What went wrong?
>>321608862
Not much besides not having Sub space emissary 2.0
It's a pretty decent casual game
No ledge hogging
Ledge snapping
Recoveries
Frame Data
Airdodge system
Hitstun
Movement Options
Just off the top of my head.
3DS version
No hazardless version of stages instead of FD
Angry birds minigame
Single player lacks content
Overemphasis on adding characters to the roster, leaving all other aspects underdeveloped.
>>321609012
>No ledge hogging
im fine with this
>Ledge snapping
>Recoveries
this is the real culprit
both were aggressively and unnecessarily buffed from brawl
Not enough single player modes since I felt the game was focused more on improving the multiplayer from brawl along with no smash run on the Wii U version
This thread again.
Nothing, its a whole lot more fun that Melee.
>>321610302
go away sakurai
>free recovery on 90% of characters
>no edgehog
>no regrabs
>no FUCKING DASH DANCING
these are my main issues with it, not counting the lack of movement options and tech
Frame data, shitty ledge mechanics, fucking insane recoveries and removal of any and all advanced techniques to name a few mistakes.
It's still afungame, but if I wanna compete, I'll play Project M or Melee.
>>321608862
>52 characters
>half are marth
>they all have a counter down special
Gameplay better than Brawl, but content far lacking.
Brawl really felt like a lot of effort went into it, and Smash 4 doesn't feel that way.
The music being either shitty remixes or butchered from Brawl/it's source by being forced into a retarded 2 minute timeline guide.
Stages are lackluster.
Smash Tour being a fucking piece of shit
The 3DS version existing.
>>321608862
nothing
like 80% of the features are offline only, and ignored by the competitive scene, dooming them to obscurity.
>>321611025
>no FUCKING DASH DANCING
Yes there is.
>not counting the lack of movement options and tech
Play with customs, glider badge on every character makes up for the lack of ground to air momentum. Smooth lander removes lag and opens up more combos and follow-ups. I also like the low-jump badge as it makes your short hops lower, faster and allows you to fast fall your aerial faster as well. Those three together improve general mobility and combos for every single character and matches are faster and don't rely so heavily on defensive baiting.
>>321608862
maybe that banjo kazooie, snake and bomberman aren´t there.
sakurai
>>321611429
>competitive scene
>smash 4
>competitive scene
ayy lmao
>>321611128
Play with certain equipment. It fixes so many problems the game has with frame data and mobility.
>But it wasn't balanced with that in mind!
Melee wasn't balanced with wavedashing in mind either and is a lot more imbalanced in the first place.
>DLC characters don't have custom moves
The characters I had to fucking pay for have less features than the ones that come with the game?
Not enough Little Mac.
>>321608862
3DS version sucking up time and resources
Custom move loadouts being really clunky to set up
>>321611438
it's not the same
Sheik.
>>321608862
>rehashed menus from Brawl
>rehashed music from Brawl
>less stages than Brawl
>removed several Brawl characters
>most newcomers were terrible (Shulk? Seriously?)
>nearly every DLC character has been an incredible let down
>6 (SIX!) FE reps
Why isn't smash run on both?
Just give each version it's own map. Still gives incentive to play both versions.
>>321609805
Ledge magnetism isn't as bad but holy shit everyone gets a full-screen recovery now.
>>321611264
This too. I don't even have to dig into the mechanics of the game to say it just sort of feels uninspired compared to the other entries.Brawl had the coin launcher minigame which is better than anything in smash 4.
>>321611025
>>no edgehog
>this being bad
Fuck off. edgehogging is for faggots
>people liked edgehogging
Just an easy, boring way out rather than keeping the pressure on so both players have fun.
Real problem is the huge ledge magnet. Just looking at fox, ganondorf and villager snap to the far away ledge repulses me to no end.
I love Sm4sh to be honest. It's faster than brawl, yet slower than Melee, and a few characters feel like they'd fit in with project M. I enjoy defensive baiting, it builds suspense. I also like that there are insane recoveries, so it is more fun to take a "risk" (note quotes) and try and get the opponent out from off of the edge. The 3DS version has better single player imo, because Smash Run and the best Classic Mode in any Smash game ever. Multiplayer Smash run give my friends and I incentive to get together and actually play instead of doing it online, and it gets us out of the house besides work. I really love the online play that is so much better than Brawl, and having Smash on the go allows me to play against friends who also have their 3DS on them. I also like the ability to customize your character with equipment instead of the god awful sticker system that was in Brawl. I don't really like how fast Melee is and I enjoy the slower paced gameplay of 4, but it's still more fun than Brawl, and regular patches keep things fresh and interesting with constant character changes, and it's much more balanced than just spamming MetaKnizzle the douchebag in Brawl.
>>321609012
>No ledge hogging
This is nothing but an improvement given how shitty some of the recoveries are and how easy it is for certain characters to camp.
>Ledge snapping
See above, but to a lesser extent
>Recoveries
Improved overall though some characters need more option *coughIkecough*
>Frame Data
Faster than brawl, not as autistically broken as Melee.
>Airdodge system
Agreed
>Hitstun
Not sure what the problem is here
>Movement Options
Movement's fine for most of the cast
>>321611605
>all the gender swaps and character alts have 4 costumes each
>with Corrin and Robin colors are locked to gender
>even Alph and Olimar only get 4 each
>yet someone approved 16 different Little Mac skins
I will never not be mad. It's little things like this that when added all up leads to an ultimately disappointing game
Thankfully, almost nothing. I really love this one.
Big improvements from fucking brawl.
>>321611873
He's the only fun character in this shit game, so he deserves the most costumes.
>>321611873
Little Mac really only has 9 costumes, the non-hoodie ones are identical between normal and wireframe, and the hoodies are just colorswapped between the hood and gloves. It doesn't have as much effort put into it as say, Wario.
God, the Smash fanbase, especially the competitive faggots, are fucking cancer.
>>321611794
Is that a joke? Most of the cast can snap to the ledge from pretty far. It's fucking ridiculous. They're teleporting to it and invincible before anyone can punish it. You either have to go out there (and risk getting goomba'd while they panic spam jump) and hit them one or two more times until their free recovery doesnt make it back.
Which WOULD be fine if there wasnt also INFINITE AIRDODGES.
It is a really fun game and I actually like it more than melee. Sue me.
>>321612020
>the non-hoodie ones are identical between normal and wireframe
except for the cel shading
>>321611675
Right, it's better. Vanilla is too slow, you actually have some decent approach options and combos, the game is a lot faster. Obviously Melee is still more technical but this speeds matches up and gives every character more options.
Can't wait until we can just apply these attributes to the vanilla characters when the Wii U gets hacked.
>>321612020
But you already have those alternate models made, it takes just as much effort to palate swap them as it would a Mac but it didn't get done.
>>321611794
>everyone gets a full-screen recovery now
LOL
>>321611927
I feel like brawl was vista and window 7 is smash 4. Smash 4 is a great overall improvement that can actually be changed and tweaked.
Then windows xp is melee. There were still people who clinged to windows xp despite its flaws when windows 7 was out and some computers to this day still use it.
However I like being able to play online without desyncs like with dolphin and having more polygons and facial expressions is good too. Not too much of a tourneyfag so I enjoy smash 4 alot
>>321611794
>full screen recovery
>little mac
>ganondorf
>doc mario
Lol
It's not melee
Inb4 autist gtfo
>>321612092
Yes, but it was even worse in Brawl, which is what I meant--not that it's not bad in smash 4.
Really, the thing is that Smash is feeling more and more like a stamina fighter with almost everyone having such a good recovery that it doesn't even matter.
The edge cannot be grabbed if, and only if, the person on it is invincible.
>>321612092
You don't have any invincibility if you grab the ledge a second time without having touched the stage, and I'm pretty sure that's different from how it's worked in past games.
>>321612165
No it wouldn't. Let's take Olimar/Alph
They have 4 colors each for a total of eight.
Little Mac only has 9 colors of which 7 are simply duplicated between normal and wireframe. Mac only has 1 more unique color than them.
>>321612359
That is different from previous games but we ignore facts around here.
>>321608862
Sakurai.
Ever since Brawl he has actively made the game as shit as it possibly can be without it being borderline unplayable. All to spite a couple thousand people that play it in a way he doesn't want them to.
Manchild cunt. I can't believe people on /v/ of all places actually think he's good for the series. He's done nothing but fuck it all up.
>>321612169
>>321612271
Don't be faggots and lash at slight hyperbole, the vast majority of the cast has really good recoveries.
>>321612310
Considering A landing it's still piss easy to hog the edge and stay invincible.
>>321612382
You still need to palate swap all of those Wireframes though.
>>321612518
>the vast majority of the cast has really good recoveries
This simply isn't true.
>>321612454
So even though you snap to the ledge from stupidly far away, you try to be an ass and plank and it's a lot easier to punish. Anyone on the stage can smack you while you try to recover again.
It's also a lot easier to chase someone off-stage than it was before, I think the better recoveries encourage more off-stage play which there isn't much of at all in Melee unless you're just gimping/hogging as someone tries to grab the ledge.
King K Rool won the Smash Ballot but Nintendo forced Sakurai to put Bayonetta in instead to sell the remaining stock of her game.
Our votes never mattered.
That's democracy for you.
>>321608862
That board game was a waste of space we could have gotten a bigger and better sub space mode that could take place from famous locations from the games characters appear in. We could be storming a Wily castle with DK and Kirby wrecking robot masters.
>>321612618
Except you don't. The wireframe wears the exact same clothes as normal mac. All they did was reuse the same palettes. The only thing they had to do was swap the body model and the sound effects for wireframe.
>>321612728
>King K Rool won the Smash Ballot but Nintendo forced Sakurai to put Bayonetta in instead to sell the remaining stock of her game.
Nice proof you got there.
>>321611025
>>no FUCKING DASH DANCING
I spotted the casual everyone.
>>321612726
Pretty much. Every character has a move that can hit opponents on the ledge. Most can do it from a safe distance too.
>>321612359
I never said anything about that? And fyi, you lose invincibility if you let go and regrab without having taken damage. If you keep taking damage while offstage, you keep getting invincibility. Good try though.
>>321612536
What? I'm saying you can just grab ledge so people cant just go deep to recover, which is the easiest/safest way to recover in the game. You'll only be invincible for a few seconds, so that's the only time it would really be effective as an edgeguard. It would solve the snapping recovery problem and not really change much else.
>>321612092
>Which WOULD be fine if there wasnt also INFINITE AIRDODGES.
Air dodges in Melee were next to useless against any aggressive, fast character. You were going to get punished when you hit the ground 90% of the time. Removing the free-fall after a dodge was a vast improvement, they could just stand to have fewer iframes now.
>>321612871
>What? I'm saying you can just grab ledge so people cant just go deep to recover, which is the easiest/safest way to recover in the game. You'll only be invincible for a few seconds, so that's the only time it would really be effective as an edgeguard. It would solve the snapping recovery problem and not really change much else.
Except that is a huge disadvantage to characters who already have a hard time getting on the ledge, and defeats the purpose of removing edgehogging since it's easy as fuck for many characters to quickly go from ground to ledge over and over again to camp.
>>321612728
>K.Rool fags still at it
>>321608862
>Because of no fault of my own the update data for smash was corrupt
>call Nintendo
>have to send it in
>going to cost me $120
>Have to spend $140 to play smash
>$140 for one game
What the fuck
>>321613297
>Brawl's CD stopped working
>had to send it in to Nintendo
>rage
>stale moves
>down throw is the only viable combo option, and grabs in general are not significant
>kills do not happen unless the opponent is at kill %
>kinda same as above but spiking is meaningless
>kinda same as above but you can recover from fucking anywhere with every character
Put your opinions on tech aside, these are the biggest flaws with the game.
>>321611729
>Not liking Shulk
fag
>>321612871
>And fyi, you lose invincibility if you let go and regrab without having taken damage. If you keep taking damage while offstage, you keep getting invincibility
Why would you keep taking damage while off-stage?
>Good try though
Oh, how cute, you're trying to be condescending. You really had to reach for that last example, and I'm not even wrong.
In what situation would you find yourself being damaged by an opponent who is, presumably, still on the stage while you're trying to recover, a second time? Ness's PK fire? If I'm hitting you while you're off-stage, I'm gimping you, not tickling you so you can get your iframes back upon grabbing the ledge again.
>>321612894
They could still just limit you to one without forcing you into freefall.
>>321612631
All right, I won't say the majority of them are really good, but very long. You still got a lot of recoveries that cover a lot of distance but are predictable and easy to mess up.
>>321613430
>kinda same as above but spiking is meaningless
>Get an elwind spike
>feels good
>they're somehow able to still recover
I was so fucking pissed.
>>321613393
This was an issue with older and launch-model Wiis, the lens had trouble reading the dual-layer DVD Brawl was printed on as they aged. My Wii played Brawl just fine for a few years, then I'd get disc read errors while playing and eventually it would fail to recognize the disc entirely.
>>321608862
Shitty single player modes
Everyone is focused on online so nobody notices how bad that shit really is.
>>321613659
>online
kek
>>321613430
>stale moves
>bad
>wanting to reward spam
>down throw is the only viable combo option, and grabs in general are not significant
This is character dependent. Bowser for example combos off his up throw as does pikachu.
>kills do not happen unless the opponent is at kill %
Not sure how this is a problem.
>kinda same as above but spiking is meaningless
>kinda same as above but you can recover from fucking anywhere with every character
These simply aren't true. Gimping is easier than ever.
>>321613505
>They could still just limit you to one without forcing you into freefall.
True, but I just don't see many situations in which you're going to get more than one off without getting punished anyway. Air dodges were just near useless in Melee at high-level play, same for a lot of rolls. I think removing some iframes so you need to time the dodge better and adding some cooldown frames to the end while still in the air (but not while hitting the ground) would help a lot.
desu Colin from the Advance Wars series should be in the game
so should nintendog
>>321613987
Yeah, as assist trophies.
>>321613793
1. stale moves is a lazy way of "balancing" a poorly balanced game
2. holy shit bowser AND pikachu? not fair in the slightest
3. I just realized you are trolling, but even so holy shit what a joke.
4. objectively wrong
>>321613793
>Gimping is easier than ever.
Everyone seems to ignore the fact that the off-stage game for virtually every character has been vastly improved and you can actually chase opponents out now without getting gimped yourself. Chasing opponents out to gimp is completely viable, and at much lower percents.
>>321613545
Meteor smashes and true spikes are different things. Meteor smashes are not nearly as effective, not sure what Robin's is but I'm fairly certain it's not a true spike and is just a meteor.
>>321613430
>stale moves
isnt that shit in every smash game
>>321611846
>autistically broken as Melee.
Moves work the same, no L-cancelling makes the game slow. To get around that players just Autocancel their moves.
>Hitstun
>can't see the problem
You clearly don't know much.
>>321614094
>stale moves is a lazy way of "balancing" a poorly balanced game
It prevents you from spamming the same moves and encourages you to diversify your attacks.
>objectively wrong
Someone doesn't know the difference between a meteor smash and an actual spike.
>>321613793
Not punishing something =/ rewarding it.
Changing one word in a sentence doesn't effect what he said at all.
You're contradicting yourself with your last two points.
>>321614021
No, as characters. Nintendo picked the wrong Intelligent Systems series to push on us, Fire Emblem's gameplay is simplistic rock-paper-scissors garbage compared to Advance Wars. And Nintendog is iconic to the nintendo
youre just mad because id beat your ass as nintendog
>momentum carries into jumps
>rage removed
>stale move negation no longer applies to knockback
>magic ledge snap range shortened drastically to just actually touching the ledge; smash 4 gives you so many tools to get to the ledge you should have to fucking touch it
this would fix the game so much for me
>>321613430
>stale moves
>a problem
Look here retard. Stalling moves as been in every single smash game, and plays an important core mechanic in the game that is unique to smash.
You can stale moves ON PURPOSE in order to make certain moves easier to combo into.
Some characters (Palutena) even gain combo kill throws if they are stalled enough.
>>321614173
In melee (not usre about 64) it's just damage %. In brawl and smash 4 it's % and knockback. So yes and no.
I laughed so hard at it i lost
>>321608862
/v/ became casual and will defend casualization and downgrades and cut features to a game series, but only if it's Smash.
>>321614094
>1. stale moves is a lazy way of "balancing" a poorly balanced game
Nah, it's just a way to encourage variety.
>2. holy shit bowser AND pikachu? not fair in the slightest
Do you really expect me to list out every single character that combos out of not-downthrow?
>3. I just realized you are trolling, but even so holy shit what a joke.
I'm not trolling. Every attack has a set amount of knockback, why should you be able to kill before then unless you're gimping?
>4. objectively wrong
Ledge trumping makes it easy to force a character back off the stage, most characters have fast moves, many can recover after just about anything that hits. Hell even fucking Little Mac can gimp despite having the shittiest recovery in the game. In Melee and Brawl you rarely see gimping with anyone that doesn't have a super good recovery.
>>321614375
>stale move negation no longer applies to knockback
It's funny how this would actually hurt the game's combos more than anything. It will especially shit on the low tiers.
I use a lot of Dtilt with Ike, because #1 it's a frame 7 super spaced low ground move with lots of shieldstun. #2 pops them up right in front of me and #3 once stalled enough I can use it to combo into a kill move.
Stalling KB is actually useful.
>>321614094
>Stale moves every actually being a problem ever
>Not knowing how to do good follow-ups with anything but down throw
>"I'm just talking outta my ass now"
>I can't do it so it's wrong
>>321614184
Hitstun is fine, could maybe stand to be a little higher. It was too much in 64/Melee. Combos happened because you simply could not respond not because you responded incorrectly. You get hit once, too bad, you're getting comboed and all you can do is attempt to DI.
Smash 4's problem is the excessive lag and lack of air momentum. These are both fixed with an equipment, one removes a significant amount of endlag, like Lcancelling, the other allows better DI in the air, allowing you to travel a greater distance while shorthopping or what have you so more combos are possible. The hitstun is fin when you have the mobility to keep up.
>>321614504
Smash just has so much name recognition it'll sell to its audience no matter what. Just like Madden. If the average vidya consumer cared more about a quality game than fanservice, EA would be out of business.
>>321613987
>>321614357
nintendog is already an assist trophy
>>321614258
Allowing someone to spam a move and still get full damage each time isn't rewarding it? Especially some of the nigh unpunishable moves like Ness fair.
>Changing one word in a sentence doesn't effect what he said at all.
I didn't change any words in any of their sentences.
>You're contradicting yourself with your last two points.
How so?
A great deal of characters have shit recovery. Doc, Mac, Cloud, Roy, Ike, etc. I'm not about to list them all.
Characters that have shit recovery can still gimp in Smash 4 especially thanks to ledge trumping.
>>321614643
The insane nerfing of DI and SDI is what made them nerf hitstun as well. Combos in 4 are more guaranteed than in melee.
>Overly intrusive stage hazards
>An abundance of 1-hit KO items
>"original" music in the game is just a bunch of shitty remixes of the main theme
>No adventure mode
>Smash tour
>3DS' limitations
>killed ICs and ruined smash run
>8 player smash stage selection is limited
>local + online is limited to 2 per console
>no way to see other players ranks
>no co-op stadium online
>online options are extremely limited
>no fucking jump momentum
>2 seconds of end lag on every move
>for glory doesn't have battlefield
>>321614698
nintendog deserves to be more theres like 5 pokemon reps and only one dog rep fucking garbage even pokemon pays homage to dogs for theyre inspiration just look at arcanine
On the one hand I love the 3DS version as it allows me to play smash wherever I want. On the other hand it fucked up the content and polish that the rest had.
They should've focused on one version...maybe make the 3DS version its own thing but with a smaller roster and more content.
>>321612894
Yeah, they have ridiculous frames and are spammable. If someone with a decent recovery air dodges once or twice while you're out there, you'll have to go back to the stage while they free snap to the ledge. And here we are again. Just put a cooldown or limit per jump. Make people think.
Are you worried about match ups or something? There's too many characters in the game for it to be 100% balanced for everyone. Someone with projectiles will camp out your shitty little mac until you approach and get gimped and that's just the way it is.
>>321613025
It's a disadvantage to pretty much anyone that isn't rosalina or pit. People with walljumps maybe. That's the point. If characters with good traits all had good recoveries, they'd all be Sheik. Instead some have bad recoveries and are considered balanced, unlike Sheik.
>>321613452
>Why would you keep taking damage while off-stage?
Read this question to yourself and think about you I'm calling you a fucking retard right now. If you still don't get it, let me reiterate the conversation
>I say people snap to ledge and are invincible before you can punish their recovery unless you edgeguard by going off stage a few times
>You, for some reason, try to enlighten me about how people lose invincibility when grabbing the ledge for a second time without touching the stage
>I tell you that ISN'T how it works
>You say the dumbest shit ever to me, and reveal that you are a for glory ness scrub that truly has no idea how this game works, mechanically or in a competitive sense
I don't know what example you're asking of me that relates to this conversation, but here: throw a luigi off stage at low percent, he can literally recover all day long with his ledge snap from below. The only way to stop this is to either drop bair, which he can just tech, or go out before he reaches below the stage (where he can snap for free) and try something else. Many characters can get gimped trying that and have to stay on ledge. Thats it.
one of the strangest games ive ever played
weird, weird design direction and decision making all around.
the reviews were glowing but these guys play a game for a bit and move on to the next one
in contrast, everyone i know who was remotely invested in the smash series disavowed everything about the game's direction and went back to playing the older games
is this a thing with nintendo? their old output competing with their newer? you can go down to any college gameroom and still see more old N64s and Gamecubes hooked up than Wiis/WiiUs, and there's always someone running and SNES-era game on an emulator
Menus are a gigantic mess, I'm not a meleefag, but holy shit, those were definitely better.
Most of the music is meh, save a few songs like Minor Circuit.
I have a 3ds and the stage there are a complete disappointment.
Can't say anything good or bad about DLC though, I've only bought Ryu and had fun with him so far
Also, recoveries are ridiculous, I've started ti plat with dorf and even he can get a full screen with down b and up b.
>>321615143
With the wii nintendo adopted a "fuck the hardcore players" mentality. It still hasn't died down yet.
>>321608862
It's a great game with some flaws
> There are too many classic and great new stages that are stuck on the 3DS version that deserve to be on the Wii U
> No Ice Climbers
> Smash Tour is pretty lame
> Hiding customs and mii costumes behind RNG bullshit
other than that it's easily the funnest Smash with the best roster
>>321614802
>Overly intrusive stage hazards
>An abundance of 1-hit KO items
>"original" music in the game is just a bunch of shitty remixes of the main theme
>No adventure mode
>Smash tour
>3DS' limitations
I agree with these things. Add that 99% of the music is stripped down to a 2 minute loop, making the soundtrack effectively useless.
>killed ICs and ruined smash run
I never liked IC anyway. Rosalina is more fun imo.
>8 player smash stage selection is limited
Makes sense to me, though a bigger problem is that many stages are way too big for 4 player because they're clearly meant to accommodate 8.
>local + online is limited to 2 per console
I don't think that's too bad. That's standard for most online MP I've seen.
>no way to see other players ranks
Good. Ranks literally don't matter.
>no co-op stadium online
Not sure what this means.
>online options are extremely limited
Agree
>no fucking jump momentum
Some moves retain momentum but not enough.
>2 seconds of end lag on every move
Unless you play Sheik
>for glory doesn't have battlefield
It has Omega Battlefield :^)
>>321614769
Moves have never not scaled down in damage with repeats so that's not what I'm talking about. It can promote diversity but I'd not call removing knockback scaling a way to "reward" spammy play. Might be getting into semantics a bit with that though.
Your second point basically came out like "no, not everyone combos off of down throw, some combo off UP throw too." It's not really convincing when you put it that way.
And your last 2 points made it sound like you acknowledged what he said in that kills don't happen outside of kill %, but then you said gimping is a very real thing.
I get the points you're making but you're not making them in the best way. Or maybe I'm just autistic.
>>321615083
>It's a disadvantage to pretty much anyone that isn't rosalina or pit. People with walljumps maybe. That's the point. If characters with good traits all had good recoveries, they'd all be Sheik. Instead some have bad recoveries and are considered balanced, unlike Sheik.
Yes, so why take the characters with already shit recovery and make their recovery even shittier?
>>321615293
>Good. Ranks literally don't matter.
Ranks would matter if there was a matchmaking system. It's pretty bad to hop online and just play with braindead retards that get JV3ed over nothing in hopes to find one good player among a sea of shit.
>>321615268
3DS luigi garbage reporting in
>fuck you
>we'll keep brinstar
>hey, remember that Corner level from all smash games except for melee?
>mine
>oh? you want it?
>too bad
I don't mean to ride Melee's dick, but the content in Melee and Brawl to an extent really felt inspired. Like they actually gave a shit. Not even counting the actual gameplay.
Melee's OST is fucking perfect, and since there wasn't much as far as representation in that gen when it was released, all of the content they had to produce on their own. All the stages, trophies, music, and shit were mostly made themselves. They had to.
While Brawl started the trend of ripping a lot of shit from other games, it still had a fantastic OST and a lot of new shit.
What's new in Sm4sh? Some songs, but most are ripped from every other Smash. Half the stages are ripped, most of the new stages just use assets from other games, most of the trophies aside from like the Mega Man ones are ripped from other games, most of the characters reuse voice clips and victory music from Brawl. It doesn't feel new. It doesn't feel like its own game. It's a mash-up of shit we've already seen and heard for years. It just feels uninspired and bland.
>>321615083
>I tell you that ISN'T how it works
>Grab ledge
>Let go, don't land on the stage
>Grab again
>No iframes
This is exactly how it works.
>he can literally recover all day long with his ledge snap from below
It's called planking. Every character in every game can let go of the ledge and grab it again from below. This is likely why the iframes were removed from subsequent ledge grabs in the first place, repeatedly planking is against the rules at lots of tournaments. You could, like you said, do it all day and abuse the iframes.
>The only way to stop this is to either drop bair, which he can just tech, or go out before he reaches below the stage (where he can snap for free) and try something else
Sure, if the only move your character has is a Bair. Try a Dsmash or Dtilt as he's about to grab the ledge again. Throw an explosive projectile, or one that clips through the stage. Could's Nspecial shits all over anyone trying to plank or camp the ledge, for example.
>>321615590
What do you expect when people keep bitching asking for another Melee, despite the fact that Melee was broken as hell? People want Melee, Smash provides rehashed content in an attempt to appease meleeriafags
>>321615331
>Your second point basically came out like "no, not everyone combos off of down throw, some combo off UP throw too." It's not really convincing when you put it that way.
He says that down throw is the only viable combo option which isn't true for a number of characters. I'm not gonna list all of those either but I provided some examples.
Kills don't happen outside of kill percent if you don't gimp (or use glitches), which is obvious and as it should be. It's like complaining that you have to drain the health bar in Soul Calibur. Why wouldn't you?
>then you said gimping is a very real thing
And it is. Going back to the Soul Calibur comparison if you're skilled enough you can just get a ring out when the opportunity presents itself.
I don't give a fuck what anyone says. The 3DS has better stages and a more comfy single player experience.
Smash tour. Nobody asked for smash tour. Fuck smash tour.
>>321615818
this.
>>321615736
How was melee broken? Tons and tons of casual players enjoyed the game for years and years on end, never finding and abusing any advanced technique, never playing against competitive melee players, always having their fun with free for all with items on at temple.
What did the competitive players do to you for you to hate them so much?
http://oddshot.tv/shot/shi-gaming-201512278231752
Anyone watching Shi-G?
ryu, cloud and bayonetta are amazing (from what i've seen of the latter at least) when Sakurai's allowed to just sit there and design a great fucking character. tons of extraneous details that are nods to the character and their series, with great movesets that are fun. the 2 latter even get full-fledged alt costumes that everyone wanted here for the main cast
he's great at everything revolving around the characters and pretty bad as the primary director/decision maker on everything else
>>321615736
They could make a game that captures the spirit of Melee and feels genuine instead of just rehashing content from Melee and other games.
That would require effort though and I wouldn't ever expect it.
>>321608862
>Recovering is too easy, has too much priority, and most of them cover too much range
>kill moves have a ton of lag because of no manual smooth landing allowed or too many startup/ending frames
>air dodges still hold your hand
>sheilds still need more stun to account for the game having no ability for aggressive pressure that doesn't end in shield grabs.
>rolling is too fast.
Saying you can punish it is a argumentative copout, any move can be punished in Smash. Rolling is too good of a option.
>running mechanics
They're horribly sloppy at best now, leaving you sliding all over the place if you dont pivot or shield stop. There's no damage control you can make for this. it simply limits movement in a series where movement is everything.
>1pmodes are a fucking mess
>classic sucks now
Like whoever thought this was a good idea should be strung up in the street
>adventure when
>BTT sucks even harder now
>I never liked HRC past Melee, it seems so dumbed down without smooth landing. the teamwork requirements are kinda neat but still fuck HRC now
>worst item list in series history
>stages are a clusterfuck
>online
quality is better but your options for play still suck despite being expanded on. Teams matches need stock, time just means people play like cowards, team hit needs to be on too so people have to think instead of playing braindead.
Add to this paywalled content and microtransactions everywhere and it's just a fucking disaster of a game. Saying its better than brawl is like saying breathing farts is better than breathing poison. Yeah it's obvious but it's still not a favorable tradeoff.
>>321615410
>beat level 8 and 9 computers somewhat consistently, enough to build some confidence
>played For Glory 1v1 for the first time tonight
>lost 31
>won 5
>mfw "one good player among a sea of shit" won't be me anytime soon
How do you get good at this game? Just gradually get a little better at not getting your ass whooped online?
If you honestly and legitimately think that tr4sh is a better game than melee, there are 2 options:
1: You never played melee to experience any advanced mechanics (wavedashing, l cancelling, jump cancels, wave/multishine, shuffling, ledge teching, moonwalking, shield pressuring, juggling, ACTUAL DASH DANCING, etc)
2: You tried to play melee but it was too difficult or you are simply just a casual player.
Someone said that apparently this game is faster than melee which could literally not be anymore wrong.
Melee won't die. Smash 4 will.
>>321615818
I wish the Sm4sh that got all the good content was the one that you can actually see. Fuck the 3DS.
>>321615918
Broken as in extremely unbalanced. Highlevel play was limited to like 8 characters, most of them clones of eachother, and it was impossible to break into the scene because someone always studied the frames or some shit, exploited a glitch, or just did it better. I don't hate the competitive scene, I have mad props for the people who waste away playing melee for a living, but I don't have meleeria and I find Sm4sh a bit more comfortable.
>>321615998
You look up tutorials and read about your character on smashboards.
One single night of learning about the game's mechanics makes anybody improve tremendously.
Who do you play, anon? And what moves do you usually use?
>>321612092
>They're teleporting to it and invincible before anyone can punish it.
Well actually there's a 2 frame window. It's not much, but it's there.
>>321615998
No skill behind smash 4. Just have to expect something and punish them for being right.
>>321615967
>he's great at everything revolving around the characters
When he wants to be.
>>321608862
free whiffs
>>321616128
maybe you need some glasses after playing so much vidya, i can see superiorsm4sh just fine
>>321615918
>How was melee broken?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWO6iDefd-g
>>321615293
No co-op onlien stadium refers to the stadium mode in smash 4 that was pooped on when Sakurai decided Angry Birds was better than break the targets.
>>321615918
>How was melee broken?
Not the same person, but the game itself isn't broken but rather the meta is completely centered around exploits and things the game was not balanced around, such as wavedashing.
Irks me when players bitch and moan at the idea of using alternate moves or specific equipment in Smash 4 to make it not fucking slow and boring because the game wasn't balanced around them, when Melee's entire meta revolves around shit the game was not balanced around either.
>>321609805
ledge snapping is stupidly broken in practically every case.
i don't agree with recoveries being OP across the board, but the characters that do have strong ones (like fucking villager) only have that amplified by being able to immediately snap to the ledge from vast fucking distances.
You remove the ledge snapping, you make offstage play actually meaningful, you make DI important again, (despite one of my biggest complaints was the removal of Vectoring for the return of DI), and most importantly, you speed up the game significantly without going full broken physics mode of Melee.
>>321611438
having customs does so much for the game, but the fact that they're all gated behind pure RNG makes it a competitive nightmare (since you either force players to spend time grinding in order to stay competitive, or you're just passing around save files which most likely sets off Nintendo's autism alarm and they outright ban it.
but overall, the biggest complaint with customs are that people are going to bitch and moan that it isn't a direct copy of melee physics. but honestly why does it have to be?
>>321615998
The thing that sucks about Sm4sh when transitioning from similar games is that you have to play conservatively and take your time or you get punished to hell and back.
Know your characters moves and wait for an opening.
>>321616376
The exploits made it hard to play therefore making it competitive
>>321616376
>but the game itself isn't broken
The game itself is very broken. It's usually shit related to lower tier characters
>>321616345
I'm unsure why you'd want to do stadium online other than maybe leaderboards for HRC.
IIRC Break the Targets were character specific so it would defeat the purpose if you made them multiplayer.
>>321616345
And this is why sakurai caters to idiots and casuals, you people don't know what the fuck you want.
You don't want clones, you don't want Nintendo to rehash, but then you want SSE back, you want the same extra modes we've had for 15 years?
Feel bad for the anons that who have never played melee. Missed out on so much. They even begin to think smash 4 is good. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=obsLnZF7gWM
>>321616252
okay, that's a better way to phrase it
when he's giving it his all you get gold like all of the guest characters (bar Sonic a bit who could use some adjustments), but a handful of the primary cast/veterans are starting to fester a bit
>>321616252
Maybe Wario and Ganondorf will actually be Wario and Ganondorf in smash 5
maybe.
>>321616480
Low tier characters like Kirby and pichu have nothing wrong with them what are you talking about
>>321616138
>Highlevel play was limited to like 8 characters
Smash 4 is limited to 2 characters (Sheik and ZSS), and Pre-patch 1.0.8 Diddy.
>always studied the frames or some shit
Smash 4 players do this as well.
>exploited a glitch
You can't "exploit a glitch". A glitch and an exploit are two extremely different things.
I don't see why the clone argument is a problem to be honest. Their gameplay styles are more varied than characters in smash 4.
Now before you jump on me, let's say that the "high tier" of smash 4 is also viable.
>Melee: Fox, Falco, Jiggs, Peach, Sheik, Marth, Falcon, and ICs
8/24 That's about 1/3 of the cast being highly viable.
>Smash 4: Sheik, ZSS, Diddy, Rosalina, Mario, Ryu, Sonic, Pikachu, Ness, Luigi, Yoshi
11/54
That's less than 1/4 of the cast being highly viable.
All of this points at Melee being more balanced than Smash 4.
>>321616542
Is it so bad to want them to bring back modes people enjoyed and at the same time add new stuff? Sequels are supposed to improve on the predecessor.
>>321616270
Some of us like to play video games at a resolution larger than 240p.
8-bit games? 16-bit games? Sure. I love me some retro vidya. But modern fucking video games with 3D graphics? Fuck that shit.
>>321616645
You can literally mash out of Kirby's throws.
When I say broken I mean doesn't work as intended or at all.
Like Mewtwo's Side B.
>>321616146
I main Pikachu, technically. More kills on him than anyone else. I enjoy Ryu as my heavy hitter but I picked up DK a few nights ago and ended up liking him.
I learned about the stale moves thing a few days ago so I save my upsmash for kills when I think it'll work, but I usually waste it trying to uptilt to juggle. I like to grab but I didn't know until this thread that you should upthrow with him. I guess upthrow into Thunder? Usually I'll forward throw and go in for a dash attack. I also like his back-air a lot for some reason.
>>321616750
I'm really curious how shit like that didn't get patched in later versions when other things did.
>>321616659
>You can't "exploit a glitch". A glitch and an exploit are two extremely different things.
Exploiting as in using a glitch to your advantage. Similar to exploiting a bug to your advantage.
>>321616597
wario's fun as fuck in smash currently
i'd rather they just turn current Wario into Wario-Man thematically and give him a new Final Smash; current wario's air mobility and really bizarre whimsical moves would be better suited to that warioware alter ego
make new Wario the classic strongman brawler from the warioland games
2 wario's would set a lot of people off here though, i think
>>321616542
>surprised people get pissed off when you remove or water-down things that are actually good in favor of gimmicky bullshit
I'd love an improved Break the Targets. It was amazing in Melee, and they kind of threw it out in Brawl for the same five levels for everyone, but it wasn't bad.
Also notice how every game mode in every other Smash fits into the core gameplay somehow? Instead of being gimmicky shit.
>>321616847
Do you know what an Autocancel is?
You should also be using his Up-B a lot, it's one of his most powerful moves.
Watch the player Esam play. He's the best pikachu, and copy some of his stuff.
>>321616421
>the fact that they're all gated behind pure RNG makes it a competitive nightmare
Yup, only major complaint I have with them. You can get the smooth lander badge right away, and I guess that's the most important one, but for the other two it's a huge pain.
It would be possible to set up multiple Wii Us with the custom profiles, it would just be tedious. You'd need at last one 3DS with Smash to copy and distribute them all. We just need to be able to copy save files.
>>321616750
First of all even if they did work as "intended" it wouldn't matter those characters are terrible.
Second the game was released in the early 2000s, what did you expect?
Every game has things like that.
If melee was bad it would be dead and things like that don't make it bad.
>>321616847
Up throw into thunder is a good combo. At high percents you need to jump before doing thunder and it'll kill 90% of the time at that point.
>>321617042
The amount of skill needed is unreal.
>>321616969
There are no glitches actually being exploited in competitive melee though.
Wavedashing is an exploit of the landfallspecial mechanic, literally hardcoded into the game.
The only glitch that ever sees the competitive scene is the Invisible Ceiling Glitch, which only Luigi (a Mid-tier that never wins anything) can do, and very rarely.
>>321616667
>Is it so bad to want them to bring back modes people enjoyed and at the same time add new stuff?
But that's exactly what they always do. They brought back many modes in Smash 4 and added new ones. It's just never EXACTLY what each and every fan wants, so they still bitch endlessly.
>Sequels are supposed to improve on the predecessor.
And it did, in many, many ways. You not liking the content doesn't make it objectively worse, and again they've done exactly what you asked for: Some old returning content with new. But it wasn't exactly what you wanted, so you complain.
>>>321616981
>Break the targets
>Not gimmicky bullshit
I fail to see how one is great and the other is "gimmicky bullshit" when they're both gimmicky.
>>321617028
>First of all even if they did work as "intended" it wouldn't matter those characters are terrible.
I'm not saying it would.
>Second the game was released in the early 2000s, what did you expect?
The year the game came out has nothing to do with it. It's most likely like that because they developed the game in 7 months and they couldnt catch everything.
>Every game has things like that.
Doesn't excuse them.
I'm not even saying it's a bad game. I never saying anything about it's quality (it's a great game, btw). I'm simply stating that it has broken shit, which is a fact.
Why so defensive, anon?
>>321617168
S2J vs abate tho
>>321617000
I saw a video on it but he never really explained how to do it, just what it was.
Just to put things in perspective, I haven't had this game for longer than a month. Today is literally my 1 month anniversary for it (got it on Thanksgiving) so I'm turbonoob
>>321612728
even though i wanted K.Rool more than anyone else, i'm glad Bayo got in over some of the other choices.
what i'm pissed about (as should you) is hackurai using her as an excuse to force even more FE characters down our throats.
FE is nothing more than a cult franchise in the US, and isn't even close to the biggest RPG franchise in Japan, so why is it that they have the second largest amount of reps in smash 4, other than Sakurai's nepotism for his own company's games.
>>321617249
Break the Targets actually forces you to use your character's abilities to complete a different objective. Getting good times requires knowing your character's moves and shit.
Smash needs more shit like that. Not Mario Party and Angry Birds. I wouldn't even give a shit if they never brought back Break the Targets if we got something actually clever and creative.
>>321612085
I agree. Melee autists especially.
>>321617168
And super wavedash. I've pulled that shit off in tournament sets before. Always gets a good reaction.
>>321617346
S2J knows he can't edgeguard, all he needed to do was grab the ledge. But no, he had to go deep with fucking Falcon. Abate was already dead.
>>321617418
Look up these channels:
RushHourSmash
BeefySmashDoods
They're good. Don't try to absorb all of it in one night since it's a lot of information.
>>321617249
>But that's exactly what they always do.
Except they didn't. They cut break the targets and board the platforms, and replaced them with less fun minigames that barely use game mechanics.
SSE was cut and we got glorified Mario Party.
At least Master/Crazy Orders are fun.
BTT is like a mini tutorial for each character, at least in Melee. "How do I hit that target under this platform? Holy shit, Thunder Jolt goes around ledges!"
Unfortunately that was removed from Brawl and all we got was 5 homogenized stages.
>>321617323
Most people here are explaining how great tr4sh is when they missed out on melee so I assumed you were using that as a reason to join them.
Defensive because it irritates me when I read stuff like this but then I again I like to argue :D
>>321617569
Jesus anon, you're quite the faggot aren't you.
>>321617456
Tfw casuals thing smash 4 is good LOL
>>321616542
I'm sorry for liking break the targets more than angry birds.
>>321617448
>Getting good times requires knowing your character's moves and shit.
Fair point, but I'd argue this is also true for the new "Angry Birds" mode as well. You can't just wail on the bomb, it'll leave the stage too early and go nowhere, you need to know how your character's moves work so you can combo and rack up as much damage as you can without sending it flying prematurely. Getting a high score here is also dependent on knowing your character and timing your moves correctly. I guess it's a little too much like the home run contest though.
>>321617524
Johnny always has to go for that stomp. Just the way he rolls XD
>>321617616
Just came from /b/ so yea pretty much
>>321617681
It works exactly like HRC except it's far less satisfying and way more braindead.
Speaking of HRC they casualized that too. Now you pretty much NEED the bat to get a decent score whereas before many moves gave enough knockback to be as good or better than the bat.
>>321617681
I really hope you guys are joking about the whole break the targets things helps you with the character
>>321617780
>Just came from /b/ so yea pretty much
You go to Melee Hell too don't you
>>321617902
Is that a thread or bait
>>321617970
It's afacebook group
It's basically cancer.
ANYONE UP FOR A TOURNEY OR IS IT TOO LATE?
>>321608862
Smash Board
Nothing other than Marth being weak.
>>321617557
I repeat:
>You not liking the content doesn't make it objectively worse
>it wasn't exactly what you wanted, so you complain.
The game improved on it's predecessor in many ways, it is mechanically superior to Brawl. It didn't just rehash the same shit Brawl had, it did something new, which is what fans SCREAM at Nintendo constantly for not doing enough of. You personally not finding some of the new game modes fun does not make them objectively worse or mean the game is objectively worse.
>that barely use game mechanics.
Bullshit, the new break the targets requires just as much knowledge of your character to get consistently high score as the old one, much like the home run contest. You're just generalizing because you're dissatisfied and want to make what you don't like look worse than it actually is.
>>321613430
>rage
doesn't effect the entire roster, and is only really a problem for Lucario who gets absolutely broken when getting over 100%. Fix Lucario and rage isn't a problem.
>Stale moves
only a retard doesn't like stale moves. It forces the player to actually mix up their moves and experiment. Imagine what Smash4 would be like if stale moves didn't exist.
>down throw is the only viable combo option, and grabs in general are not significant
the only characters that have viable dthrows are Diddy, Sheik, and G&W. Grabs and Throws in general are stronger in Smash4, but given how nerfed to shit DI is, and how stupid offstage play is (with ledge snapping and most of the cast having decent to retardedly broken recoveries) making throws stronger kinda makes sense.
>kills do not happen unless the opponent is at kill %
are you just retarded or what?
>kinda same as above but spiking is meaningless
except it's not? fewer characters have guaranteed spikes, but those spikes are just as deadly to everyone who gets hit by them. Footstools has become meaningless, and by association whiffing a spike has zero ramifications for both players, but spikes that land definitely aren't meaningless.
>kinda same as above but you can recover from fucking anywhere with every character
a small minority of characters have stupidly broken recoveries that allow for this
a small minority of characters also have god awful recoveries that mean absolutely nothing
but the majority of the cast has decent recovery options. the main culprit here isn't the recoveries themselves, but how bad ledgesnapping is in smash4. There's no excuse as to why DK can "wall of pain" someone into a kill and recover by snapping to the ledge halfway back from the edge. that's the real reason why recoveries all seem broken, it's because ledge snapping is legitimately broken.
>>321617882
Neither mode helps you learn anything, you need to already be familiar with the character to get a highscore. One poster implied the angry birds mode requires zero skill and the old mode did, which is bullshit. Both require you know your character well to do well.
>>321618021
I'm not part of any melee community. I just watch streams, YouTube channels like Vgbc, and practice. I've played every smash (but only a little of 64) and can easily say my order is melee>pm>sm4sh>brawl>64.
Again never really played 64 so that's why it's low
>>321618097
>You not liking the content doesn't make it objectively worse
No, but there are things about it that are quantifiably worse.
>It didn't just rehash the same shit Brawl had, it did something new
You said yourself that the new BTT is basically homerun contest. How is that not a rehash?
The only truly new mode in Smash 4 is trophy rush.
I didn't generalize anything, I've provided concrete points on everything I criticized.
>>321618261
>Grabs and Throws in general are stronger in Smash4
Nope, even characters like Ness, Zelda and Mewtwo who could get KOs with throws consistently in past games struggle here. In Brawl, you were dead if Ness grabbed you anywhere on the stageand you were above ~100%, it's considerably higher in Smash 4.
>>321617524
Subbed to both. Found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=050XUPFDzSc kek'd heartily. Thanks for the direction, anon. I'll watch some stuff before I play tomorrow and see how I can improve.
>>321611729
>he is not happy for Ryu, Cloud and Bayonetta
>he hates Shulk
Kekity kek.
>>321618262
Idk what angry birds mode is but I assume it's like the app on phones.
I was disappointed with smash 4 after learning to play melee competitively so I stopped playing it all together.
What mode did they remove?
>>321613430
>spiking is meaningless
With the removal of Meteor Cancelling, spikes are better than ever.
>>321618397
Peach FThrow can kill a spacy at 60 percent in melee.
Reasons why I play peach low the slap to edge guard is always satisfying.
>>321618351
>No, but there are things about it that are quantifiably worse.
Again, I argue you need to know your character just as well to do well here as you did on the old mode. You're oversimplifying for your benefit.
>You said yourself that the new BTT is basically homerun contest.
I was speaking generally about the game as a whole, which was clear from the previous sentence's context:
>The game improved on it's predecessor in many ways, it is mechanically superior to Brawl. It didn't just rehash the same shit Brawl had, it did something new
>>321618470
That was what true spikes were for in melee what the hell did they do to smash
>>321618397
>In Brawl, you were dead if Ness grabbed you anywhere on the stageand you were above ~100%, it's considerably higher in Smash 4.
Bthrow kills at like 120% from the middle of the stage, 100-110 anywhere else.
>mfw people think down-throw up-air as exclusively Sheik/Samus is fun
>>321618548
I will never understand how anyone can complain about Smash 4's grabs and throws being too good, they're the worst they've been yet for KOs.
>>321618617
They got rid of meteor cancelling, thank fucking god.
Shit was stupid.
>>321618618
Ness bthrow killed at 70 near cliff and he was low tier.
Talking about melee.
>>321618618
In Smash 4? No, you're not dying at 100% from a Ness Bthrow in Smash 4 unless you're extremely light.
Mewtwo could kill just about anyone at ~105% with an Uthrow in Melee, I wouldn't even try at anything below 130% in Smash 4.
>The entire implementation of Customs is awful
>but Ganon's Warlock Blade, Dark Fists, and Wizard's Dropkick make him unambiguously more powerful while still not fundamentally changing him
it hurts
>>321618795
People call that shit the Ebola back throw for a reason.
You're killing everything but superheavies in the 100-120 range from the edge of the stage.
>>321618675
They had that so that unique moves spiked like Falco dair and marth ntsc dair tipper. It's fairly difficult to meteor smash cancel at above 70 so really it only prevented cheap kills.
>>321617442
he sorta put the blame on Nintendo, saying they wanted a character in to promote one of their newest games, with the new FE out in Japan and coming overseas soon, they figured, WHY NOT CORRIN?
Less we forget a new M&L (with Paper Mario) and a new Star Fox is coming out (or even fucking Linkle or Tetra in HWL), they still decide on Fire Emblem, because WHY NOT ANIME SWORDSMAN are what the Japanese want.
>>321618671
>>321618671
They've never played a real smash game like melee
>>321618813
Does he still get the cancel from Dspecial off the ledge with his alternate moves? Can't lose that Wizard Kick cancel, and with the recent buff to shield damage I find the weird angles his custom Dspecials have in-air off-putting.
>>321618886
>It's fairly difficult to meteor smash cancel at above 70 so really it only prevented cheap kills.
The slower fall speeds handle that. At low %s they dont have enough knockback to force you into the blast zones.
It's bad news for characters like DK who have poor vertical recovery though.
>>321618614
>I argue you need to know your character just as well to do well here as you did on the old mode
Even so, Melee had a different stage for EACH character, specifically tailored to show off that character. In Smash 4 you get three or 4 that are the same no matter what. Either way it's still less content.
In terms of game mechanics I agree that it's an improvement. In terms of game modes, so many things have become stripped down, genericized, and there's less content overall in them.
>>321619010
Lol I forgot in smash 4 you fall ridiculously slowly lol.
Melee you get sent down like a bullet.
Best game coming through
>>321619120
No, Brawl you fall ridiculously slow.
4's fall speed is closer to 64.
Some characters have stupid fast falls like Link though.
>>321618884
>You're killing everything but superheavies in the 100-120 range from the edge of the stage.
And it used to kill anyone anywhere at ~110%, that's my point. I play Ganondorf a lot and I'm surviving at 140%+ when in Melee/Brawl I'd be dead. throws are just not as useful for kills as they used to be. Mewtwo got it worse, his B/Uthrow killed at ~100-110%, I'm waiting until 120%+ most of the time now.
>>321619123
>dat filename
fucking kek
>>321619214
>Some characters have stupid fast falls like Link though.
And by this I mean his Fast Fall is super fast, not he falls fast.
Link's got a medium regular fall speed.
>>321619050
>Either way it's still less content.
But aren't there lots and lots of different layouts for the new target smash as well? I might even be randomized to an extent, I'm not sure, but I know you're not doing the same one each time.
>>321612475
Almost everything Sakurai adds to appeal to the casual fans only annoys everyone, while what he takes out to piss off the competitive scene pisses off everyone.
>>321619123
Sick but try this it just happened https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cT1kFKCJGeY
>>321619326
>But aren't there lots and lots of different layouts for the new target smash as well?
There's 3 layouts and I THINK the targets might be randomized, but that's probably wrong.
>>321619214
I meant ridiculously slow compared to melee. Brawl is slower you're right.
>>321619504
F Zero X is slow compared to Melee. That doesn't say much.
>>321619326
>But aren't there lots and lots of different layouts for the new target smash as well?
Target Blast only has three layouts on Wii U.
>>321619552
I meant the falling speed of a meteor smash cancel what are you talking about LMAO
>>321619598
I'm saying melee's fall speed is so high it makes FZero look slow lmaosmhtbhimofam
>>321619714
Do these threads 404 I spend too much time in /b/
>>321619946
go back there
>>321619946
Lost?
Here, I'll help.
>>>/b/
>>321619997
>>321620054
That feel when I wanna try not being cancer or a faggot :(
>>321608862
Smash Tour.
Sakurai deserves bamboo shoots up his fingernails for that shit.
I still love the game, but I do have major gripes.
>Most of the reused stages suck.
>Hardly any new remixes for DKC series, just the same old DK Island Swing remixed more times
>Only new Wario song got cut from non-JP versions
>Most of the characters (especially third party) unlocked from the get-go. (I feel like it would've been more fun to unlock Mega Man/Pac, ect)
>Board Game mode sucks ass, should've just thrown in Smash Run again.
>Classic Mode is a fucking mess. Random bouts with Giant or Metal characters out of nowhere in constant 8 player fights can throw you fucking off.
>>321620660
>>Only new Wario song got cut from non-JP versions
Fucking why
Remember when Brawl had like 3 Pikmin songs that were all in different languages? Plus Environmental Noises? Yet Wario music gets left out.
>>321620660
>>Most of the characters (especially third party) unlocked from the get-go. (I feel like it would've been more fun to unlock Mega Man/Pac, ect)
This is very nitpicky but I agree there was a serious joy in the challenge of unlocking secret characters and that was hardly present in 4
>>321622038
yeah they made them super easy to unlock in this.This is a boon when nintendo provides a dozen free setups for a big tournament and you have to unlock everything the night before though
I actually like Smash Tour.
>>321612310
so just like previous smash?
>>321614460
>play ganondorf on miiverse stage
>someone managed to draw a recognizable dick and get away with it
>>321618658
>mfw a kid on 4glory was spamming down throw, up air, up B as zss even at low percentages
The only thing that seriously bugs me is the new infinite air dodge. It makes air game a complete 50/50 no matter who you play. If that was changed, it would feel like a fantastic game, but sadly we're left with really awkward unpunishing windows of invincibility frames that make you never want to chase during what should be the most exciting part.
>>321608862
Mustanhero Sackofshit
they split up development on a 3ds and wiiu version. Because of that we got a neutered smash run for 3ds, and bad single player modes on wiiu. We lost ice climbers and other potebtially interesting thing as well, and it makes the content seem lacking
>>321624172
I hate that there's really no safe way to land.
Landing has lag.
Attempting to air dodge will have even more lag.
Attempting an attack will get you hit.
Teching can be followed and some attacks will easily hit you.
>>321624172
>>321624690
These 2 are the most spot on things. Most others is nitpicking or "not muh melee" but these 2 hurt the feel of the game worse than anything.
The 3ds split will always bug me the most because some of the best more tame stages ended up only on the 3ds while WiiU had to make a bunch that were accommodating of an 8 player battle or had some boss fight gimmick. I would kill for just a WiiU update that just added all the 3ds stages to it.
>>321615590
Melee's trophies were so great. Even if they look kinda like shit now, I still love them. I used to spend lots of time just reading the description and looking them over with that chill ass music in the background. Sweet memories.
>>321614106
There's no meteor smashes in Smash 4, just different spike strengths.
>>321625278
They literally tell you in the game that meteor smashes are just moves with downwards launch power.
