now?
>>321687640
Because Bloodborne actually gives you the right tools for mob control right at the start of the game.
>Hunter Axe becomes a polearm
>Hunter Saw gains range in trade for speed
>Threaded cane becomes a whip with a lot of horizontal coverage
>Blunderbuss staggers whole groups
>Molotovs have good splash range
Hell, even more late game weapons like Piercing Rifle and Beast Cutter are made with CC in mind.
>>321692275
Did you even read my post?
Normal saves don't work with SoTLS and I didn't want to start over. But Steam didn't back my saves up and now I am fucked.
>>321692276
When we say it's worthless we mean that it's a horrible stat that tried to deal with a problem in the previous game but failed miserably. Go look at the post about Bloodborne's dodge mechanic, and you'll see how to properly fix a problem without making a dumb stat.
>>321692447
>Bastard Sword
>halberd
>first enemy in the first are drops throwing knives
Keep at it anon, I'm sure you'll convince yourself at some point because you sure as shit ain't convincing anyone else.
>>321692351
That's the problem, it isn't necessary at all unless you're a complete shitter.
>>321692276
It doesn't make a difference. Learn to roll.
It was poorly implemented. There is no reason to level it if you're capping out your level for PvP or just having fun on PvE.
>>321691946
Parry and riposte the Archer, or just focus on him first thing. Then kill the katanna shitter, then Havel. Youre never on a time limit for this fight so you can kite the two shitheads while you go in and get a hit or two on the archer using the area underneath.
>Friend complains about mob encounters in the Souls series
>"What do you mean fighting without look on"
>>321692589
I'm doing a lvl 4 build in Bloodborne and I have access to these crowd controls weapons.
I'm doing a lvl 1 build in DaS2 and I don't have access to these weapons.
>>321692481
>Normal saves don't work with SoTLS and I didn't want to start over.
You're dumb and deserved what you got. Souls game are EXTREMELY replayable.
>>321692589
Halberd is pretty awful for groups in DaS2 man. The moment you encounter royal swordsman the weapon turns useless.
The sweet spot is awful for aggressive enemies and you can't just spin2win.
It's nothing like the Hunter Axe.
The best anti-group thing you get in DaS2 is Soul Greatsword and it's not acquired until the game is practically over.
>>321692481
>started over and reached level 100 in one day via rotten farming
really isn't that hard.
also, the soul memory mechanic literally encourages you to cheat items instead of spending souls to acquire them.
>>321692831
Ring of Strength and Ring of Dexterity, offhand Work Hook or Vessel Shield.
>>321692602
Personally I dont need, but I like having it anyway because I never level up my HP or Vit anyway and might as well level something up that can make some difference. Most i go is 12 vig 9 vit because flynns and i rarely get hit anyway from rolling since ive clocked so many fucking hours in this game, but i only even start to put anything into ADP after I hit 50/50 and dont want to dump stuff into Stamina since i like limiting myself to the softcap.
>>321692671
I can deal with the archer, but I've no idea how to separate katana guy and havel long enough to get in a hit or two without the other fucking my shit up. Those two stick to each other like glue.
>>321690606
There's nothing hard about ranging them with bows. It's just time consuming and tedious.
You fucking retarded faggot.
In an alternate world Dark Souls 2 wasn't fucked up by the publisher, and they had a whole extra year to finish it.
>>321687343
>I-it's not bad game design, you're just bad!
Yeah, this guy is exactly one of those guys.
>>321692589
It really helps that BB weapons have better overall movesets.
>>321692882
>and you can't just spin2win.
Says you, the best anti mob in DS2 are all the UGSes with a horizontal swing, or just having a brain and kiting enemies.
Mobs that gank in DS2 are not stronger than they were in DS1 or BB, they die in a few hits to any weapon that has at least some upgrades on it.
>>321686301
>ds2 launch
>choose explorer
>only get a dagger
>weapon breaks before the first hiede knight
>get another off one of the monsters
>both daggers break before the second bon fire
>LOL GET GOOD
it was tedious as fuck.
>>321692831
Deprived can use the dagger and club and everybody has the ability to kite enemies into an advantage or to their leash point. Sure its harder but its a SL1 is supposed to be a self imposed challenge to begin with. You also have access to throwing knives to individually pull enemies.
>>321693116
In an alternate world console were good enough to handle the lighting so it wasn't a dull grey everywhere.
>>321692998
Yeah sure let me just get through these hordes of enemies first, so I can obtain those items.
As opposed to Bloodborne where I can get them from the start.
