Can someone get me the picture that shows how dumbed down the elder scrolls dungeons became over time? Thanks. Pic unrelated.
I am also interested
Bamp
>morrowind is the best u guise thread
no
that pic is misleading. most morrowind dungeons are small and linear.
>>320774834
Some are. Some are extremely large and non-linear. Don't cherrypick.
Also this is now the Morrowind general. I'm going to hang out here while I become the Walter White of Vvardenfell.
I hated the dungeons in Oblivion.
The only two game series that really do dungeons right are TLOZ and Dungeon Crawling RPGs (SMT, Etrian Odyssey, Diablo). Since you actually feel like you're exploring a dungeon and not a hallway or a linear cave.
Morrowind dungeons are simple as fuck in comparison the randomly generated labyrinths in Daggerfall
Right now I'm outside a skooma lab, going to clear it out so some junkie and I can start cooking our own met- I mean skooma.
3 seconds in google you gay fuck
it's no wonder you like to pretend to like more sophisticated games
>>320774834
At least they feel like real places, rather than Skyrim's endless video gamey dungeons.
I've killed the top drug chef so I guess that makes me the Gordon Ramsey of this kitchen.
>>320776592
How cherry picked are these? I didn't really play Skyrim but surely the dungeons aren't that bad?
My sonic boots broke so now it's a long slow walk to an armorer ;_;
>>320777157
The Skyrim ones are that bad, the Oblivion one is cherry-picked (not a lot of variety in layout across the map), and I can't speak for the Morrowind one.
>>320777157
Yes they are that bad.
Now I'm back to Red and my boots are patched up, thank ALMSIVI.
>>320777157
They are exactly that bad. Literally impossible to get lost in them.
>>320777752
Morrowind and oblivion are cherry picked
It's just a bait picture.
http://trainwiz.tumblr.com/post/103227155704/ive-seen-this-pic-a-couple-times-and-you-know
Complete version.
Anyone got one for Fallout 3/NV/4?
>>320777810
Now I'm running around hiring sentries. Which is weird because I haven't been taught how to cook, nor has Red shown me he can cook.
I feel like I could write a much better quest, but I'm too lazy.
>>320776592
Aren't most Skyrim dungeons a circle? It seems like almost every one of them looped back around and led you to the entrance instead of having an exit.
>>320777752
The Morrowind one is one of the first dungeons in the game.
>>320778476
For dialogue? Best I can do.
What race do I construct a waifu with?
>>320778413
I feel that morrowind was the sweet spot
>>320778753
I seriously doubt Bethesda is going to manage to get a GameBryo game looking like the bottom image.
>>320777157
The Morrowind is one main quest related dungeon. Most of them are just little tombs with a couple identical rooms
>>320778625
Some of them were passes that technically counted as two locations.
>>320778893
hopefully they'll at least look into a new engine now that Fallout 4 is getting such low scores
>>320779062
They should just use id's engine.
>>320778981
But pretty much all of Morrowind's quest related dungeons are sprawling, non-linear affairs. Skyrim has Blackreach, and that's about it.
>>320779062
>>320779130
FO4 is pretty much the last game Bethesda can get away with using this engine. If they use it again for the next TES, they're going to be universally shit on.
>>320779263
I don't know about that. I've seen several people say it's not really the engine that's the problem, it's Bethesda. I don't know anything about game development, so I can't comment either way on that.
>>320780087
Creation Engine is aging and FO4 was really pushing what the engine can handle. It needs to be put to rest. Bethesda is also part of the problem. They refuse to develop a new engine, merely upgrade the one they already have. They take the lazy route for a lot of things.
trying to play morrowind, is min maxing stats important? because I feel like I'm just cheesing the leveling system to ensure that I get 15 points per level
>>320780231
>>320779263
BUT MUH MODS
>>320780087
Everyone has been making a new engine for their games for the new gen. CDPR did it for TW3, KojiPro did it for MGS5, even Bethesda's own DOOM is doing it. Meanwhile this shit is STILL using Morrowind's engine under a different alias, adding some newer lighting effects on top to hide all the flaws.
>>320780424
No that's what you're supposed to do. Although you should be putting one point into luck every time instead of getting three traits to x5.
>>320780429
What the fuck are you talking about? Modding is an important part to fixing Bethesda games, but I don't think Bethesda has cited mods as a reason they havent upgraded their engine yet.
>>320774834
That pic is misleading, but not because it picked a fairly big Morrowind dungeon. I will never understand why the cretor of that pic decided to cheat with the Oblivion and Skyrim dungeons, since especially in the case of Skyrim it doesn't really make a difference in terms of linearity. Fact is though, generally speaking Skyrim dungeons are much bigger in terms of size. Sure they are linear corridors, but they are long as shit linear corridors.
>>320780429
You joke, but that's a legitimate concern. There are probably a lot of people who wouldn't buy Bethesda games at all if not for mods.
>>320777157
There are a fair share of big, complex dungeons that are both quest related and non-quest related in Morrowind, but there are also some small boring ones, particularly tombs.
Oblivion is quite similar in that quest dungeons are bigger, but has boring ass caves instead of tombs.
Skyrim literally has fairy lights leading you around.
>>320781175
Thematically speaking there's no need for all Vvardenfell tombs to be giant affairs. Dwemer strongholds should be non-linear, though. And for the most part they are.
>>320777886
It is literally impossible to get lost in any of the post-Daggerfall dungeons though.
I died a little inside when I finished that final dungeon on Red Mountain. After that I simply stopped caring.
Doesn't matter if it hurts modding, Frankensteining new code into Gamebryo can only do so much. Shit needs to be put to rest already
>>320781335
That's true, but they could've made less of them, with each being more distinct and complex. As it is, some of them are actually a downright waste of time.
That reminds me. Those FUCKING egg mines. That shit was probably meant as a warning about what was to come in terms of dungeon design.
>>320781335
Have a compilation of every single dwemer stronghold in the game.
>>320780949
Oblivions dungeons are completely devoid of clutter or unique layouts, they ALL borrow from a warehouse with preset areas within them, just rearranged in different ways.
>>320781620
Again, thematically, what did you really expect? They're caves with kwama queens in them. You can harvest the eggs. That's why they're there. No there's not going to be interesting loot in them.
>>320781703
Still no reason to use only one section of the dungeon you are using for comparison. Especially if you are also including a Daggerfall dungeon (which granted the original did not), since it's the exact same shit on a much larger scale.
>>320781739
Thematics isn't an excuse for dozens of practically empty egg mines that diverted manpower from development of more interesting and fun areas to explore.
>>320781739
>>320781335
This same "thematic" argument can be made for Skyrim's simplistic areas, except Skyrim actually manages to make each area have something unique, even if it is small or insignificant. That shit was designed with exploration and discovery in mind, and while it's far from the best at that, Morrowind's umpteen worthless mines and tombs were nothing but filler.
>>320781703
Morrowind also does this, but it is more flagrant when it comes to decorations. I wish there was one of these >>320781675 for all of the tombs just so I could see exactly how many have that one bedroom area with the exact same shelves, a bed, and a table in the middle with a pile of gold and an open copy of N'gasta! Kvata! Kvakis! on it. Or all the Daedric Shrines so I could see how many have those two chests behind the statue, the left one containing scrolls/books and the right one containing potions without fail.
>>320781980
I just think they didn't exploit them enough. There should have been a quest chain where Redoran and Hlaalu fight over control of ALL the egg mines. There should have been some way to corner the market and price gouge people when they go to buy food. It would have made the world seem more alive even if the end result was just Redoran territory peasants complaining about the rise in food prices.
>>320783014
Of course. I just find it mind boggling that there's like, what, 30 of these mines and as far as I can recall only one of them is of any note. They probably had something big planned like your suggestion but ran out of time.
>>320776262
>Having to navigate through a literal labyrinth with a confusing 3d map
>Needing to cast recall at the start of every dungeon or you would never get out
>tfw dungeons in RPGs will never be like this again
>>320783318
>recall at the start of every dungeon
Oh shit nigga what the fuck are you doing. You cast the recall right in front of the quest giver to save on travel time and ensure you have more than just a day to find your target once you arrive to the dungeon.
>>320777752
>I can't speak for the Morrowind one.
I can. It's pretty much the only dungeon in the game that's that open and complex.
>>320783318
I actually really like this in System Shock 1 as well, compared to SS2. Though the maps aren't quite as vertical as in Daggerfall, but they're much more elaborate than the decks in the sequel
>>320783586
Completely wrong.
>>320783560
No dude, but see, when you enter a dungeon, the quest objects are at one of several predetermined locations, so if your objective is at one of the locations you can't get to, you exit and reenter the dungeon to get a new instance generated.
>>320775416
Except even the largest dungeon of Morrowind is smaller than Blackreach.
And Morrowind has warehoused dungeons.
>>320783858
Fair enough. Personally I always considered that cheating, but yeah, that works.
>>320780949
Despite Skyrim's general linearity, there is much more complexity than the maps depict. Rectangular "rooms" have a lot going on in Skyrim, almost always involving some vertical variety, walls and pillars, and plenty of natural obstacles which feel organic and real. Morrowind might have some larger and more sprawling maps, but those are literally just straight hallways and open rooms with no definition outside of clutter objects and the occasional ledge that requires levitation to reach.
>>320783865
Except Blackreach is essentially an indoors exterior.
You know what else is an indoors exterior, except even bigger and therefore by your definition better? The Daedric planes in Oblivion.
>>320784786
to be fair the 8 of them were pretty nice it's just too bad that there are 8 for over 60 doors.
>>320784307
But don't you see, anon. That map is a masterpiece of dungeon design. Skyrim can't hold a candle to it.
>>320784930
Yeah they're nice but my point is they can't be compared to a traditional dungeon with fixed corridors and rooms like that guy is trying to.
>>320785103
>all that hand placed loot
what are you trying to prove, anon?
>>320785448
Just posted a couple dungeons is all.
>>320784454
You are right. Despite that though, you are usually following a linear path, even if that path is sometimes a caged road above the path you just came from.Which is fine by me, I never understood the point of branching corridors when they are so short. Like, takes 5 seconds to reach a dead end short. That's hardly exciting. Maybe if they had 10 times as many of them and turned it into a maze.
Of course there are always some exceptions.
I'd rather have an interesting linear dungeon than a boring nonlinear one.
>>320778870
Well post your waifu.
>>320786601
Agreed. Those Skyrim dungeons with water currents were more fun than they had any right to be.
Is Tamriel Rebuilt good? I haven't played Elder Scrolls in so long and looking to play Morrowind,Oblivion, or Skyrim modded. Skyrim heavily modded probably because its pretty meh.
What should I play?
>>320778870
Arg FFE w/ t. proc.
>>320783318
I want this back in rpg games so bad.
>>320779263
>they're going to be universally shit on.
You wish. They would get some flak, but universally shit on? We're talking about the only dev in the entire world that gets a pass for releasing broken buggy shit.
>>320787714
They're ALREADY getting flak for using it still. Even the bearded mexican is getting tired of this engine.
>>320787821
I think it's more that Fallout 4 had too much "streamlining" even for some of the biggest Bethesda fans.
>>320788268
It had a lot wrong with it. The fact that issues from previous games are still present in Fallout 4 because of the engine is one of the big things making people lose patience with Bethesda. The voiced PC also seems to have people divided. For Fallout I can understand how it works, but if they try it in TES that would mean we can only play as a Human and thus they'd piss a lot of people off.
>>320788693
No way TES will feature voiced MC. No matter what they do, it would be a disaster.
Make every character use the same voice files? People would shit on them. Halve the amount of lines in order to get three or four different voices depending on race? People would shit on them.
Using a different voice per race (or one for all humans, all elves, khajiit and Argonian) and keeping the amount of spoken lines and dialog options even as limited as it was in Fallout 4 would be way too expensive.
>>320789547
I'm just afraid they'll think two things:
>FO4 was successful, therefore people want a voiced PC
>FO4 had a voiced PC, therefore people will think it's a step backwards if we don't have one
>just starting to cook
>lose my pack guar
>never thought to write down his id in case I lose him
Whelp, there goes two hours of collecting a lot of shit on foot.
>>320776592
>Skyrim
>>320790919
modded Skyrim is quite enjoyable if you aren't a faggot prude
>>320778476
