Why won't you admit it's the better game?
Promotes Footsies
Rewards smart play, unlike melee/pm where people could dash attack and start ToD combos
More character variety (all are viable, shiek/zss is just most used
Defensive play is actually viable now
Has CLOUD from FF7
Has Bayonetta from Bayonetta
Just buy this game already
>sm4sh
>most in tents camping in any "fighting" (party) game.
>better
since this is just gonna turn into meleefags fighting with smash 4 fags ive just come to say that im still fucking upset.
>>320994528
Smash is a pretty cool game anon but why is your screenshot a JPG artifact pile of dogshit
>>320994925
Smash is a competitive action game.
Nintendo itself referred to it as such.
You can stop using that kuk-tier meme now.
sorry bro its gonna be dead by next year and melee will still go strong
>>320994528
>its the better smash game
>posts pic with 2 people with shield up
hmm
>>320994528
>Defensive play is actually viable now
I know your whole post is bait, but defensive play is the strongest but hardest to pull off kind of play in melee.
A Defensive Fox is a nightmare to deal with.
>>320994528
It's boring. Once you get past all the bells and whistles, you're left with a pretty dull game with mediocre content outside of the roster and music
>>320994528
>actually viable now
It was in brawl
How do we save it bros?
>>320994528
>Has Bayonetta from Bayonetta
You say that like it's a good thing.
Anyone wanna do a Sm4sh tourney?
>>320995749
There's no saving it.
No more DLC news so the "hype train" is dead.
Give it one more year before it's dead and buried.
>>320994528
>footsies
Uhhh footstools?
>>320994528
I don't like up-throw "combos", the defensive play is the meta for all except sheik because frame data. It's so fucking slow in every fucking aspect, from fall speed (lol no momentum) to horrible lag on attacks. It's a better version than brawl for sure but the gameplay is still mostly: grab/hit, follow up with the only combo the character has (sheik 100 fairs), then reset to neutral.
It's ok to play but sleep inducing to watch.
>>320995784
>bayonetta a bad thing
in what universe?
>>320995326
only competitive scene. melee's non-competitive scene has been dead for a long time anon
>>320995749
>b-but those are all smash documentary kiddies !!
just posting it now before someone does it seriosly
>>320995964
>non-competitive scene
So how people will drop the game the second DLC stops coming around?
>>320994528
lyl
>>320995952
A sane one.
>>320995105
>competitive
>4
Doesn't feel like it senpai.
>>320996241
are you a homosexual? just wondering
>>320994528
>defensive play is actually viable now
More like the entire metagame now
>>320995749
We don't. Shit game dies. Melee lives on.
>>320996314
It's what nintendo said, not me.
People here like to spout "party game" because nintendo said so. Well, now they changed their opinion.
>>320996369
Any chance of a late night tourney? Or is Nintendo network down like some people keep saying.
>Why won't you admit it's the better game?
The picture you posted sums it up perfectly.
It favors shielding and defense more, so you have shitters resort to nothing but shielding all approaches and running grabs in for glory.
Don't even get me started on tourneyfags and their bullshit stalling tactics.
>>320994975
Slow shield regen speed so shield damage and pressure actually means something. Also disable regen completely while dodging or rolling.
>>320995749
>disappointed Bill
My heart can't take this.
>>320994528
literally game is so slow and boring it requires 2 stocks instead of 4
it is very rare for a player to camp out another play in melee even with 4 fucking stocks lol
tr4sh fight mechanics are literal shit sorry it just is man
there is hope for you yet, just switch to melee
i know you may not have many friends to play with, not those shit people you play online with
no, actually play melee with friends in the same room is the most fun youll ever have
>>320996720
God forbid a game be about having a solid defense rather than being scrub friendly hyper aggressive first person to hit whens shitfests
>combos
>Smash 4
>>320997270
DI is'nt defensive lol
>tfw you play both games
Smash 4 meta is turtling and baiting for 1 confirm into a 2-3 hit combo. Outside of very few reliable kill setups, most characters rely on 50/50s and airdodge baits.
Melee is fuck up once and die. The game resets back to neutral very rarely, and the neutral is fucking intense.
Smash 4 IS way slower, but that doesn't necessarily make it bad. Even the shittiest characters in melee have reliable kill setups. Smash 4 doesn't.
>>320997270
Defensive play is melee is super powerful.
Do you think defensive play is just sitting in your shield? Wavedash back is a ten times more stronger defensive option than anything on Smash 4.
>>320995964
by far the most retarded thing i've read
>>320997270
Just because games are hyper aggressive doesn't mean you can't have good solid defense in them. Just look at KOF for example. You can have excellent rushdown tactics as KOF is known for, but if someone has solid defense, he can shut down approaches like clockwork.
Smash 4 on the other hand is just too much emphasis on defensive and especially evasive gameplay.
>>320996902
I prefer this one since it has the box on the right
What I like about Smash 4:
It doesn't have gimmicky instant kill scenarios like P:M or Melee
Attacking actually has a risk involved, tired of melee dash attack (if it hits? combo! / if it doesnt, just roll)
What I don't like about Smash 4:
Roster
Shields
ZSS/Shiek
>>320997270
defence is for scrubs you moron. only pussies defend in a fighting game
>>320997636
I just don't like one fuck up = tod combo.
>>320997453
wavedash back......smash 4
lmao glitches
>>320997818
That's just KOFXIII, and that still requires a good amount of meter if you really want to waste all of it on one character.
But KOF98 is very solid.
>>320997726
>(if it hits? combo! / if it doesnt, just roll)
Oh yeah! Remember how in melee if you block a dash attack you can just grab, Dsmash, or even rest OoS to fuck their shit up real bad?
Attacking in melee is way dangerous due to less shieldstun. Fucking Jigglypuff alone can punish ANY dash attack with shield>rest.
Shit the fuck up, retard.
Anyone done for wii u 1v1's? Post your nnid
>>320997872
>wavedash
>glitch
Pls sir this is too much autism
Tr4sh:
Where the most best and most offensive option is always the most defensive option.
What a tedious meta.
>>320997726
>>320994528
a tr4sh fag who obviously hasn't played melee long enough to know why rolling and dash attacks are bad options in neutral. (for most characters)
>>320997726
>miss an attack in melee
>could lead to a 0-to-death combo
>miss an attack in smash 4
>the worst it could lead to is a dthrow>into aerial
Wow. So dangerous.
>>320998275
yea thats why i like smash 4 better
>>320997970
kill yourself autist, i have no idea what the fuck you just said to me
>>320998408
>i have no idea what the fuck you just said to me
eheheh
Smash 4 is good game but Melee is a better one.
>>320997818
>>320994528
if what you're saying is true then doesnt melee promote footsies WAY more than sm4sh since once somebody gains an advantage that stock is gone? Also 2 of your points are just characters who only some people care about
>>320998408
Oh yes doing a WL into a SHFFL move could lead into a miss so they could punish with a SHFFL OoS. Something with very high BKB like Rest, could just fuck your shit up. No matter your DI, Amsah Teching, or V-cancels.
>>320997872
what are you even trying to say here, anon?
>>320998028
Not sure. Am I down for 1v1s?FishmanJishman
>>320997970
What language is this even?
>>320998628
The fuck are you even saying to me right now?
Do you autists just type random strings of letters and pretend it means anything?
>>320998669
only thing in there that is kinda obscure is OoS which stands for Out of Shield maneuvers which applies to both games
>>320998669
>>320998408
>>320998775
Whoa the most advanced term there is OoS (out of shield) and you can't even understand that shit?
You fucking retards are not allowed to have an opinion on anything smash. Fuck off.
>>320994975
>since this is just gonna turn into meleefags fighting with smash 4 fags
holy shit this guy called it!
>>320998519
Melee has less emphasis on footsies due to how good aerial approaches are. Attacking from air to ground is suicide for most characters in smash 4, so they are forced to play footsies. Melee footsies are still better though due to all the movement options
>>320998656
>FishmanJishman
added
>>320998914
>>320998897
The fuck is a shffle, Shuffle? Why take two letters out.
The hell is Amsah Teching or V-Cancel
What the shit are you even going on about?
Why are you so autistic over a non-competitive action game?
Smash 4 is better, deal with it.
>>320998995
It's Air footsies, like in Guilty Gear or with Yun.
>>320999105
Short
Hop
Fast
Fall
L cancel
SHFFL
Amsa is a technical yoshi player, velocity canceling
I prefer memelee but tr4sh is fine. I prefer melee because the movement and combos feel so much more satisfying to me the in smash 4. I typically play luigi and wavedashing across the stage and on platforms feels really satisfying to me. The fact that I can actually play my favorite characters(ness and lucas) in smash 4 does make it somewhat fun to me. My personal favorite is 64 but the scene is pretty dead so I never invested to much time into it.
>>320997818
The only players who do this are the ones at the very top and they still drop their combos a lot because the guys on the other end know how to DI making it harder for them.
>>320995105
>Nintendo said it so it's true
retard alert
>>320999105
Don't worry about them. they're too obessed with trying to "win" you over because nintendo dropped their game like a bad habit to make better smashes
bitter fucks
>>320998995
I dunno, it depends on the character.
Some characters are better grounded, then after they pop up and opponent they can rain their aerials, like Falcon. Other characters are strictly grounded like the ICs.
>>320999105
Short Hop Fast Fall Lag-cancelled
Amsah teching, a special kind of tech popularized by the player Amsah.
V-cancel is cancelling the knockback of a move by 5% by pressing R/L 3 frames before entering hitstun.
Of course smash 4 has nothing of this, because it's a barebones shitty game with no complexity made for retards.
>>320999203
Amsah is not aMSa.
>>320999265
I guess it was never a party game either then, since Nintendo was the one that said that.
>>320999252
Nah it's very easy to 0-death low-mid level players while being a low-mid level player. They usually have shit DI and get hit with followups that shouldn't work
>>320999274
>melee still going strong
>stronger than ever
>new tech still being found to this day
>bigger scene, better players
>nintendo now even sponsoring melee tournaments
Nice.
64 > PM = Melee > Smash 4 > Brawlcome at me
>>320999474
they never said it was a good game either
>>320999647
Objectively "good" games don't exist, so I can't see your point.
>>320999636
>64 on top
Too much hitstun and Kirby too broken.
>>320999203
Wrong person
aMSa is the technical Yoshi player, Amsah is a European Shiek player and the Amsah Tech is a technique named after the European Shiek player
>>320999772
I'd rather have Kirby broken than Fox
>>320994528
>Has CLOUD from FF7
Cloud is in this game?
>>320999896
Kirby is broken in a way that even the biggest shitter can abuse.
Fox requires way too much skill to use his broken shenanigans.
Pikachu is still the better 64 character.
>>320999636
Completely right on every view, best taste in the thread. Who do you play in 64, kirby/ness main.
Defensive play isn't viable in any smash game. The more you wait to react to something, the more they can read your reactions.
Melee has a very high skillcap and playing well is always going to outweigh button mash. Its online community is great.
Smash 4 I feel is much more about mind games since it's still a little capped in speed (however this isn't a bad thing) all the characters clones or not, are pretty cool and even cooler in the better graphics. Smash 4 community is great outside of the smash 4 multiplayer, for glory is a waste of time: everyone sucks, roll spamming which just constantly prolongs them getting hit for another three seconds, air dodge spamming is also punishable but annoying, and none of them realize they're bad and they can get better by simply moving away instead of rolling. I have to chase these noobies around as captain falcon and the next round they change their username to "CHEAP" or "NOOB" and get all whiney on forum boards about their experiences.
I think both games are great for different purposes.
>>321000096
Kirby/Pikachu all day everyday.
>>321000023
Suck my pikadick
I still miss them /v/. Every night.
>>320999985
Yep, latest dlc, but his recovery is worse than little macs and he has no combos.
>>321000402
When did this happen, and why cloud?
>>321000476
1: A week or two ago 2: no fucking idea
There are lots of YouTube videos about him, check them out
>>321000476
Several days ago, and who the fuck knows
>>321000402
>his recovery is worse than little macs
His recovery is bad, but it isn't THAT bad
>>321000678
I would argue it is without limit
>tfw looking back at old wishlist
>None of them got in the game
I really hope the next game has at least some of these guys plus inkling
>>321001015
>Tfw the only character I really wanted was an AC rep
>First character unveiled for the game
>>321001015
i went into wish list threads as a guy who's wishllist was all FE characters to spite others
i didnt mean for any of this to happen
>>320995563
This. Brawl's physics are about the same as Sm4sh, plus it has tons and tons of worthwhile content to play through. Just mod it to make the physics more like Melee and Brawl is easily the best Smash.
>>321001010
Take cloud and little mac into training mode and compare their jump heights, cloud jumps almost twice as high as little mac. Cloud actually has good aerials and specials that don't put him in freefall too, so he isn't a fish out of water when he's offstage
>>321001452
>If you change how the game plays, it becomes a better game
No shit?
Serious question: I keep hearing that fox is wildly more powerful than the rest of the melee cast, but never hear people complain about him being overpowered? Why do people never talk about what seems like actual horrible balance issues with half the cast being not or barely viable? Is It just that people have that meleedick so far down their throats that they don't want to ever criticize it or is there an actual reason?
>>321002365
Melee is perfect and doesn't have any flaws. If you think it does, please end your life.
>mfw playing for glory recently
how the FUCK do people play with this delay? Some matches its bad I can't punish rolls and shit and then it goes to being so delayed that I can't recover.
Its legit awful if you nobody locally to play with
>>321002365
He's not "wildly more powerful" than the other good characters. He is generally better, but not by an absurd amount and he has clearly defined weaknesses. He's difficult to play and has a decent chance of dying every time he gets hit. That's what makes him much more tolerable than a character like brawl metaknight or smash 4 sheik
>>321002658
I pick cloud
I spam blade beam until they come in
I use my superior range to knock em away
I repeat
Alternatively
I charge LB
I cancel into shield and into grab, and repeat this process.
>>321002365
Because for the most part, tiers aren't as big of a factor as you'd think when playing Melee. They all have their own movement options, setups, strengths and weaknesses. Even Fox has bad matchups (Marth on FD, etc.) The truth is that no fighting game will ever be perfectly balanced, but for the most part you see a solid 8-10 characters every year being played by players who place first, and that expands even more when you get into the Top 8.
>>321002942
>tiers aren't as big of a factor as you'd think when playing Melee
HAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA HAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
HAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA HAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
>>321003075
>Axe - Pikachu
>Amsa - Yoshi
>Plup - Samus
>Abate - Luigi
>Kage - Ganondorf
These are just some of the people who main lower-tier characters that do amazingly well.
>>321002869
sounds fun
>>320998628
nobody talks about melee like this, nobody says "a SHFFL move" or "a SHFFL OoS", the fact that you are going to SHFFL aerials in the neutral is a given and is just meaningless as opposed to saying "nair OoS".
>>321002365
Fox doesn't completely dominate Melee, similar to how Sheik doesn't dominate Sm4sh.
64's most viable characters are Kirby and Pikachu.
Melee has Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, and arguably Jigglypuff.
Brawl has Meta Knight.
Sm4sh has Sheik and whatever the rest of the game's top tier is this week.
Fox is in no way "wildly more powerful" than everybody else.
nintendo party games like smash are fun faggots. deal with it.
>>321003427
u r killing me lel
a good link will never come close to a average fox
tiers absolutely do matter
just because theres 3-4 autistic character mainers doesnt mean tiers dont magically stop existing
oh man makoto hit top 8 in sf, guess tiers dont matter
oh my lord why are u so atustici
>>321003427
devil's advocate here, both axe and amsa are picking up falco, and plup mains sheik
>>321003579
>similar to how Sheik doesn't dominate Sm4sh.
why do melee fags spout shit they don't know anything about
>>321003845
that's a bit hypocritical
>>321003427
gannon is the only example that's not on the top half of the tier list, and he's only one spot away. That still leaves the entire bottom half of the tier list minus gannon.
>>321003845
So Sm4sh IS dominated by just Sheik?
Isn't that saying that Melee truly does have better viability?
>>321004217
saying shiek dominates sm4sh is like saying fox dominates melee
>>321002658
I thought it was just my shit connection, is it like that for everyone?
I don't even bother with for glory because of it but god damn people play the casual mode like such pussies, I don't know how people can enjoy playing like that
>>321004472
yes not everytime but yeah
I'm honestly surprised when I see tourney play FG for youtube bucks and not spaz out with the delay. Zero acknowledges it but it never gets to him.
>all these people saying that fox doesn't dominate melee
>check current tier list
>fox literally has a tier of his own with a score twice as high as the runner up, which is a fox clone
>>321004803
and everybody calls that SS tier retarded, and that fox shouldnt be there
>>321004803
That's more of smashfags not understanding what an SS tier character is. Brawl mk isn't really an SS tier character either
>>321002942
>>321003427
>Because for the most part, tiers aren't as big of a factor as you'd think when playing Melee.
Against shitter they ain't. Against the best of the best they do matter and it's pretty evident.
>>321004996
n-no i-it doesn't matter!!!
>>320998080
>MUH "EXPLOIT"
You do know that's a verb, right? Not a noun. You apply it TO a noun meaning you are exploiting something. So tell me, what are you exploiting, my friend? If it's a built in mechanic, then why are you calling it an exploit?
>>321004980
It's universally agreed that fox is not in his own tier though.
>>320994528
If you play defensively you're a fucking faggot. I swear Im dancing around people who never aproach me when I play this shitty game online
>>320994528
Because I like just having fun with friends, not playing "e-sports"
>>321005082
it's an unintended technique from the physics engine, with the rules laid out by the physics wavedashing makes perfect sense. theres no glitches or bugs to fix regarding wavedashing, they had to intentionally change the way air dodges worked to remove wavedashing.
>>321003427
When was the last time any of them actually won something significant?
Fucking never.
Even with all the FOX FOX FOX FOX FALCO FALCO FALCO SHEIK SHEIK going on in Melee, it's still miles more fun to watch AND to play. Even the fucking items in Melee feel awesome to use.
Smash 4 is just boring, and the DLC is a desperate attempt to keep it relevant so that people don't realize that Nintendo made a Smash game for their dying, overpriced console that now acts solely as a Smash Bros machine.
Sakurai is fucking awful and constantly holds back the series. Smash will be good once he fucks off and someone that actually cares works on Smash. Hell, I'm sure that a few non-shitpost fags from /v/ can come up with WAY better ideas than Skaurai that don't involve buying licenses or absurd amounts of funding. Something as simple as adding a single alt. costume for the entire cast. For free. Holy shit, right?!
Even in this thread we could all do a better job than Sakurai with actual good ideas for the series. Fuck him and fuck Smash 4.
>>321005128
>If you play intelligently, you're a faggot!
>Why won't you let me hit you!
>>321005082
But sir exploit is a noun
I realized that 1v1 online in smash bros is the worst way to play the game.
Tihs game is most fun during /v/kends when its 4-player FFA.
This /v/kend was the most fun I've had with smash ever.
Smash bros. Wii U tournaments are often pretty good too when its not just sheik on repeat though. I'm excited for Evo 2016, I'm expecting a much more diverse character selection, especially with all the DLC.
>>321005243
>it's an unintended technique from the physics engine
So you just admitted it's not supposed to be there
> they had to intentionally change the way air dodges worked to remove wavedashing.
yeah, and because of the deadline they were under, they did not have time to rewrite half the physics engine to remove it. Just because they knew about it doesn't mean they intended for it to be discovered and utilized. It's a physics glitch that they didn't have time to remove.
>>321004319
Except neither of those are true, and I never said that.
>>320997249
>no, actually play melee with friends in the same room is the most fun youll ever have
This
>tfw you and your friend level up together in Melee and take on local tournaments together
No greater joy has come from video games than this
>>320994528
Melee for 1v1
Smash 4 for free for allswith /v/
>>320997726
>>320994528
In literally what fucking universe does anyone in high level Melee or even decent level Melee use dash attack in neutral to start combos?
It's a fucking PARTY GAME or BATTLE ROYALE, stop forcing real fighting game terms on it.
It's not competitive, it's just fun.
>>321005695
Sheik
>>321004803
>Tier List not made by Melee Back Room
>Official
>>321005510
Another anon here
Now you're just shouting out bullcrap
Do you play games with your friends and shout to them that they have to play the game just just how YOU want to play it? Jesus christ I bet you don't even have friends
>>321005360
>Im not going to you
>You come to me
Funny how you all talk shit about people who do that in FPS but playing like a bitch is okay in fighting games.
>>321005510
It's not a glitch because it's the game working as intended. The most Sakurai has said about it was that he didn't expect it to be used how it was. Saying wavedashing is a glitch is like calling combos, bunny hopping, rocket jumping, etc. glitches
>>321005510
>So you just admitted it's not supposed to be there
yes, did anyone in this thread claim that wavedashing was coded in by sakurai? it's not supposed to be there, just like sheik isn't supposed to be the best in smash 4, doesn't mean that sheik is glitched or bugged to be stronger, it's just an unintended effect of how they made sheik.
>>320999636
Yeah I honestly can't argue with this. 64 is so fun. I love that Falcon dittos are literally 0-death after 0-death, if they re-released it with just better graphics it would be so great.
>>321005874
Only shitter's complain about campers
>>320996902
Replace Geno and Sceptile with Waluigi and Daisy.
Genofags are happy enough about the costume.
Sceptilefags may as well not exist.
I'd have to buy a Wii U or a 3DS and unless I've got lots of money to blow, they are not worth it.
>>321005510
It's not a glitch, Sakurai and the team noticed it in development and left it in. They just didnt expect it to be used to the extent it was.
>>321006347
>It's not a glitch, Sakurai and the team noticed it in development and left it in. They just didnt expect it to be used to the extent it was.
>It's not a glitch
>it's a glitch they noticed but left it
contradictions
>>320997249
going from not knowing how to do tilts to attending locals tourneys was amazing in melee
local melee 4 mans was the most fun i had in a game
i'm so glad all the things i enjoyed about that game were stripped away though, i was worried i'd enjoy myself in smash 4
though PM sates me just fine and i probably like it more than Melee at this point; i don't even give a shit that its development stopped, i can still play it
Why are we still arguing about alladis? No one will give up ground and it's just a war of attrition until the thread dies. Live and let live.
>>321006603
i find pm more enjoyable as well
get dolphin lets play
>>321006452
>it's a glitch they noticed but left it
he literally didn't say this you autist. he said
>it's not a glitch
>they noticed it [wavedashing] in development and left it [wavedashing] in
>>320997194
This would easily make the game better and make offense and option again. As the game stands now, a lot of characters without easy shield pressure or breaks are just fucked in terms of standing up to ZSS or Sheik.
>>321006452
are you fucking stupid? IT IS NOT A GLITCH. It is a thing that happens in the physics engine. They saw it and thought "yeah, that's fine".
ITS NOT FAIR.
>>321006347
>>321006452
I don't know where this "noticed it in development and left it in" shit came from. Wavedashing literally has it's own animation name. One of 1st things you would do during testing is see how the airdodge works when colliding with the ground
>>320997194
Slow shield regen would be nice
As far as the air goes though, what does /v/ think of Smash 4's airdodging? Is it fine as is or should it be limited?
>>321006707
That really wouldn't help fighting Sheik or ZSS. They're both dumb for completely different reasons.
>>321002365
He's better than the rest of the cast, but nobody's good enough to really break ahead with him. melee players kinda suck.
>>321006834
What's it called then? I'm curious
>>321006834
pic
>>321006707
>>321006878
It's less of sheik/zss being too good and more of most characters being dogshit awful. Sheik is by far the worst "best" character in the series
>melee players earn more money a month than you ever will just by sitting on their asses playing games
must suck not being a melee player
>>320994528
The dodging in all cases are fucking broken and ruin the game and only like 5 characters are fun to play as I don't care how much people shit on brawl it's sure as fuck better than smash4
The only reason G3 Melee has more entrants than Smash 4:
It's a Melee-focused event
In a region focused on Melee
Smash 4 players are younger and have issues traveling
Melee fans bloat their entrants count by putting in fake entries (see Apex)
EVO proved Smash 4 was the more pooular game, and rightfully so. It's sooo much more well designed than Melee, with a healthy mix of offense and defense, centered around safe pressure. And with a wide cast of viable chars. I expect Melee to last another year before Smash 4 fully overtakes it. ;_;7
>>321007116
That's just because the overall power level is lower than the other games. You probably won't die to a single grab or get cheesed at 30-60% unless you're fighting ZSS or Ryu. Sheik is just absolutely too safe and has an option for everything, even if she isn't known for early kills.
>>321007080
>played by gamers of all levels
>casuals found the roster size and base mechanical demand (recovery, dodging, grabs, shielding, movement) too overbearing (despite the lengths taken to "simplify" it) and opted out
>friends who were well versed in video games and smash found it slow and boring
and that was brawl's very short story with my collective group of friends
>>321007385
epic bait dude
>>321006810
>Rodea
Maybe if the Wii game was allowed to come out when it was done I would have hoped.
>tfw I bought the 3DS version
>>321007385
>Melee fans bloat their entrants count by putting in fake entries (see Apex)
is this something that actually happened?
>>321007261
>hand surgeries
no thanks brah
>>321007679
Hm, can you disprove any of it?
>>321007419
>casuals found the roster size and base mechanical demand (recovery, dodging, grabs, shielding, movement) too overbearing (despite the lengths taken to "simplify" it) and opted out
I wonder if casuals would like Rivals of Aether on a lower level, then. It doesn't have any grabbing, ledges, and has a tiny roster, but then again I guess its character gimmicks and other aspects of the game don't really make it any more simpler.
>>321007756
"While 1,037 players had registered for the tournament, as many as 200 players were estimated to have not shown up at their matches"
>>321001310
You doomed us all.
>>321007756
No, a blizzard caused a safety hazard at Apex's usual venue in the middle of pools and the entire tournament had to moved to a different venue across town (with the help of Red Bull and Twitch) with less than a day's notice. As a result, a good 10% of each game's entrants didn't end up playing.
>thinks tr4sh has better gameplay
>thinks tr4sh will take over melee
>is a total faggot
>thinks slow defensive gameplay is better than fast paced and aggressive
>was molested by his gym teacher
>op is a total fag
>>321007816
>I expect Melee to last another year before Smash 4 fully overtakes it. ;_;7
this has been the biggest year for melee ever and the number of entrants keep rising for each tournament.
and people were saying that about brawl too in terms of overtaking melee
>>321008290
All Smash games are inherently defensive. Almost every top Melee player is bait and punish oriented. Dashdancing and Wavedashing are highly defensive mechanics.
>>320994528
>Defensive play is actually viable now
Defensive play has always been really strong (Spacie laser camping, vanish ledge-stalling, ICs sitting in shield waiting for a wobble, Peach's turnips, Samus missile spam, literally everything about Jigglypuff, etc.). Every top tier has a great defensive playstyle except for Captain Falcon because he's a rushdown character with horrible OoS options.
>>321002869
The most boring Cloud.
>>321007981
maybe? the game's fun from what little i played of it at a friends apartment. some real clever shit there
how do people feel about air dodges in that game? i think the official smash games never had the best answer to that, and i like RoA's the most
i have smash 4 but i never play it. any advice?
>>321009053
play it
>>321008583
Dash Dancing is just a mind game strat and wavedashing is for landing, positioning, and edge guarding it has no real defensive value.
![1414184122206[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/1hrVH3x.gif "1414184122206[1].gif")
>>321009053
>>321009178
wiggly doping is what it's actually called
>>321008950
Game punishes you for being aggressive. It's easier to play to the games strengths rather than take unnecessary risks
i wish there was some way to play on 1.0.0 to compare to 1.1.3
i think some people here have lost sight of how much smash 4 improved with patches
it was straight fucking garbage on release, i actually enjoy the game enough now
>>321008583
dash dancing is aggressive. the pressure you apply when you dash dance makes THEM be defensive because YOU are the aggressor with the attacking advantage.
it can be considered "defensive" in neutral, i guess, but it really isn't. same thing with wave dashing.
>>321009510
placebo effect anon, you just got better at the game so now you enjoy it more than when it came out
>>321009510
i haven't noticed a difference except for minor nerfs to my b tier characters while anime swords and link keep getting streams of buffs.
>>321009178
>evasive mechanics
>can't be used defensively
>>321009510
If there's one thing I'm glad about, it's that Vectoring doesn't exist anymore. The only thing about it people miss is Wectoring anyways. Everything lived way too long with that shit and it made getting out of combos and strings way too easy.
>>320995749
There's nothing to save. The game is young, while Melee has momentum since 2013. That's all.
Give Smash 4 another year and it'll be clear it has even more potential than Melee.
>>321008981
It's probably the best approach for RoA itself because you can't grab a ledge and need to compensate with that and a single wall jump for everyone. I do think a single airdodge should be the limit in Smash, but whether it should be both directional AND not putting anyone into a helpless state? Debatable.
I think the RoA itself needs some more 'fun' stages. Nothing wrong with tailoring to competitive but it needs to break the mold a little to prevent itself from feeling stale, like what PM did. Equivalents of something like Pokemon Stadium and maybe even some touring stages would help. Otherwise most casual players will just see a sterile Smash clone.
>>321009510
Vectoring was pretty gay
Funny how Luigi became OP as fuck when the old Smash DI came back
>>321007116
That's why I think shield pressure for shit characters would even it up a bit. Because then they'd have to play flawlessly and not rely on the typical shield/wait meta if they don't immediately take the offensive. Its partly why I use ryu. cause they try to wait me out as I do mid tilt pokes, then I throw a sudden collar bone breaker. Usually when that happens they get pissy and walk off the last stock but whatever, I'm sick of the waiting game it became.
But I understand what you mean by awful, everything feels so limited for no reason and I think that's why Cloud and ryu took off the way they have besides being third party, cause even though the options are still bad compared to the usual duo, its the fact that they have way more options compared to most.
>>321009125
eh i dont really feel like it, dont like the long cool down after attacks in this one
The only thing I don't like about Smash is that people come up with all these ridiculous abbreviations and other terminology for simple things just to make them sound cooler, like you need a monocle to say them
It's like they got an AOLer to come up with all of it
>>320994528
>Project M
>Dosen't promote footsies
Dude project M is footsies.
>>321010052
>MORE potential
>sm4sh fans are this delusional
>>321010294
What kind of shield pressure would you even add? Faster attacking characters generally pressure shields better. A lot of the worse characters are on the slower side, with a few exceptions. Seems like most of the heavies are just getting easy grab combos to deal with shields. I won't complain about them getting buffs, but it seems kinda lazy.
>the better game
No
You can have more characters, but overall the stages are all missed opportunities, it has retarded rules for online and the balance is off.
I mean there's fun, but it's the worst fun I've ever had. Only reason I still have it is Pac-Man and the 64 stages.
64 might not have much, but it's way more fun honestly even without the smash DI. I ain't even competitive, but smash 4 is so fucking campy.
Everybody has bullshit reach with their recoveries and then you have all these other characters right next to the damn ledge and they fall to their death because they think the way to balance someone is by fucking up their recovery meanwhile they dominate fucking everything else.
>>321010592
What I meant is
>it's too early to say it failed. The first EVO with the game out and it almost broke 2k.
The first tournament of 2016 that isn't even EVO and it already has 1k entrants. This game will grow
>>321009296
As true as that is, I always play him insanely aggressive. His neutral air has no lag and the raw pressure makes them try to move or counter at the wrong time, cause for some reason people just panic when Cloud is swinging at their shield, even though he can't put a dent in it.
>>321010863
What place on Temple do you guys usually hang out at on 8-Player Smash?
I usually stay around "SWEET FREEDOM" myself.
>>321011040
Hyrule Fight Club and whatever the red zone says, I also have my finger ready to tech everything.
God I just realized that some guy in like this 13 person AIM chat I used to hang out in like 10 years ago now writes for GQ. What have I been doing with my life
>>320994528
>smash 4 promotes "footsies"
>melee doesn't
I'm not even gonna rate that one faggot. Try harder
>>321010676
Sometimes lazy is the way to go sadly, but it's ultimately better than letting the meta stagnate longer than it has. While fast attacking characters can do some pressure it doesn't mean anything if it doesn't hurt shields at all, so for fast attacks I'd have the final hit of a jab combo take a chunk off so that 2-3 full combos break the shield forcing them to retaliate instead of just waiting for the grab. As for fast characters that don't really have full on jab combos, I'd make their tilts more damaging to shields instead. But these are just off the wall ideas that would need to be looked at for every individual character and situation. I personally think its a bad idea since it might completely rework a character and potentially make a broken one, but its better than nothing.
>>321006834
>Wavedashing literally has it's own animation name.
Nope. the animation name that pops up when you wavedash in debug mode is for the puff of smoke visual effect. people misunderstood.
>>321001834
The thing I have a fucking problem with is that Marth's sword is now a goddamn butterknife.
BUFF THE RANGE SAKURAI YOU LITTLE SHIT
>>321002365
At any level below regionals, I would say that all characters are viable.
Just look at Triple R and DJ Nintendo. By far the worst, most unredeemable characters in the game and they find a way to make them work pretty well. My friend himself actually has a formidable kirby.
I do overall think that the tiers are spread too far apart but I like for the fact that it allows for a deeper counterpick strategy. Many many people never practice against low-tiers and thus they have an advantage in that regard. Plus everyone roots for them.
It's created quite the culture honestly. If I was to do melee again, I would keep the characters closer together in terms of viability but still keep some of them inherently unbalanced.
>>321011040
Hyrule Fight club.
if your not down there and making the camera zoom out fuck off and don't play with us. This game zooms out so far it sometimes strains my eyes.
>>321000678
It's not about jump height. He can't ledge snap, so any downsmash will kill him if timed right.
>>320994528
I'm so disillusioned that this looks like a troll post to me
>>321011818
OK I just realized my first post sounds a little hypocritical when compared to the second. But what I'm saying only applies for melee since sm4shfags want all the characters to be pretty much equal in terms of viability. Nothing wrong with that obviously. Just saying low tiers I think add a little somefin somefin to melee
>>320999636
100% perfect taste.
>>321011585
Well, part of shield pressure is that by forcing the opponent to shield, you can get a grab in at some point by scaring them enough, which someone like Sheik does easily. Honestly, I think for a lot of characters, their problem is that their effort doesn't justify the reward for getting in. Zelda takes a lot of precision and it's very difficult for her to land moves and combos, and she kills worse than ZSS. Roy is meant to be a high risk, high reward character but even though his tools are generally decent in terms of usability, he still struggles to kill and his reward tapers off after the low percentages where he gets his 30-40% combos. Dedede is just terrible all around, and I honestly don't know how to fix him.
>>321011841
If you time it perfectly you hit them out of any attack they were prepping. If wrong, then yeah, you're probably dead. But he does have a ledge snap if you do the second up b when he's even with the ledge. Again, do it wrong you die, but he does have a half assed ledge snap.
>>321012236
Cloud's biggest problem is recovering low. He has to aim it perfectly to not die, which I would actually like on the rest of the cast. Makes him easy as hell to spike though, especially if you're playing Cloud too.
>>321005767
>It's not competitive
>stop forcing real fighting game terms on it
The biggest fighting game community out of every fighting game community is Smash Melee. LMAOing @ ur life
>>320994528
Can I play Knuckles in it?
No?
Oh, okay then, I'll stick to Project Meme then.
>>321012724
No, but you can play your original character Bluckles
>>321012208
In, theory that's how ideal pressure works with breaks not being a major factor. The problem I have though is that setting up for grabs is everyone's plan whether it works for the character or not which is why I wanted to change it to break shield more often, so they have to stay mobile, which makes more room for error, which makes certain character's ideal setups far more possible. For the character's you mentioned, I would make Zelda's neutral b shred shield after 2 or 3 hits, Roy has reliable shield wearing with fsmash and neutral b, Dedede is tricky though. His fsmash already works well on shields but its too slow to matter. I think his projectile might be ok for it though, since they usually get hit back anyway. Him and Duck Hunt are the main ones I though of being broken if they had the same changes.
>>321012941
>>321013465
Dedede probably wouldn't be broken. This character is just bad. The only things he has going for him is huge attacks and the fact that he doesn't die that easily. His kill power isn't even very good outside of two extremely telegraphed attacks.
>>321013174
>Brawl fans just play PM
Overhaul mods like PM and Brawl- generally have their own niche fanbases
Does Brawl even have a fanbase anymore? Outside of its already established modding community, I think Smash 4 kind of made it irrelevant for the most part, who already retreads over a lot of Brawl's ground but does it better.
>>321012590
That's why I love Cloud mirrors, it really lets creativity in kills and recovery shine when played aggressive, and the crazy shit that happens when both are fighting off stage is fun to play and watch.
I do agree that most recoveries in the game are generally bullshit and feel way too generous, especially when factors like magnetism come in.
it feels like heavies in smash trade everything for kill power and are clearly balanced for free-for-alls
i haven't seen any of the big boys besides donkey kong on For Glory in my last 100 matches, unless you want to group Ike there
>>321012941
Does he chuckle though?
>>321013840
Well I enjoy (I'll use this loosely) Smash 4 mostly for the online multiplayer, I work 40 Hours plus a week so its hard sometimes to get together with friends to play. Plus having it on the go with the 3ds version is a fun way to pass time.
I don't think vanilla Brawl has a lot of fans anymore, we moved to Project M then Smash 4. After playing them both you can see a fair amount of flaws that Brawl had which kept it out of the competitive scene which Melee has been a champion of for the past few years.
>>321003427
>>Amsa - Yoshi
>>Plup - Samus
>>Abate - Luigi
>>Kage - Ganondorf
Show me some 1st place finishes for these characters. you've got 13 years to pull from, surely there are dozens at least.
>>320995105
shut up cuck
>>321014191
What do you fucking think, nerd? You think he's like Sonic? You'd be incorrect in that assumption, motherfucker.
>No big smash tourney until January
Kill me
>>320994528
Tr4sh is a shallow game that will last about as long as Brawl did before it's abandoned. People will not look back once Smash 5 is announced, while there will still be a big community for Melee.
>>320994925
>camping is what Sm4sh is known for
Gee, guess that's why Samus is S tier and Zero Suit and Pikachu are bottom.
>>321016454
hopefully in smash 5 they can get a reduce the end lag on stuff so you'll actually be able to combo
>>321014975
Watch Forte 3 from last night if you haven't already. Westballz vs. Wobbles was some good shit, more than enough to hold me over.
>>321016479
>replying to a 4 hour old shitpost
>>321017480
You know that won't happen. Sakurai thinks that it would scare people away.
>>321003845
Shiek doesn't dominate Sm4sh, ZeRo does
>>320994528
Fuck off, autistic shill
>>320994528
because autistic babbies whining they have to develop new strategies and not just use the same ones they've been using for a decade plus
>>321020201
>>321020268
never change /v/
>>321020268
>new strategies
Top Melee players are top 4 players. The game is already a dried up well of depth.
>>321020268
>>321020201
These two being next to each other is fucking great
