Why is he so bad and low tier?
git gud
yaoibait
>>320336017
Why is he in Smash at all?
why are you so bad at the game?
>implying cloud has ever been high-tier in any non FF7 game
>>320336017
>He's only been out for less than a day
>He's low tier!
>>320336017
Prove it.
>needing a fully charged limit break at all times to be able to recover or pursue off ledge worth a shit
Yeah, he's low tier
>>320336017
Once again OP proves to not know what he is talking about.
>>320336017
What happened today? I was at work.
>>320336603
Cloud's been released famm, also there was entire Smash Bros presentation.
>>320336724
Really? Nice. What else happened?
>watching Clouds whiff the ledge by jamming B while they recover
tippity top kek
but for real it's kinda bullshit
>>320336826
Bayo and Corn from FE confirmed.
>>320336826
Bayonetta and a Marth clone.
>that unique music on his victory screen
I would demand this would be done for every character next game, but it's clear Sakurai is no one's bitch.
>>320337070
>Marth clone
End yourself please.
>>320337070
>Marth clone
You're one of those faggots that called Wolf a Fox clone, weren't you
>>320337070
Ah, yes, I remember Marth having reach longer than Shulk, using a lance, and attacking with dragon claws and wings!
Anyway, the biggest disappointment of today is that Midgar only has two fucking songs, neither is a remix, and Beware the Forest Mushrooms isn't in despite being used in the direct. I know people will try to blame SoccerGuy like he was the one who decided to skimp on the musicdespite EVERY OTHER STAGE IN THE GAME having at least 5 songs, but we all know it's Squenix being the greedy, stingy, buzzkills that they are.
>>320336017
Cloud doesn't really feel all that fun to play.
As of right now, he's just a better Shulk.
>>320337361
At least Wolf has similar moves to Fox.
>>320336017
his recovery is dogshit.
>>320337745
Even when Squeenix manages to not fuck up, they still fuck up. It's magical.
Only 2 songs and none of them are even remixes. At least Bayonetta's getting a good amount, fuck you Squeenix.
>>320336495
brianna???
He's not horrible, hes slightly above average, my quick review
If you want to compare him to anyone he's a mix of Shulk and Ike. He has good range with a fantastic aerial arsenal, his nair is super good at spacing and covers a long distance. He also has a TON of priority on his Up and Down Airs and his Up B (Ive canceled out Link's Down Smash with it) Like Ike he does his best work in the air easy. His tilts arent horrible though they dont combo into anything.
Well this is a major issue with him because not alot combos into anything meaning he's not going to be the aggressor often, his grab game is literal shit, his only true is on smaller characters at 0% Down throw to reverse side B
Another major flaw is his recovery. Its dogshit. Its Little Mac tier bad. You need the Limit version to go anywhere and he has NO horizontal recovery at all. Gimp and your dead.
His B moves are pretty solid, his Neutral special cancels out other projectiles, its pretty good at shutting down ZSS's stun gun spam. His Up B doesnt go very far but its disruptive. His side B is pretty decent just has no range. Of course he's specialty his is Down B to gain limit break
With Limit Break he becomes very deadly. His Neutral B kills at 100 no mater the distance it goes, his Side B kills at 100 and of course that amazing Down B attack that kill at 75, excellent punish moves
Ultimately having shit for a combo game and DOGSHIT for a recovery isnt going to let him go far. Hes a bait and punish character and will probably wind up high C low B on the final tier list
Because you are playing tr4sh. Everybody but shiek feels like dog shit and that's because shiek is a melee character stuck in a shitty game.
>>320337745
Hold on, how are you drawing the conclusion that SE is in charge of the music for Cloud's stages?
Why wouldn't Nintendo be the ones to handle that? Like everything else.
>>320338140
>No grab game
God damn I just bought him, RIP my chances at maining him. Thanks for the heads up anyways
>>320338657
>Why wouldn't Nintendo be the ones to handle that? Like everything else.
They don't own the character. Nintendo/Sakurai has to deal with the character owner's rules when adapting them to Smash, and some companies are better than others about it. It's why Pac Man and Sonic have shit color options.
>>320338657
Because.... Squeenix owns the music to Final Fantasy 7 and others, and usually when you want to use someone elses music, you kinda have to ask for permission to do so.
That's kinda how and why intellectual propery law exist, so people can't just do whatever they want.
>>320337070
>Marth clone
Yeah because Marth has a really long reach, can turn into a dragon and use different parts of his dragon-fied body to attack right? Fuck off.
>>320337883
keep that Limit Gauge up faggot
>>320338657
Nintendo needs permission
You know there's a reason Sonic's colors were all shades of Blue and Pacman being banned to be any color that isnt Yellow
>>320338140
Better or worse than Shulk?
>>320338657
SE owns the rights to everything, FF and anything original in SMRPG (music included). Notice how Megaman, Ryu, Pacman, Sonic, and Bayonetta all got stages with shit-tonnes of music? You think anyone in the Smash team just said "We'll just skip the music for FF for no reason!" Or, is it more likely that SE, a company notorious for being super antisocial, stingy, and protective, didn't want to license Nintendo to use the songs in Smash?
>Taking Marth's reach and adding it to Kamui
>>320339406
marth needs to fuck off anyways. hes literally the worst lord, even that clown chrom is better than him
>>320338140
Killed Luigi with a down B when he was at 56% on Midgar omega style.
Wasn't in rage either. Down B seems legit.
>People complaining about Cloud's recovery
His recovery is ace compared to what I'm used to. Try playing with Doc Mario for 5 seconds you spoiled S-tier loving twits.
>>320339592
Yeah his Down B is really good when it hits.
I'm surprised his nair is as fast as it is. I was expecting it to be slower and it keeps fucking with me.
>>320339406
at this point they should just give marth the best frames or something. nigga literally has nothing going on right now.
>>320339607
I'm a Doc melee main and I can't deal with this shit in 4.
I'm an Ike main in 4, so I have to agree with people saying his recovery is shit
>>320339607
Holy shit this, you fags should try play Falcon if you want to see some shitty recovery.
>>320339607
You keep saying that, but McStrife doesn't even ledge snap. Guarding against his recovery is going to be cake, he and Mac may not even be able to recover against Bayonetta.
>>320337745
they used unrelated/unavailable music in trailers before
>>320339607
Ganondorf and Lil Mac main here. Cloud's recovery is like having fucking rocket shoes. Life is naught but endless suffering.
I dunno. His neutrals are all pretty fast and have crazy high priority. His KO moves are all really fast, too, so it's not like Ike or Dedede where you charge your finisher and hope it lands.
His recovery is weak without limit, Sure, but it's so easy to camp and charge thanks to his neutral B
>>320339307
>>320338939
>>320338918
>>320338013
>>320337745
No One Winged Angel, no J.E.N.O.V.A., no overworld music or Gold Saucer, no Electric de Chocobo... And just imagine one of these bad boys playing in Smash with Mario, Megaman, Ryu, and Cloud going at it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WjMytgvcus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNADbGeY2vQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQYCu5EZOGI
Why, friends... Why does Square Enix hate happiness?Sakurai must have had them at knifepoint to get that Geno costume.
>>320337745
Square is a retard company who does retard things.
Also, Bowser Jr's trailer used the Mario Galaxy remix of Airship Fortress and it's not in the game.
>>320336179
Nintendo jumped the shark.
>>320339607
This. I think his recovery is pretty damn good. I mean it's no Lucario/Villager/etc but come on. Also
>tfw Ike main
>>320340219
>Dorf
His recovery is middle of the road. Height is okay at best, but he has the strongest ledge snap in the game (fucking magnet hands) and he at least has the OPTION of getting back horizontally, unlike Cloud. Plus the threat of Ganoncide can discourage spike attempts, Cloud has no such deterrent.
Square Enix has been completely anal with their music lately. On PS4, yo can't even stream DQH with the sound on
People act like it's impossible to have limit break up.
Get your ass beat, gains
Kick ass gains
Down B gains
Full gains = Level Up.
Speed, jumps and attack all improved. Git gud you faggots. Been Fair spiking my ass off.
>>320340648
Same goes for all versions of FFXIV. Must be something to do with Uematsu's ownership making legality fuzzy. Or SE being shits. Probably the latter.
>>320338140
His down throw combos into side special
His dtilt can combo into a utilt, and a uair.
His uair can short hop combo into itself.
He isnt a combofiend like, say Sheik, but he has some true combs that are short but rack up damage nicely.
He can kill at 50% on lighter characters with his dspecial limit break
>>320340738
Where's the sweet spot on his fair?
>>320341169
This. And the good thing about limit break is that it buffs all his stats. All of them. And since his B moves are all finishers, you can just stay in limit form and save the b moves exclusively for recovery or kills. Better jumps, more damage and knockback, faster.
>>320336017
>tiers
>in a party game for children
>>320341186
It's the top half of the blade on the arcing start up. Practice with the razor blade edge part and connect when the blade is arcing down midway
>>320341349
competitive action game
>>320338140
And who the fuck are you? Nobody gives a shit.
>>320341186
At the bottom most poin of the hitbox, where the blade points.
Probably the only thing I'm annoyed about is the lack of his English voice.
I've been playing so much Dissidia, so I'm used to hearing Burton's voice at this point.
>>320341349
Huh, videogames are for children. What's up with that redundancy?
>>320341169
Sorry man. Both of those are false. the only one thats true is an uair into uair but only at like 35-45%
>>320336017
mew2king says he's definitely high mid tier.
>>320343065
remember
if you're not frame perfect
you're shit
>>320338140
Don't forget to add that his F-Smash can kill as early as 47%
So what skins are you guys using? I'm using black regular Cloud because he reminds me of Guts
>>320343251
I've been using Sleeveless Advent Children because I liked the design itself but the sleeve was just so jarring
>>320343251
That vibrant blue
It's like hegot a new outfit just for smash
>>320343251
Soldier 3rd
>>320343251
The alts are practically indistinguishable. Not quite ganondorf-tier but why can't all characters have skins like Mario?
faster ike/shulk with a projectile and meter
>>320343454
Nintendo has to deal with mandates SE put forward for Cloud.
>>320343251
SOLDIER 3rd rank and Blue AC cloud.
>>320343705
Mah nigga
Just tried him out and man he feels clunky. Not a fan of the limit break bar.
>>320343065
m2k is also washed up and not nearly as robotic as he used to be.
He has a (small) social life now unlike 6-10 years earlier where all he would do is play Smash.
From what I've been hearing and seeing, Cloud tentatively seems like an upper mid character, which is much better than Roy.
Bad air mobility and a bad recovery seem to be his two big roadblocks. In that regard, he's an Ike with lots of shiny moves but lacks a few things that would make him as good as him.
>>320336017
Because he just came out and nobody knows how to use him?
Is it my imagination or does the third slash in his forward smash not actually do anything? It seems the first two hits are what does the damage and the third just unnecessarily extends the animation out. I've seen the AI dodge his fsmash and come out of the dodge right on the third slash and it does nothing to them. Something seems kind of wonky about it.
>>320344368
You have a bit of horizontal control with his Neurtal B in the air. It stalls you like Ryu's Hadouken and you can move forward, but it only works once.
I think the big thing with his recovery is that it doesn't snap right away, and doesn't have enough horizontal coverage hitbox wise to protect you.
I'm having a blast so far. There's something about constantly building up that limit meter that's really fun. Any downtime between KOs is spent Kaiokening up and I love it.
>>320336354
You haven't seem how easy it is to gimp him
>>320337745
Cloud is weird. They gave him and his stage so much detail and love yet he doesn't have any other trophies and his stage only has two fucking songs and he only speaks Jap.
I REALLY hope they patch in more music to his stage or something. Goddamn.
>>320344391
His recovery is ass outside of Limit.
Unless he has Melee Falco like qualities, which is impossible given that he has meaty hits with high knockback, he's never going to be top tier or even high tier.
Haven't you ever noticed that top tiers in all of the Smash games have very very good recoveries, with the exception being Falco.
>>320344735
Nah it's just you.
>>320340648
>primarily
Unless there's more to this you should be able to stream the game with the volume on as long as you aren't just sitting there listening to the music.
>>320345173
>Melee Marth
>Sm4sh Ness
It's a good rule of thumb though, I don't think he'll break top 10 but there'll be people doing cool shit with him.
>>320337070
>Marth clone.
How is Corrin a Marth clone?
>Inb4 they're from the same series
Mario and Peach are from the same series, does that make her a clone?
>>320345851
>marth has a sword
>Corrin has a sword
Literally a clone.
>>320345056
You have SE to thank for the lack of music and trophies. As for the lack of an English voice, that's anyone' guess, but you KNOW that the Smash team didn't make the decision to skimp on music of all things. Some stages have around 20 songs, and every third party stage/series has a ton of music on it, Bayonetta included.
Pic related, it's SE after allowing Cloud to be in Smash.
>>320345978
>Mario has hands
>Ryu has hands
Literally a clone
>Nip voice only (Fuck you I like Burton's Cloud voice)
>2 fucking songs
>His symbol is FF and not Meteor when his "series" is listed as "FINAL FANTASY VII"
>No trophies of Tifa or the rest of the party
So many things bug me about Cloud. Feels like they didn't go as hard as they could have it has him. There's plenty of cool things about him though...just noticed his fair is Braver, that's a nice touch
>>320345978
>you are a fag
>op is a fag
Fuckin' twins man
>>320346186
>every third party stage/series has a ton of music on it
ryu only has his theme and ken, both remixed and original
>>320346316
I'd imagine Square would be the ones to OK models for trophies and the music
>>320346316
I think some of that is more SE's fault, but after playing Cloud, I honestly love him. He's fast, strong, and has a fun moveset and gimmick. I knew the moment I saw his trailer that he was going to be my new main.
>>320346217
I always thought Mario was really similar to Ryu. Not exactly a clone but I see what you were going for.
You can play some really cool mindgames with the downwards strike on Cloud's up-b.
>>320346530
Even then it's a total of 6 actual songs, even if it's really just 3 versions of 2 songs each. FFVII doesn't even have a remix.
It looks like he might have a couple neat tricks he can do with limit break canceling.
Wish I wasn't on the 3DS so I could actually pull them off, though.
Ryu main here, No fucks were given today.
>>320347098
>limit break canceling.
the hell
>>320347376
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq_-vpSTGvc
>>320347225
This basically.
Ryu was the pinnacle of the DLC for me. Everything after is who gives a fuck. I don't care about them and so I'm not going to buy them.
Although I recognize that it's rather selfish of me since the only reason I say that so happily is because I've already got my wanted characters basically. Is there others I'd like? Sure. But fucking Ryu in Smash is good enough for me on top of the roster of fucking Mega Man and shit we already got. I sympathize with everyone whose favourite vidya characters are not yet in the game and will never be now, but development time was spent on FEshilling Character #6. stay strong niggers. Don't pipe bomb Sora Ltd.
>>320347987
bayoqueen makes up for corrin
>>320347482
Wow what an obnoxious voice and cadence for someone who is trying to do video voice overs... Jesus christ.
>>320344735
go i to training so you can see the number bleed
it does 3, 2, then 13 i think
>>320336017
His recover literally drags you down if you don't nail it.
>>320339607
>Doc Main
My fucking nigger
>>320348798
you know you don't have to mash b right?
>>320336017
>Low tier
almost all of his attacks have long range and fast start up, plus he has that slide move which makes his moveset criminal.
>>320336354
Even Ike can run off-stage, gimp him AND still make it back
>>320349030
You don't even need to run offstage though. He's got a Melee recovery where he can't autosnap the ledge unless he's got limit up.
I thought that he only had two costumes because they all looked the same when I was scrolling through them casually the first time
>>320338140
>get killed as king dedede at 90% from an uncharged fsmash at midstage
>>320341345
I tested him with and without Limit Break, there's literally no difference in knockback. His other stats are improved, but not that.
>>320336017
The only thing disappointing about his character is his jap only voice.
>>320341516
mis-translation
>>320340648
They can't sell Nier or Kingdom hearts digitally due to music too.
>>320339607
Bullshit I main Doc and I feel safer off stage with him than I do with Cloud. Cloud can only go in one direction, straight up. Doc can angle/reverse his up-B and has better horizontal movement with down-B which can then be followed by an up-B. Cloud's recovery is a joke, it would literally be Mac tier if it wasn't for the fact he can wall jump.
He's bretty good as a lewd femboy faggot crossdresser
>>320338918
>tfw Sonic couldn't have alts because Sega was scared that one of the Chris-chans who copyrighted their "Autismo the Hedgehog" OC had a similar color to the alts in Smash
>>320336179
Nintendo: "Hey Square-Enix, are you going to let us localize the Dragon Quest games again?"
SE: "Fuck off."
Nintendo: "What if we put Cloud in Smash Bros?"
SE: "OK sure go ahead and localize them."
>>320336017
>no materia in his sword
One job.
>>320336017
get better lol
>>320343454
Ganon's colors are actually pretty easily distinguished in-game, it's just the portrait that doesn't look any different. He has one where the under side if the cape just changes slightly though.
>>320336017
Because he isn't Galuf, Sabin, Bartz, WoL, Firion, Onion Knight, Terra, Cecil, Kain, Yang, Rydia, Edward, Locke, or Faris.i will never get over the fact that they picked this fucker instead of literally anyone from the NES/SNES games
>>320355829
Mac can wall jump as well, anon.
>>320358262
>Bartz
Come on. He's pretty much the Vaan of 2D FFs. Also, you forgot about Celes and Cyan.
It may be because it's almost 4am, but god damn it. Does everyone enjoy spamming fucking Blade Beam? I wish I was gud enough to have the fucking lvl 9 CPU instincts to block and punish those spammers.
>>320358605
Wait a minute, I'm genuinely curious as to why you think Bartz is anything like Vaan.
He didn't drop off the face of the planet after two hours of gametime and actually did contribute something to the story instead of being "I AM ASKING QUESTIONS SO THE PLAYER CAN FIND OUT MORE THINGS" for the rest of the game. Vaan may as well ceased existing for anything past Rabanastre and I AM BASCH
>tfw you should be going to bed but you just love to play as Cloud
this is fun senpai
>using Omnislash
Feels just as great as I would imagine.
I'm so used to playing as Shulk I keep trying to play Cloud as ShulkPROTIP: Don't try to play Cloud as Shulk
>>320358923
Level 9 cpu doesn't handle it very well either.
>mfw training against lvl 9 Clouds
>mfw I'll bd ready for you faggots
I literally bought him to train against this fag, so far I've got my best results from Dong. Bring it fags.
>>320359760
I got sherked by a Cloud, and when I am Cloud, I suck as him. Please, take up my will and defeat all the Clouds of the world. May the Dong be with you.
I can buy one currebtky released DLC character right now
I haven't bought any before
Who should I buy?I'm definitely buying Bayonetta when she comes out
>>320359918
Cloud or Ryu. Probably Ryu since he's pretty fun
>>320359918
Ryu. Not only is he insanely different and fun to play with a learning curve, he's arguably one of the toppest tier DLC characters.
Plus, he comes with a stage that has sick Ryu/Ken remixes
>>320347987
I hated that we got Ryu. But fuck if he isn't fun as all hell. They did a good job with him.
>>320359760
I'll be raping you soon enough I assure you. Cloud is based and you'll find out when you face someone who understands his complexities.
>>320359201
It could've been anyone in Bartz's place and nothing would change. Putting aside the fact he just so happened to be one of the Warriors of Light, his chocobo was probably more irreplaceable than him.
Also, out of all FFV playable characters, he has the least personality.
Of course, he's nowhere as bad as Vaan himself.
>>320357750
He doesn't use any in Smash, why would there be any?
>>320360404
They did a good job with ALL of the 3rd party newcomers. Megaman looks and feels like he was pulled straight from the NES games, Pacman is fun and the best case scenario for such a nothing character, Ryu is a love letter to SF2, Cloud has a lot of little details from FF7 and even got his own mechanic based off the one he had in the game, and Bayonetta is cuhrazy through and through.
>>320361157
That's the problem. Cloud not using materia is like Bayonetta without her hair magic.
>>320343065
mew2king also said mewtwo in pm 3.02 was mid tier when he first came out. give it a week at least.
>>320361641
It's more like Bayonetta without weapons other than her guns. Essential to the game they're from, but not really part of their image
>>320341602
Don't be a dick, anon.
>>320338140
Since the other thread seems dead, I'll just copy my opinion and training stuff here.
Cloud is mid tier at worst. His downside is recovery, but even then its far from the worst, and it surpasses most when limit break.
Easy combos are: jab combo, dtilt follow up, then another jab combo or side b, dthrow-side b, depending on the character you can potentially chase after with a nair, but its not worth the risk usually. Another is fthrow, dash attack, or fthrow dtilt. Depending on the character, you can follow up your dtilt attacks with an utilt, or up b. when following up with up b, always hit b twice to slam them, the upswing doesn't push them away. Its really good at the edge if you can get it pixel perfect, as it spikes them but keeps you on the edge of the stage like Ike's aether.
His limit break up isn't good for killing only recovery, if his recovery scares you that much just save it. His side b comes out faster and longer range as well as hitting harder, so its good for edge guarding or chasing. His neutral b is good for recovery denial alone, limit broken it can doom even the best recovery characters at low %s if timed right. His down b is likely the best, as it kills nearly everyone that isn't blocking around you that's 30% or more.
That's the basics I've come up in training so far. I fought AI Cloud, and the most common online characters (Ryu, Sheik, Ganondorf, Mario, Luigi, ZSS, etc)
His biggest weakness is shields if you ask me. He has no shield breaking attacks that I found, so you can block his shit all day and smash him.
>>320340621
Cloud can sui-clim hazard people himself. It's not as good as Dorf as a deterrent, but if you're too far off stage and your opponents with you, might as well double b so you both lose a stock.
>>320336347
Pretty much. In both Dissidia Duodecim and the new Dissidia Arcade he's just mid-tier to okay at best.
>>320344735
All the power is in the 3rd slash. If an enemy gets hit with the first 2, they don't get launched at all, but only getting hit the 3rd can make them launch. Depending on the situation, his f smash can make a great frame trap, especially since people are well adjusted to side stepping smashes at this point in the game.
>>320337745
I was fucking happy hoping for a special arranged tracks of jenova or something but godamn. Imagine if megaman only got his wily castle theme.
>>320359760
>training against CPU's as practice for playing against people
People actually think and also cannot dodge from reading button inputs.
>>320359918
Don't worry about any others, if you buy Bayonetta you'll be maining an S-tier for sure. Even if they give all her attacks like 10 frames of startup lag, she'll still be at least B tier.
>>320360956
Your forgetting his father was one of the Warriors of Dawn that fought with Galuf.
>>320355829
Cloud's recovery is better than Mac's in every way, especially since it can be boosted by limit. Mac is stuck with what he has and even then its still worse than Cloud. At least if things go wrong in an air fight, he can bring his enemy down with him.
>>320355829
Mac has a pretty huge wall jump.
>>320336017
because nobody knows how to use him yet, he isn't an instant gratification character. You have to stay on stage and win exchanges until you can burst limit
it's a reference to turn-based combat in Final Fantasy games.
>3 more quick hitter characters
God dammit, I just want to hit hard and slow, Dorf's my main just because he's unbelievably fun to play as
>>320339795
you have to buffer his second jump with mashed down B, (don't hold the stick down like an idiot, just barely to activate the tornado, then mash B)
When it ends, up B.
You're welcome.
>>320336017
Because he isn't fucking k rool like he should have been
Am I the only that thinks hes so fucking broken?
Ryu main
>>320343065
>>320343194
>>320343990
>>320361828
Let us wait and see what Nairo and ZeRo has to say
He's pretty glib to be honest family
>>320359616
I tried this too
I'm used to Shulks godly nair for aproaches but Cloud's doesn't hit that easily and has more ending frames. I guess Cloud is more about pressure with Blade Beam and killing early with limits
