>tfw presented with a choice
>Option A, the logical choice everyone in their right mind would pick
>Option B, the downright retarded choice nobody would be inclined to pick
>Choose option B because you realise it's a video game and something special or interesting might happen
>Immersion: Fucking destroyed
tfw u choose option b and it fucks up your game so you reload and chose option a
>>321052574
Similar situation with Witcher 3. There were several quests where I felt Geralt would say this isn't my problem, I'm not going to get involved, but I accepted every single one because I didn't want to miss out on content.
>save before making choices
>reload after each choice to see all possible outcomes
>reload again to choose choice with preferred outcome
>game presents you with moral choices
>one of them has positive effect on the gameplay, the other has a negative effect on the gameplay
>everyone ends up choosing based on the gameplay effects, ignoring morality completely
>>321053149
>play life is strange
>savescumming is automatically implemented into the game
>>321053309
It doesn't matter anyway, it's just a game.
>>321053309
>game presents you with moral choices
>only 100% evil or 100% good are worth choosing
>being neutral offers no benefits at all
>always act like a complete cunt or a saint/errand boy
>break your self-imposed rules
>complain about your immersion being broken
ok?
>Choice A
>Choice B
>Choose B
>"Huh? What was that? I didn't hear.
>Choose A
>story can progress
>>321053535
Simply realising the choice and consequences for the choice breaks the immersion, whether you choose it or not.
>>321052574
>games giving me choices
just stop it. I don't play games to make wrong decisions like I do in life. Just guide me along, let me forget that my penis is too big so girls don't want to fuck me. Just let me die in my sleep
>4 choices
>"..." or "stay silent" is a choice
>does absolutely nothing different and the game progresses on the bare minimum of your input
>lose out on all possible outcomes
>>321052574
>Choose option B
>Everyone in the party acts like you morphed into hitler before there very eyes.
>Choose A, the one that fucks you over in every possible way.
>Party lines up to suck your cock.
>>321053739
>let me forget that my penis is too big
lol, what a faggot. How does it feel to dip your dick in shitty piss water every time you go to the bathroom?
>>321053703
>choices break immersion
You can just fuck off now
>>321053767
Pick your battles. You can't always get your selfish way.
>>321053767
Damn, switch those.
>>321053820
Choices whereby you realise that the retarded choice would probably lead to some extra content? Of course. But you're too fucking retarded to understand the point at all and just think it's the mere fact there's a choice presented. Fucking dumbass.
>Presented with a choice
>A is the feel good, good guy hero option that isn't actually useful in the grand scheme of things
>B is the pragmatic, possibly slightly cold option that will ultimately benefit more people
>Choose B
>+15 evil points
>>321053890
>I want to metagame AND have immersion
The latter is called roleplaying. You're not actually as smart as you think you are.
>>321053849
>Everyone in the party acts like you morphed into hitler
>Then they line up to suck your cock
I'd join that party, but the American branch is kind of scummy.
>Option A is the Good choice
>Option B is the Evil choice
>Pick A
>Party members object, forcing the A choice anyway
>>321054082
>>321054036
This annoyed me about Fable 3.
Everyone is pissed at you if you decide to make the "evil" but necessary choices. What the fuck do you cunts want? To be killed in a year but have a pretty lake to look at for the remainder of your life?
Just fucking tell them they have to deal with this shit or literally everybody will fucking die.
>>321054121
He's right, though. There's absolutely no reason why Option A should give you loot over Option B. If you can't handle knowing that choosing B gives you some goodies, I'd say you just need to grow up.
>>321052705
>Undertail
>"Clearly you chose the wrong ''path'' and now we're going to edit your save to teach you a lesson
Why is this considered a good idea?
>>321054331
>You think you're above consequences, do you?
>>321054270
>thinks it's about needing to grow up and not actually poor game design
You're both idiots if you seriously believe this.
>>321052574
>bravely default.png
>>321054423
>Games should be made to give the player maximum pleasure
>Games should be internally consistent
>Different players like different things
what now faggot
>TFW the game has a good choice or a bad choice
>But it's presented so well it deceives you into taking the bad choice
>Not only choosing it, but choosing it over and over and over again, hoping the results change based on blind faith
>MFW I was bamboozledBanner Saga is a really good game. I'm talking about the "wait in the snow village" moment
>>321054206
What annoyed me was how easy it was to get enough money to succeed in the "good" path
>>321054474
>trying to build a strawman
>>321054560
While true, the "oh, we just jumped the game 150 fucking days into the future over night" bullshit fucked a lot of people up.
>>321054574
>says pleasing mutually incompatible demographics is possible with 'better game design'
>doesn't know what a strawman is
Goodnight anon.
>>321054662
>>says pleasing mutually incompatible demographics is possible with 'better game design'
Where did I say that?
>>321054206
>>321054560
>>321054631
>tfw I spent two hours playing a lute in the middle of the street to fund the country's military
I like what they tried to do by presenting the pragmatic evil and making your brother a sympathetic figure because you were now in his shoes, but Fable's morality is too black and white for them to suddenly try to make it grey. It felt like it was arbitrarily making every pragmatic decision an evil one.
Like, choices that were legitimately evil and selfish were treated as just as evil as choices that were pragmatic and unfortunate.
Why don't games do more buddy choices?
Those can have consequences without any sort of stupid morality above it.
Roche (Dandelion) or Scoia'Tell (Zoltan) in Witcher 2, staying loyal (keeping some friends) or going with your buddy scientist (keeping him and other friends) to the Alliance in OW,...
Of course asking me to chose between drowning kittens and curing this poor sod I'm always going to help him out.
>doing practically anything you want to do
>your followers dislike you for it
Fallout fucking 4.WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU EXPECT ME TO DO STRONG? I CAN'T KICK THE FUCKING DOOR DOWN, SO UNLESS YOU WILL, DON'T CRITICIZE ME FOR USING A LOCK PICK YOU WANKER
>>321054821
You'll always get someone like >>321054423 who will say "woooooow what shitty game design there's no real reason you can't take them both"
>>321054917
You can actually find the key on the roof, eh?
>>321054943
I love how you don't realise my entire argument is based on the fact that the choices presented are either logical or stupid. That's it.
It's possible to have logical choices that people of a different opinion can choose without locking out content simply for not choosing the bat shit retarded one. So +10 points on completely misunderstanding not only the thread, but my explanations of it.
>>321054206
>Fable 1
>infiltrate a huge bandit camp
>fight their leader
>you can choose to spare or kill him
>killing the leader of the biggest group of bandits in the entire world gives you bad karma
Fuck fable and fuck Hack Molyneux
>>321055046
>my entire argument
you don't actually have one :^)
>>321055113
God, I feel if we werent given a choice in GTAV we would have had a better story. Being forced to kill one of them would have been pretty good.
Who in the right mind wouldnt choose death wish?
But death wish was the lame ass ending though.
>>321054917
>ey dog, could you fetch me a sandwich, saw one in that there deathclaw cave over yonder, ill give you 100 caps
>Sure but I'd be risking my life, could I ask for some more caps
>"Cumguzzler disliked that"
Yeah fuck companions in this game
>>321055187
>But death wish was the lame ass ending though.
They were all stupid endings.
>>321055216
At least dogmeat doesn't judge me, the rest of the companions can go fuck themselves.
>Danse isa synth
>Dislikes anything negative towards synths all of a sudden
>Still dislikes anything positive towards them
>>321055046
I do wonder, though.
Do you have anything against the way Wictcher 2 and Original War handled choices?
The latter one has more of them but then again, you most likely never played the game.
>>321055230
Yeah, but killing one of the two was better than "oh gosh guys! Lets just kill every enemy ever and be done with it!"
>>321055046
You've never really played a game while roleplaying, have you?
When you're roleplaying you don't give a shit about 'the loot that could have been'. If your character makes a logical choice, that's on you.
Your frustration is literally self-induced because you value the ending items higher than the actual gameplay. And that's just sad.
>>321054423
It's not poor game design. It's literally like he said.
If you want to metagame, fine. But don't fucking expect reading an FAQ or replaying a section to have the same level of immersion as roleplaying.
You're being fucking retarded.
>>321055387
>because you value the ending items higher than the actual gameplay
It really isn't.
It's about the knowledge that those items are there in the first play that breaks the immersion, regardless of your choice. Of course roleplaying negates this, but not only does not everybody roleplay, but most games with poor choices don't even allow for roleplaying. GTA V for example. Did you "roleplay" the final choice at the end? Or did you choose the one where your other playable characters would survive? Don't be so dense.
>>321055532
>don't be so dense
>>321055613
Great rebuttal there friend.
>>321055010
is this why snape wears the turban in the first movie?
>>321055636
You're whining about having metadata on the game. It's literally a self-imposed constraint that's usually expected when playing a video game.
Your complaint would be dumb as fuck if you made it about a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book. And that's exactly what you're doing. Think about it, genius.
>>321055532
>It's about the knowledge that those items are there in the first play that breaks the immersion, regardless of your choice.
>I can't enjoy something if I know what happens next
Not a big re-reader, I take it.
If you didn't know, people have been dealing with this for hundreds of years by simply not giving a fuck. I advise you do the same.
>>321055775
>You're whining about having metadata on the game.
You've proven time and time again that you don't even understand the context of the complaint in the slightest.
>>321055532
Once again, metagaming gives you foreknowledge.
You're arguing that foreknowledge breaks immersion, when in fact YOU'RE the one breaking immersion by metagaming.
You literally would have no clue that option A/B/C/D locks content or changes scenarios unless you're metagaming.
>>321056018
No, we understand perfectly. You don't like retarded choices that break immersion because you HAVE TO pick the retarded choice to get the good loot.
except
you
don't
have
to
get
the
good
loot
It's really that simple.
>>321056018
Maybe you should actually explain the distinction between your problem and metagaming then.
Because from where we stand, you're just repeating yourself over and over while four people call you a metagamer and you call them dense.
Maybe it's time to buy a fucking saddle, bro.
>>321056018
Scientologists and other religious 'debaters' often fall back to "you're not understanding my argument" as their biggest defense.
>>321056179
buy a saddle?
>>321056078
>You literally would have no clue that option A/B/C/D locks content or changes scenarios unless you're metagaming.
That's not true in the slightest. The mere inclusion of a choice that's so illogical that nobody would choose it (regardless of this roleplaying argument that keeps being brought up) would lead anybody break immersion, simply from the realisation it's added just for the sake of it being a game with the assumption being that locked content would be behind this choice.
Without metagaming, games can outright give you the knowledge about consequences for choices, as with the prior GTA V example, that would be in a game that nobody would roleplay, yet the fact that the choice is offered to either save all playable party members or kill off one breaks immersion entirely.
There's no roleplaying argument, no "I have to choose this because X/Y"
But sure, reply to this yet again with rebuttals to claims and arguments I didn't even make.
Such as
>>321056142
that I "HAVE TO" pick an option
>>321056351
Lucky Number Slevin quote.
"The first time someone calls you a horse you punch him on the nose, the second time someone calls you a horse you call him a jerk but the third time someone calls you a horse, well then perhaps it's time to go shopping for a saddle."
>>321056474
That is completely untrue and circular reasoning.
Just by merit of a choice being there has ZERO causal relation to whether or not it locks content.
Now you're presupposing your own biases and blaming the game for it.
I'll say it again: quit being fucking retarded.
>>321056530
Nice. Fun movie.
>>321056474
>An illogical choice is immersion-breaking if it breaks immersion by being naturally 'unchoosable'
...?
>>321056612
Not him, but I have no idea how you still can't get what he's saying. I mean, nobody can be more clear than that, how the hell can you be so dumb?
>>321056612
>has ZERO causal relation
Except that's retarded. If a choice is offered that is so out of place and so stupid to choose, assuming it locks content is perfectly natural and simply seeing a choose so stupid or out of character/context leads to breaking immersion alone. I'm not saying I know there's content locked behind such a choice, but since that's the norm for games that would offer such a choice, it brings the realisation that this is in fact a game, which is immersion breaking from just considering it.
>>321056474
Hey, buddy.
Take every case of 'breaks immersion' that you say
and
wait for it
replace it with 'breaks MY immersion'.
Whining might as well be clear about its origins. You're playing a video game, not a universe simulator to the atomic level. Just because YOU can't handle a choice doesn't actually mean it's bad.
>>321056793
seeing a choice*
>>321056792
Thank you for following this far
>>321056793
>If a choice is offered that is so out of place and so stupid to choose, assuming it locks content is perfectly natural
If you actually played games you'd know that this is quite common and doesn't ruin immersion in the slightest IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE CHOICE.
If you DO know the consequences of the choice...then we're back to the metagaming argument.
But please.
Tell us how we misunderstood your argument AGAIN.
>>321056820
Need this even be said? The whole basis of complaining about something is subjective anyway, what is your fucking point exactly? Just say "I disagree" and move the fuck on.
>>321056961
>The whole basis of complaining about something is subjective anyway
>it really sucks that this car pulls to the left
>>321056942
>If you actually played games you'd know that this is quite common and doesn't ruin immersion in the slightest IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE CHOICE.
Except it does, just from seeing such a choice. The fact that it IS common in games, is what makes it a natural assumption and DOES break immersion.
The argument at this point can be reduced to:
>nu uh
>uh huh
>presented with a coice to murder a village for the greater cause
>say yes
>party member: OMG HOW COULD YOU, YOU MONSTER
>reload
>say no
>same party member: HAHAHA I KILLED THEM ALL BECASUE YOU'RE SUCH A PUSSYFAGGOTBITCH
>>321055374
That's actually the sensible thing to do though.
"A bunch of people are fucking with us? Let's just fucking murder them all. Wouldn't be the craziest thing we've done."
>>321057053
>it really sucks that this car pulls to the left
>but it doesn't pull to the left
>if you actually drove cars you'd see that that's natural
>can you even see that acting like a car would lead you to naturally pull to the left?
>I think it actually pulls to the right
>>321057053
Replace that with
It really sucks that I THINK that this car pulls to the lefthurr durr
>>321057093
Ogre Tactics?
>>321057264
yes
>>321057053
>it really sucks that this car pulls to the left, because I don't like it to
>>321057058
[weird choice]
>YOU: wow i have seen a weird choice now my immersion is ruined because it probably locks content
>ME: wow what a weird choice, what should I do
grow the fuck up, man
everybody here understands what you're getting at
we're just saying it's a pretty pathetic thing to whine about.
>this breaks muh immersion
ever try not being a little bitch?
SITUATION A: 1st Playthrough
>YOU: Wow what a ridiculous choice I bet it's going to lock me out of some content:
>wow I guessed right, immersion ruined
OR
>wow I guess wrong. [is my immersion ruined anyways????????]
SITUATION B: 2nd+ playthrough
>YOU: well I already know what happens with the other choice, so:
>I'm roleplaying and make a choice based on the merits of the decision, my immersion is intact
OR
>I'm metagaming and make a choice based on loot results. Immersion should not impact loot.
You can't always have it all. Put down the game if you hate it so much, but you'll miss a lot of good games if you're a little bitch about it.
>>321057501
If this post was not meant as a joke that is the funniest fucking thing I've seen in months
>>321057571
>make a concise example with regard to creating a thread about tropes in video games based on choices
>have to argue and explain the original reasoning for the entire thread
>rebuttals to this simply turn into "you're just being a little bitch, stop whining :("
Is it pathetic to complain about? Yeah, probably. Is it pathetic that you're arguing with me about it? Also yes.
>>321057053
>I think it sucks this car pulls to the left
>>321057650
maybe you like it pulling to the left for the challenge?
dude
weed
>>321053497
Moral choices in games are usually being 100% saint or 100%asshole anyway
>>321057784
They seem to be going for a "good cop/bad cop" thing now days
>>321055051
It's like Batman
>Batman defeats the Joker after he escaped prison and killed 1000 people
>Duuurrrr killing is bad!
>Arrests Joker
>Joker escapes prison and kills 1000 innocent people again
>Batman defeats him
>Duuuuurrrrr killing is bad!
>Arrests Joker
>Puts him in the same prison he just broke out of with maybe 1 additional security measure that he will inevitably overcome and escape again then kill 1000 people
>The cycle of Batman's inability to see the bigger picture continues
>>321057886
I don't know why they took batman in this direction, didn't he used to have no problems about killing? Or was this always present?
>>321057650
>420 blaze i xD amirite? lel
>>321054484
I thought the choices in that game were poorly implemented because it's fucking impossible to tell what the the results of those choices will be outside of trial and error.
How in the hell am I suppose to know that shooting an arrow immediately{or whatever} will kill Egil as opposed not shooting it?{I forget if this was the option to save him, but you get the idea}.
There's no consistency or logic in that at all. A good dialog system makes it clear what will happen when I make my choices, not make my characters die because I made a choice that killed without me even knowing there could be a possibility of that.
>>321057650
then you either lack humor or you don't go to any funny places.
>>321057945
Nigga what. Batman never kills, because he is fucking batman
>Hero, will you save the world?
[Yes]
>[No]
>No? But you must! Will you save the world?
[Yes]
>[No]
>No? But you must! Will you save the world?
[Yes]
>[No]
>No? But you must! Will you save the world?
If you're not going to let me pick an option why bother having it in the first place?
>>321054484
Damn I never finished that game and so long has passed I mind as well start a new run.
Is what you're talking about the waiting in the village to protect the people from the dredge or something like that? God my memory is shit.
>>321057886
I like the theory that Batman knows Joker will just break out but he locks him up anyway because he's a huge narcissist who gets off on playing the hero.
![17t0gy2c3xnkkjpg[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/erGO2gr.jpg "17t0gy2c3xnkkjpg[1].jpg")
>>321058123
the modern pussy version doesn't
>>321058137
Because JRPGs still have to pretend that they're actually RPGs
>>321058123
>try searching for examples of batman killing someone
Didn't exactly work out
>>321058237
Yeah and superman has masonry vision and he once got jimmy married to a gorilla
>>321057886
Maybe lock up Joker somewhere else. Let Batman make his own special prison or something, he has the resources and the knowledge to design something that his enemies wouldn't be able to escape from.
That being said, how does Joker keep breaking out of prison anyway? He's the most "normal" after all. He's just a regular dude, he isn't a shapeshifter or have magical plant powers.
>>321058137
>key item
>Will you pick this up?
>"No"
>cannot continue game
>>321058302
>>321054206
I just raised the rent to the max temporarily until I had enough money not to industrialize the whole place. Built a brothel though.
Afterwards I just lowered the rents to minimum.
>>321058345
Put him in an induced coma?
>>321058137
in bof2 you can choose no and when you do the world ends and game over. What would you expect from choosing no anyway?
>>321058137
>Hey hero do this for me!
[No]
>Ha ha ha, you're so funny! Now let's go do that thing.
>>321058335
Yes, modern Superman is boring as well
thanks Nolan
>>321054403
On games we are, just delete the files and be done with it.
>>321058415
If this is Steambot Chronicles, you switch sides and become a soldier for the bad guys instead.
But a game where saying no to the call of duty would be pretty interesting. What if you're just some farm hand in the country side and you refused to take up the magic sword and kill the evil magician?
Suddenly the game becomes a Harvest Moon-lite as you just live as a farm hand as you've always have. But news about the magician's exploits come more and more frequently and are more and more terrible. Soon it's always night and your crops and animals have died long ago. Now you have to live through the end times as a farm hand with no farm, a NPC who can't escape his fate of being ripped in half by monsters and being part of some other hero's backstory.
>>321054794
It's been a while since Fable 3, but doesn't your brother act like a dick and try to kill you or do some other retarded things? I don't get how all that bullshit was thrown under the blanket of "necessary evil cus muh abomination" like everything else he did.
>>321058406
He get's broken out by his gang.
Joker's plot-based infinite prison escaping power is unbeatable.
>play evil/doucebag
>miss out on 50% of all quests
>>321058810
Amputate his limbs? Make him blind/deaf? Tons of shit that can be done humanely that will save thousands of lives if killing is the only big taboo.
>>321058816
Replayability though mang
>>321057886
Joker used to be a funny wild card that liked to rob banks, it's been downhill ever since they wrote him shooting barbara.
>>321058816
>play a good character
>all the good choices involve sucking everyone's dicks for no reward
>play an evil character
>all the evil choices are maximum edgelord mode where you slaughter everyone
>play a neutral character
>no real neutral options so you have to be bipolar and alternate between good and evil
>>321058908
Or you know. Just fucking kill him.
I'm against death sentences as much as the next guy, but there comes a point where you just have to go, fuck it.
>>321058908
He get's broken out by his gang, then special genetic technology is used to replace his limbs, hearing and sight.
I'll say it again, unbeatable. Because the plot demands that it be unbeatable.
>>321059062
Amputate the limbs of his fucking gang then damn it, amputate all the fucking limbs
>>321054331
> tail
>>321058970
>first time, play game as good because content
>years later, want to replay it
>forgotten most stuff
>play good anyways because more content
>>321059005
>good
>do quest, take no reward
>neutral
>do quest, accept reward
>evil
>do quest, take bigger reward
Gee, Thanks. I wish this whole dialog choice thing would die down a bit.
>Asked if you'll save the world
>Say no
>Get a game over
>fork in road
>choose left/right>CHECKPOINT
>>321058643
but anon you know that's stupid because they might as well make the alternate storyline as a separate game or DLC.
>>321053739
tfw ;_;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LNyYlOT2qQ
>>321053751
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmWDbHwGEy0
>>321056351
holy shit it's saul!
