I'm working on a game like Dungeon Keeper and i'd like suggestions on what you would like to see in a game like that.
A Mistress minion type that improves moral and combat effectiveness of near by units. Make her a total slut.
>>320933703
>>320933621
Good AI.
>>320933703
That kinda already exists in dungeon keeper however that's actually a fairly good idea.
Obligatory fps mode.
Btw, war for the overworld is an okay game.
Good creature design and quirks like in DK1. Creature training like in DK2
this is amazing how this game didn't aged at all.
all gameplay mechanics are perfect
>>320933621
Hero mode
>Anime
>Stop the otakus from raiding your maidu cafe and stealing that loli booty
>Traps such as Traps, pits made of prostate massagers or dildos, onahole wall clingers
>Banned in Australia
>Multiplayer which everybody just uses to ERP
>>320933929
>DK1
Yeah, I liked DK1 alot more than DK2. I couldn't get pasted the amount of changes they made however i've got to play it and crack that nut.
>>320933878
WFTO is alright. FPS will be easy to do.
>>320934006
>Hero mode
Define this. Hero's although technically exist you know hero monsters like wizards already are in the games.
So, you'll need to explain it.
>>320934013
I don't know what to say.
>>320933621
Cute girls and fanservice
>>320934013
maybe not as much weebshit as this guy wants but he gets the idea.
There already some dungeon Keeper clones most of them are mediocre.
Cute girls will give you the edge. I mean you want to make money after all...
>>320933621
I'd like to see the ability to capture and corrupt enemy units.
Dungeon Keeper already sort of had that, but you just converted them to your side without corrupting them.
>>320934212
>>320934006
Siege pre built bases with a limited number of heroes. Maybe without infinite spawning monster for the AI keeper
>>320934212
>Yeah, I liked DK1 alot more than DK2.
Eh, they've both got pros and cons.
Overall I like the first better as well, but the second one was good in its own way.
>>320934230
So, What your saying is a succubus and other types of demon/creature?
>>320934334
Well, Doesn't the torture chamber corrupt them?
>>320934370
That's actually a pretty good idea, I liked the campaign fighting bases of hero's to get stuff.
>>320934212
> Hero mode
Dark lord, we hero now. Our mission is to breach walls of dark lord and remove his heart, thus breaking his link to this world, then finish off his army of nightmarish fiends.
>>320934428
>Doesn't the torture chamber corrupt them?
That's what I mean. It just converts them to your side, it doesn't actually corrupt them or anything. They're still the same unit, except now they work for you. I'm talking about actually having corrupted versions of hero units.
Microtransactions.
>>320934530
I'M CHUMS WITH THE DUNGEON KEEPER
>>320934428
No, it breaks them into submission.
See, difference between hurting someone until he wishes to cooperate and tempting them with what they want. He wants riches? My paladin, you will have all the riches and maidens, just join our diabolic band.
>>320934428
The hero player could also probably have an hero/noble character that act like the dungeon core for the keeper. If he is killed it's a loss condition for the heroes. The player should be probably able to control it like a normal rats unit since it would be pretty annoying to have him always charge
>>320933621
The game was great but once the wall that separate the realms is breached, everything went down very quickly and decisively. If you can make fighting less about a single big fight and more about many clashes that are not entirely under player's control, it would be cool.
Also, remove the hand tool. Even though it's annoying to wait for AI to comply, I'd rather watch my demons push unwilling humans to the torture chamber than just dropping them directly into it. Or the same applies to battles, I don't want to be able to directly control anything.
In short, keep the good bits, add Majesty like gameplay.
>>320934659
Raid leader. The word is raid leader. After all, you're raiding this dark dungeon, full of goblins and skeletons.
>>320934491
I think your saying just a single unit siege a base, right? In which case the Special missions had that in DK1 and wouldn't be to hard to do.
>>320934519
Oh, So like a light side and a dark side? same unit but they are a dark version of it maybe with new powers.
>>320934530
Could be done but as long as it doesn't take away from the gameplay. >>320934628 This game did take away from the gameplay and destroyed the game for transactions.
>>320934635
Oh, I get what you mean different types of torture to turn creatures that may have different "tastes"
>>320934659
Now, I understand what you mean. Yes! I've actually had a similar idea of allowing the core to walk around as a hero.
>>320934635
Wait, so you mean, shit like throwing paladins in the casino rather than in the torture chamber, or throwing elves and nuns in the dolphin rape cave to turn them into dark elves and semen demons?
>>320933621
Multi-layered dungeons with stairways, ladders, lifts and portals.
>add a editor to make maps
>units like dragons>dogs>cerberus>spiders
>some kind of huge unit that cost a lot and destroys the map as he walks (i mean walls . not a shit "destroyed ground" animation)
dunno i'm out of ideas
Themes.
>>320934847
>Layers
Yeah, I saw a game like that on steam.
It's called Dwelvers. I may do something similar.
>>320934897
>>320934897
>Themes.
Will be done.
>>320934832
This could be cool if done right. I mean it's hard to imagine throwing some Paladin on a torture rack and he goes like aight I'm on your side now let's kill some innocents. Maybe give heroes some basic personality type that determines what their exploitable weaknesses are. Like Dwarves love gold so they can be bribed, Paladins are religious so you can send them to one of those dark temple type places, etc.
Meme Keeper.
>>320933974
Actually the mechanics in the sequel are lackluster compared to the original game. They completely fucked with mana, made the ui a chore to navigate through where you end up casting heal on creatures on your screen and that dizzy effect whenever you drop your minion is just plain annoying.
>>320935024
Alright, That would be cool. I was thinking about expanding stats and doing something similar but that sounds pretty cool.
>>320934919
>Dwelvers
Gonna have to check it then.
Everything DK1 had, and you're set OP.
I still play it to this day, the custom challenges that comes with KeeperFX keepd me entertained for hours.
>>320933621
how about an original idea faggot instead of taking someone elses
make it a lot more like dk1 than dk2
a lot of newer dk games make the mistake of copying dk2 which means that they're always meh
also make sure to add a lot of TECHNOLOGY and detail
if you're going to have a mana system, make it not shit
disease outbreaks that can mutate your creatures, turn them into freakbeasts or kills them
>>320935107
>that dizzy effect whenever you drop your minion is just plain annoying
I think that was mostly just a way to prevent you from picking up a bunch of guys and just dumping them on top of the enemy whenever someone enters your dungeon.
I think >>320934750 is right about the hand tool though. Picking units up and just dropping them where you need them is a pretty shitty mechanic that takes away from the feeling of actually mamaging a dungeon.
Just like in actual dungeon keeper give us the ability to turn enemy troops into minions I fucking loved making an entire human squad
make sure there's semen demons
also make sure that certain minions have cool interactions with other minions
ie: mistresses hate samurai, warlocks hate vampires (and also fire fireballs at imps if they go in the library while researching)
Don't make a first person/mind control spell that is insanely overpowered like in DK 2
![SE4BJqx[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/iS4BtmR.png "SE4BJqx[1].png")
>>320935142
DK is fucking great. I love voice of announcer in DK 2 better, though.
>>320935283
I like that idea a little 40K.
>>320935253
>if you're going to have a mana system, make it not shit
I'm not entirely sure what to do with that. Mana systems are just bad because it doesn't lock in with the spell system with DK.
WFTO is a great example, gold doesn't really do much anymore.
>>320935292
That's not entirely true. Because you've gotta micro manage your dungeon and defend it from multiplier and if you forget to drop units in key places you could lose everything because they could break a weak section of monsters and push to your heart.
>>320935398
Going to happen, Don't worrier. I can't imagine why i wouldn't have it.
>>320935412
Done.
>>320935414
I haven't played DK2 as much as DK1. Please explain.
Make sure to adds lots of unnecessary detail
>>320935628
>Make sure to adds lots of unnecessary detail
For what reason? Because WFTO seems a bit like that the UI is a cluster.
Your dungeon floor is lumpy. Order your imps to jump up and down.
decapitations and burned/electrified effects?
>>320935684
He probably meant dismemberment and gore.
>>320935762
>decapitations and burned/electrified effects?
>>320935771
Oh, That sounds like an interesting idea like if a monster is sliced and injured they lose an arm or a head.
>>320935576
The Possession spell is insanely overpowered
>>320935841
Well, In DK1 it was because you could walk into the enemy dungeon with a level 10 knight and kill their core however at later stages the chicken spell made this undo-able.
>>320935831
stuff like minions hating some other minions or giving them randomised personalities that affect their stats and how they react to things
could also have an armory room that's like the workshop, where your minions can make improved armor/weapons (or you could sell these items and make money)
there should be a decent emphasis on managing an economy
>>320935928
In both games, it's pretty unbalanced. You can kill anything as anything else, just by dodging and attacking at the right times. It turns the game into a shitty ARPG.
>>320935762
>>320935831
>decapitations
it may be heard to do
for each monster you would have to create same models without body parts
>>320936076
>there should be a decent emphasis on managing an economy
Yeah, I've got a similar idea written down already.
>>320936076
>stuff like minions hating some other minions or giving them randomised personalities
Going to be done.
>>320936197
I don't know about removing it, its kinda needed. I'd rather think about ways to counter it.
Like an anti possession spell.
>>320936319
>it may be heard to do
>for each monster you would have to create same models without body parts
Actually. You don't.
This is what most games do for this, they will use an alpha to hide the section that is damage or destroyed.
Left 4 Dead had a good version of this, I'll link you to the GDC information.
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiDo7bB_uzJAhWlJaYKHZldABAQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.valvesoftware.com%2Fpublications%2F2010%2Fgdc2010_vlachos_l4d2wounds.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFW-5tHNamC6Zp5B7X3bbvQSQ7WDQ
Sorry about the long link.
>>320936559
Here, let me unfuck that for you.
http://www.valvesoftware.com/publications/2010/gdc2010_vlachos_l4d2wounds.pdf
>>320936319
>for each monster you would have to create same models without body par
can't you just copy the whole model and cut the arm/head/leg ?
>>320936628
Yeah, For some reason it wasn't doing the popup stuff. Thanks!
>>320936629
Well, I did mention alphas but you could do a few different ways.
You could do alphas, You could just turn everything off that is attach to the bone however you've got the issue of memory.
If you load a new model on screen that model needs to be put into memory however you've also got to remove the old one from memory and this is a hard that's why alot of games shrink it before destroying it.
>>320935189
I kinda agree with this bumblefuck, though I also want to be constructive with it.
So, OP. Consider if you please the eras games of this genre were published.
Dungeon Keeper and Dungeon Keeper 2 were at a time where dungeon-crawlers were still a thing. This is why people could both relate to the idea, and the devs could have so many ideas of their own to pour in. So sure, if you look at the existing games themselves, you can just refine a bit the idea, but if you look at their origin, your horizons expand with things like forcing fetchquests and riddles to repel hero parties while you shore up your defenses and the likes.
Then there's also another issue: War for the Otherworld exists. And I doubt you have the DK2 announcer, kickstarter jewbucks and the likes behind you. Let's be honest, you'll probably have either pretty easy unity assets, or shitty pixel art to back you up in mind, and generally, I don't think "Like dungeon keeper, but..." will work really well.
So, how about you consider these games exist, why they existed in their time, and do something with it. In these days, people were playing dungeon crawlers. Now, they're playing MOBAS (which are utterly uninteresting) or MMORPGs, which are more exploitable.
So from that idea, I could see a dungeon-keeper-like, but with more of an emphasis on setting up bosses, customizing their patterns, having to pick your rooms not just for their viability in your economic dungeon, but also as bossfight arenas.
It's just a shitty example I thought of while showering. The point is, I doubt you have EA money behind you, so unless you find a way to really make your own mark either from great esthetics, a core, fundamental idea, no matter what cool little bits and semen demons you put in, you'll just be "another taiwanese dungeon keeper clone, but bad low poly and on iOS"
>>320934628
I'M HORNY
>>320933621
Picrelated obviously, also slutty witches, slutty sorceress grills, big variety of creatures in general, especially if they constantly conflict with each other so you either disregard some types of monsters for others, or learn to control them, more rooms with interesting functions and what is most impotrant, add room which functions like barracks, but instead of possesing one of the creatures you create a "battlegroup" which can be easily controlled in a RTS fashion, because total lack of control over your units is annoying, rally works like shit, and possessed creature via barracks is way too gimmicky, nevermind that if it dies or you un-possess it everyone following it will stop giving a shit.
>>320933621
Lots of unit variety, lots of abilities for each unit (complaint for DK2; creatures suddenly had fewer powers). Give creatures unique features and cool interactions.
Make creature attacks powerful and meaty-feeling (complaint for DK2; lightning, as an example, felt stronger in its thudding beam-like form in the first game than the sparking tendrils of the second).
Make sure that the AI can't do anything that the player couldn't do with the same resources (complaint for DK1; heroes could use tunneller dwarves to dig, you couldn't).
Don't be afraid to use high-quality sprites, if it's better than the 3D art available to you.
It's okay to use more stock or generic fantasy creatures with your own twist. but don't make them TOO bland (complaint for DK2; Dragons in the first game were superior to Salamanders in the second game in every way).
>>320937765
Pre-made Unity Assets? I'd rather make things myself as for pixel art its easier just to model it and paint the textures.
Now. Funds. You don't require massive amounts of funds to develop a game however i will have to invest in some at a later point because let's face it will be required to maintain and expand the game after shipping.
>>320939040
>(complaint for DK1; heroes could use tunneller dwarves to dig, you couldn't).
Actually that's wrong. AI Dwarfs if capture can dig tunnels but its a specific type of dwarf that digs it and they can move creatures to the prison.
I found this out in the final mission of DK after capturing dwarfs from their first attack on my heart after you kill the avatar.
>>320937765
>Dungeon Keeper and Dungeon Keeper 2 were at a time where dungeon-crawlers were still a thing.
Nobody makes dungeon crawlers nowadays, and if they did it would certainly be a big flop!
>>320939040
>>320939440
Should of done this in a single post. Anyhow, I'll be trying to do all that. Creatures and Models, AI.
I don't want to take generic creatures i'd rather invest in creating my own that are similar but not nearly the same.
Models as mention in a previous post aren't that hard to do, so they will naturally be done. Sprites would be fun but i don't like them but they looked nice in dungeon keeper.
>>320939040
Attacks would be a confirm thing, if an attack doesn't seem powerful or like its doing something then you've got a problem.
>>320939440
When you say AI, do you mean enemy keepers/hero factions, or AI helper assignments? Because I could remember no amount of cojoling letting me assign the tunnellers to such a task.
Gothic or Vampire Lolis.Ideally both.
>>320939902
I mean hero faction that spawns after killing the avatar.
>>320933621
>final level of the first Dungeon Keeper
>it's hard as balls, but i somehow manage to pull through
>push back blue keeper's army constantly knocking at my door and defeat him
>throw gorillion monsters at the Avatar and finally take him down
>game just continues on
>reload
>capture the Avatar
>torture him and convert him
>game just continues on
>exit the game and youtube the ending video
I got so pissed off and felt cheated, especially since the last level was goddamn hard and took me a couple of hours before I finally gained the upper hand.
>>320940021
>>320940103
Yeah, I remember doing the samething and thinking what the hell. Little did i know what was coming..
>>320940021
You had to kill the Avatar twice. After he died once after a pause your base would explode with level 10 heroes and an Avatar as an ultimate fuck you if you didn't trap all the hero portals.
And the best way to kill the enemy keeper was using the Avatar. Just blow him into their base and he would destroy the heart.
>>320940193
What do you mean?
sex and slave waifus
FUNNELING YOUR FUNDS TO ME, CAN YOU COMPUTE
>>320940221
Fuck... I don't have the game anymore and I was convinced that it was a bug.
>>320940261
>What do you mean?
Capturing the avatar and then finding out that there was an attack incoming from those portals on the edges of the map near the gems.
>>320940640
Don't worrier you can buy it online now and it works with Windows 7 - 10.
>>320939982
>milf gothic lolis
>>320933621
Microtransactions where you can buy special resources to speed up building your dungeon
sacrificial pyre where you sacrifice maidens on
a demon pit which you can summon monsters from even you cannot control
A last stand building which when broken down by the intruders causes the whole base to break down in a bomb sequence-like moment
qt vampire monsters
ability to drain levels
thiefing monsters that just piss peopel off badly
teleporter tiles which dont make any noise when triggered, same with turning tiles
ability to turn heroes evil and send them at their old party
>>320940883
>milf lolis
>>320940937
That's kinda silly and takes away from the gameplay.
Possibility to make an entirely female team to work your dungeon.
Lilim, lilith, succubus, high succubus, succubus mistress, hell lady, evil nun, temptress, occult loli, special building that improve female warriors
>>320941053
my cousin is 40 years old with a loli body and 2 kids
>not knowing what i mean with gothic milf loli after posting shinobu
>>320935547
cyka )))
>>320941240
now that you say that
make units both . male and female , clearly a little box to toggle it with male/female/random/original
>>320941326
>with a loli body
Ding ding ding. Loli is a body type ya dingus.
Make a system that you get a reward for placing down treasure. Yes it will make the enemy stronger but you get something in return.
>>320941570
You mean like dropping coin on the ground and baiting imps to collect it?
>>320941654
I dont know but something that would explain why dungeon crawlers always have treasure for heroes to use. Maybe something like superconduction armor which then makes your lightning traps more effective.
>>320941739
I would assume that the hero's bases would in fact be the lower levels of castles and would then explain the massive amounts of treasures that lay there.
>>320933621
Dungeon Keeper is by far my favorite game series but it has one glaring flaw: torture chambers.
Torture chambers are retardedly overpowered. You can convert every single enemy to your side, so that any encounter with the enemy that you don't flat out lose makes you way, way stronger. A 10v10 battle, even if you narrowly win the battle with just one creature still standing, will get you 20 creatures in the end, effectively doubling your power and trivializing the entire map. The last level of Dungeon Keeper 2, for example, has endless waves of enemies coming at you. If you've been diligently converting enemies, then by the time you reach the final boss you have literally hundreds of creatures on your side. It turns what could have been an epic battle in to a gang bang.
Torture chambers remove all balance from the game.
>>320942004
Alright. So you've found the flaw. Now how would you go about fixing the problem?
>>320941570
Dungeons did this shit and it was awful.
>hurr make the enemy take a scenic tour of your dungeon before you kill them
>>320942121
Glad you asked. An obvious fix would be to remove it entirely. A bit heavy handed, but it does fix the problem. Another option would be to limit the amount of creatures that can be converted. For example, you might have a few enemies scattered around the map that have a certain dark lining around their health circle. The darkness would indicate darkness in their hearts (or whatever, make up whatever bullshit you want) that lets them be corrupted. Getting and extra five minions to bolster your team of 20 is not nearly as broken as no limit conversions.
Add this to the suggestion someone made earlier in the thread about minions being "corrupted" and not merely switching sides and you could have a few, meaningful units instead of a massive clusterfuck swarm.
-More food variety (some sort of simple underground farming system, use of adventurers for food when times get rough)
-Have room placement have more meaning, for example if you build a mindflayer lair next to a goblin den make it so that they are more annoyed than usual.
-Make big units that require a big investment, and that are more suited for base defense. Dragons and Beholders come to mind.
Just my 2 cents.
>>320942601
The problem is you have to balance fun with, well, actual balance.
Torture chambers are fun and thematically appropriate, so removing them would be a bad idea.
It's been a very long time since I played DK, but IIRC there's a cap on how many creatures you can get by normal means. So the best way to make sure torture chambers aren't overpowered is to make converted creatures count against that cap. That way you can choose to use regular creatures of converted heroes. Or, for example, if you've been in a fight and a bunch of your shits got killed, you can use the captured heroes to replace them without actually becoming upstoppable from having twice as many creatures suddenly.
>>320942601
>>320942943
Here's the thing, I agree with you it can be annoying to see an enemy dungeon doing good and this leads to "strikes" of lighting to kill enemy creatures that are a threat.
However, I like the ability to claim creatures and reclaim enemy creatures from prisoners.
I don't think limiting it would be a better idea.
Instead you need to focus on what's creating the bounty of new creatures and that is battle, battle is what you should be focusing on.
>>320942943
I agree that torture chambers are fun, but there are a wealth of interesting ideas you could explore and your game would not necessarily be worse off with their removal.
There is a cap on creatures in both DK1 and DK2, but converted creatures don't count toward it. You could make them count, but then you'd hit your max creatures in the first battle and your torture chamber would be useless for the rest of the game.
By making only certain creatures convertible, you incentivize exploring. For example, you might find treasure in a side room or you might find a convertible hero. You can also work with risk/reward to make gameplay interesting. For example, a room might have a huge group of enemies, but one of them is convertible so the player may need to decide if he wants to take that risk.
>>320943261
>battle is what you should be focusing on.
In what way would you suggest altering battles such that you don't get an overwhelming amount of new creatures flooding your dungeon?
>>320943683
>You could make them count, but then you'd hit your max creatures in the first battle and your torture chamber would be useless for the rest of the game.
Just make combat more lethal. It always felt silly how you've got knights and wizards fighting against monsters and demons, and yet nobody ever bothers to kill anyone, they just knock them out. With higher attrition, converting enemies becomes less of a way to build an invincible legion and more a way to simply not run out of fodder.
>>320943804
I'd probably just bring it down to luck, will i get lucky that i will disable this creature? Or will i kill this creature in a single blow?
>>320944061
>>320944128
Luck isn't really an interesting gameplay mechanic, though. You'll either feel like you're getting way too many converts or not enough. If players feel like they aren't getting enough converts, they can just save before a battle and reload until they get them which ruins the balance of the game anyway.
>>320944358
Well, You can randomize luck and put percentages in.
>>320944358
>if you're too casual, you can just cheat like a casual
Yes, and?
>>320944518
The point I'm trying to make is that people can manipulate "luck" in video games. It doesn't add anything.
>>320944627
Neither does removing a good mechanic just because you can't balance it.
>>320944773
I've offered a suggestion for balancing it. One that does not rely on luck and can be used as part of your risk/reward design and to create interesting level design. Making enemies have a chance to die instead of being captureable does not fix the underlying problem, it just makes the underlying problem scale more slowly.
>>320944986
Not just enemies, also your own creatures.
Like I said, it's stupid how there's constant fights of good vs evil, but nobody ever gets hurt, worst case scenario they get knocked out and have to rest a while. Having a couple enemies for the express purpose of letting them get converted feels meaningless. At that point you're just following the steps the map designer planned out for you.
>>320945259
>At that point you're just following the steps the map designer planned out for you.
You say that like it's a bad thing. Good level design beat RNG bullshit every time.
>>320945574
I remember some of the harder dk1 levels and the deeper dungeon levels being extremely open ended and they worked pretty well
(though a lot of the deeper dungeons levels outright punished first time players which is a bit mean, but whatever)
>>320945574
I don't think you really get the point of base management games.
Shit being as open ended as possible is half the fun. If you can only do the things the developer specifically tells you to do, you might as well go play a puzzle game instead.
>>320945672
>>320945752
I'm not saying you shouldn't make the game open ended, I'm saying that convertible minions will become one of the reason to dig around and explore.
Clearly you guys are opposed to the idea, so let's change tracks. Instead of adding flat percentages to minions on whether they will be capturable or not, what ways have you seen games scale down your growth without stopping it completely? I've been playing Rimworld a lot recently, and in that game there is an AI that throws threats and part of its job is to prevent your from getting way too many colonists. The more you have, the less likely enemies will be capturable, while if you have few more will be capturable. Dungeon Keeper could benefit from a system like this to help slow down dungeon growth.
>>320946335
>The more you have, the less likely enemies will be capturable, while if you have few more will be capturable.
That sounds pretty good actually.
Something I just thought of it to have some kind of risk/reward thing. Like, if you have a shitload of heroes, next time you fight some other heroes they can convert them back to the good side, leaving you with twice as many enemies to fight.
This encourages the player to balance the number of heroes they use with the number of monsters they use and gives them an incentive to kill off heroes they don't need instead of just converting literally everyone. Like, if you have a lot of converted Dwarves and you capture a Paladin, you may choose to get rid of the Dwarves in order to make sure you can safely control your Paladin. Or you can choose to keep converting as many as you can, but then you risk them rebelling against you and overpowering your monsters.
