What went wrong?
Its a fuckin korean grinder with none of the features that made its spiritual inspiration unique.
It's like making a sequel to Runescape without skills, castle wars, or unique quests.
linearity
nothing
many faggot can't get into grinding
It was made by koreans for koreans, and for whatever reason they have boners for endless grinding.
>>319897167
Korea hates ToS
>>319897081
Go back to Ragnarok Online if you want to grind.
This game is terrible.
>>319896710
game has 0 freedom
if you want to level up, just follow the quests or just play a different game
is not ragnarok
every area has the same kind of enemy, tank, ranged, mage and someone who hit hard. This one piss me off the most, 0 versatility.
It's not even the grinding that many people are pointing out.
It's just that the game is built and designed around endless questing and occasional dungeoning like every other MMO in the market but being advertised as something different.
It's shit being advertised as golden.
Major class imbalance and boring progression.
It's boring
While the class system and skills are interesting, you never get to use them due to high sp costs and cooldowns. On top of that, fights themselves don't have much depth to them, and tend to drag out unless you chug potions like water.
>>319896710
Terrible balance.
Lots of bugs.
Incredibly linear.
Grind is beyond mindless.
It has none of the charm of the older games it's based on (although to say it's based on those games is inaccurate, it's not but claims it is).
Hilarious when people complain about grind on an mmo.
>>319898073
Some games do grind better than others.
Grinding in ToS was fucking boring
>>319896710
Honestly, 2 major points :
>linearity : only 1 map to start from, and 1 map per level range)
>ridiculous level cap and class system : it seems good on paper, but some builds/classes that look basic are only reached at level 200, and not so much variety before that
>>319898073
Amount of grind vs quality of grind are two different things.
The grind in ToS is less fun that opening a calculator and pressing +1 over and over.
>>319896710
It's still got a lot of work polishing, but the framework is great. Graphics are great, music is great, combat can be fun; they just need to work on the character progression more. I actually had to restart my character because I went Archer > Quarrel Shooter > Quarrel Shooter and was 100% fucking useless and yet Archer > Archer > Archer was powerful as fuck as long as I had SP (which was never).
>>319898482
And forgot to say that playing in groups is pretty useless, mainly because support classes suck.
It got to the same point as gw2, everyone is DPS and has a few debuff/cc...
And its not only a problem about balance (which won't be fixed : too much classes), but about not rewarding enough group play and high risk moves.
Tried to make a group grinding game into a quest driven game.
You never have to see or interact with another person.
Generally terribly executed, all classes are useless. Shit game.
Newest English blog confirmed that there's 2 starting cities
/v/ forgets that this game is having it's betas while it's ACTUALY still in the middle of development instead of most games these days where the beta is really a glorified demo.
>>319899261
>/v/ forgets that this game is having it's betas while it's ACTUALY still in the middle of development instead
Korea already have open beta
>>319896710
It took everything that made RO unique or more importantly fun and threw it away because apparently what they really wanted to do was make another shitty linear quest-based anti-party grindfest.
>>319899261
This is actually the problem. Korea has an open beta starting in a few days, the games set for release early next year.
Anyone who played the game knows it needs some serious work before it's at an acceptable level, but the release is being rushed to fuck.
>>319899535
>open beta means the game is no longer in development
Are you retarded?
>>319898073
Even the koreans complain about the grind with 35x more exp
Classes are not good enough and don't have enough to differentiate them. You're locked with few skills until Rank 3 to 4, and most builds only start to shine on ranks 5 to 7. That's 150+ levels to start having fun with the "build your character" aspect, and everything before that is suffering. Some of the best combos just aren' t feasible because you'd have to suffer through a terrible class for one skill (like Wiz3 > Ele3). This is terrible design.
>>319899261
And yet they're outright ignoring most of the bugs and complaints reported in the beta and have barely fixed a fucking thing since the last beta.
>>319899810
The game is going to be released before it's finished. It's going to be released in an abysmal state, and once this happens you cannot use the "it's just a beta" excuse anymore.
The game needs so much development that realistically it shouldn't be released until 2017 at the earliest.
Literally, most of the core systems in the game need redesigning. That is how bad the game is right now.
Music isn't as funky as RO.
>>319900198
ToS's music is still good, but you're exactly right about it not being funky. RO's soundtrack was a lot more varied in the styles of music present.
>>319896710
Mediocre diablo clone with forced online
It's not an MMO
>>319896710
No fun allowed long ass CDs and shitty potting system
Even Maplestory is better than it at this point
>you will never hear this for the first time ever again in your life
>post your face when
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqijsweJzFQ
>>319900313
ToS isn't bad, but it's always some sort of grand adventurer type stuff whether you're above ground, in the city or in a dungeon.
I just wanna chill sometimes
>>319896710
>Game is piss easy
>Magic casters get fucked in the ass because everything is based on melee damage
>Some bosses attack patterns make the game crash, a simple fix that they never bothered to fix and you had to maneuver around it
>Takes too long to get to your desired class even if you had like x5 experience boosts
>All monsters are pretty much the same and attack in the same way
>Bosses are all alike and provide no real challenge or threat becoming only damage sponges later on
>Pet system is awful
>Only one class is relevant
>Only one class can resurrect other classes
etc, this game needs a gameplay tweak fast if it wants to top good games
>>319900436
>shares absolutely nothing with Diablo besides an isometric view with swords
>diablo clone
Kill yourself.
>>319896710
Job balance is fucked. Instead of buffing bad classes they just try and nerf good classes while also nerfing the bad classes to be fair so nothing effectively changes in regards to what is good. Stupid skill choices too with how a lot of skills work and you can tell what's new vs what's old. Like flame ground and fire pillar. Pillar's got a damn near 2 minute cd and lasts like 10 seconds, ground lasts for it's entire CD so it's up constantly. Also the SP system in general. Some classes have to spam SP for any damage at all and can't do shit without it, while others can melee for even higher damage and give no shits.
Spawn density is fucked on several maps. Some higher level maps even seem to have less mobs than they did in the previous beta. Also they buffed tons of monster's damage while not doing anything to improve survivability of some classes. Further making the already strong ones even better and the weaker ones even more shit since they die in no time. Basically fuck any map with archers or mages past level 100, jesus.
>>319900738
>you'll never stay in Prontera doing nothing with your friends for hours
>>319900198
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol3-HjsJqM0
>>319901047
>you will never hang out in the desert city by the main square and sit and talk about random shit with people
It was alright, finding those exploits that broke the game was pretty fun
>>319901197
Satan Morroc killed that feeling in Patch 12
>>319901489
I left my private server before that event so I missed it sadly, no idea what the fuck happened
Morroc was warp central, you could always find people selling warps to the grinding areas
Maplestory grind is more fun.
That's how you know you've fucked up.
>grinding game
>the xp from grind is shit and the game has quests that are scattered around
>the respawns are shit
>in a grinding game, the respawns of just about every map are almost nonexistant
>zones look like fucking ghost towns
>in a grinding game
>in a grinding game they implement two separate stats that completely neuter aoe grinding: aoe ratio and aoe defense
>so you need to stack aoe ratio if you want to hit more than just a few creatures
>in a fucking grinding game
>>319901716
Well, Satan Morroc was a full patch, the last one before Renewal. It destroyed the city's square, and every NPC moved in the outskirts
It' was... nice, almost perfect if you had a Star Gladiator, since it was a requriment having one if you want to go there
>>319901760
>implying you need aoe if a grinding game is done well enough
FFXI says hi, child.
>>319902101
Yeah, you do if the xp from the grind is shit. That's why I mentioned it first.
>>319901382
I left after two weeks because the game got boring. Am I right in guessing that /tosg/ turned into shitty kissing posts and erp during the final weeks?
>>319902525
yep
Back to playing DFO and Maple Reboot until FFXIV gets some more endgame content.
>>319902101
>if it was done right it would be good.
No fuckin shit.
>>319902323
>they nerfed aoe damage IN A GRINDING GAME
Sure kiddo, keep backtracking
I wanted to use a highlander before I knew they were OP as fuck.
I didn't liked the fact that you need to upgrade your class every 2-3 tiers.
I expected this game to have a lot of classes, in reality, you have a few classes and the rest are upgrades, and you are going to upgrade that upgrade eventually.
>>319902525
No. There was still some kissposting and some people getting absolutely buttravaged over the kissposting, but for the most part it was people talking about how shit the game was with a few people stubbornly trying to defend all the faults.
>>319901760
>several skills have a cap on aoe targets that ignores aoe ratio
>aoe ratio only really benefits the already op melee classes since their melee has no limit
>>319902673
I wouldn't have bothered mentioning aoe if the experience from the individual grind was good enough. I don't even understand what you're trying to get at, other than mentioning FFXI like you're supposed to be better than other people for playing a widely popular game, or if you're just upset that Tree of Savior is a clusterfuck of terrible design.
>>319902607
>>319901760
Stop samefagging.
>>319902917
>>319902915
>I wouldn't have bothered mentioning aoe if the experience from the individual grind was good enough
Yes you would have, because 1. The aoe mechanics in this game are still terrible and 2. You seem to think being able to aoe down huge packs of mobs is important to games like this as if it were Diablo.
>getting mad that someone mentioned FFXI
Look, it's ok if you're under 18 and never played XI.
>>319901760
>>319900838
You forgot
>Stat allocation is borderline useless due to how little it affects your overall stats
>Skills are all based on static amounts instead of scaling based on your stats, so every class' skills are immediately obsoleted by your new class' better skills
>Worthless buy-able skill upgrades like +1% crit damage
>Every control scheme is fucked in one way or another, targeting with keyboard or gamepad is a crapshoot and any time you click on an enemy with the mouse it'll try to move you towards them, even if you're playing a ranged class
>No passive monsters after the opening areas
>Cards are worthless
>Enemies don't drop shit, just generic use items and renamed weapons that deal slightly more damage than your latest quest weapon
>yet another MMORPG flops due sheer developer incompetence
This genre is filled with garbage. There would be a massive market for even a mediocre MMORPG, but all of them just keep on fucking up in even simple designs. The whole genre has only regressed during the last ten years.
so what's the next MMO FOTM for us all to move onto? Black Desert?
>>319903470
http://black-desert.com/articles/black-desert-how-we-were-expect-it-to-be-and-how-it-is-now/
It's dead, Jim.
>>319903036
Fuck off that shit's so easy to fake.
>>319903469
Thank WoW. Things that were MMO staples are now gone or seen as "antiquated" because WoW removed them to cater to the casual market.
>>319903170
>You seem to think being able to aoe down huge packs of mobs is important to games like this as if it were Diablo.
If the exp from individual mobs is shit, then yes, it is. I don't understand how you are misunderstanding this. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
>Look, it's ok if you're under 18 and never played XI.
Yes, go ahead and keep assuming that you're one of the elite few who played FFXI, it's not like it was widely popular and played for over a decade or anything.
>>319903305
Also can't forget about how incredibly dull and almost pointless dungeons were.
The game has such deep-seated faults in its gameplay, design, and progression that if they wish to actually produce a good, long lasting, well received game, they will HAVE TO delay release until at least mid 2017 and work their asses off that entire time. It really is that flawed.
I had high hopes for this game but at this rate I know it's going to be a failure, in both the monetary sense and to me personally.
>>319903574
aww that's unfortunate, seemed like a decent concept.
>>319903469
>wildstar was so close
>fucked it up in beta
>almost fixed it with F2P
THEYRE SO FUCKING CLOSE.
JUST ADD MORE CASUAL CONTENT AND OPTIMIZE THE GAME YOU FUCKERS.
YOUR CORE GAME IS SO WELL DONE, AND EVERYTHING AROUND IT IS ASS.
When are we going to have MMOs with the quality of Ultima, Tibia or Ragnarok?
I want to explore the whole world, not teleport myself from one small area to another.
>>319903574
Damn shame. Also, reading that is hurting my fucking eyes.
>>319903759
Pretty much the only redeeming feature right now is how cute it is. They basically have to take every single central aspect of the game back to the drawing board, this game is beyond fucked.
>>319903656
>If the exp from individual mobs is shit, then yes, it is. I don't understand how you are misunderstanding this.
That's some backwards logic, kid.
>guys, this is a GRINDING GAME and they nerfed AOE in a GRINDING GAME!!!
>You don't need aoe in a grinding game anon.
>w-well you do if i-individual xp is b-bad
>it's not like FF XI was wildly popular
If it was so popular then why didn't you play it?
>>319903780
I agree. The horribly optimized engine, poorly done starter zones that failed to introduce the world and the slightly alienating art style were the things that killed the game at launch. It still had and has more potential than any other MMORPG that has come out during the last five years or so.
The game felt like it was rushed out of the gates too soon.
Not enough pantsu shots.
not a lot, its a pretty good game desubut all i wanted was vanilla ragnarok with a proper netcode
>>319901742
maplestory is 1-100 in a few hours nowadays
>>319904225
Potential means shit when you have an incompetent dev team. Every game has limitless potential if it weren't for the restrictions of the developers.
>>319904225
Met a Carbine employee at PAX.
He hinted that the game wasn't supposed to hit until 2015, but NCsoft wanted something out before WoD came out because they thought WoD would steal MMO business.
Little did they know WoD would crash and burn pretty hard.
We might have lived in a very Wildstar centric MMO world if NCsoft hadn't rushed it out the door almost 9 months in advance.
>>319904387
honestly considering the cap is 250 that's not that bad. The second you hit 140 or so it becomes very much like the old school.
>>319904136
>the xp from grind is shit and the game has quests that are scattered around
Mate, look, I'm sorry that I forgot to either preface "grind" with individual here, or that I forgot to place "aoe" before "grind" down below to make it clearer what I was talking about. It was my fault and I could have fully avoided setting off your autism by adding in one simple word.
Also, since you seem to care so much, I did play FFXI 10 years ago but dropped it because I had no friends. Cute game though.
>>319904728
>b-b-but this is what I really meant!
Sure thing, kid.
>friend recommend me to play ToS
>start playing up to level 25
>game is kind of fucking boring
>no anon, the game really get fun when you hit level 100!
>uninstall
Normies will say
>muh grind
>muh repetitive quests
>muh linearity
Real people will say
>playing this shit, LOL
>>319904468
I guess the thing about "potential" and wildstar is that the good part of the game is actually there.
The dungeons, the raids, pretty much anything thats instanced is fucking great in Wildstar. The movement is second only to WoW, and the combats use of the movement systems is incredible.
The fact that an MMO was willing to fuck you if you were bad was nice, the fact that every single boss from the FIRST DUNGEON was pushing your WHOLE GROUP to excel was awesome.
Basically you couldn't be a fuckup, and you also had to actually be good at video games and reaction time.
Reminds me of basically a Western Vindictus, amazing core systems and design hidden behind an obtuse outer layer and a boring as fuck downtime grind.
>>319905358
RIP Vindictus. We'll never be able to go back to the time before enhancing and enchanting ruined the game.
>>319903469
>>319903642
Devs are afraid of making their overbudget game unappealing to casuals and end up flopping
Hopefully there's a new trend of making relatively lowbudget games focused on small niche markets, they won't profit as much as the WoW and its 'killers', but at least the devs are free to make their thing (see Albion Online)
>>319905358
what the fuck
>>319896710
they said it'd be like RO
>>319905717
I'm leaving to vegas so might as well post cropped wildstar porn right.
Have a good weekend guys.
>>319904945
You friend lied to you, too. Post-100 is still the same shit, you just have a flashier class or two to play with.
>>319905358
I disagree. Carbine accomplished something special with Wildstar: they managed to create combat and encounters that look extremely fun both on paper and when you watch someone else play it, but is boring as fuck to actually do. Granted, I only did normal and veteran dungeons and never raided. But encounters are extremely boring once you realize that the aoes are just designed to be sensually overloading as to seem intense and frantic but are actually really easy to avoid.
And then I went back once it went f2p and it was the same thing. Everything was boring. Not to mention there was almost no real updates to the game since I had stopped playing a year prior
>>319896710
Unbalanced as fuck.
Grind curve is exponential starting at low levels.
Not sandbox like RO almost was.
Every area has the same enemy 'types' with melee dps, tank, and mage like clockwork.
Quests are even more boring shit than WoW.
Basically, the only redeeming thing about it is nostalgia and the art.
>>319903574
>turned to shit because of cash shop
Same thing will happen to ToS if the current kcbt shows us anything
>>319896710
It plays like shit.
>>319899810
See
>>319899827
A few months is NOT enough time to fix everything that is wrong with this game. A ton of complaints from the first CB STILL aren't fixed and Koreans are bitching about them as well.
I expect this game to either get delayed or tank.
>>319905358
I'd be playing WS right now if the PvP server wasnt dead.
I hope they bring back server X-fers
>>319896710
Cons:
>too linear
Even if it splits in two starting cities, it'll still be linear as fuck. Even if maps are not linearly distributed in the map, they still form long chains, and leveling inside them is linear and predictable too.
>too quest reliant
With the constant paranoia of having missed a quest somewhere. Even then you still hit grind walls.
>not enough enemy variety
All dumb and slow. They never hit you if you just run and jump, they never pose any real danger, unless you are mobbing large groups of mobs 10 levels above you. Not nearly enough the variety RO mobs had.
>community
Dumb neet weebs erping everywhere. What's worse is they are the only decent players too. Terrible.
Pros:
>beautiful artstyle and soundtrack
Really sugoi desu, by far the strongest point.
>decent lore
At least above average. Even if the plot is generic, the mythology is nice.
>combat is fun, class variety
Just have to find a class you really click with. Even if some classes are useless and others overpowered, there's something for everyone and that's awesome.
>decent rpg core
Stats, Skills, Attributes, Collections, Crafting, Gear Refinement, Gems, Cards. I was impressed.
>>319905604
>Devs are afraid of making their overbudget game unappealing to casuals and end up flopping
Yeah, that is the core issue. MMORPG's are expensive as fuck to produce and maintain. Even if the devs would like to make better design decisions, there is probably some guy with a suit staring at statistics and forcing them to cut corners.
>>319897472
You realize this game is a spiritual sequel to ragnarok don't you? you dumb fuck
>>319901095
>>319900738
I'm 25 now and these songs still nearly bring a tear to my eye.
I really miss being a kid and exploring RO for the first time with a small guild and friends.
I tried the ToS beta 2 and had NONE of the same majestic feeling that I did in youth.
Maybe I'm getting too old...
>>319906259
You are getting old, but MMOs these days don't foster the same community and play style that older ones did, because MMOs now are all solo questing shitfests
>>319904225
>>319903780
Can anyone explain to me why so many people circlejerk Wildstar? I only remember /v/ bitching about it because of the art style change and later the F2P move.
It always looked to me like a generic MMO except it had an FPS style of gameplay.
>>319906193
Stats are fucked
They need to fix STR INT AND CON
Everyone can just go Full DEX and INT is almost worthless for mages if they don't have mutli hit skills
>>319906836
In fairness, full DEX does apparently fall off, but it's pretty easy to just restat after 200 and put into STR instead.
>>319906686
People like the shitty artstyle. W*S was and is a shitty game. Carbine's shitty updates after release shows that more dev time wouldn't have helped much. A Realm Reborn was launched unfinished as well but the devs patched the rest of the game in over the course of the first year of service.
>>319896710
Everyone looks like they have fetal alcohol syndrome
>>319907147
i'll choose to believe that her thighs are actually that thick and it's not just the armor
>>319907147
Good thing I'm from Kentucky.
>>319898316
>>319898587
Pleaase enlighten us. give an example of a kMMO with a good grind. iRO clearly wasn't any better with it's slow ass 1x rates. You nigglets knew what you were getting into. stop trying to act coy now!
>>319907804
>RO clearly wasn't any better with it's slow ass 1x rates
>playing official RO
>not playing OT servers
>>319906543
I guess I am getting old and can't enjoy things as I did before anymore. Growing up fucking sucks since the world doesn't amaze you as much as it did.
I remember hanging out for DAYS in this area with my guild, making it our HQ, just chatting to each other. Some days we wouldn't even go into dungeons or farm anything, just log in and talk for fun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcqhSMT0jZk
>>319906836
tfw i told every fucking nigger in this game that full STR was better than full DEX and they didnt believe me and went with the le plebit FULLPROOF STATS
>>319901095
>>319900198
>>319900782
Come on, the OST in ToS is great too. I could really grow attached to it, just like RO.
>comfy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSsBda4Sz7g
>chill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kokLX2frco
>funky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRr_fBzz4VE
>electronic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKa5wT0yIs4
>adventure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dErx0oIw5c
>folklore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=monMP6lPszY
>>319908552
Stop telling them good information. I want to laugh more at the people who fell for the "archer c3 full spr is FUTUREPROOF" trick.
>yfw that's why everyone was saying that Archer sucks
>>319908552
Full STR is only better because you cannot dodge magic attacks and every hard hitting enemy in late game uses magic attacks
>>319905358
Dat brass.
>>319896710
Nothing, its a "good" game, just not what everyone was expecting.
Still waiting for maplestory 2.
>>319907804
>Still thinking that grind = how slow you lvl up.
Let me guess, it was wow your first mmo?
>Grind that is somehow slower than 1x iRO in the modern age turning away 99% of potential players except for legitimate neets and locking away half the games content for people who don't want to devote literal years to one character in a game
>Skills for the AI and players have huge animation delays, movement delays, and unnecessarily long cooldowns
>Bosses are still insultingly easy except for those with screenwide nukes
>Almost all enemies walk slow, attack slow, and generally have a distinct lack of skills making grinding boring and mobbing impractical on most maps
>The secret classes will either be rewarded arbitrarily/randomly or will be datamined immediately and made pointless
These are all real concerns that are dealbreaking. I'm not asking for RO 2.0, but you sure as fuck shouldn't advertise it as such and then make something worse.
>>319906236
So, doesn't mean shit if it's inferior you mongolian wood carver.
