Why is this allowed why is this fucking allowed
>>321355246
What's wrong with it
>>321355246
I agree, 30 FPS games should be all banned
>cant get a top down shooter to run at 60 FPS
why is it allowed?
the issue is not the framerate itself but the notion of games tying gameplay events to the framerate, which is indicative of extremely lazy design.
I don't know why games are still made to run at only 30 FPS in our current year OP. It is one of gaming's greatest mysteries.
>>321355471
So how did you program your game?
Oh wait..
>>321355246
There is literally no argument against the framerate police, it is an entirely objective group that simply informs potential players.
>>321355471
>person who doesn't design games talks about game design
If it was so easy, why don't you do it?
>>321355642
By using a different thread dedicated to rendering only, and using a deltaTime on anything related to physical movement whatsoever. Fucking faggot.
>>321355803
Not him but he is 100% correct. Tying your main logic and your rendering is just lazy.
>>321355731
this
end yourself op
>>321355943
>By using a different thread dedicated to rendering only
drivers do this for you nowadays
or are you using catalyst on linux?
>>321356125
I want to argue with you, because I love to debate. Just look at this image, it's where you are currently at with this conversation.
60 is better than 30
>>321356245
sorry for owning on a single post, so you have to resort to ad hominem
>>321355246
To inform people not to buy garbage by giving them easily identifiable information on the purchase page which the developer may have tried to either hide or make no mention of.
if you think about it, it's easier on the developer than getting their hopes up with a bunch of sales that will inevitably be turned back into refunds within an hour or so.
Even then there are some sad saps out there who would buy it regardless of fps and still return it cause a top down shooter game isnt worth 5,250 wulong.
>>321355246
30 FPS is pretty much admitting you have a defective game. It's fucking garbage and nobody should reasonably be expected to play at that, especially informed customers like the PC userbase.
>>321355642
uh i programed a little game called "ocarina of time" so back the fuck off
>>321355246
>W with two slashes through it
>currency symbol
Can someone explain to me what's wrong with having 30FPS on games that don't really have much action?
Like RPGs or puzzle games.
I mean I get why a fighting game or a shooter would benefit a lot from 60fps but why does every single game need it?
>>321355246
>you will never be such a whiny little bitch that you cry about objective information being made public
>>321356568
>>321356689
PC fanbase everyone
>>321356957
it's just superior, there's no reason not to have it on your shitty gamemaker game unless you're bad at optimizing. Maybe if you were making ground-breaking graphical landmarks then you would get some slack for not being at 60FPS, but you're probably not, you're probably just making some graphically simple shit. In that case there's basically no excuse but incompetence.
>>321356545
Alright, I'll bite.
>>321356125
>drivers do this for you nowadays
This shows that you have literally never programmed anything graphics. When you're working on game development, typically you'll use an engine like Unity or GM:S, which typically handles the seperation of logic and graphics for you. In some cases, people will make their own engine or something that will do all of it in a single thread. It's literally impossible to just say "lol doesn't the driver do dis" and have the computer magically know how to render things for you. You explicitly tell your GPU to draw a at (x,y,z) etc. You can do this on the main thread and just have a stupid simple loop of -> object logic -> graphics drawing -> repeat. Most people who aren't retarded separate these into two different threads and move based on time, instead of just "lol move right by X pixels every frame" like a single threaded application would limit you.
Your whole response with "catalyst on linux" is just you saying words you heard on /g/ and trying to sound smart or something. I don't know where else I can go with this.
>>321356812
>>321356957
It doesn't look very good, but there's not much of a difference gameplay wise for RPGs or puzzle games, you're correct.
The objective of the steam group pictured is to document this regardless of genre, quality of game, or any other factor though.
Notice how it doesn't say "unplayable" or anything like that, for any games it tags.
It just states facts, and leaves it up to the consumers to care.
there are people in this thread not playing games at 120 FPS
>ISHYGDDT
>>321356568
>>321356689
Funny considering how popularUndertaleis even with its 30 FPS lock.
>>321355246
Because Valve thinks female protagonist is a useful tag while 30fps is not.
>>321355413
Shit developers trying to cash in. What else is new.
>>321355246
What's the problem? It's not wrong?
>>321357331
Shit games are popular, more stunning developments at 11.
>>321356957
its wrong for the same reason streets have these annoying speed limits that gimp your brand new car, preventing it from unlocking its full potential
go check at Ford's forums and you'll see a ton of rabid shitposters complaining about it too, they even got a MPHpolice
>>321355642
you have a few options
>delta time
game runs as fast as possible, with events happening based on actual time elapsed, distances moved and shit are based on a percentage of the time between updates
most modern games do this
drawback is that there's a small amount of imprecision involved due to rounding errors and shit and it's more effort than tying game speed to framerate
that being said, the precision issue is almost never an actual issue for most scenerios
>fixed rate interpolation
game runs at fixed rate, drawing happens as fast as possible and positions are interpolated with the previous two frames
this method is used in ZDoom because the Doom engine updates everything at 35fps
would be possible to use this for things that are heavily frame-based like fighting games and shit that needs precision timing
the drawback is that it ends up being as complicated as using delta time and introduces one tick of lag
there's other, worse solutions (fixed time, no interpolation, drawing happens whenever in other thread -- game runs at 60, and as long as drawing is the bottleneck, the game keeps full speed still, disadvantage is that higher framerates aren't possible, so your 144hz monitor is unused and kind of choppy -- could be useful if you run at a high fixed rate and need precision without lag)
>>321356957
Puzzle games that have fast reactions benefit.
still kind of bothered that fucking Magical Drop 3 only runs at 30fps, you fucking need that high-framerate, it is a fast as fuck game that's like 40% reflex
and then RPGs have no real reason to run at 30-- they're either piss simple (so there's nothing tying you to such a low framerate) or intended for eye candy (so, visual smoothness is a must)
>>321357110
this
well, GM used to be pretty damn bad with performance, I remember back in 2005 having to set the FPS limit at 45 in GM5 games I made because 60 slowed down too much and 30 looked like ass (and I didn't care about tearing and shit at the time)
>>321355246
>get zestiria on steam
>its 30fps locked
>literally 2 minutes of searching to find a hack that unlocks the frame limit and provides other benefits
Why does 30fps matter when it can be modded away easily?
>>321357301
>playing games at 120
>and not 144
S
H
I
G
I
T
T
Y
>>321357865
but then you'd be missing all the funposting, specially when shills get mad at you for ruining their waifu company's business
>>321355246
its purpose is for lazy AAA dev, but now its become curation for pompous asshole autist
>>321357865
lots of games break when you mod them to 60
>>321357142
>You can do this on the main thread and just have a stupid simple loop of -> object logic -> graphics drawing -> repeat.
>graphics drawing
and is there where the driver takes over and nowadays it relays to an internal drawing thread instead of doing it synchronously
well my argument is shit, but not by the reasons that you are pointing (my supposed lack of knowledge)
but due lack of compatibility and regressions that it causes, thus your way is better, the developer taking control of the thread synchronization
a useful lecture on it, with some benchmarks showing regressions
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia_threaded_opts&num=1
on the windows side, things seems to be better since on my NVIDIA Control it is set to "Auto" by default
>>321357865
not all framerate caps can be modded away so easily, due to encrypted executables or lack of interest, and some of them break games (like the Zestria one you mentioned)
>>321358197
>letting someone know what framerate a game is capped out is now cause to be called a pompous asshole autist
There should be a label that let's you know if the game excessively uses ATI or NVIDIA features. Or games that intend on trapping you in areas for prolonged times with card specific features.
>>321355246
Man, games are expensive in Wario land.
>>321355246
go on ebay and bitch about all the trash that's being sold there retarded fuck.
>>321355246
that's a lot of woolongs
>>321357142
A single threaded application would in no way limit object movement to "lol move right by X pixels every frame".
You could easily just check the elapsed time since the last frame and use that for framerate independent object movement.
Half-Life 2 lets you set the frame rate cap to any value.
There's no excuse for not doing this. Unfortunately, I've only seen a few games that do it.
Every game is either locked at a single frame rate (which is garbage), or has NO optional fps cap and NO optional vsync and therefore runs at 1000 FPS on a good computer (which is a waste of energy and probably unsafe).
>>321359038
inb4 "but you can just force vsync or fps cap using video card drivers"
Yeah, if it works for that game. I don't know about NVidia, but my AMD card's driver software fails to force vsync in many games. I have to use D3DOverrider (which is a godsend).
And even when you can use GPU drivers or some other third-party software to force vsync in a game, THAT GAME IS STILL ABSOLUTELY SHIT FOR LACKING A NATIVE OPTION.
IS 12 better than 6?
>>321359550
Yes, 6 is a jewish number and thus can't be trusted
>>321358327
>some of them break games
Proof?
I've had no issues so far, and it's probably a simple toggle or reinstall if it does have issues at some point.
>>321359550
>>321359650
but what about13
>>321359758
The 60fps unlock for Dark Souls comes to mind. And the FPS unlocker for Fallout 4 too. FPS greater than 60 makes the physics wig out.
>>321355642
I may not be a five star chef but I know when my steak tastes like shit.
>>321359761
13 gets a bad rep. 3 is just an underdog trying to fight against the tyranny of 5, and 1 is just along for the ride.
>>321359758
Resident Evil 4. If your graphics card can't handle the HD remaster at 60FPS, the entire game slows to a crawl since everything is timed to the FPS timer.
Also running Valkyrie Chronicles at 60 will make the timer run at double speed, forcing your units to cover half distance, not sure if that was ever patched, but it was actually a disadvantage to run at 60 despite how good it looked
>>321359758
skyrim is another
>>321358991
You're not wrong, but you're still locking logic to the rendering thread which is overall much slower performance than not.
>>321358286
I get what you're saying; but I'm pretty sure that in 2015 there isn't a single game being made like that. I'd love to see some examples.
I have no problem with the curation system being used to inform people on how games run before they purchase. I'd be a bit chuffed to find out a game I bought had an arbitrary FPS lock on it. Sorry I did my time as a poorfag playing on integrated graphics and shit consoles when I was a kid. I ain't goin back.
>>321356245
And that guy likes to talk about everything...
>>321359758
I know that some games have their game logic tied to framerate, I think the PC of tokiden was like that, so it just goes at double speed at 60fps. I want to say that one of the dynasty warriors on PC did this and a racing game too, but I honestly don't remember if that really was the case.
>>321359860
It was a 30fps lock on dark souls
>>321355246
I don't know, curators are cancer in general. Why are they plastered on literally every store page and no way to disable them? I don't care who these faggots are or what they recommend.
>>321360501
I know. There was an unlocker in the .ini for DSFix, if you enabled it you risked glitching through ladders and having your durability decay quicker.As well as potentially being banned for it.
Honestly, I was pissed when I started to play that game. it's nothing like hm, it fucking sucks mate
>>321360551
>I don't care about the quality of games
>gee why is this game shit?
>>321355246
>can't get his game to hit 60fps
>crys on /v/ about getting caught
You will see no pity from us.
>>321360635
>what is doing your own investigation instead of blindly believing bribed faggots
>what is returning if it's shit
>>321355246
Why is this allowed why is this fucking allowed
>>321360941
>I DON'T WANT TO READ ABOUT CURATORS!
>then don't read them?
>NO I WANT TO REMOVE IT PERMANENTLY
>>321361058
Apply that logic to your filter here and ads on the web if you use Adblock
If you're done being stupid, the [return] button is on the bottom of the screen
>>321355642
>>321355803
Couldn't be more defensive
>GIVING MORE INFORMATION TO THE CUSTOMER IS BAD
>REEEEEEEE
That's you, OP. Why would anyone not want to know if the devs are lazy shiteaters that can't even get their game to support something so simple as a variable framerate?
>>321359758
Need for Speed: Rivals. If you unlock the fps shit just starts flying all over the place.
https://youtu.be/eDA37BmvNwM?t=5m40s
>>321356360
>Literally 60>30
>>321355246
He's a faggot because he does it to old ass games like xwing
>>321361306
So when i filter something, that word is banned?
>>321361306
don't fucking read the curators, you're there to buy a stupid game and they review it, who fucking cares its better to have that than IGN telling you "its ok 9/10
>>321361576
The purpose of the curator is listing all games with a framerate lock. Why leave out games? It would just make it seem even more picky if you picked and chose games to put on your list even if they all have the same issue.
>>321355246
its okay he'll be dead soon and then you wont have to see it anymore
>>321355246
I'm not sure I understand, is it the fact the game is locked at 30 FPS, or the fact that there's a 30 FPS indication group?
>>321355642
definitely not how you programmed yours
>>321361960
People don't like the guy that formed this curator and think that devs should be allowed to be lazy when making their games without any criticism.
>>321362081
Ah so just autists being autists then, I see, thanks.
>>321362257
>point out the game is 30fps only
>AUTISM
autism is a buzzword you retards use when you hear something you don't like but can't find a reason why its bad so you just call it/them autistic
>>321362382
Pretty sure he's saying calling a game out on it's framerate is fine.
You fucking autist.
>>321355642
In unity, because Unreal was too hard ;_;
>>321355246
>Developer: "Fuck I don't even want to draw textures and shit... I just want a money. I know! I just make a "scetchy graphics".
Lazy fucks.
>>321362382
...AUTISM
AUUUTTTTISM
>>321361576
Old as shit games could run at 60 for all we know, having information on hand for comfirmation's sake should never be a bad thing.
>>321355246
>why is this fucking allowed
It's like saying "Why are tags allowed! I don't want to know a genre of game I'm about to buy".
30 fps lock doesn't do anything besides giving a consumer information about a game.
>>321362382
autism
>>321362817
>information about 30 fps lock doesn't do anything besides giving a consumer information about a game.
Selffix
>>321361010
>"You filthy malatoblood"
>"WHAT THE FUCK YOU JUST CALL ME OH HEEEELLLL NAAAAAAH YOU DID NOT JUST SAY WHAT I THINK YOU SAID"
>>321355471
It's not lazy design, retard. It's optimizing in an environment where 30fps is typically the norm (i.e. consoles and mid-tier PCs). Having a constant delta time makes many things much easier to work with.
I don't like it, I spent a lot of money on a PC to get decent framerates, but knowing why things get locked to 30fps at least helps you not sound like an ignorant faggot when you complain about it.
>>321355246
It exists because Valve decided to listen to whiny fag devs and prevent users from tagging games with a 30fps tag. Hence TB decided to make a group devoted to listing them instead and people like you are still whining about it.
>>321363056
This should be one of the things they fix when porting to PC.
>mid tier PCs
Mid tier PCs benefit from unlocked framerates too. This is just another thing that console gaming ruins for everyone else. I wish the markets would be separate again so people didn't have to deal with this bullshit. But no, next year we're just going to get another truckload of shitty Japanese ports that can't even get the basics right.
>>321363056
>Having a constant delta time makes many things much easier to work with.
>lazy design
>>321363575
When your game costs $100 million to make and takes 2 years with 300 people working overtime, yeah it makes it easier. I guess everyone is just lazy :^)
Someone is crying AGAIN about people getting informed
The only reason why people are upset over this is because totalbusucuit is behind it, so suddenly it's bad that to know if a game runs at 30 or 60 fps
Fucking retards
>>321363670
Seems to me that if they have that much money and manpower they should be able to more easily get something so simple done right. Or maybe they shouldn't be making games that cost the GDP of a small country with that country's population if not only can they not properly support all platforms but they can't even get it to not be a buggy piece of shit that you can't even play for the first week.
>>321355803
>If it was so easy, why don't you do it?
Because he's not a skrub and likes a challenge? :^)
>>321357331
>implying FPS matters in an RPG
>>321355246
>ctrl f
>no mention of Cowboy Bebop
>>321363856
I never realized this but a lot of these games including marketing are higher than most country's gdp
>>321363854
I love to see these hate circles over meaningless things explode every time something happens in relation to the meaningless thing
>>321363856
Therein lies the problem: You need more people to make a bigger game, but adding more people does not linearly scale with progress and quality. If you don't manage things correctly, more people even detracts with progress and quality and it's very easy to fuck that up. Software development on a large scale sucks dick, it's why Microsoft is such a backstabbing hellhole that rips through new hires like crazy.
>>321355413
Assault Android CACTUS
>>321356245
That graph should descend while going forward after that peak
>>321355246
Nothing really wrong with letting players know since Steam doesn't let people tag games with that. I do think it's a shame that, because it's from a popular web personality and this is such a hot button issue in communities as a whole, it ends up being the most prominent of the recommendations; Over others that might actually have interesting things to say about the game itself.
>>321356245
Professionals exist, you know
>>321365409
>Over others that might actually have interesting things to say about the game itself
ah yes, like the one who lets you know what waifus are in the game, how flat their chests are, and their mean state of undress. how could i make a purchasing decision without that insightful analysis?
>>321365835
You don't have to read them
>>321357656
don't speed limits on streets reduce incidents
>>321366514
he made the mistake of comparing a limit that prevents any safety risks to an arbitrary limit put in place by programmer incompetence
>>321355246
>won
stopped reading there, koreanigger
>>321365835
Please don't simplify things like that anon.
>>321355246
What fucking third-world mudhut currency is this?
>>321367715
looks like one of those korean wons
>>321367715
>he doesn't use Wily coins to purchase his goods
Lel, good luck in the robot revolution, chump
>>321367715
>South Korea
>third world
>>321363854
Not only that, but most of the people who hate TB are literal tumblr trannies. They've got their own little twitter hives too were they circlejerk their feminine dicks about how much of a "shitlord" he is. Most of the threads started here too are by those same people.
>>321368015
>Any korea
>Developed
lmao
>>321368132
better internet than Australia
>>321355642
>Not allowed to criticize if you can't do better
Am I in the Youtube comments section?
>>321355642
name me one modern game engine that forces (or even has by default) an FPS lock below 60.
>>321355246
I'm always delighted to see people say "a game shouldn't be dismissed because it runs at 30FPS," and usually something else like "but the game itself is good." By that logic, shouldn't the 30FPS tag be worn as a badge of honor, as only the best (read: Japanese) games feature it?
>>321368378
Well, it depends on what is being criticized. Most of the things we criticized are obviously made for mass consumption or made within a medium for mass consumption such as movies, music, books and the like. Some, however, are made by professionals to be used only by professionals such as scientific research papers.
>>321368430
Just as soon as a car wears as a badge of honor something saying that it can't hit 60 mph.
>>321359983
>Also running Valkyrie Chronicles at 60 will make the timer run at double speed, forcing your units to cover half distance, not sure if that was ever patched
>Valkyria Chronicles
That game is literally a dump and forget port of a 6 years old game. If you have to ask if a PC port by a Japanese company of an old console exclusive ever got patched to fix any issues, the answer is always no.
The Japanese don't care about PC, but Sega takes it to Ubisoft levels of non-caring. VC was popular on PC, so let's announce a sequel and remaster EXCLUSIVELY on the PS4. Maybe that might see a PC port a decade down the line, knowing Sega, when the PlayStation has Yakuza 58. :^)
>>321368698
But it's made in Japan, Japanese cars are better than pig disgusting western cars!
I know the irony is the fact that Japanese cars are usually faster.
>>321368839
It's christmas, you should kill yourself.
>>321368839
I think they actually did fix the framerate issues in VC. Though I agree with you. Buying these lazy Japanese ports just encourages other devs to do the same bullshit. I don't know why there are so many weeaboos playing games on PC wanting these games when up until relatively recently Japanese games besides maybe the most popular AAA ones were console only.
>>321360079
>>321358286
this was a quality discussion
keep it up /v/
happy holidays
>>321369106
VC wasn't quite a lazy port, it was just a port of an old game that LITERALLY NO ONE asked for. The fact it's a port of a 6 years old game is somewhat insulting as well. Not to mention that Sega THEMSELVES only port one console game to PC per year. Lost World was 2015's console-to-PC port. 2016 will probably be, oh I don't fucking know, maybe Ristar?
>>321356812
hi I just wanted to say thanks for making me laugh, I needed it more than you know
>>321366717
I'm more concerned there's a person who thinks speed limits are evil.
