http://www.nextpowerup.com/news/25396/consumer-group-sues-valve-wants-to-resell-games/
> A consumer group in France has filed a lawsuit against Valve that claims Steam users should be allowed to resell games. The group, UFC-Que Choisir, maintains Valve must allow users to resell the content they have purchased since there's no real difference between physical disks and downloadable games.
Man it's like france wants to make Valve second guess why they're still providing their service to the frenchies
>>321205582
>>321205582
OP, you don't want to be able to resell you games?
Also, the French are right, we should be able to resell our games when ever we want.
>>321205790
here is a perfect example of someone who doesn't understand licensing.
protip: it's been this way since forever even with physical media
you've got your (you) now. go away.
>>321205904
By that logic, we don't own any games we buy. We only own the license to use the game, but that doesn't stop us from reselling games.
>>321205790
Developers would get less money and you would have a shittier games industry. Enjoy ur extra 10bux in ur pocket
>WAHH I WANT EVERYTHING FOR FREE
don't G2A and GMG already do this?
>>321206291
>and you would have a shittier games industry
Is such a thing even possible?
>>321206169
> but that doesn't stop us from reselling games.
That's because you can't physically fucking stop/police someone selling a physical item you stupid fucking dickhead
>>321206169
>By that logic, we don't own any games we buy. We only own the license to use the game
Yes, exactly. Try reading the eula sometime
>>321206291
So I guess you were OK when the Xbox One couldn't let you sell or play used games and when Sony implemented the online pass on used games?
>>321206392
Yes. Every shitty game you play is now 4x as shitty because the devs had half the budget and half the incentive to produce anything
It's ok, i wouldn't expect a 12year old to have learned anything at school yet
>>321205582
>Your honor, we don't sell games
>we just sell keys to games we host for download on our servers
Woah there, I just solved the problem for valve.
>>321206434
I couldn't care less, I buy new games all the time because I'm not poor. I don't see the problem personally I know poorfags would get buttmad about it, but please understand that buying new is always the better choice to provide your hobby with a better future
>buying a used, digital-download game
>>321206626
Buying games at full price every time doesn't make you some or of rich guy, it makes a really shitty shopper who doesn't know how handle money.
>>321206434
>caring at all about xbox one
>>321206757
This x10000. It'd be industry destroying
You never actually have "owned" your games anyway, read the EULA sometimes
>>321206428
While this is true it's sort of like me writing in an eula
"You have to suck my dick if you ever complain"
It's not actually binding, in most cases those are jus there so that if something happens they CAN come after you, they won't win the case but they can at least start it and for most plebs you'll be drowned in lawyer fees before it's even half done.
EULA does not mean that it's law. There are many things you cannot just sign away, and what you own when you purchased it is part of it. If I decide to sell the physical copy I can, nothing you make me sign can change that.
Of course this will eventually culminate with systems simliar to the Vita, but given their vastly diminished sales we all see how people took that.
>>321206291
If people being able to buy their games cheaper would end the game industry then how is it still alive with piracy?
it's stupid because you could just pass a license around for free
>>321206787
> really shitty shopper
You obviously don't understand the power of the dollar do you? Ever heard with voting with your money? There's more to being a good shopper than just finding the rock bottom dirt cheapest price you fucking idiot.
If you really enjoyed product X that company Y makes, but always bought it from a criminal selling it at $1, don't be suprised when 5 years down the line company Y doesn't exist anymore, and you're just sat there in a puddle of tears with your broken productX
Comfirmed for budgetting with mom's allowance money
>>321206969
This. The EULA doesn't overpower the fucking First Sale Doctrine.
lol I dont buy shitty games on Steam, but if I did, I could just use the refund feature.
>>321206972
Because, currently, people buy games you fucking dumbfuck.
It would be a lot better if people didn't pirate though, devs would have more funding. God are you really such a stupid fucking idiot?
>OHH PIRACY EXISTS BUT OMG THEY SOLD 1 GAME! I GUESS GAMING IS SAVED!
fuck off
>>321206291
OK, you do know that we've been able to resell games since the 80s right?
>>321207201
Okay anon, jesus christ.
>>321206558
>Your honor we don't resell games
>we just resell keys to games they host for download on their servers
Woah there, I just remade the problem for valve.
>>321207038
>Buying games on release
>Pre-orders
"Voting with your money
Literally shut the fuck up
Hell most games are given credit based just on pre-orders. I agree entirely with the concept of voting with your money and I adhere to it strictly, but very VERY few companies care about the sales a few days later, and once you sold it it's sold. Going to run out of chars so I'll respond to this further in another post.
>>321206757
Easier to pirate so I wouldn't in most caess.
>>321207201
Looks like we found an indie dev.
>>321207278
Yes, I am aware, you idiot. What's your point?
LESS reselling is beneficial. Of course it exists, of course it happens, but it should always be discouraged as it is the poorer choice for your own hobby.
Fucking retard 12yr olds on /v/ jesus
>>321207038
>Comfirmed for budgetting with mom's allowance money
OK, I can turn this same thing back around on you and say you're a 12 year old who's mom buy all their games.
That's like fucking saying you're poor because you don't pay sticker price on a car.
Reminds me of when Spanish newspapers wanted Google to pay them for linking their articles in the "News" section of Google search.
So Google told them "okay you win I won't show your articles anymore".
A couple of months later they wouldn't stop crying.
I guess it's time for Valve to do what every other sensible company has done and abandon France.
>yuropoors once again going to ruin steam
Its because of them now we don't have daily or flash sales anymore because "muh refunds". Fucking retards cannot go one day without some government law interfering with the free market.
>>321207504
Yeah fuck the consumers am I right?
Owait that's me and you.
Retard.
>>321207504
They could easily get away with it, since France isn't even their biggest EU market. Though if Russia put the squeeze on Valve, they'd be quick to make changes.
>>321207341
>Hell most games are given credit based just on pre-orders.
> but very VERY few companies care about the sales a few days later
Jesus what the fucking fuck are you talking about? Are you an absolute fucking idiot? They money they get for the next 5 years for that game fucking matters to them and their company, they don't just write it off you absolute moron.
Is anyone fucking hearing this cunt? JEsus christ
>>321207451
>I DON'T WANT MY CONSUMER RIGHTS.
OK bro, that's you, but a lot of people do want their consumer rights acknowledged and want to ability to resell games.
>>321205582
how can you sell what you dont own?
It says clear as day in the steam agreement that you dont own your steamgames
>>321205582
>Man it's like france wants to make Valve second guess why they're still providing their service to the frenchies
valve shill detected
the french are actually doing something right
you know what, i dont even think you're a valve shill
you sound like boot licking republican wage kek
>>321205582
It does raise an interesting question, though. SHOULD you be able to resell digital media? Why or why not? What makes it any different from reselling physical media?
Wait a minute, do people here really don't want the right to resell products?
>>321205582
valve will implement this eventually but charging a 50% transaction value fee
>>321205582
France is fucking dumb
It wants the Internet to "forget" things too
And they used the recent terrorist attacks to install a totalitarian regime and to restrict public expressions of political dissent
>>321205582
I don't see the problem. It would be a good point for the consumer (us). Steam has so much monopole right now, something must be done to weaken them, we need more alternatives.
>>321207484
>OK, I can turn this same thing back around on you and say you're a 12 year old who's mom buy all their games.
No, you can't. because the argument I'm making is that you're making the "buy at cheapest price possible under any circumstance" your MAIN PRIORTY, and any other reasoning makes you a 'shitty shopper'. I.e., you don't fucking understand a thing about anything, i.e. you're spending your moms cash cos you're 12.
I know, you're not 12, it's called an exaggeration. I know you're actually 19 with a pissed bed and a shit job and mental capacity of not being able to see the world past how much money is in your shitty spiderman wallet
>>321207646
The difference is it's beneficial for companies to not allow you to resell them as it makes them more money. That's the entirety of it.
>>321207764
You have to remember a lot of people here aren't buying their games with their own money.
>>321206870
Ever heard of store credit?
>>321207583
"Consumer rights" have a cost. I am not willing to pay that cost in order to grant other people a "right" to resell their games.
In b4 "you can't put a cost on consumer rights!" bullshit.
People put a cost on everything, even their own kids' safety. They are more than willing to buy less safe cars for less money, otherwise you'd be seeing everyone driving SUVs for example.
When you grow up you'll realize there is no such thing as a free lunch and there never will be.
>>321206291
Just like the auto industry, right?
>>321207962
What's the cost of consumer rights?
Feel free to google that and get back to me, I'll wait.
>>321207764
You have to be really fucking dumb to think a digital and a physical product are equal.
>>321207038
>>321207341
Cont'd.
The biggest problem is two fold when it comes to game prices for digital.
1)Game prices are raised every few generations because "Gas prices"/etc
2)Despite this digital downloads cost the same price "Because people will stop buying physical"
Instead of actually thinking this is a fucking good idea, shitty companies like GameStop got these fuckers to make Digitals cost the same price, at least the physical can be resold normally so this also makes the physical slightly more desirable if you buy early and resell fast it's actually worth a little more.
The sad thing is that on PC where this doesn't exist because they want it to stay competitive with console the price is still gouged to all hell. Now keep in mind that in the first place the price of CD and package will never exceed $5-10, shipping per CD is probably another $5-10, so there's $30-40 overhead per game, yet they still dare raise prices on stuff like this. Mind you handheld is just as bad.
>>321205904
Hey look! Someone who doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about!
Valve is not selling games. They're permanently renting their games. You get them forever until Valve asspulls some shit to pull the from the store and from all accounts.
>>321207764
>do people here really don't want the right
English.
Learn it.
Also see>>321206757
this is a stupid argument on France's part
>>321207632
You can get Steam refunds no questions asked within a 2hour window. That's enough consumer rights for me. I don't believe people should be able to resell their steam games because it's not fair on the developers (and steam, even though they're rich).
Stop thinking you're entitled to such a free fucking pass in life
>>321207840
Because you're okay with having your pictures all over the internet without your consent? Sure, it's technically impossible to make the "erase" things from the Internet, but at least you should be able to do it on private companies like Facebook or Google.
>totalitarian regime
Yeah sure, even worse than North Korea.
>>321208107
>i have no counter argument so i'll attack his grammar
>>321207962
Yes, consumer rights have a cost, just like meat inspection and the right to pay at a reasonable price.
>>321207861
I really liked that imagery on the last paragraph
>>321207341
You can't resell one time product keys you stupid fucking mongoloid.
If you live in a country with lax firearms laws, I suggest you buy one and use it to improve your brain.
>>321207617
Comparitively pre-order sales are considered much MUCH higher for AAA games. Generally this is also because of all the 'merch' faggots get with it and pay a premium for because it's 'one time deal' shit.
As the game ages and the price dies down it still might get a lot of sales, but generally pre-orders are counted the most by far. First month sales are also fairly big, after that while the money is nice those 4-5 years the game is sold they're not counted as much towards whether the game is going to get a sequel or not.
It's not like you can't look up these practices yourself though.
>>321208117
what the fuck does that have to do with what i said asshole?
thats just a return
>>321207962
>consumer rights are too costly!
Are you a hired shill or something?
>>321207861
>I pay sticker price for cars 100% of the time to prove how rich I am.
>>321208023
well they're the same price
>>321206291
Then I don't understand why games that make so much money like Assassins Creed, Battlefield and CoD are so fucking bad, or why Steam still has the best online service, despite PS+ and Xbox Live being paid services.
>>321207984
>Just like the auto industry, right?
Yes... what's your point? Fucking retards jesus. See >>321207451
I can't believe people keep saying "OMG BUT RESLLING HAS EXISTED FOR YEARS" argument. It's fucking moronic. Especially when you factor in the fact that digital downloads/games DO NOT WEAR/TEAR, greatly unlike the auto industry.
Fuck Fuck. I'm done with this thread, full of self-entitled freebie wanting cheapo fucking faggots expecting better and better games even though they dont want to ever pay an actual developer any money at all.
>>321208023
If they aren't equal why do they cost the same?
>>321208197
>you're okay with having your pictures all over the internet without your consent?
1. If you put pictures up on the web yourself, even on a "private" facebook or something, you're stupid anyways
2. Public places are public, and taking pictures in public is a right, so whatever - this has been going on since photography existed.
>private companies like Facebook or Google.
you're a retard
>Yeah sure
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/nov/27/paris-climate-activists-put-under-house-arrest-using-emergency-laws
>>321208387
You ARE really fucking dumb
>>321208398
>steam has the best online service
>not GoG
>>321208008
The fact that someone (the developer) loses.
God fucking damnit retard
>>321208475
explain to me why i should pay the same price for something i can't resell
>>321205582
I'm all for selling some of the games I don't play for an extra buck. Plus so long as valve gets a cut of the profits that could work.
>>321208206
>I'll ignore the counter-argument provided
no physical media=no first sale doctrine
you're licensing IP, not buying its storage medium
>>321208475
You're actually the idiot here because he has a good point. With physical products, you have to add in shipping, distribution, production of the disc, production of the cover paper and the production of the case.
>>321206291
The gaming industry was way better back when we were able to sell our games, though
I don't know if there's a pattern, but there's that
>>321208208
>the right to pay at a reasonable price
There is no such "right".
By definition transactions that do not involve the state have no coercion in them and therefore are beneficial for both parties: they both believe they're getting more than what they're giving.
If the price was not reasonable there wouldn't be a transaction taking place at all.
You really need a lesson on the difference between positive (authoritarian) and negative (enlightenment) rights too!
>>321208541
Wow you really took your time on that one.
>developer loses
>consumer wins
>it's a net loss
Hokayyyyy
>I want the ability to resell my copy of a piece of media that can be copied and pasted without any impact on physical space
Unless the prices were lowered enough to the point that it was cheaper than Steam sales to buy them, nobody is going to buy a used digital title. And as most people who've bought used know, the only stuff that ends up in the used market is shit people don't want to play.
So for all the fags supporting resale of digital games, enjoy sifting through 100000 postings trying to sell off Bad Rats and Chicken Shoot. Not to mention that the whole idea is retarded when Steam sales already drop the price to the cost of a sandwich, or piracy still exists.
>buying a used physical game
>box/game could be dirty/scratched
>missing manual or booklets
>some retard scribbled in the booklet / left his save file in there
>doesn't have that new game smell
>makes sense to resell at cheaper price than brand new
>buying a used digital download game
>literally identical to how it was when new
>no price difference
>make more money by reselling that one copy than the developer made by selling to you
Digital copyright is such a faggy faggy shithole slippery slope of retarded shit. Fuck anyone who complains about pirates. Fuck anyone who thinks digital infinitely copyable data bits should have monetary value. If computers were real life then this would be the equivalent of paying money to breathe.
>>321208648
>There is no such "right".
You are a fucking idiot, you know that right?
You do know what price gouging is right?
>>321208578
>the same price
this is where you fucked up
>used digital goods
>>321206169
see, here's the thing with digital EULA's
they dont mean shit
you can write anything you want, and its not a legal binding contract which requires a signature from you. despite how much sillycon valley wants to pretend their EULA's and "I agree" buttons are legally binding; in reality is they are not.
now one of the first lines in valves EULA states that steam is a subscription service.
fine that makes sense, but what the fuck is up with their real money market they hold within their subscription service? you cant pick and choose which items are worth real money and which arent.
furthermore, you cant pick and choose stupid worthless items like retarded fucking in-game hats and bullshit jpeg trading cards to be worth real money while the actual game itself is not worth anything once you purchase it. this is just morally unfair.
valve better get their shit together
when you pay money for something, you own it. no real EULA can say otherwise.
there is no proof that i agreed to anything, and you can even bypass the EULA all together and still operate their software
as an enduser, i see something with a price attached, and i purchase it under the fair assumption that i own the fucking product.
you are paying money for specific goods and they are being delivered after payment.
you can't really make up a bullshit contract which says otherwise.
>>321208485
What does GoG have.
Haven't we been reselling games for free since fucking always?
>>321208712
the consumer will pay what the market will bear
end of line
>>321208008
The potential quality of the product, this differs based on the product in question.
Lucky for us, digital has no reason to cost 60$ but it does anyway, so the video games industry has been able to continue existing for a while now. The huge increase in profits that digital has offered makes up for the increasing development costs, which in turn are due to the lower value of currency and the higher cost of labor/resources/taxes simply because of the garbage economy.
If you want consumer rights that strip away this profitability of digital goods, then you will see a scaling back on the resources spent to produce these goods.
Digital has also lowered the production costs of physical goods as well, it's why games require many more updates these days, than they did in 2006 for example. You're able to skimp on Q&A during the active dev cycle and you're able to print your disks and ship them at your own pace, which reduces costs (slower but cheaper shipping methods) as opposed to cramming as much polish as you can onto the disk and having to ship faster and under pressure.
>>321208826
>end of line
It's not the end of the line, you ass.
>>321208798
no DRM
you can copy the games you buy as much as you want to
>>321208798
no DRM
install your games on whatever computer you want as many times as you want
don't have to use client at all
I use it to buy older games without cheevos
>>321207201
Oh god what a cunt
THX poorfags for making videogame developers focus more on how to monetize more efficiently with the customer going to every extreme possible to disallow them monetary retribution for their product because they do not understand that it is not a phyisical entity.
Because of shit like this devs push more for "the experience" than for videogames. We get more games that require some sort of gate keeper so they can justiffy even developing the game.
>>321208712
>You do know what price gouging is right?
I know what it isn't: illegal.
You have every right to choose not to buy a product if you think it's too expensive. (this is a negative right, a good thing).
You do not have the right to forcefully coerce someone to give a product or service to you at any price you deem reasonable and he doesn't. (this would be a positive right, a bad thing)
>>321208264
Really? Watch me.
Do you have any fucking clue how many items are sold as 'one time sale' products, including the physical game itself? Just because you attach that to your EULA notes doesn't magically fucking make it so.
Do you know how many people sell steam accounts that have such things? Oh boy, looks like those jimmies surely got rustled.
Do you have any idea how many people resold Diablo 2 keys? Or any keys prior to steam?
Your country must raise nothing but mongoloids.
>>321208661
>Company Y sells digital washing machines in a country of 50 people.
>Sells 10, oooh things are looking great!
>Those 10 people sell their digital washing machines to 10 other people because they've completed it and don't find it fun anymore, and people buy it cos its digital and thereofore has no wear and tear
>Eventually everyone has played digitial washing machine
>Company Y has no money to make digital washing machine 2 cos they only sold 10 games instead of the 50 they wanted/expected to turn a profit
But i bet you wont even get the analogy will you
>>321207201
so still no fez 2, phill?
This seems a bit silly. The point of selling used physical copies is that the physical item you're selling is less likely to be in mint condition than the original, and is 'older' than a new copy. Digital copies don't degrade, bar someone making some kind of thing which degrades data over time.
If anything, people should be campaigning for decreased DRM on the games they purchase, or retaining physical copies of games, rather than the ability to resell them.
>>321207201
Piracy, en masse, has ALWAYS been primarily motivated by a perceived failure to provide a good or service for a reasonable price to the consumer. This reason is why piracy for music tanked drastic when iTunes took off, why television piracy tanked drastic when netflix took off. Stop shilling this false narrative that piracy hurts honest and consumer-minded companies.
>BAAAAWWW THE STATE HAS NO RIGHT TO INTERFERE WITH MUH FREE MARKET
>BUT IT TOTALLY MUST PROTECT THE ABILITY TO OWN IDEAS OR BUNCH OF NUMBERS
Libertarians "logic".
It's an interesting idea. But i have to wonder, why don't these groups go after PSN, Live and the Eshop? Seems like they're always gunning for Steam
>>321205582
You haven't been able to resell PC games for years, why are they suddenly so worried about Steam?
>>321209307
>consoles in france
kek
>>321209189
What is obsolescence?
>>321209189
>If anything, people should be campaigning for decreased DRM on the games they purchase, or retaining physical copies of games, rather than the ability to resell them.
this right here, but it will never happen since reselling through an online retailer means that the publishers are going to argue for double-dipping for every resale, and Steam doesn't want to share their profits
>>321208623
Games were expensive back then, and were a lot cheaper/quicker to develop. They made nice profits even though people resell, w/e, (BUT they could have still benefitted more from that lost extra revenue)
Games are -just as expensive- now, maybe a little more expensive (sonic2 used to retail at fucking $50+ you know). But the cost of development has SKYROCKETTED, and the existance of piracy being much more easily and widely accessible means every game needs have very strict feasability studies on it just to fucking work out if it will make a loss or not and therefore worth going ahead with
Enjoy your fuckall new IPs
>>321205582
>Steam users should be allowed to resell games.
Well, I've got plenty of games I bought and never played. I'd like to get rid of them.
>>321209382
Even terrorists use them
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11997976/Paris-attacks-Terrorists-could-have-used-PlayStation4-to-plot.html
>>321209382
Why not, I heard Bin Laden was using PS2's for some stuff, so surely France is as well.
>>321206757
>France forces valve to allow the reselling of games
>Developers start making gmaes that have features that diminish over time
>Want a game with all features? Buy the FRESH one, not the used ones. You're not entitled to buy fresh fruit if it's used.
>>321209307
>why don't these groups go after PSN, Live and the Eshop?
because consoles are children's toys
>>321209004
Wow it's almost like...
Making a product that someone will only get a few days use (40 hours) out of and expecting it not to be resold is a stupid idea
People reselling something they've used up and wastes space is a bad idea.
All that packaging and shit the industry wastes and they expect it to rot in someone's house or a landfill, please god never resell it, oh no.
Game companies are so disgustingly fucking gross when it comes to economic responsibility that they all should be fucking shot in the head even if the games industry suffers for it.
If you want to violate rights like the right of first sale, you better damn well make that option somehow more attractive to the costumer. Most people don't resell and thus don't care as much, on PC digital is quickly becoming the only way to obtain a copy. Add restrictions to it alone and you have a problem, you build a dichotomy, and this causes problems when your entire payment scheme is based around them being equal.
>>321209484
WOW, YOU FUCKING EVIL OF YOU. YOU WANT TO RUIN STEAM AND YOU WANT TO RUIN THE GAMING INDUSTRY. DON'T YOU KNOW THAT WE SHOULD OBEY GABE AND GIVE HIM AS MUCH MONEY POSSIBLE?
>>321209484
>never played
see, this is where I say, "OK, let me at least gift it to someone, I haven't even played it."
>>321205582
Instead of campaigning for reselling digital goods, we should be campaigning for cheaper digital goods. There's no reason why a digital game should cost the same as a physical game.
>>321209546
>Developers start making gmaes that have features that diminish over time
they've been doing this for two gens already
>>321208467
"without your consent", meaning you didn't put them yourself here.
It's not about the right to take a picture, it's about what you do with them.
Memes are a good example. If I ever appeared in a meme, I should have the right to ask for this meme to be erased from the internet. Which is probably impossible to do.
>>321209559
>OMGGG PACKAGING! ROT! WASTE
You are fucking aware this thread is about digital games right? And my analogy was about digital washing machines right?
and if companies did account for only selling a tiny amount because people would just resell, they'd make that initial consumer price WAY higher to cover the cost of production, making it shittier for consumers. Well done, your shitty retard way of thinking just screwed even the inital buyers over
>>321209703
>There's no reason why a digital game should cost the same as a physical game
They're not the same
I haven't bought a $60 game for PC ever
>>321206965
>read the EULA sometimes
seems like you haven't since 2009
>>321209739
No, they've been making incomplete games and selling you the parts as extras.
What I described would be a completely new type of cancer. Unless I'm wrong, give me an example of a game that has features removed over time.
>>321209839
>If I ever appeared in a meme, I should have the right to ask for this meme to be erased from the internet.
lol
imagine if this were actually possible
Also, the "Right to be forgotten" law has nothing to do with pictures, it has to do with politicians getting arrested/embarrassed in public and not wanting their PUBLIC records or the media reporting about it to be found.
>>321208712
As much as I hate that he's right, he's right and you're wrong, it's legal and not a 'right'.
At least in our capitalist society, see the other thing however is that every game creates for itself a monopoly, this is why you typically don't see games direclty opposite each other, it's very expensive and easier to build a slight niche into your game and keep it that way to ensure something that can have a sequel made to it.
If you removed the niche I could go somewhere else to get what I want "X type of game" and this capitalist idea of 'the market price is right or people wouldn't pay it!' would be correct, but in monopolies that goes out the window just like ISP prices, they're ridiculous and prices constantly go up along with more restricted features, but since many of them have monopoly in huge areas this won't hinder their marketplace greatly.
>be valve
>make a quake mod
>make a sequel to quake mod using third party physics engine
>make a gorillion dollars a year by setting up an online service where people can buy games
>still no half life 3
>"p-pirates guys, a-and game development costs..."
>>321209484
Because you are a moron who impulse buys. You deserve to lose your money.
>>321210068
You are aware they don't fucking HAVE to make HL3 right? Wish people would just stop having a boner for half life, it wasnt even that good
>>321208208
This. Guaranteeing that the consumer isn't being fucked over will obviously need some resources to become a reality, but every single governing body with a brain has realized that people enjoy being treated like people, rather than money shitting robots.
Complaining about people wanting basic protections won't make muh trippul a gaems worse. Their biggest problem is finding the most feng shui spot for their money fort.
It might hit indie games a little, but if you haven't already gone under from people refunding your worthless garbage with a cutesy name, reselling won't kill you either.
If Steam implements reselling it will be tied in to the community market. Since the games have "value" like keys do, you're probably going to see a lot of Undertale for $9.99. The devs are probably going to get to dictate their share, too.
>>321209189
>This is the point of selling
No this is the point why they didn't CARE that they sold
Are you guys fucking CEOs? you can't even reason to why a normal person would sell something?
The reason I sell a 40hour RPG is because I've played all fucking 40 hours of it and I don't need it anymore, short of wanting to keep it as a trophy of sorts there is no reason NOT to resell it, it's profit for me, and I've already gotten everything I want out of the game.
>>321209941
>give me an example of a game that has features removed over time.
Many games no longer have multiplayer servers, even though millions of people are paying for them via PSN and xbonelive
>>321209307
This. Key Resellers like G2A, Cdkeys, Kinguin, and there are many secondary markets you can get cheaper steam keys legally. It's just that everybody treats those sites like shit despite the fact they did nothing wrong.
Consoles becoming digital is a bigger problem imo because they have full control the price of their digital games. Which means that Consoles can reach Apple/Nintendo levels of control freak.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-said-no-to-ps4-ea-access-program-because-its-/1100-6421390/
>>321209851
>Sarcastic ad hominem
>There aren't several ways to make buying the initial game more desirable to the player
>They haven't been doing this for years
Nice one.
>>321209883
Because you wait for sales, but there are still times were a digital game and a physical game for the PC are the same price.
I also don't mean just PC, but games across all consoles.
>>321210342
>reselling won't kill you either.
You just don't understand do you? Reselling. A. Fucking. digital. Game.
Why would people NOT buy a used copy? its 100% perfect, guaranteed and 100% the same as new. This would affect indies and non-indies severely
>>321210424
And that's not an example at all. The resale of those games wouldn't give the buyer anything different from buying a new game off a store instead.
>>321205904
GOOD GOY
O
O
D
G
O
Y
>>321210595
>There aren't several ways to make buying the initial game more desirable to the player
it fucking costs money and time to do this. literally. are you a fucking retard
>this thread
I can't tell who the kikes are from the goys anymore.
How can you honestly be against the right to sell something you bought?
>>321210614
>its 100% perfect, guaranteed and 100% the same as new.
yeah just like a boxed game, even if it comes with a disk instead of a steam installer it's still a bunch of bytes that don't change, used or not
>>321206965
But EULA aren't binding outside of the US. In Sweden they're non-legal because no one actually reads them.
>>321210282
Nice.
>£24.36
£25 is usually my limit for general games buying so that's pretty accurate. I'll make exceptions for games that I really want and want to support the dev on.
>>321210880
>How can you honestly be against the right to sell something you bought?
how about you read the fucking thread and not be a thick fucking retard mongoloid about it? there's plenty of reasons
>>321209703
Which is the main problem with this argument here.
They want to treat digital goods the same as physical goods. Digital goods cost to PRODUCE is almost 0, you don't pay for creation of the cd or any packaging, fuel (THE BIG ONE), or rack space. The rack space alone is about the same cost as server space for digital copies. Fuels is over 5 times the cost of the rest of that, but there are no savings passed on.
Why? Because it would kill physical copies if you dropped the $10~ cost saved per game (Most of the cost is overhead), everyone except people who want tropies would go to digital copies, more this happens the more physical copies raise in price because not as many are sent per shipment, eventually becoming untenable and prices slowly rise up to ridiculous amounts.
>>321206965
>>321209894
EULA can't waive rights, especially with a physical copy, digital rights have been in grey areas for shit like this forever.
Based France.
>>321210978
Monkey Island was ahead of it's time, truly.
>>321210345
I'll admit I'm an idiot.
>>321207504
This desu. Consumers, no matter if it's games or food or electronics, are fucking tools and should be fucked over like tools.
t.proud producer.
>>321210880
>you bought
this is where you fucked up
you didn't buy anything
you spent money to use a non-transferable license
>Buy game
>Don't like it, too late for refund because shitty refund rules
>Put game on market
>Forced to be 25% of the value you paid
>Gifted games can't be sold
All they'd have to do for it to be fair.
>>321208023
They are you nigger. You can't explain their difference.
>>321210934
>yeah just like a boxed game, even if it comes with a disk instead of a steam installer it's still a bunch of bytes that don't change, used or not
Except it's not. The box isn't always 100%, you have to either go out and get it or get it posted. You cant just 1 click and play it immediately. Even so, I still dont agree with buying 2nd hand physical games either, but it is more acceptable since they are slightly vulnerable to wear/tear and people are fussy enough over that that they'd buy a new copy for their shelf
>>321210880
Peope who know products will become worse if the digital versions can be esod
>Implementing loss of features on existing copies so the used market is worse quality
>Restricting number of instalations
>Every game becomes F2P with 99% of the content paid for
>Register-enforced user accounts for every single thing, with mobile validatin
These are all things I'd do right away if I were a vidya studio being told my games can be resold.
>>321211018
>Why? Because it would kill physical copies if you dropped the $10~ cost saved per game
You'd be surprised how much the "I only own it if it's physical" mentality is in a lot of people. I don't think it would impact physical to the point where physical copies of games becomes unsustainable.
>>321210794
>Do it once
>apply it to every game
What is DLC?
Based on how much companies find more ways to gouge you these days you act like they can't fucking do this and fucking won't anyway.
What the fuck do you think DRM is? Half of it is fucking illegal but they still use it for fucking YEARS after the fact.
They still use it now FOR THIS SAME PURPOSE except more strictly, and guess what. It doesn't fucking work? Do they still pay companies for DRM as well as waste time implementing more? Yes. Does it work? Fuck no.
Show me a game that hasn't had it's DRM cracked and I'll show you a fucking liar. The longest it's taken hasn't been over a month for any game in the last 5 years at LEAST.
>>321210934
The CD can be scratched actually, thus causing the problem.
To be honest, it's legal in EU to resell physical media. I don't know anything about licenses, but since valve aren't based in EU, they don't really have to follow EU laws that much.
This will literally amount to nothing.
Who gives two shits about what the french say about anything?
Remember last year when valve was "sued" by another impotent european communist group? Absolutely nothing came of it.
Valve is a MULTI BILLION dollar company, with a suit of lawyers on retainer.
A french consumer rights group isnt going to do anything.
>>321210614
Shitposter please, read the rest of it. If the game isn't confirmed worthless, it would only be a cent less from other players.
If your lack of effort for money didn't kill you before, it won't now.
But you're just an indie "dev" looking for some easy money before we force you to be professional again, aren't you?
That's what I thought.
>>321206403
Is that a joke?
Try selling meth to your local thrift store.
Fucking retard.
>>321211293
>I don't want my consumer rights because I'm scared.
if they do that, the market will respond and they won't buy it. That's how shit works.
>>321211230
>Forced to be 25% of the value you paid
>Forced to be 25% of the value you paid
>Forced to be 25% of the value you paid>
>Forced to be 25% of the value you paid>
>Having the illusion that this is now 'fair'
How is undercutting a competing developer by 75% fucking fair? Are you an absolute moron? You've absolutely proved you have no further way of thinking than just being concerned about how much money is in your own shitty spiderman wallet and how many times you wet the bed last night
>>321210960
There are EULAs for every country, and just because they aren't read, doesn't mean they aren't binding
>>321211532
They would buy it because they buy literally anything.
>>321208028
>>321208387
>>321208023
>>321208720
No, that's fucking stupid. That's like begging for the right to resale songs you bought off iTunes. It would literally be identical to a brand new copy, and still use Valve's servers and pubs IPs while they get no money out of it. Try doing this shit to Apple and people will laugh at you. The French are retarded.
>>321207504
Unless France takes the matter to an European level, with a EU law. This shit will probably not happen, but I guess they can squeeze some money from Valve to get an agreement.
>tfw it's part of Ubisoft plan to take over Steam with Uplay
>>321211293
>1910s
GOD YOU CAN'T ALLOW MEAT INSPECTIONS
IF YOU DO, THEN THE MEAT MARKET WILL COLLAPSE OR PRICES WILL BE RAISED 120% AND WE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO EAT.
>>321211540
>competing developer
how is "a person" in any way "a competing developer" and why should they give a fuck
>caring about whether or not a new game has a ridiculously high budget
>implying it won't end up with awful gameplay and mediocre graphics anyway
No matter if this UFC-Que Choisir group is right or wrong, their demand will never be granted.
>I buy game A
>game A is singleplayer only
>my friend wants game A
>I beat it and sell it to him for small price or "sell" it for 1 penny
>dev gets nothing
There would be online services dedicated to "exchanging digital games" where you could sell your stuff and someone could buy it for 1/10 it's original price.
This is fucking unthinkable and if you think volvo or anyone else would allow it then you're fucking delusional. It doesn't matter if it's the right way or wrong one - this riddiculous idea will never see the daylight.
>>321209189
no you fucking autist, the point of selling used copies is to get some money back for something you no longer want
>>321211729
It looks ridiculous at first because we have low standards. But are you seriously asking for it to remain ok that you can sink money into stuff for it not to become yours? A digital game is a property, not a service. Well, it certainly should be.
>>321211723
>comparing sanddollars to actual money
>>321211723
valve isn't the one who decides the prices
also all this would do is fuck over devs, not valve
if gamestop is allowed to give you store credit, you damn know that valve will give you valvebucks
so enjoy freemium games, because we'll be getting a lot more of those
>>321206291
Developers would be forced to make great games that no one would ever want to resell. Abolish IP and licenses, let the free market sort it out without statists trying to enforce analogue property laws in the digital age
>>321208450
>Buy game
>People tell me I just bought a license
>I'm not allowed to sell it, it doesn't depreciate
>Disc breaks
>Ask for a replacement because I bought a license and not the game, the disc is just a delivery method
>NO FUCK YOU YOU ENTITLED SHIT BUY THE GAME AGAIN
Love this logic.
>>321211501
>it would only be a cent less from other players.
except this would happen A LOT, and shit adds up you fucking retard.
>>321211528
That's because it's illegal... Your shitty retard analogy doesn't apply to selling games because 1) it's not illegal, 2) thrift shops dont profit from meth, although if you sold it to a meth dealer, he would 3) steam has their service and has its policies outlined and its all digital, its not physical and if it was, they wouldn't be able to stop people from physically trading their games for money
>>321211840
>Comparing physical articles to digital
Is that your argument for everything?
>>321211230
>FORCED PRICING
KEK, that literally just makes the problem worse, jesus christ.
>>321208720
Are you an idiot? Games currently DO cost the same price digital and physical typically, $60 for both on release.
Physical purchaser:
Get to store (Slight gas price)->Pay $60+tax->Play game 40 hours> Resell for $1~10
Digital puchaser:
Pay $60+tax->Play game 40 hours->0 dollars made
Physical guy just saved $1~10 by reselling.
>>321211372
You underestimate how much money is saved by having more games on trucks and how many stores they have to send to, it won't get absolutely crazy fast don't get me wrong, but a $10 difference per game means a free game every 6 games, if you buy a game a month that's 2 free ones a year for digital over physical players.
>>321211575
Actually EULAs should be non-binding because it's not upfront. The purchase already been made before it is presented. That's like buying a car but the seller saying he can take it back any time he wants after you've paid for it.
I have an idea of how resale could work for everyone.
The seller is forced to sell the license for full market value.
The developers/prodcuers get 33%
Valve gets 33%
The seller gets 33%.
Giving devs a cut of used lisence transfers is the only way to make it work.
People who think they should be able to sell a license for full price and get 100% of the proceeds are retards who have no idea how E-conomics works
>>321211951
>you can sink money into stuff for it not to become yours?
uh, people do this all the time - its called netflix and cable TV and lots of other services
>digital game is a property, not a service
nope, in this case it's a service provided by Steam to grant you access to games
>>321211974
Nice rebuttal. I have credit cards in a few currencies, which one do you worship?
>>321209546
>Developers start making gmaes that have features that diminish over time
This is illegal in the EU.
>>321211860
Developer is selling at 100% price.
John mc. Faggot is selling at 25% price.
Both exact same products.
They are competitors.
John is massively undercutting developer, and the developer will lose a sale, because any potential customer would obviously buy from john
>>321211927
I know, I already addressed this:
>>321211148
>>321212064
>Developers would be forced to make great games that no one would ever want to resell
>GAMES SHOULD HAVE 100YEARS WORTH OF GAMEPLAY AND BE ABSOLUTELY PERFECT FOR MY NEEDS
christ. you fucking make a game then. You sound like a fucking child
>>321212120
>doesn't understand that said license is bound to a single purchase and destruction of media voids license
>>321212340
So was limiting installations, but SecureROM still happened, still broke several CD trays.
>>321211896
But...why not? Why would you not be able to give your friend a game you bought?
Steam would have to make an exchanging digital platform as you said, and if they choose for example to take 10% from any transaction, maybe it would not be so bad for them.
>>321209292
retard "education"
>The Libertarian Party of Canada takes "a moderate approach to patents and copyrights", calling for "a careful review of existing and proposed legislation".[1]
>Murray Rothbard argues for allowing contractually arising infinite copyright terms and against the need for any government role in protecting intellectual property.[2]
>Roderick T. Long argues that the concept of intellectual property is not libertarian.
Pirate all digital content. Never pay for infinitely freely copyable bits of data that must be stored on your harddrive to utilize.
Thats like paying to look at a jpeg image of a single-copy painting in a museum. Dont even try to defend paying for that; it's retarded.
>>321212496
So we're full fucking circle aren't we.
>>321205582
>France
I hope Isis takes over Europe, the fancy fucks have been literally irrelevant to the world and their dirty money schemes disguised as "socialism" has done more to fuck me.
It it had not been for Eurocuk policies I could still buy cheap games from Russians in exchange for tf2 keys.
>>321211998
Making a case for reselling games is not making a case against valve. In the OP's example, it names Valve, but this carries implications for all digital distribution. That's the way I'm looking at it, anyway. I'm not an expert on this though. But I think this will go places, even if not right now. That thing where you supposedly don;t own any digital games you buy (on steam only?) but only buy "licences" is a brewing shitstorm and will not ride out another decade.
>>321212227
>Games currently DO cost the same price digital and physical typically, $60 for both on release.
if you can't even be bothered to find a cheaper copy, or wait until after release, or in any way strive to save your money, you don't deserve it in the first place
You could buy Fallout 4 20% off pre-ordered, so don't give me that shit about same price, you're wrong
But I don't want to resell them, I want to be free to exchange them.
>>321212120
2 flaws:
1) You KNOW what you're about to buy, if you don't then you deserve any consequence you get for being a retard. If you don't want to buy a licence, go out and buy a physical copy
2) Digital licensed games... You can get as many copies as you want even when your.. harddrive fails
man just what the fuck are you talking about
>>321205790
You can't sell a license.
>>321212620
No, it's like paying to see a movie if anything.
If buying games is so strenuous on your budget, maybe you should work on not being poor?
Videogames are a luxury resource.
>>321212586
>sell game to friend for 3 cent
>valve gets their 10% cut
>still have to host the game download when the friend downloads it to his computer
>You have now lost money just on the fucking electricity it took to download the game to friend b's computer.
>>321212295
>it's not upfront
it's literally the first thing you have to agree to before you install a game
>>321208623
>The gaming industry was way better back when we were able to sell our games
Please do post an specific date, because I think you are reddit retarded.
>>321206291
>>WAHH I WANT EVERYTHING FOR FREE
Internet Golden Rule #10
Know your audience.
You are talking to neets already piggybacked by a socialist benefits, of course they want EVERYTHING free. These are the people who should truly kill themselves.
>>321212749
You can "want" with all your might. Nobody gives a fuck because dev would lose money.
>>321208798
>>321208935
>>321208925
Don't forget they have the optional Galaxy platform now, too.
You can also use Galaxy to download the installers, or save the installers after installing the game from the client, so you can copy it.
(Installers downloaded using Galaxy are just like the ones on the site itself; they don't need the client to install or play)
>>321212901
Nice reading comprehension m8.
Fuck France. They ruined Europe with the bullshit enlightenment and french revolution, they ruined the West with sexual revolution and now they're ruining gaming.
>>321212735
This. Lawmakers have been fucking slow on the matter, allowing companies like Apple and Valve to milk the shit out of consumers. This will probably change in a decade, we'll see in which direction...
>>321212357
>Developer is selling at 100% price.
no, the publisher is
the developer got paid already
also, if they can't compete, they don't deserve to be in business
>>321212978
>socialist benefits
I'm a staunch conservative. How is allowed the public to fucking sell what they want "socialist".
>>321212307
Probably one of the most insidious things the capital market has created is selling products as services though. Those are actually legitimate services to access other products, whereas these guys made a product, put it behind a CD and said "This is a SERVICE for you to be able to USE my PRODUCT" and then put limits on it like "If you break it we wont' replace it "
>>321212739
In 90%+ cases it is the same price.
There are sales to be found no matter what, especially on PC if you care you can find someone who buys russian versions and resells, same exact product but is usually cheaper, I have a friend who makes decent money doing this.
If you really wanted to save your money 'in ANY WAY' you would either pirate or wait a year for it to be $10-20
>look at this
>look at my account
>247 games
>would keep only 5 or 6
Oh mang.
>>321213070
Duh.
>>321212123
>and shit adds up you fucking retard
If an indie is able to go under from a loss of ONE CENT PER SALE, their game probably already died because the millions of free suckers they were thinking about turned out to be a few thousand instead. A bigger company literally won't fail from this because the money castle only needed a new door instead of needing to be rebuilt entirely this season.
>>321211528
Analogy of the Year.
>It's an Americans don't think people are entitled to refunds thread
Oh boy can't wait
>>321211951
Yes because it's not a physical objects. Like I said, it would be retarded for you to be allowed to resell an iTunes song, which is precisely why I pirate all of my music unless I'm buying LPs or CDs. When you're buying something digitally, your purchasing for access to it, not the actual data itself, that belongs to the copywrite owners. Imagine if you could resell any data you bought, Windows would have thousands of Chinese bootlegs with spyware and pirates would literally crack and sell games without fear of prosecution. It would JUST the entire industry up.
>>321212978
"Waah everyone on 4chan doesn't have a job"
>Said in a way that implies he does but other people don't.
Are you people seriously this fucking disillusion?
"4chan doesn't agree with me, those people who don't must just be X!"
>>321212643
not really
this doesn't have to do with Steam, or consumers, or France; it has to do with the rules that publishers and other media conglomerates have set for use of their products (IPs)
but lets not talk about that, since knocking Steam is trendy and useful somehow
>>321212901
Upfront means before you buy the game.
And technically, if you do buy a game and cannot install it because you disagree with it's EULA, you should be entitled to a full refund no questions asked.
>>321207583
>french consumers
Muhammad only buys 12 year old girls to fuck.
>>321207962
>When you grow up you'll realize there is no such thing as a free lunch and there never will be.
I know /v/ is full of literal retards, libtards who would unironically vote for Bernie Sanders, Neets, and people who wave "muh consumer rights" flag if it meant the opportunity to scrap feces of the floor to sustain themselves, but then there are people of you fighting the good fight.
God Bless You.
And God Bless the United States of America.
>>321213252
>It's a Europeans who don't understand basic economics thread
What else is new?
There's a reason the EU is in the fucking gutter, and the AMERICAN DOLLAR is still incredibly strong despite our country being 100 quadrillion dollars in debt.
Europeans just don't understand how money works.
>>321213085
and you're still wrong
you have to agree to terms and conditions before you even pay for a digital game
No digital distributor allows reselling of games.
Why isn't France suing PSN or XBLA or Eshop.
>>321212898
Then they could put a "download" cost. You give the game for free to your friend, he has to pay 1€ to download it.
>>321212807
>paying to watch movies
>paying to sit down and stop enjoying life for 2-3 hours while some faggots in makeup and stupid costumes lie about stuff that never happened so these same faggots can afford to continue living their lives in luxury for doing completely worthless things
They should be paying you for watching the movie, you know that right? they want to offload product placement while glorifying actors (paid liars) and expect you to pay?
cuckoldry.
You know how sales got shittier after refunds were introduces.
Well if we get the ability to sell our steam games, enjoy NO FUCKING SALES EVER. We'd be lucky to get 20% off.
>>321211723
>comparing USD to sandmoney
Moron
>>321213179
>ONE CENT PER SALE
You're taking it to the extreme though. Thats like me trying to justify piracy as a whole just by saying "It's fine, only 1 person in the world will piriate the game". What you're talking about is an actual, real, measurable, percentage loss to the developer. Even if it's only minor such as 'we lost 5% revenue this fiscal year, we must make it back/make a cutback in a particular budget/charge more next time', shit has real, actual consequences you fucking retard
>>321212307
>uh
>nope,
Nah senpai I'm buying a game, not a full body massage. We need this to change, because it's bullshit.
If resealing of games goes live on steam you can say good buy to single player games on PC on steam forever.
It will literally allow 10 people to buy the same SP game and pass it arund like a Cheap whore.
>>321213516
*were introduced?
>>321213505
I find it hard to believe people can be so jaded and bitter, but then I remember I'm on 4chan.
Please kill yourself with a shotgun, you miserable fuck.
>there's no real difference between physical disks and downloadable games.
one of them is a real plastic disk.
it seems like this is a failure to comprehend finite vs. infinite supply.
perhaps this is actually a statement on artificially finite digital games, you know, games you can't buy anymore due to non-technological reasons
>>321213157
>legitimate services
opinion discarded
also, if its on a CD, its not a "digital product" no matter what you think about the definition of these words
>you would either pirate or wait a year for it to be $10-20
this is what actually savvy consumers do
you want to be an early adopter?
you pay for it.
>>321213449
>you have to agree to terms and conditions before you even pay for a digital game
Except that you don't.
>>321212357
Yes, and the market will somehow allow John to keep undercutting by 75% continuously, and subsist. Come on, pal, you know this not to be true.
>>321213350
>what are terms and conditions
you check a box before you purchase any digital product
if you don't read it that's your own lookout
>>321213434
Bob and Charles pay thousands to go to some remote area in thailand and brazil to fuck little girls and come back to their ranch to watch their wives get fucked by horse dick.
>>321213693
>pays to cuck himself
>calls others miserable for not paying to cuck themselves
good goy
>>321212494
He could. Anyone could. Certainly by today's standards.
>>321213070
You must admit that it would be much less harmful than reselling, though.
>>321212064
>Developers would be forced to make great games that no one would ever want to resell
>muh idealism
You are literally retarded, that argument is a petty excuse for thievery in every sense.
>The game was not good enough, so I am entitled to steal it, pirate it, buy cheap and resell it because it was a 9 / 10 but if it had been a 10 / 10 to my subjective standards.
How about you get a job you fucking piece of shit, I hope we can deport shit like you to Mexico, living with spics ought to teach you what it is like to live in a savage society with no free handouts for a change.
This is what society needs, deport anyone who is not working, studying STEM related careers or in the military to shitholes so they can appreciate what they got. I swear that what went wrong with today's kids is that you little fancy faggots were never conscripted.
Just nah france. I don't want assholes bothering me to buy their shit games. If you let people sell digital games they'll just fuck it up and turn it shady.
>>321213437
The Euro is stronger than the American Dollar. And always has been.
>>321213785
this thread is about Steam
and through Steam, every purchase you make is bound by Terms and Conditions which you MUST agree to before completing your transaction
>>321213819
Of course John can't resell it again, but Mike. Dichead who he sold it to will. And countless other Johns who bought the game. Are you a literal fuckling actual mongoloid? because come on... i mean fucking come on, you cannot be this stupid
>>321213879
And yet they can nuke you sorry muslim nesting grounds any day of the week.
France is a joke.
Get back to me when your country stop being such a fucking shithole.
>>321213897
Are you seriously a retard?
Please stop memeposting, and just end yourself already. The world will be a much better place for it
>>321213846
Sure, but I was talking about physical copies clearly.
>>321213343
Digital games are priced where they are despite so that they don't compete with the price of physical games
A)Money saved from shipment
B)Not being able to be resold
Thus, when limits imposed on physical copies change this changes everything to do with that market directly (In this case market being the specific game).
If a digital copy survives my physical copy in cases of destruction of my property (Let's so computer and room just happen to get into accident, fire or something) the digital copy now holds more value comparatively.
This isn't a tough concept to get and is extremely simple. The point is this, digital copies hold many benefits over physical copies, in most cases their prices should be lower due to these benefits but they are not because these companies are scared of competition in the prices so turning any savings to one side (Digital/Physical) is a no.
>>321214104
even physical copies of CDs often come with licensing restrictions printed on the insert
>>321212357
dev sold me a produc
i sold the product
done.
>>321214074
You are a slave and you're calling me the retard?
lol
