Let's discuss horror games, what some things did right, what they might have done wrong, and other things.
Starting questions are: what were some of the best mechanics you've seen in a horror game? What are the worst?
Best: Checkpoints/limited saves
Worst: Quicksaves
You can never have a scary game without the fear of failure.
>>321098417
Dismemberment in Dead Space. Too bad in 3 it was about how hight the rate of fire of the weapon was rather than how much damage it takes to cut off the legs of the necromorph.
>That Alien save system
das it mane
>>321098685
It depends on the type really, FEAR managed to be an effective horror game despite having quick saves and the ability to save whenever yet Amnesia aMfP was heavily hurt by the fact there was no punishment for failure
>>321098417
What game?
>>321098909
>FEAR managed to be an effective horror game
FEAR was a fun shoot em up game with some neat TECHNOLOGY moments
I can't say I was ever scared by it though, with maybe the exception of that amateurish ladder jump scare.
>>321098973
Soma. I think. From the people who did Amnesia.
>>321098909
Fear was better as a shooter
>>321098739
Hm, this actually brings another question to mind: how powerful should the player character be versus their enemies?
I mean, in my mind, I've been toying with the idea of a horror game starring a PC who is basically a Navy SEAL or just some other certified badass by other FPS standards...
Except everything in the game is immune any sort of damage (and the rare few that are not will just come back later) and running is difficult when things like ghosts will teleport around or fly, effectively making your parkour skills pointless.
The primal fear of a predator, like in Alien: Isolation, is my kind of fear.
Also SOMA did psychological existential horror pretty damn right.
>>321098973
I bet on The Secret World.
>>321098973
>>321099180
The Secret Woirld, actually.
>>321099163
The atmosphere was pretty spooky at places and while never as scary as a proper horror game it did exactly what it aimed to do.
For me, it helps to establish the monster or whatever is a serious threat before trying to be scary. Have it kick my shit in first, then lay in the spookiness.
>>321099998
Wouldn't it be better to let it kick someone else's shit in first? I mean presumably, once it kicks the player's shit in, shouldn't it basically all be over?
>>321098909
FEAR was a terrible horror game dude.
>>321100271
Not 100% kicked in. Enough to get you to know that it can kill you.
>>321098417
>Map is a whole city. Stalker mode but some buildings are really tall.
>One life in hardcore mode or very limited saves.
>Some monsters you can kill them.
>Most monsters are really hard, not worth it and will fuck you up.
>Some unkillable monsters
>Online players can invade your world and control one NPCs (with limited movesets)
>You won't know which NPC is an AI.
>Other players can leave notes or traps that will lead monsters to you.
>Some players will occasionally join your world as non-hostile pcs. But you can only interact with them through a limited set of available sentences. Bro-oping is a good idea as you have a greater chance of escaping.
>Almost no jumpscares, but some of the creatures act spooky as fuck. As in they go stealth mode until they're on your back and then give you a lovely hug, or remain quiet until you get close enough or simply yell and charge or fuck with your mind by provoking creepy events.
>Random events that indicate that shit is about to go down.
>Pictures changing faces or moving, poltergeists, eerie sounds or monsters suddenly flashing before you. Things that will make you paranoid as fuck.
>If a player died near where you are you will see his ghost. No bloodstain like in DaS, you will just see it. Some of these ghosts will turn hostile.
>Days are scary, nights are FUCKFUCKFUCKOHSHITFUCK.
>When night comes, don't go out in the open.
The main objective of the game is to survive and discover how to stop this evil and where to go.
It would be basically Evil Dead 2: the game.
Silent Hill is pretty hard to beat so far as atmosphere goes, due to the environments, lighting, and sound. The enemies themselves are actually pretty tame in comparison, and combat is rarely all that tense.
Siren did a pretty good job of making the player feel vulnerable, and the way the game's gimmick interacted with stealth-focused objectives was fun and interesting. There's nothing quite like trying to figure out where an enemy is headed, only to suddenly see your character at the edge of its vision. It's a shame the game was ruined by the bullshit hidden objectives that essentially mandate the use of a walkthrough.
Haunting Ground had a lot of good ideas that it executed better than Clock Tower, though it was still lacking in some respects. The need to keep a low profile while exploring because the entity stalking you might be close by was great for ratcheting up the tension...until you grow more accustomed to the game and realize just how small of a threat the stalkers actually pose. I think evading a pursuer could also be made more interesting than "run for a while until you gain some distance then enter a pre-designated hiding spot."
I like how Fatal Frame's combat helps keep up the tension: you ideally want the ghosts to get right up next to you and start launching an attack before hitting them, rather than sniping them from a distance. The unpredictability of some elements in the games helps too: the wandering ghosts you may or may not run into, certain small events that may or may not trigger during a particular playthrough, etc.
>>321102526
>bullshit hidden objectives that essentially mandate the use of a walkthrough.
Well... How bullshit we talking here?
>Fatal Frame
Oh, jesus, yes. It's like the developers knew the best way to make a player piss themselves was to force them to stare right in the face of what you wanted to run from.
Though I felt like that could actually take some of the fear away after awhile.
>>321102346
You know, I was playing with a similar idea in my head earlier for something Lovecraft inspired.
>Open world Sandbox
>Lots of tension building
>There are non-hostile NPCs but they don't seem able to even see the monsters coming for you
>Or they might turn out to be a cultist who also wants you dead
>Or might even be a normal person who REALLY thinks you need to be locked up before you hurt someone or yourself
>Sanity dwindles throughout the game, none of this hard meter stuff you can replenish
>As the game progresses, pictures change, NPC behavior becomes more sinister, spooky shit becomes more and more common (though sometimes it goes back to normal)
>The moon seems to be staring at you.
>>321098685
No.
redoing a part if you fail sullies the scare and slows down momentum.
>>321099270
I often find that a lot of "horror" games stop being spooky when you get a gun of some sort. Beccause ammo is too plentiful and they die too easily that htey stop being a threat.
To really rustle players how about giving them a gun but no ammo in the entire game?
>>321103819
How about
>You fuck up
>Spooky ghost eats you
>You're instantly droppedback where you "died"
>No death
>No ill effects
>Spoopy ghost nowhere to be seen
>Only at the end/big reveal/whatever do the consequences for being eated by a ghost come back to haunt you.
Could work, could be really gimmicky though.
>>321098909
>FEAR
>Horror
I hate this meme.
>Well... How bullshit we talking here?
Very, unfortunately. The game has a large number of hidden objectives scattered through the levels. At no point are you made aware that these objectives even exist, but if you fail to fulfill them you will get thrown back to the beginning of the game after a certain point so you can try again.
An example: one of these objectives involves going to a remote section of the map, gathering a radio, throwing it down a well, waiting for the noise of the radio to attract an enemy, then shooting it so that it falls down the well. There is no indication anywhere that this needs to be done, and it is required in order to complete the game.
That's just one of many such objectives. I have no idea what the developers were thinking. It's a shame, because without that nonsense Siren would be a great horror game.
>>321103859
Well, as I mentioned in that post, the idea is that, yes, you have a gun. But it does jack shit and just takes up space in your inventory.Maybe as a cruel twist, through exploration, a lot of puzzle solving, and such, you CAN make a limited amount of ammo that will end up hurting them and armor that does protectBut usually by that time, it's expected the player will have long since discarded their useless military items that actually would slow you down.
>>321104412
Meant as a reply to:
>>321103502
I think Fatal Frame 1-3 are my favorite horror games overall. I don't think they quite match up favorably to Silent Hill in terms of atmoshphere, but the enemies in Fatal Frame are much more interesting and unnerving.
>>321103502
Sounds good. With some planning and cool monsters it would be awesome.
>Chased by some unspeakable horror, can't even turn back or you're dead.
>Find cabin innawoods
>Close the door
>tries to break in through glass/wall/door
>Go to the basement and lock the trap door.
>After a while sound stops but too spooked to go out because it could be waiting outside.
>Explore the place a bit. Use torch item.
>Torch light sometimes flickers a bit. Did it really happen?
>hear sound coming from behind, but see nothing.
>find dead npc at the end of the corridor.
>torch flickers like it's fucking alive.
>Go and get his items.
>Torch lights goes out
>When you lit it again it isn't there.
>Hear some inhuman sounds
>Stalker-type Monster is now after you. It will be silent until you see it, then it will roar like hell and run until it gets you.
>>321102346
>>321098843
Isolation, you mean? If so, I agree
>>321105581
What many games need instead of spooky spooks is atmosphere. Those subtle things that won't make you scream but that will build up tension until something scares the living shit out of you. Anything can be scary in the right environment.
>>321105581
Hmmm... no "roar-like hell" makes it too... Jump scare-y.
I almost also want to suggest.
>You see it
>Torch flickers out
And either you die or maybe you can relight the torch and see nothing there?
I feel like you should die because then it's a lot of tension build up to nothing.
>>321099270
>Hm, this actually brings another question to mind: how powerful should the player character be versus their enemies?
You should be call of duty levels of capable, however, fighting monsters should be a waste of time and only effective to slow shit down, and ammo should be nearly non-existent.
I'm so tired of slow walk shitty lightsource unable to defend myself horror games. Fuck just a pointy stick would make half of them feel better.
>>321098843
>>321106117
It almost worked. If you got to save and it saved it was okay if you got killed 0.5 seconds later as in the save the Alien wasn't there and you were good.
>>321107541
This. It doesn't mean that you are powerless, but make it to be not a good idea because you could end up dead or badly injured.
Maybe some monsters are like those in some horror films:
>They rise again after a while.
>They vanish but you know they're not dead.
>They die for good but it doesn't really matter because there's more.
>They're unkillable, but you can wound them so they flinch. If they grab you you're dead though.
>They're unkillable and you can't harm them in any way. Fucking run.
>Some things will harm it and make it run away. (like fire, a holy cross to keep them at bay, whatever)
Been working on a horror action game for around 1.5 years now (been mostly doing designwork, story, art and mechanics wise, will probably write a book about it before the game will even start production)
Tell me what you think about this incomplete sketch of the namesake monster
Try out Cry of Fear y'all.
Free mod on steam.
best horror game I ever played
>>321108613
Doesn't look too bad. A little heavy on the Giger influence.
It will always be tough to judge monsters through art alone in horror, since lighting, movements, sound, and other factors will play into the spook factor.
>>321109115
>A little heavy on the Giger influence.
Elaborate, because Im making a very conscious effort on not trying to directly rip off other sources or existing things even if I take inspiration and influence from certain things (everything has already been done atleast once or more so its not exactly easy not to)
>>321109639
Its made of tubes and dicks.
>>321110484
tubes? sure, the creature is chained at the bottom of the sea and it uses them for breathing
Dicks I dont see
>>321107541
>>321108279
>>321103859
>player eventually finds a gun
>it actually doesn't do shit at all to the monster
>shooting at the monster makes it react when it takes the bullets
>doesn't actually stagger it or slow it down at all
>actually makes it move at a practically unnoticeable higher movement speed
>is literally useless
>watch as the community argue whether the gun is worth using at all, and see if some people are actually convinced it slows down the monster
>>321106348
A roar is somewhat necessary though
Sure, for something to just start running at you in the pitch dark would make you shit your pants so hard they're a new shade of brown.
If this is a game and you need to survive, a roar or some sort of sound will help send off another signal (auditory) to the player to GTFO than just a visual one.
Also, a scream or a lack of one brings it's own personality to a creature.
See something just start moving at you without making a sound? It's incredibly unsettling especially to the human mind as it expects some noise to go along with it and it will give a sense of complete uneasiness and absolute otherworldly horror
A scream will bring the monster closer to what a person would expect, but it wouldn't keep that sense of horror a soundless enemy would have, but it would be completely terrifying.
The main thing to avoid though would be if it shrieks, that it doesn't take its time to do so before charging at you. As soon as it notices you noticed it it should start screaming and moving, not stand, shriek and then charge
>>321109639
>>321110484
Also looks like it's in early pregnancy and it has a vag.
>>321110701
I don't see the dicks either, but biomechanical and sexual imagery is somewhat of Giger's staple, IIRC.
>>321104183
SOMA does this to an extent, although it's retarded, not scary, and there's no payoff for the stupid respawn gimmick
>>321110814
The monster is heavily inspired by Giger exactly because of what you said- its hard to not draw in inspiration when Gigers staples are biomechanical things with sexual themes and imagery on them
The monster is (to simplify it) supposed to be an alien/ human hybrid womb which rapes the significant other of the main character, and then births "their" child later
The game (or the universe in general, not restricted to a game since ive been thinking about a book) is heavily entangled in themes of violence and sexuality since the evil, uncaring cosmic "god" in the game is an impotent artist who is creating the universe from a prison through his writing/ artwork. Also plays around with the relationship of a creator and the things he/ she creates
>>321111493
I can almost see that cosmic god rubbing one out to media like The Thing and Alien. It's not a pretty sight.
>>321098909
>FEAR managed to be an effective horror game
Fear is one of my favorite games of all time but the horror and story shouldn't even be given any attention considering both are pretty shit and completely overshadowed by the gameplay.
>>321112340he actually just hates women, because he is unable to enjoy relationships and feel safe in them, which culminated in murdering his wife out or paranoia. The story incorporates this in a few interesting ways, like a female character inside the universe learning about how she literally exists to be murdered by the main character
>>321112798
Nigger that's just Maria all fucking over again from Silent Hill.
>>321108767
>jumpscare: the game
>good
>>321112798My knee is soggy.Though the "god" doesn't seem to be very godly. I mean by this that it sounds like he's just some guy in the real world whose twisted prison fantasies came to life. I'm not sure I would refer to him as a cosmic god, at least by the description given to me.
A visible sanity meter. It doesn't even have to do much, I've noticed people have a tendency to keep glancing at the meter in Amnesia and get more nervous as it drops even though it means almost nothing.
>>321113253
Not at all really, although from that short explanation it might seem that way- you probably understand that im not going to go into huge detail about these things, but I can say this:
The entire universe of the game acknowledges that its another layer of fiction inside what is the "reality" of that game (which has the artist in the prison, mentioned here>>321111493)
The main characters of the game are all powerful entities inside this more insane, abstract universe, loosely inspired by the aspects of BDSM- the women always dying at the hands of the men, and the main character (and somewhat self insert) of the artist being doomed to the unwilling role of a masochist with regenerating capabilities >>321109639
(sneak peak of the mc's helmet there)
>>321113595
He is a god to them who he created
>>321098739
Dead Space 3 is fucking hilarious. You lose. Everyone dies. End of franchise because EA.
>>321113947
That ending was DLC though wasn't it? The whole story went to shit after 2 though since they dropped the plot of Extraction and Severed's characters.
>>321114442
Ending of the Dead Space series came in the form of Isaac & Co coming to Earth to see several of the Necromorph moon things going to town on it.
I could see room to have a 4th game or some closer to the series, but if I were to write it the finale would probably involve sending the entire solar system and the Necromorphs in totality with them into a manmade black hole.
>>321099270
I feel like a lot of games are doing the "enemies are invincible" shtick, I would rather have consequences or have it be interesting, maybe the enemies avoid the damage by returning the bullet back to it's sender like a mirror or something, but just being immune to damage is a bit boring to me desu senpai
>>321098685
Best: Limited save points
Worst: Checkpoint system
What's there to be scared of if the game is just going to continue where I basically last died?
>>321116367
Then what about making it focus on a group of characters you can play as and each time you die as that character, that character remains permanently dead. And while they aren't being played as, you don't have to play with them so you don't have to worry about keeping anyone else alive and no co-op since co-op ruins anything creepy.
don't die.
>>321108613
Looks like a common enemy I would mow down in a first person shooter by Id
>>321117151
Depends on how you limit your saves and how often you make instant death hazards in the game. Dead Space 2's Hard Core mode only allows three saves if you're playing on PC or PS3, though 360 allows you a free save due to multiple disks being used.
Frictional has been pissing me off lately with their enemies that you can't kill, aren't scary and you can't get away from them because they teleport to you when you get too far.
Worst of all they put these enemies in large detailed areas that you end up not being able to explore because of fucking teleporting enemies.
>>321117217
I could that working if the setting was kind of like yume nikki, you could come and go at anytime, but then if manage to lose with everyone, I guess thats game over
>>321098685
Dead Space 3 had checkpoints and it's one of the worst changes when you compare it to the other two.
The actual best alternative for horror games is fixed saving positions.
