What are some good video games about cyborgs?
>>320401543
Metal Gear Rising.
system shock 2 made me feel like one, and by the end of OWB you certainly can be one
Does EYE Divine Cybermancy count?
Maybe be more power suits than physical augments tho.
You are definitely a cyborg in System Shock 2. SHODAN even revels in the fact that you are slowly turning piece by piece.
Bioforge.
At what point does a cyborg become a robot
>>320403897
When there are no more human parts.
>>320403897
At what point does a robot become a cyborg
>>320403897
A cyborg is essentially a human that has been augmented with artificial components, while a robot is wholly inorganic and artificially created.
Therefore, I personally believe that until there is no organic part in the person / cyborg / machine, it is still technically a cyborg. If you could somehow transfer a person's conciousness to a robot brain, then that person would be a human in a robotic body.
>>320403897
When it's got no org left.
>>320404026
If a person had their mind uploaded into a computer but had their human penis attached to the mechanical suit would it be a cyborg
>>320404332
Asking the important questions.
>>320402725
PROBLEMATIC
>>320403676
>>320401543
Syndicate series by bulletfrog
>>320403897
Someone should watch GitS
>>320404301
At which point does a robot become an organism again?
>>320404332
Yes.
>>320405027
Any device with an OLED is a cyborg.
>>320405060
OLEDs don't contain any organisms. Organic means something different in chemistry.
>>320405060
Nah, not really. Organic chemistry doesn't mean organisms, it just means that there's carbon in there.
Space Siege
>>320401543
>>320401543
>video game
>posting a fanart of a TV serie
>>320405442
>interactive movie
There's one I don't want to say because the cyborgs are a spoiler.
>>320405824
Oh, that third person shooter I forgot the name of?
>>320404834
I tried but all I could think about was how much I wanted to bone Makoto.
>>320405881
It's first person, so probably something different.
>>320405824
>>320406052
Maybe you should ctrl+s then youdummy
>>320404332
no because you cant upload a mind.
>>320406737
That's true. The most you could do is hook a brain up to a man-machine interface and stick it in a robot.
>>320406567
But then you still don't know what it's a spoiler for. Like, if I say "the main character dies at the end", and then sayRed Dead Redemption, then how can anyone who doesn't want to be spoiled forRed Dead Redemptionknow that they shouldn't open it, without opening it and being spoiled?
>>320406737
Why not?
>>320406737
Yes you can, using sci fi bullshit magic.
>>320405824
Fallout 4?
Everyone knew that already.
>>320407201
Not him.
What is uploading but creating a copy in a new location? Even if you delete the original, it's just a copy. There's no way to retain the original without simply using it. At that point, you're not a robot as you have a human brain.
>>320407201
You are youre brain, the actual object itself and not just the memories inside it. You would just be copying your personality into a computer you'd still be the brain thees no "soul" or whatever you can transfer to live without a brain.
>>320406737
You'd have to replace parts of the brain one at a time.
We'd need to know exactly what a consciousness even is and how to prevent it from being erased and replaced by a "copy" who wouldn't even be aware that anything happened to the "original" though.
>>320405623
I needed something for the op picture and it fits>tfw cibberymen are shit now
>>320407536
see >>320407520
Your "consciousness" is the brain. you could put the brain into something else and have it control it but theres nothing you can take out of a brain and put n a computer that will move "you" because you are that meatball in your skull not your memories.
Replacing parts of the brain is an interesting concept though, You could probably replace a pice at a time and eventually replace all of it and still be you, but only after each part has adapted to become part of your brain.
>>320407448
Yes, that is literally what the word "to upload" means. Before doing it, there is one you, after doing it, there are two yous.
>>320407520
>You are youre brain, the actual object itself
Don't think so, no. The atoms aren't important, you could exchange them and still be you. The way they're arranged is important. The pattern that they form. And patterns are information can be copied.
>>320405623
It may not be from a video game but it's still related to the topic.
>>320407520
>>320407909
You keep ignoring one aspect of the whole idea, and that is what happens if you ask the computer who he is.
Deus Ex Human Revolution
>>320407972
I suppose the semantics of the word upload are irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. What the anon who said "you can't upload a mind" meant was that you can't transfer your unique consciousness to a computer.
>>320407972
>Don't think so, no. The atoms aren't important, you could exchange them and still be you
That's the thing they dont all get replaced at once changing out parts at a time is fine because as long as theres a significant amount of "you" left the new stuff gets adopted into it and becomes part of you. replacing everything at once is different.
>>320408126
It will say it's me, but it won't be because id still be in my body controlling it just fine. The computer is just a copy
>>320408245
>you can't transfer your unique consciousness
Well, yeah, but only because as soon as someone figures out a way to do uploading, he's proven that your unique consciousness doesn't actually exist.
>>320405623
>>320407765
>>320408660
I'm not catching on. Describe why? Cogito, ergo sum is the only real response I have to that.
>>320408404
>That's the thing they dont all get replaced at once changing out parts at a time is fine because as long as theres a significant amount of "you" left the new stuff gets adopted into it and becomes part of you. replacing everything at once is different.
I see no reason why that should be the case.
>It will say it's me, but it won't be because id still be in my body controlling it just fine
If you ask the computer, it will tell you the exact opposite.
What makes you so much more trustworthy than the computer? At the point where you can do uploading, the processes that led to you being you and the processes that led to the computer being you have to be equally well understood, so that's not exactly an excuse either. So you end up atom counting again.
>>320408881
Because both yous will say they're you. And an outside observer has no reason to believe one over the other. Meaning that your consciousness is no longer unique.
Although I guess the two of them will start accruing differences pretty quickly.
>>320401543
Gordon Freeman the morphine addicted cyborg. From all the damage he has taken he should be closer to 40k marine than nerd in hazard suit.
What if your "you" gets replaced with a different "you" every time you go to sleep and you just don't realize it because your new "you" still has all its old memories?
>>320408881
I reckon he's meaning that if you can transfer your mind onto a computer, then that implies your mind is constantly being "transferred" to your brain and you are essentially just being repeatedly killed with a successor gaining all your memories. How can you be certain you are the same person you were yesterday, and that someone didn't clone you and kill you in your sleep?
>>320409254
I was gonna say, yeah. At that point, you have two separate, unique consciousnesses. Very similar, obviously, but still.
>>320409416
I can't be certain, and I don't care. I can only say that I'm who I am this very instant, and there's nothing wrong with that. Just gotta live your life, since that's the best option.
>>320409559
What I'm saying is that there is little point in arbitrarily calling one of those consciousnesses special somehow because it's "the original". Like, when did you last think about a file on a computer that way? It's just not a useful concept when you're dealing with information.
>>320409805
Because computer files aren't sapient and don't have the capacity to process high level thought.
If you were to upload my brain to a computer and then kill it off, I'd be dead. I wouldn't suddenly switch perspectives to that copy, although I'm aware you understand that. The point of it is that you can't upload /yourself/ to a computer.
I get what you're saying, but I have to disagree here.
Just an aside here, but even with files you can't make a perfect copy. There's always some discrepancy, whether it's in the metadata, the location, or even just a (1) at the end of the filename.
>>320410506
>Because computer files aren't sapient and don't have the capacity to process high level thought.
In our little thought experiment, they are though, aren't they? That's the premise, that you can build a computer program that behaves like a human.
>If you were to upload my brain to a computer and then kill it off, I'd be dead.
The brain would be dead, and before being dead, the brain would have been you.
But the computer would still be alive, and it would ALSO be you.
The reason I'm saying they're both you is that, as an outside observer, I can't think of a reason why one of them wouldn't be. Because sure, I can ask brain-you, and it'll tell me that it's the original. But when I ask computer-you, it tells me the same thing.
>>320401543
Binary Domain might be up your alley.
>>320411495
Oh, right, I think that's what it was called.
>>320411235
>they are though, aren't they?
Shit, I guess you're right, actually. Cheeky.
I agree that to an outside observer, it shouldn't matter. Here's my point, though.
If somebody wants to live forever and says "Upload my consciousness to a computer, because my brain will die eventually." there's no way for that person to actually live forever, from their perspective. As far as we know right now, there's no way to avoid producing a duplicate or fulfill their request.
>>320409336
The old me doesn't care, the new me doesn't care, I don't care
who cares?
TPP
>>320411495I haven't even playe the game yet, and the Icon in the title gives strong hint that someone is a dirty Cylon. COme on, half is a human skull, half is a robot. What else could it mean?
>>320411587
>there's no way for that person to actually live forever, from their perspective
I'm not sure if that's a sentence that makes sense in this context. Because as far as I'm concerned, the guy in the computer is that person, and he gets to live for however long that computer program runs decently. So, from his perspective, the whole thing worked out exactly as planned.
Here's something that I would agree to:
>If somebody wants to live forever and says "Upload my consciousness to a computer, because my brain will die eventually." there's no way to ensure that no instance of that person will die as a shriveled old guy.
>>320404194
Bicentennial Man
>>320405357
I tried to play it, but it was so bad
>>320412313
The man who paid for it is not going to live forever. Although the second instance of that man remembers paying for it, he did not actually provide the currency for the operation.
I agree with what you greentexted and I get what you mean, but the reason what I said makes sense is because I suffixed it with >from their perspective.
I feel like there's just some miscommunication here, to be honest. Maybe I'm wrong about it, though.
Alpha Centauri.
>>320412313
>>320412745
One of you is talking about a copy being uploaded (where the "original" wakes up in the lab and his "copy" lives forever on the net) and the other is talking about a situation where the mind is transferred, instead of copied.
>>320413068
I've been talking about how it's impossible to transfer your consciousness because you can only make a copy. Although if it were possible, then you'd be a robot by definition.
>>320412745
>Although the second instance of that man remembers paying for it, he did not actually provide the currency for the operation.
Yes he did. Just ask him, he'll tell you all about it.
Go watch these:
Ghost in the Shell
Transcendence
Ex Machina
Bicentennial Man
Appleseed
2001: A Space Odyssey
Time of Eve
Ergo Proxy
>>320413068
Nah, we're both talking about someone being copied. We just have different stances on what kinds of distinctions you can make between the two people who come out the other end.
>>320413656
Objectively, from our omniscient perspective on this theoretical situation, he did not.
>>320412745
So would the uploaded person "wake up" inside the computer?
>>320401543
>forearms/legs still human
Whhhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyy
>>320413976
Sure, I guess. From the uploaded's point of view, it worked—unless they ever meet. Then things would probably get cloudy.
>>320413871
I don't see how he did it any less than the other guy. I mean, if he authorized it by thumb print, he couldn't do it again and the brain guy could, but that doesn't mean jack shit considering that if instead of copying him you cut his thumbs off, he wouldn't suddenly not have paid for it.
>>320413871
But they were the same person when the transaction happend.
>>320412267
Give it a shot, you'd be surprised. It's more on the lines of Terminators.
>>320414378
I mean, kind of. That's a little fuzzy and I think up to interpretation. I'd say they weren't the same person, just because the data that makes up #2's consciousness was only formed after the transaction had occurred. He wasn't anything when it occurred, unless you'd call him an idea.
>>320414141
He didn't exist when it was paid for. My whole point was about perspective, anyways. The guy who paid for it will have twiddled his thumbs while he was being 'uploaded' and then at the end of it he'll ask for a refund.
If they killed him, though, then they wouldn't get any complaints. Still, from his perspective he'd be dead since they only made a copy and have no way to transfer the original..
>>320401543
why the fuck would he have a robot torso and human extremities
stupid as fuck
>>320415294
Because we're meat robots
>>320415229
>He didn't exist when it was paid for
Well, yeah. It was in the past. Neither of the two people who come out the scanner existed back then.
This doesn't distinguish one of them in regards to the other one, though.
>The guy who paid for it will have twiddled his thumbs while he was being 'uploaded' and then at the end of it he'll ask for a refund.
That's true. But it's ALSO true that the guy who paid for it will wake up to see the world through a camera and go "fuck yeah, it worked".
>>320415294
It's fan-art by the looks of it.
>>320403897
Robots are fully synthetic. Cyborgs have living tissue.
The difference is binary.
>>320415571
Yeah, neither of them existed, but an observer can have memory and clearly see which one of the two handed the money. Let's assume they don't look identical, because they don't necessarily have to.
You're not really disproving my point here, actually.
>>320416004
Only as binary as your definition of life. That can get pretty murky, too.
>>320405824
Is itSoma?
>>320415294
Because that makes it spooky.
Cybermen a shit anyway. Borg are infinitely better, especially once it was revealed that they're zombie-like because they're just busy ERPing / texting
What I hate about both of them is that they try to take by force, and are ugly, rather than appeal to a race's vanity and have their nanites (or lore equivalent in Who's case) alter people internally but keep their exterior appearance the same or better based on culture.
Basically if they played the scientology game they'd rule the universe
>>320416127
That's really just a fancy way of saying "the guy in the brain is the original". Which, you know, you can call him. But I don't see the fundamental importance of making that distinction, nor do I see the reasoning why the guy in the computer and the guy from before the scan should not be the same person.
My reason for that is that the atoms and molecules that the brain is made of are not important, just the structure they form. You could swap them out and nothing would change. So if the atoms the brain is made of aren't important, why place all this importance in the physical object that is the brain?
>>320416584
How is that a spoiler? The very first gameplay trailer shows a brain controlling a body while being otuside of it
>>320417086
WellYou are also a robot
>>320417252
Trailer also shows that
>>320416853
Speaking of culture, have you read those books?
>>320417025
Well theres certainly a spiritual/theological argument to be made that its important.
The Swapper had a similar discussion, though it was about clones and not robots.
>>320417025
The perspective. The perspective of the original doesn't change, but because the copy's perspective was just created, it appears to change.
Imagine if it was you who wanted to upload your brain and live forever. You would be the one asking for a refund, not the one with the bitchin' robo-bod.
The importance is misleading, because it's not on the brain. Without further understanding the human consciousness, we don't understand how to separate our brain and our consciousness. The consciousness is that which holds our perspective, and what's important.
>>320417415
I dunno, man, the problem with spiritual and theological arguments is that you can just not believe in them.
>>320417025
>But I don't see the fundamental importance of making that distinction
One has a soul and is going to heaven, the other doesn't have a soul and is going to be obliterated upon death, OR at best is going to go to that second rate Clone Heaven (they don't even have a Clone Jesus there!!!), either way it's a recipe for clone rebellion
Frankly though, they're both chumps, as an Android I'm going to Android Heaven and it's quite a bit better than that meat based bullshit.
>>320417339
The Iain M. Banks books? Yeah they're great, although I haven't read them all and it bothers me when Banks suddenly goes maximum /d/eviant for a paragraph or two (like with that dumb cannibal bullshit)
>>320417450
So you're saying that the person who experiences a sort of personal discontinuity during the uploading process is not the original? Got it.It's easily fixed by doing the uploading while the subject is asleep, though. You experience a discontinuity like that every day.
>>320417252
>>320417319
Like, yer telling me Soma's BEEG TWEEST has been thoroughly spoiled by their pre-release media?
>>320417984
Man why do they do that shit anyway? It hasn't happened to me in a long time but I had the fucking ending of a movie spoiled in a trailer and it was even on a billboard advertising the movie
>>320417864
I knew you were going to say that, and that's not my point at all.
Although you'd wake up and question whether you're really who you are, you, with your perspective, would still end up the one in the normie body that'll die off eventually.
>>320418085
What movie?
Also yeah its super dumb.
>>320409336
It'd be excact clone but it wouldn't me me. While "I" would have been transferred to a new body, old "Me" would be dead, because we don't have soul that would transfer the "me" over to the new body.
There is a slight dystopian chance that a secret society has replaced me with a cyborg last night, transferred my mind into robot, and killed the old me in process. I highly doubt this because I bled from my nose today and I wake up as me tomorrow again.
The concept of mind transfer is interesting thought, but as long as we don't do it gradually, what resembles as "me" resides in the brain and will die in the process, even though the copy would behave exactly like me.
>>320418116
If that's not your point at all, then I really don't understand what you mean when you say "perspective". It's kind of starting to sound like "soul" to me.
>>320417984
That is not the BEEG TWEEST. It is established roughly ten-minutes into the game that you're a robot.
>>320418085
Yeah the new Terminator movie did this with JOHN CONNER IS A TERMINATOR shit all through the 2nd half of the trailer. Fuck that.
>>320418370
Are you explicitly shown that you're one, though? Or could you, at that point, also assume that you were cryogenically preserved or something like that?
>>320418225
Containment or something like that, the last scene of the movie is the main character hiding from the monster with a night vision camera recording her, and she gets grabbed and the movie ends. That shit was in the trailer, so as soon as you saw her under the bed with the night vision thing, you knew she was going to die (if you remembered the trailer / saw the billboard)
>>320417864
>tfw you're schizophrenic and question whether you're awake every time you remember what you dreamt
Slept for 10 hours, had a continuation of a dream that i last had really long ago and actually forgot about, woke up barely rested
>>320418370
So why was anon spoilering it
>>320418523
Within ten minutes of the game, omitting the prologue, a character literally tells you that you're a robot. Even before then, there's many clues towards it.
Ten minutes might be an exaggeration, but it feels that soon. Definitely within the first hour.
>>320418825
Absolutely no clue.
>>320418541
I remember that.
Quarantine.
>>320401543
At that point, what's the purpose in keeping any organic parts?
>>320419170
Nostalgia.
>>320418343
Imagine you get the operation. When it's over, you're still in your original body, because you cannot be transferred. That's your perspective. I meant it literally.
>>320403897
>Cyborg:A human with substancial part of his body being robotic
>Robot:A robot
>Android:A robot that was build to look like a human
>>320418541
The marketers for the remake (Quarantine) thought putting the most memorable image from the original (Rec) was a good idea
Marketers think people are really, really stupid
>>320415591
It's concept art by Peter Mckinstry
>>320416853
You wut m8?
Oldwho cybermen were great especially the early ones
Newwho made them too robotic but they still had their moments
Nightmare in silver is where they really went to shit and became flashy iron men
And then became henchmen for so wacky XD mattress and got beaten by "the power of love" which i'm guessing is what your referring to
>>320419271
In that case, your definition of "perspective" is the same as my definition of "soul". "The thing that can't be transferred, when perfect information that describes the brain can be". Maybe I've read too much scifi, but I don't really believe such a thing exists.
>>320419586
I don't remember old who very well, watched a few Tom Baker episode as a kid
Cybermen are shit in the new who because their agenda is retarded, it's assimilate everyone, but there's no reason given, their method is forceful, they're easily defeated because individual cybermens are retarded, only the ones in charge (I forget what they're called) can make complex decisions or understand situations, so Who just runs circles around them constantly
But somehow they can time travel and are a major threat / player in the Time Wars?
I mostly just hate that they destroy or suppress the individual's intelligence
They're just this unambiguously evil entity whose intention is to forcefully destroy / consume everyone; at least Star Trek TNG raised the question that they might be a lifeform unto themselves, that they can be redeemed, that peaceful co-existence is possible, that there are individuals within the collective whose interests are different from the collective (borg that get adopted by Lore and decide to stop assimilating and instead become full synthetic), etc
Cybermen are just so shallow, so dumb, so easily fooled, so one dimensional
>>320420323
Since when can drones think?
>>320420323
Pretty sure the time war was between daleks and time lords only
As for the rest i have one simple answer:moffat is a fucking hack
>>320401543
>>320401543
Deus Ex
>>320420323
Old Cybermen were built on the idea of a race gradually replacing their weaker organic parts with cybernetic ones, but by 'improving' themselves they eventually lost something fundamentally important without realizing it.
Then the new ones were just human brains in robot bodies. And the bodies didn't even need the brain to function, so why bother in the first place?
It just seemed to completely miss the point.
>>320420616
The episode with Hue, the episode with Lore, the episodes in the other series.
If you're talking about "what makes a drone menacing while a cyberman isn't?", it's that when Cybermen drones die they're defeated and the threat is gone (whether it's shoot them, blow them up with the environment, get someone else to shoot them, or run past them and shut the door); with Borg a drone will die to something, then a new one will teleport in or unplug itself from the wall and continue being a threat without missing a beat.
Okay so here's a tricky one thread
Are there are some games that let you become a cyborg that have it visually show on your character?
>>320407520
What if you only replaced the brain part by part.
>>320422741
I think you can see your character's cyberlimbs in the new shadowrun games. But the models in those games aren't much to talk about.
